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Tuesday, July 22, 2014

Speak Out 11/17/09

Tuesday, November 17, 2009

Veterans salute

AS a Vietnam vet, I want to thank Applebee's in Cape Girardeau for the free meal they offered to all veterans and active-duty personnel on Veterans Day. I also want to thank radio station C106 for having a "Salute to Veterans" program all day. I speak for all the veterans who enjoyed the meal or listened to the radio station. You got our attention. Thank you.

Against seniors

I have been a member of AARP for many years. It is selling seniors down the river, and seniors do not realize this. I was signing AARP petitions and making donations and thought I was signing something to defeat the health care reform bill. Then AARP sent me a long letter of explanation. It's not for the seniors at all. It's sad that it takes every penny we scrape together to buy medications and pay for insurance. Just because we're old, we don't have to let people walk all over us.

No savings

IT must be corporate math. After years of paying car insurance, my insurance premium finally became happily affordable. Then I bought an old car to play with. My insurance more than doubled. To save some money, I dropped the coverage on the old car. But my insurance premium only dropped less than a quarter. Now I'm paying almost double on my original car. I hope I do better with the cable people, because I've got a great idea on how to save some money with those guys.

The Lord's day

I was disappointed that Sam Blackwell did not mention observing the Lord's day in his column, "Keeping Sabbath." He had a really good column, but I read nothing about worshipping the Lord. The Jewish Sabbath is on a Saturday. The Christian Sabbath, called the Lord's day, is on the first day of the week, which is a Sunday, commemorating the resurrection of Jesus and the pouring out of the spirit in Acts 2:14. It's not just a day of doing what we want to do and whatever pleases us. We'd better be pleasing the Lord and remembering it is he who we are to serve, not ourselves.

Honoring veterans

KUDOS to Applebee's on Veterans Day for giving a free meal to the veterans. That was awesome. The veterans deserve that and more for keeping us free and safe all those years, putting their lives on the line with their loved ones at home worrying.

Recycling glass

I have been recycling since the city started the program. This included glass items. With the new system, I'm supposed to use my gasoline to drive all over town to find a glass recycling bin. How long does it take glass to deteriorate in a landfill?

Helpful fireman

WE hear about the many bad things that happen. I want to tell you about my experience as an 87-year-old woman on the Walmart parking lot in Jackson. When I finished my shopping and came to my car, one of the front tires was flat. I needed help. A young man came to my rescue. He changed the tires and would not accept any pay. Jason was the only name he gave me. He is a firefighter in Cape Girardeau. Thank you again, Jason, and may God bless you for your kindness.

Between the lines

I don't know if this says more about Sarah Palin or Rush Limbaugh. Anyway, El Rushbo recently said that Sarah Palin's book, "Going Rogue," is the most substantive policy book he has ever read.

Trying terrorists

FIVE jihadist defendants will be brought to New York City for a trial. Not surprisingly, Republicans are claiming that U.S. civilian courts are not capable of trying these people. How sad that Republicans would be reduced to criticizing our civilian courts for political gain, particularly in light of the fact that hundreds of terrorists have already been tried and convicted in U.S. civilian courts.

Burning plastic

IT'S one of the last beautiful, mild Saturday mornings of the season and my neighbor in Westfield Subdivision in Cape is again burning plastic in his burn barrel. The smell is so noxious I had to bring my children indoors and will have to drive them out of the neighborhood to play outside. Please, if you have to burn your garbage, follow the law and common sense and don't burn plastic. It affects everyone in your neighborhood. It can make us physically ill.

Smoking, drinking

Why do people defend public smoking by suggesting the effects for other people in the room are similar to drinking? A person could be sitting next to me in a restaurant drinking a cocktail, but I wouldn't know if it's a screwdriver or merely orange juice unless I asked. It would be painfully obvious, however, if the person next to me lit a cigarette, especially if I was still trying to taste my food.


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I find it very amusing that in the same paragraph, someone will complain about barely scraping by to pay for medicine and insurance, and then will write about wanting to defeat the healthcare reform bill.

Even more amusing is that you signed something without bothering to read what it actually said.

If you don't like the AARP, stop PAYING to be a member.

-- Posted by the_eye on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 12:08 AM

"After years of paying car insurance, my insurance premium finally became happily affordable. Then I bought an old car to play with. My insurance more than doubled."

So you can't afford higher insurance, but you CAN afford a second car to "play with"?

This is America, welcome to the land of stupidity.

-- Posted by the_eye on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 12:10 AM

Honoring veterans ...thank you one and all

Burning plastic ....that's one way to get rid of those pesky credit cards

No savings ....this will learn ya to try and have some fun . i bet you have annoying in-laws too , don't you?

Between the lines ....is where ya go when ya get stuck with Sarah Palin or Rush Limbaugh . BTW , Rush is STILL a polished piece of excrement...

-- Posted by ..Rick on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 4:10 AM

Theorist,

How childish!

Grease was something I had no time for in the 70's. I was busy raising a family and building a business, which continues to this day giving people jobs and security. What have you done?

And I don't intend to get into a P****** contest with you about who has been where. I will just leave it at I have made more overseas trips than you have fingers to count them on.

-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 12:18 AM

I know this won't change the offense taken by the original comment (i'm not sure it was meant to be taken offensively, but I don't know), but... my screen name is the name of my cat, whom is not named after anyone specific, I just liked the way it sounded. Although, now that she is older and I see her little personality, I lean towards saying her name is reflective of Enrico "Ratso" Rizzo portrayed by Dustin Hoffman in the 1969 film "Midnight Cowboy". =)

Wheels - A few folks have been mighty disrespectful...ahem, one in particular I can think of over the past two days (not including those who are just joking with you). Being older means you've lived through a lot and have experienced history (which tends to repeat itself) first hand. I like to listen and take notes (just in case). I could sit, talk and listen to my "Gramps" all day long, and for that matter, the people I work for; whom I discuss frequently when talking about UHC. God bless you!

-- Posted by Rizzo on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 8:09 AM

"They do not want the Gov controlling anything and want little to no taxes for people like them, but see it fit to tax the hell out of people like me."

"I say this to show why I said what I said, most republicans are well off and want to stay the way, hence the greed comment. Most republicans are anti immigration/ so called illegals and anti gay, hence the hate and fear comments."

"Don't like my assesments and words, then don't act like you know me, because you don't"

OK Prince, let's digress this for a minute.

Taxes - You said in your earlier post that you want something to benefit the masses. Then, in this post you complain about people "like (us)" taxing the hell out of people like you. So, basically, you want to pick and choose who the "masses" are that you want to help. Tax money is supposed to go towards those government run programs and to pay the elected officials who propse, pass, and enforce them. Last time I checked, I don't have the right to tax anyone. And, it seems to make sense that if the government is less in control, you will see a decrease in taxes, as they are not adding to them or controlling how much you pay. So, if you are for government run programs, don't complain about being taxed, or just don't work and fall into the system, let big brother take care of you.

On to the next two statements I have in quotations above.

You make many judgements here, yet you demand that know one knows you or how you feel. So, it's OK to go ahead and make those judgement calls, but it's not OK for anyone else to do this concerning you.

That's a lot of nerve.

And as far as anyone owing you anything -- is this because you have graced us with your presence on this earth? I'm just curious as to the benefit you have provided for the rest of us that anyone owes you anything.

It's ok for someone to have a difference in opinion; however, it is a common theme among other forms of government (not capitalism) to demand that people lose their own opinions and everyone share the same beliefs. Be careful what you wish for.

It's like watching CNN vs. Fox News. It's crazy to say that one has a biased opinion and the other shares all the information. (please accept my apologies if I offend either side here with this statement, we all tend to get worked up about that issue) The bottom line is this, if information comes from a human being, it WILL be affected by personal opinion. It's in our nature.

So, if you stop and listen, take into account what EVERYONE has to say, difference in opinion or not, you can think independently (that means on your own). I think that's what the response post meant about "buying your vote".

Look at Defy -- he's got the art of using mainstream media to form an individual opinion down to a T. =)

Yes, I'm getting preachy, I admit-- but this "world is harsh" and "it had to be said".

-- Posted by Rizzo on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 8:41 AM

Don't like my assesments and words, then don't act like you know me, because you don't. I think the world owes us all and that includes me but not just me.

Oh and by the way, I do live without charity. No Gov. Aid here sir.

-- Posted by Prince_of_cats on Mon, Nov 16, 2009, at 7:59

I don't owe you anything. What have you done for me? It sounds like you DO want charity. If I had a Grandson like you he would be out of the trust in a heartbeat. Where is your pride man?

BTW that is what the trust is for. To keep the politicians greedy hands out of it. I've already paid taxes on it several times.

-- Posted by Wiff on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 10:13 AM

Good morning!

-- Posted by Turnip on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 10:34 AM

Good morning , Turnip....

-- Posted by ..Rick on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 10:45 AM

"oh you all come on"...stop picking on that old dried up white man", let him dry up like a prune by himself and his trust fund"!

-- Posted by cadillacman on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 10:23 AM

Why does the color of his skin matter? Sounds like a very racist thing for you to put into print.

-- Posted by non-biasedphilosopher on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 10:48 AM

non-biasedphilosopher,

Get used to it. That's just the way he is.

-- Posted by SpankTheTank on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 10:52 AM

cadillacman, I'll try to make you feel better. It's raining today because Obama is in China and not at home taking care of the weather as he should be doing.

-- Posted by fup on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 10:56 AM

You say "I think the world owes us all and that includes me but not just me." Don't you realize what this says about you? Nobody owes you anything son, take personal responsibility.

-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 12:59 AM

AMEN to that.

-- Posted by Producer1 on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 1:28 PM

You say "I think the world owes us all and that includes me but not just me." Don't you realize what this says about you? Nobody owes you anything son, take personal responsibility.

-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 12:59 AM

AMEN to that.

-- Posted by Producer1 on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 1:28 PM

Couldn't agree more. I have a relative who is in his sixties and been in a wheel chair since the age of eighteen. He still goes to work every day and doesn't expect anything he doesn't earn by himself.

-- Posted by Red_Rhino on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 1:57 PM

Wow, wow, wow. Look at all the immature people now. This section is fro discussing todays comments and already Rizzo and Wheels have brought something from two days ago from a different section to this one. Pretty sad when I wanted to drop this and just focus on today's Speak Outs. In fact I was not going to even go back and comment on this.

Oh and by the way, This is the only comments I will make.

One, I never said you all owe me anything, I said you all owe the entire us population. As a country you must be willing to help everyone and from the sounds of you three now, you just proved you care only about one person, yourself.

That being said, grow up, keep this in the section it deserves to be in, and thanks for making me look like the mature one.

Moving on.

Against seniors

AARP did this because they are looking out for everyone, by everyone I mean the majority. If they feel this bill will help them, they will do everything to help people. Remember, one voice is just a whisper under a thousand plus.

No savings

I don't know what company you have but my car is 22 years old and my insurance is very affordable. Mind you I have only one car. Your Insurance is based on the age of the car, the size of the engine, your road record, and your credit score. Now, my credit score sucks, I have a clean record, my car has a 4 cylinder, and it is 22 years old and I pay less than $60 a month. Now if this was a newer car, say a 2005, 8 cylinder, with my same record and score, take that amount and and add about $40 to it. Oh by the way, I have Progressive.

The Lord's day

As someone who is not christian, I wonder how much crap I will get from this now that I mentioned it in a mostly republican area, I do not believe in keeping the sabbath day holy. I believe it is up to the person, and most people don't anymore. In fact I work every sunday, and along side alot of Christians. They still go to church after work, but they also work and why, because they need the money. Oh and I am not Jewish, but I have friends who are, the sabbath is friday evening until Saturday evening. This is not a christian or jewish or muslim country, this is a country with a freedom of religion, so let people do as they do with their religion, and you do what you do with your religion.

Trying terrorists

Yet they felt it is necessary for Gitmo and water boarding, and torture. They want to do it the illegal way and let the military torture them, try them, and kill them without us knowing, when 3/4ths of those in Gitmo are just POWs from the wars in the middle east. Some of those people were forced to join their country's military now they are awaiting death for doing like our soldiers and fighting for their countries. Now those who were out setting off bombs at Gov. building, and doing actual terrorist things, like those who planned 9/11, they deserve to be there and be punished, but do it the American way through the courts here, it will be a nice little slap in the face for them to be convicted and then executed under our laws. If we just run a little muslim concentration camp and let the military kill them one by one, then we are no better than Hitler and the Nazis. Laws are laws, even if you are a killer or a terrorist.

Smoking, drinking

You know, I have never heard this ever uttered. Though at the same time I am one of the people who is a non smoker and has no problem with smokers. I sit in the non-smoking section at restaurants and I have yet to have a problem with smoke in my face and not being able to taste my food. Are you sitting in the smoking section with them? If you are, that is your own fault. I believe to help silence people who complain about smokers they should do what I have seen in a few restaurants and stick them in their own glass room. I then feel they should working on a vent system that will suck the smoke out of the room, through a series of filters, and out of the building. just like they do with the smoke from their stoves, and such. Then there will be no complaining, unless again you sit in the section with them or on the roof near the vent.

-- Posted by Prince_of_cats on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 2:15 PM

Oh, ye Masters of One Liners!

-- Posted by voyager on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 3:27 PM

Prince_of_cats My insurance is not affected by my credit score. My insurance company does not check that. They checked my driving record and any company I have had auto insurance with has told me liability insurance in the state of Mo will be the same on any car or truck I own regardless of engine size. I have a truck with a V8, a car with a V6 and just got rid of a truck with a 4 Cyl and all had the same limits on liability and the cost for that was the same. Full coverage is a different story and if you put a younger driver on a car that will make a difference also. The age of the driver, the sex of the driver and the driving record sets the amount of the policy.

-- Posted by joekool on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 3:35 PM

joekool,

This is also different per company. Geico, or how ever you spell it, does check your credit score. I know these because I have seen friends my same age, driving similar vehicles, with similar driving records, apply and both get different quotes from them because of their credit scores. I agree the discriminate based on age and sex as well, which I disagree with because I have seen people older than me get into more wrecks and drive worse than I do, yet they get cheaper rates. It is outrageous sometimes.

-- Posted by Prince_of_cats on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 3:57 PM

I said you all owe the entire us population

NO I DON"T!!!!

Cadilacman

Quit being a racist. Don't worry....everything is gravy. Are you sure you have me pegged right?

-- Posted by Wiff on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 5:30 PM

"Wow, wow, wow. Look at all the immature people now. This section is fro discussing todays comments and already Rizzo and Wheels have brought something from two days ago from a different section to this one. Pretty sad when I wanted to drop this and just focus on today's Speak Outs. In fact I was not going to even go back and comment on this."

Prince,

Your continued name-calling and assuming is not going to change my political views. This concept is taught in Debate 101.

I don't go back and check every past speak out daily, as I suppose others do not as well. Maybe I'm wrong here, but it seems somewhat of a waste of time to continue to post on a forum that is days old. Subsequently, today is the first day I read your post from, apparently, two days ago.

Please forgive me, but I was unaware that you were done with the conversation. Please, help me out here and make yourself a little more clear in the future.

I agree with you to a point on the smoking issue. As far as car insurance, high premiums are not fun. Fortunately, we can switch companies if we choose.

Maybe for the sake of those who cannot afford their car insurance, we should consider a universal car insurance plan? After all, it is law to carry coverage. Those with good driving records can pay higher premiums so that those drivers considered "high risk" with a poor driving record will have rates that are more affordable. Even the playing field a little so that everyone can drive a vehicle and be covered equally. =)

-- Posted by Rizzo on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 6:43 PM

Wheels,

What am I looking for? Oh yeah the fact I posted that two days ago and you can't keep that discussion there.

Mr. Wiffle,

You are just proving now that you care only about yourself. As a citizen of these United States you should be looking out for your fellow man, but you would rather be like Wheels and care only about yourself. This is why this country is failing. Not people like me. At least I work my butt off at two jobs, TWO jobs working 3/4ths of my day and sleeping for less than 6 hours. I get no charity and want none from people like you, but you should care and worry about your fellow americans. You can keep worrying about just yourselves and when the time comes for you to ask me and my fellow americans, the ones who are fighting for bills like health care reform, when you come and beg us for help, I will only laugh and ask you, why now?

-- Posted by Prince_of_cats on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 6:48 PM

"You can keep worrying about just yourselves..."

There is more than one way to help others, and it's not always monetary. There is likely more than one way to solve the healthcare problem. Some of these people have lived through government program reform and know first hand of the shortcomings of the current systems. They draw from their experiences to form their opinions. Being on this earth for less than 30 years puts us at a big disadvantage in the experience category-- admit it or not.

"...and when the time comes for you to ask me and my fellow americans, the ones who are fighting for bills like health care reform, when you come and beg us for help, I will only laugh and ask you, why now?"

It appears as if you already have a pre-disposition on who you want to help, and how, and who you don't. But, I see you continue to point a finger and chastise others for what you describe as selfishness, simply because they don't share your views. Just the statement alone of feeling "owed" exemplifies selfishness under the disguise of "entitlement". Just in this statement represents a seperation of a group of people based on views and opinions, the very thing you spoke out against when bringing up racism in the posts of yesteryear. One of the wonderful things about this country is the right to your own opinion, but just a few days earlier, you demanded that everyone agree with you.

But my question remains unanswered; why do you feel you (and everyone else who you view to carry your same opinion, because obviously if I disagree with you I am not included in this category by your standards) are owed? And, if everyone is owed, who pays? I believe that nothing is free except your will. And for myself, coming from my belief in God, I believe that even that had a price. Someone, somewhere pays the price for you to have something, even if it is not you. So, why is it 'owed'?

-- Posted by Rizzo on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 7:21 PM

Wheels,

We were once young and naive too, or at least I was. I really can't take some people seriously until they live and learn a little.

-- Posted by Red_Rhino on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 7:24 PM

i pay all of my taxes which is my part in helping the 'us' generation people...everything after taxes is mine !

-- Posted by ..Rick on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 7:37 PM

Wheels,

Yes I posted it in Sunday's speakout because that is where is deserves to be, not on this one. People can go back and read if they want. I am hiding nothing. Socialism: refers to any one of various economic theories of economic organization advocating state or cooperative ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and a society characterized by equal opportunities/means for all individuals.

Now I believe in only one part and that is: a society characterized by equal opportunities/means for all individuals. Meaning that everyone has an equal oppurtunity to be somebody, not just the rich and not just the Government, everyone. Though I am by no means a socialist, Democrat or even an evil republican. I am a person free of party and with many ideas.

Rizzo,

When did I ever say money? I said that we all owe everyone. This does not imply money and you saying it does shows now that you care only about it. See in psychology there is a term called subconscious thoughts. You see a person can say a vague term and your mind will fill in that blank with something you care, think about alot of, or worry about. In your case, money.

Now to answer your question, I feel everyone owes everyone something because that is the way to help this country. If you constantly worry about just yourself, how are you helping say the starving children down the block? If you are constantly jumping to conclusions and saying me first, how are you trying to help save this planet?

I don't feel you owe me as in the people rick labeled as the "us" generation, I feel you, Rick, Wheels, and even myself owe this entire nation something to make it better. This can fixed as simple as giving to charity, helping someone who lost a home to a storm, giving the shirt off your back to someone who just lost his in a fire, or even going and donating time at a shelter or soup kitchen. You can also stop worrying about just yourself and start listening to all the people who need health care. Don't view us as young, uneducated, unworking teens who ride on your coat tails and start viewing us as human being who need help and who want the freedom of life. I work my butt off, I give to this country and to people who are needy, and I want health care. I ask you simply, as well as everyone here, have you ever recently lived from paycheck to paycheck? I don't mean back in 1952, I mean this year or last year. I have no gone out to a bar or to a party or even anything fun in months. I spend my money on my bills and on food to survive and yet I can not afford health insurance in case I get sick. What am I to do if I get cancer or have a heart attack? Should I just die and let you save a little tax money, or should I have the chance to fight and live so I can start a family, get married, and meet my goals.

But who am I kidding, you all do not care, you only care about #1, you and you alone. If you daughter or son or wife or husband were dying and had no health care or money to pay for help, you would care then, at least I hope you have at least that much of a heart.

-- Posted by Prince_of_cats on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 8:05 PM

Prince,

We owe ourselves first. That way we are not a burden on those who produce the wealth. I care about #1. I salute those who earn their way and pity those that are able to provide for themselves but won't. We are not in this together, forget that, we are individuals with individual needs.

-- Posted by BCStoned on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 8:36 PM

Prince,

You see those people that you are hammering are producing goods that consumers want. They are making the world a better place, and that is the reason they have money. Find out the wants and the needs of the marketplace and you will be able to afford the things that you want and need. People are poor in most cases because they chose to be poor.

-- Posted by BCStoned on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 8:54 PM

Oh Prince...we come full circle.

I live paycheck to paycheck daily, I work 40+ hours per week in a professional position. I also consult on the side, and I am president of my local professional organization (volunteer). Again, I want to reinterate that I never said that I disagree with you concerning healthcare reform. I agree with you, we need it. But, I don't think that the government-- I'm not talking individual parties here-- government does not desire to give healthcare. The current systems are not working, they are broken. Fix them.

I want to go back to my earlier posts and remind you that my problem with UHC is that I see it as a way to put everyone -- I mean everyone-- on one, impoverished state for the monetary and empowerment of the elected officials in government. Have you ever had to live on government assistance and tried to get out? I am blessed in the fact that I haven't, but I sure know many that have, including a close friend of mine who grew up in the foster care system (same age as myself), a neighbor and single monther with two small children in the apartment I lived in prior to buying my home, many of my geriatric patients who have to SELL THEIR HOME-- sell their home that they have had for 50 years just to qualify for government run Medicaid to pay for the cost of their age; the cost of innovation and technology that has allowed them to live this long. My friend would go to work, and the minute she made a penny over minimum wage, she would lose all government assistance because she made too much money, ultimately placing her back at the disadvantage she was prior to going to work, except now she is paying more taxes and officially has less money than before. How is that helping anyone?? You have two choices, live in the system forever with no chance of self-improvement despite your desires, or go without until... well, until who knows?

If the broken system could be fixed, it would benefit the masses. I know that when these systems were put into place, they were meant to do good things for people trying really hard. At least, that's what the government wanted us to believe to sell it to us. But, along with government footing the bill, comes no options.

I don't think that you are going to qualify for a public option that is affordable by your standards, Prince, if you are working two jobs. It will be justified as afforable by the government standards, I'm sure. I don't know, I guess time will tell.

When I was, let's say, 14; too young to work legally, but old enough to care about the "name brand" on my clothes, etc. I begged my mom to take me clothes shopping, so I could be up to speed with my peers.

OK-- we went clothes shopping. But, momma was paying the bill. So, I didn't get the name brand jeans, I got the JC Penny specials. I could choose the color, but the quality, nope. It was this or nothing. Or, go to work and spend the money on the most expensive jeans I desired.

Now, healthcare is much more important than designer jeans. I bet we both agree with that statement. So, since it is more important, wouldn't you like to reserve the right to choose how your care goes, what doctor you go to, or whether you want the "red pill" or the "blue pill" (using PBO's words on that one). What gives government the right to decide what pill you need? They are not your doctor. This happens on medicare and medicaid now. Do you think they are going to change their views on how to manage your healthcare overnight?

I really hope I am wrong, I really do. I think it would be wonderful to put a system into place that works, for everyone.

I want to say again, that I don't think the government is going to spend the extra cash to "paint your picket fence white", as is often referred to in the "American Dream". Unfortunately, this is something that we are always going to have to do ourselves-- spending the extra cash for anything over the basic necessities.

I was raised to believe that nobody owes me anything, and to put others first. I think the attacks on your opinion of being owed comes from the fact that you include yourself in that category, not that everyone else is selfish.

I'm not opposed to spending the money to contribute to a healthcare system that works, one that I can use. Believe me, I have my own set of health insurance woes.

I'm not going to go into what I do to help people (including those listed above as I love them dearly). I believe in giving without taking credit, nor bringing it up in defense or rememberance. Do, and let it go.

I mentioned the monetary value due to the nature of the debate. We are discussing healthcare reform and the cost ($$) of healthcare. You are the one taking the subject of the cost of healthcare and placing emphasis on how it and eveything else is owed to everyone. If this is not what you mean, please clarify.

I thought you majored in Journalism. Was this a double major in psychology as well?

Also, you do make quite a few presumptions about how things are going to work and what will happen, or statistics that I think you pull out of nowhere. I don't believe you have a crystal ball (not that I think a crystal ball has any power).

You have already expressed your disdain for others pretending to know you and make assumptions, I would expect the same courtesy from you in regard to me. Before you even respond to that statement, as it is predictable by now, I want to say that I made an effort to not assume anything about you and attempted used deductive reasoning based on your prior statements. Of course, I'm only human too.

I think I am going to quit wasting my time on this subject with you, now. I'm going to take a hint from Rhino. It's like talking to an idiopathic brick wall.

If you hadn't already told me your age, I would swear you are someone I know from a previous job (and friends with, for that matter). Yep, I have many friends with opposing political views.

Please know that this started as, what I thought would be a good debate, and I'm sorry if I offended you in my opinionated state.

God bless, Prince.

-- Posted by Rizzo on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 9:00 PM

Deut. 15:7. If there is a poor man among you, one of your brothers, in any of the towns of the land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart, nor close your hand to your poor brother; but you shall freely open your hand to him, and generously lend him sufficient for his need in whatever he lacks.

I want all of you who claim to be christians to read that. That comes straight from the bible my friends. This is what I mean when you owe everyone in this world.

Prov. 31:8ff. Open your mouth for the dumb, for the rights of all the unfortunate. Open your mouth, judge righteously, and defend the rights of the afflicted and needy.

Yet something else from the bible for you to think on. I am not a christian but I have read the bible and I agree with what it says.

Ezek. 16:49ff. "Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food, and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy. Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me. Therefore I removed them when I saw it."

Is. 10:1-3. "Woe to those who enact evil statutes, and to those who continually record unjust decisions, so as to deprive the needy of justice, and rob the poor of My people of their rights... Now what will you do in the day of punishment, and in the devastation which will come from afar?"

Those are the last two I will throw up here for you.

You can tell me that we must look out for each other first but you must look out for everyone as well.

I work James, I cook and I produce things in a factory which people use every day. People are not poor in most cases because they chose to be. My family did not choose to be poor, we were because my family worked hard in factories to support not just my mother and father, but me and my brother. We were also not on welfare. Those who choose to be poor also choose to exploit the Gov. and never look for jobs. Are you poor? Do you consider yourself poor? I consider myself poor. I can not afford health insurance or even to fix my 22 year old car which is constantly having problems. Hell I can not even afford payments on a new or used car. Yet there are people out there with mass amounts of money who just spend it on crap they never use, and yet they want tax breaks and think people like me should work harder when they themselves never have. We all can't sit around collecting retirement money or social security or trust fund money like the rich and others. I work to help myself, but I still find time to help those in need.

-- Posted by Prince_of_cats on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 9:05 PM

Prince, I am poor because I chose to be poor. It didn't have to be this way but it is my chosen path. I worked in a factory also and I'm no Christian.

I chose this path, no one chose it for me. To blame those who produce the goods and services for the poor amongst us is wrong headed. They are providing a better life for us all.

As a veteran, I don't want to be saluted as a veteran, but as someone who produced goods that made the world a better place. I am much more proud of that production than I am of destruction.

-- Posted by BCStoned on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 9:19 PM

Rizzo,

You stated your point very well, but, the insurance companies already decide what doctor, pill, procedure you can have. Well, that is if you want them to pay for them. I see it all the time as I work in a 'related' field.

Again, not saying you are wrong in you opinion, just something to think about is all.

-- Posted by Pups on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 9:25 PM

Rizzo,

The only person to offend me was Wheels. I actual respect you where as Wheels thinks I should respect him based on his age. Respect is earned and not given, which is why I do not ask for respect but just the time and place to say what I will.

I am glad to hear from someone who has seen things from my point of view, but I wish we could all just do one thing, wait until the bill passes and is put into effect before we jump to conclusions on what is going to happen or not. We do not know the cost, but we all jump to our guns and defenses when someone says the word tax or if someone quote a price. I myself have never and will never utter a statistic that I do not have proof on and saddens me to see every news organization, including this newspaper, quote a different price for the health care bill. No one knows the price and we wont until it goes into effect.

I know what it is like not getting what you want, which is why I never asked for it. I did not get a cell phone until I could pay for it myself. Everything I got I got for a birthday or x-ms or it was a hand me down from an older cousin. I had to buy things that I wanted. Now, I also know what it is to live with a health care where you can not decide who takes care of you, it is called HMO and my parents were on it for most of my young life. Once I turned 21 and had to find my own insurance I got one through a job I had, which was a big mistake. I was paying way too much for something that I still had to pay 80% of the bill on. When I left that job and got two to replace it, I found out that I could not find any other insurance through my work. All that was out there was over priced junk.

Now everyone is raised differently, I will admit that, but something I have learned through the years, from watching my family suffer and from my own sufferings I have seen that the world owes us all, me included. I do not put myself above anyone because I know people who need this help more than me. Just like you have friends who have had to have Gov help and who have had to give up homes, so have I. I have seen family die because of no health care, I have watched my friends forced into welfare because no matter how hard they worked, they just never made enough. In a place like Cape, jobs are everywhere, but where I come from a good job is as easy to find as a needle in the ocean. Here you can get a job for a few dollars over min. wage, there you were lucky to get a dime over it.

I only bring up that I have helped people to show that I have. I do not want people labeling me as someone who ask for help but never gives it.

Rizzo you have a good head on your shoulders and I wish we could all see eye to eye, but I know we never will and I will keep debating and keep talking to make sure my voice is not drown out. I hope you do the same. People learn from each other as well as life.

-- Posted by Prince_of_cats on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 9:26 PM

Somehow I just knew you'd whip out a bible verse or two.

I'm a fundamentalist, not a literalist.

=)

-- Posted by Rizzo on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 9:30 PM

There are a heck of a lot of people in government selling poverty. My advice is don't buy.

-- Posted by BCStoned on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 9:31 PM

Thanks for your Kudos, Prince.

I understand where you are coming from, as well. I can tell you are passionate about your convictions, and that is a excellent quality as well, use it wisely.

I hope that you still have most of your family around you, and I hope that you are successful in your endeavors.

I think we are all blessed to live in a country where we are able to speak our minds without fear of punishment, and I think we all take this for granted. And, I do love a good debate.

Even though you have stated you are not a christian so this may have little to no meaning to you, but you and your family are in my prayers. =)

-- Posted by Rizzo on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 9:36 PM

Good point, pups. Definitely included in the need for healthcare reform.

-- Posted by Rizzo on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 9:37 PM

Rizzo,

I think the one thing that everyone might be able to agree on is the need for reform. The approach to that reform is where most seem to disagree.

-- Posted by Pups on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 10:06 PM

Sorry for the double post. Not sure how I did that.

-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 10:02 PM

You got all whipped-up and click happy, like Defy does when he double and triple posts!! LOL Just teasing.

-- Posted by Rizzo on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 10:15 PM

"A man will be imprisoned in a room with a door that's unlocked and opens inwards; as long as it does not occur to him to pull rather than push." Ludwig Wittgenstein

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them".- Thomas Jefferson

-- Posted by Red_Rhino on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 11:27 PM

I see people on this post like to use statistics. I believe the latest on the jobs saved/created by Bo Bo is a textbook example of government statistics and government management capabilities.

Someone once said. "There are lies, there are damned lies, and then there are statistics." You can research who the wise old fellow was.

Entitlement is an addiction of which many of the past two generations are suffering.

National healthcare will be the final straw to destroy the dollar and this democracy.

Those still wet behind the ears have a long painful learning curve in front of them.

-- Posted by Balmy on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 11:34 PM

Wheels,

In Bollinger County. How long you going to be in this neck of the woods?

-- Posted by SpankTheTank on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 11:42 PM

I've got some loose ends to tie up before I go up North hunting this Friday but, maybe I can get out there and say, hey. I guess we're still going. The oldest hasn't changed his mind yet. We're going to be up in the St. Louis area the weekend after Thanksgiving to pick some stuff up mom inherited. Surly we can cross paths sooner or later.

-- Posted by SpankTheTank on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, at 12:04 AM

From what I remember isn't Longhorn one of your favorites for steak and lobster? There is one about a half mile from me.

-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, at 12:16 AM

As Sarah would say, "You Betcha"

I've got your e-mail downstairs, I just have to find it. I just replaced my monitor, so I'll have to look for it. Kinda got a messy desk. You can get in touch with me at after_hourspc@sbcglobal.net. Probably catch some flack off Gurusmom on that one.

-- Posted by SpankTheTank on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, at 12:35 AM

Prince and melange when I was talking about my insurance I was trying to say that my provider does not and will not check my credit score. They do not agree with that. I have talked with them about that and I feel that is not revelant to my driving habits. But prince stated "I don't know what company you have but my car is 22 years old and my insurance is very affordable. Mind you I have only one car. Your Insurance is based on the age of the car, the size of the engine, your road record, and your credit score. Now, my credit score sucks, I have a clean record, my car has a 4 cylinder, and it is 22 years old and I pay less than $60 a month. Now if this was a newer car, say a 2005, 8 cylinder, with my same record and score, take that amount and and add about $40 to it. Oh by the way, I have Progressive."-- Posted by Prince_of_cats on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 2:15 PM

I was trying to say mainly engine size does not matter nor what type of car or truck you own as far as liability goes. I know some insurers do check credit scores but mine does not and I will never agree to that. I pay cash for everything except when I had to take a loan against my paid for home to pay for college. I bought this home for very little (16 grand ) with cash and fixed it up and now have a 75 grand value home with less than 30 grand invested in it.

I pay less than 50 a month for a Chevy Silverado with a V8 for full coverage and my Grand Prix with a V6 cost the same

-- Posted by joekool on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, at 5:33 AM

okay Me'Lange , you can call off the rain now , it's been three days in a row !

-- Posted by ..Rick on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, at 8:20 AM

Deut. 15:7. If there is a poor man among you, one of your brothers, in any of the towns of the land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart, nor close your hand to your poor brother; but you shall freely open your hand to him, and generously lend him sufficient for his need in whatever he lacks.

I want all of you who claim to be christians to read that. That comes straight from the bible my friends. This is what I mean when you owe everyone in this world.

Prov. 31:8ff. Open your mouth for the dumb, for the rights of all the unfortunate. Open your mouth, judge righteously, and defend the rights of the afflicted and needy.

Yet something else from the bible for you to think on. I am not a christian but I have read the bible and I agree with what it says.

Ezek. 16:49ff. "Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food, and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy. Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me. Therefore I removed them when I saw it."

You can tell me that we must look out for each other first but you must look out for everyone as well. Posted by Prince_of_cats on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 9:05 PM

Hey Cats...(I refuse to call anyone by a royal name denoting superior personal status in America.).... your biblical quotes don't really make the points you posit.

First you are using "Old Testament" passages to try and shame "New Testament" Christians. (Just a slight quibble, as I believe God and Christ are one as explained in the Gospel by John 1st chapter explaining who is the Word) But the main fallacy in your hypothesis (as I see it) is that while I believe the verse in Deuteronomy has instructional value as to how a society should live, it is a misapplication to twist (as has been done by shrewd and clever political operatives) to say that Moses was saying the Israelites should give their property, the earnings and their lives to ungodly political beings in a corrupt government like Egypt to let them squander spreading it out among the government ruler's politically favored groups as they saw fit. At the time of those words, they had just spent 40 years wandering in a desert in exiled flight from captivity in/from just such a tyrannical state, Egypt.

He was saying to those Israelites, who were about to go into the promised land to do this among themselves voluntarily out of freewill directly one to another, or as a community. It was to be a personal compact by which "believers" could live in harmony with one another in security and peace for the good of all. The 10 Commandments were the main tenants of Moses' law, but these things would be fruits of the heart if they could abide by those 10 laws. (Which only Christ could do perfectly; all the rest of us fall short)

But, earthly governments can not 'force' such a charitable compact. It has to come from the heart. It can only come from the heart, if God/Christ are in your heart. God/Christ can only be in your heart if God's 'Word'/ 'Christ' is in your heart. (RE: John 1:1 thru 15.)

Proverbs again were words of advice for 'personal choices' and 'personal decision making.' If each one were trained in these words of wisdom and would abide by them, much of the world's misery would be eliminated. But again, 'government authority' can not make them work by force.

Ezekiel. The name literal means "God strengthens." The Book of Ezekiel was written for the captives of the tribe of Judah living in exile in Babylon following the Siege of Jerusalem of 597 BC. A nation like which we are fast becoming, or have become, Babylon, in which only three individuals stood up against King Nebuchadnezzar. (Shadrach, Meshech, and Abednego refused to denounce God and pledge allegiance to King Nebuchadnezzar. Their story is told in the Book of Daniel)

Babylonian rulers dominated God's people at that time because God's people had not stayed true to God's Word, and had become part of the Babylonian society accepting Babylonian societal ways, and accepting of their false Gods, forsaking the one true God. Again those 'once Godly people' were much like what America's 'once Godly people' have become today.

America's founders were bible readers as well. They devised a system of societal laws or a compact for individuals to live in harmony much the same way, based on these biblical examples. But, they recognized (in a plethora of foundational writings, that without a firm belief in and an adherence to those principles gleaned from God's Word, the Bible, it could not, and would not work.)

Maybe I should apologize for the sermon, but I make none.

I don't say these things condescendingly, but in hopes that we'll all take the time to read the words of the 'Prince of Peace' as described in the New Testament, and apply them to our lives 'individually.' If each one of us could do so, the power of political parties,(on all sides) and their political divisiveness would be eliminated.

Please, to all, stop using biblical examples of humility, charity, love and dedication to God and God's people for a twisted perverted opposite meaning to force our loyalty to State Run Policies, Programs, and Politicians.

-- Posted by ResistBHO on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, at 11:27 AM

"... wait until the bill passes and is put into effect before we jump to conclusions on what is going to happen or not. We do not know the cost ... No one knows the price and we wont until it goes into effect."

One of the truest statements we've seen regarding what some of our representatives in government wish we would all agree with ... and one of the most problematic (and most frightening) ... if one thinks logically about passing a federal bill/law that will effect probably the majority of Americans in one way or another, but which not one single person knows the true and eventual price of, or even what all is in the it.

Wheels really is right ... having to trudge through the deep snow in sub-zero weather to go to the outhouse (and to school) really does tend to toughen a person up.

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them".- Thomas Jefferson

Thank you for this quote which I didn't remember ... It should be posted in every public place possible ... government offices, bulletin boards, as the heading on every newspaper ... Perhaps then at some point in time, people would start understanding and ...

"Kinda got a messy desk. ... Probably catch some flack off Gurusmom on that one." Now, why would I fuss about a messy desk? ~laughing~

-- Posted by gurusmom on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, at 3:49 PM

From what I remember isn't Longhorn one of your favorites for steak and lobster? There is one about a half mile from me.

-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, at 12:16 AM

As Sarah would say, "You Betcha"

That's what I thought I would catch flack about. LOL

-- Posted by SpankTheTank on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, at 4:02 PM

melange, they do not have my social security number so they cannot check my credit reports. Giving a social security number out is voluntary unless they show me the statute that says what it is for and whether it is mandatory or voluntary, the principle purposes for what it will be used for, the routine uses which may be made of the information and the effects if any on not all or part of of the requsted info. That is from the privacy act of 1974. I never give my social security number out when writing a check and no law says I have to. That is restricted info and I plan on keeping it that way.

-- Posted by joekool on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, at 4:31 PM

John Adams,

I said those quotes because I find truth in them. I am not a christian for the main reason that most churches in my mind are evil. They have a book there to help them to better themselves, yet they still preach hate and where I came from, try to force you to attend. I believe in alot of what comes out of the bible, old and new alike.

One thing I do not agree with you is the difference between old and new. It is like saying that we should forget our past and do something different for the future. Why? What was said and done in the past works well today as well.

I did not post those quotes to help pass a legislation but to prove my point that we as Americans should not be looking out for number one but for everyone. God, Buddha, Muhammad, Odin, Moses, Jesus, or who ever you hold as a deity, all say we should not be selfish and should help our fellow man, our brothers and sisters, yet everywhere I look I see selfishness and greed. If we are trying to be better people, we are not doing it so well.

I do not have the power to pass a legislation and neither does anyone who has posted on here. All we can do is whine and complain until congress does what they do. Sure you can say that our representatives will listen to us because we voted them in, but unless we are petitioning them none stop, they will do what they themselves think is right.

-- Posted by Prince_of_cats on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, at 5:42 PM

how are you helping say the starving children down the block?

But who am I kidding, you all do not care, you only care about #1, you and you alone. If you daughter or son or wife or husband were dying and had no health care or money to pay for help, you would care then, at least I hope you have at least that much of a heart.

-- Posted by Prince_of_cats on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 8:05 PM

I pay Uncle Sam who gives the money to mothers who use the money for drugs and booze instead of food. I think instead of giving them more fix the mother problem first.

Yes! I look out for number one FIRST! If I didn't I would be on the dole also.

The plan will be taking away healthcare from all regardless of having money or not. The only way they can do it is break the country or ration healthcare but both will probably happen.

Healthcare will be rationed people will get worse care overall. Then you will be mad because people that can afford it will be getting out of country policies and healthcare. The liberals will want to ban that because it isn't fair to someone that can't afford it.

You are one of the misery loves company people aren't you?

-- Posted by Wiff on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, at 7:27 PM

it's stopped raining !

thank you , Me'Lange.....

-- Posted by ..Rick on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, at 8:39 PM

Hu Jintao has a new prison b*tch, his name is OBAMA.

Am I the only one who saw the press conference the other day when Chinese President Hu Jintao and Obama spoke to the press after their little two hour chat?

Obama looked like a whipped puppy dog. He knew his place, and it wasn't the head of the most powerful nation of the world, that honor has been transfered to Hu Jintao.

I would not be so crude in describing Obama as Jintao's prison b*tch, that honor goes to a medical worker friend of mine who say so in an early morning phone call today.

The more that I thought about it, the more that I agreed with him. I was very, very uncomfortable when I saw the press conference. For years, in forums and blogs, I have noted the decline of America. I spoke of a coming crash of the economy, albiet in generic terms, long before it happened last year. I was laughed at, and scoffed. I would state that without jobs, people tend not to buy anything, and was ridiculed. I would point out our enormous debt, and trade embalance with Communist China, and would hear emphatic denials, and even some would say that being in debt was a good thing. Others would just say that I didn't know what I was talking about.

Even though we have many tangible signs of our decline as a society and a so-called superpower, there was not quite a focal point to focus in on and say, aha, there it is, there is the evidence of our new diminished status.

This week, President Obama gave us that focal point, the larger than life mural that the handwriting is on the wall, the America that I knew in the 50's, 60's, and early 70's, is no more, we are on our way to 2nd world status in a hurry.

That one piece of evidence that should knock every American on their azzes, is the tape of the press conference between Communist Chinese leader Hu Jintao, and Obama this week.

After the two plus hour meeting, they emerged. Obama had no pride in his stride. He looked much like how a defeated enemy leader meets his victorous opponent after a battle. He had become Hu Jintao's prison b*tch. There was no dispute who was on top, who would be the "male" and who was forced to play the role of "female" in their relationship. Obama was on the bottom.

This is not a personal slam at Obama. Sure, Obama has been the handmaiden puppet to the globalists, and has declared his love and support of globalism on many ocassions, before and after his election as our president, however, Obama did not set the decline of America in purposeful motion, he is just the current caretaker of America for the Globalists and their New World Order.

There was a bit of hope, just a tiny bit in that news conference this week. It may be that China, under President Hu Jintao, will not take any sh*t form anyone, including Obama's globalist masters. Perhaps, we will become free someday if Hu Jintaou can bring down the New World Order globalists without permanently and completely damanging the workers and the good people of our country.

The globalists have tried to do so, and are succeeding with the help of New World Order stooges like Jo Ann Emerson. Perhaps Hu Jintao will take Wall Street bankers and their holdings to pay off our debt to Communist China. As it is, we are paying over $50 BILLION each year in just interest, I doubt very much if we have given the Chinese much on the principal. As far as I am concerned, China can have the booty that they Wall Street bankers stole from us and from them, if they would just let us start manufacturing products again, if we would adopt a "mind your own business" policy.

We are no longer a superpower. Thankfully, we are losing our so-called "economy" that was erronously based on scams by greedy, gambling bankers on Wall Street. I hope that a true economy rises to take it's place and that America can become the land of dreams once again. As it is now, we are the land of nightmares, financial criminality, and fascist/socialist engineering.

Obama didn't meet the president of Communist China this week, he met our banker.

-- Posted by Defy Tyranny on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, at 11:41 PM


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