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Residents upset with endangered label on fish

Wednesday, October 31, 2012

The grotto sculpin is a cave dwelling fish believed to be found only in Perry County, Mo. It is under consideration to be added to the endangered species list.
(Submitted photo)
More than 120 people packed a standing-room-only meeting that overflowed into a hallway to learn more about plans to add a small cave-dwelling fish found only in Perry County to the federal Endangered Species List.

After a lengthy presentation by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and Missouri Department of Conservation, residents loudly voiced displeasure with the proposal saying it would cost landowners, farmers and local industries. Concerns were voiced that having an endangered species on private property would lead to lower property values.

While the 2.5-inch Grotto sculpin, believed to live only in underground Perry County caves, has been on the Wildlife Service's radar for years, but its process to elevate it to the endangered list has been expedited because of a federal lawsuit, said Shauna Marquardt, a biologist with the Fish and Wildlife Service in Columbia, Mo.

Under a settlement agreement with WildEarth Guardians, the Fish and Wildlife Service has to move forward with the process of evaluating 400 species for the endangered list, including the Grotto sculpin.

The Fish and Wildlife Service has 11 months to determine if the species should be listed and whether steps should be taken to set aside its critical habitat, which lies beneath most of Perryville and its industrial park.

It is estimated there are about 4,200 Grotto sculpin in Perry County, Marquardt said, but some at the meeting questioned whether the count is accurate because caves are so difficult to access. Others questioned whether the Grotto sculpin really is a distinct species.

"What is the impact on the human race, environment, civilization if it goes extinct?" asked Patrick Naeger, a Perry County resident and business owner with property at the entrance of the Moore cave system.

Marquardt said if the Grotto sculpin should became extinct, it would indicate a larger problem. And it likely would mean other species could become extinct.

Perry County Commissioner Pat Heaps asked why the Fish and Wildlife Service could not just cooperate with local governments to create a plan to try to protect the fish without imposing the restrictions that would come with the "endangered" designation.

"We don't want something that will affect our industry and farmers. I've seen a lot of improvements in Perry County. I think we can do this," Heaps said. He noted many sinkholes, from which water filters into caves, have been cleaned up since he was a boy.

Studies have shown more than 30 chemicals in cave streams, many at levels higher than considered acceptable by the EPA, said Paul McKenzie, a biologist with the Fish and Wildlife Service.

These included pesticides, some of which have been outlawed for years, and fertilizers.

Marquardt said the community has the option to come up with a plan to improve its water quality, which is threatening the fish. But it will have to be done quickly because the department has only until Sept. 28, 2013, to follow the court directive.

The Fish and Wildlife Service has been working with the Missouri Department of Conservation and landowners about the status of the Grotto sculpin, but the lawsuit has eliminated their slow, steady progress, said Amy Salveter, field supervisor for the Columbia, Mo.-based agency. "Our hands are tied. We did not choose to do this. We live in the state of Missouri. My father is a farmer ad has an endangered species on his farm. I know you make conservation success by winning trust and working together, but we are following an order from a federal court judge," she said.

There have been two documented fish kill incidents of the Grotto sculpin in Perry County, McKenzie said.

In one instance, the cause never was determined. Cattle in streams -- and sedimentation -- caused the other, but it has been difficult to track specific sources in order to prosecute them, Marquardt said.

In one of the instances, she said, it took six years for the fish to repopulate.

Perry County's Grotto sculpin is similar to the Ozark cave fish, which is on the endangered species list without having negatively affected developments in the Springfield, Mo., downtown area or its airport, Marquardt said.

There are cost-sharing programs available to help private landowners who want to take voluntary steps to help improve underground water quality, said Jason Crites of the Missouri Department of Conservation. A sinkhole cleanup program already has been used seven times in Perry County with three in progress, he said. Other programs help fund vegetative buffers and protection of springs.

The Fish and Wildlife Service does not have jurisdiction over private land, so landowners cannot be forced to take part in these programs, Marquardt said.

Projects that require environmental permits may be affected, but others may not if the species is added to the endangered list, she said.

"It's not a showstopper."

Attendees were asked to submit their concerns electronically or by mail. A public-comment period remains open through Nov. 26.

More information can be found at www.fws.gov/midwest/endangered.



Pertinent address:

Perryville, Mo.



Pertinent address:

Perryville, Mo.

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This will not go well for Perry County residents. These fish are, in fact, found in other caves in Missouri but renamed. You already see that one of the "kill" incidents involves cow manure. Imagine the rules put in place on that.

Welcome to the Federal Government running your lives - again. Over a blind fish found in many caves.

-- Posted by Dug on Wed, Oct 31, 2012, at 9:54 AM

It is attitudes such as the above comment that have our river systems in such a toxic shape. We drink water- fish dying today can be hazardous health repercussions for humans tomorrow.

Can we possibly move into this century and forget antiquated ideas about the government running our lives every time an environmental issue is brought up? We all share the same air, the same water and we will have to be using this same air and water for the rest of our lives. Protecting natural resources from pollution should be important to everyone from every socioeconomic status and all ages.

Also, there are several thousand species of sculpin. Many are unique to one stream system or another, as indicated in the article and the entire point of the public being made aware of this specific fish.

-- Posted by mayeaux02 on Wed, Oct 31, 2012, at 10:47 AM

-- Posted by mayeaux02 on Wed, Oct 31, 2012, at 10:47 AM

It truly is attitudes like yours that permit an every encroaching government to run our lives - the food we eat, the money we use and the dictation of what we do with our personal possessions. You clearly fall into that category.

The public was not being made "aware of this fish". They were being made aware of coming federal rules and regulations. Reread the article without the rose colored glasses on.

We have water, streams and air that is much, much cleaner than ever. Much cleaner. That has little to do with a fish found in caves all over the place.

-- Posted by Dug on Wed, Oct 31, 2012, at 12:09 PM

Let's do this. Get this fish on the endangered species. I don't think leaving this up to "cooperation" with local entities would be in the best interest of this species, especially with the local government's interests and biases in promoting development that could prove to be adverse to the fish. With two fish kills already happening, something drastic needs to be done.

-- Posted by Beaker on Wed, Oct 31, 2012, at 6:43 PM

Dug, quit trolling. Clearly it's you who did not read the article. Let me cut, paste and emphasis for you.

"Studies have shown more than 30 chemicals in cave streams, many at levels higher than considered acceptable by the EPA, said Paul McKenzie, a biologist with the Fish and Wildlife Service.

These included pesticides, some of which have been outlawed for years, and fertilizers."

-- Posted by cognitive77 on Thu, Nov 1, 2012, at 4:05 AM

Yes, I hope the authorities do everything possible to save this species. Everything we do is tied together. Ecosystems survive because of a balance and when you remove something from that balance everything suffers.

People like Dug are so narrow minded. Do not destroy something all for the sake of another corner quick shop.

-- Posted by 3forone on Thu, Nov 1, 2012, at 6:58 AM

Talk about narrow minded and trolling. You greenies don't even know what you're talking about. You take an EPA report on it's face that this is a rare, one-time find of a fish in the entire world. You bought their lie hook, line and sinker.

The Grotto sculpin is found in MANY caves outside of Perry county. Your complete reliance on government reporting speaks volumes of you ability to think independently. These fish are neither being "destroyed" or chemically killed. Have you ever gone spelunking? I have many many times - look up the word.

So liberals like yourselves resort to name-calling when all you have for reference or knowledge is a government report. Funny.

My pond "turned over" this past summer and 1000's of bass, blue gill and catfish died - smelled bad and a mess. Someone call the EPA!!!! OMG!!!!

What you libs are in denial of is the sculpin IS found in MANY caves all over the place. You just love federal intervention in anything that doesn't affect you. Get a life.

-- Posted by Dug on Thu, Nov 1, 2012, at 8:16 AM





So you take a common fish, rename it to "grotto" because only then would it be unique and then get the federal government to regulate farming and industry over a common fish? Sounds like a liberal solution ripe with government regulation.

I guess you could say all the bass in Perry county are "grotto" bass only found in Perry county. And the catfish in Perry county are "grotto" catfish only found in Perry county. Quick - get the federal government to regulate them because the only place that Perry county fish are found in the entire world is..... in Perry county!

Just like your president Obama, the only solutions to any problem is the federal government. Now read the links above and get educated about the SCULPIN found all over the world in fresh water - as well as some caves and streams in Perry county.

-- Posted by Dug on Thu, Nov 1, 2012, at 8:39 AM

It's got nothing to do with having a liberal mindset, or who we vote for president. We just want to protect this species. I for one, am not in either group. There is a systemic way of naming the species. Those of us who want to save this fish just are not buying into any conspiracy theory.

-- Posted by Beaker on Thu, Nov 1, 2012, at 12:07 PM

Conspiracy? Where?

Facts? The sculpin is found all over the world - not just in Perry County. The FEDERAL government has involved itself to stop the death of a few hundred sculpin - due to "cow manure"??? and other causes.

This could be worked out and solved without a federal lawsuit or federal regulations. The timber industry in Oregon was devastated by the "spotted brown owl". I personally don't want elites in Washington telling the people of Perry County or Missouri how to solve their problems.

I'm simply providing accurate information. By reading the environmentalists viewpoint you would think this fish is critical to the survival of the world and only found in 5 caves in Perry Counyt. Nothing could be further from the truth and it's evident that some posters buy the government position hook, line and sinker (not you Beaker). I've done a ton of spelunking since I was 16. I know a tad bit about what I'm speaking of.

-- Posted by Dug on Thu, Nov 1, 2012, at 12:31 PM

Dug, REAL cavers call it "caving," not spelunking. They consider the latter term a bit sissified.

Yes, sculpins of various types occur all over the world, and most are salt-water fish. "The small, pale, nearly-blind grotto sculpin may be the only population specially adapted to living in subterranean streams." Should we have let the American bald eagle, our national symbol, go extinct due to DDT because there are many other eagle species around the world?

Who "created" this species? Fundies will say "God." So you're saying that you know better than God what species should live? By the way, the grotto sculpin was first entered into consideration for ESA listing in June of 2002, under that guy Bush.



-- Posted by J.R. McLoughlin on Fri, Nov 2, 2012, at 8:08 AM

Also, mentioning "cow manure" in a derisive manner trivializes the importance of mismanaged manure as a source of pollution. It can wipe out life in surface water by causing algae blooms that use up the oxygen. Just because ponds naturally experience turnover doesn't mean we should add to the problem.

Cave ecosystems are incredibly fragile and can take thousands of years to recover from damage. I've done my share of caving, and a mentor of mine was the president of the National Speleological Society. It's very disturbing to see broken-off stalactites, candy wrappers, cigarette butts, etc., left behind by "spelunkers."

-- Posted by J.R. McLoughlin on Fri, Nov 2, 2012, at 8:24 AM

Well said J.R. Some people on this board think they are experts on everything. They kind of remind me of Topper in the Dilbert cartoons.

-- Posted by 3forone on Fri, Nov 2, 2012, at 5:17 PM

National Speleological Society. -- Posted by J.R. McLoughlin on Fri, Nov 2, 2012, at 8:24 AM

You disparage the word "spelunking" and then and your mentor belonged to the "Speleological" society? Sounds pretty sissified to me.

See how lame your attacks are? You just proved you really don't know what you're talking about. I have done my share of SPELUNKING and unlike you - I don't leave candy wrappers, cigarettes or break stalactites.

Yes I know to Al Gore and you when cows poop (terrible pollution) or they belch (global warming) it's the end of the world. Enjoy that steak you're eating tonight.

Now back to the subject to continue educating you and your fan club. You couldn't be more wrong. There are many, many blind and non-blind FRESH WATER sculpins all over the US and world. Yes, there are some salt water as well.

And this??? - "Cave ecosystems are incredibly fragile and can take thousands of years to recover from damage." Really? How long did it take you to google that?

Back to the point - we don't need the federal government involved to put in regulations in a rural Missouri county when the state can handle it. I'll bet good money you don't even live in Perryville. A typical liberal - always putting your rules onto others or "do as I say, not as I do".

-- Posted by Dug on Fri, Nov 2, 2012, at 5:44 PM

Dug, you and me. Let's compare our educations in the bowels of the deepest cave you can find. Dim light for a dim bulb, I say.

-- Posted by J.R. McLoughlin on Sat, Nov 3, 2012, at 2:30 AM

I don't need to google what I already know, and the state doesn't WANT to handle it, and you are a speLUNKhead. Pistols at dawn. Nah, I don't have the time to waste. You are an idiot, and it's plain to everyone who looks at your rants. Bugger off, and go hide back under the rock you crawled out from under, without wondering where it came from.

-- Posted by J.R. McLoughlin on Sat, Nov 3, 2012, at 2:45 AM

Dim light for a dim bulb, I say -- Posted by J.R. McLoughlin on Sat, Nov 3, 2012, at 2:30 AM

Ahhh... and now the layers of the onion are pealed back and we have a liberal elitist exposed. You lose an intellectual debate and resort to name calling because you have nothing. Sissified? Dim bulb? You're out of your league and it's obvious you're not from this area "JR". Idiot is another name? You lose on both substance (none) and style (childish).

Buddy, you wouldn't know which end of a pistol to hold in your liberal world. Where did you even see one? In a movie once?

Back to the story - you been schooled. Sculpins - fresh water, blind, 20/20 vision, you name it - are found all over the US and world. Identical to this newly named "grotto" sculpin. You lie about the state not wanting to deal with this because you couldn't find anything on google about it.

Perry County is beautiful, green and safe for it's residents and it's wildlife - unlike the city where you live full of concrete, steel and a disaster for whatever wildlife was there before you built that big house. Get an education and then we can talk. And by the way, google isn't an education. You have no idea what you are talking about and that is obvious by your lame talking points and your name calling.

-- Posted by Dug on Sat, Nov 3, 2012, at 10:34 AM

Dug, i think you meant to say "peeled" rather than "pealed." Perhaps your bells haven't been chimed in a while. I used to shoot a Colt Navy down in the hollows (or "hollers," if ye prefer), of Cape county nearly 30 years ago. I know how to load one and whom to aim it at. Like people who say "it's" when they mean "its." Don't attempt to criticize people on intellectual grounds when you can't even apostrophize properly. You are a pseudo-nonintellectual who probably never had a college course in his life; oh, wait, college is considered a detriment in Swampeast, I almost forgot.

-- Posted by J.R. McLoughlin on Sat, Nov 3, 2012, at 12:18 PM

Plus, i didn't start off by posting Google or Wikipedia links, which "isn't an education" by your definition. YOU did. I just added a couple. How much of an education do YOU have, "Dug?" Dug yerself into a hole and stayed there, it sounds like. A Ph.D. in piled higher and deeper?

-- Posted by J.R. McLoughlin on Sat, Nov 3, 2012, at 12:32 PM

More name calling, personal attack and no facts on the world-wide fresh water sculpin? Again, you've lost. Keep pushing those personal attacks - they speak volumes on your inability to put together a cogent position.

I don't think you know what a Navy Colt is and would be clueless on how to load it. Did you see it on you-tube somewhere? Or google it? I'll cut and paste the rest from above to save me time:

"Sculpins - fresh water, blind, 20/20 vision, you name it - are found all over the US and world. Identical to this newly named "grotto" sculpin. You lie about the state not wanting to deal with this because you couldn't find anything on google about it."

Stay in the big city where you've devastated the local environment. And by the way - posting on the internet is anti-green. You're burning up electric generated by nuclear plants using a PC that has batteries that are harmful to the environment. Oh wait - that doesn't matter because you don't put your money where your mouth is. You just decide to push laws and regulations on others with "google" data. Regulations that you can't live with yourself.

A typical liberal elitist.

-- Posted by Dug on Sat, Nov 3, 2012, at 12:40 PM

Actually, what I had was a .36-caliber Uberti replica of a Griswold & Gunnison brass-framed Confederate copy of a Colt Navy. They melted down the church bells of Macon to make the brass frames, because the South was short on iron. Loading a black powder revolver is kind of like doing tea ceremony, rather meditative in character. Gotta do it right so you don't have a chain-fire and blow yer hand off. Yeah, I know how to load one.

As far as name-calling goes, i am PROUD to be a liberal, and a progressive. What i'm NOT is an "elitist." Or "typical," for that matter. Dig it, Dug, I've done more to protect the environment than you can fit into your limited conception of it. I've worked for Greenpeace off & on since 1980. I was a State hazardous waste inspector here for years, and used to have to make bumpkins stop throwing their trash in sinkholes. As a consultant, I've helped companies stay out of regulatory trouble by improving their waste-management habits. Yeah, I use electricity, so do you. My carbon footprint is about zero, though.

If your hindquarters were as narrow as your mind, you could fit onto a barstool, and i'd buy you a drink and larn ya a lesson or two. As it is, you're more comfortable sprawled on your couch, throwing labels at people. Your punishment is having to be YOU. Enjoy.

-- Posted by J.R. McLoughlin on Sat, Nov 3, 2012, at 10:55 PM

throwing labels at people. -- Posted by J.R. McLoughlin on Sat, Nov 3, 2012, at 10:55 PM

I think you threw the liberal label at yourself. Again, as the layers of the JR onion are "pealed" off the liberal elitist - now "GreenPeace" elitist - become clearer and clearer.

You are about as hypocritical as they come. You live in that big city house with sewer systems dumping in the Missouri/Mississippi river, devastation to the wildlife and highways running everywhere with your 45-60 minute commutes. And, yes, you are burning electricity generated from a nuclear plant.

Point is - don't push your elitist ideas down other's throats. You couldn't live within your own standards so you push your values onto others. Perry County is far, far cleaner in air, water and land than St. Charles or St. Louis county will ever be. Fix your own back yard first and then maybe, just maybe you'll have a little credibility. "Do as I say, not as I do" doesn't work JR.

Now, about that sculpin that I schooled you on. You seem to have moved to your pistol braggadocio and your affinity for your "green" badges. Again, you lost the argument several posts ago. Grow up.

-- Posted by Dug on Sat, Nov 3, 2012, at 11:46 PM

Again, it's "peeled," the spelling you're not bothering to search for. I don't HAVE 45-60 minute commutes because I haven't had a car in 16 years. I walk, or occasionally ride the bus. I don't live in a "big city house," I live in an old apartment building, which has a dedicated recycling bin, and I compost everything that can be composted. Where does YOUR electricity come from, caveman? Coal? Please take a DEEP breath. I'm trying to get my building to go solar; I bet that's more than you're doing, loudmouth. You apparently picture me as some Volvo-driving granola-munching "elitist." Nah. I'm just a guy who gives a **** and actually does something about it, including rescuing stray dogs and cats. Show me your résumé sometime. Flunked out of clown college, how surprising. And there wasn't an "argument" to begin with, because you're a buffoon without a valid position to support. Should you ever need brain surgery, a proctologist will need to assist, just to find it. Get stuffed...oh, wait, that's already the problem just described.

-- Posted by J.R. McLoughlin on Sun, Nov 4, 2012, at 7:27 AM

Also, refer to Judges 15:16. Your jawbone may lay low heaps of people even more uninformed than yourself, but I thank baby Jesus that I'm not one of them. I was collecting fossils in Perry County decades ago, and breathing that fresh air, but mental fossils like you foul it with your stench.

-- Posted by J.R. McLoughlin on Sun, Nov 4, 2012, at 7:54 AM

Where does YOUR electricity come from, caveman? Coal? -- Posted by J.R. McLoughlin on Sun, Nov 4, 2012, at 7:27 AM

Same place your electricity comes from big-city JR. I'm just not an elitist hypocrite like you. IF you did "something about it" you wouldn't be posting here because you're burning electrons from a nuclear plant.

As for the rest of your "me, me, me" diatribe about composting, apartment living and no-car wonder world - you're full of it. How many caves have you walked to in Missouri? Since you're such a big spelunker? Not many caves near that apartment in the big-city and if there were the bats, salamanders and popular fresh-water sculpins (found everywhere) would have been killed by your very lifestyle - and the hundreds of residences and concrete around you. Just go look out your window and see what you and your lifestyle have done to the environment.

I think you're losing your mind with the name calling and bible references. Get back to the Huffington post quick! and see if you can search for more names.

You're a hypocrite JR and a very sad person. Pure and simple. And the very environment you live and breathe in is a dump compared to Perry county. I'll spell "pealed" again for you so you can have something of substance to write about.

Stay in the city. How did you look for fossils in Perry county without a car? It's a long walk - if you even knew where Perry county was. LOL!

-- Posted by Dug on Sun, Nov 4, 2012, at 8:31 AM

Bells peal; onions peel. Away, bumpkin, you are your own reward. The cow-manure pile is thataway.

-- Posted by J.R. McLoughlin on Sun, Nov 4, 2012, at 7:58 PM

P.S. I'd purely love to see you try to start a campfire by "burning" electrons. Particle physics isn't your particular strength. And who says I live in the "big city?" I might live in East DeSoto, for all you know.

-- Posted by J.R. McLoughlin on Sun, Nov 4, 2012, at 8:21 PM

Apparently you don't know the physics of "electricity". Not surprised for a big-city elitist. Yes - it's obvious you are in the big-city JR. You post your resume, you give us your greenpeace, you talk about compost, no-car, apartments, blah, blah, blah and you've impressed no one with that fine list of liberal crap and your lack of knowledge on sculpins.

Hey - give us another double post. LOL! Seems to be a pattern with you. Can you not think through your thoughts that well? A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

Sculpins - fresh water, blind, 20/20 vision, you name it - are found all over the US and world. Identical to this newly named "grotto" sculpin. You lie about the state not wanting to deal with this because you couldn't find anything on google about it.

Again, you lost the argument a couple of days ago. Why don't you give us more personal information about yourself? Like we care or believe it? You forgot a long time ago this discussion is not about you - I know that's devastating. You're too easy.

-- Posted by Dug on Sun, Nov 4, 2012, at 9:00 PM


-- Posted by J.R. McLoughlin on Mon, Nov 5, 2012, at 11:48 AM

BFD is what I would expect from a city-liberal trying to impose the rules and regulations on a rural area - the very regulations they don't comply with themselves.

You, your apartment, your city has pretty much destroyed the environment that was there and you're fine with that - after all, you are YOU. The "me" attitude of liberals is unmistakable.

Now you want to make sure that some distant place you've probably never been to complies with the rules you won't. That, JR, is liberal "elitism". So, yes, I would expect a "BFD" from someone imposing rules on someone else. Go back and read my first post and you'll see you've come full circle. And we didn't need all that personal braggadocio!

-- Posted by Dug on Mon, Nov 5, 2012, at 1:49 PM

"some distant place you've probably never been to"

Hmmm, well, as I said above, if you'd bother to READ instead of just knee-jerk REACT, you'd see that I spent some quality time in Perry County. I used to go fossil-hunting at an old limestone quarry there when I was a geology major. You haven't trundled out your educational background because I guess you don't HAVE one. Sounds like a typical country boy who despises city boys and college boys. I've spent a lot of my life out in "Ghod's country." You presume to disparage my credentials when you don't have any to show for your own self.

What can one say about impact on the environment to someone whose wish-list is probably comprised of a truck, an ATV, a boat, a Harley, and as many different types of guns as are manufactured? I'm just guessin' there, but I bet I'm not far off the mark. Go despoil your own neck o' the woods in peace. YOU lost the pseudo-"argument" as soon as you started to type. I have no use for people like you except as compost.

-- Posted by J.R. McLoughlin on Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 7:52 AM

since you love those double-posts, "Dug," here ya go:

(Oh, and troglodyte knows how to spell "braggadocio," even twice in a row, wow! Probably had to look it up on the despised Google, which is where he no doubt learned that there's more than one species of sculpin, though the bumpkin lumps them all together. Still hasn't answered my bald eagle question. I guess it wouldn't matter much if a Cape water buffalo or an American bison stepped on his head, as long as the job got done, but cave fishes can nibble on his remains.)

-- Posted by J.R. McLoughlin on Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 9:32 AM

We're getting deeper into JR's disturbed personality. Name calling like a 12 year old and still bragging to us about how smart he is - none of which has any relevance to the issue which he lost the argument on a long time ago.

I'm don't have a child-like mentality like you. I don't correct posters english or spelling mistakes like many people make. I focus on substance not style and don't need to list my resume or repeatedly tell people "look how smart I am". You have issues - seek help.

You sit in your big city apartment (doubtful but unimportant anyway) and brag about your environmental record (doubtful but unimportant anyway) while burning up nuclear supplied fuel in your concrete and asphalt jungle and tell us how to live our lives - what you really are is a far-left liberal elitist. You have destroyed the local environment where you live and then you whine about a fish found all over the world in a county you've never lived in? Liberal elitist - "do as I say, not as I do". Physician heal thyself.

-- Posted by Dug on Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 10:10 AM

All of these over a blind fish, of which there are millions?

-- Posted by fightingindian on Thu, Nov 8, 2012, at 5:33 PM

J R McLoughlin, thank you for trying to educate people on these little fish. Apparently Dug and fightingindian have no idea what they speak of and it is sad that they get to voice their uneducated opinions. If the fish are in trouble we are in trouble with our air and water. We breathe the same air and drink the same water as the grotto sculpin. These people need to educate theirselves so they'd know exactly how dumb they are sounding. Thanks again J R for the well educated and informed opinion. You are exactly on the mark with your comments.

-- Posted by newlg on Thu, Mar 7, 2013, at 10:14 AM

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