Yes, politicians should be accountable for their campaign promises.
-- Posted by Turnip on Sat, Oct 17, 2009, at 2:28 PM
Haven't I been saying this (uselessly) for many years?
Any campaign promise by any politician which is not fulfilled within a certain period of time should be grounds for his/her 'dismissal' (a nice word for firing an employee).
Just think though how boring campaigns would become if that were a law ... Can see it now:
'If elected, I promise to do everything in my power to satisfy every special-interest group in America.
'I promise to keep the American public informed of everything that I personally believe they need to know.
'I promise that my administration will not spend money on anything which I don't personally think is important.
'I promise to resign if, after a nationwide poll of the members of my party, it appears that I haven't kept my campaign promises.'
-- Posted by gurusmom on Sat, Oct 17, 2009, at 3:02 PM
Haven't I been saying this (uselessly) for many years?
Any campaign promise by any politician which is not fulfilled within a certain period of time should be grounds for his/her 'dismissal' (a nice word for firing an employee).
Just think though how boring campaigns would become if that were a law ... Can see it now:
'If elected, I promise to do everything in my power to satisfy every special-interest group in America.
'I promise to keep the American public informed of everything that I personally believe they need to know.
'I promise that my administration will not spend money on anything which I don't personally think is important.
'I promise to resign if, after a nationwide poll of the members of my party, it appears that I haven't kept my campaign promises.'
-- Posted by gurusmom on Sat, Oct 17, 2009, at 3:06 PM
UH! I left the room, came back ... and found two identical posts ... Guess I'd better go find something else to do!
So sorry!
-- Posted by gurusmom on Sat, Oct 17, 2009, at 3:07 PM
If you elected them it is your job to see that their promises are met.
-- Posted by James Nall on Sat, Oct 17, 2009, at 3:13 PM
Can I say my responsibility ends here on this one? :-)
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sat, Oct 17, 2009, at 3:15 PM
Mom,
Maybe we should enter our Pediders, as my Grandson called my computer when he was 3, into a contest, to see which one is more incompetent.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sat, Oct 17, 2009, at 3:18 PM
Vote 'em out? Not since the manipulators learned how to "manipulate" elections.
-- Posted by voyager on Sat, Oct 17, 2009, at 5:27 PM
Haven't seen it yet, although I'm sure it's being done somewhere, somehow - have a nice, condensed scorecard listing the bullet points of the officeholder's platform during the previous campaign, followed by the action items taken since, along with the 'billable' hours spent on that promise.
A brief round-up would certainly would help the growing numbers with short attention spans, as well as continuously remind the officeholder that someone is keeping score.
Crossing over into fantasy-land - the incumbent's election percentage would be the lesser of the percentage of kept promises or the popular vote received.
-- Posted by fxpwt on Sat, Oct 17, 2009, at 5:54 PM
"Publicity is justly commended as a remedy for social and industrial diseases. Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants; electric light the most efficient policeman."
I'd say President Obama paraphrased Brandeis' statement quite well, and it was particularly apropos given the context of his speech, which Theo Spark seems to have largely omitted.
Have you considered the likelihood that Theo Spark is the liar, given his false claim about something so easily checked?
Now, if the President had interrupted homeward-bound sailors for a photo-op by having the ship wait about 30 miles offshore, just so he could be flown onto deck by military jet even though it was easily accessible by his Presidential Helicopter, and falsely claimed an end to major combat operations in the Iraqi War along with a "Mission Accomplished" banner backdrop, then he would be a liar.
-- Posted by Ediacaran on Sun, Oct 18, 2009, at 1:08 AM
No contest, Wheels ... My computer would win hands down!
I vote to put fxpwt in charge of the Keeping Campaign Promises scorecard.
-- Posted by gurusmom on Sun, Oct 18, 2009, at 1:15 AM
Ediacaran, Good point.
-- Posted by TheCamp on Sun, Oct 18, 2009, at 1:21 AM
Edi,
Has anybody told you Bush is no longer President?
He was when Obama was uttering all of those lies about what he was going to do, if we would just elect him President.
Which one of those lies that were pointed out, has been done so in error and why?
That was Barrack Hussein Obama speaking was it not, were those not his words? I know I saw his lips moving.
Sunlight is what was being shed on these unkept promises.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Oct 18, 2009, at 1:28 AM
Ediacaran, Good point.
-- Posted by TheCamp on Sun, Oct 18, 2009, at 1:21 AM
What was his point Camp? Still trying to figure it out here.
I believe what Edi was doing is called obfuscation.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Oct 18, 2009, at 1:34 AM
Tracking Obama's promises
47 Promise Kept
12 Compromise
7 Promise Broken
13 Stalled
123 In the Works
313 No Action
Not doing to bad... I would hate to see some other presidents. Also he tells more truths and less lies than the conservative talk heads in Rush Limpballs and Beck.
I just find it troubling so many conservatives only have problems with it NOW...
-- Posted by futile_rant on Sun, Oct 18, 2009, at 5:41 AM
Wheels, have you already forgotten the video to which you linked? If that's not sufficient for you, here's a hint: watch the video, and look and listen for the statements regarding Brandeis. Then reread my earlier comment for comprehension.
-- Posted by Ediacaran on Sun, Oct 18, 2009, at 9:08 AM
Just wish it were a year from now and the midterms over. From that point the manchild will be on the inevitable slide into oblivian as the worst one termer in history.
It will happen.
-- Posted by voyager on Sun, Oct 18, 2009, at 1:04 PM
Ahh, blind faith. It must be comforting. Sorry to tell you voyager but your nightmare just getting started.
-- Posted by riregrist on Sun, Oct 18, 2009, at 1:09 PM
"... he tells more truths and less lies than the conservative talk heads in Rush Limpballs and Beck."
Fortunately, futile ... regardless of who tells more truth and less lies, neither Limbaugh nor Beck are our president. So ... as Mama used to say ... "What's all that got to do with the price of tea in China?"
Obama made over 500 campaign promises? Wow! He must have had more confidence than I gave him credit for to believe he could accomplish all that! Or ... is it an indication that he was just throwing out empty promises in order to cover all bases he could think of?
My bottom line on 'promising' has always been: Make a promise, keep a promise ... don't make a promise unless you honestly believe you can keep it.
-- Posted by gurusmom on Sun, Oct 18, 2009, at 5:03 PM
Edi,
You appear to be stalled on what Sparks calls lie no 2. Not sure where he was coming from, other than Sparks considered it to be a misquote, greatest vs best, or that it was taken out context on a much broader document.
Transparency and openess I think is key to the broken campaign promises.
Not only has there not been transparency and openess, there has been the deliberate bringing into our government of tax cheats, communists, and various other unsavory charaters to operate out of sight for the most part with oversight by no one except Obama himself.
Back to the question "Should Politicians be held accountable for campaign promises?"
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Oct 18, 2009, at 6:09 PM
Someone else on here doesn't understand that Bush is no longer President and has not been since January 2009.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Oct 18, 2009, at 6:11 PM
OK - this is a great start for what I was envisioning -
Interpret the percentage however one wishes for this point in the term - my goal here is an improved means by which to better track and, more importantly, to better communicate 'promises kept' vs. 'promises made' for any and all officeholders. In many regular jobs, effort is not a substitute for results on the merit evaluation.
Whether these results are agreeable gets to be a whole 'nuther discussion.
-- Posted by fxpwt on Sun, Oct 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM
fxpwt,
wat are you going to call your chart, program or whatever it's final format will be?
Could I suggest maybe a Lye O' Meter.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Oct 18, 2009, at 6:33 PM
Back to the question "Should Politicians be held accountable for campaign promises?"
Already answered that, I believe ... YES ... to the point of being dismissed if they don't carry through with their promises.
Most of their promises probably could never be fulfilled ... campaigning politicians know that for a certainty. So ...
What's wrong with insisting on total honesty from them during their campaigns? If that means that they had to be more honest and cautious about tossing out those empty, impossible-to-achieve 'promises' ... Wouldn't that be a good thing? And if we do not expect hopeful politicians to be honest during their campaigns, how on earth could we expect them to be honest in office?
Aw, fxpwt, I just knew you were the one to keep the scorecard! You're great!
Thanks for just a very few reminders, Wiffle. I don't care much what past presidents have done, since we cannot change the past ... I care about what a present president is doing ... or not doing. Playing the Blame Game certainly does not accomplish anything, nor does it justify a new president making even more mistakes.
-- Posted by gurusmom on Sun, Oct 18, 2009, at 6:57 PM
Wonder if we've ever really had one, Rick?
-- Posted by gurusmom on Sun, Oct 18, 2009, at 11:13 PM
No need to argue with this Republican crew. I'm just gonna keep an eye on President Obama and if he continues to ring true I'm gonna vote for him again in four years.
-- Posted by TheCamp on Mon, Oct 19, 2009, at 12:42 AM
So our president has lied becasue he hasn't accopmlished all his campaign promises...
Interesting. I thought a presidentail term was 4 years.
And yes, they are held accountable...We get to vote every 4 years.
-- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Mon, Oct 19, 2009, at 10:02 AM
I am confused. Are we just talking about the promises that only President Obama hasn't kept or is it all politicians? I seem to recall this thread as a recurring criticism of politicians in general that pops up from time to time. I can recall elections and un-kept promises made over the last 5 decades. A whole lot of promises by pols, few ever delivered everything they promised.
As much fun as it is beating up on our past and current presidents, the state and national legislators are worse. I am amazed that anybody who has to stand for election every two years can accomplish so little and expect to be re-elected. . . .wait, I remember . . . it is more important that we send someone from the right party back to make our laws than it is to send someone who works for the common good.
Ya know, it is a strength of our system that we give only limited powers to a president . We do not elect a king. If we did - all the promises made last fall would now be law and in place. Whew!! Thankfully, we get to have this hashed out in congress (sort of) and ultimately reviewed by the courts (kind of). An ok system, all in all.
-- Posted by one4kids on Mon, Oct 19, 2009, at 11:17 AM
Great post. 100% correct.
Also along the same lines, I am tired of seeing people who are running for county positions claiming to be prolife. Who cares. That impacts nothing on this level. I refused to vote for people that make such claims.
-- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Mon, Oct 19, 2009, at 12:45 PM
Lumber,
I am Pro Life and I do pay attention to those kinds of statements, for the following reason.
While you are correct in your statement, that they do not have an impact at that level, little crooks tend to become big crooks and I do not intend to be a party to launchig someone's career at the County level if they are obviously opposed to my own beliefs. To do so would be dishonest, would it not?
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Oct 19, 2009, at 12:55 PM
Wheels,
No.
I would rather people run on substance, rather than a generlized ticket. I am sorry you vote based on "laucnhing pad" status. It's your right to do so, but I feel there are many more pressing issues in Southeast Missouri than deciding "who we might launch."
I vote against those people becasue I bleive they are communicating to me that thay have no platform, or nothing to offer as part of their campiagn. So they simply put out "prolife" becasue they lack a message. I am not saying don't vote for people who fit your profile, but in all this discussion on these threads about local politician and taxes, how come we never discuss if they are prolife?
-- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Mon, Oct 19, 2009, at 1:15 PM
Lumber,
You brought up Pro Life I believe.
But I will not vote for a politician who does not hold my values. And it extends way beyond Pro Life. Got too many of them on the payroll already.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Oct 19, 2009, at 2:21 PM
Wheels,
I don't undertstand your political alignment.
You come on here and rail about big government and wastefull spending like you actually care about that. But yet, you just said Prolife is a bigger issue? Sorry if I don't follow this logic.
I guess that is how the Nathan Coopers get elected.
-- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Mon, Oct 19, 2009, at 2:26 PM
If they had to tell the truth. 1. Would anyone run for office? 2. Would America as a whole accept the truth if they heard it? 3. Does the average joe want to know the truth?
-- Posted by Airborne 95B on Mon, Oct 19, 2009, at 2:40 PM
But yet, you just said Prolife is a bigger issue? Sorry if I don't follow this logic.
-- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Mon, Oct 19, 2009, at 2:26 PM
Lumber,
You need to read a little slower and try to comprehend. Now you have me typing slow.
I never said that, number one and two, conservative thinkers are more apt to be anti big government and anti-abortion.
Exceptions do apply though.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Oct 19, 2009, at 4:07 PM
Wheels,
I see. So you are one of those who are party affiliated and vote based on a R or D.
That is fine, that is your right.
However, I would rather my local candiates clarify thier positions rather than rely on people's perceptions.
If you don't want to let people know your position on local issues and rather get elected because you are pro life.
Me, I guess I am more concerned about less important things like property tax, school bonds, etc. then weather or not know my alderman's position on an issue he will never decide on.
-- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Mon, Oct 19, 2009, at 5:09 PM
Lumber,
Pay attention.
I do not vote an R or a D. As I have stated on here before. I have never voted a straight ticket in my life. I have campaigned for Democrats and Repulicans based on who they were and what they could do. Oh and Independants.
And I never told you I never paid attention to what the local candidates say they are going to do. As I told you, I hold to conservative values and judge candidates by what they actually do and their profile. If profiles were not important why would people even want to know what they are. The newspapers publish candidates profiles for Pete's sake. If they meant nothing, would they do this.
Try going by the candidate and his record, not what he/she says they are going to do. We're suffering a little of broken promises on the national level at this minute are we not?
Now we are down to aldermen. You know, I am not sure that I ever saw an alderman's position on Life.
Now son, if you don't understand what I just said, you need to work on your comprehension skills. I don't know how to make it any clearer to you. But quit trying to put a label on me.
And you my friend seem to have a problem with Pro Life.... would it be proper to ask, are you Pro Death? If not... disregard the question.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Oct 19, 2009, at 5:26 PM
Pay attention.
I do not vote an R or a D. As I have stated on here before. I have never voted a straight ticket in my life. I have campaigned for Democrats and Repulicans based on who they were and what they could do. Oh and Independants.
And I never told you I never paid attention to what the local candidates say they are going to do. As I told you, I hold to conservative values and judge candidates by what they actually do and their profile. If profiles were not important why would people even want to know what they are. The newspapers publish candidates profiles for Pete's sake. If they meant nothing, would they do this.
Try going by the candidate and his record, not what he/she says they are going to do. We're suffering a little of broken promises on the national level at this minute are we not?
Now we are down to aldermen. You know, I am not sure that I ever saw an alderman's position on Life.
Now son, if you don't understand what I just said, you need to work on your comprehension skills. I don't know how to make it any clearer to you. But quit trying to put a label on me.
And you my friend seem to have a problem with Pro Life.... would it be proper to ask, are you Pro Death? If not... disregard the question.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Oct 19, 2009, at 5:26 PM
Actually, I hate the terms pro-life/pro-choice. I am like you, lets just call it what it is...Abortion.
If you actually do make informed decisions like that when you vote, then I have no problems with it. You just caught me off gaurd when you said you do care if they are anti-abortion.
however, I still won't vote for a local guy who does that (and I am personally anti-abortion excetp for rape and medical reaons.). I don't trust them.
Yes, they do have those materials out there and we both know there are those who won't read them.
-- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Mon, Oct 19, 2009, at 6:50 PM
"I can recall elections and un-kept promises made over the last 5 decades."
In view of that truism, one4 ... Why the heck do we keep believing them? Wishful thinking?
"... it is more important that we send someone from the right party back to make our laws than it is to send someone who works for the common good."
Not to me ... and hopefully, not to everyone. I didn't vote for Rod Jetton his last election.
lumb ... "... tired of seeing people who are running for county positions claiming to be prolife." Guess I have to somewhat agree with that ... however, some people are so radical about one or two issues that nothing much else matters, and even local politicians know that. Believe me ...
Now, I have to admit what might be considered another personal fault ... I don't approve of abortion and several other 'social issues' ... but I won't allow those type of things to totally overshadow the things I believe are more important to our country's welfare when it comes time to vote. I do, however, take them into account in attempting to assess a hopeful politician's honesty and decency.
VERY good, Airborne!
Aw, geez ... I'm the only one who understood (or think I did) the 'crook theory.' SIGH
-- Posted by gurusmom on Mon, Oct 19, 2009, at 9:34 PM
So Wheels is pro-life because pro-choice advocates are crooks? Another laugh!
Thanks Wheels, you are prolonging my life daily!
-- Posted by Theorist on Mon, Oct 19, 2009, at 8:35 PM
Theorist,
You also may have a reading comprehension problem.
Seek counseling!
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Oct 19, 2009, at 11:54 PM
I was just wondering ... if killing a 'fetus' (a baby in the making, regardless of the 'viability' justification/excuse) ... or even a late-term actual baby ... because it's an inconvenience (disregarding the fact that the inconvenience could have been avoided by using some form of birth control), then ...
Will it someday by acceptable to kill an elderly person because he/she has become an inconvenience ... or a child who's mentally incapacitated? Suspect that there's someone somewhere who can find justification/excuse for that also.
-- Posted by gurusmom on Tue, Oct 20, 2009, at 1:11 AM
gurusmom, advance directives/DNR come to mind. An individual's choice.
-- Posted by Turnip on Tue, Oct 20, 2009, at 9:40 AM
Turnip,
Ever see Logan's Run?? People have always 'feared' the concept Gurusmom is talking about. And in history some governments have tried their hand at attempting a form of it. Most recently that comes to mind was 60 years ago. Though there are probably more current examples, just can't think of them off the top of my head at the moment.
-- Posted by Pups on Tue, Oct 20, 2009, at 9:55 AM
one4 ... That's what I prefer also ... lower taxes, smaller government ... less interference in private lives and businesses.
One of the major reasons I voted as I did was due to a speech (perhaps I just dreamed it) that indicated the candidate would go through all the budgets, programs, etc., and line-by-line start eliminating many excesses (and duplications).
One thing about state's legislatures, though ... at state levels, it's more possible to 'fight' government. On the federal level ... no way to get enough people together on any one issue.
-- Posted by gurusmom on Tue, Oct 20, 2009, at 5:28 PM
Theorist... Sweetie,
At least I have convictions and beliefs... how about you?
Not laughing, snorting or laughing out loud. Don't really find it that funny actually. More like pathetic.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Oct 20, 2009, at 9:46 PM
Wheels,
Honestly, I am sorry if I hurt your feelings.
Once again, I was accused of error, and when I proved my position, someone resorts to personal attacks.
If you can't laugh, you will end up a bitter old person. I seriously am not attacking you, just trying to get you to see more than a tunnel. I enjoy reading your perspective and it keeps me thinking. I think you are getting way too close. (By the way, I am not your sweetie! and once again, I laugh)
-- Posted by Theorist on Wed, Oct 21, 2009, at 6:10 AM
Theorist,
My feelings weren't hurt at all. I just consider an insult and where it is coming from before forming any kind of feeling.
Now so far as trying to get me to see anything your way, or trying to change me and the way I think.... let me make you aware of something.
I was married over 50 years ago. With the I do, I suddenly became aware... I did take on seven sister in laws. Six of which were dedicated to molding me like a piece of putty to suit their own vision of what I needed to be. Then of couse there was the wife with her own vision.
Scorecard:
Wife has finally given up and accepted me for who I am after reading the Serenity Prayer.
One passed away still trying.
One passed away who never tried. Bless her Soul
Two in nursing homes. No longer care.
One on oxygen. Doesn't care either
One must have also read the Serenity Prayer.
One still frustrates herself trying.
You are in the company of experts from the list above Theorist.... so you might want to consider reading the Serenity Prayer yourself. More determined people than you have tried to change me and failed.
You see Theorist, I am satisfied the way God made me, I am not up for a rework by ameteurs, some of whom might think they are God.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Wed, Oct 21, 2009, at 8:20 AM
Huh, I watched the video and didn't see any 'broken promises.' Mostly because there are still over three years left in the man's term; it's hard to judge using such a small sample size.
Some people, however, are more inclined to believe what is already decided in their heads; if you think that the absence of a scenario that fits the promise equates to a lie, that is your particular psychopathy to deal with.
-- Posted by FriendO on Wed, Oct 21, 2009, at 8:28 AM
Transparency, Friendo, Transparency.
He promised transparency in his government and we are finding his government is worse than Bush in this respect. He didn't say it would be the last day of his term either.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Wed, Oct 21, 2009, at 8:33 AM
I guess opening the visitor logs (which Bush never did) doesn't count? Perhaps they could print the pages on cellophane...
-- Posted by FriendO on Wed, Oct 21, 2009, at 9:07 AM
I haven't a clue as to what they are talking about.
-- Posted by voyager on Wed, Oct 21, 2009, at 11:30 PM
Actually, it is Have Wheels' source that is doing the lying. Yet another example of Theo Spark lying about the Obama Administration:
Wheels, since I've shown your source to be so untrustworthy, maybe you should explicitly list the alleged lies from the video, and we can discuss each one in turn, and see if your source is lying about every claim.
Just curious, Wheels, given some of your comments and behaviors, are you a creationist?
-- Posted by Ediacaran on Mon, Oct 26, 2009, at 7:08 PM
Actually, it is Have Wheels' source that is doing the lying. Yet another example of Theo Spark lying about the Obama Administration:
Wheels, since I've shown your source to be so untrustworthy, maybe you should explicitly list the alleged lies from the video, and we can discuss each one in turn, and see if your source is lying about every claim.
Just curious, Wheels, given some of your comments and behaviors, are you a creationist?
-- Posted by Ediacaran on Mon, Oct 26, 2009, at 7:08 PM
Edi,
I will be as kind as I can.
I never posted that link, you hang your hat on and don't know where you got it. Below is what I posted. If you don't believe me, kindly go to the thread at the top of this page and check it out.
So far as Theo Spark, don't know him and don't care about him. What I saw was Barrack Hussein Obama. I saw his lips. I heard words coming from the lips. Those were the same words I heard him spewing during the campasign. Just thought I would let people judge for themselves if or not Obama was fulfilling those promises and asked the question.... Should Politicians be held accountable for campaign promises?
My source really was Obama Edi, Sparks was just the medium.
You want to read and discuss each lie, have a ball, start a thread. Be my guest.
Maybe I should have said... Was that Barrack Obama speaking? Did he really say that? Has he lived up to tholse promises?
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Oct 26, 2009, at 10:53 PM
Even with the 'written word,' sometimes it seems we can hear the 'sound of silence' ...
-- Posted by gurusmom on Tue, Oct 27, 2009, at 3:33 PM
Wheels, way to build a strawman.
You posted the opening link to the Theo Spark website with the video, hence it was your source, as I indicated. You realize that you posted the initial Theo Spark link, right? I previously pointed out one of your source's lies.
The second link that I posted from Theo Spark was yet another example of your source's lies.
I never claimed that the second link from Theo Spark was the one you originally posted. Set up your strawman outside the door for Halloween, then at least learn to read for comprehension in your remaining years.
Thanks for being as kind as you could.
-- Posted by Ediacaran on Tue, Oct 27, 2009, at 6:15 PM
Edi,
I told you last night what caused me to think about posting the thread.
Here is what I said when I posted the thread "The following link made me think of just a few broken promises our President has made to us."
You don't like it.... I don't care.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Oct 27, 2009, at 8:15 PM
Menu
The following link made me think of just a few broken promises our President has made to us.
http://www.theospark.net/2009/09/video-7-lies-in-under-2-minutes.html
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