Times tough at Notre Dame, Penn St.

Notre Dame, 0-3. Bob Davie cringes when he says it.

Penn State, 0-3. Joe Paterno smiles halfheartedly and says he feels good about his team "if you can feel good about getting licked."

Life is miserable at two of college football's most passionate places, the Golden Dome and Happy Valley. Two schools that subscribe to winning is everything, are losing at record rates.

Fans want Davie fired, even though he signed a five-year contract extension after leading the Irish to the Fiesta Bowl last year. So what, they say. That was then.

The atmosphere isn't quite so charged at Penn State, where 74-year-old JoePa is still very much revered. However, the whispers grow louder with each loss.

This isn't supposed to happen at schools that are among the top five in all-time wins -- the Irish with 776 and the Nittany Lions with 739.

--Notre Dame's winless start is its worst in 115 years of Irish football. "It stings to hear that, but all that matters is how it ends," Davie said. The Irish play Pittsburgh at home Saturday.

--The Lions are right behind in futility. A loss next Saturday against No. 15 Michigan would make it Penn State's worst start in its 115 years, too. "We're tentative, making mistakes," Paterno said. "We gotta grow up a little bit."

An added element at Penn State is Paterno's quest to break Bear Bryant's major college mark of 323 career wins. He's stuck on 322. The way the season is going, Florida State coach Bobby Bowden, now with 318 wins, may pass Bryant first.

After Saturday's 24-18 loss at Iowa, Paterno was asked about the record. He sighed, stood up and walked out without saying a word. End of news conference.

While Notre Dame's inability to win is a surprise after last year's 9-2 regular-season, Penn State's isn't. Since being ranked No. 2 and losing to Minnesota late in the '99 season, the Lions have won just five of 16 regular-season games.

Nerves are frayed at campuses used to playing for the highest stakes. Notre Dame has won eight AP national titles, the last in 1988; Penn State has two, the most recent in 1986.

Hours after Texas A&M beat the Irish 24-3 in College Station, Texas, reaction came pouring out of South Bend. A lot of it went like this:

"I can't wait until the season is over and he is gone," Pete Montenaro, a sophomore from Rochester, N.Y., said. "I don't see how it's possible he'd still be here at the end of the season. I think it's obvious Bob Davie doesn't belong at Notre Dame."

What is obvious is neither team can generate much enthusiasm, not to mention offense, and opponents are just plain faster, quicker and stronger. Penn State has 31 points in three games; Notre Dame has 23. Also, both schools are used to signing cream of the crop recruits, and that's not happening, either.

Florida coach Steve Spurrier, a friend of Paterno's, has noticed the change at Penn State.

"They don't seem to have the same team speed and aggressiveness they used to have there," Spurrier said. "He's coaching as hard as he's ever coached. Sometimes when your recruiting slips a bit, things happen."