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Bill proposes public smoking ban in Missouri

Wednesday, February 3, 2010

Some lawmakers in Missouri say a piece of legislation filed last week calling for a smoke-free state is a bill promoting good health throughout the state.

As it's written, the bill would ban smoking in restaurants, bars, and numerous other public venues.

With the support of the American Cancer Society and the American Heart and Lung Association, Rep. Jill Schupp, D-Creve Coeur and co-sponsor of the bill, said the time is right for the bill to be passed by the House of Representatives. The bill has yet to be assigned to a committee.

"I think the bill really protects people in the workplace. When jobs are really hard to find, a lot of people don't really have a choice where they want to go to work," Schupp said. "Putting this legislation in place makes them stay healthy."

Schupp said the bill is different from others proposed before it, in that it doesn't allow for many exemptions. Currently, the bill allows for two -- 20 percent of hotel rooms in a hotel can be smoking rooms and smoking is allowed in any business where the primary source of income is from tobacco products.

However, critics say the proposal may not make much headway.

"I'm still not convinced this is the year that happens," Senate President Pro Tem Charlie Shields told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. He said restaurant owners, already facing economic challenges, would likely oppose the bill.

For Cape Girardeau's Pilot House Catering, where three-fourths of the clientele are smokers, manager Tommy Kilburn said the smoking ban wouldn't be a good move. The whole restaurant, about 1200 square feet, allows smoking, he said, and doesn't offer a nonsmoking section.

"But I don't see it hurting us that bad. It may be a pain for the customers, but I think they'll still come out," Kilburn said.

Stephanie Clark, owner of Broussard's Cajun Cuisine in Cape Girardeau, said the ban would be devastating to Missouri, just as it was in Illinois. Illinois' ban on smoking in public places took effect Jan. 1, 2008.

It's a liberty issue, Clark said, and if the bill is going to be passed, it should be passed without any exemptions.

"I'm a nurse too, so I understand the effects of chronic disease, but I also understand people make a choice to enter an establishment," Clark said. "To mom-and-pop businesses like us, we're already competing with corporate places. If we're going to do this, let's do it for everyone."

Schupp said the intent is to not hurt businesses, adding that in states where there's already been a smoking ban businesses aren't closing. The bigger problem, she said, is that different cities are adopting "patchwork" laws, where consumers don't know where they're allowed to smoke or not smoke.

"When we do this statewide, there is no other neighborhood place to go where you can find smoking allowed," she said. "I don't think the facts bear out that this will hurt businesses."

ehevern@semissourian.com

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While they are at it why not ban smoking at the gas pumps. I cannot tell you how many idiots, yes idiots I have seen with a smoke hanging out of their mouth while pumping gas with other patrons and their families around. Talk about a public safety issue. I just drive on down to the next station because you won't be reading about my rear getting charred at some gas pump because some idiot thought it was their right to pump gas and smoke.

Now before any smokers gets their underwear in a wad, if you smoke and DON'T pump gas at the same time you are not an idiot.

-- Posted by gman on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 8:04 PM

One word: SNUS.

Oh yeah, and **** you Rep. Jill Schupp, D-Creve Coeur.

-- Posted by Lumpy on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 8:35 PM

Devastating is RIDICULOUS. If you can't smoke in ANY restaurant and bar, then EVERY restaurant and bar is on EVEN ground. I guarantee any loss in hardcore smokers will be MORE than made up in people that don't smoke.

Site your source Stephanie Clark; Illinois restaurants are not suffering from a smoking ban; they are suffering because of the economic environment/ socialist state that is has become.

If a person can't NOT smoke for an hour to have lunch at a few hours to hang out a bar, then they need to get some help.

-- Posted by variable on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 8:55 PM

So now all the bars are going to change from bars to smoke shops, selling a $20 cigar and giving away 4 free beers with every purchase.

Thanks for taking care of us idiots, Mommy Schupp!!!

-- Posted by John in Jackson on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 10:02 PM

Rep. Schupp is wrong when she says a statewide ban won't hurt Missouri businesses. The Illinois Licensed Beverage Association says mom and pop bars across Illinois are hurting due to the smoking ban. Economists with St. Louis Federal Reserve Bank has determined that the Illinois smoking ban cut casino revenues 20 percent. Casinos in the middle of the state were hurt most.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/wp/2009/2...

USA TODAY did a story last month on bars in Illinois, New York and Ohio that ignore the ban to stay in business. All have statewide bans:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009...

Check out a list of over 500 Ohio establishments that ignore the Ohio smoking ban. Would they break the law if their businesses weren't hurting?

http://www.smokechoke.com/

-- Posted by BillHannegan on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 10:59 PM

I agree that a smoking ban in restaurants is not a bad thing. I smoke but I NEVER light up in a restaurant out of respect for others. Nor, do I want anybody else to. But, bars, casinos and private clubs are a totally different thing. If a bar wants to be smoke-free, that ought to be the choice of the bar owner. (Good luck.) Law enforcement has plenty to worry about without having to try and catch people smoking in a bar. Get real.

-- Posted by JungleJim on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 11:15 PM

A study by University of Wisconsin economists found that smoking bans cut bar employment even when imposed statewide.

http://www.bepress.com/bejeap/vol7/iss1/...

-- Posted by BillHannegan on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 11:44 PM

I am not a smoker myself but I still think that banning it from bars is a terrible idea.

I don't think that there will be a huge rush of non-smokers out to fill up all those empty seats. Anyone believing that is mistaken.

If you look at some of the statistics published online it appears that decreases in revenue between 5% and 20% are common in other places which have enforced these bans. Go on... Google it.

-- Posted by Tech_Dude on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 11:53 PM

What's next?

Instead of working on getting people back to work this is the bull crap that our state government is working on. Come on folks get your heads out of your behinds and work on the economy.

-- Posted by mynameismud on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 1:15 AM

I personally would go to the Pilot house if it did not stink like smoke. What gives you smokers the right to blow your proven cancerous smoke on us non smokers. If you ever quit then you will realise just how bad your smoke onnoys the rest of us and be ashamed of yourselfs for being that inconsiderate of othjers. You can smoke outside and go ahead and kill yourself it is your body to do with as you wish. But why do I haave to put up with it. PI am proud that MS Schupp has the guts to do something and is not in the pocket of the tobacco industry.

-- Posted by nocomment on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 6:02 AM

You hear the same things over and over again about how a smoking ban will hurt business, then the ban goes forward, and guess what....businesses prosper without any problem. In Ca. even the fraternal organizations(Eagles, Elks, VFW, etc.)are subject to the ban, as the law protects all/any employee so they would not be subjected to second hand smoke. In Ireland they went cold turkey over night, and it hasn't hurt business, not even in the famous pubs.

-- Posted by Mr."H" on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 6:47 AM

Glad Im still smoke free. Again, more ignorant laws restricting the freedom of business owners to

make their own decisions.

-- Posted by GREYWOLF on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 7:18 AM

This isn't about "the right to smoke", or health concerns. This is about the state deciding what activities the owner of private property can and cannot allow.

Go ahead and cheer. This is not very far removed from the state legislating morality in your own home.

-- Posted by Lumpy on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 8:09 AM

THE LAND OF THE FREE ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????

-- Posted by Loophole on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 8:15 AM

The problem is that those who smoke have the option of going outside,etc. to endulge in their nasty and unhealthly habit. Those of us who do not smoke, have no choice in the matter. When we sit in a restaurant or bar where someone is smoking, we are FORCED to inhale their smoke. We cannot escape from it or its affects on us. That is the bottom line! When you put this in its proper perspective, smokers are choosing to harm innocent victims each and every time they smoke in public places. How can this possibly become a concern over business and the bottom dollar? What dollar amount can be placed on increasing someone's cancer risk against their will by exposing them to second-hand smoke?

-- Posted by my_thoughts on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 8:18 AM

I somewhat agree with variable's comment. Why can't someone can't go to dinner with friends/family for an hour and not smoke? If the ban goes through, all people would have to do is step outside for a few minutes, suck on their cancer stick then come back inside.

-- Posted by teacher_guy11 on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 8:19 AM

This is not about freedom of choice!

This is about common sense!

I think we all know that jumping off a cliff will most likely kill you, as a matter of fact most states put up signs and even fences to keep you from getting too close the the edge of things like that.

I don't hear anyone complaining about those signs and fences!

Good Lord man...we now know the danger of smoking and second hand smoke, but people persist in continuing to smoke! Why for God's sake!

Would you load a .357 revolver with one cartridge and then spin the cylinder and put it to your head time after time and pull the trigger...because you perceive it to be a "right"?

For all of you who persist in smoking, have you ever watched anyone die from lung cancer or emphysema?

Where I come from you don't have to be very bright to reach the conclusion that smoking is very bad for you!

-- Posted by Walkenstick on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 8:34 AM

I have been smoke free for nearly 2 years now. Even when I did smoke I didn't do it in an eating establishment out of respect for others. However, can you please pass a law banning screaming kids from restaurants. To me this is much more annoying than someone smoking. We were at Dexter BBQ a couple of weeks ago. We were there about 45 minutes and some kid was screaming the whole time. We didn't have to bring this to the attention of the waitress, she kept apologizing the whole time we were there. If I had a business that depended on the public support and thought that banning smoking would help my business, it would be a no-brainer to ban smoking. I wouldn't need the govt to tell me what to do. What will be next? Oh, how about controlling the fat content in foods. The same people complainig that this country is heading toward socialism are some of the same people advocating smoking bans. Make up your mind.

-- Posted by howdydoody on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 8:41 AM

I've been to bars in states that have banned smoking. Sure, the smell of smoke is gone, but it is also no longer covering up the stench of body odor and stale beer. I don't smoke, by cigarette smell is the least offensive in overcrowded, overheated, humid bars.

Be kind to smokers - they won't be around much longer!

-- Posted by qzerp on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 9:38 AM

I'm sick and tired of the stinch of smoke clinging to my clothes. I'm sick and tired of the self-righteous attitudes of smokers who throw their cigarette butts out of the car windows where there might be gasoline on the ground. I'm sick and tired of watching people juggle their cell phone in one hand and a cigarette in another hand while they are pumping gas. I'm sick and tired of my health insurance premiums increasing to pay for the health problems of smokers. I want a ban on the sale of cigarettes in MO! I want hefty fines for people caught smoking anywhere. Smoking just doesn't cause cancer. Second hand smoke reduces IQ in children.

-- Posted by Beaker on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 10:19 AM

Stinky places like the Pilot House and Broussard's may see an increase in business-- I like the food at both places but feel like I'm eating it out of an ashtray when I'm there -- I come out stinkin' from head to toe. So I don't go. There's other less stinky bbq places and Tractor's actually has a decent bowl of etouffee.

I think it should be up to the individual businesses to decide though.

-- Posted by TommyStix on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 10:34 AM

Guess what TommyStix, Tractors has a smoking area in which to enjoy that etouffee.

For years we have watched our liberties be taken away one after the other. I don't like to see anyone die but it is afterall inevitable. Whether it is sooner or later is not always due to the choices we make in life....sometimes it is. I've had family and friends that smoke, drink, and run around with women (or men) ever since I've known and some die early, some seem to last forever. My grandmother died of lung cancer at an early age and she never did any of the above,and for you second hand smoke fans, was never around it. This is just one of the many examples I could tell you about at another time.

Anyway, we are getting many laws and bans in our lives. I can see some regulations if we are hurting others by our actions. But who else am I hurting by not wearing my seatbelts? Who else am I hurting by not wearing a motorcycle helmett? Why is everyone so up in the air about banning smoking that MAY kill you in the future but not many are concerned at the same level about drinking that can kill you immediately, either by automobile, gun, knife, etc. And it can take you out right now.

Let Americans live their lives like we used to. All these things that are going to kill us didn't stop the earth's population from growing by leaps and bounds and banning literally everything that could hurt you isn't going to stop dying or population growth. It isn't letting us live free. We are becoming the home of the brave and the land of the banned.

-- Posted by horsie on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 12:30 PM

If you don't like the smell on your clothing, go somewhere that is non smoking only. Oh, but wait, why should you have to give up your right to go to your chosen restaurant, bar, etc? Your rights should never be infringed upon. Apparently, it is only acceptable for people that smoke to have their rights stepped on. Hmmm... Interesting how that works, isn't it?

-- Posted by all_i_hear_is_blah_blah on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 12:41 PM

Has there been some law passed that is forcing non smokers to patronize bars and restuarants that allow smoking? From some of the comments that I am reading, apparently there is.

-- Posted by FreedomFadingFast on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 1:57 PM

Dear Lord, Let our true and honest government save us all!!! I'm sure all you do-gooders have your own place in Heaven, and all the rest of us can go to hell.

-- Posted by perryjb65 on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 2:00 PM

Overweight people feed their addictions with high fat foods. Then, their health problems become our problems. Alcoholics feed their addictions with, well, booze. Then, their health problems and their drinking and driving results in death and maming. Smokers feed their addiction w/ tobacco. Their health problems then become our health problems. I have an idea. Let's ban all fat people from eating fattening food. Keep drinkers from their booze and ban smokers from all public places. Hey, in Arkansas, if you smoke in your car and have a non-smoking passenger, you get a ticket. Let's just roll with this why don't we?!

-- Posted by kcgirl1 on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 2:58 PM

Almost all the studies showing that smoking bans don't hurt business have been done by public health people, not economists. When real economists look at the effects of smoking bans they find economic harm.

http://www.forbes.com/2009/06/04/economi...

-- Posted by BillHannegan on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 3:48 PM

Question 1. Does everyone here agree smoking is proven to cause cancer? If so, go to Question 2. If not get your head out off behind.

Question 2. Since cancer is bad, would we all agree that passing cancer on to another person is as bad? If so, go to Question 3. If not you are insane.

Question 3. Is it a crime to knowingly pass HIV on to another person? If YES then go to Question 4. If you think not, go to Google; The answer is YES.

READ THIS. This is the important point. All of you who are squaking about whining kids and food fat level note this. THAT SORT OF THINGS HURTS ONLY THE PERSON DOING IT, NOT OTHERS!!!!!

Question 4. Would it be OK with you that an HIV infected bartender, knowingly bled into your drinks and bar snacks.

I can keep this up all day, but MOST of you get the point. This IS NOT a civil liberties issue. You would not allow me to walk into a restaurant and open up a case of weapons grade plutonium EVERY DAY would you???

How about this smokers. Next time you are enjoying a evening in a restaurant with friends, perhaps a loved one, I will come over to you table and flatulate. I'll do this every seven to ten minutes. Would this annoy you? Why? It's not cancer causing. It's not illegal. It's all natural.

-- Posted by variable on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 4:26 PM

"... those who smoke have the option of going outside,etc. to endulge in their nasty and unhealthly habit. Those of us who do not smoke, have no choice in the matter. When we sit in a restaurant or bar where someone is smoking, we are FORCED to inhale their smoke."

Um ... Sorry that smokers are forcing people to go to restaurants & bars where smoking is allowed. Really, there oughta be a law against that!

Great response to that concept, all_i_hear ... and DTower ... Makes me wonder, though ... If apparently most non-smokers are frequenting smoking establishments, does that mean that having a smoking ban will make little or no difference in that group of patrons, but will probably reduce the number of smokers eating out, or going to the bars?

And thanks to BillHannigan for doing some of the research on how smoking bans have actually hurt businesses. A daughter in IL, with friends in the restaurant business, knew the advere effects within a year. In her city, the VFW and Eagles Clubs have suffered even more than private businesses. One thing that isn't considered is how the loss of patronage has effected that state's tax base.

No point in continuing to try to convince government-brain-washed people that the 'second-hand-smoke' concept was a brilliant idea that has never actually been proven true ... but it has been effective in the primary objective of getting support for higher taxation. But lest some forget or don't realize: All the 'nasty smokers' are benefiting many programs with those ridiculously high taxes ...

-- Posted by gurusmom on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 5:03 PM

variable,

Answer 1: Sometimes smoking causes cancer in those individuals that use cigarettes. Smokers also have a much, much lower rate of Parkinson's and Alzheimer's diseases. Yes, my head is in my ***.

Answer 2: Cancer is not contagious. Yes, I am technically insane.

Answer 3: I always learn new things on my many internet adventures. Today, I learned that Hitler also had an aversion to smoking, and that the Nazis seriously cracked down on it through numerous smoking ban laws.

Answer 4: The alchohol in the drink would effectively kill the weak HIV virus. No, it wouldn't be okay with me if a bartender bled in my drink. Actually this is one of my many phobias, which is why I stick to drinking canned Stag, and sniffing glue for kicks.

Answer to the Super Dooper Bonus Question: I am not the kind of guy you would want to challenge to a farting contest. My **** stinks so bad that it will burn the hair off of your eyeballs.

Thanks for reminding me why I don't go out in public.

-- Posted by Lumpy on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 5:40 PM

The owners who worry about the bottom line do not realize how much business they miss when they allow smoking. There are many businesses that I never enter for one reason--they stink, and I know that that stink means they are unhealthy.

-- Posted by russrat on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 6:39 PM

Only one thing to say.....

KISSING A SMOKER IS LIKE LICKING AN ASHTRAY...YUK!

-- Posted by Walkenstick on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 7:27 PM

One of the many studies across the nation. But this one is local, and in a city very much like Cape Girardeau.

The Economic Impact of a Smoking Ban in Columbia, Missouri: A Preliminary Analysis of Sales Tax Data - Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

http://research.stlouisfed.org/regecon/o...

-- Posted by ParkerDaws on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 7:56 PM

One of the many studies across the nation. But this one is local, and in a city very much like Cape Girardeau.

The Economic Impact of a Smoking Ban in Columbia, Missouri: A Preliminary Analysis of Sales Tax Data - Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

http://research.stlouisfed.org/regecon/o...

-- Posted by ParkerDaws on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 7:56 PM

Walkenstick: Have you really licked an ash tray or were you trying to make a point? I have done one, but not the other.

-- Posted by howdydoody on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 8:02 PM

if a non smoking bar would be more profitable why do many bars allow smoking sounds to me like it would cut into the profits. I lived in Calif.(unfortuneately way back when they started this mess) I had no choice as I was stationed there. I kind of now which I would have stayedAT the time I wasyoung and dumb proably stilldumb.I didn't realize then that while I wouldn't be able to smoke I would now be able to go smoke pot in a smoking room (strictly medicinal). and guess what thats legal Just think if the little old lady walked out in front of my car (after leaving pot heaven) It wouldn't be my fault

-- Posted by adifferant1 on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 8:26 PM

If this is a "health" issue, will these legislators also be deciding which foods these establishments may serve as well?

Because most of it is just as unhealthy as the cigarettes...

I'm so tired of hearing about this... It's so ignorant on so many levels...

It's unfair to workers in the drive-thru to be forced to inhale carbon monoxide repeatedly during their day as well, where's the law to shut down all the drive-thrus????

Once again, our "representatives" are tackling the MOST IMPORTANT ISSUES at hand.....

-- Posted by the_eye on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 8:31 PM

There are some bars in smoking ban states in which the patrons all pitch in to pay any fine handed down by the state, and puff away.

I see a potential money maker in a private, smokers' speakeasy if MO goes full blown cigarette Nazi. By going underground I could avoid all sorts of dumb *** regulations.

-- Posted by Lumpy on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 8:35 PM

There is no constitutional right to smoke. It's not a right.

-- Posted by Ike on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 8:48 PM

Howdydoody,

No actually I have not licked an ashtray, but I have kissed a couple of smokers in my life.

Smokers breath turns me off even more than the smell of my clothes after going somewhere that smoking is allowed!

The only habit that I know of that is nastier is chewing tobacco. YUK

-- Posted by Walkenstick on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 9:16 PM

People are ignorant if they think that smoking doesn't cause lung cancer. I was driving yesterday and saw some lady smoking with her window barely cracked and she had a baby in the backseat strapped in. This is ridiculous and I can't believe people expose others to smoking. Smoke at home, smoke in your car, but don't smoke in restaurants. I know that we live in the land of the free, but right now we are only hurting ourselves. You keep smoking, running up medical bills and then on top of this you are exposing others to your bad environment and then their medical bills increase. I'm for the smoking ban.

-- Posted by ihatecancer on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 10:07 PM

variable,

I'm trying to process your statement about how Illinois restaurants are suffering b/c of how socialist their state has become -- but NOT b/c their state has instituted a smoking ban on private businesses. I guess I'm a little slow, but I thought the opposite of socialism was capitalism -- a system in which private citizens have the right to allow what the see fit in their establishments, where market demand dictates whether or not permitting smoking is good for their bottom line -- not a heavy handed government mandate.

-- Posted by retardedemmanuel on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 10:59 PM

People who smoke are poor and gross :(

-- Posted by dixiewrecked on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 11:03 PM

I am addicted to tobacco products. Yes, addicted. I do not know of any person who smokes just for leisure. Instead of addressing the right to smoke in various places. Let's address the issue of addiction. It is scientifically proven nicotine is the strongest addictive substance there is. Therefore, instead of putting restrictions on the places you can smoke, why not make all tobacco products illegal. Various cancers, emphysema, and harm from second hand smoke would be erradicated all together and I would have no other choice than to quit. Ahh, but wait! What would that do to the economy? No more tobacco farmers, job loss, big tobacco companies would go under, and let's not forget all the revenue generated from taxes on tobacco products. Loss of revenue in the medical community. What about all these large cigarette company contributions to various medical facilities and dont forget the political aspect. Hmmm. A lot of people are very rich from my little old cigarette addiction and if we all quit smoking what a disaster on the economy. This is just another ploy by the government to accomodate "certain" groups. So my cigarette smoke will just be somewhere else clogging up the atmosphere and you will be happy. It still doesn't address the fact that millions die every year from smoking! From a drug the government knows is harmful! Just like every other drug in the world, the revenue from the addicts supplies every government agency there is with MONEY!!! MY cigarette addiction pays for new schools, roads ,hospitals, and everything else under the sun. So instead of bashing me for smoking...do something to ban the manufacturing of tobacco products altogether. Good Luck!

-- Posted by Cinnzenno on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 11:23 PM

Sidenote:The first tobacco ban was imposed by the Nazi Party under direct orders from Adolf Hitler.

-- Posted by Cinnzenno on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 11:28 PM

Om god if you wanna smoke do it in your own home!

-- Posted by Jax12 on Thu, Feb 4, 2010, at 1:06 AM

Gurusmom, check out this Forbes Magazine article on the economic harm caused by smoking bans:

http://www.forbes.com/2009/06/04/economi...

-- Posted by BillHannegan on Thu, Feb 4, 2010, at 2:08 AM

Here's the source of the bans, Johnson and Johnson, makers of Chantix, Nicoderm, and other quit smoking drugs. As can be seen, the ACS and the ALA get millions from them to support smoking bans.

http://www.rwjf.org/publichealth/product...

And where the money is going: Note on page seven, the "inside out" provision promising to return later for the patios AFTER business owners spend thousands to build them for their many smoking customers, clearly showing that they have absolutly no concern about local businesses

http://www.no-smoke.org/pdf/CIA_Fundamen...

-- Posted by generalsn on Thu, Feb 4, 2010, at 7:45 AM

Yeah lets ban smoking everywhere and make tobacco illegal! Gee, who will make up the huge tax base the Government will loose? All you do gooders forgot about that impact didn't you! It was also our first exported product and certainly helped make this Country great! It is still a huge export product and the taxes it creates is astronomical. Yal wanna blame cancer on tobacco thats fine. Cancer is caused by many things. Stress, irratations, certain chemicals etc.

You second hand smoke suckers ought to gripe more about the air you breathe outside here in Cape because it is filled with far mor toxic chemicals than a few people smoking cigs. There must be 10 thousand cars and trucks driving around Cape as we speak filling our air with far more cancer causing substances then a bar or restaurant with smokers seated within!

Many people live into there late 90s smoking tobacco. Again, this law infringes upon the rights of business owners. I am so tired of hearing all you people who want this law and that law passed. We HAVE ENOUGH **** LAWS and more than enough fools and tyrants making them up!

If you do not like smokers go to a restaurant that is smoke free! I do and I enjoy my meals out when I can afford it. Yes smoking has been found to be a health risk. Geez what the f--k isn't a health risk for Gods sake. Quit griping and start thinking smart! NO MORE RIDICULOUS laws. It won't be long before there will be NO such thing as the pursuit of happiness and freedom for all!

-- Posted by GREYWOLF on Thu, Feb 4, 2010, at 12:30 PM

This is not about freedom of choice!

This is about common sense!

-- Posted by Walkenstick on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 8:34 AM

So government should start legislating common sense...

-- Posted by Producer1 on Thu, Feb 4, 2010, at 1:13 PM

Thanks for the link, Bill. I've added a copy of the article to my 20+ years of research files.

Another bit of what has happened in some IL towns since the ban: People who once had their large family/friends 'celebrations' (anniversary, birthday, etc.) in restaurants have now started having them in individual homes rather than reserving tables or entire sections of restaurants. That's a pretty large chunk of money lost probably ... remembering our own family outings in the past.

GREYWOLF ... I admired your 12:30 pm post! Quite unusual for a non-smoker to have such a common-sense attitude about it.

As many times as I've attempted to stop smoking (seven; twice under doctor's care, one of whom actually debated the wisdom of having me trade tobacco for drugs) ... as much as I'd like to quit permanently ... I researched Chantrix. I'd rather smoke than take that particular risk ... of nightmares, mood changing, suicidal thoughts & even suicide. Please, anyone who considers that drug ... do the research! It's definitely not for everyone.

-- Posted by gurusmom on Thu, Feb 4, 2010, at 3:33 PM

Retarded person,

My point is as follows.

IL was the first state in the region to "implement" a very high minimum wage. A forced minimum wage, in turn forces restaurants and bars to INCREASE their pricing to offset the increased labor cost. Higher prices result in lower customer counts, thus lower sales.

IL has had their utilities almost TRIPLE in the last few years. Higher utilities result in a squeezed margin, thus higher pricing and/or less staffing, resulting in lower sales.

IL has very high insurance premiums due to a multitude of reasons. Same argument.

Other reasons- high utility taxes, high worker's compensation costs, excessive unemployment insurance costs and a high corporate income tax rate.

Furthermore the unemployment in IL is high in comparison to several neighboring states, 11.1% in December for the entire state and much higher in Southern Illinois, which is the area most of the above arguments and comparisons are made from. Franklin count is 14.1%. Would it be fair to assume that high unemployment coupled with a national recession would effect peoples discretionary income? Yes, yes it is.

-- Posted by variable on Thu, Feb 4, 2010, at 8:37 PM

variable,

The points you have outlined have impacted IL businesses. However, you have ignored my point, which is that you are selectively labeling tax increases as socialist - while refusing to acknowledge that smoking bans are also socialist. The government is telling a private owner how to run his business. All are free to eat there or not eat there. No one is forced to step foot in any private business. Do I think there should be bans on karaoke bars just because I find amateur singing offensive? No, I'll just go somewhere else to have a drink.

-- Posted by retardedemmanuel on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 2:56 PM

I see your point except Karaoke is not cancer causing, annoying, but not cancer causing.

Illinois is one of the MOST unfriendly business environments around. Google it. My reference to socialism is tongue in cheek, but realistically you have to admit that the state is making it difficult for a business to survive in that environment. I'm just saying that there are other variables at hand that effect the "studies/assumptions" made above.

Also, you are correct that people don't have to step foot into a place that allows smoking; but that is not realistic, and you know that. So, I probably can't go ANYWHERE under that analysis as there is always some person standing outside the entrance to a store or restaurant smoking away. For the love Pete, you have to walk past a herd of losers/patients as you walk into St. Francis. These are patients that are hooked to IV poles in backless gowns with their ***** in 30 degree weather hanging out busily clouding the air as you walk into a hospital.

The government tells business how to run his business a thousand different way on a daily basis. I'm all for having the government stay out of the way of business in general, but why should the majority have to yield to the minority?

I'm all about free choice and free enterprise, but at what cost.

-- Posted by variable on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 4:00 PM

Variable,

In answer to your Question:

ANY !!

-- Posted by GREYWOLF on Sun, Feb 7, 2010, at 6:42 AM

Wow... interesting thread. I loved the post by ParkerDaws with the Columbia, Missouri statistics. It looks like they had a drop of 11% in tax revenue when they enforced a smoking ban at bars and restaurants.

I hate the smell of smoke while I am eating but I do have the choice to go somewhere else if I don't like it. If you don't like the smell then vote with your feet... not with more regulations.

I bumped into a guy the other day who said that he's been places where you can only drink inside and only smoke outside... and getting to sit down with a cigar and a whisky was almost impossible. The last thing we need is more state regulations.

-- Posted by Tech_Dude on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 8:22 AM

BillHannegan if you read the report from the Federal Reserve you will see the disclaimer that the Federal Reserve had nothing to do with the report.

-- Posted by Ray James on Wed, Dec 22, 2010, at 11:01 PM


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