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WorldOctober 4, 2024

They were arguing about abortion.

DAVID GOLDMAN, Associated Press
Lesley Dzik, left, and her husband, Matt, embrace each other while praying with Richard Wellbank at The Vineyard Church in Urbana, Ill., Sunday, Sept. 22, 2024. Lesley, a Republican, and Matt, a Democrat, have navigated issues common to so many marriages, from parenting to money. But politics? That's complicated. (AP Photo/David Goldman)
Lesley Dzik, left, and her husband, Matt, embrace each other while praying with Richard Wellbank at The Vineyard Church in Urbana, Ill., Sunday, Sept. 22, 2024. Lesley, a Republican, and Matt, a Democrat, have navigated issues common to so many marriages, from parenting to money. But politics? That's complicated. (AP Photo/David Goldman)ASSOCIATED PRESS
Matt Dzik, left, and his wife Lesley, discuss their plans for the day at their kitchen table in Champaign, Ill., Saturday, Sept. 21, 2024. The couple's political differences seem to worsen before presidential elections. At times, things get so heated, they don't speak for days. (AP Photo/David Goldman)
Matt Dzik, left, and his wife Lesley, discuss their plans for the day at their kitchen table in Champaign, Ill., Saturday, Sept. 21, 2024. The couple's political differences seem to worsen before presidential elections. At times, things get so heated, they don't speak for days. (AP Photo/David Goldman)ASSOCIATED PRESS
A chart and clothespins with their names hangs on the refrigerator of Lesley and Matt Dzik as a communication tool to help express their feelings, in Champaign, Ill., Saturday, Sept. 21, 2024. (AP Photo/David Goldman)
A chart and clothespins with their names hangs on the refrigerator of Lesley and Matt Dzik as a communication tool to help express their feelings, in Champaign, Ill., Saturday, Sept. 21, 2024. (AP Photo/David Goldman)ASSOCIATED PRESS
Matt Dzik, right, drops his wife, Lesley, off at work at the engineering library at the University of Illinois in Urbana, Ill., Sunday, Sept. 22, 2024. (AP Photo/David Goldman)
Matt Dzik, right, drops his wife, Lesley, off at work at the engineering library at the University of Illinois in Urbana, Ill., Sunday, Sept. 22, 2024. (AP Photo/David Goldman)ASSOCIATED PRESS
An American flag flies outside the home Matt Dzik shares with his wife, Lesley, in Champaign, Ill., Saturday, Sept. 21, 2024. "The country is flawed but it's a national symbol that transcends all our differences," said Matt. (AP Photo/David Goldman)
An American flag flies outside the home Matt Dzik shares with his wife, Lesley, in Champaign, Ill., Saturday, Sept. 21, 2024. "The country is flawed but it's a national symbol that transcends all our differences," said Matt. (AP Photo/David Goldman)ASSOCIATED PRESS
Lesley Dzik, left, helps her husband, Matt, place a sheet of plywood at a renovation job he's doing for a fellow church member in Urbana, Ill., Saturday, Sept. 21, 2024. Acts of kindness bring them together and Matt often does handy-man jobs to help people who can't afford professionals. (AP Photo/David Goldman)
Lesley Dzik, left, helps her husband, Matt, place a sheet of plywood at a renovation job he's doing for a fellow church member in Urbana, Ill., Saturday, Sept. 21, 2024. Acts of kindness bring them together and Matt often does handy-man jobs to help people who can't afford professionals. (AP Photo/David Goldman)ASSOCIATED PRESS
Lesley, left, and Matt Dzik, watch a seminary studies presentation by Lesley's son on a laptop in their home in Champaign, Ill., Friday, Sept. 20, 2024. When they started dating, all it took was the sight of Democratic lawn signs outside Matt's house ahead of the 2020 election to make Lesley question if their relationship could work. (AP Photo/David Goldman)
Lesley, left, and Matt Dzik, watch a seminary studies presentation by Lesley's son on a laptop in their home in Champaign, Ill., Friday, Sept. 20, 2024. When they started dating, all it took was the sight of Democratic lawn signs outside Matt's house ahead of the 2020 election to make Lesley question if their relationship could work. (AP Photo/David Goldman)ASSOCIATED PRESS
Lesley Dzik pulls up an online workshop by Braver Angels, a non-profit that helps people bridge the political divide, to show her husband, Matt, at their home in Champaign, Ill., Sunday, Sept. 22, 2024. At Braver Angel workshops they've learned some techniques to keep political talk civil. Speak to understand, one rule says, don't speak to win. (AP Photo/David Goldman)
Lesley Dzik pulls up an online workshop by Braver Angels, a non-profit that helps people bridge the political divide, to show her husband, Matt, at their home in Champaign, Ill., Sunday, Sept. 22, 2024. At Braver Angel workshops they've learned some techniques to keep political talk civil. Speak to understand, one rule says, don't speak to win. (AP Photo/David Goldman)ASSOCIATED PRESS
Attendees from across the political spectrum listen to a Braver Angels lecture on depolarization at the Rogers Free Library in Bristol, R.I., Thursday, Sept. 12, 2024. The non-profit organization holds workshops and mock debates across the country to help opposing political viewpoints communicate and understand each other's positions. (AP Photo/David Goldman)
Attendees from across the political spectrum listen to a Braver Angels lecture on depolarization at the Rogers Free Library in Bristol, R.I., Thursday, Sept. 12, 2024. The non-profit organization holds workshops and mock debates across the country to help opposing political viewpoints communicate and understand each other's positions. (AP Photo/David Goldman)ASSOCIATED PRESS
Husband and wife, Lesley, left, and Matt Dzik, argue about abortion as they drive through Champaign County, Ill., Saturday, Sept. 21, 2024. Sometimes for the Dziks knowing when to end the conversation is more important than winning it. “He’s not good at stopping but I’m getting better at walking away,” said Lesley. (AP Photo/David Goldman)
Husband and wife, Lesley, left, and Matt Dzik, argue about abortion as they drive through Champaign County, Ill., Saturday, Sept. 21, 2024. Sometimes for the Dziks knowing when to end the conversation is more important than winning it. “He’s not good at stopping but I’m getting better at walking away,” said Lesley. (AP Photo/David Goldman)ASSOCIATED PRESS
Matt, left, and Lesley Dzik transport Richard Wellbank to services at The Vineyard Church in Urbana, Ill., Sunday, Sept. 22, 2024. The couple have both been caregivers to Wellbank who has cerebral palsy and whom they bring to church on occasion from his assisted living facility. (AP Photo/David Goldman)
Matt, left, and Lesley Dzik transport Richard Wellbank to services at The Vineyard Church in Urbana, Ill., Sunday, Sept. 22, 2024. The couple have both been caregivers to Wellbank who has cerebral palsy and whom they bring to church on occasion from his assisted living facility. (AP Photo/David Goldman)ASSOCIATED PRESS
Lesley, right, and Matt Dzik, hold hands as they pray after reading the Bible, Sunday, Sept. 22, 2024, at their home in Champaign, Ill. The couple attend church regularly and when they pray, they hold each other. (AP Photo/David Goldman)
Lesley, right, and Matt Dzik, hold hands as they pray after reading the Bible, Sunday, Sept. 22, 2024, at their home in Champaign, Ill. The couple attend church regularly and when they pray, they hold each other. (AP Photo/David Goldman)ASSOCIATED PRESS
Matt, left, and Lesley Dzik, talk during intermission in the lobby of The Station Theatre while volunteering as ushers during a performance of "POTUS: Or, Behind Every Great Dumbass Are Seven Women Trying to Keep Him Alive," in Urbana, Ill., Saturday, Sept. 21, 2024. (AP Photo/David Goldman)
Matt, left, and Lesley Dzik, talk during intermission in the lobby of The Station Theatre while volunteering as ushers during a performance of "POTUS: Or, Behind Every Great Dumbass Are Seven Women Trying to Keep Him Alive," in Urbana, Ill., Saturday, Sept. 21, 2024. (AP Photo/David Goldman)ASSOCIATED PRESS
Matt Dzik talks to his son on the phone outside The Station Theatre while volunteering as an usher during a performance in Urbana, Ill., Saturday, Sept. 21, 2024. Matt and his wife, Lesley, who enjoy going to concerts and shows, volunteer together at the local theater so they can see the productions for free. (AP Photo/David Goldman)
Matt Dzik talks to his son on the phone outside The Station Theatre while volunteering as an usher during a performance in Urbana, Ill., Saturday, Sept. 21, 2024. Matt and his wife, Lesley, who enjoy going to concerts and shows, volunteer together at the local theater so they can see the productions for free. (AP Photo/David Goldman)ASSOCIATED PRESS
A sign encouraging voting sits behind Lesley Dzik, left, and her husband, Matt, in the lobby of The Station Theatre as they volunteer as ushers during a performance of "POTUS: Or, Behind Every Great Dumbass Are Seven Women Trying to Keep Him Alive," in Urbana, Ill., Saturday, Sept. 21, 2024. (AP Photo/David Goldman)
A sign encouraging voting sits behind Lesley Dzik, left, and her husband, Matt, in the lobby of The Station Theatre as they volunteer as ushers during a performance of "POTUS: Or, Behind Every Great Dumbass Are Seven Women Trying to Keep Him Alive," in Urbana, Ill., Saturday, Sept. 21, 2024. (AP Photo/David Goldman)ASSOCIATED PRESS
Lesley, left, and Matt Dzik, pose for a portrait in Urbana, Ill., Sunday, Sept. 22, 2024. Lesley, a Republican, and Matt, a Democrat, have navigated issues common to so many marriages, from parenting to money. But politics? That's complicated. But love overcomes political differences for this couple. (AP Photo/David Goldman)
Lesley, left, and Matt Dzik, pose for a portrait in Urbana, Ill., Sunday, Sept. 22, 2024. Lesley, a Republican, and Matt, a Democrat, have navigated issues common to so many marriages, from parenting to money. But politics? That's complicated. But love overcomes political differences for this couple. (AP Photo/David Goldman)ASSOCIATED PRESS
Lesley Dzik looks out her kitchen window, in Champaign, Ill., Saturday, Sept. 21, 2024. Lesley is deeply Christian. Matt, her husband sees himself as more spiritual than religious. "I get worried with Matt because I believe the Bible is truth and Matt is iffy about that," she said. "I wonder what I got myself into." (AP Photo/David Goldman)
Lesley Dzik looks out her kitchen window, in Champaign, Ill., Saturday, Sept. 21, 2024. Lesley is deeply Christian. Matt, her husband sees himself as more spiritual than religious. "I get worried with Matt because I believe the Bible is truth and Matt is iffy about that," she said. "I wonder what I got myself into." (AP Photo/David Goldman)ASSOCIATED PRESS
Lesley, left, and Matt Dzik, stand in their backyard in Champaign, Ill., Friday, Sept. 20, 2024. When they started dating, all it took was the sight of Democratic lawn signs outside his house ahead of the 2020 election to make her question if their relationship could work. (AP Photo/David Goldman)
Lesley, left, and Matt Dzik, stand in their backyard in Champaign, Ill., Friday, Sept. 20, 2024. When they started dating, all it took was the sight of Democratic lawn signs outside his house ahead of the 2020 election to make her question if their relationship could work. (AP Photo/David Goldman)ASSOCIATED PRESS
A message decorates the wall behind Lesley, left, and Matt Dzik, as they read the Bible at their home in Champaign, Ill., Sunday, Sept. 22, 2024. When they came across Braver Angels, a nonprofit that helps people bridge the political divide, they found a community there that is both red and blue. "It gave me enough hope," said Lesley. "I felt safe, I'm not alone." (AP Photo/David Goldman)
A message decorates the wall behind Lesley, left, and Matt Dzik, as they read the Bible at their home in Champaign, Ill., Sunday, Sept. 22, 2024. When they came across Braver Angels, a nonprofit that helps people bridge the political divide, they found a community there that is both red and blue. "It gave me enough hope," said Lesley. "I felt safe, I'm not alone." (AP Photo/David Goldman)ASSOCIATED PRESS
Matt Dzik, right, embraces his wife, Lesley, as he greets her after waking up in Champaign, Ill., Saturday, Sept. 21, 2024. Their need for one another is too great to avoid the discomforts of their many disagreements. "We share the same heart," said Lesley. "I love looking in her eyes and seeing her smile," said Matt. "Why would I want to lose that? (AP Photo/David Goldman)
Matt Dzik, right, embraces his wife, Lesley, as he greets her after waking up in Champaign, Ill., Saturday, Sept. 21, 2024. Their need for one another is too great to avoid the discomforts of their many disagreements. "We share the same heart," said Lesley. "I love looking in her eyes and seeing her smile," said Matt. "Why would I want to lose that? (AP Photo/David Goldman)ASSOCIATED PRESS

They were arguing about abortion.

It was on Interstate 74, driving past the endless cornfields of rural Illinois, when Lesley Dzik realized she’d been raising her voice at her husband, Matt. She stopped, and suggested they drop the topic. He agreed, and quiet settled into the cabin of the pickup truck.

“I love you,” they told each other, and the hands that had been gesturing to articulate their opposing views collapsed into each other on the center console.

The Dziks have navigated issues common to so many marriages, from parenting to money.

But politics? That’s complicated.

Lesley, 56, is a Republican. Matt, 68, is a Democrat. She is anti-abortion. Matt believes women should have the choice. She refused to be vaccinated during the pandemic. He got the shots.

When they started dating, all it took was the sight of Democratic lawn signs outside his house ahead of the 2020 election to make her question if their relationship could work.

But they both wanted it to work. Lesley read books by other politically divided couples for inspiration and eventually came across Braver Angels, a nonprofit started by a therapist after former President Donald Trump’s 2016 election to help people bridge the political divide. They found a community there that is both red and blue.

“It gave me enough hope,” said Lesley. “I felt safe, I’m not alone.”

They seem, in so many ways, the ideal couple. Matt, who is retired, routinely brings flowers home for her. She helps him with handy-man jobs he does for people who can’t afford professionals. He drives her to the library at the University of Illinois where she works. They volunteer together at a local theater so they can see shows for free.

Lesley is deeply Christian. Matt, an Army veteran, was raised Catholic, but now sees himself as more spiritual than religious.

“I get worried with Matt because I believe the Bible is truth and Matt is iffy about that,” she said. “I wonder what I got myself into.”

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But they attend church regularly and when they pray, they hold each other.

Acts of kindness bring them together, whether helping a man who uses a wheelchair get to church or caring for a nonverbal boy so his single mother can work. But their political differences seem to worsen before presidential elections.

At times, things get so heated, they don’t speak for days.

A suggestion from their therapist that has helped them navigate their insecurities hangs on the refrigerator door. “Can I give you a hug?” it reads. “If no, then say, ‘I love you. You don’t suck. I’ll come back in ten minutes.’”

At Braver Angel workshops they’ve learned some techniques to keep political talk civil. Speak to understand, one rule says, don’t speak to win.

Their need for one another is too great to avoid the discomforts of their many disagreements.

“We share the same heart,” said Lesley.

“I love looking in her eyes and seeing her smile,” said Matt. “Why would I want to lose that?

They’ve found things they can agree on, like putting up a flagpole in their front yard and flying the American flag.

“It’s much more inspiring than any yard sign will ever be for me," she said. "It’s more enduring.”

___

The Associated Press receives support from several private foundations to enhance its explanatory coverage of elections and democracy. See more about AP’s democracy initiative here. The AP is solely responsible for all content.

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