Posted by R. W. Bess on Mon, Nov 19, 2018, at 12:59 PM:
"Whenever one segment of an economy exhibits, year after year, inflation above the general rate, and when there is no constraint on supply, then either a cartel is in operation or there is a lack of price transparency—or both, as is the case with American medical care."
Solutions toward the bottom, history of how we got into this mess starts at the top.
-- Posted by R. W. Bess on Mon, Nov 19, 2018, at 1:01 PM
"Indian Health Service" was not wanted and rejected by the Peoples . It is just another Federal Government restraint and oppression on the Peoples --- we can not be bought .
**************
Health Care is no cheaper then it was in 2010 when this Federal Law was created to keep Health Care cheaper . It has not remained the same or lower any year since 2010 , the costs continue to rise as it did in 2009 or before .
Some new Medical Technology advancements are no longer covered by Health Care , preventive treatments for one . When a woman gets a breast exam now , 3-D technology is used instead of the woman's breast being mashed in plates for x-rays . This is not covered by the PPACA . No where in the PPACA guarantees advancing Medical Technology to be covered .
The costs of Big Pharma medication is still going through the roof with no end in sight . The PPACA has no affect on these sky rocketing prices .
Obama , and all of his supporters toyed with the People's emotion , "You might get sick one day and need Insurance ." Let the single individual make this decision , don't let a few make it a mandatory Law everyone must abide by the Government's decision and not their own .
The first step to cheaper cost is eliminate all deductibles across the board . Deductibles must be paid at the same time as monthly premiums are paid . This is a double cost to the consumer .
Some will say the PPACA will have a small affect on People but then say it will affect millions too if it's gone . How can it be both at the same time ?
-- Posted by Rick Scaggs on Mon, Nov 19, 2018, at 1:33 PM
A study of history IMO agrees with Reagan's assertion that government is not the solution; government is the problem. Price controls were responsible for employers offering hospital insurance to compete for talent. The opinion of the Hillsdale writer can be easily verified as thoughtfully derived at with a little research on the subject.
-- Posted by R. W. Bess on Mon, Nov 19, 2018, at 6:49 PM
Rick S.,
"...was not wanted and rejected by the Peoples..."
At least they don't have to pay for any ACA coverage.
"The Affordable Care Act and American Indians and Alaska Natives
For American Indians and Alaska Natives, the ACA will help address health disparities by investing in prevention and wellness and increasing access to affordable health coverage.
The ACA provides American Indians and Alaska Natives with more choices; depending on your eligibility and the coverage available in your state, you can:
Continue to use IHS, tribal, and/or urban Indian health programs
Enroll in a qualified health plan (QHP) through the Marketplace
Access coverage through Medicare, Medicaid, and the Children's Health Insurance Program
If you choose to enroll in a QHP through the Health Insurance Marketplace plan, you may qualify for special benefits and protections offered to American Indians and Alaska Natives.
-- Posted by Rick Lettau on Mon, Nov 19, 2018, at 8:26 PM
Are you trying to tell me what we can do or just what the paper work says , it's almost unbelievable how much some love Government control . So , we get out of our Heap big tepee now ?
You are out of your league here , you are clueless . The USA Government has signed 357 Treaties with the People and haven't honored one yet , this is just more blah , blah . What the Government can give , the Government can take away .
We want no part of it either way .
-- Posted by Rick Scaggs on Mon, Nov 19, 2018, at 8:35 PM
Besides all that , the PPACA is about 100% of the Americans forced to purchase something they might not want , it's just not only about the Peoples .
Oppression is oppression , control is control .
-- Posted by Rick Scaggs on Mon, Nov 19, 2018, at 8:42 PM
We don't want freakin' hand outs , we want Freedom .
What part of this can't you comprehend ?
-- Posted by Rick Scaggs on Mon, Nov 19, 2018, at 8:47 PM
"For American Indians and Alaska Natives, the ACA will help address health disparities by investing in prevention and wellness and increasing access to affordable health coverage."
There he goes again, giving his opinion as if it is fact.
How about giving your opinion on the solutions and causes of where we are today concerning health care, medical insurance or whatever you choose to call it?
-- Posted by R. W. Bess on Mon, Nov 19, 2018, at 8:49 PM
Rick: Don't know what's wrong with your 8:35pm but the Google god doesn't like the F word in you 8:47pm comment. I'm trying to figure out how this new god of the First Amendment takes the words and use their godliness to say yeah or nay.
Schaefer's World
-- Posted by Dennis Smith on Mon, Nov 19, 2018, at 9:16 PM
As far as I'm concerned Obamacare never was and never will be worth the paper it was written on.
Schaefer's World
-- Posted by Dennis Smith on Mon, Nov 19, 2018, at 9:18 PM
Mr. Bess,
There you go again, making unsubstantiated presumptions. It was not my opinion, it was a quote from the IHS website, I just missed putting the link at the end. My mistake.
As for my opinion on the current health care and medical cost issue, the problem is the insurance system where once you've set the premiums, the insurance company gets in between you and your doctor, and then bfew people care how much the insurance company pays.
The solution is to join the rest of the civilized world and implement a single payer system.
-- Posted by Rick Lettau on Mon, Nov 19, 2018, at 9:21 PM
Lettau, I agree the problem stems from people not concerned with the cost but do you verily think more lack of concern about the cost with a single payer system will help?
IMO the problem started when government got involved and more government ain't gonna fix it.
-- Posted by R. W. Bess on Mon, Nov 19, 2018, at 9:35 PM
The solution is to join the rest of the civilized world and implement a single payer system.
-- Posted by Rick Lettau on Mon, Nov 19, 2018, at 9:21 PM
Mr. Lettau: Join the rest of the civilized world like those countries where their citizens come to the USA for treatment when they can't due to wait times or lack of doctors or poorly equipped hospitals in those socialized medicine countries....just use the Google god to research these poor souls before you wish the worst on the citizens of the USA.
Schaefer's World
-- Posted by Dennis Smith on Mon, Nov 19, 2018, at 9:42 PM
:....was a quote from the IHS website, I just missed putting the link at the end. My mistake."
No problem, we all make mistakes, Am I mistaken by assuming IMS refers to the website subject of the thread? Seems I can't find that quote in the Hillsdale piece.
I think there is a way to gradually get government out and let the free market bring costs down.
-- Posted by R. W. Bess on Mon, Nov 19, 2018, at 9:56 PM
Richard,
Obviously some did not read down to this last paragraph......
"There are enormous forces arrayed against these economically sensible reforms. Defenders of the status quo are the most potent lobbyists in Washington and the state capitals. This is not to mention the leftist proponents of single payer, who favor whatever will increase the power and scope of government. So it won’t be an easy fight. But at least we have one thing on our side—Stein’s law, named after the famous economist Herbert Stein: “If something cannot go on forever, it will stop.”"
It is very confusing to me to find Posters, on the one hand claiming to be for more responsible and limited government, then on the other hand joins "leftist proponents of single payer, who favor whatever will increase the power and scope of government."
My information in quotes comes from the article which I read every word of before posting. A pleasant surprise finds the author pretty much agreeing with how I feel about the out of control medical system.
-- Posted by Ralph VanGennip on Mon, Nov 19, 2018, at 10:42 PM
Wheels, That makes at least two forum participators that read it all.
I have presented the same ideas for some time as you and a couple others have.
-- Posted by R. W. Bess on Mon, Nov 19, 2018, at 11:43 PM
Rick L
My apologies for being sharp and incorrigible regarding the USA Government and the Peoples . Perhaps you can spend some time on the Rez to see reality for yourself and not just what Government words as truth . The various changes of the Federal Indian Health Care Treaty can explain some of our frustration with the USA Government . Also , I was incorrect about the number of Treaties , the true amount would be 371 . Perhaps a multitude of material should be considered instead of just one -- how great the USA Government treats the People . A fact , the Siege at Wounded Knee, 1973 was a direct result of rejection to the USA Government's controls which I proudly participated .
-- Posted by Rick Scaggs on Tue, Nov 20, 2018, at 6:25 AM
Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first.
~~ Mark Twain
-- Posted by Rick Scaggs on Tue, Nov 20, 2018, at 6:36 AM
I also read to the end of the opinion piece, and the claim that single payer is some manner of “leftist” plot is standard conservative rhetoric. The more spurious assertion was in the middle where Mr. Gordon states that “…the federal government already runs three single-payer systems – Medicare, the Veterans Health Administration, and the Indian Health Service – each of which is in a shambles, noted for fraud, waste, and corruption.”
While the VA and the IHS are basically socialized medicine, the VA users are for a large part satisfied with the service received, except where the funding restricts timely treatment. Furthermore President Trump signed the VA Mission Act, but there are questions whether the Congress will fund it for the long term.
As for Medicare, it uses private doctors, private hospitals, and private medical support services, and receives 70 -90% approval from its users. If there’s a minor degree of FWA that still needs fixing, it will be corrected. Basically, Mr. Gordon’s gross exaggeration of the “shambles” casts doubt on his other opinions. His photo makes him appear to be Medicare eligible, so he should know better. Moreover, as he gave his talk on an educational cruise to Hawaii, his audience hopefully also corrected him.
There are clearly methods in which a single-payer system can be made to work. It’s also pretty clear that private insurance is not working.
-- Posted by Rick Lettau on Tue, Nov 20, 2018, at 6:50 AM
Rick S.,
Will get back to your comments when time permits.
-- Posted by Rick Lettau on Tue, Nov 20, 2018, at 6:51 AM
Rick,
After reading the two articles it is fairly obvious that what is needed for the People is not more government.
-- Posted by Ralph VanGennip on Tue, Nov 20, 2018, at 6:52 AM
"the VA users are for a large part satisfied with the service received, except where the funding restricts timely treatment. Furthermore President Trump signed the VA Mission Act, but there are questions whether the Congress will fund it for the long term."
Mr. Lettau: The only part of Congress that would not approve continue funding would be the Democratic control House which will fund Health Care for the Illegals but not for the Vets - Americans First.
"the federal government already runs three single-payer systems – Medicare, the Veterans Health Administration, and the Indian Health Service"
Mr. Lettau: You left off one - Medicaid made up of those folks who actually need medical health care due to health and financial concerns but has been over ran by those Freeloaders who are taken under the wing of the Democratic party to ensure their votes and those votes by their dead relations.
-- Posted by Rick Lettau on Tue, Nov 20, 2018, at 6:50 AM
Schaefer's World
-- Posted by Dennis Smith on Tue, Nov 20, 2018, at 7:26 AM
There are clearly methods in which a single-payer system can be made to work. It’s also pretty clear that private insurance is not working.
-- Posted by Rick Lettau on Tue, Nov 20, 2018, at 6:50 AM
In what way is "It’s also pretty clear that private insurance is not working." , maybe because of Governmental oppression and controls of a Free Market ?
The Florida Governor candidate , Andrew Gillum , promised a single payer system at the cost of $33 trillion dollars with no specific plan how to pay for it . This would be only one State , multiply it by 49 and it's clear to see a single payer system is not only unmanageable , it is clearly not the answer for cheaper Health Care .
-- Posted by Rick Scaggs on Tue, Nov 20, 2018, at 8:00 AM
Rick: You meant to say 52 more States didn't you? (blink)
Schaefer's World
-- Posted by Dennis Smith on Tue, Nov 20, 2018, at 8:05 AM
-- Posted by Rick Lettau on Mon, Nov 19, 2018, at 8:26 PM
I shared this post with some Peoples on the Rez . Some asked if you were lost , others wanted to know if you were a USA Fed Agent , and most didn't have a clue as what you were talking about or the point you were trying to make .
They all respected your Right for your voice to be heard .
Maybe I'll address this topic again this weekend while we're on the Rez , you might come up with more words of wisdom before we leave tomorrow .
-- Posted by Rick Scaggs on Tue, Nov 20, 2018, at 4:01 PM
Rick S.
"...and most didn't have a clue as what you were talking about or the point you were trying to make."
What I inadvertently left off was the link to the source.
The post was an extract from their fact sheet. Other information that was shown was an annual budget of about $5.5 billion and over 700,000 patients seen. The point was simply that the ACA didn't apply as it does to others, and I just pasted from their website.
-- Posted by Rick Lettau on Tue, Nov 20, 2018, at 7:05 PM
Ah , those good ol' ".gov" websites , made special by the Government for the Government .
I'll be sure to ask the People on Pine Ridge to check this out too .
-- Posted by Rick Scaggs on Tue, Nov 20, 2018, at 7:07 PM
-- Posted by Rick Scaggs on Tue, Nov 20, 2018, at 7:22 PM
Click on Mr Lettau's inadvertently omitted link and count the levels of bureaucracy involved in providing one small single payer service.
Without transparency and consumer incentive of input by choice, the costs will continue to spiral out of control. Now excuse me while I apply for one of those free pain relieving high tech devices on TV.
-- Posted by R. W. Bess on Tue, Nov 20, 2018, at 7:47 PM
There's an old saying , "Well don't make a Federal Case about it !"...this should return
"Sometimes things go your way and sometimes they don't" should come back too
Grandma always told us when we were growing up to keep the Feds off her land because they were always up to no good ...the older I get , the more I know what she meant ...
-- Posted by Rick Scaggs on Tue, Nov 20, 2018, at 9:27 PM
annual budget of about $5.5 billion and over 700,000 patients seen. -- Posted by Rick Lettau on Tue, Nov 20, 2018, at 7:05 PM
Mr. Lettau: $5.5 billion for 700,000 visits that would be $7,857 per visit - expensive health care but what can you expect from a government controlled single payer health care plan.
What does free health care to all the Illegals cost the taxpayers - cheaper to build the Wall and keep them out, wouldn't it.
Schaefer's World
-- Posted by Dennis Smith on Wed, Nov 21, 2018, at 6:57 AM
-- Posted by David Schaefer on Wed, Nov 21, 2018, at 6:57 AM
Semo471,
My best guess would be that administrative costs ate up about $3928.50 of the per patient visit. Hmmm. still pretty steep..... another $1964.25 per patient visit probably went into some politicians' pockets. Still kind of steep per patient it appears to me.
-- Posted by Ralph VanGennip on Wed, Nov 21, 2018, at 7:19 AM
semo, I went to his link and searched to see if it could be possible to waste that much; looks like it is.
-- Posted by R. W. Bess on Wed, Nov 21, 2018, at 7:23 AM
Semo and Richard, wait until the Leftist Democrats gift us with single payer health care and see what the costs are. They have already shown us the wonders they can perform with Obamacare.
Single means one supplier and one supplier means no competition to me and that also means no real incentive to look for more cost effective ways to do business.
-- Posted by Ralph VanGennip on Wed, Nov 21, 2018, at 7:32 AM
Wheels
I would agree .
-- Posted by Rick Scaggs on Wed, Nov 21, 2018, at 8:04 AM
se'va-he !
Peace out...
-- Posted by Rick Scaggs on Wed, Nov 21, 2018, at 8:10 AM
Rick, Safe Travels!
-- Posted by Ralph VanGennip on Wed, Nov 21, 2018, at 8:15 AM
Mr. VanGennip,
Why would you assume that this represented 1 visit per year.
From the same link...
Per Capita Personal Health Care Expenditures Comparison:
FY 2017 IHS expenditure on user population: $3,851
Total CY 2016 U.S. National Health Expenditure per person: $10,348
-- Posted by Rick Lettau on Wed, Nov 21, 2018, at 8:50 AM
Mr. VanGennip,
Why would you assume that this represented 1 visit per year.
-- Posted by Rick Lettau on Wed, Nov 21, 2018, at 8:50 AM
"My best guess would be that administrative costs ate up about $3928.50 of the per patient visit. Hmmm. still pretty steep..... another $1964.25 per patient visit probably went into some politicians' pockets. Still kind of steep per patient it appears to me."
OK Mister Lettau even if it is nitpicking on your part you got me here.....
Should have read....
"Still kind of steep per patient 'visit' it appears to me."
I left out a word in the last sentence and assumed nothing.
-- Posted by Ralph VanGennip on Wed, Nov 21, 2018, at 9:59 AM
One thing that could be looked at is the way government under Obamacare allows big pharma companies to slightly change the makeup of a drug that is still questionable in results just as the patent expires. This gives them an extended monopoly in the market as Medicare has specific tiers listing by name what drugs they cover. A little research as in my case found that by asking the Dr to change the dosage just slightly will allow for a generic covered thus reducing out of pocket.
I think this is typical of single payer that gives no reason for doctors or patients to question costs.
-- Posted by R. W. Bess on Wed, Nov 21, 2018, at 8:44 PM
Richard, Obamacare had to payback big pharma for their support in getting that atrocity to pass.
-- Posted by Ralph VanGennip on Wed, Nov 21, 2018, at 9:30 PM
Ralph, I am not yet convinced my opening excerpt of the thread subject is incorrect. Single payer Obama-Pelosi idea is wrong all the way around IMO.
-- Posted by R. W. Bess on Wed, Nov 21, 2018, at 10:06 PM
Richard, I think you are right in both cases. Only thing I saw wrong with your last statement, you left Dirty Harry out of the equation. ;-)
-- Posted by Ralph VanGennip on Wed, Nov 21, 2018, at 10:11 PM
Happy Thanksgiving to all on these forums. Remember the Turkey that you are eating today was once a recommendation by Benjamin Franklin to be our National Symbol.
Schaefer's World
-- Posted by Dennis Smith on Thu, Nov 22, 2018, at 6:56 AM
Ditto what Semo471 said.
I will wait until tomorrow to comment on symbols and the appropriateness
-- Posted by Ralph VanGennip on Thu, Nov 22, 2018, at 11:02 AM
Wheels: The Google god thinks that you might not be civil enough. Wonder if the Google god is checking on CNN or MSNBC whose guests and anchors waste no time in chastising our President with threats and language that would make any grandma blush.
Schaefer's World
-- Posted by Dennis Smith on Fri, Nov 23, 2018, at 8:31 AM
Semo471, surely Google is Ok with the truth.
-- Posted by Ralph VanGennip on Fri, Nov 23, 2018, at 8:42 AM
Considering 'what if?' If local pharmacies would print the price billed to Medicare and the cash price on copay receipts, I think some people would find the premium for the supplemental drug coverage cost more than all their meds.
-- Posted by R. W. Bess on Sat, Nov 24, 2018, at 10:50 AM
Wheels: Looks like you past the test of the Google god....doesn't that make you feel special!
Schaefer's World
-- Posted by Dennis Smith on Sun, Nov 25, 2018, at 7:29 AM
Semo471
Yes it does.... but the entertainment factor is missing.
I suppose you will have to let me know if I get shadowed since I see nothing but black and white with Chrome.... no shades of gray with them. But your eagle still has an orange beak.
-- Posted by Ralph VanGennip on Sun, Nov 25, 2018, at 8:19 AM
"We need your voice. Please share your on-topic commentary, insights, and expertise."
Just noticed that last word. Kind of leaves me out of all civil discussions.
-- Posted by R. W. Bess on Sun, Nov 25, 2018, at 8:56 AM
Richard
Expertise would come from the word Expert.
Properly defined, Ex is a has been and Spurt is a large drip.
Since you don't fit that description you should be just fine.
-- Posted by Ralph VanGennip on Sun, Nov 25, 2018, at 9:10 AM
But your eagle still has an orange beak.
-- Posted by Ralph VanGennip on Sun, Nov 25, 2018, at 8:19 AM
Wheels: The Eagle is part of Schaefer's World which should strike the fear of Truth and Reason in the Socialist Democrats.
Schaefer's World
-- Posted by Dennis Smith on Sun, Nov 25, 2018, at 9:51 AM
-- Posted by Rick Scaggs on Sun, Nov 25, 2018, at 3:50 PM
I could have sworn the same Star Spangled Banner hung over all People of the Great Lands no matter their sex , age , race , liberal , conservative , both , and neither for their guaranteed Rights of Freedom and liberties .
-- Posted by Rick Scaggs on Sun, Nov 25, 2018, at 10:02 PM
Rick, I agree but free government provided medical care and insurance is not a right mentioned in guarantees of freedom and liberties.
-- Posted by R. W. Bess on Sun, Nov 25, 2018, at 11:00 PM
Changing the Rights to fit each individual group should not change the same Star Bangled Banner for all hanging over the Great Lands different . This only leads to the shattering of Society of the Great Lands in to labels , there is no equal Freedom and liberties for all . .
-- Posted by Rick Scaggs on Mon, Nov 26, 2018, at 7:43 AM
We went over the new changing IHS rules on the Rez .
The Elders say it is too many limbs to climb to the top of the tree . Others say it is nothing but more confusing empty words and promises from the USA Government , the only thing it is good for is to print out and use the pages for target practice .
-- Posted by Rick Scaggs on Mon, Nov 26, 2018, at 7:48 AM
Menu
"Whenever one segment of an economy exhibits, year after year, inflation above the general rate, and when there is no constraint on supply, then either a cartel is in operation or there is a lack of price transparency—or both, as is the case with American medical care."
Taken from Imprimis, A Short History of American Medical Insurance: https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/short-history-american-medical-insurance/
Replies (58)