[SeMissourian.com] Mostly Cloudy ~ 77°F  
River stage: 17.7 ft. Rising
Tuesday, Sep. 2, 2014

Speak Out 1/20/12

Friday, January 20, 2012

No to quarries

LET'S respect the rights of the people of Fruitland to form their own village so they can do what is best for their community. Why does Jackson want to be part of quarries? In years to come could structure damage from the blasting done by these quarries bring on lawsuits to our city? If you have the Internet, do some research and you will see lots of problems caused by quarries. I say vote no on Feb. 7.

Right to wear jeans

CAPE Girardeau's school administration apparently failed to understand that along with freedom of speech, assembly, religion, press and petition, all guaranteed by the First Amendment of the Bill of Rights, there is another unwritten right that is considered equal if not superior to the others by the citizenry of this great country. It is the right to wear bluejeans.

Electric bill

I'VE quit using my dishwasher; I've turned my heat down; I've kept my blinds closed; I've cut my wash; and my dryer I turned to delicate. And I am still getting the same high electric bill at Jackson.

Fact Check
See inaccurate information in this story?

Note: The nature of the Internet makes it impractical for our staff to review every comment. If you feel that a comment is offensive, please Login or Create an account first, and then you will be able to flag a comment as objectionable. Please also note that those who post comments on semissourian.com may do so using a screen name, which may or may not reflect a website user's actual name. Readers should be careful not to assign comments to real people who may have names similar to screen names. Refrain from obscenity in your comments, and to keep discussions civil, don't say anything in a way your grandmother would be ashamed to read.

No to quarries: What does Fruitland have that Jackson doesn't have that would cause Jackson to want to take over Fruitland? If the voting citizens of both towns vote in favor of the merger so be it.

Right to wear jeans: You can wear jeans anytime that you want to except when it is against a dress code. Numerous rights have been taken away since the beginning of the USA some good some not so good.

Electric bill: Are you paying an estimated usage bill that will be adjusted later?

-- Posted by semo471 on Fri, Jan 20, 2012, at 8:36 AM

No to quarries...One can always find ammunition to support one's cause.

Right to wear jeans...Or not.

Electric bill...Well, what the heck! You gave it the ole college try didn't you? Go back to doing the same old old same thing...and leave us alone.

-- Posted by Hawker on Fri, Jan 20, 2012, at 8:56 AM

Right to Wear Jeans -

I thought you might need to be reminded what the first amendment states - see below.

I fail to see anything in the constitution that states "freedom to wear any sort of clothing - or not wear clothing" (but that could get you arrested). So the right to public nudity could also, according to your logic, be covered by the first amendment. Yes you could say wearing blue jeans or public nudity are a way to "express" yourself, but that connection to the first amendment is tenuous at best. OK - maybe a broad interpretation of the amendment could include "right to wear blue jeans" as a sort of self-expression, but then why not public nudity? If your argument holds water, then our constitutional rights ARE being abused. But, then every sign that states "no shoes, no shirts, no service", or an individuals' employer requiring "business casual" for instance, also infringes upon our rights. Sounds a bit like a slippery slope argument to me.

"Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/...

-- Posted by treegal on Fri, Jan 20, 2012, at 9:06 AM

Why would Pres. Obama say No to the Canadian pipeline into the USA and No to nearly 20,000 American jobs?

-- Posted by semo471 on Fri, Jan 20, 2012, at 9:31 AM

...and now Wheels has evolved into using suspenders...to keep his pants up! ☺

-- Posted by Turnip on Fri, Jan 20, 2012, at 11:13 AM

lol. I gave my boy a pair for Christmas, he loves them. ☺

-- Posted by Turnip on Fri, Jan 20, 2012, at 11:44 AM

-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Jan 20, 2012, at 10:08 AM

Same here, patches were a necessity, not a fashion statement.

There were no dress codes as none were needed; times change, but people need to be reasonable.

I changed schools and belts were required. My pants had no belt loops, but I had to wear a belt anyway.

My first year at SEMO, I was told jeans were not allowed. I was married with a family and drove a $200 car, but had to find the money for "appropriate attire" or leave school.

-- Posted by 356 on Fri, Jan 20, 2012, at 12:03 PM

Why would President Obama say no to the pipeline and 20,000 jobs?

Because, for one thing, it's not 20,000 jobs, not by a longshot.

Citing one source, the vice-president of Transcanada says there will likely be "hundreds" of permanent jobs provided.

Temporary construction job estimates are around 1400, which will be gone after two years.

There is much at stake, not the least of which is our water supply. It's worth taking our time.

-- Posted by grisgris on Fri, Jan 20, 2012, at 2:03 PM

-- Posted by grisgris on Fri, Jan 20, 2012, at 2:03 PM

grisgris: You mean that the media lied......what is wrong with the world.

Rick & Wheels: I still get my britches from Goodwill. As a young semo471, I didn't wear shoes till school started up.

-- Posted by semo471 on Fri, Jan 20, 2012, at 3:55 PM

-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Jan 20, 2012, at 2:17 PM

Probably about the same as you; don't mind helping those who through no fault of their own need help, but I don't like to pay for people who can contribute and don't.

-- Posted by ~~Rick on Fri, Jan 20, 2012, at 2:24 PM

Not to get into a "I was poorer than you contest" as you may win, but our patches were from jeans no longer able to be patched or cloth scraps from a local factory where my mother worked. She also made our blankets out of them and made many of our clothes.

I had three older brothers, so I know all about the hand me down thing and getting clothes from neighbors.

Thing is we were not all that much different than most with a few exceptions. We didn't go hungry as we raised our own food or shot it. We canned our produce etc.

Heck, I even walked five miles to school, up hill both ways, OK maybe no that. :-)

-- Posted by 356 on Fri, Jan 20, 2012, at 3:57 PM

356: Sounds like there were alot of us have nots. We were probably better off than the kids growing up in today's world. BTW, I had to walk only one mile each way and it was flat, guess I was lucky.

-- Posted by semo471 on Fri, Jan 20, 2012, at 4:09 PM

Electric rates - from http://www.jacksonmo.org/CityServices/Ut...

Residential meter charge (single-phase) - $12.00 per month

All KWH, per KWH - $0.0890


For comparison - good ol' Ameren - from http://www.ameren.com/sites/aue/Rates/Do...

Residential meter charge - $8.00 per month

Low-income pilot program - $0.03 per month

First 750 KWH, per KWH (winter rate)- $0.0753

Over 750 KWH, per KWH (winter rate) - $0.0502

Energy Efficiency program - $0.0004 per KWH

Fuel adjustment - unspecified, typically $3-$8 per month for residential usages.


Since the caller complains about electric, assuming electric resistance heat (baseboard or forced-air), so guessing a consumption of 2500 KWH per month -

Jackson - $234.50, plus sales / usage tax

Ameren - $161.36, plus sales / usage tax

Sometimes, Ameren doesn't look so bad :-)~

-- Posted by fxpwt on Fri, Jan 20, 2012, at 4:44 PM

-- Posted by semo471 on Fri, Jan 20, 2012, at 4:09 PM

Yeah, sometimes I wonder, we spent our lives working so our kids would have it better than us, but I am not sure we were successful. Yes, they have more "stuff", but that may not always be a good thing.

I only had to walk one mile too and there were no hills in sight.

-- Posted by 356 on Fri, Jan 20, 2012, at 4:46 PM

Well I'm glad someone on here seems to think the pipeline needs to be looked at carefully, and doesn't just assume that it is Obama being a dirty liberal. If anyone bothered to read about the pipeline they would see the Ogallala Aquifer, a major contributor of drinking and irrigation water in the U.S., would be put at risk by the pipeline. In addition to the pipeline posing environmental risks, the pipeline would also slow our progress towards the phasing out of oil as a primary fuel source. Instead of desperately searching for more oil sources we should throw more effort into developing sustainable fuel sources.

-- Posted by oomph on Fri, Jan 20, 2012, at 4:49 PM

Also I think 356 is hitting at the problem in our society; we view our kids "having it better" as having more material items. Our goal shouldn't be to provide our kids with 150 dollar jeans and 400 dollar purses, but rather to provide them with the tools needed to grow into successful adults. Too many kids today grow up without learning what it means to have character.

-- Posted by oomph on Fri, Jan 20, 2012, at 4:55 PM

Yes, what happened with Solyndra was stupid, but to say they represent the entire body of companies and researchers in the alternative energy sector is also stupid. I agree Solyndra was a fiasco, but at the same time companies like GE and Siemens are also spending fair amounts of money in the alternative energy arena, and I have few problems with these two companies. If we allow the Solyndra case to derail all alternative energy R and D, then we are making a dangerous mistake.

-- Posted by oomph on Fri, Jan 20, 2012, at 5:07 PM

Nuclear lost a bit of luster with me after reading a couple of articles suggesting that construction cost overruns in many of the more recent (7 of 8) cases came in at 100% to 200% over the initial estimates.

So if this were to hold true with the proposed Ameren Callaway II plant, the original estimates of $6-$9 billion - which in itself represents pretty much the current asset value of the entire Ameren Corporation - could end up in the $12 to $27 billion range.

Given the claimed 1.2 million electric customers - only about $10,000 - $22,500 invested per customer on average for one power plant. Hmmmm, wonder where the money to pay that amount back would come from?

-- Posted by fxpwt on Fri, Jan 20, 2012, at 5:54 PM

First I haven't said there aren't pipelines in the area, but rather that the Keystone Pipeline poses possible risks which need to be evaluated more thoroughly. As to your statement that Solyndra is not isolated; I never said it was. What I have said is that we shouldn't base our view of an entire industry on a few cases of misdoing. To say we take one step forward and five back is fine, but meaningless unless you want to back that up. We can go round and round cherry picking cases of industrial malpractice to show why we should stop supporting certain industries. Lastly, your statements about GE and Siemens don't matter. I said these two companies were working on developing alternative energy sources and were being responsible. Also maybe you should back up your claims that they use tax dollars to fund R and D.

-- Posted by oomph on Fri, Jan 20, 2012, at 6:07 PM


Thanks for the breakdown.

My electric bites in Jackson :(

This month it was over $200 last month is was around $180. We have turned things off, unplugged all that good stuff. Nothing changes......I want a little bitty house.....see if that changes anything.

-- Posted by lovemyfamily on Fri, Jan 20, 2012, at 8:14 PM

How could there be a true result in the South Carolina primary on Saturday when the voting for the 4 Republican candidates can be by Democrats and Independents as well as Republicans.

-- Posted by semo471 on Fri, Jan 20, 2012, at 10:16 PM

I agree. I have done everything to cut down my bill. To top it off nobody is home all day. I live in a 2 bedroom apartment and my bill is usually around $200, never under $150. When I have called to question the bill Jackson city collectors are not helpful and are down right rude at times. I miss the days a Ameren!!! Almost worth moving out of Jackson.

-- Posted by trn01 on Fri, Jan 20, 2012, at 11:26 PM

Rick the pipeline will be a buried pipeline, sitting at around 4 feet of depth, and given depth it is a concern that the pipeline may cause benzene contamination of the aquifer. Second you have once again made a statement with no backing (more failures than successes). I can look up the information, and upon doing so find that your statement are erroneous. Once again I find you present opinion as fact in an attempt to save your sinking ship of an argument.

-- Posted by oomph on Sat, Jan 21, 2012, at 9:19 AM

For those having electric resistance heat, suggest the biggest single opportunity to reduce the bill is with the thermostat.

Reviewing my bills from the days of the electric furnace during December, January, and February - estimate that 75-82% of the electric used was for climate control.

Suggest to have a look at one's bills from the April, May, September, and October periods - typically the months with the lowest demands for climate control (A/C or heat). The difference between those bills and the current ones could be used to guesstimate the cost of staying warm (winter) or cool (summer).

Suggest the least-uncomfortable gains are to drop the thermostat out the bottom if no one is at home for several hours of the day, and to drop it several degrees while asleep.

Aside from that, one source cites that each degree lowered is worth about 3% - a matter of finding the least-unacceptable balance between physical and financial discomforts.

If one has an electric water heater - another opportunity - figured once that each gallon costs between one and two cents to heat, likely closer to two cents given Jackson's rates.

Consider that there will likely be no single 'a-ha' finding that will make one's bill tolerable - it will be the sum of all the incremental changes - a couple-percent here and there all adding up.

And, if the month is usually cold, like Dec2000, Jan2003, Jan2004, Jan2009, and Jan2011 were, just gonna has to grimace-and-bear-it.

-- Posted by fxpwt on Sat, Jan 21, 2012, at 10:06 AM

Solyndra is another example of poor vetting of info by the powers to be. If this Congress can't agree on anything, then it ought to be dissolved and start over.

-- Posted by semo471 on Sat, Jan 21, 2012, at 10:12 AM

This month it was over $200 last month is was around $180. We have turned things off, unplugged all that good stuff. Nothing changes......I want a little bitty house.....see if that changes anything.

-- Posted by lovemyfamily on Fri, Jan 20, 2012, at 8:14 PM

As far as the little bitty house, don't count on it being cheaper. Our house is a ranch style and is a little less than a 1,000 sq. feet.

We have a gas furnace and a gas water heater, and our electric bill still runs about $120 a month in the winter time. Don't even get me started on the electric bill during the summer while running the A/C.

-- Posted by SpankTheTank on Sat, Jan 21, 2012, at 10:48 AM

Intending to share what can be done, rather than the showing-off which some may perceive - picked a couple of months with similar average daily outdoor temperatures, one from my pre-energy-awareness fixation, and one more recent.

Both Feb2001 and Dec2011 showed average daily temperatures of about 40degF. Since the Ameren billing periods have ranged from 28 to 34 days, find the need to break things down to a per-day basis for an equitable comparison.

Feb2001 electric consumption - averaged 76.7 KWH at a cost of $3.92 per day.

Dec2011 electric consumption - averaged 44.6 KWH at a cost of $3.44 per day.

Same house, same number of occupants. Numerous equipment/appliance and lifestyle changes involved through the years - some of which were cheap-n-easy-n-willing, others not so much.

-- Posted by fxpwt on Sat, Jan 21, 2012, at 11:17 AM

"...little startups around the country who failed leaving their customers with proprietary control boards and other parts that could not be replaced."-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sat, Jan 21, 2012, at 11:56 AM

Wheels - a more recent example near-n-dear to me is the Acadia heatpump offered by Hallowell International in Maine.

Intrigued by its claim of a booster loop that offered full heat output down to zero degrees and below, researched during my electric furnace to heat pump change.

Deal-killers for me were the $4,000 difference between it and a conventional high-efficiency heat pump, the need for that low-temperature feature in the S.E.MO climate, and that the nearest dealer was in Springfield, MO.

Now out-of-business, assumed due to the high failure rates of their units - http://bangordailynews.com/2011/02/01/bu..., with the few existing customers struggling to keep their investment going - http://www.savemyacadia.org/

Suggest the technology will eventually come around - offering relief to those in the northern U.S.. It seems the technology just wasn't ready for prime-time, yet.

-- Posted by fxpwt on Sat, Jan 21, 2012, at 12:39 PM

This poster of the past kind of made an ash of herself and disappeared.-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sat, Jan 21, 2012, at 1:22 PM

Wheels: You need to use spell check, "ash" was misspelled;-)

With so many of these "sock puppets" one wonders exactly how many different posters are there on this forum.

-- Posted by semo471 on Sat, Jan 21, 2012, at 1:30 PM

I remember all of the dire predictions about the Alaska Pipeline and of course the ongoing debate on drilling just about anywhere there actually is oil and let's not forget oil shale, oil sand and so on.

-- Posted by 356 on Sat, Jan 21, 2012, at 2:19 PM

Oh and I am pretty sure we were supposed to be out of oil by now, population too high to support, frozen to death and now killed by global warming or climate change, California under water and so on and so on.

I haven't looked up today, but I have it on good authority the sky really is falling this time, no really.

-- Posted by 356 on Sat, Jan 21, 2012, at 2:22 PM

2012 would be as good a year as any ☺-- Posted by ~~Rick on Sat, Jan 21, 2012, at 2:37 PM

Rick: That's what I have been reading, 2012 starts the cycle of major solar flares. When one is announced headed for earth, turn your GPS,cell phones and computers off to save them. Wonder if aluminum foil (shinning side out) on windows will help, maybe that's what the subject of a speakout caller was doing.

Wheels: Sounds like your are still on top of the HVAC latest.

-- Posted by semo471 on Sat, Jan 21, 2012, at 3:12 PM

Wheels - not sure if it was careful thought or just dumb luck that I didn't end up with that Acadia system. Too many things just didn't 'feel' right, but at the time (~2007) there were nothing but glowing reviews for this system and its competitor, the very short-lived Nyle Cold Climate Heat Pump. Wasn't until about 2009 that the fall-out really started becoming known, with Hallowell eventually going down and Nyle apparently bailing out early on.

In case you haven't already guessed :-)~ - feeling pretty good about the choice to go with the conventional name-brand higher-efficiency air-to-air heat pump, rated at 15.0 SEER and 9.0 HSPF, just enough to qualify for the then $300 tax credit.


Out of curiousity, took the Feb2001 usage stated in the 1117 post and ran it through the current Ameren rate schedule to get a feel for what the rate and sales / usage tax increases have done - came up with $5.45 per day. Perhaps not so bad across a 10-year period, until one considers that the rates and taxes were essentially unchanged until 2008.


Continuing with the trivial drool, had a thought about getting a home generator to offset the rash of power outages incurred during past winters - ice storms, etc. Figured the focus on energy efficiency would help keep the generator size down - after all, running a 10KW electric furnace in addition to the typical household usage would call for a big, more-expensive, fuel-drinkin' hoss. The heat pump runs at about 2.5-2.8KW, so back in the ballpark of reasonable.

No natural gas out here, gasoline or diesel-fueled would require a lot of nurturing, so propane looked like the winning ticket. Didn't want a propane tank sitting around wrecking the natural beauty nor wanted to shuttle 100-pound cylinders around, so investigated the below-ground tanks - which got into the periodic inspections required. Low propane usage rates would also mean higher per-gallon delivered costs. Then, there was the installation of the transfer switch so's one doesn't backfeed to light up the neighborhood or some unsuspecting lineman. Ugh, nothing's easy anymore.

Between the troubles and the costs for what would amount to only a few hours per year - something said, 'stop!'. Later found that many household generators deliver a 'dirty' power - lots of harmonics and spikes and noise - which can wreak havoc with electronics such as those found on compressor circuit and variable speed blower controls.

Again, sometimes better to be lucky than good. :-)

-- Posted by fxpwt on Sat, Jan 21, 2012, at 6:46 PM

Wheels, some people are just naturally bent out of shape. Just accept the fact and proceed forth unfazed.

-- Posted by voyager on Sun, Jan 22, 2012, at 8:31 AM

Respond to this story

Posting a comment requires free registration. If you already have an account on seMissourian.com or semoball.com, enter your username and password below. Otherwise, click here to register.


Password:  (Forgot your password?)

Your comments:
Please be respectful of others and try to stay on topic.