Speak Out: USPS as UHC - a wise analogy

Replies (19)

• lumpy,

  We would be lucky if UHC only performed as badly as the USPS.

  I suspect we are slowly - well maybe not so slowly - moving toward a European style of socialism.

  It seems that all too many of us are not only willing, but expecting the goverment to provide for us from cradle to grave.

  -- Posted by justbob on Wed, Aug 12, 2009, at 8:06 AM

• Didn't the USPS annouce another stamp rate increas? Did they not also annouce that they would be closing 700+ offices becaus of funding and lack of use?

  And she and the Prez use the USPS as a example? Sounds to me like the USPS is on the way out thanks to UPS,Fed ex and E-mail.

  -- Posted by Airborne 95B on Wed, Aug 12, 2009, at 9:57 AM

• The Post Office performs so well, that during my winter visits to a warmer climate, I have my mail gathered up and shipped to me by UPS once a week.

  Forwarding was such a disaster the winter I tried it that I will never use that service again.

  -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Wed, Aug 12, 2009, at 10:17 AM

• JustBob you have it right:

  "I suspect we are slowly - well maybe not so slowly - moving toward a European style of socialism."

  And if you pay attention to what is happening in Europe with France and Germany this is exactly the type of thing that they are moving away from.

  Europe was the "sandbox" and it has failed to the point of "facepalm" status. And they're working very hard to unwind much of the socialism that we seem to be heading for at breakneck speed.

  I enjoy the healthcare I have, thank you very much.

  I don't think the government can beat my own ability to shop for value and price. The free market will outperform socialist bureaucrats every time.

  -- Posted by scottm52 on Wed, Aug 12, 2009, at 11:14 AM

• yokels, Lumpy...USPS, United States Postal Service, what's so wrong with it. They are downsizing b/c of the market..so. Competition, it's the American way, right? I get my mail everyday, with very lil' problems. I go the PO regularly and have no problems. Bad analogy.

  -- Posted by Turnip on Wed, Aug 12, 2009, at 11:47 AM

• olagem,

  No wonder you never receive any X-mas greetings, you are only sending people half a card!

  -- Posted by Lumpy on Wed, Aug 12, 2009, at 2:25 PM

• What Megalo really meant to say was that there are 13 real bad arses in the whole world... and he gets 12 Christmas Cards.

  -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Wed, Aug 12, 2009, at 3:15 PM

• Can't undertand how the government in the very beginning missed the golden opportunity of putting the Internet under the control of the USPS. (After all Al Gore invented it, or so he said.) Then USPS could have imposed a 3 cent tax on every e-mail sent. Think of the revenue that alone could have raised at virtually no cost.

  -- Posted by voyager on Thu, Aug 13, 2009, at 7:08 AM

• Lew Rockwell chimes in...

  http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/obama-postoffice126.html

  -- Posted by Lumpy on Thu, Aug 13, 2009, at 7:27 AM

• Sending a letter from Maine to Guam or Alaska to the Florida Keys is still a value for 44 cents. Everyone remembers about the one or two letters that took a week to get accross town but rarely do they remember the thousands that made it in a timely manner. People dont realize the volume that the USPS carries so mistakes will happen. Compare pieces handled by the USPS vs UPS or Fed X. There is no comparison. Also, the USPS handles more products and services. 1st class, Periodicals, Standard mail, Priority, Parcel Post, Express mail so the proccesing involed in the types of mail is much more diverse.

  Those that want or wish the USPS to be gone should realize that private businesses would take the cream of the crop geographical locations and pass or charge a premium to serve and deliver to Rural areas like ours. (And, yes, I include Cape when i mean rural) Private are meant to turn profits so it would be expensive for them to deliver a letter from Cape to Zalma Or Boston to Bumblescum AZ. The USPS offers Universal service to all addresses in the US.

  Sendind a care package or christmas cards are descretionary spending and that is one of the things people cut back on just like businesses cut back on business mailings if they need to trim their budgets.

  The problem with the USPS is mid level beuracracy (spelling?) 80 district offices nationwide that have hundres of mid level management that contribute very little to selling stamps, moving the mail, maintenance or delivery.

  -- Posted by luv2argue on Thu, Aug 13, 2009, at 9:05 AM

• Didn't the USPS annouce another stamp rate increas? Did they not also annouce that they would be closing 700+ offices becaus of funding and lack of use?

  -- Posted by Airborne 95B on Wed, Aug 12, 2009, at 9:57 AM

  I believe that the statues now allow the USPS to raise 1st class letter rates once per year and that can only be done in the month of May. I dont think it applies to packages. the majority of the office closing will be in urban areas like St Louis where there are stations, branches and Post Offices on 2 or 3 mile apart so I have to hand it to them to trim some overhead.

  -- Posted by luv2argue on Thu, Aug 13, 2009, at 9:10 AM

• lumpy

  Good article and on target.

  superbee,

  Hear what you are saying about rural mail delivery, but Government does not deliver other essentials to the rural areas, such as electricity. Years ago the REA program was setup that assisted private enterprise in delivering this service, and it has worked reasonably well for the most part.

  Yes delivery of any service to a hard to service area gets to be more expensive, but living there is a lifestyle choice for the most part, and in my opinion has benefits far exceeding the extra costs for some items. And there are some costs that the rural dweller has the advantage over a city dweller.

  And I do believe I see UPS and Fed-Ex traveling the backroads on a regular basis.

  I feel that no person or group should be forced to subsidize another by government.

  -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Aug 13, 2009, at 10:34 AM

• superbee,

  The discussion is not whether or not we believe that the USPS is cheap, the debate regards the competition factor when comparing USPS (the state) and UPS / FedEx (the free market). Can the two compete fairly?

  This is just part of the equation when considering UHC. Also "cheap" is a relative term. To the tax gobbler, UHC seems like a value. These are the same people that use terms like "the government pays for" and "free money".

  To the producer, UHC becomes less of a bargain.

  -- Posted by Lumpy on Thu, Aug 13, 2009, at 12:24 PM

• Yep, I agree that UPS is probably more efficient at sending packages than the USPS. In a few cases (depending on distance and weight) the USPS is cheaper and just as fast. However, that is what UPS specializes in. UPS is strictly tooled and their logistics are specially designed for package delivery.

  All i am saying that when you add letter mail, flats, peridicals and other numerous services USPS provide, it significantly increases the complexity of machinery, staffing and logistics.

  One of the large reasons for the USPS deficit is they are requried by law to prefund all of their retirement costs. No other government or private sector business are required to do that. If that requirement would be taken off the shoulders of the USPS, it would change the financial out look of the USPS much better.

  I agree totally agree that UHC is not an answer. I am totally against it. And, like i said in my previous post, it is the beauracracy in the USPS that a lot of the problems within it. And, i am afraid that a similar beauracracy would harm a UHC system.

  So, I am actually agreeing with those that say UHC would be a beaurocratic nightmare.

  -- Posted by luv2argue on Thu, Aug 13, 2009, at 1:29 PM

• And I do believe I see UPS and Fed-Ex traveling the backroads on a regular basis.

  I feel that no person or group should be forced to subsidize another by government.

  Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Aug 13, 2009, at 10:34 AM

  Wheels, I forgot to respond earlier.

  Yep, FedX and UPS do put a lot of miles on the backroads but you must also take into consideration that they stop and deliver at a very small percentage of homes and therefore one truck can cover a wide geographical area. A typical rural letter carrier stops at about 97% of rural boxes. And, by doing so takes much longer to run a route due to time spent at the box, travel time and fuel costs.

  Technically, taxpayer dollars do not subsidize the USPS since the Postal reform act of 1970 when it became a quasi govt business. With the excepting of govt subsidizing some non profit mailing, the USPS is to be self funding. (unless it gets a bailout sadly). So, when those that talk about their tax dollars funding the USPS is more inaccurate than accurate.

  -- Posted by luv2argue on Thu, Aug 13, 2009, at 2:00 PM

• Yep, FedX and UPS do put a lot of miles on the backroads but you must also take into consideration that they stop and deliver at a very small percentage of homes and therefore one truck can cover a wide geographical area. A typical rural letter carrier stops at about 97% of rural boxes. And, by doing so takes much longer to run a route due to time spent at the box, travel time and fuel costs.

  -- Posted by superbee on Thu, Aug 13, 2009, at 2:00 PM

  True, UPS and Fed Ex do only stop at a small % of the homes, but if they did carry the mail and stop at 97% of the homes, there would be more revenue to cover more trucks. Obviously I do not have the numbers of customers it takes to be profitable, but it is my feeling that private enterprise, given an incentive and with competition can do a more effective and less espensive job at a profit. Not wanting to be argumentative. I just have more faith in a profit based system than I do in a bureaucratic system such as government ultimately sets up.

  -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Aug 13, 2009, at 2:20 PM

• olagem,

  I ship and receive hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of materials on a daily basis. I have never, nor will I ever trust the USPS to handle them. I like my job too much.

  Several years ago I was restoring a car to original condition. I had plans to make it a trailer queen. I located a NOS battery in California; the cells had never been filled. This thing was a jewel. I had it shipped across the country via UPS.

  After I dropped a small fortune in the car, and realized that I had already invested more in it than it would ever be worth, I decided to unload some of these NOS parts on eBay.

  Some old car nut in Chicago bought that battery. I had only removed it from it's original shipping box to take pictures. This guy insisted on using the USPS to deliver it, against my protests. Oh well, I had my money, so after arguing with the postmaster for close to half an hour that it was not hazardous, I dropped it off.

  Guess what? He got it all right. Luckily all three of the corners that got busted off were still in the box. Also a good thing that he never had any intentions of filling the cells and charging it because there was a nice hairline crack on one side. With a little epoxy and some good paint matching he got his $170 NOS battery to look worse than a $35 Duralast.

  During the restoration of that same car I ordered some hood insulation. UPS delivered and the package was damaged. I called them and they replaced the insulation. No questions asked. I even still have the old damaged insulation somewhere in my attic.

  -- Posted by Lumpy on Thu, Aug 13, 2009, at 4:43 PM

• olagem,

  No ****! I don't know why anyone would have a problem with a bloated, subsidized, ineffecient, monopolistic, entity that has run it's coarse and is protected by your beloved state.

  -- Posted by Lumpy on Thu, Aug 13, 2009, at 8:54 PM

• Spank

  My brother always calls me and tells me he received my card but to look on the floor around my desk... because the money must have fallen out before I sealed the envelope.

  -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Aug 14, 2009, at 10:32 AM