Speak Out: What is the Correct Percentage/ Amount of Taxes to Pay?

Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Feb 2, 2012, at 9:50 AM:

I was reading this article this morning on Yahoo News and was thinking of the Politicians and their rhetoric versus their actions as it concerns taxes. What Percentage of income should a Rich man pay in taxes? How about Middle America? What about Lower Income Americans? What do you have to possess, or make in income to be considered rich?

http://news.yahoo.com/democrats-love-taxes-just-dont-want-pay-them-080000610.htm...

Replies (59)

  • Good question. I think what ever the number, it should be only once, when it is earned or when it is spent.

    -- Posted by Old John on Thu, Feb 2, 2012, at 10:08 AM
  • I believe the correct amount today would be $189,000 for every man, woman and child. That would get us out of debt and kicking the can down the road. :-)

    -- Posted by not_sorry on Thu, Feb 2, 2012, at 10:18 AM
  • Looking at the 2009 tax report, there was a total Adjusted Gross Income of $7,825 billion dollars. The FY 2009 budget proposed spending of $3,100 billion, of which about $1,052 billion was Social Security and Medidare, which theoretically have their own supporting tax structure. Thus, we have a total non-SSI/Medicare budget of about $2,048 billion which, doing the math, yields a required flat-rate tax of about 26.2%.

    This discounts Corporate taxes, Excise Taxes, Estate and Gift Taxes, etc. Those were estimated in the 2009 budget to amount to about $510 billion. Deducting those, we find a required flat-tax rate of about 19.65% to balance the budget.

    The average tax rate for 2009 was 11.06%. The top 1% paid 24.01%, while the bottom 50% paid 1.85%. The total for the top 50% was 12.50%.

    http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_United_States_federal_budget

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Feb 2, 2012, at 10:25 AM
  • Zero percent Federal income tax! Return sovereignty to the States and abolish the majority of the Federal Government as we now know it. JMO

    -- Posted by GREYWOLF on Thu, Feb 2, 2012, at 10:32 AM
  • "Zero percent Federal income tax!"

    Which federal grants are you willing to give up first?

    -- Posted by good.for.the.gander.good.for.the.goose on Thu, Feb 2, 2012, at 11:22 AM
  • Latino, I am willing to give up all Federal Grants. However, I have never asked for or received any grants from our out of control Government nor will I ever. If I havn't earned it, I don't deserve it....how about you?

    -- Posted by GREYWOLF on Thu, Feb 2, 2012, at 11:49 AM
  • Theorist, I have nothing against a limited federal government. Individual income taxes in my opinion should go to the state and the state legislatures should decide how to and how much to fund the federal government. If there are to be strings attatched to the funding, let the states hold the strings.

    -- Posted by Old John on Thu, Feb 2, 2012, at 12:58 PM
  • GW said-'I have never asked for or received any grants from our out of control Government nor will I ever.'

    Did your kids attend public schools? Have you ever crossed a bridge? Bought a gallon of milk? Police protection? Hospital? etc etc etc

    There are twenty-three categories of Federal grants: transportation, education, law, consumer protection, disaster prevention and relief, business, agriculture and health.

    Other agencies that may have filed for Federal grants on your behalf: State Governments, Local Governments, City or Township Government, Special District Governments, Independent School Districts, Public and State Higher Education.

    Then there are Federal small business loans and grants. Small businesses are employ 52% of US workers and arguably the majority of USA GNP is generated by them.

    -- Posted by good.for.the.gander.good.for.the.goose on Thu, Feb 2, 2012, at 1:13 PM
  • "There are twenty-three categories of Federal grants: transportation, education, law, consumer protection, disaster prevention and relief, business, agriculture and health."

    And therin lies the problem. The big government politicians have made us dependants.... they have put us on the government teat and they know fullwell they can dangle that over our heads. Our Federal Taxes are a guaranteed overcharge based on the assumption they will give us a partial return.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Feb 2, 2012, at 2:24 PM
  • I find a bit ironic that some here do not understand my Federalist opinion. Key words here Theorist, Latino....STATES RIGHTS and SOVEREIGNTY!

    Please see "old johns" post for a better explination!

    -- Posted by GREYWOLF on Thu, Feb 2, 2012, at 2:26 PM
  • "Did your kids attend public schools?"

    People'a children went to school long before the Big Government days.... and they came out being able to read and write and were able to make change without a computerized cash register.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Feb 2, 2012, at 2:27 PM
  • Well greywolf, I hope you have no plans on visiting a National park, and we could possibly house federal prisonsers at your home I suppose. Lets just hope that we don't need a military...every man for himself right? I'd like to see how you manage that!

    -- Posted by Theorist on Thu, Feb 2, 2012, at 12:48 PM

    Theorist, is it your assumption that we were unable to do those things before the days of bloated government.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Feb 2, 2012, at 2:29 PM
  • "Then there are Federal small business loans and grants. Small businesses are employ 52% of US workers and arguably the majority of USA GNP is generated by them."

    Are you saying the government created small business?

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Feb 2, 2012, at 2:41 PM
  • Wheels: The tax code is all fouled up and needs a complete overhaul like everything else in this country right now. The tax code has everybody confused I never seen the like having all of these pages to prepare and a person cannot even understand half of it. The code needs to go in the trash can and go to one flat tax where everybody is on equal ground this includes the poor, middle class and the wealthly. The government needs to get out of the refund business. Right now the low end is not paying any tax heck they receive huge refunds back every year and are broke two days after they receive it.

    -- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Thu, Feb 2, 2012, at 4:47 PM
  • I recently heard a conversation about tax refunds. The talk was about how it is not fair to have to pay the tax people to get "our Money" back and still have to wait a week. Next the conversation drifted into a discussion of how much down and how much per week was fair for a car. "The place I'm gettin mine dont' do no credit check".

    This is a clear indication to me that we need more federal education grants. :)

    -- Posted by Old John on Thu, Feb 2, 2012, at 5:37 PM
  • because I wait until the last minute to pay my real estate taxes, I will tell you ahead of time, I paid what I owed and within the time the law says

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Feb 2, 2012, at 5:50 PM

    Same here!

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Thu, Feb 2, 2012, at 7:05 PM
  • People'a children went to school long before the Big Government days.... and they came out being able to read and write and were able to make change without a computerized cash register.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Feb 2, 2012, at 2:27 PM

    They even wrote a Declaration of Independence and a Constitution, invented a cotton gin, and a steam engine. Whoops, almost forgot electricity and air planes. How did we get to the early 1900's without federal interference in schooling?

    -- Posted by InReply on Thu, Feb 2, 2012, at 7:06 PM
  • Rick, Your idea resembles the idea of a medical expense account given to individual low income earners. Replacing the EIC with such and sending them what's left each year would encouage folks to at least ask how much it was going to cost before going to the ER or Dr for trivial reason.

    -- Posted by Old John on Thu, Feb 2, 2012, at 7:07 PM
  • 0% should be the correct amount of income taxes to pay. No one's labor and productivity should ever be taxed by any entity for any reason.

    This country grew and prospered long before the income tax came into being. No reason it can't grow and prosper without an income tax now. (Just as many states get along just fine without an income tax.)

    -- Posted by FreedomFadingFast on Thu, Feb 2, 2012, at 7:10 PM
  • Rick

    I don't disagree.

    -- Posted by FreedomFadingFast on Thu, Feb 2, 2012, at 7:36 PM
  • what about the low life cheaters working under the table

    -- Posted by Gnarls on Thu, Feb 2, 2012, at 8:33 PM
  • -- Posted by ~~Rick on Thu, Feb 2, 2012, at 7:23 PM

    Rick,

    Your arse gonna be grass and Theorist is gonna be the lawnmower if she is running true to form.

    She chastised me severely for that kind of thinking a long time back. I got the Is it "Need", Is it "Greed" and "Do you have "Pure Intentions" speech.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Feb 2, 2012, at 9:00 PM
  • Jesus said that we would always have the poor with us. We were told to tithe ten percent which went to the churches. Beggars were allowed to sit at the gates and beg alms. They were encouraged to go into the rich man's fields after the harvest to glean what leavings they could find. They were admonished not to put a new patch on old cloth. I'm sure there must be other bibical directives concerning the poor, but it's late and my thinking cap isn't working.

    We were also admonished not to covet our neighbors possessions. Obama and his crowd must have known a different Jesus.

    -- Posted by InReply on Fri, Feb 3, 2012, at 1:46 AM
  • Rick, it confuses me as well. Jesus told the parable of the three servants who were given money while the master was away. The one who kept it safe was considered not much better than the one who wasted it. The third who made a profit was considered the good and faithful servant.

    I think Obama should leave Christ and the Bible out of his political statements. After all, they have a fit if a church tries to interfere in government. They shouldn't be allowed to have it both ways.

    -- Posted by InReply on Fri, Feb 3, 2012, at 2:34 AM
  • careful clicking on links

    -- Posted by ratiocination on Fri, Feb 3, 2012, at 6:34 AM
  • "I take this to mean, care for the others..."

    A personnal obligation which one cannot delegate to government or other entities. Your obligation is not assuaged by using government to compel others do it for you.

    Mandated charity is not charitable.

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Fri, Feb 3, 2012, at 7:39 AM
  • It is very hard to help those in need other than your immediate neighbor. The government assists those of us who wish to help those overseas, and afar.

    Shapley Hunter, have you studied human nature?

    -- Posted by Reasoning on Fri, Feb 3, 2012, at 10:04 AM
  • Yes, I've studied human nature.

    There are many charities help those overseas, and afar, and permit one to give at one's own discretion, which is what the personnal mandate commands of us. With charitable giving, you can stop giving when the charity fails to live up to one's expectations. Not so, when the 'charitable' giving is mandated through taxes.

    "It is very hard to help those in need other than your immediate neighbor."

    Charity begins at home. Help your immediate neighbor who, in turn, will be able to help his. 'Pay it forward' is the popular expression.

    Demand nothing in exchange for charity, or it is not charitable. Do not demand that others be charitable; their sense of obligation may not be the same as yours You do not know another man's story; he may hide his charitable nature from others, lest they try to take advantage of his good nature. Many who appear cold-hearted may, in fact, be more charitable than yourself.

    Give of yourself, for you cannot and should not give of others.

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Fri, Feb 3, 2012, at 10:17 AM
  • -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Fri, Feb 3, 2012, at 10:17 AM

    SH,

    While I agree with that concept, it flys in the face of all that is Far Left Liberal and Big Government.

    It appears from their perspective, we are not smart enough to make those determinations. Only they have that wisdom.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Feb 3, 2012, at 10:45 AM
  • Wheels,

    I see you've studied human nature, too. ;)

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Fri, Feb 3, 2012, at 11:02 AM
  • I know folks that are viewed by those not well aquainted with them as stingy old miserly people. And yes they are very dedicated to getting all they can for each penny spent. If there is a coupon, discount, or chance to negotiate price, they always find a way to use it.

    On the other side, they are the most charitable and generous people I know. They just do it quietly and many times not expecting to see the fruits of their giving. Outside of tithing they refuse to participate in any organized charities past something such as a local bake sale or box of GS cookies.

    -- Posted by Old John on Fri, Feb 3, 2012, at 11:11 AM
  • SH,

    Not sure if I studied human nature purposely or human nature beat an understanding into me over the past some 70 years with a club.

    When you get your practical education in the school of hard knocks, you remember the lessons well, and sometimes those lessons can be a little cost prohibitive.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Feb 3, 2012, at 11:24 AM
  • "On the other side, they are the most charitable and generous people I know. They just do it quietly and many times not expecting to see the fruits of their giving."

    Old John,

    I admire those kinds of people. They know who they are.... and do not need their egos massaged by havimg praise heaped upon them for what they do.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Feb 3, 2012, at 11:30 AM
  • What happens when the outstretched hand is slapped ?

    It stings .

    It thinks twice before reaching out again .

    -- Posted by ~~Rick on Fri, Feb 3, 2012, at 11:25 AM

    Rick,

    That happens as well, and you cannot let it turn you off to all, though it is hard.

    I think the Old Chinese Proverb applies here, and on an individual basis.... Fool me once, your fault, fool me twice, my fault!

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Feb 3, 2012, at 11:34 AM
  • Rick, I'm not sure if you meant to say that they do or that they don't have enuff time to repeatedly reach out. It has been my experience that people who have had the most trouble in life or the very ones who will bend over double to lend a helping hand. And, then, there are the ones that Shapley referred to that will help quietly and without fanfare. Both kinds are what make mankind bearable.

    The governments of ALL countries often get in the way of true charity and organizations which have been set up to help those in need. They cause too much money to be spent on meeting stipulations rather than reaching the needy for whom it is intended. In organizations to which I have belonged, it is the volunteers who, if left alone, get things done.

    -- Posted by InReply on Fri, Feb 3, 2012, at 2:21 PM
  • The correct percentage, Wheels, is ZERO.

    -- Posted by voyager on Fri, Feb 3, 2012, at 3:13 PM
  • A flat across the board same percentage on all actual income or sales is the most fair tax. Problem: What is considered as income? A sales tax over taxes the poor. Tax should be like Old John says, "It should be only once, when it is earned or when it is spent." Property tax would be only once when it is bought.

    -- Posted by swift on Fri, Feb 3, 2012, at 4:25 PM
  • Swift, I suspect the greatest argument for property taxes as in real estate is the need to fund our schools. Maybe it would be better to fund schools with a sales tax in the school district first, supplemented by disperstment of a state sales tax.

    -- Posted by Old John on Fri, Feb 3, 2012, at 11:36 PM
  • "...only once, when it is earned or when it is spent..."

    That's somewhat simplistic, not to mention difficult to accomplish. For example, say I hire a company to build a fence and pay them with money I have paid tax on. When the fence company uses my "previously taxed" money to pay their employees, those individuals will still have to pay tax on their earnings, even though I already paid taxes on those dollars.

    The same is true for corporations and their share holders. The fact that corporations pay tax on their profits, does not mean that share holders should not have to pay tax on their income derived from those shares. As a matter of fact, they should be paying the same rate on their income that workers are paying for income derived from labor.

    -- Posted by commonsensematters on Sat, Feb 4, 2012, at 7:55 AM
  • -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sat, Feb 4, 2012, at 8:27 AM
  • "I feel any corporation should have a designate Tax amount pre-set to pay ahead of time to eliminate any/all loop holes after earnings ."

    Rick,

    That would be nice and simple for the corporations as well..... it would be so much simpler for them to figure out just how much to add to their overhead to cover those taxes when they produce their goods and services. Then the real payer of those taxes, the consumer covers it as a hidden tax.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sat, Feb 4, 2012, at 9:24 AM
  • "...only once, when it is earned or when it is spent..."

    Common, Under your scenario there would be no tax because people were paid to do the printing of the money and taxed on what they earned making that money already taxed. Surely you put that rebuttal together tongue in cheek.

    The corporation tax delima can be solved easily by not taxing corporations but taxing share holders earnings when they occur. That would be dividends or earnings when shares are sold for a profit. The current system taxes corporate generated earnings twice.

    -- Posted by Old John on Sat, Feb 4, 2012, at 9:45 AM
  • "Swift, I suspect the greatest argument for property taxes as in real estate is the need to fund our schools. Maybe it would be better to fund schools with a sales tax in the school district first, supplemented by disperstment of a state sales tax."- Old John

    It would be much more fair and would give more control to each school district where it belongs. The current personal property tax code here in Missouri is rather ridiculous and needs to be eliminated or changed.

    -- Posted by swift on Sat, Feb 4, 2012, at 10:11 AM
  • I've always kind of viewed Corporate taxes as taxes on the table in a poker game. The money on the table may change hands many times, but it doesn't really count as a 'win' until someone cashes in their chips.

    Of course, many people use their corporations to provide them with non-income benefits - corporate cars, corporate housing, corporate travel, which are not necessary to the operation of the corporation but merely permitted them to avoid taxation on those things. Thus, I suppose, corporate taxes are justified.

    The Corporate Income Tax, however, preceeded the individual one.

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Sat, Feb 4, 2012, at 10:12 AM
  • "The current system taxes corporate generated earnings twice."

    Of course it does because there are two entirely different entities involved. One is the corporation (which is not a "people, despite what Romney says) and the second is the shareholder. And income earned should be taxed at the same rate as labor,

    -- Posted by commonsensematters on Sat, Feb 4, 2012, at 10:12 AM
  • Common, It will take someone a lot smarter than me to come up with a viable better system of taxation but I don't think it takes much smart to know what we have is no where near the best we can do.

    Shapley, In that poker game is the pot taxed on the amount it grows each time money is added to it?

    -- Posted by Old John on Sat, Feb 4, 2012, at 10:28 AM
  • Rick, I agree in a way. We homeschooled both our children but still had to pay the personal property tax supporting public school. However, although I believe Christian parents should either homeschool their children or send them to a private school if they are able, not all can do that. Our oldest grandchild is attending kindergarten at Bell City public school. There probably is a better form of tax than personal property tax. Most states don't have personal property tax. How are their schools funded?

    -- Posted by swift on Sat, Feb 4, 2012, at 11:14 AM
  • Is Christian schooling a form of programmimg ?

    -- Posted by ~~Rick on Sat, Feb 4, 2012, at 5:27 PM

    If it is, it's the programming the parents have chosen for their kids, as opposed to the programing the gov't has chosen at public schools.

    -- Posted by FreedomFadingFast on Sat, Feb 4, 2012, at 6:02 PM
  • Theorist, I believe American parents should send their children to American universities. Does that mean I'm saying parents of children sent abroad for education are not Americans?

    -- Posted by Old John on Sat, Feb 4, 2012, at 6:18 PM
  • That's what parents do, as they should.

    -- Posted by FreedomFadingFast on Sat, Feb 4, 2012, at 8:58 PM
  • Is it a good idea to use taxes to encourage or discourage the decisions of citizens?

    If so, would a high tax on food curb obesity?

    -- Posted by Old John on Sun, Feb 5, 2012, at 1:26 AM
  • Theorist, If you can't comment on what was meant, how can you comment on what you think Swift presumed? Shall I assume you presumed that he was judging? :)

    -- Posted by Old John on Sun, Feb 5, 2012, at 9:13 AM
  • can we say borderline personality disorders

    -- Posted by chocolate thread on Sun, Feb 5, 2012, at 9:28 AM
  • Old John wrote:

    "Shapley, In that poker game is the pot taxed on the amount it grows each time money is added to it?"

    In theory, it is counted at predetermined intervals, and the tax is based on the size of the pot, if it has grown, it is taxed, if it has shrunk, it is 'credited' against prior taxes.

    That's a bit simplistic, but that is sort of the nature of the game.

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Sun, Feb 5, 2012, at 10:16 AM
  • If this was a govenment poker game, half the players would be staked by the player with the fattest pocket book and the losers would get a tax credit taken by a tax on the winner's pot. :)

    -- Posted by Old John on Sun, Feb 5, 2012, at 10:33 AM
  • Theorist, Did you read what you posted? In this part, "... I KNOW you are wrong to presume you can judge people as a Christian, by where they send their children.", you claim he presumed something. Can it be that you assumed he was lacking your standards of praise for government schooling because he thinks Christians should send their children to private schools?

    -- Posted by Old John on Sun, Feb 5, 2012, at 7:56 PM
  • Theorist, You once questioned my reading comprehension and now you're asking for me clarification?

    -- Posted by Old John on Sun, Feb 5, 2012, at 9:12 PM
  • I do know this...I gave swift a chance to clarify what he said. He contradicted himself when he said his children were sending grandchildren to a public school...

    -- Posted by Theorist on Sun, Feb 5, 2012, at 8:20 PM

    Actually his statement explained why inspite of his presumption, he recognizes that it cannot always be the case. His own grandchildren, therefore, become an example and not a contradiction.

    "However, although I believe Christian parents should either homeschool their children or send them to a private school if they are able, not all can do that."

    -- Posted by swift on Sat, Feb 4, 2012, at 11:14 AM

    -- Posted by InReply on Mon, Feb 6, 2012, at 12:54 AM
  • I don't disagree with Theorist that choice of schooling has nothing to do with choice of religion. I just didn't see that swift contradicted himself....I still don't.

    My children went to a Catholic grade school because it also offered an additional program I was interested in them having. Among their schoolmates were children of Jewish, Lebanese and African heritage. There were a number of denominations also represented. Public schools have no monopoly on diversity.

    -- Posted by InReply on Mon, Feb 6, 2012, at 8:42 PM

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