Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Aug 26, 2011, at 1:47 PM:
There has been so much repetion by Obama's supporters that hugh blocks of cyberspace are being wasted.
Therefore in the interest of going "Green" we could list them all here and number them. We can then just write No 36 and everybody will have the defense and save a lot of wasted space.
Replies (113)
For once, Wheels, I must take issue with you. There is NO defense possible for Obama. None, Nada!
Mo 36, my aunt Harriet's hatpin!
-- Posted by voyager on Fri, Aug 26, 2011, at 3:27 PM
I think you are confused a bit wheels.
Because some take issue with much of the criticism that is thrown out at Obama, doesn't mean we are defending him.
I will not be voting for Obama. With that said, I simply can't let the ignorant drone on about every piece of email/blog they come across.
For instance...See Birth Certificate.
-- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Fri, Aug 26, 2011, at 3:33 PM
Yes Lumber, if you have Obama's birth certificate.... hang onto it, do not let anybody touch it, could be worth millions in the future.
PS: If you don't want to use the number system, feel free to whine in print.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Aug 26, 2011, at 4:06 PM
Voyager,
This is for the defenders of the Messiah. I do not offer any defense of him, or most politicians for that matter. I just thought a simple numbering system would beat all of the print we have to sort through. I would seriously consider reserving Nos. 1 thru 5 for Caddy.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Aug 26, 2011, at 5:10 PM
Wheels are you turning democrat? I know many that are due to the outstanding leadership of the republican congress and know it all Eric Cantor.
-- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Fri, Aug 26, 2011, at 6:33 PM
tell us about the outstanding leadership of the democrat senate and presidency.
-- Posted by FreedomFadingFast on Fri, Aug 26, 2011, at 6:38 PM
Swamp,
I have yet to sign up as a registered Republican, and with the results I am seeing from both of these parties, it is highly unlikely that I sign up with either one. ☻ ☻ ☻ ☻
Afraid there is not going to be a party out there, in what is left of my lifetime, that will cause me to swear blind allegiance to them.
What is it a politician would say at this point, oh I remember..... I will let my record speak for itself.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Aug 26, 2011, at 6:56 PM
I really do not know Ike, that is how politically religious I am. Incidentally, Missouri is spelled with a Upper Case "M"
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Aug 26, 2011, at 7:28 PM
Spaniard, I have heard of registered republicans and democrats, card carrying so to speak all my life. What constitutes registered? Is it a subscription to the Huffington Post or Heritage Foundation literature or what?
-- Posted by Old John on Fri, Aug 26, 2011, at 9:50 PM
If you voted for Obama in 2008 to prove you were not a racist, please vote for someone else in 2012 to prove you are not an idiot!
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sat, Aug 27, 2011, at 12:06 PM
Rick,
I borrowed the thought from a billboard that I understand is up just outside Madison, Alabama. Thought it was too good not to share.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sat, Aug 27, 2011, at 12:30 PM
Wheels, Lefties have rights too ya know!
Borrowed that from a facebook buddy.
-- Posted by Old John on Sat, Aug 27, 2011, at 12:59 PM
Old John,
How about the right to take their arguments somewhere they will be appreciated?
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sat, Aug 27, 2011, at 2:06 PM
Old John,
Just realized the history lesson on the civil war started a few minutes ago in Marble Hill. And here I am sitting here in St. Charles with a terminal case of allergies, hayfever or what the "H" ever, nor did I get done what I had planned for today either.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sat, Aug 27, 2011, at 2:09 PM
#1. It is George Bush's fault.
(Thought I would get this thread on track)
-- Posted by Robert* on Sat, Aug 27, 2011, at 2:14 PM
Stnmsn8,
☺ ☺ ☺ ☺
Thank you!
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sat, Aug 27, 2011, at 2:18 PM
Wheels: One thing about it we have a lot of fun on here everybody has a different view and that is what makes america great.
-- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Sat, Aug 27, 2011, at 4:45 PM
When did we start registering ourselves in Missouri as repubs or dems? I must have missed this somewhere along the line.
-- Posted by howdydoody on Sat, Aug 27, 2011, at 5:31 PM
You two 'Dedicated Democrats' might know that.... me not dancing to a political party's tune did not think it was important enough to care. And if it was taught in a civics class I must have been absent or asleep. OK???
And maybe I didn't speak clearly enough, somehow, like Old John, I have always heard of people speaking of someone as a card carrying this or that.
One of you two geniuses want to tell us how one distinguishes himself to be of a particular party to run for office? How can I be sure Kinder is not a Democrat??
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sat, Aug 27, 2011, at 6:11 PM
Wheels: One thing about it we have a lot of fun on here everybody has a different view and that is what makes america great.
-- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Sat, Aug 27, 2011, at 4:45 PM
Swamp,
You are right on! If a person does not keep his/her humor, they might just be found floating down the creek beside a sack of cats,
Probably catch hell for using that example from somebody, but it won't be the first time.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sat, Aug 27, 2011, at 6:15 PM
Since I am on a roll, I might as well post Rule #2. It would be as follows:
#2. If it is not George Bush's fault... refer back to Rule #1
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sat, Aug 27, 2011, at 6:18 PM
Wheels,
Perhaps Spaniard can mark down one point over Wheels on the subject of political trivia.
In the state of Missouri we do not register as members of a certain political party. We have the right to ask for the ballot of our choice when voting in primary elections.
-- Posted by Robert* on Sat, Aug 27, 2011, at 6:20 PM
Stnmsn8
If I would have had to declare, I would have either told them it was none of their business how I vote or declared as an Independant. Yes I am aware of the requirement to choose a party ballot in a primary and have on different occasions chosen different parties, and for different reasons. At times because there was a candidate that I wanted to see win and at others because there was a candidate that I wanted to try and make sure never got into political office.
If there was a Presidential Primary in 2012 and there was a Democrat opposing Obama, I would definitely choose a Democratic Ballot. I will let you be the judge for my reason.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sat, Aug 27, 2011, at 6:33 PM
I would do the same, Wheels. Over a period of many years I have known democrats I could have supported as candidates for President but they could never get past the primary. It seems that a democrat must sell his soul to certain interest groups in order to gain support on a national ticket. That does not seem necessary on a state ticket.
-- Posted by Robert* on Sat, Aug 27, 2011, at 6:46 PM
He is a hypocrit...therefore he cannot possibly be a democrat. LOL
-- Posted by howdydoody on Sat, Aug 27, 2011, at 6:47 PM
Stnmsn8
I don't know if we are going to get anymore defenses of Obama or not. These Dedicated Democrats like to make noises but they are very reluctant lately to defend Obama.
In my post a few minutes ago, I made an error... I stated those were "Rules", sorry. They are Excuses/Defenses for Obama. Probably those two are enough anyway.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sat, Aug 27, 2011, at 6:57 PM
Missour-ah Rick!
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sat, Aug 27, 2011, at 7:31 PM
Silly ... I was thinking during the last election that it would be great if all the candidates were listed on the same ballot ... no party affiliation, etc. Due to wanting to vote for someone other than a candidate on the Dem or Rep ballot meant not being allowed to vote for several other candidates for other positions.
Did I explain that well enough to be understood? ~sigh~ Ah well ... we seem to be pretty much a party-oriented populace, don't we?
Missouree, Rick! When have you ever seen an 'I' that sounds like an 'A?'
-- Posted by gurusmom on Sat, Aug 27, 2011, at 7:54 PM
Something along the lines of an old joke - it's Missou-rah.
After all, the gifted students at the state's namesake university would sound like total cheese-heads and hoosiers if they were to cheer their sports teams on with 'Missou-REE, REE, REE' instead of the more appropriate 'Missou-RAH, RAH, RAH'.
Also provides for a way to tell whether people are from around here or not - much like those who say ad-VANCE, o-RAN, New Muh-DRID, or Cape Jee-ar-doo.
IMO, Missou-ree belongs to those north of I-70. :-)~
-- Posted by fxpwt on Sat, Aug 27, 2011, at 8:09 PM
How do you pronounce "Cairo" Illinois? We used to say "cay-ro".
-- Posted by not_sorry on Sat, Aug 27, 2011, at 8:38 PM
Cay-ro - survey sez - errrrnt, IMO of course. :-)
The Olive Branch locals I used to hang around with called it 'care-o'
Had the chuckle when Cape Central played Cairo in basketball back in my old high school days - the pom-pom squad had pep flyers out about shooting down the Pilots with planes and what-not depicted.
Eh, did anyone ever stop to think that with two rivers going by - the pilots might be water-based instead of air-based? :-)
-- Posted by fxpwt on Sat, Aug 27, 2011, at 8:53 PM
There are some good republicans that stay in the middle of the road but this bunch in there now get plain stupid.
-- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Sat, Aug 27, 2011, at 9:33 PM
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sat, Aug 27, 2011, at 10:20 PM
Dems make a point to know about voter registration so they can cross over to vote for republicans most likely to be beaten.
Wheels, I don't know how anyone can get ruh out ri. At least everyone knows it the Missour ee river you live by, not the Missour uh. How long you been up there now? :) Maybe you should get out more, maybe Be Lox e, or Bil lux e.
A few yeas back I was caught in a severe storm on the highway. The emergency broadcast I heard said a tornado was heading toward Pucker hole, I do well, Kind are and Air-UBB.
-- Posted by Old John on Sat, Aug 27, 2011, at 11:57 PM
How do you pronounce "Cairo" Illinois? We used to say "cay-ro".
-- Posted by Dug on Sat, Aug 27, 2011, at 8:38 PM
It is definitely Care-o
-- Posted by InReply on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 12:07 AM
Wheels, I don't know how anyone can get ruh out ri. At least everyone knows it the Missour ee river you live by, not the Missour uh. How long you been up there now? :) Maybe you should get out more, maybe Be Lox e, or Bil lux e.
A few yeas back I was caught in a severe storm on the highway. The emergency broadcast I heard said a tornado was heading toward Pucker hole, I do well, Kind are and Air-UBB.
-- Posted by Old John on Sat, Aug 27, 2011, at 11:57 PM
Old John,
Where my folks come from you would be Old Jan, pronounce Yann. You come a little deeper north into Bollinger County by a couple of miles and I can teach you all kinds of new pronuciations. van de Ven is pronounced as Fon a Fen, Holweg is pronounced as Holloway, Brauer is pronounced as Bruer or if said real fast Brrrrrrrr, Brands is pronounced Brontz. I could go on, but to answer your question, I been livin here on the Missourah nigh onto 50 years I guess.
I expected if that had been me that Emergency Broadcaster came across to his description of what it was about to hit would have been very close to accurate.
To clarify a couple of other descriptions, definitely Care-o or maybe Karo and Bill Oxe E.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 12:32 AM
Old Yann,
You ever been to Peculiar or Climax Springs? I remember a couple of years back in the Lake Paper, Climax Springs had the first baby born in the county on New Years day of that year.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 12:37 AM
Wheels, Back longer than I care to admit, I was in a class where on the first day the instuctor read each attendee's name and gave a brief description of where the name originated and the different pronuciations. I have been interested in such ever since. Many of the names of neighbors when I was a child, I find out later were mispronounced so much that the folks simply went along and mispronounced there own names to conform.
Never been to Peculiar although I might fit right in. Is Climax Springs a bed and breakfast place?
-- Posted by Old John on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 1:04 AM
Old John,
Peculiar is over on the west side of the State somewhere close to Harrisonville, I think, been through there years ago. Climax Springs is not a bed and breakfast... although that would be a heck of a promotional idea. It is located somewhere a little South West or West, whatever of the Lake of the Ozarks.
And yes names and their pronuciations and mispronuciations are fun to deal with. Having had my distant relative from Holland here late last summer through winter I was able to work on a few of them. She was very particular about the spellings and pronuciations and understood well where we went astray from our origins here in this country, since she lived 12 years in London and spoke a lot better English than I do. I will never figure it all out. There are a lot of double a's in their names and the van's and the de's and der's between maybe a van and their last name. A fictious example might be van der Booven, where you would go to their phone book and look it up under Booven. But after a hundred or so years over here you might find it written Vanderbooven, or Van Der Booven or van der Booven. Some names you can really get your tongue wrapped around. Kind of leaves a pleasant after taste just saying them.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 1:57 AM
Not hearing any more defenses of Obama, even by his staunchest defenders, which I have to assume they have none, I will summerize and post the two defenses we have.
The Obama Defenses Are:
#1. It is George Bush's fault.
#2. If it is not George Bush's fault... refer back to #1.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 10:58 AM
I'm trying, Wheels! I know there's something ... just can't get my mind wrapped around it yet.
Still, seems like there are some posters on the Missourian who could have come up with something by now.
-- Posted by gurusmom on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 4:38 PM
Mom,
Actually I believe these two will pretty much cover everything. ☺ ☺ ☺ ☺ It's probably all his defenders need to justify his every action.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 5:11 PM
Totally missing my point once again.
I bring up the birth certificate and instead of being adults, you want to attack me.
Does people's ignorance over an issue bother them so much?
Again, the birth certificate...People were blaming Obama. Obama doesn't issue birth certificates. States do. If this was a serious issue, blame your congressman, blame the government for not having a standardized identification system. Don't blame the recipient of the state issued document.
If anything, the Obama situation brought this to light. However, nothing ever got addressed because nobody actually cared (except me) about the real issue. They just wanted to wine about Obama.
-- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 11:33 AM
Something else I want to know...Had Obama been born 2 years earlier...could he have been president? Hawaii wasn't a state then.
Can somebody from Puerto Rico be president?
Just things I am curious about.
-- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 11:35 AM
here ya go lumbrgfktr,
According to an April 2000 report by the Congressional Research Service , most constitutional scholars interpret the natural born citizen clause as to include citizens born outside the United States to parents who are U.S. citizens. This same CRS report also asserts that citizens born in the District of Columbia, Guam, Puerto Rico, and the U.S. Virgin Islands are legally defined as "natural born" citizens and are, therefore, also eligible to be elected President. Gabriel J. Chin, Professor of Law at the University of Arizona, however, believes under the current law not all persons born outside of the United States to U.S. citizen parents are eligible to serve under the natural born citizen clause.
-- Posted by Joe Dirte on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 12:16 PM
Obama is not the first candidate to have questions arise about citizenship.
Some suspected President Chester A Arthur was born in Canada.
Barry Goldwater, was born in 1909 in Arizona which was still a territory, not a state.
George Romney, Mitt Romney's father, who ran for the Republican party nomination in 1968, was born in Mexico to U.S. parents. Romney's grandfather had emigrated to Mexico in 1886 with his three wives and children after Utah outlawed polygamy. Romney's monogamous parents retained their U.S. citizenship and returned to the United States with him in 1912.
John McCain was born at Coco Solo Naval Air Station in the Panama Canal Zone.
-- Posted by Joe Dirte on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 12:27 PM
-- Posted by Joe Dirte on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 12:27 PM
Good stuff. I have wondered about that.
thanks,
-- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 1:56 PM
i am sorry..i did not realize my post was that insensitive
BTW , are you aware the entire Hawaii chain of Islands are not part of the State of Hawaii ?
i know it makes no difference , just thought i'd throw it out there..
-- Posted by Rick ** on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 1:44 PM
I did not know that.
Thanks.
Also, why does Hawaii have interstates?
-- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 1:58 PM
I suppose I may come off as insensitive at times. Maybe I am but I assure you it is unintentional. I prefer to be blunt about my thoughts and let the chips fall where they may.
So far as the birth certificate issue is concerned? I feel it was a manufactured issue. Mr. Obama chose not to reveal it and used the issue as a clever political ploy to evade the real issues. Those who fell into his trap caused much time and energy to be expended on an issue which created sympathy for Mr. Obama. Personal attacks on popular candidates cause a groundswell of support by their followers, a similar groundswell by the opposition, and seldom persuade those who are on the fence.
-- Posted by Robert* on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 2:02 PM
-- Posted by stnmsn8 on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 2:02 PM
I agree with that 100%. I also thought it took away from real issues, which was part of my point. Instead of discussing the stimulus and healthcare, too much focus was on a birth certificate. Why would the administration try to stop that?
Even many of the talk radio personalities finally saw that, but after it was much too late. After opening pandora's box.
-- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 2:24 PM
oh i just know these fools have not brought up that stupid birth certificate thing again....oh [leeeeze!!!!
-- Posted by cadillacman on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 2:09 PM
Actually, I brought it up.
I think the birth certificate issue was a crock. Does that make me a fool?
-- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 2:37 PM
-- Posted by cadillacman on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 2:16 PM
And you should be waiting. The eltection is over a year away.
-- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 2:38 PM
I think the Birth Certificate was a legitimate issue when it was first brought up - every candidate needs to prove he/she meets the requirements to be President.
However, once the birth certificate was revealed, that should have been the end of the issue. All the 'forged document' and 'no raised stamp' nonsense, followed by the fake Kenyan certificate were just a distraction. I'm not sure which side was responsible - the right trying to keep the issue alive or the left trying to keep the 'birther' issue going in order to discredit their opponents. Probably a little of both.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 2:44 PM
I think the Birth Certificate was a legitimate issue when it was first brought up - every candidate needs to prove he/she meets the requirements to be President.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 2:44 PM
Agree with your second paragraph, so I didn't copy it.
However, I disagree with your original paragraph. It was never really a "legitimate" issue. He made it available before he was elected. He was verified as a US citizen by multiple government agencies. Even made a scan available. Had he not been verified, or failed to produce it, then it should have been an issue.
If you do it correctly and to the letter of the law, why was it an issue?
Why was their not similar outcry over McCain who was actually born oversees?
-- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 2:57 PM
I am saying it was an issue prior to the verification. I thought that was clear.
"Why was their not similar outcry over McCain who was actually born oversees?"
It was. Several States challenged his eligibility. The court threw it out, citing a prior case that ruled that persons born to U.S. citizens residing in U.S. territories were 'natural born citizens' under the law.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 3:08 PM
Lumber #2.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 3:14 PM
I am saying it was an issue prior to the verification. I thought that was clear.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 3:08 PM
In that case I agree.
-- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 3:33 PM
Lumber #2.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 3:14 PM
?
-- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 3:33 PM
Dems are grabbing at straws. The best thing that could happen to them is Obama bowing out.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 3:40 PM
?
-- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 3:33 PM
The Obama Defenses Are:
#1. It is George Bush's fault.
#2. If it is not George Bush's fault... refer back to #1.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 3:50 PM
Rick,
Is Caddy speaking in riddles again?
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 4:27 PM
Does anybody remember Donald Trump saying he had investigators in Hawaii looking into the birther issue? I remember it vividly. I wonder what ever became of their findings. Donald said "You won't believe what they are discovering". Anybody ever hear what they discovered?
-- Posted by howdydoody on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 4:35 PM
Howdy
I think he found that Obama wasn't born at all. He further discovered that Obama is the result of a cloning experiment that got out of control.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 4:43 PM
Actually Obama is a space alien come down here to sell your children cigarettes!
-- Posted by Old John on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 4:59 PM
Wheels & OJ: I appreciate your sense of humor but I am asking a serious question. I just thought of all the bragging Trump did that I may have missed something about the birth issue. Seriously, do you guys know anything about Trump's investigation.
-- Posted by howdydoody on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 5:14 PM
Howdy,
I know nothing but I think Old John does, but he won't even tell me.
No seriously, I know nothing and I don't care for Trump anyway, he toots his own horn way too much to suit me.
PS: I think he is a Democrat anyway.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 5:19 PM
I haven't spoken to Trump lately, I did have a couple of phone calls from callers unknown recently.
Howdy, I'll let you know if he calls. In the mean time if your phone doesn't ring, that'll be me!
-- Posted by Old John on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 5:34 PM
When Trump tired of the silliness and dropped out of politics that investigation went with him. Now if he decides to reenter the race............
-- Posted by Robert* on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 7:00 PM
Seriously, do you guys know anything about Trump's investigation.
-- Posted by howdydoody on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 5:14 PM
See... You don't even keep up. You can easily look it up on google.
Obama hadn't produced anything. What trump did was make Obama show his hand then instead of during the election season. Smart move by Trump.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 8:46 PM
Well thanks for this, stnm: " I feel it was a manufactured issue. Mr. Obama chose not to reveal it and used the issue as a clever political ploy to evade the real issues." Thought I was the only one who suspected that ... figuring if nothing else, somewhere along the line of politics, it would have been checked out and verified by someone ... Agree with lumbr somewhat ... some of the media's 'talking heads' focused on things like that, instead of on the things we probably NEEDED to know ... like some of his voting records, which might have proven how very liberal he actually was while he was lauding the idea of 'working together' ... like the turn-around favoring the recent debt ceiling raise after having voted against it as a senator?
Read that Obama has another illegal relative living in the US: his uncle, brother of the aunt who had been here for years illegally (and was given citizenship this past year or so).
Found this a while ago: Thought some might like to read it ... Obama's three big mistakes
And now I hear there's a 5% federal sales tax being considered? Is there any stopping point to how much our government(s) believe they can take from us ... All the while continuing to find more things to spend on?
-- Posted by gurusmom on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 10:40 PM
"Obama might actually pull out re-election. I think at this point his odds are 50/50. If he does win next year, the Glenn Beck-Limbaugh-Bachmann-Palin branch of the GOP will be partly to blame."
More than a year before the election, and Spaniard already knows who to blame for the results. Amazing.
His hatred of 'the right' will be his undoing.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 8:44 AM
I don't minimize the difficulty of the situation Obama faced in 2009. Maybe no president could have been equal to the crisis. But let's not pretend that the right choices were made in those critical months. They were not, and the country is now suffering the consequences.
-- Posted by Rick ** on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 6:43 AM
This is getting really weird. I am agreeing with alot of what you are posting...Not a good sign with 2012 approaching.
-- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 8:53 AM
Obama might actually pull out re-election. I think at this point his odds are 50/50. If he does win next year, the Glenn Beck-Limbaugh-Bachmann-Palin branch of the GOP will be partly to blame.
-- Posted by Spaniard on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 8:29 AM
I am not sure about that. I think the Tea party was kind of a wake up call to the Republican Party. I see them going with a younger, less tarnished candidate.
-- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 8:55 AM
"I am not sure about that. I think the Tea party was kind of a wake up call to the Republican Party. I see them going with a younger, less tarnished candidate."
I'm not so sure. I think the party regulars will try to retain power by dressing up one of their traditional candidates in new clothes. The Tea Party will likely rally behind a new face, and the two will duke it out in the primary races. It could get bloody. The party regulars will not want to relinquish power to the mob quietly.
It is the responsibility of the voters (as is always the case) to see the rhetoric and ensure that the candidate they are choosing is true to his word. Methinks all the Republican candidates will pander to the Tea Party to one degree or another, while simultaneously attacking the Tea Party's selection as 'too radical'. Divide and conquer will the strategy.
These are radical times. Methinks a little radicalism is called for.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 9:11 AM
Sorry, I meant to say 'see through the rhetoric'. The curse of typing too fast...
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 9:21 AM
'Crawdad syndrome' is the tendency of crawdads, when placed in a bucket, to keep pulling each other to the bottom of the bucket if one attempts to climb higher than the rest.
This is what we see in the primary contest. As soon as one candidate begins to move higher in the polls than the rest, the ones in the bottom of the bucket begin to pull at the leader to drag them down. This is what our process has become - it's not 'vote for me because me position is the best', it's become 'vote for me because I'm not a radical, lying philanderer like my opponent here'. I suppose it is usually thus.
Right now, Rick Perry is the top crawdad, so they others are snipping at him and trying to drag him down to their level. Earlier, it was Michelle Bachmann trying to get out of the bucket, who followed Mitt Romney and Sarah Palin.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 9:31 AM
"Obama is no fool in politics and he is smart and still has strong backing"
-- Posted by cadillacman on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 2:29 PM
I couldn't agree more. Obama is no fool and smart in POLITICS. We're finding out it takes much more than campaign slogans and smart politics - like sneaking in a health care takover in the middle of the night - to run the most powerful country in the world.
Jimmy Carter wasn't a slick politician but he had more substance, vision and character in his pinky than this guy.
As for the "strong backing" - I don't understand why African Americans back him. They have suffered economically much, much worse than latinos or whites since he has become president. Their personal wealth has plummeted more than any group since he was elected. MUCH worse. Why would they support him?
-- Posted by not_sorry on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 2:50 PM
"the field against him is pathetic as far as having an agenda."
Caddy, don't you think that pretty much puts them on an equal footing with Obama? He has not shown us that he has an agenda for fixing the problems he promised to fix in the last election. Why should we trust him with another 4 years.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 7:50 PM
Cadillac, Have looked into Herman Cain?
And as far as no one challenging Obama with any agenda, Americans may be a little skittish of polititions with agendas after four years of your guy.
-- Posted by Old John on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 8:04 PM
Spaniard wrote:
"I never claimed to "know" the elections results."
I didn't say you knew the results, I said you knew who to blame.
There is more than a year before the election, a lot can happen, for good or ill. The economy may improve, Afghanistan may stabilize, Iraq may destabilize, There may be another 9/11, there may be another Katrina, the Mayans may be right, who knows what will happen. Yet, already, you've determined that 'the right' will be to blame.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 8:25 PM
Spaniard:
Last week a committee of businessmen told the House Ways & Means Committee, which is trying to draft a tax bill, that it should.
Their proposal was important. It represented a growing body of U.S. opinion, which feels that only with the help of a national sales tax can the U.S. finance its rearmament program and remain economically sound.
A 5% tax on this broad base would yield $6.5 billion a year.
The Administration has asked for stiff (20%-25%) excise taxes on such things as autos, refrigerators and television sets (TIME, Feb. 12). But those sources, said Henderson, just won't produce the revenue needed, since sales of such durable goods are bound to drop as the defense program nips off their production. Buying will shift to such "soft" goods as clothing, and unless there is a sales tax on such items the Government will not get the revenue it expects.
Not sure why I ended up with all these 'links' by just copying one ...
Seems they might be proposing the sales tax and considerning eliminating Income Tax/IRS ... but that I'd believe only if I saw it. Like the Fair Tax proposals, there would still have to be a huge 'department' to oversee/govern the taxation. Hope my ailing refrigerator goes ahead and dies it's slow death before someone decides to approve such a stiff tax on a new one! ☻
-- Posted by gurusmom on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 9:18 PM
Mom
The tax to worry about is the VAT. There are rumblings about it again. That is a direct hit for the poor and middle class.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 9:44 PM
Hope my ailing refrigerator goes ahead and dies it's slow death before someone decides to approve such a stiff tax on a new one! ☻
-- Posted by gurusmom on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 9:18 PM
Mom, maybe you better think about Euthanizing it so you can buy a new one. If you cannot bear to put it down, maybe I can find someone to help you.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 10:09 PM
I think it might have the flu or a virus ... This morning the inside temp was almost 70! An hour later, put the thermometer in & it was 40. Gee, it's only 9 years old, for Pete's sake! I know a few who are still running their old 1950's fridges (mainly for beer/soda pop).
Problem always is ... what the heck does one do with a dead appliance like that?
Never, ever liked the idea of VAT, Regret;not sure I remember now exactly how it was expected to 'work.'
It's been my firm belief that WE know better how to handle our own money (or that of the government's) than our politicians do ... so smaller taxation might help more than new 'programs' coming out of govt. My wierd way of looking at all the 'stimulus' money that's been given out the past few years is that it should have been divided among all the adult citizens ... not given to ... whatever. Couldn't we have been 'stimulating' businesses, etc., by actually buying things with that money?
Guess I just don't really know enough to be saying anything, anyway.
-- Posted by gurusmom on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 11:52 PM
and printing money at the Fed is an indirect form of taxation which decreases the value of our money and raises our cost of living through inflation.
-- Posted by Robert* on Wed, Aug 31, 2011, at 7:39 AM
Gurusmom,
The best explination of have seen of Vat tax is that taxes are levied at every step of the product, from raw material, all the way through the end consumer.
Example:
Without any tax a widget manufacturer spends 1.00 on raw materials and uses them to make a widget.
The widget is sold wholesale to a widget retailer for 1.20, making a gross margin of 0.20
The widget retailer then sells the widget to a widget consumer for 1.50, making a gross margin of 0.30
With U.S. state sales tax With a 10% sales tax:
The manufacturer pays $1.00 for the raw materials, certifying it is not a final consumer.
The manufacturer charges the retailer $1.20, checking that the retailer is not a consumer, leaving the same gross margin of $0.20.
The retailer charges the consumer $1.50 + ($1.50 x 10%) = $1.65 and pays the government $0.15, leaving the gross margin of $0.30.
With a value added tax With a 10% VAT:
The manufacturer pays $1.10 ($1 + ($1 x 10%)) for the raw materials, and the seller of the raw materials pays the government $0.10.
The manufacturer charges the retailer $1.32 ($1.20 + ($1.20 x 10%)) and pays the government $0.02 ($0.12 minus $0.10), leaving the same gross margin of $0.20. ($1.32 - $0.02 - $1.10 = $0.20)
The retailer charges the consumer $1.65 ($1.50 + ($1.50 x 10%)) and pays the government $0.03 ($0.15 minus $0.12), leaving the same gross margin of $0.30 ($1.65 - $0.03 - $1.32 = $0.30).
The manufacturer and retailer realize less gross margin from a percentage perspective
-- Posted by Joe Dirte on Wed, Aug 31, 2011, at 8:27 AM
Cadillac,
If anyone is going to oppose Obama for the nomination of the democrat party the decision must be made soon. Each of the states have a deadline for entering the race because ballots must be printed. In order to have a realistic chance of being the democrat nominee a candidate will need to be on the ballot in every primary.
If you haven't heard any agenda or plan proposed by the republican candidates it is because you have not been paying attention to them.
-- Posted by Robert* on Wed, Aug 31, 2011, at 11:47 AM
Per Time Magazine's latest issue...
During the President Bush administration, Saddam was deposed at a cost of about $1 trillion, and about 5000 American troops' lives.
During the President Obama administration Gaddafi is being deposed at a cost of about $1 billion, and 0 US lives.
Who needs to be defended?
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Wed, Aug 31, 2011, at 8:26 PM
Saddam had the 3rd largest army in the world and Qaddafi had 3 goats and 4 AK-47's.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Wed, Aug 31, 2011, at 8:41 PM
Common, You must have had a long wait in the Dr.'s office. :)
-- Posted by Old John on Wed, Aug 31, 2011, at 8:44 PM
Not near as long as it will be after Obamacare kicks in.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Wed, Aug 31, 2011, at 9:01 PM
Common,
#1.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Wed, Aug 31, 2011, at 9:20 PM
One might consider the direction of flow in the run off of the spring thaw.
-- Posted by Old John on Wed, Aug 31, 2011, at 9:21 PM
Commonsense,
I expect that when the dust settles in Iraq and Libya it will not be favorable for us.
"Who needs to be defended?"
We do........particularly on our southern border.
-- Posted by Robert* on Wed, Aug 31, 2011, at 9:29 PM
Make all of the excuses and silly comments you want.
It still does not alter the facts.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Wed, Aug 31, 2011, at 9:45 PM
Obama got Bin Laden too. All at the cost of the American dream for millions of US citizens.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Wed, Aug 31, 2011, at 10:07 PM
It still does not alter the facts.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Wed, Aug 31, 2011, at 9:45 PM
Fact: Richard Nixon was president when the first man landed on the moon. Fiction: This was all due to Nixons commitment to the space program.
See how that works?
Fact: Obama is president - not Bush. (that seems to be a hard one for many democrats). Fact: Obama has us in a 3rd war and is leading in 2 other wars. Fact: This month was the deadliest month in Afghanistan for American troops and nearly 2/3 of the total deaths have occurred under Obama.
Now, what excuse would you make for those facts? More dead under Obama than Bush???
-- Posted by not_sorry on Wed, Aug 31, 2011, at 10:30 PM
Johnson escalated the Vietnam war to full throttle and Nixon shut it down.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Wed, Aug 31, 2011, at 11:04 PM
I thought Obama was bringing our boys home? I mean he got the Nobel Peace Prize, which forever diluted its true meaning.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Wed, Aug 31, 2011, at 11:07 PM
It yet remains to be seen if we can exit Iraq and Afghanistan cleanly. I remember the helicopters lifting the last troops out of Vietnam, the South Vietnamese who had supported and depended upon us for years, and the bloodbath that followed our exit.
When a country declares victory and pulls its troops out while the 'enemy' is still functional and still armed anything can happen.
-- Posted by Robert* on Wed, Aug 31, 2011, at 11:16 PM
President Obama "has us in a 3rd war and is leading in 2 other wars."
I would hardly call the US role in the conflict in Libya a "war." And we are on the way out of Iraq (as a matter of fact, last month was the first since the start, that no US soldiers were killed there.) As for Afghanistan, to put it bluntly, we are now still cleaning up the mess that was left.
Under 2 successive administrations 2 dictators were deposed. The first cost the US taxpayers $1 trillion and 5000 American lives. The second cost 1/1000 as much, or $1 billion, and no US lives.
I leave it to anyone with a modicum of common sense to decide which leader was more effective.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Thu, Sep 1, 2011, at 10:17 AM
Common,
#1.
#1.
#2.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Sep 1, 2011, at 10:26 AM
-- Posted by Old John on Thu, Sep 1, 2011, at 11:33 AM
"my question : at what point will the responsibilities to correct permanent problems be Mr.Obama's and not Bush the Second , Mr.Clinton , Bush the First , and Ronald Reagan ."
Rick,
I believe the answer is #2.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Sep 1, 2011, at 12:52 PM
George Bush must have been a very powerful person to have such a great influence on everything.
Mr. Obama is in the same position as Mr. Bush was. If the position gives the power, I expect Mr. Obama to greatly influence our economy. After 2 1/2 years it is long past time for him to do so.
Of course, if Mr. Obama is merely a weak man in a prominent position I expect that Mr. Bush will continue to catch the blame for all our country's problems.
#2 Wheels
-- Posted by Robert* on Thu, Sep 1, 2011, at 1:13 PM
"...the responsibilities to correct permanent problems..."
There is no doubt that President Obama has and accepts the responsibility to correct "permanent" problems. Part of the process to correct problems is recognizing how and when they were created.
Acknowledging that the problems in Iraq stemmed from the President Bush administration , is not an abdication by President Obama of the mission of fixing them.
The only individuals that seem to be obsessed with this "blame game" are those who appear to believe that the nation and the economy were in perfect condition on the day President Bush left office, and that all of these "permanent" problems were instantaneously created by President Obama on the following day.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Thu, Sep 1, 2011, at 3:10 PM
common - you ignore the presidents words in his campaign. "On day one of my presidency I will begin to withdraw from Iraq. Our troops will be home by May 31st."
This was his promise in a democrat debate in 2008. You voted for him on that promise and now defend him in 2011. Where's the "common sense" in that?
Common says "part of the process to correct problems is recognizing how and when they were created". The only part of the process you are concerned about is blaming Bush. That's it. Why don't you focus on Obama's promise to be out of Iraq on May 31st of 2009? Either he's incompetent or he lied. Which is it?
-- Posted by not_sorry on Thu, Sep 1, 2011, at 3:24 PM
"The only individuals that seem to be obsessed with this "blame game" are those who appear to believe that the nation and the economy were in perfect condition on the day President Bush left office, and that all of these "permanent" problems were instantaneously created by President Obama on the following day."
I'm not aware of anyone who does that. I do see some who hold Mr. Obama's promises against him.
He promised that, if the stimulus was passed, unemployement wouldn't drop below 8%. Instead, it went over 10%, which was higher than his own research indicated it would reach without the stimulus. Why, then, is it unreasonable to question whether we would have been better off without the stimulus?
Mr. Biden then told us that everybody 'guessed wrong' about unemployment. Is that all it was, a 'guess'? Methinks, before they spent three-quarters of a trillion dollars we didn't have, they would have something better than a 'guess'. But such is not the case.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Sep 1, 2011, at 3:31 PM
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Sep 1, 2011, at 3:33 PM
Obama is an idiot! Plain and simple. How can you defend a man who keeps running our country further into the ground and debt! Hopefully anybody who voted for him has wised up and won't make the same mistake twice!!
-- Posted by footballfan29 on Tue, Sep 6, 2011, at 12:56 PM
Husker,
Methinks you may not have read more than the title line.
Might want to check a little further and check out #1 and #2 as the defences of Obama.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Sep 6, 2011, at 1:00 PM
There is no doubt that the cause of today's economic situation can be blamed on many people. Members of both political parties made decisions which put the interests of their particular supporters ahead of the national interest. Enough said about that. It is a fact.
My beef with President Obama goes back to two basic things; it really has nothing to do with the causes.
#1. He did not take the economic situation seriously; but used the plurality of his election to focus government's attention on taking over healthcare. After passing the stimulus program he thought he could ignore the economy and it would take care of itself.
#2. When his grand stimulus plan did not work he was not able to admit to himself or to anyone else that maybe it did not work because it was the wrong thing to do. Therefore all he can do is push for more of the same. (definition of insanity-continuing to do the same thing while expecting different results)
You will notice that Mr. Obama has a two-pronged attack. He wants to increase regulations and taxes on the private sector while he increases government spending on sectors of the economy where his political supporters dominate.
-- Posted by Robert* on Tue, Sep 6, 2011, at 1:19 PM
"Part of the process to correct problems is to recognize how and when they were created."
That statement is very true. And any person who ignores the root cause of a problem can spend much time, effort, and money attempting to solve that problem without showing any results. Take for example this:
"Fannie Mae has expanded home ownership for millions of families in the 1990's by reducing down payment requirements," said Franklin D. Raines, Fannie Mae's chairman and chief executive officer. "Yet there remain too many borrowers whose credit is just a notch below what our underwriting has required who have been relegated to paying significantly higher mortgage rates in the so-called subprime market."
The last paragraph of the article warned that Fannie Mae was entering a riskier section of the housing market which might lead to a government bailout if the economy ever faltered!
Commonsense was correct! We cannot blame all on President Obama. The New York Times recognized in 1999 that Fannie Mae's loans were becoming riskier. During President Bush's term in office Congressional hearings were held concerning Fannie Mae. President Bush proposed more strictly regulating Fannie Mae but democrat opposition in Congress led by Barney Frank made by this impossible.
And who is still in office, thanks to gullible voters and special interest support? Barney Frank! No, commonsense, I am not picking on President Obama but I am pointing out the continuance of government policies which are bleeding the taxpayers dry and if continued will result in the ultimate demise of these United States.
-- Posted by Robert* on Wed, Sep 7, 2011, at 8:11 AM
Menu
There has been so much repetion by Obama's supporters that hugh blocks of cyberspace are being wasted.
Therefore in the interest of going "Green" we could list them all here and number them. We can then just write No 36 and everybody will have the defense and save a lot of wasted space.
Replies (113)