Senators grill Gonzales over government's spying program

~ The attorney general was questioned for 3 1/2 hours.

WASHINGTON -- Senators still suspicious of the government's domestic spying program grilled Attorney General Alberto Gonzales Thursday over whether new oversight by a secret court will help protect peoples' privacy rights.

Gonzales offered few answers, maintaining during 3 1/2 hours of sharp rebukes that disclosing details of the program would expose sensitive security information.

His resistance was underscored by a letter from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court's presiding judge, offering to detail some of its new authority with lawmakers if allowed to by the Bush administration.

"Are you saying that you might object to the court giving us a decision that you publicly announced?" Senate Judiciary chairman Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., asked. "Are we a little Alice in Wonderland here?"

Gonzales responded: "There is going to be information about operational details about how we're doing this that we want to keep confidential."

His appearance in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee came a day after the administration announced it would allow judicial review of the spying program that President Bush secretly authorized after the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks. Until last week, the National Security Agency conducted domestic surveillance of people suspected of links to al-Qaida without court warrants.

Tool for future presidents

Bush on Thursday denied there had been any change in the program, other than to receive a court's blessing of it.

"The courts yesterday said I did have the authority," the president said in an interview with Tribune Broadcasting. "That's important. And the reason it's important that they verify the legalities of the program is it means it's going to extend, make it extend beyond my presidency. This is a really important tool for future presidents to have."

He added: "Nothing has changed in the program except the court has said we've analyzed it and it's a legitimate way to protect the country."

In hearings on both sides of Capitol Hill, lawmakers said they welcomed the reversal by the Bush administration, which had previously opposed review by the so-called FISA Court. But they wanted to know more about how judges might consider evidence when approving government requests to monitor phone calls and e-mails between the United States and abroad.

"I'd like to know if there's an intention to do this on an individual basis, or at least on a case-by-case basis where five, six, 10, 20, 100 individuals are involved, or is it broader brush than that?" said Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y. "Because if it's a very broad brush approval and again, because it's secret we have no way of knowing, it doesn't do much good."

"They meet the legal requirements under FISA," Gonzales said.

"I think we have to assume these are broad program warrants, barring some comment from you," Schumer responded. He added: "If it's a broad program warrant, it really isn't very satisfying in terms of protection that the Constitution requires."

Gonzales later added that the warrants go "above and beyond what we normally find in a FISA order to ensure that any information that shouldn't be collected is destroyed in an appropriate way."

Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa., said it remains unclear whether the FISA court has a blanket authority to approve all eavesdropping requests -- even though Justice Department attorneys have assured him warrants would target individuals. "From their description to me, I think we need to know more on the oversight process," he said.

Specter also needled Gonzales on why the spying program was only last week put under judicial review after it was revealed a little over a year ago. He noted that Republicans lost control of Congress in elections last fall that were widely seen as a repudiation of administration policy.

"The heavy criticism the president took on the program was very harmful in the political process, and for the reputation of the country," Specter said.

Since assuming oversight authority, by a Jan. 10 order, the FISA court already has approved at least one surveillance warrant targeting a person suspected of having ties to al-Qaida or an associated terror group.

In a letter released at the Senate hearing, FISA Court Presiding Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly, said she has no objection to giving lawmakers copies of orders and opinions relating to the secret panel's oversight of the spy program.

"However, the court's practice is to refer any requests for classified information to the Department of Justice. In this instance, the documents that are responsive to your request contain classified information and, therefore, I would ask you to discuss the matter with the attorney general or his representatives," Kollar-Kotelly wrote in the Jan. 17 letter.

"If allowed, the Court will, of course, cooperate with the agreement," she wrote.

Both Gonzales and National Intelligence Director John Negroponte, testifying separately before the House Intelligence Committee, said it was uncertain whether the court orders and details about the program will be disclosed. Negroponte said there may be separation of powers issues involved in turning over information to Congress about the program.

Officials would not say whether case-by-case basis decisions on surveillance of Americans are now made by FISA judges or by NSA officials.

Last August, a federal judge in Detroit declared the spying program unconstitutional, saying it violated the rights to free speech and privacy and the separation of powers. The Justice Department launched an appeal of that decision, but now is considering whether to ask a three-judge panel of the Cincinnati-based appellate court to dismiss the case.

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On the Net:

Justice Department: http://www.usdoj.gov/

Senate Judiciary Committee: http://judiciary.senate.gov/