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John Lawrence hopes wife, others arrested in last week's killings pay dearlyWednesday, November 4, 2009
John Lawrence wants his wife, Michelle R. Lawrence, to pay dearly for allegedly urging her boyfriend, Ryan Patterson, to murder him. The attack at his home last week that killed his fiancee, Jamie Lynn Orman, 30, her unborn child and her 15-year-old son, Derrick Orman, occurred because Michelle Lawrence wouldn't accept that their marriage was over, he said Tuesday. As he sat on the couch of the 1224 N. Missouri Ave. home where the killings took place before dawn Oct. 27, Lawrence said the single count of conspiracy to commit first-degree murder isn't enough. If convicted, Michelle Lawrence, 39, could be sentenced to five to 15 years in prison. Patterson, 28, faces three counts of first-degree murder, among other charges, and could receive the death penalty. A third suspect in custody, Samuel R. "Ray Ray" Hughes, 25, is charged with three counts of second-degree murder along with other charges and faces life in prison if convicted. Michelle Lawrence and Patterson will be in court Nov. 25 in Jackson for a preliminary hearing. Hughes will go before a judge Nov. 23 to determine if he has been able to hire a private lawyer to represent him. "I hope she fries," John Lawrence said. "I hope all three of them fry. They took my life away from me. Why can't somebody take their life away from them?" Michelle Lawrence was increasingly erratic in the last years of their marriage, he said. Her actions included starting fights during which their teen daughter would separate them, visiting Jamie Orman at her job and reminding her that she and John Lawrence were still married. "'Don't let John forget he is still my husband,'" John Lawrence recalled Jamie Orman telling him after one encounter. "'If something happens to him and he gets on life support, I will be the one to decide if they pull the plug or not.'" After he filed for divorce, the police became involved in a number of incidents. According to Cape Girardeau Police Department records, officers visited the home 18 times after the filing. Patterson and Hughes are accused of going to the home in the early morning hours while Jamie Lynn Orman and her three children slept. Hughes is accused of breaking into the home's garage as part of a burglary, then acting as lookout in front of the home while Patterson went inside and shot the Ormans in their beds. While Patterson and Hughes were at the house, Michelle Lawrence allegedly was at the apartment she shared with Patterson at 921 Hackberry St. with the daughter and son from her marriage to John Lawrence. "I think she should face the same charges as Ryan," he said. "I think she was the brains behind the whole situation, that is what I think." Cape Girardeau County Prosecuting Attorney Morley Swingle has said he filed a charge against Michelle Lawrence that he believes can win a conviction, based on admissions she made to police that she wanted her husband dead. But John Lawrence said his wife knew that he would be working a night shift at Nordenia and would not be home until 7 a.m. He and Michelle Lawrence had spoken the previous afternoon to arrange when their children would be at his house that week, he said. In the interview, John Lawrence described an 18-year marriage that began deteriorating after the birth of their daughter. That deterioration escalated in the final years of the marriage as Michelle Lawrence became more and more erratic and jealous of his attention toward the children, John Lawrence said. 'A competition' At times, he said, her actions were those of a spoiled child: "Once we had kids, it was a competition with Michelle and my kids," he said. "If my kids got something, Michelle thought she had to have something, too." Other times, however, the disputes became dangerous, he said. While disciplining his son for making a mess with snacks while driving home from St. Louis, he said, "she grabbed the wheel on highway 55 in the Blazer and spun it completely around, me and my kids and the vehicle." Fortunately, he said, he regained control and avoided a wreck. "For the sake of my kids, after my son was born, it took everything I had to stay," he said. "It took everything I had. It was just a constant fight. I didn't know what to expect when I walked through the door of my house." Still, John Lawrence said he didn't believe Michelle Lawrence was responsible for the killings during the first hours after he learned about the shootings in a phone call from Jamie Orman's 14-year-old son. "I was in shock," he said. "I couldn't believe it. I wanted somebody to wake me up from this." He began seeing Jamie Orman, Lawrence said, after beginning the divorce proceedings. At the time of her death, they were planning a May wedding at Cape County Park South. "She had a heart of gold," Lawrence said of Orman. "She was a very wonderful, caring person. She was a wonderful mother. I loved her very much. She loved me very much." The difference, he said, was "heaven versus hell. That is exactly what it was ... heaven with Jamie, hell with Michelle." Jamie Orman even visited Michelle Lawrence and Ryan Patterson at one point in an attempt to calm relations. "Something Jamie always told me was that Michelle 'will never get past you. Michelle just can't let you go,'" John Lawrence said. His children and Jamie Orman's three boys got along well, and John Lawrence said he was excited about both having a bigger family and the new baby that was two months from being born. "We were all a big family," he said. "In a blink of an eye, all that was gone." As the interview closed, John Lawrence said he needed to send a message to Jamie Orman's surviving sons and her ex-husband. "Please let the Orman family know ... how sorry I am that this happened. And let the boys know how much my kids love them and I still love the boys, too." 388-3642 Pertinent addresses: 1224 N. Missouri Ave., Cape Girardeau, MO 921 Hackberry St., Cape Girardeau, MO 100 Court St., Jackson, MO Comments  Note: The nature of the Internet makes it impractical for our staff to review every comment. If you feel that a comment is offensive, please Login or Create an account first, and then you will be able to flag a comment as objectionable. Please also note that those who post comments on semissourian.com may do so using a screen name, which may or may not reflect a website user's actual name. Readers should be careful not to assign comments to real people who may have names similar to screen names. Refrain from obscenity in your comments, and to keep discussions civil, don't say anything in a way your grandmother would be ashamed to read.
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How can Morley Swingle let her off easy like he is. This and other recent decisions of his have left me doubting his current judgement.
Michelle Lawrence's actions are similar to how Charles Manson masterminded murders but had other people commit the act. Manson didn't specify exactly who should die, but he sent his followers out to kill. Almost 40 years later he is still in prison with no chance of parole. Should Michelle Lawrence get off any easier? Because of her three entire families have been irrevocably robbed of loved ones and a normal life.
My sincere feelings go out to John, all the surviving children and their families. Stay strong with love.
she didn't just ruin her own life, she brought down several others with her.
It's sad, sad news
I love you John. You are like a brother to me. Stay strong and God will help you through this. I will keep everyone in my prayers.
Isn't there some kind of law against conspiring to defraud the insurance company by use of deadly force?
It is so obvious what caused this divorce was Michelle's pshyco behavior. It takes a certain mentality to commit murder, and Michele had that.
WE WILL GET THROUGH THIS. JAMIE IS LOVED BY MANY. I WILL REFUSE TO SAY "WAS". SHE WILL ALWAYS BE MY BABY. NO ONE WILL EVER BE ABLE TO TAKE THAT AWAY FROM ME. I WAS NOT ABLE TO GET TO KNOW JOHN AND HIS FAMILY.BUT I DID MEET SOME AT THE FUNERAL HOME SATURDAY,I KNOW THEY LOVED JAMIE ALSO. WE HAVE LOST TWO MOST BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE AND ONE THAT HAD NOT YET HAD HIS MOTHER'S TOUCH OR GRANDMA'S HUGS AND KISSES.I AM PUTTING THIS IN GOD'S HANDS HE KNOWS WHAT IS BEST.I CAN NOT WASTE MY ENERGY ON PEOPLE WHO DO NOT DESERVE MY TIME.WE NEED TO PUT OUR ENERGY INTO MAKING SURE ALL THE CHILDREN INVOLVED IN THIS ARE GOING TO BE OKAY.IF THAT WILL EVEN BE POSSIBLE.I HAVE FAITH THAT OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM WILL DO EVERYTHING TO ENSURE EVERYONE INVOLVED WILL BE PUNISHED TO THE FULLEST EXTENT OF THE LAW.I HAVE SPOKE WITH MR. SWINGLE AND HE HAS EXPLAINED ALOT TO ME I DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW THESE THINGS WORK BUT HE DOES. HE KNOWS HIS JOB AND HE KNOWS I EXPECT A JOB WELL DONE BY HIM AND THIS PEOPLE. AT THIS TIME I WANT EVERYONE TO KNOW THAT THIS WAS NOT JOHN'S FAULT HE IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANYONE'S ACTIONS BUT HIS OWN.IT HAS BEEN HARD FOR ME BECAUSE I WANT TO BLAME SOMEONE FOR THIS, THATS WHY I AM PUTTING IT IN GOD'S HANDS. I AM DEVISTATED BY ALL THIS AND TORN BETWEEN TWO FAMILIES.PLEASE UNDERSTAND WE ARE ALL GREIVING AND NEED EVERYONE'S PRAYERS AND CONCERN. IT IS WHAT HAS KEPT ME GOING KNOWING ALL THE PRAYERS FROM EVERYONE FOR OUR FAMILIES.I CAME HOME LAST NIGHT AND WAS GIVEN A CARD THAT JAMIE HAD BOUGHT FOR ME BUT NEVER MAILED. IT HAD GOTTEN WET AND THE ENVELOPE HAD STUCK TO THE CARD. NEEDLESS TO SAY IT WAS THE MOMENT THAT BROKE ME. I TRIED TO BE STRONG IN MO. BUT I KNEW IT WAS NOT GOING TO LAST. AS WE TRY TO PICK UP THE PEICES OF OUR LIVES PLEASE REMEMBER THERE ARE INNOCENT CHILDREN INVOLVED IN THIS AND WE NEED TO SHOW RESPECT FOR THE ORMAN'S AND JOHN'S FAMILY ALSO.I HAVE READ SOME COMMETS ABOUT THE MEDIA AT THE SERVICE LET ME EXPLAIN SO NO ONE WILL HAVE BAD THOUGHTS ANYMORE AGAINT THEM. THEY CALLED AND REQUESTED TO BE THERE NO CAMERAS OR PICTURES WERE TO BE TAKEN BY THEM. AFTER ALL THE HORRIBLE STORIES SURROUNDING THIS WE WANTED DERRICK'S FRIENDS TO TELL THE GOOD STUFF AND GOOD TIMES THEY SHARED WITH HIM AT HOME, SCHOOL AND AROUND TOWN.AND FROM JAMIE'S FRIENDS ALSO THAT SHE WORKED WITH,GREW UP WITH AND DID THE THINGS THAT KIDS DO THAT DRIVE US PARENTS CRAZY.BRUCE WAS ASKED AND HE SAID IT WOULD BE OKAY AND I WAS ASKED ALSO AND WE NEED TO REMEMBER ALL THE GOOD THINGS. I UNDERSTAND THAT THE REPORTER TRIED TO TALK TO SOME OF DERICK'S FRIENDS BUT THEY WERE TO UPSET TO TALK ABOUT HIM.PLEASE REMEBER OUR FAMILIES IN YOUR PRAYERS. THANK YOU JAMIE'S MOM AND DERRICK AND JOEY'S GRANDMA
I just read the post by Jamies Mom. I am so sorry for the loss of your daughter and your two grandsons. I don't know how your even able to type at this time but your words were very sweet and I am sure that you have made John feel somewhat better. I sincerely believe he loved your daughter very much and I don't even know him. Your right it isn't his fault, none of us are responsible for any actions other than our own. All three of the people involved in these murders are the only ones responsible and they must pay to the fullest. They need to be put to death or locked up for the rest of their lives so they don't do this again. I hope all of continue to get the strenght you need from God to get through the days. God Bless you.
Women can be such psychos. I wonder how many men stick out the marriage because of the safety of the kids. I bet it's more than we know.
Libra's comments are interesting.
Manson didn't conspire and plan to specifically kill Sharon Tate. SO why then does it matter that Michelle Lawrence claims that she only conspired to kill David?
A plan was set in motion by Lawrence to commit murder, she acted toward that end, she told the killers where to go and when, etc.
Getting help for mental illness still has too much of a stigma, and costs lives. This whole mess could have been avioided if she sought help. A dr. could have accessed homicidal tendancies and could have perscribed strong meds or a trip to Farmington. Instead, innocent people are dead and families are shattered. My prayers are with all involved.
I think what Michelle Lawrence and the others did was unforgiveable and they should be punished to the max. But I think it's odd that John Lawrence is wanting to be in the spotlight so much. I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt as he has endured such a huge trauma and I'm sure he is still angry and wanting to lash out at his wife and I'm sure he is angry over he plea deal if there is one for sure. But I think anyone with half a brain would take his statements regarding Michelle Lawrence (his wife) with a grain of salt. Ask any man who is going thru a hostile divorce and he'll pretty much have the same stories, wife=hell, girlfriend=heaven, wife=crazy, girlfriend=good, wife=evil/mean, girlfriend=loving. Then, after he marries the girlfriend, a few years down the road if there's a divorce it's the same way, wife=crazy, new girlfriend=good, etc. You get the idea. Just remember there are always two sides and I'm sure if Michelle Lawrence were to speak, she'd pretty much have the same to say about her husband and some stories she could tell to prove how unstable she thought he was. I doubt she will speak as she is surely smart enough to keep her mouth shut at this time. I'm just saying I don't think John Lawrence is as innocent/kind as he wants everyone to believe in his marriage to Michelle. I could be wrong as there are always exceptions, but I doubt it. This doesn't mean I condone the actions of the others. Indeed, those 3 should pay dearly for what they did! They took Jami's life who chose to be in that situation but they also took the lives of completely innocent children who were placed in the middle of a feud thru no choice of their own. But why did Jami Orman put her childrens' lives in danger by having them at the home of Michelle Lawrence when there was so much violence and if as they say, death threats? I just don't get that part of it. I'd never risk the lives of my children just so I could live with a man. A Mother's responsibility is foremost the safety of her children. Maybe the paper can find someone to interview that could shed some light on that marriage from Michelle's point of view.. Hope everyone understands I'm not taking sides, just trying to understand the entire situation. Don't know either of them, maybe that is why I'm looking at this analytically instead of emotionally. Either way, the three of those changed the lives of so many people and they should be punished to the max. I can't imagine how the families' are getting through this and I do have sympathy/empathy for them. May God help you through this horrible, horrible thing. I am sure the anger the families have at this time is almost unbearable. I'm so sorry for you.
qzerp- do you have any idea how expensive that care is? I know somene who had a teenager that was suicidal. It took 3 months just to get into a psychiatrist. (She had called every one in the phone book within 50 miles!)This psychiatrist did not take her insurance so she had to pay $250 per visit in cash before her daughter could be seen. I felt so bad for her, that woman had to quit her job and be around he daughter 24/7 because she was so afraid she would end up dead. Imagine having to wait 3 months in fear to be seen!
IN RESPONSE TO MYMYMY I AM HOME TRYING TO GET THINGS IN ORDER AND WHEN I GET OVERWELMED I SIT AND READ THE COMMENTS. LET ME ASSURE YOU JOHN IS NOT SEEKING THE SPOTLIGHT REPORTERS ARE CALLING HIM AND US ALSO FOR STATEMENTS. IF HE DOES NOT TALK PEOPLE WILL THINK HE IS HIDING SOMETHING.REMEMBER WE ARE TRYING TO COPE AND TALKING ABOUT OUR LOVED ONES HELPS.HE IS EXPRESSING HIS FEELINGS.THERE ARE MANY FEELINGS WE ARE ALL HAVING THAT ARE WELL LEFT UNSAID THE BITTERNESS AND HATERED WILL ONLY HURT NOT HELP US TO HEAL AGAIN THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR ALL THE SUPPORT AND PRAYERS. JAMIE'S MOM
per this article "He began seeing Jamie Orman, Lawrence said, after beginning the divorce proceedings." Must just be a coincidence then that Jamie Orman's husband Bruce filed for divorce against her on June 12, 2008 and the very next day June 13, 2008 John Lawrence filed for divorce against his wife. Not that it matters, as it is not against the law to have an affair, but I feel it leaves questions for me about John's complete honesty/innocence in his relationship with Michelle. google casenet if you need to verify
Re: the Tate and LaBianca murders
In CA v. Manson the state was able to find him guilty of murder because of CA's joint-responsibility rule of conspiracy.
A Missouri PA can not file a charge if Missouri doesn't have a particular law.
My sincere condolences to the families.
I have put this off for several days but I really feel the need to post my opinion on this. While there is NO excuse for these crimes and the deaths are tragic and senseless I cannot help but notice that no one is mentioning one thing. This man cheated on his wife. It doesn't matter that they were seperated, until the divorce goes through it is cheating. While Michelle Lawrence may very well have needed mental help, why didn't her husband get it for her? Your spouse is supposed to be there for you for better or worse, why didn't he get her help? Why did he start dating before the divorce went through? The only person completely at fault here imo is the man (I use the term loosely given his crimes) who pulled the trigger on the gun. No matter who asked, hinted, told him to do anything he did not HAVE to do it. While Lawrence should definately be punished I cannot help but think of what kind of place she was in. I am not sure at all that she intended for a child, a baby and even the woman who was cheating with her husband to be harmed. I am not trying to make excuses but only make the point that all of the adults in this situation seem to have made very bad and selfish choices. Also, when someone acts 'crazy', maybe instead of putting them down for it if you are family or close to them you should get them help instead. Mental illness is an illness just like heart problems, diabetes, etc. It is not something someone can help.
mymymy, seriously, have a little couthe. noone on here cares when so and so filed for divorce. jamie's mom is on here reading our comments because it makes her feel better, and with comments like yours, it's just rude.
to boxermom,
I didn't bring up the question when John and Jamie started seeing each other, John brought it up in this article. If he didn't want it to be public knowledge then he shouldn't have brought it up in his interview.
I am sorry for Jamie's Mom and what she is going through. But on a forum like this there will always be both sides of the story. That's just the way it is.
Sounds like "Cape County Publishers" will have this book on the shelves, at a bookstore near you, real soon...
I think if any of you have anything nasty to say then why don't you just stay off of here. These people are suffering and your horrible remarks about the deceased and the ones left to live this senseless tradgedy are cruel. I didn't know Jamie or anyone involved here and maybe to answer one of your questions about why Jamie had her kids there. Maybe she loved them and wanted them with her and even thought there was trouble with the wife, Jamie would have never thought anyone could do such a horrific thing, because she was such a good person.
I never said she wasn't a good person! This article addressed the fact of when Jamie and John started dating. I merely mentioned the coincidence regarding the divorce dates. Think about the way John Lawrence describes Michelle. Stereotypical divorce statements. You say Jamie was "such a good person". She may have been, but do you think if we'd asked her ex Bruce about her during their divorce he'd have something different to say, maybe closer to what John Lawrence said about his wife. All I said was there is always, always two sides to a divorce and one side is always self-serving. Never said she wasn't a good person. Just wondered why if Michelle was such a whack job then why would Jamie move herself into Michelle's home and allow her kids to stay in a hostile environment. Never said she wasn't a "good person". Good people make mistakes too...Making a mistake doesn't mean she isn't a good person. You took my remarks as being horrible. Does factual equate horrible in your dictionary?
I don't care for Morley Swingle's rationale for why he couldn't file more charges against Michelle Lawrence. There are plenty of situations in the career of a prosecutor where the prosecutor needs to cowboy-up and say, "We're charging her with the max that we think we can prove and I'll let a judge tell me I can't bring those charges." Morley's too weak even to do that.
Sadly, the comment about Swingle publishing another third-rate crime story about this is probably right on the money. The people of Cape really deserve better than this guy. The victims of Michelle Lawrence deserve better.
WHO CARES when they started dating?! seriously. drop it.
Mymymy Dr Phil your not!!! (:
Why do all you whackos keeping referring to John cheating on Michelle b/c they were technically still married (although the divorce was filed and pending) and FAIL to mention that Michelle was also living with someone else? If you are going to point fingers about cheating -- so was she -- and it was with a person who was capable of being a stone cold killer. Obviously those of you focusing on the cheating aspect have been cheated on and blame all the problems in your life on the fact that you were cheated on. THIS CASE IS NOT about cheating -- it is about GREED. Michelle didn't ask her boyfriend to kill her husband's girlfriend to try and get her husband back. She wanted insurance money for the death of her husband and insurance money for the house. GREED (and pure evil) caused this triple homicide.
This is John Lawrence don't be so judgmental of me and our of Jamie. None of you have taking one step in mine or Jamie's shoes. The facts are three people died do you think our care who's lifes have changed all in a blink of a eye. Just for a second with out judgment stand back and say what would I do if this happen to me. Until you have gone through this yourself our lived my life don't throw stones. When you probably live in a glass house yourself.You should not judge people you don't know.How would you feel if you was the target for your ex husband or wife and they killed your son our daughter and you are still here to suffer and hurt everyday. And your kids try to comfort you and they are telling you it will be ok dad. I am not trying to be in the spotlight I just wanted to let people know how much I love Jamie she was my everything.So please dont't pass judgment on Jamie or me we are two people that love each other.Until you have went through what I have you have no room to talk. So please don't be so negative toward the Orman's or the Lawrence's you people have no clue.What any of us are going through.Just like my mother told me growing up if you cant say something nice don't say nothing at all
John you said,
Just like my mother told me growing up if you cant say something nice don't say nothing at all" What about all the crap you've said about Michelle? Guess you only follow your Mom's advice when it suits you. Self-serving yes? If I were you I'd stay off public forums and just lay low for a while and try to help your own kids get through this whole ordeal. They didn't ask to be put in the spotlight by doing interviews.
OKAY ANOTHER BREAK TIME.HELP WAS OBTAINED MANY TIMES FOR MICHELLE.SHE LEARNED TO PLAY THE PEOPLE GET HER ATTENTION.NOTHING ABOUT THIS IS RIGHT LOTS OF THINGS JUST DID NOT GO RIGHT MANY,MANY PEOPLE TRIED TO HELP MICHELLE. TIME AND TIME AGAIN JOHN TRIED YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER A PERSON HAS TO WANT HELP IN ORDER TO GET HELP.AT LEAST TO REALY BENIFIT FROM THE HELP THAT WAS THERE.WE HAVE ALL LOST VERY PRECIOUS PEOPLE THAT WE ALL LOVED ALOT. BAD CHOICES WERE MADE AND MY DAUGHTER HAS PAID THE HIGHEST PRICE FOR HER CHOICES AND THERE IS GREAT PAIN IN THE WAKE OF HOLES IN THE SYSTEM THAT CAN LET SOMEONE WALK THE STREETS THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN PUT AWAY ALONG TIME AGO. HER FAMILY IS EVEN SAYING THINGS WERE NOT RIGHT WITH HER. REMEMBER THE INNOCENT THAT NOW MUST GO ON AND FACE THE NEW DAY WITH OUT OUR LOVED ONES THANK YOU AGAIN FOR ALL YOUR PRAYERS.
mymymy- you are awful.
I'm not putting my kids in the spotlight. My kids are not doing interviews.The media came to me. Why are you so quick to be judgmental MYMYMY. Have you ever lived with a bipolar person have you ever had to deal with someone who is mental? And I tried to get help for her some people don't want help she spent time at southeast hospital. For her condition. I am not responsible to make her take her meds or make her go to the dr.She is a grown women not a child. There are so many things you know nothing about. I am glad for you that you have lived such a sheltered life.And you live in this perfect world. Do you not get it three people have died and the hand of greed. Why does that not click with you. Like I said put yourself in my shoes if you are man our women enough try a small slice of my life and I bet you you will change your whole out look on this whole thing. All I can say is I love Jamie with all my heart and I will leave it at that.
Just a bit of advise to Jamies Mom and to her boyfriend. You can not argue with ignorant people. Your wasting your energy. They don't matter. God bless you both.
mymymy apparently never read the line above the comment box, "Please be respectful of others..." I suggest you heed that advice.
JOHN,WE KNOW THE TRUTH SAD AS IT IS, BE STRONG I WILL NOT BE POSTING ANYMORE TONIGHT. I HAVE ONLY GOOD THOUGHTS ABOUT OUR FAMILIES AND DO NOT NEED THE CIRCUS TO CONTINUE.THIS IS A FREE COUNTRY AND FREEDOM OF SPEACH AND SO FORTH BUT I NEVER DREAMED WE WOULD BE HERE WITH OUR PAIN.I ACHE FOR THE ORMAN FAMILY BECAUSE I KNOW IT FIRST HAND WE HAVE ALL LOST SO MUCH. YOU TO JOHN.I KNOW WHAT JAMIE WOULD WANT ME TO DO AND WILL KEEP HER WISHES AS BEST I CAN. REMEMBER OUR FAMILIES IN YOUR PRAYERS THANK YOU.
I only commented on statements and facts John Lawrence himself made. Ex re the time they started dating. I only commented on that because he apparently thought it was important enough to make sure the paper reporter knew that for some reason. You can't have it both ways. If you are going to go public and make statements, then prepare for other opinions and views. That, eileen113, is not disrepectful in my opinion. Your opinion may be different than mine, but hey, isn't that why we have freedom of speech laws. I personally think it was an error in judgement for John to make public statements at this time. He's setting Michelle up for an insanity defense. He himself, talks all about her mental illness and time in the hospital and how she was "mental" when she didn't take her meds. Michelle probably hopes he keeps on yapping....he may just be her PRIME DEFENSE Witness!
MYMYMY what is your deal do you not care for other lifes. Are you a friend of Michelle's you sure are quck to deffend her.Just because a person is bipolar doesnt give them the right to kill innocent people. And a 15 year old boy and my unborn son. And all you keep addressing is you feel you have to come to Michelle's defense. Stop making it look like Michelle is the victim. Like I said before dont throw stones when you live in a glass house. This whole thing was over greed.I love Jamie with all my heart. And your opinion of me means nothing to me.
i like to know if john has his kids know living with him and how old they are? i can only imagineif it was one of my family members or my grandson. my prayers and thoughts are with you
Everyone, get off this site and pray for a while.
so now mymymy is a lawyer too! hilarious!
To John and Jamies family may god be with you.Ignore all the rude people.Hang in there things will get better the people that did this will get what they deserve.I seen u at save a lot the other day john and u know who i am.I will keep all of in my prayers.
What to this family is sad.No matter what they didnt deserve to die.I agree Bad momma.
I meant what happened to this family is sad.
Terri and John, I am so sorry for your loss..A piece of you has been ripped out and you won't ever get it back. Although you won't get the piece back the wound caused by this piece being ripped out will heal. The wound will heal but it will leave a hole. Do not let hate rule you thoughts because that will eat at your mental and physical health. You still have a family that needs a healthy you. Don't let her win in the end.
An explaination to the couple of posters who wonder why Michelle cannot be charged with murder. Because she admitted to conspiring to commit felony murder of her husband, John Lawrence. Charles Manson conspired to commit felony murders on anyone in the houses therefore he could be charged with murder. John Lawrence didn't die so Michelle cannot be charged with murder. Now if they can get a few credible witnesses to testify that Michelle stated in the recent past that she wanted Ms Orman dead then all bets are off and we will see if the prosecuting attorney will grow a pair. My opinion is that Michelle signed a plea agreement early and was willing to provide the posecutor the name of the shooter. In order to negate this plea agreement the PA will have to have EVIDENCE that Michelle lied in her plea agreement, KTBA
Never Know more might come out before its over.And she might get alot more time.Its not over yet.
Would a judge have to accept the charges that Swingle brings? Can't the judge charge her with whatever he deems fit?
John,
I worked with you at HAVCO, You always were a good guy that I enjoyed working with. I am so sorry for your loss, no one deserves to go through this and this is NOT your fault. My prayers and thoughts are with you and your family.
John, if you need to go fishing, or hiking, or squirell or rabbit hunting, let me know. I don't know you, and you don't know me. But going out and doing something in nature works for me to take away the stress.
whereisthejustice, I'm surprised you are even smart enough to turn on a computer. It is difficult at best to read your posts. syco perhaps you meant psycho.lol. also you stated you need to keep the family and finance in mind. What about their finances? I don't even understand that statement.
mymymy....Attack their logic (or lack thereof), not their spelling.
I agree with mymymy that a story about John Lawrence trashing his ex-wife and her erratic, jealous spats is in bad taste. John Lawrence isn't at fault for that, SEMissourian is. They didn't need to publish, "I hope she fries," or details about their fights while they were married. It comes off as trivial, gossipy, and extremely unprofessional.
Did it ever occur to anyone that Michelle lured Patterson into these crimes with a promise of money, all the while knowing that John was not in the home. Patterson goes down for the crime, girlfriend and her baby are out of the way, and Michelle would then be free to pursue her obsession with John.
Even if she had thought John would have been in the home, did she think Patterson would kill John only to leave Jamie alive and a witness?
Michelle was well aware that Jamie also lived in that home and therefore imo intended for her to die along with John and her unborn child.
I believe Michelle knew John was not at home, that the house would be burnt with Jamie inside, and that she thought John would come running back to her alone and in need after after all was said and done.
Sound like a stretch? Possibly. But then again one must consider the mind set of a person with mental problems. Sick people do not think the way normal people do and I think it has been established that Michelle is not quite "right".
God bless you John Lawerence and the Orman family. This is your neighbor. If there is anything we can do for you or your family to help you thru this, please let us know...we arent far away. We (the neighborhood) are keeping you and your families in our thoughts and prayers. We are very sorry for your losses
I know everyone is on here trashing the wife and saying what a saint John Lawrence is. I personally don't know either but I'm smart enough to read between the lines. He's trashing his wife, basically calling her mean and yet he has a pending adult abuse charge hearing to be held on Nov 12. What adult was he abusing? Michelle's friends have stated he abused Michelle. Looks like maybe they were correct in the abusiveness.
John- don't listen to mymymy or waste your time with this person- she doesn't live in reality.
My brother was married to a person who is bipolar and unmedicated. My ex-sister-in-law did so many crazy things it would take me all day to tell you them! But I will tell you the breaking point for my brother. My ex-sister-in-law call 911 and said "help, my husband is going to shoot me" and then shot herself in the shoulder. When the police arrived 6 officers threw my brother down and roughed him up while handcuffing him in front of his children. He sat in jail until they discovered the gun residue on my ex-sister-in-laws hands and none on my brother's.
I know another bipolar unmedicated person in Cape. I have witnessed many points of insanity she has displayed including cussing out a child.
Unless someone has walked in your shoes John, they have no idea what life you lived. Don't listen to those who judge you, they will never understand.
mymymy
in a divocrce case you often find accusations of abuse and stalking and filings of restraining order. IT DOES NOT MEAN ANYTHING HAPPENED! If you notice all the previous counts were DROPPED against John because nothing happeneed.
All a woman has to do is walk down to city hall and fill out a complaint. It is free. Then there is a hearing and a judge rules. It is a way to gain control and power for a couple of weeks over the other person involved in a divorce. Ask any attorney and they will tell you that this is a game in divorces.
perhaps if you educated yourself mymymy, you wouldn't be such an intolerable __________.
BadMomma, I never had anything deleted by you so you need to get your facts straight. Someone on here resorting to calling me a foul name just proves ignorance and lack of ability to form a rational sentence or thought.
You just made Michelle Lawrence's case should the plea agreement be thrown out. Even you, who apparently thinks the wife should die in prison, stated you knew a bipolar person and "witnessed many points of INSANITY". Insanity is a real defense you know, happens every day in this country. Do I think Michelle Lawrence was insane? No. I think at that point she was probably wanting revenge when she helped plan what she did and she should be severely punished for that.
I know everyone is supporting John Lawrence for his loss as you should. He has suffered a horrible horrible loss. And Bruce Orman (I think that's the boys' Dad's name-correct me if wrong) has lost his son and the Mother of his sons also. We should say we are so sorry for his loss as well in case he reads this.
BadMomma, so let me see if I understand. You are saying that this latest abuse charge against John Lawrence is Michelle again? Hmmm, did she make bond, I just figured she couldn't come up with the $250,000 bond that was set since she was indigent. Guess we'll see how that adult abuse hearing plays out this time.
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"
Surely someone knows the answer to my question this morning....is John's current adult abuse hearing against Michelle? Is she out of jail?
Mymymy, DROP IT.
Sure, this is a forum where you can talk about any one side of any story, that's obvious, but there is also something called respect, etiquette and common courtesy, which you SERIOUSLY lack.
Don't blame the fact that the forums are open to both sides for your nasty and unwarranted comments, because you have the opportunity to be the bigger person and keep your negativity for yourself instead of spreading it like wildfire on these forums and to the people who are suffering.
Seriously, have some flippin' RESPECT and keep your ridiculous opinions to yourself. Actually step in someone else's shoes and have some empathy for the ones who are hurting through this ordeal. How would you feel? Would you want some idiotic know-it-all trying to put their nasty two cents in if someone you loved was murdered? I don't think you would.
xXAngelicEvilXx: Funny you scold me for my comments as you think they are negative. Wonder why you are on your high horse now about posting negative comments. Here's a copy of one of your posts made not too long ago! This is from right here in the paper's forums--------------------
This is what you wrote:
And also to add....you care about my opinion so much why? It's my opinion. Do yourself a favor and don't care what I think. It shouldn't matter what I think, only what you think. If you don't like seeing negative posts, then don't visit this site, as it's packed full of negativity. I'm here to read the news, and I'll comment wherever I like on whatever I like. If you don't like or agree with it, then that's your issue and you're more than welcome to be angry. That doesn't change my opinion, which is neither right or wrong mind you.
-- Posted by xXAngelicEvilXx on Wed, Aug 12, 2009, at 9:52 PM
Hmmm, DITTO!
wow mymymy LOOK IN THE MIRROR!
BadMomma, read the entire post again. DO you recognize irony when you see it?
Gosh is this all you have to do.Seems like you are getting on everyones nerves.MyMyMy
whereisthejustice- I felt that was worth repeating!
Everyone who doesn't want to hear the other side of the story.
Thanks BadMomma
Now that you guys have gotten all your childishness out of the way let's get back to the original story. It states in this article, "He began seeing Jamie Orman, Lawrence said, AFTER beginning the divorce proceedings" Is that true? According to the divorce records Jamie Orman's husband filed divorce against her on June 12, 2008 and her address of where papers were served was John Lawrence's house. John Lawrence filed divorce on June 13, 2008. So let's get this right. Jamie Orman was already living with John Lawrence BEFORE he filed for divorce, but he states "he began seeing her AFTER beginning divorce proceedings (which is June 13) I guess Jamie was living there but he wasn't seeing her. See what I mean. This is exactly why I'm doubting John Lawrence without even knowing the man. It's like he's just making up the story like he wants it to be. I'd have more respect if he'd just be honest and say heck yeah I was already living with her. I'm not making the dates up, check casenet for proof.
mymymy.....case.net is not a reliable source of information regarding someone address. Someones address is updated as a case comes along. I, myself have a case from 2001, which shows my current address, which was not the same as it was in 2001. Also, if you know anything about how cases work and case.net you will see that Jamie was not served divorce papers at John's address. She and her ex-husband represented themselves and neither one of them were "served" anything.
Just thought I would point out that it doesn't matter when and who filed for divorce and where she was living at the time of the filings. But you need not rely so much on the addresses in case.net they change all the time.
And besides that....it doesn't matter much what they were doing and who was living where....3 lives were taken from their families for no good reason. And its none of our business what was going on in their personal lives. They all know and they need to be left alone to find a way the deal with what has happened.
mymymy....the current adult abuse case regarding John that you so much are worried about....I don't know who filed it, but if you go back to case.net you will see that it was actually DENIED. and the court date is only for the Petitioner to plead their case as to why the judge shouldn't deny it....if you want to know who it is....go the court and find out.
momof2/4 thanks for setting me straight on the casenet info. I wasn't aware that those addresses changed all the time. I stand corrected on that.
Re the pending adult abuse case. I wondered if Michelle was out of jail and it was another ex parte that she had filed. I don't plan on going to court to find out, besides, you'd think things like that would be settled behind closed doors to protect the petitioner. Don't know how the legal system works on those kind of things as luckily I've never been involved in any court thing.
I think what has happened is a tragedy. That is where some of you don't understand that. You stated it is none of our business what was going on in their personal lives. I would normally agree with you, except, John Lawrence made a point to bring his private life under public scrutiny when he did a newspaper interview talking all about the details in his private life. There is where the difference lies. If you don't want your private life to be public, don't do interviews with the media where you talk about your private life and then complain that people are talking about your private life....do you see the difference. John Lawrence opened the door and invited everyone in to his private life when he did this interview.
I do feel especially saddened by the fact that two completely innocent children were thrust into the middle of what appears to have been a whirlwind of threats and violence and chaos that ultimately cost them their lives. I'm not saying Jamie deserved anything so let's get that straight right away. No matter what mistakes or choices she made in her life, she never deserved to die. I'm saying she was an adult and made the choices on her own where her son and unborn son did not.
to mymymy,
i wanted to advise you of your results from my sister's divorce paperwork is WRONG! i have recieved some of my sister's belongings from the house. in them were the papers they filed with the court. at the time of filing, my sister lived my MY BASEMENT! we re-carpeted and re-painted for her to move into! she DID NOT live with Mr. Lawerence at that time!!!!!!! She was not even seeing him at that TIME!!!!! Her address is listed as mine on the papers filed June 12, 2008 and those same papers were stamped with the notary seal June 9, 2008 B4 filing!. Jamies address has since changes to Mr. Lawrences Missouri Ave addy. If you take notice Bruces address it is also not the one he lives in or lived in at the time of filing!!! so out of repect for OUR FAMILIES why don't you SHUT UP and STOP pointing fingers and making comments on issues you know NOTHING ABOUT because you THANKFULLY are NOT FAMILY, and FAMILY knows the true story! That's all i'm saying becuase people like you are NOT worth any more of my TIME or engery!
mymymy....I don't have anything to say about John, Jamie or what happened...I don't know any of them. I do feel for the families, I have children the same age and this was very close to my grandparents home.
I just wanted to let you know how case.net works. As for the court hearings regarding ex parte case. the actual hearing is behind closed doors, but prior to going before the Judge everyone is just free to chat in the hallway. they just assume that the fighting parties will stay clear of each other until they are called before the Judge. I have accompanied someone to court or I wouldn't have known how that part works.
MISSINGMYSISTER, I am sorry I didn't know that casenet went back and changed addresses of people from when the papers were filed to current. It is good that you cleared up the living situation at that time. Obviously, she was living with him before his divorce was final but so was Michelle living with someone else. I think many ppl do make judgements on someone living with someone else who is married, but in this case it appears that both parties had moved on with their lives and the divorce just hadn't happened "on paper". I think it is good that you got on here with actual facts to clear that part of it up. As far as shutting up, sorry can't do that. John Lawrence opened that can of worms with this article and made his private life public. I really don't understand though why the family would get on here to read a forum that expresses all views of a situation or article if it upsets them so.
mymymy ...... I am a friend of Jamie & Derricks family. The reason the family is on here reading these post is to be sure that people are getting the correct facts on this situation. I am sure they understand that people are going to "talk" and that is why when they respond to these posts it is only to correct any missunderstandings people have on this case. They loved their sister, daughter and nephews very much and it hurts them to see this negativety about them so they are trying to clear things up for people.
mymymy ...... I am a friend of Jamie & Derricks family. The reason the family is on here reading these post is to be sure that people are getting the correct facts on this situation. I am sure they understand that people are going to "talk" and that is why when they respond to these posts it is only to correct any misunderstandings people have on this case. They loved their sister, daughter and nephews very much and it hurts them to see this negativity about them so they are trying to clear things up for people.
MISSINGMYSISTER I dont know u or your family,but i am deeply sorry for what you and your family are going through.Some people are making comments that are just rude,but try not to let them get to you.They would feel different if it was their sister,daughter, or friend that people was making comments about that was rude. Hang in there!
mymymy
there is another way that case.net is confusing...
I divorced my husband and when I did I filed for divorce therefor I was listed as "petitioner" and he as "respondent." After the divorce was OVER, my ex took me back to court twice trying to modify it. But case.net still shows me as "petitioner" and he as "respondent" even though these times he was the one taking me to court. I asked my attorney about this and she said that it was because both new actions were to modify the original action inwhich I was petitioner for.
So on case.net it looks like I went after him 3 times and that isn't the case.