None of the Above
Rick Vandeven - Libertarian For US Representative (MO-8)

Libertarians: None of the Above

Posted Sunday, June 24, 2012, at 12:50 PM


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  • ddshea,

    While I and plenty of other members of the LP lean anarchist, and believe that the nation-state experiment is a complete failure that has had terrible consequencs for the human race and the health of our planet, there are also plenty of LP'ers who believe that smaller government is a lofty goal. We have legendary philosophical discussions, sometimes nasty, but ultimately we agree that getting government out of the way to allow people to live their lives in peace is ideal. Our difference of opinion is what society should look like when that goal is accomplished.

    The leviathan, one-size-fits-all, top down vertically structured pyramidial central government would not exist in a stateless society. I believe that forcing people to live under the State is the definition of utopia. People should be free to choose whatever form of social structure they want to live in; consent of the governed.

    -- Posted by Rick Vandeven on Mon, Jun 25, 2012, at 5:45 AM
  • A stateless society means "no rulers", not "no rules".

    Every child, with rare exception, is born with an innate sense of right and wrong. Basically it all boils down to one rule "do not trespass". In order to follow that one simple rule one has to understand the concept of property. As a society, we have forgotten what property is. When one realizes what property is then one also realizes that most of the millions of laws in this country exist to perpetuate our common enemy: the State.

    -- Posted by Rick Vandeven on Mon, Jun 25, 2012, at 11:32 AM
  • Nil,

    This is Rick BTW. I have two handles on here.

    I think the human race is slowly advancing towards the recognition of the individual as the sovereign as opposed to the sovereign State. All of the best things in my life have nothing to do with the State. More and more people are becoming aware that this holds true in their lives also. By no means are we even a blip on the radar, but at least we are all aware of the existence of each other.

    The mechanism for the prevention of violence against me exists now - self defense. I have zero faith in the agents that are employed by the State to supposedly protect me. The abuse of power by the police forces against the citizenry in this country occurs on a daily basis.

    Thanks for responding. I would rather talk philosophy than policy anyday. I might be off base, but the fact that you and ddshea are more interested in a stateless society than the central government is a good sign. I encourage you to visit the C4SS website link. Those guys are the teachers. Like i said, I am still a student.

    -- Posted by Lumpy on Mon, Jun 25, 2012, at 8:30 PM
  • ddshea,

    There is a saying that I always admired made by Randolph Bourne - War is the health of the state.

    States engage in war. Only the strongest of states invade other states. The people don't want war. They can be forced or duped into participating in the states' wars, but it is the people that suffer the consequences of war, never the State. The State always grows stronger as a result of war, which is why states engage in war.

    Comparing the society in Iraq with American society is not a good comparision. We produce goods and services for trade. The market is the key to peace and prosperity, not a strong central government.

    Most of us get along with each other, and are content carrying on the business of producing and trading. Yes, there are criminals in society who trespass against us. However, thanks to the myriad of laws and regulations perpetrated by the State, and enforced on society through the police, we are all criminals living on borrowed time. It is estimated that the average American commits three felonies a day unknowingly.

    I know that the original question as to what a stateless society would look like has not been answered. That is because it cannot be answered. All I can refer to is the failure of strong central governments. Everything from tyranny to communism to democracy has been tried. All have failed.

    -- Posted by Rick Vandeven on Tue, Jun 26, 2012, at 4:39 PM