Posted by Old John on Sat, Jan 24, 2015, at 8:13 PM:
It's a pretty familiar term, but what does it mean?
To some of our ancestors the fulfillment of the American dream was to find success in procuring freedoms concerning religion, and opportunities of wealth.
I think the lasting theme depicting the American Dream was to leave children with even better chances of that achievement.
History tells us we as a nation have accomplished that.
Has the meaning of the American Dream been redefined a bit over the years? Maybe so.
A neighbor was blessed in that his parents left him with their work ethic and love of family.
He is living his American Dream, able to not only help his children but recently able to buy an old tractor for his nearly teenage grandsons to restore under his guidance this summer.
What's your American Dream and does it line up with the younger generation's American Dream?
Replies (110)
Old John,
I would say that my American Dream is to see this country return to the values we were accustomed to as I grew up. There should be a way to live in today's world with all of it's conveniences and wonders and still retain our self pride and morals.
This I hope for my children and grandchildren. I would also like to leave what my wife and I have worked a lifetime for to my children and grandchildren without having to share it with government. Government has already taxed it once and that is enough. Currently most do not have enough to be concerned with government and inheritance taxes, but that can change in a heartbeat in time.
I wish the same as I dream for myself for my friends and neighbors.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Sat, Jan 24, 2015, at 9:25 PM
Wheels, Values is another term getting harder to define.
With recent emphasis on income equality and the racial theme of the left that continues to divide America on the basis that we are unequal and some need help due to inherent inferiority, well I wonder.
-- Posted by Old John on Sat, Jan 24, 2015, at 9:41 PM
Old John,
I am too far along in life to buy into the Leftist views on life. They may believe what they dam well want to and I will continue believing in the values my parents taught me as I grew up.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Sat, Jan 24, 2015, at 10:13 PM
The American dream to me, is that all people are equally free to lead a happy and successful life.
Successful is the word that most of us will disagree on. Some associate success with wealth, I associate it with content.
-- Posted by Reasoning on Sun, Jan 25, 2015, at 8:03 AM
Posted by Reasoning on Sun, Jan 25, 2015, at 8:03 AM
All people are equally free. And it's been that way for a very long time.
-- Posted by BonScott on Sun, Jan 25, 2015, at 8:09 AM
All people are equally free. And it's been that way for a very long time.
-- Posted by BonScott on Sun, Jan 25, 2015, at 8:09 AM
Agree.
Some will not make the most of their opportunities and there are in the overall scheme of things, those few that cannot due to mental or physical disabilities.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Sun, Jan 25, 2015, at 8:27 AM
All people are equally free. And it's been that way for a very long time.
-- Posted by BonScott on Sun, Jan 25, 2015, at 8:09 AM
No one is "equally" free. We are all products of the environment in which we are raised.
I have spent my life judging the distance between American reality and the American dream.
Bruce Springsteen
-- Posted by Reasoning on Sun, Jan 25, 2015, at 8:42 AM
I should have put Springsteen's quote in "".
-- Posted by Reasoning on Sun, Jan 25, 2015, at 8:43 AM
We are all products of the environment in which we are raised. I have spent my life judging the distance between American reality and the American dream. -- Posted by Reasoning on Sun, Jan 25, 2015, at 8:42 AM
I believe that "environment" and "distance" exists in ones head. Many immigrants from India, China, Mexico, etc. come here with the clothes on their back. And they succeed in life with the very skills our government was designed to foster - hard work, entrepreneurship, good family values, don't break the law. They worship this country and what it offers, they succeed and I believe sometimes see a sediment of soft, lazy people here. Not all, but plenty enough for them to easily outperform even with their immigrant 3rd world education and skills.
And there are those born and raised here that detest that very "environment" as unfair, too hard and pitch lies and deception to get their agenda passed. And many buy it.
Wheels summarized my thoughts pretty well.
-- Posted by not_sorry on Sun, Jan 25, 2015, at 8:54 AM
Does the younger generation of today[as a whole] share that dream of a better life for their children?
-- Posted by Old John on Sun, Jan 25, 2015, at 8:56 AM
-- Posted by Reasoning on Sun, Jan 25, 2015, at 8:42 AM
You're splitting hairs now Reasoning. EVERYONE has equal opportunity to do whatever than want to do...What you're talking about achieving is a utopia, which will never happen...And I take Bruce Springsteen as serious as I do SpongeBob SquarePants.
-- Posted by BonScott on Sun, Jan 25, 2015, at 1:20 PM
Really BS? You believe every child born today has the same opportunity? Some will go home to loving and wonderful parents and some won't, and you know it.
Is it that baby's fault? Heck no. Can that child change it, yeah. But he will work twice as hard as the other kid, with half the advantages and opportunities for help. You call that equal opportunity?
-- Posted by Reasoning on Sun, Jan 25, 2015, at 1:33 PM
"No one is "equally" free. We are all products of the environment in which we are raised"
I do not believe this. If we are strictly products of our environment, I would still be following a mule on a hillside somewhere out in Bollinger County. Some may be content to sit on their backside in the environment they were raised in, while others see opportunity and latch on to it.
Personally I saw opportunity, took the values instilled in me by loving parents and changed my environment.
Now I find those who were "content" are the most critical of those who pursued the opportunities God presented them.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Sun, Jan 25, 2015, at 2:16 PM
Really BS? You believe every child born today has the same opportunity? Some will go home to loving and wonderful parents and some won't, and you know it.
Is it that baby's fault? Heck no. Can that child change it, yeah. But he will work twice as hard as the other kid, with half the advantages and opportunities for help. You call that equal opportunity?
-- Posted by Reasoning on Sun, Jan 25, 2015, at 1:33 PM
I absolutely believe every child has the same opportunity. It's not my problem or the governments problem if their parents are deadbeats. It is up to the individual to play the hand their dealt, whether that be to improve it or be complacent. Either way, it's up to them.
-- Posted by BonScott on Sun, Jan 25, 2015, at 2:29 PM
"But he will work twice as hard as the other kid, with half the advantages and opportunities for help. You call that equal opportunity?"
Yes, the opportunity is there, will the kid you speak of have to work harder.... absolutely, but if he wants it bad enough it is there and he can get it by showing his peer that may have more advantages that he is as good or better than they are.
Or he can take the attitude... "poor pitiful me", sit on his backside and beg for a living.
If "poor pitiful me" takes the position that government will take care of me.... he will always be poor. I have little sympathy for the "poor pitiful me" types. The least among them has as many or more opportunities than a kid from the sticks had in the 50's. You want to be poor, it is a guarantee you will be. If you think the Leftists and the Government will make you rich, you are a fool and a sucker. It is up to you and you alone to change things.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Sun, Jan 25, 2015, at 3:52 PM
Does the younger generation of today[as a whole] share that dream of a better life for their children?
I think years of progressivism has some of our young people conditioned to expect their children will be better off than they were without any dedicated plan or effort of their own.
-- Posted by Old John on Sun, Jan 25, 2015, at 4:02 PM
Does the younger generation of today[as a whole] share that dream of a better life for their children?
-- Posted by Old John on Sun, Jan 25, 2015, at 8:56 AM
Old John,
As a whole? I think maybe not so much. I think they have been conditioned to, it is all about me, today, and don't worry about tomorrow, the government is there to take care of me.
Look at the national debt we are leaving to our children and grandchildren.... does that look like a dream for our children's future?
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Sun, Jan 25, 2015, at 4:12 PM
I absolutely believe every child has the same opportunity. It's not my problem or the governments problem if their parents are deadbeats. It is up to the individual to play the hand their dealt, whether that be to improve it or be complacent. Either way, it's up to them.
-- Posted by BonScott on Sun, Jan 25, 2015, at 2:29 PM
If the parents don't send their kid to school, provide inadequate nutrition, abuse and neglect the child, and you say so what? Tough stuff, pick yourself up, you have all the opportunities of the other kids. BS!
Wheels, key words from your post, 'loving parents'.
RELee, I have nothing to say to you. Go read up on your namesake.
-- Posted by Reasoning on Sun, Jan 25, 2015, at 5:11 PM
"If the parents don't send their kid to school, provide inadequate nutrition, abuse and neglect the child, and you say so what?"
Reasoning,
I thought there was a law saying all children had to be in school until a given age and they are feeding the kids in school. That argument does not hold water.
Yes my parents loved me and gave me a set of values, but they did not encourage me to leave and go out in the world on my own. More so they voiced concern that at 18 I should not be doing so.
School counselors were better prepared to advise me on what lay ahead in the outside world than my parents were. And did so.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Sun, Jan 25, 2015, at 5:30 PM
One meal at school is adequate nutrition?
When the parents get caught for not sending their kids, they say they are 'home schoolin' em'. Over 29 thousand in the state of Missouri are home schooled. And some parents are great at it.
What happens when a kid has lice? They get sent home.
Life is not fair, it just isn't. Some people do everything right, then get sick and it wipes out all they have. Some people do nothing right, and get everything handed to them. So?
So the American Dream is about opportunity, but it isn't about equality.
-- Posted by Reasoning on Sun, Jan 25, 2015, at 5:57 PM
-- Posted by Reasoning on Sun, Jan 25, 2015, at 5:57 PM
"One meal at school is adequate nutrition?"
I believe I read somewhere that students are being given two meals a day and wasting half of the food.
Reasoning, I knew a man from St. Louis who grew up during the depression. He told me what he had for lunch at school is what he could steal on the way to school. He grew up, got his education and was national sales manager for a company we did business with. But he had a desire to get ahead. And he did so.
And please don't tell me that you can get away with simply telling the system you are home schooling your children who are absent from school. I have a daughter that is home schooling two grandchildren. I know better than that.
"Life is not fair, it just isn't."
What are we supposed to do.... cry?
Nobody said life is fair, but I found it gets a hell of a lot fairer if you apply yourself. I thought life was not fair myself when I was hoeing cockle burrs out of corn rows when I was 7 years old, but I was careful not to mention it to my Dad. It did teach me the value of hard work though.
So far as the people getting everything handed to them and they did nothing right. I know some of them and I wouldn't trade places with them for a minute. Many are not a happy lot.
Nobody said we were all equal, but we all have an equal opportunity to pursue our dream. If the dream is strong enough we will find a way.
And may I remind you... we have an obesity problem in this country? We have had plenty of opportunity since the media fixed it's attention on Ferguson to note that there were many overfed young folks out in the streets. Not many are starving in this country. I have been to Africa and I have been to some of the island countries in such as Haiti, there you can see starving children.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Sun, Jan 25, 2015, at 6:33 PM
Who said anything about skinny kids or fat kids? Surely you know more about nutrition than that. A diet of twinkies and pudding cups is not nutrition for success.
"Nobody said we were all equal, but we all have an equal opportunity to pursue our dream. If the dream is strong enough we will find a way."
We all have opportunity, but we don't have equal opportunity! You can look at your friends and family members to see that. We all can.
Nobody is asking you to cry or empathize with anything, but you should acknowledge, some have to work harder than others, and it isn't 'equal opportunity'.
-- Posted by Reasoning on Sun, Jan 25, 2015, at 6:45 PM
-- Posted by Reasoning on Sun, Jan 25, 2015, at 6:45 PM
Reasoning,
If you think success is measured by what you have in your belly, I can tell you that it is only the fire in your belly to achieve that makes the difference.
What I said is..... "we all have an equal opportunity to pursue our dream." Some will have to work harder than others.
And I have acknowledged over and over that some will have to work harder than others.... but the opportunity is there if we want it badly enough.
I know it.... I did it! I left home at 18 years old with $10 in my pocket that my Mother gave me. She said do not lose it. You think I didn't have to scratch to make it. Yes I lived with a cousin for about 2 months and paid no rent. I know what budgeting is and how much I could spend for food, gasoline, etc. I took the first job I could get and it paid $1.10 an hour.
So please do not try enlightening me on how hard it is to pull yourself up by your bootstraps. I been there and I done that. And it builds character. I advise it for all who were not born with a silver spoon in their mouth.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Sun, Jan 25, 2015, at 7:03 PM
Wheels, you are correct about kids getting two meals a day at school. And the kids Reasoning is referring to are getting those meals for free. So when that happens, you can pretty much bet their family is getting good stamps. Everything I just mentioned I have to pay for on top of providing for my family because I, like wheels, decided to make something of my life and not live off of the government. So in the grand scheme of things, it's really not EQUAL for myself...interesting how that works isn't in Reasoning...
-- Posted by BonScott on Sun, Jan 25, 2015, at 8:07 PM
Olivia Walton's dream was to have her whole family Baptized. I can't remember if that was her case but it was in my mother's case.
Didn't Elvis have a song about a poor little child born in the ghetto? Maybe that's when the dream began for America to make everyone equal.
I think America has done a good job in aiding a relatively small percentage of our citizens that are disadvantaged by conditions that can't be overcome by ambition and hard work and it is clear central government does a lousy job of it.
Bottom line is America was not founded on the pursuit of happiness or the guarantee thereof, but Freedom from an overbearing government. We have many times the reasons for revolution now than the founders had. Thankfully the founders saw fit to give us a means of peaceful revolution through the ballot.
Although that means has been eroded, the never ending opportunities of a better America still prevail.
-- Posted by Old John on Sun, Jan 25, 2015, at 8:22 PM
The American Dream has turned into a $18 trillion nightmare.
We are not all equal, if we were then we would all be either rich or poor, educated or uneducated, loved or not loved....since this is not the case than we are not all equal.
-- Posted by Truth Slinger on Sun, Jan 25, 2015, at 9:26 PM
Look at it like this. Some of you poor inferior people need help. You are too stupid and disadvantaged to get a fair shake and we are here to hep you. Vote for us and we will give you two car lengths at the start and you can have a shorter finish line. Meanwhile we can feel good about ourselves for being the party of compassion while accusing the other party of being the supporters of the 1% that have all the money made off the backs of the poor. And how about we let you in on a little secret about rich people destroying our planet, wanting to kill your children via global warming targeting poor people living along the coast due to rising sea levels.
The more you look the more it shows like a comedy not so funny.
-- Posted by Old John on Sun, Jan 25, 2015, at 9:53 PM
Is it that baby's fault? Heck no. Can that child change it, yeah. But he will work twice as hard as the other kid, with half the advantages and opportunities for help. You call that equal opportunity?
-- Posted by Reasoning on Sun, Jan 25, 2015, at 1:33 PM
I wish I could say name but a person in Cape County grew up is a horrible situation starving and in your "no chance" idea. He is now one of the people on top. And no he didn't cheat and BTW was a very honest businessman. Nobody gave him squat.
Lets do another and we will say a name. Gaylon Lawrence. I remember Gaylon as a going broke sharecropper when I was a kid. Me and a friend helped him put in a crop one year because he didn't have the money to hire anyone but paid us after the crop was harvested. Old Gaylon ended up with about 200,000 acres and he was the largest producer of citrus in the US. He also owned a air conditioning distribution company.
BTW he flew us down to his compound in Florida for two weeks of fishing and fun about 10 years ago. He never forgot us.
Yep, you can't make it to the top without government.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Mon, Jan 26, 2015, at 8:16 AM
Regrets,
Was not familiar with Mr Lawrence, but Googled him. Quite impressive. More proof that "Life just isn't fair".
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Mon, Jan 26, 2015, at 9:11 AM
Rick
I figure most everybody has a chance to pursue an opportunity in one way or another if they have the fire in their belly to do so. That has been proven many times over. Of course there is a much smaller percentage of the population who does not have the physical or mental capacity to do as much. But looking around you can see even the physically handicapped, against great odds are capable of doing even greater things.
If you have the fire, there is opportunities for you to advance. If you have the "Poor Pitiful Me" attitude, you are almost surely destined to become a failure. Strive to be the "Best of Whatever You Are". I was told that on the day of my 8th grade graduation.... and I still remember it
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Mon, Jan 26, 2015, at 10:23 AM
Rick
There is a majority of kids born with a silver spoon in their mouth that are totally worthless. Some went on to better things but many are waiting for daddy to die so the can blow his money also. Many will be surprised daddy set up a generation skipping trust.
I think the big driver is wanting things that people said you can't have. If someone said that to me I went for it. Then when you get it they never talk to you again. Oh well........
People come here from other counties and can't believe how lazy Americans are.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Mon, Jan 26, 2015, at 11:43 AM
I think it was Nikola Tesla that on the way to America someone stole all of his belongings. He landed here with 14 cents in his pocket and the cloths on his back. He didn't starve.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Mon, Jan 26, 2015, at 11:52 AM
No doubt. Ask JP Morgan.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Mon, Jan 26, 2015, at 3:01 PM
Rick
I just realized I was using Tesla. Tesla didn't go hungry but made some horrible decisions. Kind of like some old rock stars.
I meant to say Andrew Carnegie.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Mon, Jan 26, 2015, at 3:38 PM
Einstein was asked one time how it felt to be the smartest man in the world? His reply: "I don't know, you will have to ask Nikola Tesla."
-- Posted by left turn on Mon, Jan 26, 2015, at 4:19 PM
Regret, From what I've learned of Andrew Carnegie, I think he had more fire in the belly than smarts. The fire of competition was his passion; Out earn, out give his rivals. His ambition both paid off and cost him in his pursuit of happiness.
-- Posted by Old John on Mon, Jan 26, 2015, at 7:42 PM
-- Posted by Old John on Mon, Jan 26, 2015, at 7:42 PM
He found out at the end he was making more money than he could give away. Now that's a lot of money.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Wed, Jan 28, 2015, at 1:02 PM
He found out at the end he was making more money than he could give away. Now that's a lot of money. -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Wed, Jan 28, 2015, at 1:02 PM
Sounds like the anti-Obama who gives more money away than he can make!
-- Posted by not_sorry on Wed, Jan 28, 2015, at 1:05 PM
One of the things made clear in the U.S. Constitution is the right to clean water and the central government's authority to control all aspects of it. The supreme court was put in place to insure all cases of brown water resulted in remedy via lawyer wealth and consumer compensation. The Congressional Equal Rights Caucus mission statement makes it clear.
Now if you think what I just typed is silly, grab yourself some CSPAN and watch the Senate spend days voting on amendments to the Keystone Pipeline bill knowing that neither side will get the 60 votes required to pass unless it's a resolution to recognize global warming.
And then the president will veto and announce some more regulations like the one he just did making 1/3 of American oil potential illegal.
-- Posted by Old John on Wed, Jan 28, 2015, at 9:22 PM
OJ: He has to protect his Arab buddies oil prices by cutting USA production.
-- Posted by Truth Slinger on Wed, Jan 28, 2015, at 9:27 PM
semo471, I don't like it but think you are right.
I can't seem to find anything our president has done lately that rings good for our country.
-- Posted by Old John on Wed, Jan 28, 2015, at 9:50 PM
Old John, I believe you are a denier. Is your glass empty?
-- Posted by Reasoning on Thu, Jan 29, 2015, at 5:58 AM
"Now if you think what I just typed is silly, grab yourself some CSPAN and watch the Senate spend days voting on amendments to the Keystone Pipeline bill knowing that neither side will get the 60 votes required to pass unless it's a resolution to recognize global warming."
Yes, Global Warming. Brought to us by people with scientific backgrounds, pretty much like the predictors who could not tell us accurately how much snow New York was going to get 12 hours in advance.
How do they presume to know what is going to take place 50 years in advance?
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Thu, Jan 29, 2015, at 8:30 AM
This President speak with forked tongue .
-- Posted by ▪Rick on Thu, Jan 29, 2015, at 8:36 AM
Translated into everyday English.... he is a outright bald faced liar!
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Thu, Jan 29, 2015, at 10:09 AM
President Obama said the other day that a gun shot to the temple could cause serious injury or even death. To prove that Obama is a liar, Wheels will stand on the courthouse steps in Jackson and have Dug shoot him in the temple with a 357 magnum to prove Obama wrong. Wheels will announce later a time and date. Be there or be square.
-- Posted by left turn on Thu, Jan 29, 2015, at 12:08 PM
I just got word that after Dug shoots Wheels in the temple, Wheels will the turn and do the same thing to Dug. The outcome of this will be ???????
-- Posted by left turn on Thu, Jan 29, 2015, at 12:13 PM
Just got a taste of the New American Dream recently. After retirement I started a little part time service LLC that has blossomed into more than I really want. I needed some help. Met a young lady who is an in-law of an in-law over the holidays. No silver spoon but a nice spoon. Good family but through bad choices and worse luck she seemed in bad straits but was trying hard to turn it around. I offered her the job. $20/hr,guaranteed 40 hours,no weekends. You know the very first thing she said? "Can you pay me cash"? Huh,what? No,this a business and you will be an employee so I have to do it right and take out taxes,SSN,etc. best I could do was maybe a sub-contractor 1099 but it still must be reported. She turned my offer down and proceeded to explain that making that much money she would lose all her government benefits. So she is still at her part time minimum wage deadend job but with subsidized housing,WIC,earned income rebate welfare and the list goes on she clears more than I could have ever afforded. She's living the New American Dream. So much for a hand up to those in need. Can't compete with the gummint.
-- Posted by rocknroll on Thu, Jan 29, 2015, at 12:32 PM
-- Posted by rocknroll on Thu, Jan 29, 2015, at 12:32 PM
Great example r&r...Sadly, you'll have "liberals"(some on here) that will say you're lying, that would never happens.
-- Posted by BonScott on Thu, Jan 29, 2015, at 12:40 PM
rnr, that BS, if true by her is what gives people who actually need help a bad name. I don't know if there is a process but, these are things that should be reported to the agencies she is collecting from. When you classify someone under a 1099, you lose virtually any authority over their job activities. I had a person shoot me the same offer one time and I said h____ no!! That's the biggest red flag you can wave in front of the IRS.
-- Posted by left turn on Thu, Jan 29, 2015, at 12:44 PM
I hired a guy once that didn't show up. He said it would cost him his unemployment check that was 3/4 of what the job paid. He lost that check anyway.
-- Posted by Old John on Thu, Jan 29, 2015, at 12:51 PM
President Obama said the other day that a gun shot to the temple could cause serious injury or even death. -- Posted by left turn on Thu, Jan 29, 2015, at 12:08 PM
President Obama said the other day that you could keep your current insurance. Period.
President Obama said the other day that raising the US debt limit was a sign of poor leadership.
President Obama said the other day that he had shovel ready jobs all over the country.
President Obama said the other day that he would "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
======
Your little deflection posts are so weak. Keep licking those Obama boots lefty!
-- Posted by not_sorry on Thu, Jan 29, 2015, at 12:58 PM
"President Obama said the other day that he would "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
And so he has. Just because he interprets the constitution different than your radical approach, does not mean he isn't doing it correctly.
-- Posted by Reasoning on Thu, Jan 29, 2015, at 1:30 PM
-- Posted by Reasoning on Thu, Jan 29, 2015, at 1:30 PM
..."radical approach". Are you serious Reasoning? Do I have to go over this again? Please give us one "radical" example.
-- Posted by BonScott on Thu, Jan 29, 2015, at 1:44 PM
"President Obama said the other day that a gun shot to the temple could cause serious injury or even death"
And that show you how stupid he thinks you are. Pretty everyone except for kids under 4 know that.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Thu, Jan 29, 2015, at 2:00 PM
BTW since this thread is about the American dream the EIC checks will be a couple of weeks late. So if you are counting on the free $5000 next week for doing nothing you'll have to wait. Oh the misery...... It must be a conspiracy by the Koch Brothers.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Thu, Jan 29, 2015, at 2:05 PM
Left turn,I thought about the reporting thing. A lot. I hesitate just because of the world of time and trouble it may cause me. Am I shrugging it off? Not really,just thinking I could run into some government desk jockey who wouldn't follow up on it anyway. Sometimes I think they are like the old shoe factory,they're paid on piece work. Just turned down a chance for the expansion so I'll keep on keeping on myself. I found a niche service that big companies charge 4 times my fees. Plus,I'm sure the wife enjoys my absence!
-- Posted by rocknroll on Thu, Jan 29, 2015, at 2:06 PM
Reason: What do you think about Left Turn's violent gun post today at 12:08 and 12:13?
-- Posted by Truth Slinger on Thu, Jan 29, 2015, at 2:37 PM
Rick, we all know it but the "liberals" won't admit it....It's that whole hypocracy thing. :)
-- Posted by BonScott on Thu, Jan 29, 2015, at 3:18 PM
-- Posted by left turn on Thu, Jan 29, 2015, at 12:08 PM
-- Posted by left turn on Thu, Jan 29, 2015, at 12:13 PM
Lefty,
Your stalking is flattering but your materials are childish and not all that funny.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Thu, Jan 29, 2015, at 3:31 PM
Posted by semo471 on Thu, Jan 29, 2015, at 2:37 PM
Reason: You never did answer my question. If someone from the Right had made the statements, you would have been all over it.
-- Posted by Truth Slinger on Sat, Jan 31, 2015, at 12:09 PM
Semo471
Do not expect an answer to your question.
Leftists have a "Get Out Of Jail Free Card" with all other Leftists and may say and post whatever suits them, no mater how stupid, outlandish or phoney it may be.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Sat, Jan 31, 2015, at 1:03 PM
"Many who think themselves infinitely superior to the aberrations of Nazism, and sincerely hate all manifestations, work at the same time for ideals whose realization would lead straight to the abhorred tyranny." -- F.A. Hayek
-- Posted by ▪Rick on Sat, Jan 31, 2015, at 6:29 PM
Rick,
I think Hayek is speaking of your Obamaerals who are really nothing but the tools of the current leadership and will be the first to be walked over as soon as they are no longer useful.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Sat, Jan 31, 2015, at 7:26 PM
Reason: What do you think about Left Turn's violent gun post today at 12:08 and 12:13?
-- Posted by semo471 on Thu, Jan 29, 2015, at 2:37 PM
I wouldn't have posted them. I think, considering his other posts, he was trying to prove a point. I hope Dug wasn't scared or threatened.
-- Posted by Reasoning on Sat, Jan 31, 2015, at 8:50 PM
-- Posted by Reasoning on Sat, Jan 31, 2015, at 8:50 PM
If he ever had a point he sure is inept at making it.
I go back to what I said before. It's that "Get Out Of Jail Free Card". I have yet to see one of you Leftists chastise one of your own for the very same things you criticize a Conservative Poster for.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Sat, Jan 31, 2015, at 10:15 PM
I hope Dug wasn't scared or threatened. -- Posted by Reasoning on Sat, Jan 31, 2015, at 8:50 PM
Freudian slip there? You're the only hoplophobic person on here (an irrational fear/phobia of guns). Not me . I have 'em and know how to use 'em - and I haven't killed anyone with them! Despite your constant screaming about the fact that guns are only used to kill.
Is this what you're reduced to now? Little pot shots? Cute, but ineffective.
Oh- here's the definition that fits you to a tee:
"Hoplophobia is a neologism, originally coined as a pejorative, to describe an "irrational aversion to weapons." It is sometimes used more generally to describe the "fear of firearms" or colloquially as the "fear of armed citizens.""
-- Posted by not_sorry on Sun, Feb 1, 2015, at 12:53 AM
"Hoplophobia is not a phobia listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) published by the American Psychiatric Association"
Jeff Cooper, a radical, conservative firearms instructor, who was NOT a medical or mental health professional, coined the word in 1962 to denigrate and anger proponents of gun control by claiming that their thoughts were "aberrant" and unreasoning.
A relative of yours?
-- Posted by Reasoning on Sun, Feb 1, 2015, at 6:32 AM
"Hoplophobia is not a phobia listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) published by the American Psychiatric Association"-- Posted by Reasoning on Sun, Feb 1, 2015, at 6:32 AM
Reason: It should be listed, maybe in the next version it will be.
-- Posted by Truth Slinger on Sun, Feb 1, 2015, at 10:44 AM
Hoplophobia - From The Free Dictionary by Farlex
"Medical status
Hoplophobia is not a phobia listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) published by the American Psychiatric Association. It is listed in The Encylopedia of Phobias, Fears, and Anxieties, Third Edition as well as the Oxford Dictionary of Psychology.
The meaning and usage ascribed by Cooper falls outside of the definition of a phobia used by the DSM. For example, one diagnostic criteria of phobias is that the person be aware and acknowledge that their fear is irrational, and usually causes some kind of functional impairment.[10] True medical phobias of firearms and other weapons can exist, but are unusual.[3"
Aha Reasoning,
But it is used in the medical field despite your assertion that it is not recognized.
And, the statement..... ".....coined the word in 1962 to denigrate and anger proponents of gun control by claiming that their thoughts were "aberrant" and unreasoning." is untrue. That was merely an opinion of a Pittsburgh Tribune-Review columnist Dimitri Vassilaros.... and hopped on by you.
Where do you Leftist anti-gun nutcases come off pretending to know what Mr Cooper had in mind when he created the word from solid sources?
Personally I think he was being very kind to the lot of you with his description.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Sun, Feb 1, 2015, at 11:41 AM
Rick,
The problem comes in when one starts stating their opinion(s) as fact(s).
That would be my opinion.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Sun, Feb 1, 2015, at 12:04 PM
"Hoplophobia, the morbid fear of guns, is a real, extremely dangerous, widespread and clinically recognizable complex specific phobia with a number of unique characteristics, described. It has caused and continues to cause grievous harm in America."
I see you found a site that contradicts your phobias. But that doesn't matter as there are others that say you're wrong.
And of course on the SO Forum you are known as the gun-phobia king based on your own public phobia postings. Here's another for you:
"In my experience, the common thread in anti-gun people is rage. Either anti-gun people harbor more rage than others, or they're less able to cope with it appropriately. Because they can't handle their own feelings of rage, they are forced to use defense mechanisms in an unhealthy manner. Because they wrongly perceive others as seeking to harm them, they advocate the disarmament of ordinary people who have no desire to harm anyone."--Dr. Sarah Thompson, MD"
-- Posted by not_sorry on Sun, Feb 1, 2015, at 12:12 PM
"I coined the term "hoplophobia" in 1962 in response to a perceived need for a word to describe a mental aberration consisting of an unreasoning terror of gadgetry, specifically, weapons."
From Jeff Cooper's Commentaries. June 1997, pg. 39.
Jeff Cooper is NOT a medical or mental health professional.
What he is? a firearms instructor. Wow, he certainly would have a vested interest in guns and ammunition, hardly unbiased or professional in any way.
Could care less what you think I am known as Dug. I know what you are known as.
-- Posted by Reasoning on Sun, Feb 1, 2015, at 1:34 PM
"I coined the term "hoplophobia" in 1962 in response to a perceived need for a word to describe a mental aberration consisting of an unreasoning terror of gadgetry, specifically, weapons."
From Jeff Cooper's Commentaries. June 1997, pg. 39.
-- Posted by Reasoning on Sun, Feb 1, 2015, at 1:34 PM
Which had nothing to do with the reason you stated for him having coined the word "hoplophobia"! Good to see you recognize that and admit you were wrong.
So far as him having a vested interest... most people have a vested interest in something. What is yours when it comes to hating firearms?
And know this, his coined word, if or not you agree with it, has stood the test of time.... will any of your "original" wordage on firearms control stand the same test?
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Sun, Feb 1, 2015, at 1:49 PM
Could care less what you think I am known as Dug. I know what you are known as. -- Posted by Reasoning on Sun, Feb 1, 2015, at 1:34 PM
You're defined by your own words, not mine. Absolutely gun paranoid. Hoplophobia is the perfect diagnosis. Dr. Sarah Thompson says that when it comes to guns, people like you harbor more rage and have difficulty in dealing with it. Then you resort to "advocate the disarmament of ordinary people who have no desire to harm anyone."
-- Posted by not_sorry on Sun, Feb 1, 2015, at 3:13 PM
-- Posted by Truth Slinger on Mon, Feb 2, 2015, at 9:11 AM
"...children die from gun tragedy and it hits the front pages so all 300,000 million must pay by losing their rights..."
Which "right" is that? The "right" to leave the gun loaded until toddlers are able to load it themselves?
Also if we did have 300 billion people in America, it would be a bit more crowded.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Mon, Feb 2, 2015, at 9:17 AM
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Mon, Feb 2, 2015, at 9:17 AM
Who ever said 300 billion?
-- Posted by BonScott on Mon, Feb 2, 2015, at 9:23 AM
...300,000 million equals 300 billion...
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Mon, Feb 2, 2015, at 9:37 AM
Common: Wow, didn't know a Liberal knew the difference between a million and a billion.
-- Posted by Truth Slinger on Mon, Feb 2, 2015, at 9:47 AM
Common: Wow, didn't know a Liberal knew the difference between a million and a billion. -- Posted by semo471 on Mon, Feb 2, 2015, at 9:47 AM
Good point!
And trillions are just "fake numbers". :-)
-- Posted by not_sorry on Mon, Feb 2, 2015, at 9:52 AM
"...difference between a million and a billion."
Correcting all of errors and mistakes, rectifying the various misstatements, fixing the blunders, spotting all the misinformation spread on SO by the conservatives is a tough job, but somebody's got to do it.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Mon, Feb 2, 2015, at 10:06 AM
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Mon, Feb 2, 2015, at 10:06 AM
Common: One error a week isn't that tough of a job.
-- Posted by Truth Slinger on Mon, Feb 2, 2015, at 10:11 AM
...300,000 million equals 300 billion...
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Mon, Feb 2, 2015, at 9:37 AM
Is that Common Core math? I guess I'm confused, because I learned 300 million equals 300 million.
-- Posted by BonScott on Mon, Feb 2, 2015, at 10:31 AM
Rick, I think you're more conservative than you think, IMO...:)
-- Posted by BonScott on Mon, Feb 2, 2015, at 10:35 AM
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Mon, Feb 2, 2015, at 10:06 AM
My only thought as I read this tripe was "Physician Heal Thyself".
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Mon, Feb 2, 2015, at 10:59 AM
My only thought as I read this tripe was "Physician Heal Thyself".
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ÁÙ on Mon, Feb 2, 2015, at 10:59 AM
Wow, pretty much what I think on a lot of posts.
Rick, Do you think the parents of the toddler who shot them, should maybe not own a firearm? Maybe they should lose that privilege?
-- Posted by Reasoning on Mon, Feb 2, 2015, at 11:53 AM
Do you think the parents of the toddler who shot them, should maybe not own a firearm? Maybe they should lose that privilege?
-- Posted by Reasoning on Mon, Feb 2, 2015, at 11:53 AM
Reasoning,
Your first mistake is that owning a firearm is not a privilege.... it is a right, guaranteed to us by the 2nd amendment.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Mon, Feb 2, 2015, at 12:39 PM
It is not a natural right, it is a legal privilege bestowed by the government. So, you are totally willing to have the government control your 'rights' as long as they are what you want.
I feel like we are making our way back to that H word again.
I have made many mistakes, Wheels, but this isn't one of them.
-- Posted by Reasoning on Mon, Feb 2, 2015, at 1:13 PM
I feel like we are making our way back to that H word again. -- Posted by Reasoning on Mon, Feb 2, 2015, at 1:13 PM
"H" word - hoplophobic? I'm glad you recognize your condition now - that's the first step to curing your condition. Sit down, relax and breath slowly. Close your eyes and count sheep in your mind with "Obama 2016" stickers on their sides... that should help with the phobia.
-- Posted by not_sorry on Mon, Feb 2, 2015, at 1:21 PM
I have made many mistakes, Wheels, but this isn't one of them.
-- Posted by Reasoning on Mon, Feb 2, 2015, at 1:13 PM
The ratified wording of the 2nd amendment says you are wrong again. Unless you are the supreme ruler of the United States, I do not believe your opinion counts for much.
The wording says "right"... get it?
The wording follows.....
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Mon, Feb 2, 2015, at 2:07 PM
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ÁÙ on Mon, Feb 2, 2015, at 2:07 PM
Wheels: The Federal Constitution "guarantees" the "right" to bear arms as part of the Bill of Rights to the Constitution and no Liberal President short of declaring Martial Law will ever get around it.
-- Posted by Truth Slinger on Mon, Feb 2, 2015, at 5:22 PM
semo, The amendments/bill of rights originated in the states. Can you imagine the states coming together to suppress the federal government through the amendment process today? Our latest amendments originated in the executive branch.
At some time the executive will need to brought under control. The framers knew the president's duties exceeded the ability of one man so to keep him honest they gave the senate the responsibility of advise and consent in appointing his help.
Obama's choice to replace Holder claims illegal immigrants have equal rights to jobs as American citizens and it looks like the Republican controlled senate is fine with that. Seems we are no longer a republican nation as founded.
-- Posted by Old John on Mon, Feb 2, 2015, at 8:02 PM
It also says to "bear arms". If you are going to take it literally, then take it literally. Not just to suit your agenda.
-- Posted by Reasoning on Mon, Feb 2, 2015, at 8:19 PM
It also says to "bear arms". If you are going to take it literally, then take it literally. Not just to suit your agenda.
-- Posted by Reasoning on Mon, Feb 2, 2015, at 8:19 PM
Reasoning,
You are trying to squirm your way out of what you said. If the following is what you are referring to.... you still are wrong. It still says "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms"
What part of "right" do you not understand"
Nowhere that I find except in your convoluted Leftist religion of banning firearms does it say anything about it being a "privilege".
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Mon, Feb 2, 2015, at 9:08 PM
Wheels: Reason means you have the right to wear short sleeve shirts.
-- Posted by Truth Slinger on Mon, Feb 2, 2015, at 9:18 PM
Wheels: Reason means you have the right to wear short sleeve shirts.
-- Posted by semo471 on Mon, Feb 2, 2015, at 9:18 PM
Semo471,
What you hear is me pounding my head on my desk.... why didn't I think of that? I should have known.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Mon, Feb 2, 2015, at 9:23 PM
And for the 1,000th time I AM Not A CONSERVATIVE .
-- Posted by ▪Rick on Mon, Feb 2, 2015, at 10:27 AM
Maybe you're not being judged by what you say, but what you do. Recall the ...looks like a duck... thing.
Guess you might be known by the company you keep and who you constantly agree with. If you claim to not be a "conservative" why do you keep feeding your "conservative wolf."
As they say... Birds of a feather, flock together - Old English
Or...
Those that lie down with dogs, get up with fleas. - Blackfoot
Or...
We will be known forever by the tracks we leave. - Dakota
Perhaps you should stop leaving "conservative tracks."
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Tue, Feb 3, 2015, at 12:05 PM
Perhaps you should stop leaving "conservative tracks."
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Tue, Feb 3, 2015, at 12:05 PM
Says the Poster on the other thread that says he had some Conservative leanings.
I see I called it correctly.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Tue, Feb 3, 2015, at 12:12 PM
"I see I called it correctly."
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ÁÙ on Tue, Feb 3, 2015, at 12:12 PM.
Sorry, but I have yet to see anything of substance, correct, or even sensible come out of any post turned in by Mr. Wheels.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Tue, Feb 3, 2015, at 2:34 PM
Posted by commonsensematters on Tue, Feb 3, 2015, at 2:34 PM
That's why everyone laughs when you claim you're an independent with some conservative leanings...
-- Posted by BonScott on Tue, Feb 3, 2015, at 2:41 PM
"...had some Conservative leanings."
That's true. I have continually advanced proposals for smaller and less costly government. The way to achieve that would be to totally re-justify every federal agency's manpower and budget of a 5 to 10 year cycle, and do so on a zero-based format, and adjust Social Security and Medicare
My understanding is that the republican/conservative method to reduce the size and cost of government is eliminate welfare, Social Security and Medicare and cut taxes for the top 5%. If you have a better method, what is it?
The reply I expect is none, which validates my previous post.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Tue, Feb 3, 2015, at 2:45 PM
My understanding is that the republican/conservative method to reduce the size and cost of government is eliminate welfare, Social Security and Medicare and cut taxes for the top 5%. If you have a better method, what is it?
The reply I expect is none, which validates my previous post.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Tue, Feb 3, 2015, at 2:45 PM
My reply would be... you must have dreamed your "understanding" scenario up in a drunken stupor.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Tue, Feb 3, 2015, at 2:59 PM
"My reply would be... you must have dreamed your "understanding" scenario up in a drunken stupor."
Looks like your record of obtuse and inane replies remains unbroken.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Tue, Feb 3, 2015, at 3:36 PM
It would seem to be preferable for the occupants to keep an even keel and avoid tipping to either extreme.
That's why I favor some conservative and some liberal positions. Flip-flopping does not seen to be necessary, neither does tipping over.
"I speak to the one who laughs at me daily."
And that does not mean anything to me. I have no idea who you're referring to, or why you would believe that.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Tue, Feb 3, 2015, at 3:46 PM
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Tue, Feb 3, 2015, at 2:45 PM
I believe they need to cut out or eliminate what the FEDERAL government is not supposed to do or be involved in. It's that simple....You should be all for that since you are an independent with conservative leanings...:)
-- Posted by BonScott on Tue, Feb 3, 2015, at 3:48 PM
"My reply would be... you must have dreamed your "understanding" scenario up in a drunken stupor."
Looks like your record of obtuse and inane replies remains unbroken.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Tue, Feb 3, 2015, at 3:36 PM
Common,
Even you are not dumb enough to believe there is a Republican alive with the knads to even suggest eliminating Social Security and Medicare.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Tue, Feb 3, 2015, at 3:53 PM
"Laughing at fools like me?"
There are several SO conservative participants that are laughed at regularly. You are not one of them from my position.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Tue, Feb 3, 2015, at 5:01 PM
Rick,that should be a learning lesson that one can't be nice to a psycho-babbling paranoid schizophrenic obviously off his meds.
-- Posted by rocknroll on Tue, Feb 3, 2015, at 6:30 PM
Rick,that should be a learning lesson that one can't be nice to a psycho-babbling paranoid schizophrenic obviously off his meds.
-- Posted by rocknroll on Tue, Feb 3, 2015, at 6:30 PM
Thanks for letting us know you ran out of medicine Rock. Hope someone hid your guns.
-- Posted by Reasoning on Tue, Feb 3, 2015, at 8:30 PM
You are not one of them from my position.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Tue, Feb 3, 2015, at 5:01 PM
So what is your position? Is it like my friend that had a position with the solid waste division of a high dollar company? I think he was behind a lot of cutting edge innovation when the company upgraded equipment. :) :)
-- Posted by Old John on Tue, Feb 3, 2015, at 8:50 PM
Free community college for the masses....who pays for this and the other Socialist program Pinkycare?.....The few working middle class tax payers.
-- Posted by Truth Slinger on Wed, Feb 4, 2015, at 8:47 AM
Menu
It's a pretty familiar term, but what does it mean?
To some of our ancestors the fulfillment of the American dream was to find success in procuring freedoms concerning religion, and opportunities of wealth.
I think the lasting theme depicting the American Dream was to leave children with even better chances of that achievement.
History tells us we as a nation have accomplished that.
Has the meaning of the American Dream been redefined a bit over the years? Maybe so.
A neighbor was blessed in that his parents left him with their work ethic and love of family.
He is living his American Dream, able to not only help his children but recently able to buy an old tractor for his nearly teenage grandsons to restore under his guidance this summer.
What's your American Dream and does it line up with the younger generation's American Dream?
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