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Health care law survives, with help of chief justice

Friday, June 29, 2012

(Photo)
Supporters of President Barack Obama's health care law celebrate outside the Supreme Court in Washington, Thursday, June 28, 2012, after the court's ruling was announced. AP Photo/David Goldman)
Download a copy of the ruling by clicking here

WASHINGTON -- In a ruling touching virtually every American, the Supreme Court narrowly upheld President Barack Obama's historic health care overhaul Thursday with the help of conservative Chief Justice John Roberts.

But the decision also gave Republicans ammunition to energize supporters in the battle for the White House and to fight "Obamacare" as a new tax on people who don't obtain health insurance.

Roberts' vote, along with those of the court's four liberal justices, preserved the largest expansion of the nation's social safety net in more than 45 years, including the hotly debated core requirement that nearly everyone have health insurance or pay a penalty. The aim is to extend coverage to more than 30 million people who now are uninsured.

The 5-4 decision meant the huge overhaul, still taking effect, could proceed and pick up momentum over the next several years, with an impact on the way that countless Americans receive and pay for their personal medical care.

The ruling handed Obama a campaign-season victory in rejecting arguments that Congress went too far in approving the plan. However, Republicans quickly indicated they would try to use the decision against him.

At the White House, Obama said, "Whatever the politics, today's decision was a victory for people all over this country." Blocks away, GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney renewed his criticism of the overhaul, calling it "bad law" and promising to work to repeal it if elected in November.

Demonstrators for and against the law crowded the grounds outside the Supreme Court Building on Capitol Hill as Roberts, sitting at the center of the nine black-robed justices inside, announced the decision to a packed courtroom.

Breaking with the other conservative justices, Roberts read the judgment that allows the law to go forward. He explained at length the court's view of the insurance mandate as a valid exercise of Congress' authority to "lay and collect taxes." The administration estimates that roughly 4 million people will pay the penalty rather than buy insurance.

Congress called the payment a penalty, not a tax, but Roberts said the court would not get hung up on labels. Among other indications it is a tax, Roberts said, "the payment is collected solely by the IRS through the normal means of taxation."

"Because the Constitution permits such a tax, it is not our role to forbid it, or to pass upon its wisdom or fairness," Roberts said.

Many Republicans oppose the law, arguing that it marks a government takeover of health care at the same time it curtails Medicare spending and raises taxes. They also point to studies that predict private employers will be forced to reduce or eliminate coverage and that the legislation will wind up costing far more than estimated, raising federal deficits as a result.

Stocks of hospital companies rose and some insurance companies fell after the ruling.

(Photo)
FILE - This Oct. 8, 2010 file photo shows the justices of the U.S. Supreme Court at the Supreme Court in Washington. Seated from left are Associate Justices Clarence Thomas, and Antonin Scalia, Chief Justice John Roberts, Associate Justices Anthony M. Kennedy and Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Standing, from left are Associate Justices Sonia Sotomayor, Stephen Breyer, Samuel Alito Jr., and Elena Kagan. The Supreme Court on Thursday, June 28, 2012, upheld the individual insurance requirement at the heart of President Barack Obama's historic health care overhaul.
(AP Photo/Pablo Martinez Monsivais, File)
The decision should help hospitals by adding millions of people to the rolls of the insured, expanding the pool of health care consumers. But by the same reasoning, insurance companies will also gain millions of premium-paying customers.

The court found problems with the law's expansion of Medicaid, but even there it said the expansion could proceed as long as the federal government does not threaten to withhold states' entire Medicaid allotment if they don't take part.

Justices Stephen Breyer, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Elena Kagan and Sonia Sotomayor joined Roberts in the outcome.

Justices Samuel Alito, Anthony Kennedy, Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas dissented.

'Invalid in its entirety'

Kennedy summarized the dissent in the courtroom. "In our view, the act before us is invalid in its entirety," he said.

The dissenters said in a joint statement that the law "exceeds federal power both in mandating the purchase of health insurance and in denying non-consenting states all Medicaid funding."

The justices rejected two of the administration's three arguments in support of the insurance requirement. Roberts agreed with his conservative colleagues that Congress lacks the power under the Constitution's commerce clause to put the mandate in place.

"The federal government does not have the power to order people to buy health insurance," he said in a part of his opinion that the liberal justices did not join. But his crucial bottom line was: "The federal government does have the power to impose a tax on those without health insurance."

In all, the justices spelled out their views in six opinions totaling 187 pages. Roberts, Kennedy and Ginsburg spent 51 minutes summarizing their views in the courtroom.

The legislation passed Congress in early 2010 after a monumental struggle in which all Republicans voted against it. House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, R-Va., said Thursday the House will vote July 11 on whether to repeal the law, though such efforts have virtually no chance in the Democratic-controlled Senate.

House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, said the health care law makes it harder for small businesses to hire workers. "Today's ruling underscores the urgency of repealing this harmful law in its entirety," he said.

But Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., heaped praise on the court's decision, and the 2010 law, in a Senate speech. "Passing the Affordable Care Act was the greatest single step in generations toward ensuring access to affordable, quality health care for every American, regardless of where they live or how much money they make," he said.

'A victory'

House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi cast the decision as vindication for her work to secure passage of the far-reaching legislation.

"This decision is a victory for the American people. With this ruling, Americans will benefit from critical patient protections, lower costs for the middle class, more coverage for families, and greater accountability for the insurance industry," Pelosi said.

After the ruling, Republican campaign strategists said Romney will use it to continue campaigning against "Obamacare" -- the name the GOP gave the plan in derision, though many Democrats now accept it -- and in attacking the president's signature health care program as a tax increase.

"Obama might have his law, but the GOP has a cause," said veteran campaign adviser Terry Holt. "This promises to galvanize Republican support around a repeal of what could well be called the largest tax increase in American history."

Democrats said Romney, who backed an individual health insurance mandate when he was Massachusetts governor, will have a hard time exploiting the ruling.

"Mitt Romney is the intellectual godfather of Obamacare," Democratic consultant Jim Manley said. "The bigger issue is the rising cost of health care, and this bill is designed to deal with it."

Ginsburg, an appointee of Democratic President Bill Clinton, said in her opinion that "Congress followed Massachusetts' lead."

More than eight in 10 Americans already have health insurance. But for most of the 50 million who are uninsured, the ruling offers the promise of guaranteed coverage at affordable prices. Lower-income and many middle-class families will be eligible for subsidies to help pay premiums starting in 2014.

There's also an added safety net for all Americans, insured and uninsured. Starting in 2014, insurance companies will not be able to deny coverage for medical treatment, nor can they charge more to people with health problems. Those protections, now standard in most big employer plans, will be available to all, including people who get laid off, or leave a corporate job to launch their own small business.

Seniors also benefit from the law through better Medicare coverage for those with high prescription costs, and no copayments for preventive care. But hospitals, nursing homes, and many other service providers may struggle once the Medicare cuts used to finance the law really start to bite.

Illegal immigrants are not entitled to the new insurance coverage under the law, and will remain one of the biggest groups uninsured.

Obama's law is by no means the last word on health care. Experts expect costs to keep rising, meaning that lawmakers will have to revisit the issue perhaps as early as next year, when federal budget woes will force them to confront painful options for Medicare and Medicaid, the giant federal programs that cover seniors, the disabled, and low-income people.

The health care overhaul focus will now quickly shift from Washington to state capitals. Only 14 states, plus Washington, D.C., have adopted plans to set up the new health insurance markets called for under the law. Called exchanges, the new markets are supposed to be up and running on Jan. 1, 2014. People buying coverage individually, as well as small businesses, will be able to shop for private coverage from a range of competing insurers.

Most Republican-led states, including large ones such as Texas and Florida, have been counting on the law to be overturned and have failed to do the considerable spade work needed to set up exchanges. There's a real question about whether they can meet the deadline, and if they don't, Washington will step in and run their exchanges for them.

In contrast to the states, health insurance companies, major employers, and big hospital systems are among the best prepared. Many of the changes called for in the law were already being demanded by employers trying to get better value for their private health insurance dollars.

"The main driver here is financial," said Dr. Toby Cosgrove, CEO of the Cleveland Clinic, which has pioneered some of the changes. "The factors driving health care reform are not new, and they are not going to go away."

The Medicaid expansion would cover an estimated 17 million people who earn too much to qualify for assistance but not enough to afford insurance. The federal and state governments share the cost, and Washington regularly imposes conditions on the states in exchange for money.

Roberts said Congress' ability to impose those conditions has its limits. "In this case, the financial `inducement' Congress has chosen is much more than `relatively mild encouragement' -- it is a gun to the head," he said.

The law says the Health and Human Services Department can withhold a state's entire Medicaid allotment if the state doesn't comply with the health care law's Medicaid provisions.

Even while ruling out that level of coercion, however, Roberts said nothing prevents the federal government from offering money to accomplish the expansion and withholding that money from states that don't meet certain conditions.

"What Congress is not free to do is to penalize states that choose not to participate in that new program by taking away their existing Medicaid funding," he said.

Ginsburg said the court should have upheld the entire law as written without forcing any changes in the Medicaid provision. She said Congress' constitutional authority to regulate interstate commerce supports the individual mandate. She warned that the legal reasoning, even though the law was upheld, could cause trouble in future cases.

"So in the end, the Affordable Health Care Act survives largely unscathed. But the court's commerce clause and spending clause jurisprudence has been set awry. My expectation is that the setbacks will be temporary blips, not permanent obstructions," Ginsburg said in a statement she, too, read from the bench.


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Comments
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This is a sad day for America. Just going on down the road to ruin.

-- Posted by dollbabies on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 9:41 AM

What a great day for Americans!! Thank you Supreme Court and President Obama!

-- Posted by bball15 on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 9:56 AM

All americans will now need to vote for Mitt Romney to get anything done regarding health care. Homeless and unemployed cannot afford health insurance for themselves or their families at this time. The rest of us will still have to pick up the slack and I don't know about you but my deductible has already gone up and coverage has gone down with regard to how my company is going to pay for full time employees. Basically my company has told us they will be out an extra $36,000.00 per year per employee for health care coverage. Not going to cost anything??? Right Mr. President....costing the working class plenty.

-- Posted by izzy50 on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 10:23 AM

Bottomless pit thanks to Nobama and his crew of jesters

-- Posted by Logger35 on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 10:35 AM

Final score, Obama 1, tea party nothing!

-- Posted by wrcactus on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 10:41 AM

The homeless and unemployed won't have to pay for healthcare, it will be free. As a retired person and living on a fixed income, we pay for our healthcare. And it is not cheap, and goes up once a year. Is Obama care going to help us? I doubt it.

-- Posted by dollbabies on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 10:50 AM

Question I have: under President Obama's president of picking and choosing what laws to enforce (Dream Act light) could a new president just choose not to enforce this tax?

-- Posted by SamTheEagle on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 11:37 AM

The SCOTUS has now set a precedence that Congress can tax the people for any reason at any time. If Congress decided that every person in the United States was to acquire a new car every three years, they could force that upon us and tax us appropriately. This is a VERY slippery slope.

Wake up folks. This is your freedom they are quickly taking away.

-- Posted by semorider on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 11:46 AM

So now Congress can tax us for whatever purpose they see fit. We have officially crossed the line over to a socialist/totalitarian society.

Congratulations libtards. One step closer to a complete nanny state.

-- Posted by semorider on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 11:47 AM

Our politicians help create the "crisis" and then demand that only they can "fix" it. "We have to do something!" is the standard response. The problem is, that something is almost never the correct answer. Doing "something" will get us nowhere if it is the wrong course of action (which seems to be the case 95% of the time).

If your car has a mechanical failure and will not run, does it make much sense to change the tires? It's something, right? Will it rectify the problem? NO!

Don't let these politicians run away with the excuse "we had to do something".

-- Posted by semorider on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 11:48 AM

If you've read the bill you'll notice a couple of things. First, illegal immigrants will be covered - period. No one is going to be turned away from medical care. Second, those that qualify in the 400% ABOVE poverty line will have their health care paid for by you and me.

So many liberal arguments on this have been "I'm tired of paying for those that don't carry insurance". I guess you didn't read the bill? Now you're going to pay MUCH more for everybody's insurance if you work. You will pay for those that have an income 4 TIMES the poverty level.

-- Posted by Dug on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 12:06 PM

No one should be turned away for medical care! No one! Yes, we taxpayers have to foot the bill but we have done so for years with medicaid!

-- Posted by Spinning on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 12:31 PM

Yes, we taxpayers have to foot the bill but we have done so for years with medicaid! -- Posted by Spinning on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 12:31 PM

Really? How much have we had to pay for those who didn't go to a hospital? How about "zero"? Now even if you never see a doctor or incur a single medical bill you will be forced to pay. And of course your bill you like to "foot" will be increasing dramatically.

What do you think of the 1/2 TRILLION cuts in Medicare that Obamacare has?

-- Posted by Dug on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 12:38 PM

It will now be up to Congress and our States to fight this monstrosity that is Obama Care.

Our Representative, Jo Ann Emerson will not be the one to lead the fight for the Repeal of this Act. See her exchange with President Obama and see if you'll trust her to fight for you on this issue.

http://www.semissourian.com/opinion/spea...

Her Republican Primary Opponent is Bob Parker. He will lead the fight on the total repeal of this legislation as he has fought and won many battles for our Property Rights here in Missouri. Learn more about Bob Parker at

http://www.electbobparker.com/

Research the Record and Vote your Conscience in the Primary on August 7th

-- Posted by ddshea on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 1:08 PM

STOP LYING BOB PARKER!!

you have no idea what you are talking about.

-- Posted by schoolhouserock on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 1:11 PM

Somehow I missed the constitutional ammendment that gave insurance companies the power to tax.

-- Posted by yy4me on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 1:13 PM

bball15

You have no idea what is going on. From your statement you must not work.

I believe the Supreme Court judges have just been paid off for their votes.

-- Posted by grandpa3 on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 1:14 PM

I do indeed work, and I also possess a Masters Degree...thanks Me' Lange!

-- Posted by bball15 on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 3:23 PM

no more paying for others irresponsibility -- Posted by Me'Lange on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 3:13 PM

Not going to quit refuting this mistruth. Obamacare adds 32 MILLION additional people to the federal dole. The rest of us will have to pay for that. And illegals will continue to get free health care courtesy of taxpayers.

This notion of getting rid of "irresponsibility" and being more "accountable" is a lie. We are now on the hook for $1.7 TRILLION over the next 10 years. How is that a "victory" - unless of course you're not a taxpayer.

"you are too ignorant to understand" - personal attacks? Physician heal thyself.

-- Posted by Dug on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 3:29 PM

Free healthcare, affordable healthcare, forced healthcare. That's not the main issue. The court has said the govt. can make us buy what they want us to buy. How about a chevy volt in every garage or pay a fine. You have to buy solar panels or pay a fine. There are plenty of things out there that govt. thinks we should buy, whether we want them or not

-- Posted by dhinkle57 on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 3:34 PM

A recent poll as of today reflects that the majority of the people DO NOT WANT this law. The majority will send a loud and clear message come November 2012. Obama said this would not be a tax if the man date was up held, statement made during an interview with ABC News back in 2010 well guess what as of today it will be a tax on people that do not obtain any health care coverage. People do not like the government placing man dates on them. "We the people" will make the final decision come November 2012. This will be another government bureauracy which will have to employ nearly 300,000 employees to keep up with this complicated 2700 page mess. The President also stated in his 2009 State of the Union address shortly after he was sworn in, that this law if enacted would cost 900 billion dollars over a ten year period, well the CBO says it will cost 1.7 trillion dollars over the ten year period. My question is where are we going to fine the money to finance this additional bureauracy. If the mandate had not been in this law not much would have been said about it and if both sides would have hammered out a fair piece of legislation instead what they did was hand us a mess and we will fine that out as we go.

-- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 3:49 PM

All I know is this will allow many of my friends with cancer (including myself) to continue to have coverage where as before I and they were denied!!!! Some people told us if we couldn't afford it, deserved to die. What kind of person says that? Every insurance company in America denied us because of our prior diagnosis, now we are able to PURCHASE IT ON OUR OWN at an affordible rate. YOU AREN'T paying for it, I AM. It is also going to eliminate sudden dollar limits for cancer patients or revoke coverage for someone that has been diagnosed with something (like cancer) due to the diagnosis! Before this people like me were unable to get any insurance and were forced to go without and watch the bills pile up, wait it out, listen to the bill collectors and then file bankruptcy.

-- Posted by lovemyfamily on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 4:01 PM

The illegals will even flood the borders even more now come on in everything is free the middle class suckers will pay your tab no problem at all. Need food stamps no problem, need taniff no problem, need free health care no problem, need your day care paid for no problem, you don't even have to pay income tax because guess what your here illegally, you can even vote no ID is required all courtesy of the hard working small business people and the hard working middle class people who will pay your tab you don't even have to contribute $10.00 per month all free enjoy your stay.

-- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 4:11 PM

deserved to die. What kind of person says that? -- Posted by lovemyfamily on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 4:01 PM

Only an idiot would say that. Who were they?

===========================================

YOU AREN'T paying for it, I AM. -- Posted by lovemyfamily on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 4:01 PM

So if your cancer treatment costs a million dollars, you're paying for the entire million? Or just a premium and the rest of us pick up the remaining balance. That's OK - that's the way insurance works. But you're only paying the premium - and many others are paying for the rest. The rate is "affordable" because you're not paying the costs.

I love my family too! I hate to see my kids and grandkids pick up an additional $37,000 in debt to pay for Obamacare.

-- Posted by Dug on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 4:15 PM

Sore losers!

-- Posted by Thinking for myself on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 4:18 PM

Thinking for myself: No, were not sorry losers were just tired of carrying this load while others don't contribute not one single dime to this social welfare mess were in, but still yet they have the big screen TV, Computors, Cell Phones, Lottery ticket purchases by the boat load and most of all a nice car while the rest of us are out here pulling them in the wagon up the hill at least they could get out and help pull every once in a while and at least contribute something $5.00-$10.00 per month that is not asking for much they got money for everything else. They will fine out if they don't purchase some type of insurance they will be taxed and it will be witheld from there huge $5,000-$10,000 tax refund they receive every year.

-- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 4:31 PM

What a bunch of angry people who think they know it all. These comments from some of the ultra conservative on here are just the reason I left their ranks. It is really sad that this is all you have to do to occupy yourself.

-- Posted by 3forone on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 4:55 PM

What a bunch of angry people who think they know it all. -- Posted by 3forone on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 4:55 PM

Better than knowing nothing and being happy.

You would be angry if I took $100 out of your wallet and walked away. Unless you are on welfare Obamacare will take thousands of dollars out of your wallet and you have no choice.

If you're not angry about that, then you're a hypocrite. You simply choose to put your head in the sand and act like this won't cost you anything even though your wallet just lost thousands.

-- Posted by Dug on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 5:11 PM

Dug, You are one Angry person and you know nothing about me. I am happy and not on welfare. Actually I was going to add more to your reply, but you are not worth the effort since you are blind to everything but your own agenda. Just because you believe something it sure does not make it right.

-- Posted by 3forone on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 6:04 PM

This'll get those 49% of Americans that dont pay any tax at all to cough up at least $2,000. It's about time!

-- Posted by vietnamvet on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 6:12 PM

I just think about all the innocent children with pre-existing conditions and everything else is worth it. I guess I'm a glass half full kind of person though.

Haha, sick kids getting covered? What's the world coming to? How dare Obama make sure sick people get better!

Jeeze, what happened to compassion and love thy neighbor.

-- Posted by non-believer on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 6:28 PM

What a landmark day for this great nation!

-- Posted by cognitive77 on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 6:30 PM

Actually I was going to add more to your reply, but you are not worth the effort since you are blind to everything but your own agenda. -- Posted by 3forone on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 6:04 PM

You didn't add more to your reply because you're a hypocrite. You would get angry if I took $100 out of your wallet. You're clueless that Obama just took thousands out of your wallet. You must be on welfare.

-- Posted by Dug on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 6:35 PM

This'll get those 49% of Americans that dont pay any tax at all to cough up at least $2,000. It's about time! -- Posted by vietnamvet on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 6:12 PM

No it won't. 32 million will be on this and pay nothing. Illegals will get medical care and those under 400% (4 Times) the poverty level are all exempted. The 49% just got bigger and so will your personal health care costs.

-- Posted by Dug on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 6:37 PM

Jeeze, what happened to compassion and love thy neighbor. -- Posted by non-believer on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 6:28 PM

Compassion comes from the heart - not the government. I feel better when I give my own personal money then when I steal from you and give it to someone else. That's not compassion.

-- Posted by Dug on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 6:38 PM

Okay, Dug, come up with a health care bill where people will willingly pay for the coverage of those unfortunate people who were caught in insurance scams, and I will listen to what you say. Until then, I'm glad someone did something.

Something needs to be done. Yes, the current bill needs to be perfected, but everything has a starting point.

-- Posted by non-believer on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 6:42 PM

If anyone has read this far - the one way you can tell if something is good for this country or not is whether or not a majority of SE Missourian comments are For or Against it. Vocal posters aren't exactly the paragons of progressive thinking.

Remember Kids - Republicans are only pro-life when you're in the womb. Once you're out of the womb, you're a resource-sucking liberal that deserves to die (penniless, preferably)*.

*unless you can die on the battlefield. They like that, too.

-- Posted by Jason on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 7:59 PM

Jason, great comment. The same people who complain about compassion and government spending will be the first to want to pump billions of dollars into the military.

So let him call me a hypocrite. Conservatives are the worst hypocrites out there.

-- Posted by 3forone on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 8:08 PM

Nice to see people speaking up, besides Dug, giving their opinion and presenting the other side and why this is the right thing. I agree with many of you and it's a good day in America. President Obama stuck his neck out to finally get this done after many others tried (Republicans included).

-- Posted by Username1 on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 10:02 PM

Coconut you conservatives are all alike. Military trumps everything. So the constitution says we fund the military? To what extent? For a defense or to invade sovereign countries whenever king George got a burr up his @@s? I am not sure that is what the framers of our constitution meant. The military is a over bloated bureaucracy that is in business to feed itself. All you see is the flag and bend over and say how much do you want. I would much rather have MY money go to help children and healthcare instead of building another bomb.

I also like it when you and others on here think you know everyone's background. Guess what? You are wrong. You do not have a clue as to my background

-- Posted by 3forone on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 10:03 PM

I will vote for a republican for the first time in over 30 years this next election.

-- Posted by lance623 on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 1:31 AM

I thought taxation wasn't in the constitution in ther first place, so how can you expand on it?

-- Posted by truthdetector on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 5:44 AM

I just can't believe that congress can MAKE me buy something.

-- Posted by TheOneDude on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 6:10 AM

Dug, do you have a stuttering problem? You seem to like to repeat what others have said!

-- Posted by Spinning on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 6:45 AM

Well I see where some of the Cape liberals have came out that believe the government is the answer to all of the peoples problems don't have a clue where the money will come from to pay for this mess that has been created they never think of that, just borrow it and spend it. I'm with you Dug it is hard to explain to a liberal as they walk around with blinders on 24 hours a day.

-- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 6:51 AM

I don't have kids, so for all of you who have kids and "don't want to pay for people not to die", I don't want to pay for your childrens school. How's that? Just a little joke, seriously I do want to pay for your child's education because I can see the bigger picture. Open your minds and hearts people. Jesus would agree.

-- Posted by audioJ on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 7:12 AM

Your children receiving 'free' public education, take money from my childless pocket. I love that though because to me children, (and for that matter) every child deserves an education AND the chance to go to a doctor as opposed to the ER for treatment. THAT, my friends will save some bucks and peoples lives. If you do not agree, may the good Lord have mercy on your greedy soul.

-- Posted by audioJ on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 7:17 AM

HR 3200 SEC 246 NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

I'll just leave this here....

-- Posted by Chomp on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 7:19 AM

Further, I would much prefer the for profit insurance companies NOT having the power to disqualify me for benefits if God forbid, I got sick. Insurance companies make money when people pay premiums all of thier lives and then have the ability to deny coverage. Dead people make the bottom line better than paying the cost to keep a paying customer with a major illness alive. Seriously. All of you "I don't want to government to control my healthcare" have obviously not suffered the lose of a loved on with a major illness who have been paying customers but have died due to being denied care by the very FOR PROFIT companies paid to cover thier care. Get real people.

-- Posted by audioJ on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 7:21 AM

The republicans need to thank Justice Roberts regarding the ruling he handed down yesterday on the health care act, he could have very well just handed the republicans a victory in November. The far left liberals have not figured that out yet.

-- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 7:31 AM

I just can't believe that congress can MAKE me buy something.

-- Posted by MKA001 on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 6:10 AM

Do you have auto insurance? Do you pay income taxes? You are buying roads all the time.

-- Posted by Reasoning on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 7:42 AM

Reasoning: This will be one of the largest tax increases on small business and the middle class in americas history, there is a lot of hidden tax that will be charged that is in this law I suggest you read it. Also, at the same time this year the Bush tax cuts are due to expire at the end of the year if congress don't re-new them. So if you enjoy paying all of these huge tax increases coming at you so be it. Take the blinders off and read this mess were about to go in to unless the people say different come November.

-- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 8:37 AM

*unless you can die on the battlefield. They like that, too. -- Posted by Jason on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 7:59 PM

More then twice as many soldiers have been killed in Afghanistan under Obama than Bush. Update your talking points. Mabye something like this:

"Democrats are not only pro-death when you're in the womb, they also want you to die on the battlefield. Obama likes that twice as much as Bush".

-- Posted by Dug on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 8:37 AM

So let him call me a hypocrite. Conservatives are the worst hypocrites out there. -- Posted by 3forone on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 8:08 PM

Again - twice the deaths in Afghanistan under Obama than Bush. A hypocrite twice!

-- Posted by Dug on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 8:39 AM

I would much rather have MY money go to help children and healthcare instead of building another bomb. -- Posted by 3forone on Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 10:03 PM

Then vote Obama out. He added 50,000 more troops in Afghanistan than Bush did. And killed twice as many Americans.

It amazes me that the supporters of Obama can old see color. They don't want the facts. This guy is a failure. Are you happy to pay for illegals medical coverage? You just agreed to do that. Unless you're on welfare.

-- Posted by Dug on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 8:41 AM

Dug, do you have a stuttering problem? You seem to like to repeat what others have said! -- Posted by Spinning on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 6:45 AM

I repeat what I have said. No stuttering here - you appear to have a spinning problem. How's that "Hope and Change" working out for ya? Record unemployment? Record debts? You'll have to explain this to your kids some day - not me.

-- Posted by Dug on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 8:43 AM

HR 3200 SEC 246 NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States. I'll just leave this here.... -- Posted by Chomp on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 7:19 AM

And herein lies the entire problem. Someone will read that and think - "Wow, no coverage for illegals". You couldn't be more wrong. Note this talks about "affordability credits". Looks like the democrats have pulled one over on a lot of people here. A quick lesson from someone who has read a fair amount of this bill.

For those up to 400% of the poverty line - 4 TIMES the poverty line they will get credits to make sure they don't pay for their health care. Some of us will pay for health care and others will actually get tax credits and NOT pay for health care. So the notion that now "every is accountable" is a lie.

What the section above refers to is this - Illegals can't get tax credits. Wow - how generous of democrats to at least not give them tax credits. BUT - if an illegal goes to the ER or any other medical facility - government included - they don't have to pay! You and I will pay for their medical care. Illegals get free health care - they just don't get tax credits. I believe most of the supporters of Obamacare don't have a clue what's in the bill.

You might not like the truth but I'm still going to post it. Most don't know a thing about this people. As Nancy Pelosi - your democrat leader - said "We have to pass the bill to find out what's in it". Who in the h*ll would support a numskull like her or Obama?

-- Posted by Dug on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 8:53 AM

Do you have auto insurance? Do you pay income taxes? You are buying roads all the time. -- Posted by Reasoning on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 7:42 AM

You don't have to buy auto insurance. You have to only if you drive (which is your choice) OR you have to prove you have money to cover accidents.

Income taxes are not a purchase. Geeez.

I only buy roads if I buy gas. Nothing you posted above is true. It's sad what people will convince themselves of without a shred of truth.

-- Posted by Dug on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 8:55 AM

First of all, congress MAKES you by something every day. Tanks, planes, guns, food, roads, buildings, healthcare for our troops. They don't have to ask you what you want them to buy, or every anti-war person out there would opt out of those things. Secondly, if you have no health insurance, and you break your fool neck on an ATV, or blow your foot off with your AK47, someone pays for it, and that would be the rest of us. That is the current system.

The "tax" everyone has their bowels in an uproar over applies ONLY to those NOT HAVING INSURANCE.

-- Posted by wrcactus on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 9:19 AM

The "tax" everyone has their bowels in an uproar over applies ONLY to those NOT HAVING INSURANCE. -- Posted by wrcactus on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 9:19 AM

I'm going to fight these untruths (to put it nicely) until death. 32 MILLION people will get health care under Obamacare and will NOT pay for it. THOSE NOT HAVING INSURANCE WILL NOT PAY THE TAX. Get it? 32 MILLION of them.

Go ahead and post that again - and I'll cut and paste this. People need education on this - not "mistruths" from the democrat talking points.

Oh - and don't forget the $1.7TRILLION in deficit spending this has created. That's not even covered in the "taxes".

-- Posted by Dug on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 9:25 AM

wrcactus: Take the blinders off, there is no Santa Claus on this one the working middle class and small business are going to have to pay the tab on this one, read the law. Yes my bowels are in a up roar if you ran a business you would understand why.

-- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 9:37 AM

Hey, have you ever considered that, we, the working people, understand and accept the the costs of healthcare? Maybe, we don't want the insurance companies to make the call when our lives are at risk. On their own, they have driven up their rates and are making record profits. They can do that, because they can cut you out when you become costly to them. It's wrong.

-- Posted by Username1 on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 9:45 AM

username1: Why should a certain amount of people pay for other peoples health care. Can't those people at least contribute something like $5.00 to $10.00 per month they got money for everything else. Back in the old days when a person could not pay all of the bill for a doctors visit the doctor would say pay what you can and most of the time the person would at least pay something, but since we now live in a social entitlement society I doubt that will happen. We already have a shortage of doctors in this country because many of them have stopped practicing because of all the malpractice law suits that have been filed and now what doctors we do have left now have to face this coming at them which will only create more shortages of doctors. Furthermore, the illegals are completely paid for in full that is not fair to the hard working middle class people and the businesses who will end up paying for this social entitlement mess.

-- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 10:18 AM

For those up to 400% of the poverty line - 4 TIMES the poverty line they will get credits to make sure they don't pay for their health care

Wrong.

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/...

BUT - if an illegal goes to the ER or any other medical facility - government included - they don't have to pay! You and I will pay for their medical care.

They can already go to the ER and get free healthcare now whats your point? Under the new system they can apply for unsubsidized healthcare.

http://ohmygov.com/blogs/general_news/ar...

I find it hard to believe that you've actually read this bill at all, although I suspect you'd like others to believe so.

-- Posted by Chomp on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 10:31 AM

swampeastmissouri, they sure can.

-- Posted by Username1 on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 11:18 AM

From the bill Chomp. Don't cut and past from blogs - go to the bill.

"The premium assistance credit is available for individuals (single or joint filers) with household incomes between 100 and 400 percent of the Federal poverty level ("FPL") for the family size involved who do not received health insurance through an employer or a spouse's

employer."

Get it?

-- Posted by Dug on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 11:22 AM

Again - twice the deaths in Afghanistan under Obama than Bush. A hypocrite twice!

-- Posted by Dug on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 8:39 AM

Trying to clean up a mess that was left to him by the prior administration when they took their eye off the ball and invaded a sovereign country. If the focus would have stayed on the Afghanistan war in the first place instead of deceiving congress with false data then we would have been gone a long time ago.

Also you really need to look up the word hypocrite and get a definition

hypocrite 1395 up, 493 down

(1) A person who engages in the same behaviors he condemns others for.

(2) A person who professes certain ideals, but fails to live up to them.

I have not done either of these things. Some people are just ignorant.

-- Posted by 3forone on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 11:29 AM

From the bill Chomp. Don't cut and past from blogs - go to the bill.

"The premium assistance credit is available for individuals (single or joint filers) with household incomes between 100 and 400 percent of the Federal poverty level ("FPL") for the family size involved who do not received health insurance through an employer or a spouse's

employer."

Get it?

You're being disingenuous.

The links I posted were for ease of reading, if you want me to quote directly from the bill I'll oblige you.

Again, I have no idea how someone who claimed to have actually read the health care bill would miss this.

Subtitle E Part I Subpart A Sec 36B (page 110-111)

http://housedocs.house.gov/energycommerc...

-- Posted by Chomp on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 12:33 PM

Some on here trust the government to run there health care, man are they in for a big surprise when all this mess starts two years from now unless the people say differently in the November 2012 elections which I feel very strongly they will.

-- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 2:01 PM

From the bill and your link. Keep spinning that lie:

(1) REDUCTION IN OUT-OF-POCKET LIMIT.--

(A) IN GENERAL.--The reduction in cost-sharing under

this subsection shall first be achieved by reducing the applicable

out-of pocket limit under section 1302(c)(1) in the

case of--

(i) an eligible insured whose household income is

more than 100 percent but not more than 400 percent

of the poverty line for a family of the size involved

These people don't pay their premiums. We will. Wrong again Chomp.

-- Posted by Dug on Fri, Jun 29, 2012, at 8:17 PM

Posts that favor the bill and the decision are proof they have not read the bill in its entirety or would actually understand it. They have accepted what they have been told just as they believed in the "hope and change". Well here is your change. You will have to live with the fact you favored what will lead to the destruction of our country and its economy. Keep this in mind; no government program has ever achieved its mandate.

-- Posted by jadip4me on Mon, Jul 2, 2012, at 8:01 AM


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