Limbaugh, Obama adviser trade barbs on Sunday morning talk shows

Rush making more money with his mouth. He braggs about his millions, why don't he help out his local community, by contributing for a new football stadium at Cape Central or Southeast Missouri State do something constructive for once instead of running his mouth all the time.

Front page news? Really, Southeast Missourian editors?

Its facinating that this makes national news. Why does anyone care about his opinion?? He doesn't hold an office or have any pull on actual politics. He's a commentator, plain and simple. While we are all getting worked up over news and opinions, I'm going to go ahead and say that Janeane Garofalo is egotistical and should be taken off the airways for her political influence... it's a ridiculous statement. I don't like her, so I don't listen. Period. I find I get my pants in a bind over opinions that I know are a little more truthful and a little closer to home... hmmm. I wonder why Axelrod felt the need to make a comment? When I can't change someones opinion of me and they speak "half-truths" and make their opinions known, I expect that those who believe in me are 1. smarter and 2. not listening anyway, so I roll my eyes and ignore the attitudes of those I cannot please (and there are a few). Considering this administration is working to find ways to make our decisions for us (i.e. taxes on sugary drinks and cigarettes, unyielding on healthcare reform despite it's need for reformation, etc.), it's no surprise that they are upset about a man who speaks opinions that do not co-inside with their own. Where were the news articles about liberal commentators speaking out against George Dubya?

To parrot a former poster, Southeast Missourian writers, Please! This is only embarrassing news for Cape Girardeau. Surely you can present articles that more closely reflect the generosity and kindness, not to mention the truth demonstrated by citizens in our community.

Rush is right about Obama and his playmates in the White House. AND.................

Rush owes this city nothing,if anything this city is using Rush. Rush worked and made his own money and it is not for anyone to say he should give it to this city for a new anything! People need to get over the ideal that people that have money should give it to someone else ! That would be their choice to do.

IT IS CALLED FREEDOM! TO MAKE MONEY AND TO GIVE MONEY!

Rush owes no one in this town anything!

Now Obama, you people that have your heads buried in the sand , if your children were over seas and needed more help to keep from getting killed and you see he is doing NOTHING ! How would you feel about him then? The photo opt I would say was a look at me how much I care about your children I'm standing here like I care and you believe me. If not a photo look at me, he would have not had pictures taken, he would have just let the people of that town spread the work he was there. Obama still will not make a decision to help our young men and women even while they are getting killed more and more each day they go without the help they need. See how much he Care's ! This guy only knows fame for himself and how to campaign and he can't seem to get off the campaign wagon.

If you want to get informed may I suggest watching FOX NEWS , Glen Beck, OR any of the great reporter's at FOX NEWS CHANNEL 205 DISH LOOK FOR IT ON CABLE THEY ARE THERE, and get the REAL TRUTH!!!!

i am a conservative. but i am a free thinking conservative. but mr limbaugh just needs to know his role and shut his hole. he is an entertainer. nothing more, nothing less. to say he is the mouthpiece of the conservatives, makes me ashamed to be one. i dont like the way the country is going. but it didnt start going down the crapper as soon as obama was elected. there were signs that things were not all rainbows and butterflies prior to him being elected. and to have some close-minded individual put all the blame on one man who has not been in office a year yet is ridiculous. there are problems in BOTH parties. the left AND the right need to find a place in the middle and get this country going again.

and yes there are more important things going on in this country, let alone the world and missouri than to give headlines to a man that has been fired (espn) or run out of a group (football ownership) because he sounds like a closet rascist-my opinion.

tired of the left or right? the new American Revoulution 2010

Limbaugh and Fox news are media-pimps and a real good ones. The thing about pimps: They know who their money-makers are and where to find them.

Limbaugh and Fox news are prime examples of free enterprise at its worst...

Buck

1. Mr. Obama is a very intellectual, charming individual. He is not to be underestimated. He is a cool customer who doesn't show his emotions. It's very hard to know what's behind the mask. The taking down of the Clinton dynasty was an amazing accomplishment. The Clintons still do not understand what hit them. Obama was in the perfect place at the perfect time.

2. Obama has political skills comparable to Reagan and Clinton . He has a way of making you think he's on your side, agreeing with your position, while doing the opposite. Pay no attention to what he SAYS; rather, watch what he DOES!

3. Obama has a ruthless quest for power. He did not come to Washington to make something out of himself, but rather to change everything, including dismantling capitalism. He can't be straightforward on his ambitions, as the public would not go along.

He has a heavy hand, and wants to level the playing field with income redistribution and punishment to the achievers of society. He would like to model the USA to Great Britain or Canada .

4. His three main goals are to control ENERGY, PUBLIC EDUCATION, and NATIONAL HEALTHCARE by the Federal government. He doesn't care about the auto or financial services industries, but got them as an early bonus. The cap and trade will add costs to everything and stifle growth. Paying for FREE college education is his goal. Most scary is his healthcare program, because if you make it FREE and add 46,000,000 people to a Medicare-type single-payer system, the costs will go through the roof. The only way to control costs is with massive RATIONING of services, like in Canada . God forbid!

5. He has surrounded himself with mostly far-left academic types. No one around him has ever even run a candy store. But they are going to try and run the auto, financial, banking and other industries.

This obviously can't work in the long run. Obama is not a socialist; rather he's a far-left secular progressive bent on nothing short of revolution. He ran as a moderate, but will govern from the hard left. Again, watch what he does, not what he says.

6. Obama doesn't really see himself as President of the United States , but more as a ruler over the world. He sees himself above it all, trying to orchestrate & coordinate various countries and their agendas. He sees moral equivalency in all cultures. His apology tour in Germany and England was a prime example of how he sees America , as an imperialist nation that has been arrogant, rather than a great noble nation that has at times made errors. This is the first President ever who has chastised our allies and appeased our enemies!

7. He is now handing out goodies. He hopes that the bill (and pain) will not come due until after he is reelected in 2012. He would like to blame all problems on Bush from the past, and hopefully his successor in the future. He has a huge ego, and he is a narcissist.

8. Republicans are in the wilderness for a while, but will emerge strong. Republicans are pining for another Reagan, but there will never be another like him. Mitt Romney, Tim Pawlenty & Bobby Jindahl (except for his terrible speech in February) are the future of the party. Newt Gingrich is brilliant, but has baggage. Sarah Palin is sincere and intelligent, but needs to really be seriously boning up on facts and info if she is to be a serious candidate in the future. We need to return to the party of lower taxes, smaller government, personal responsibility, strong national defense, and state's rights.

9. The current level of spending is irresponsible and outrageous. We are spending trillions that we don't have. This could lead to hyperinflation, depression or worse. No country has ever spent themselves into prosperity. The media is giving Obama, Reid and Pelosi a pass because they love their agenda. But eventually the bill will come due and people will realize the huge bailouts didn't work, nor will the stimulus package.These were trillion-dollar payoffs to Obama's allies, unions and the Congress to placate the left, so he can get support for #4 above.

10. The election was over in mid-September when Lehman brothers failed, fear and panic swept in, we had an unpopular President, and the war was grinding on indefinitely without a clear outcome. The people are in pain, and the mantra of change caused people to act emotionally. Any Dem would have won this election; it was surprising it was as close as it was.

11. In 2012, if the unemployment rate is over 10%, Republicans will be swept back into power. If it's under 8%, the Dems continue to roll. If it's between 8-10%, it will be a dogfight. It will all be about the economy. I hope this gets you really thinking about what's happening in Washington and Congress. There is a left-wing revolution going on. Keep the faith and join the loyal resistance. The work will be hard, but we're right on most issues and can reclaim our country, before it's far too late.

All our futures and children's futures depend on our good understanding of what is really going on in DC, and our action pursuant to that understanding!! It really IS up to each of us to take individual action!! Start with educating your friends and neighbors!!!

Rush is actually No. 1 on my bucket list. I can't wait to read his obituary.

mr69mopar,

Do you realize you're regurgitating what very media you curse has nipple-fed you? Educate yourself. Go for a long walk. Read a good book (other than the Bible) or something.

Buck

Rush Limbaugh is quite generous. I have no comment on the other junk.

Semo56, Hear, Hear! Excellent post!

Kim, Swampeast, Mr69, Buck, luvbball, Toby, & Nodisc-------Envy slays itself by its own arrows. ~Author Unknown

Semo56...Thank you! You make the conservative poplulation proud. An intelligent and logical commentary. Wish all would express their thoughts as well, as oposed to thinking that a rich individual (just because he is rich) should foot the bill for a new football stadium.

Wait, did I just see Rush compared to Al Capone?

Yes, Rush and his crime syndicate must be stopped.

Why doesn't he give back some of the wealth he has generated through bootlegging, prostitution, and tax evasion? Heavens to betsy.

Radical leadership?

Why does Drugs Limbaugh never back up his arguments with facts?

Hey buckerup,

I'm NOT puking up anything....Conservatives are the "free thinkers"....it's your side of the aisle that is into "regurgitation"....I saw and heard Obama myself say these VERY words;"The United States Constitution is an old, outdated document that stands in the way of progress."....I only saw it once because the "state run" media covered it up....but then they have covered up MUCH of this man's life, his associations, his HOPE to CHANGE the America that started with the Declaration of Independence so many years ago....they had to cover up for him because they couldn't have gotten him elected had they NOT done so....I appreciate your attempt to redirect but at least be honest, not even you can argue with the fact that Obama has traveled far and wide, visiting every dictator enemy of America and talked America down....I would think that would make you mad at him....I mean you do love America don't you? Obama DOES NOT love America, if actions speak louder than words....obviously he feels VERY at home with the pot bellied dictator types....I just wish he had run for President in one of those other countries that hate us so much. At least that wouldn't have been TREASONOUS! Obama is a traitor to America and has violated the oath he swore upon taking office.

WELL SAID SEMO 56.

NO ONE KNOWS WHAT RUSH GIVES BACK TO THE COMMUNITY. THEY assume MUCH AND KNOW VERY LITTLE. WHEN ONE WISHES TO SEE THE NAME OF RUSH IN THE OBIT, THAT SAME WISH ON THE PRESIDENT WOULD BE CONSIDERED A THREAT AND THAT PERSON WOULD RECEIVE A VISIT FROM THE SECRET SERVICE.

ONE THING I HAVE OBSERVED FROM THE LIBERALS IS THIS: WHATEVER THEY ACCUSE THE CONSERVATIVES OF DOING, THEY HAVE DONE, ARE DOING, OR PLANNING TO DO IN THE FUTURE.

ANYONE BELIEVING THAT OBAMA IS GOOD FOR THIS COUNTRY DEFINITELY HAS A LEARNING CURVE IN FRONT OF THEM. HE IS THE MOST DISHONEST SLICKEST POLITICIAN IN THE FREE WORLD. SNAKE OIL SALES AT ITS BEST.

Hey Ike,

I just posted a response to "buckerup" that explains most of it....how many facts do you need? NO President in my lifetime (53 years) has ever appointed "Czars"....America has NEVER had "Czars"....he has done the Czar thing to bypass the Constitution...Obama has assumed authorities, not granted him by that document, to just tell CEO's of major corporations that they must "step down'....under WHAT authority does he do this?....then he just steals from the stock holders of GM and Chrysler by "taking the stock" and giving it to the "union officials"....Ike, that is the act of a Fascist Government not the American Government....Obama has done EVERYTHING he can do to destroy the American economy....and don't regurgitate (using buckerup's word) those fake job numbers....Ike it's time to wake up and see the "big picture"....he intends to destroy capitalism (what our country was founded on and allowed us to enjoy our way of life) and GROW the government....and to make THE PEOPLE servants of that government (look at the health care bill and the punishments for those not doing what the government tells them to do)....Obama can keep his CHANGE....I like America the way she is....if he doesn't like America....he should LEAVE! He can go to some third world country and run to be dictator there and I hope he takes the rest of the people who hate America with him....they can be his "servants" elsewhere.

Well said "Peter_Grant and My own"!

Do you guys think it will be possible to get Rush to run for President in 2012? I know many people who are hoping for this.

Hey TheCamp,

I wish he would but I think he feels he has too much baggage....he wouldn't want to be opened up like the media is supposed to do, that is until Obama. I would vote for Rush in an instant....he thinks the most like Ronald Reagan of anyone I know and God knows we NEED another Reagan!....How about Rush and Palin together....talk about "dream team"....if only!

Buck,

If that is so why aren't you guys on the left laughing....you are so full a hatred and anger....wishing the man dead and the idiot comparisons to gangsters....if he is such a joke why don't you take some time out from your anger and just "LAUGH"!!!

It seems that Limbaugh's ratings are strong across the nation. He wouldn't be the biggest radio personality, by far, with just the "Bible belt."

He has strong ratings even in areas that are not considered hick by the elite.

Mr69mopar,

The only people I would "wish dead" are child molesters and rapists. And I'm not angry. I'm quite happy actually. I just hate to see what the likes of Limbaugh and other pseudo-super preachers are doing to folks such as yourself.

I'm not a lefty or righty. I'm a Patriot. Regardless of who's sitting in the White House.

Buck

Hey lumbrgfktr and Buck,

lumbrgfktr, I doubt there is a link to it....I didn't see it online....I saw it during the campaign and I can't even say if it was while running against Hilary Clinton or during the presidential bid but I saw Obama addressing an audience when he said; "The United States Constitution is an old, outdated document that stands in the way of progress."....his OWN WORDS....it was a televised event so it would seem likely that it exists somewhere but I bet you will never get that TV station to play it again....I found it incredible that there was no mention of it after the day that I saw it anywhere I have found....the state run media would have crucified a Republican candidate for such a statement....and they knew they had to put a lid on it or Obama was finished!

Buck, Rush Limbaugh is doing NOTHING to me....I started listening to him in 1991....I listen to him because he says the things that I am thinking....and for a long time there was nobody else out there speaking for people like me....do I agree with Rush always?....NO, I disagree with him on a few things....mostly things dealing with personal hardships as they can't all be avoided if only you work hard enough....I doubt Rush ever knew any TRULY desperate financial times....but that doesn't disqualify all the other things he says that are absolutely correct....I have seen the time when I couldn't get a job....like during the end of the Carter Administration....and that time is going to seem like a GOOD TIME compared to what is coming if Obama isn't stopped....Rush speaks for many people who love this country and hate to see where the liberals are taking it....his feigned arrogance is aimed at driving the liberals and the Democrats crazy...which it does....he doesn't believe that ego maniac stuff that he says....if you were a regular listener you would know that....it is just to get under the Democrats skin....he thinks it's funny....personally, I think that some of the issues that he pokes fun at the Democrats and Liberals with isn't funny at all....it might be funny if the stakes weren't so high....America is under attack sir, make NO MISTAKE about that....the Obama Administration intends to destroy the America that began with the Declaration of Independence....I don't know ANY patriot that is going to like Obama's remake of America....it IS NOT the President's job to redo America....that is why he swears an oath when he is inaugurated to defend and uphold the Constitution....Obama has broken his vow!

Mr69,

The reason I asked is becasue I would be interested in reading somthing like that. For me, I rely on witnessing somthing first hand. So Sorry if I don't beleive you.

And here is somthing I love when people discuss politics. The country is going to get worse, everything is going to hell in a handbasket, yada yada yada? Really? Then why is my company now making more money? Why has my retirement rebounded? Instead of being pessimistic about the future, why can't people be honest and realistic? Facts speak much louder than dilusional presumtions.

Rush speaks for people who love this country? Are you saying that people who don't listen to rush don't love their country?

I also don't get the double standard. People who listen to rush also often talk about obama and his expanding governement and stripping of personal freedom? Why were they not vocal durring the Bush years?

Seriously, Obama intends to DESTROY america. Well guess what, I actually have faith in our founding fathters. I have faith in our constitution. Just because Rush says somthing like "Obama wants to rip it up" doesn't make it ture. Tell me, if he is really trying to "destroy" america, what laws has he passed? What specificly has he done? Actually, he really has done nothing.

Redo America? What does that even mean? The american public voted, Obama won. Time to get over it.

Wow Mopar, between you and SEMO56 it sounds like all Obama needs is a white Persian cat to be a James Bond villain. How is it that you can remember exactly what he said but not when he said it, where, or in what context?

And who is behind the "state run media" that is supposedly suppressing this damning evidence? Do you think it is congress? The Illuminati? SPECTRE? The Evil League of Evil? The Cavity Creeps?

As for Rush, he is an entertainer. You said you have been listening to him since '91 and he says the things you are thinking. Does that mean you think he's, "tell'n it like it is" or is it possible that he is just pandering to you? Telling you what you want to hear so that you'll feel smart and say "Rush is Right!" and "Ditto!"

Mr69mopar,

You knew Obama was coming to destroy America before he was elected.

Hey, at least you are a logical free thinker who makes judgements based on facts.

When Obama is finished, there might be many people who voted for him voting republican. And I might be one of them. However, I will have to let the facts play out before I make that decision.

Actually its you who lost when Obama won, not the american people. You are the one who refuses to give him a chance because you say he will destroy america. So even if we are much better off in 4 years, you still won't vote for him.

I will make my decision come elction time. I am part of a small voting minority with rathter large implications. I have no problem voting democrat or republican. I also have no problem voting somebody out after 4 years.

Rush ALWAYS backs up what he says?

Obama's birth certificate? Obama's Thesis?

Was the news favorable? Probably. But not of any agenda but rather McCain became associated with bush (lots of negative publicity) and there really wasn't much to say about obama due to his inexperience.

Right. Rush is always factual.

Lumberg, your 3:13 post was well said, I remember when Bush was running for reelection I was confident that there was no way in hell that he could possibly get elected to a second term. Then I saw who the Democrats ran to oppose him and I said, "awwww, sh*t!

The Supremes who voted on that Iminent Domain case were the four liberals with the cross-over siding with them. It most certainly was a liberal decision. A bad one, too.

DADES,

The man said it....I saw the words leave his lips....I am sorry that you obviously hate Rush....but it is equally obvious that you don't listen to him on a regular basis because if you did you would know much more than you do....I was listening to him the day that he reported about the Obama thesis and your problem in understanding him is that you only listen to the mainstream, drive-by media....Rush set your side up in that matter....he didn't state that Obama's thesis was factual and, in fact, stated beforehand that he couldn't prove the stories authenticity....so he wasn't reporting it as though it were a real story....he just read what was on that website or blog....he prefaced the story with the statement that he had NOT verified the statements....he WAS NOT saying that they were true....only that someone was telling the story....and he knew that just by him talking about it would drive the media NUTS....and IT DID! He knew the media would report falsely on what he said about it....he knows them like a book....it was a "hey, watch this" moment.

Rush has NEVER gone after Obama's birth certificate....he has mentioned it but he knows as I do, it wouldn't matter even if they proved Obama was NOT a natural born citizen because the Democrats in Congress wouldn't throw him out of office....but since we are on the topic....can you tell me why your pick for president didn't have to release his school records or his birth certificate?....if my memory serves me.....wasn't it through the release of President Bush's school records (that he released) that the media found that DWI they beat him up with just before the 2000 election?....it points to Obama's feelings of superiority that he has spent almost a $1,000,000 in attorney fees to block the public from seeing his records....I mean we can't even get a drivers license without showing our birth certificate....this man promised transparency in his government and all we have gotten is shady "back room" deals....and a refusal to release his own revords...I can tell you one thing....that bogus imitation of a birth certificate he posted online wouldn't even pass to get a drivers license....Obama is nearly my age and I have a copy of my birth certificate....it seems I am required to show mine just every once in a while....and mimeographed copies (the method used for copying things back then) look nothing like the one he posted....if you are old enough to remember what mimeographed copies looked like then you know what I mean. The problem with the main stream media today is that they no longer print the truth....I have experienced both and I can promise you one thing....what Rush says today takes the drive-by media at least two more days to report....Rush is usually at least TWO FULL DAYS ahead of the rest of them....don't believe me?....try listening to him for a couple of weeks....jot down the stories he talks about and the date he talks about it and then just continue watching your favorite station or news outlet. Most of the stories Rush discusses make it to "prime time" it's just that they arrive 48 hours after you heard it from Rush....that is what convinced me that Rush IS the BEST news source....I mean why wait for news that is 48 hours old?....journalism from the main stream sources IS DEAD! That is why Rush is the phenomenon that he is. You can call him an entertainer if you like that's fine....I mean who says that news has to be boring....make NO mistake about it though....Rush Limbaugh has become America's Anchorman. Take my challenge if you doubt me....listen for two weeks and compare....enlightenment is a beautiful thing!

bobby62914,

I have....until FOX came along there was only one point of view on television....that is why I issued the challenge....it doesn't matter which of the liberal drive by media member you listen to....they are all on the same subject at the same time....proving that they all get their "talking point style" of news from the same place....that is why Rush always beats them to the real news....I listened to Rush for about a month before I notice that he was roughly 48 hrs ahead of the mainstream news cycle....don't believe me?....try it....I have tried the others and that is why I listen to Rush....me and about 25 million others.

mr69mopar,

Its obvious you can't be objective when discussing rush.

First off, why is he discussing the birth certificate. Its been authenticated. Does he have proof other wise? Nope.

Second, set up the media by reporting facts he could not verify? Sounds like responsible journalism too me. Didn't rush recently go on TV and cry about people falsely attributing comments to him?

For me, any such "reporting" should not be tolerated. For people like you, its ok if you are rush Limbaugh?

The Supremes who voted on that Iminent Domain case were the four liberals with the cross-over siding with them. It most certainly was a liberal decision. A bad one, too.

-- Posted by bobby62914 on Mon, Nov 2, 2009, at 7:28 PM

Oh I get it. Every time something happens you disagree with you consider it liberal.

Can you believe that liberal flat tire i had the other day?

Flat tires are generally not political. However, occasionally they can have local political implications, particularly if they are caused by a pothole. Lots of City Councilmen have been elected on the promise to fill potholes in their neighborhood.

DADES,

....I was listening to him the day that he reported about the Obama thesis and your problem in understanding him is that you only listen to the mainstream, drive-by media....Rush set your side up in that matter....he didn't state that Obama's thesis was factual and, in fact, stated beforehand that he couldn't prove the stories authenticity....so he wasn't reporting it as though it were a real story....he just read what was on that website or blog....he prefaced the story with the statement that he had NOT verified the statements....he WAS NOT saying that they were true....only that someone was telling the story....and he knew that just by him talking about it would drive the media NUTS....and IT DID! He knew the media would report falsely on what he said about it....he knows them like a book....it was a "hey, watch this" moment.

-- Posted by mr69mopar on Mon, Nov 2, 2009, at 7:45 PM

You are absolutely correct, he was just reporting what he saw somewhere and just put the information out there to let people draw there own conclusions. He didn't claim that the information was factual, he was just doing it for the ratings and to be the first to report it just in case there was any validity to it and there is nothing wrong with that.

On a side note, I don't know that any of this is factual. This is just something that I picked up on another website. Again, I'm not saying that I believe it but I believe that someone needs to at least investigate the validity of the claims. Some sites are reporting that Rush does all of his shows with a live gerbil up his butt. Again, I'm not saying that any of this is true or that I believe it. It may all be a hoax but there are reports that Limbaugh imbeds a subliminal message in his broadcasts that encourage all his listeners to enjoy his program with live gerbils up their butts! He does this because he owns stock in a designer gerbil company and is attempting to boost sales. Now I know that many of the die-hard Rush listening gerbil lovers are going to take umbrage with this report and misreport what I have said about it, but I am not reporting this as fact and I have not verified these claims any more that Rush verified the Obama thesis claims. I'm just putting the information out there to let people draw there own conclusions and be the first to report it just in case there is any truth to it.

Now, if as many people read my posts as listen to Rush, you might see a story about this 48 hours from now on the MSM either confirming or denying the story. However few people read my posts and as such it is unlikely to draw much national attention.

lumbrgfktr,

Your posts speak for themselves (and you)....I love it when people like yourself get diarrhea of the mouth because the more you state your case the more you make mine....Rush did set the media up on the Obama Thesis story and all who listened to him that day got a big laugh at people like yourself....as for what Rush did or didn't say there is a complete transcript of his comments from each and every show he does that is available to his subscribers....perhaps if you want to present yourself as the consummate Rush dissenter you should subscribe to his website so you can learn what the hell you are talking about....as for Obama's fake birth certificate that he had posted on his website....even the Hawaiian drivers license officials said that the birth certificate he had on his website couldn't be used to obtain an Hawaiian driver license....but then you know than than they do....that fake birth certificate only works as proof to the moveon.org types like yourself that use hate to establish in their mind whatever it is they want to be true....you think you know Rush Limbaugh....you DO NOT!....I dare you to take my challenge....listen to him for two weeks and write down the news stories he discusses and see how long the lapse is before the same stories hit the news medias you watch....personally I think you are too big of a chicken to try it....as I don't think you can handle "truth".... you've been too long schilling for the liberals.

-- Posted by mr69mopar on Tue, Nov 3, 2009, at 8:43 AM

I have been shilling for the liberals? That is funny, becasue in post I said the liberal anchortainers are full of crap as well.

But calling out limbaugh on his bogus comments and all of a sudden I am "shilling"

Actually, you have no case. Rush did not set up the media. He reported false information. Its as simple as that. If you consider that to be responsible, then you have to also admit that all the othe media that called him a racist is also correct. After all, the didn't say the quote, only repeated it.

I am simply calling Rush out on his double standard.

Most of the world is possession poor and time rich. The United States is possession rich and time poor. We just don't have the time to fully research out the things that impact our lives. We depend on other people to do it for us as a quick fix to keep us reasonably informed with very little effort on our part. Therefore, we listen to preachers and parents tell us what the Bible says and just repeat what they say as gospel facts that we know very well without ever having read very much of the Bible to form our own opinion. Televangelists exploit that to rake in money. We do it as well with sports. We speak as sports experts on players and teams by repeating what we've heard somebody else say on ESPN or talk radio when we would have no significant opinion otherwise. We do the same with politics. We listen to the "talking heads" like Rush and all the other media outlets and repeat what they say to our friends and associates as though we have researched it ourselves and "are in the know". If challenged, we would not be able to back up our opinion with educated facts. It is very difficult for all of us not to fall into this trap given the nature of our society. We are all in this web more so than we realize. By their political opinions, you can tell more what network a person watches on TV than you can their political integrity. We need to "educate ourselves" and not "completely" depend on the talking heads. Watch all the networks and compare. Read the Wall St Journal and Washington Post and Time, etc. Research history. Be smart enough to effectively critique what you hear the talking heads say and what you actually see the politicians "do". In church, sports, media, politics......there is a lot of posturing and posing that seldom contains the absolute truth. If we just repeat what they say and put no effort of our own into it to know the facts.....we are just their puppets that network their influence across our environment. It's a nationwide epidemic that we as a people no longer think for ourselves and it's evident in the fact that we didn't keep the government honest to their task.

We just blindly believed what they said through the media and our favorite talking head entertainers and the country is paying the price.

DADES,

Don't you get it....it wasn't Rush's comments....he read what someone else wrote....REALLY it's not rocket science do try to keep up!

I believe most people actually did hear it....and did not "think" about it because they have been gradually trained to obey the leash of the media outlet they listen to and think only what the media says. The media did not chastise it. Therefore, the public ignored it as well. The media even stages arguments on shows so that we may emulate them with the same type of "going nowhere" arguments that accomplishes nothing. You see amongst ourselves. You see it on these posts.

lumbrgfktr,

I had recently heard a rumor that there was an ACTUAL court date for Obama's alleged Kenyan Birth Certificate to be presented to a judge in an actual courtroom where the "merits of the dispute" will be argued....until now every judge has basically dismissed the case due to an alleged "lack of standing" to bring suit and have NOT heard the merits of the case....I don't know where Obama was born nor do I pretend to know....logic tells me that NOBODY spends a million dollars ($1,000,000.00) to stop people from seeing his "birth certificate"....unless he has something to hide....I found this link for you:

http://tarheelpundit.com/2009/09/09/whoa...

Since you have stated that you are a "patriot" and that you love America....what would you suggest be done to a man who knowingly subverted, through lies and deception, the United States Constitutional requirement that only "natural born" citizens may be elected President of the United States....his VERY act of running for President a blatant display of contempt for the Constitution....the same Constitution that he claims is "an old, outdated document that stands in the way of progress"....and keep in mind that he would have violated at least three oaths along the way (sworn as an attorney, as a Senator and as President) to defend that document....he is an attorney so ignorance of the law is NO EXCUSE for him....finally I am forced to ask the question: Why would anyone do such a thing?....so he could attempt to destroy the America that he has so much contempt for and change it into an America HE wants?....lumbrgfktr, please tell me what you would recommend be done to Obama if all of the "birther" claims wind up being true?

-- Posted by mr69mopar on Tue, Nov 3, 2009, at 11:36 AM

Spends millions of dollars to hide it? A cell phone call to Hawaii is free.

Frankly, I hate frivilous law suits. This would probably be one of those cases. However, Obama is found guilty of forgery, he should be immediatly impeached and would probably face some jail time as well. I have no problem with that.

However, if it is decided there is nothing to this case, would you finally agree that he was born in the USA?

Mopar -

Forgive me. Perhaps if you could type just a little slower I might be better able to keep up. I understand that it "wasn't Rush's comment" but quite a few of the things he says could be attributed to other people. People such as his staff, writers, researchers, his kids, sponsors, and lets not forget the Republican Party.

You seem to be a loyal follower of Rush. Am I correct in understanding that it's your opinion that Limbaugh can report anything he wants to as long as he prefaces it by uttering, "I don't know if this is true or not but I found this on the internet . . ."

DADES,

Rush wasn't reporting the thesis as a "news story"....he said that he found it on the Internet and read what someone else had written....he said that he was going to have his staff look into it but he said that just because he spoke about it on the air the media would go nuts....and they did!

Obama's comment about the "US Constitution being an old, outdated document that stands in the way of progress" is a MUCH bigger story than IF the Thesis story had been verifiable and true....the man verbally dissed, with prejudice, the US Constitution....you "Rush Haters" can go ahead and hate him....but hatred has blinded many from the truth....your image of the man is false....something that you would see if you could get past your prejudices.

DADES,

Rush wasn't reporting the thesis as a "news story"....he said that he found it on the Internet and read what someone else had written....he said that he was going to have his staff look into it but he said that just because he spoke about it on the air the media would go nuts....and they did!

Obama's comment about the "US Constitution being an old, outdated document that stands in the way of progress" is a MUCH bigger story than IF the Thesis story had been verifiable and true....the man verbally dissed, with prejudice, the US Constitution....you "Rush Haters" can go ahead and hate him....but hatred has blinded many from the truth....your image of the man is false....something that you would see if you could get past your prejudices.

-- Posted by mr69mopar on Tue, Nov 3, 2009, at 2:19 PM

Actually, you are the only one who is blind. In fact, your double standard is so obvious that I am actually embarrased for you.

Seriously, just ask the simple question. Were other news networks correct in calling him a racist?

Give it a rest. Although your subject matter is important, the arguments being brought forth are trivial. You're losing the integrity of your debate by centering on a "he said, she said" type of venacular. Which just happens to be the same type of arguments we see everyday on all of the media outlets that makes you wonder why you are watching and listening to such chaos that's supposed to contain substance. See how well they train us to go in circles so we forget to actually look into what's really happening while we argue about who said what....as though that's the real issue. In taking a "back in the day" approach, it was somewhat of a local pasttime in Cape County 40+ years ago and beyond to catch politicians in their double talk. As a child, I remember sitting amongst adults at social gatherings listening to them take pride in keeping politicians honest. However, there were no "talking heads" in those days. People read the papers, compared articles, and kept track of what was said. They called the politicians' offices to demand their stand on a subject. Friends worked together to find out what was going on. Rush is just generating the same conversations that used to take place in a local tavern or a church social gathering. What he does is good for generating attention on what needs to be looked into. What's bad is that we rely too much on him to do what we could do for ourselves. If the American public went back to that, talking heads like Rush would not be needed or at least not as popular.

SEMO56,

I am reminded of a famous quote from the English philosopher Edmund Burke: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

I hate to admit it but I have been that good man who has sat back and done nothing....I have watched the lies and deceit of the liberals for too long and been silent.

I went to a Tea Party over the Summer and it has changed me....it changed the way I see things and from that day forward I will not sit back and overlook what the liberals are doing to America....I am going to speak out against evil wherever I find it....evil must be confronted and defeated....if a man is not ready to do this small amount then he deserves all that comes to him from his lack of action.

lumbrgfktr,

Then just because YOU say he has shown it....DOES NOT mean that he has....it is common knowledge that he has only shown the "certificate of live birth" that he had posted on his website and that is NOT the same kind of "birth certificate" that every other presidential candidate has had to put forth....why do you think that Obama is SO MUCH better than everyone who has come before him? It is a known fact that he IS HIDING it....that is not even in question....the ONLY question is WHY? Would you spend a mollion dollars to keep the public from seeing your birth certificate? It doesn't even matter because like I said before the Democrats in Congress wouldn't act to do anything about it even if they knew he was not a "natural born" citizen because most of the Democrats in Congress share Obama's view of the Constitution anyway....they don't respect it any more than he does....evidently any more than you do. I am a big fan of the "truth" and eventually it will come out....it always does! That is why I listen to Rush....he believes in the truth too....that is why he has over 20 million listeners weekly. Truth....it's a powerful thing!

mr69mopar,

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/bir...

Do you try to come on here and embarrass yourself?

I guess you are also a mind reader. how do you know that people don't respect the constitution?

The truth...just like Obama's thesis?

Then take it up with Hawaii, not me.

mr69mopar,

And you might be right with that. And Obama deserves criticsm no doubt.

And its not behind closed doors. its the committe process.

I agree he looked foolish with the police officer situation.

Pretty much what you just said has its valid points.

buckerup,

If this is a SERIOUS QUESTION then you need serious help! If today's attack on Ft. Hood is what I fear it is, America will wish President Bush could come back!

Bush made a lot of mistakes (not nearly as many as the media claims and almost every one of them was political) but he understood the nature of the enemy we face and he confronted them....HE UNDERSTOOD that we were at war....his replacement understands none of that and is actually sympathetic to that enemy. He gave Hamas a billion dollars? The same Hamas, who's only mission is, to destroy (as in wipe off of the map) Israel....that, publically stated, goal was why they were founded! Think about that! Are those the kind of people you want to give tax payer money to?

We all remember what a JOKE Jimmy Carter was as president....he let Iran make a laughing stock out of America and when he was FORCED to act, by public outrage, and attempted a rescue he tried to do it with broken down equipment that was a direct result of the military budget that he slashed....and let us NOT forget how he harmed the grain farmers with his idiotic "grain embargo"....it ended most of the farming in Southern Illinois....before that embargo you could drive 146 all the way over to Golconda, IL and every field was planted....drive it and look now....it has never recovered....Carter destroyed the Southern Illinois farmers.

Like it or not, the world is a dangerous place and WEAK leaders like Carter and Obama that think every conflict can be negotiated to a peaceful solution put our country at GREAT risk....just wait until the terrorists start shooting up the shopping malls (don't forget that has already happened once...it didn't make the state run news but it happened) or take schools and the children hostage like they did in Russia....killing I don't remember how many little children!

It is a CRYING SHAME that such tragedies most take place to convince people that force is sometimes the ONLY answer....Hitler was NOT defeated by negotiations or sanctions....it took BRUTE force. Islamic/Muslim terrorists want all "infidels" DEAD....definition of an infidel: Any non-Islamic person! So you can either convert to Islam and sometimes be spared (they have NO problem with killing their own!) or you can fight back and kill them all....I know what I will do....how about yourself?

Carter was THE WORST president in American history to that point....we will see how long he hold that title.

Mr69,

G.W. Bush is unequivocally the worst president on record. He's done more to harm to our country than all the rest put together. Bush and Cheny should have both be arrested for treason before the left office and given consecutive life sentences for every soldier killed in Iraq. And that's just for starters...

Re your Ft. Hood comment: Sir, you are one sick, delusional puppy.

If the cowardly Maj. Hasan did indeed crack under pressure after having been deployed to Iraq (a country we now occupy due to Bush and Cheny's apocalyptic duping of America and Her people) you can go ahead and chalk-up ANOTHER ONE to your beloved Bush-Cheny regime...

Buck

Mr69,

You're just plain silly and utterly full of right-wing babble. LMAO

I have a little time, so I'll try to help you out.

#1) The vast majority of Muslims are as peace-loving as the vast majority of Christians. And like it or not, there are millions of peace-loving, law abiding AMERICAN Muslims living among us. The extremist Muslims (not unlike the extremist Christians) are the ones we have to kill before they kill us.

&

#2) If not for the George W. Bush and Dick Cheny's unscrupulous, unprincipled, right-wing tactics, Barak HUSSEIN Obama (an alleged muslim with a forged American birth certificate) would never have stood a chance to be elected to office of President of these United States of America in the first place.

See? I don't hate George W. I just gave him credit for ushering in the era of President Barak HUSSEIN Obama!

Buck

lumbrgfktr,

I am glad we can agree on something....the media said the other night (I don't remember which channel) that the health care negotiations were being done behind closed doors....and please correct me, if I am wrong, but I don't think there is even one Republican on that committee.

It is a far cry from the transparency and reaching out,working with, and unifying the political process that we were promised.

I have enjoyed our debate and want to apologize for my sarcasm ,at times....it is just that I am VERY passionate about what I see being done to my country....I have five grandchildren and one more on the way and I want them all to enjoy the same freedoms as I did growing up....I want them to grow up in the same America I did....America may not be perfect but it is the BEST place on earth....and I DON"T want it changed!

I realize that you dislike Rush Limbaugh, something that I think you would overcome if you listened to him for a while....but you ARE entitled, by the US Constitution, to have your point of view....I fully support your right to passionately dislike whoever, including Rush....for me though Limbaugh and Hannity and Beck are the ones trying to put the brakes on this upcoming train wreck that Obama has engineered. I see them as our best hope to curtail America's demise....you may not think that way but perhaps some day you will....America needs all of her native sons in her time of peril.

-- Posted by mr69mopar on Thu, Nov 5, 2009, at 5:13 PM

No need to apologize. Its a forum, so express away.

And I don't dislike Rush Limbaugh. I even listen to him sometimes. I just understand that what he says is full of half truths.

My whole point in all this is that right now its still a bit too early to be too critical of the administration. But there are some concerning trends that need to be addressed. And he has earned some legit criticism. However all that gets ignored when people revert to the same old lame and petty jabs.

I agree that it is early in the administration but the things he has already done point to his true intentions....he appointed all the Czars instead of regular cabinet members to get around the Constitution....we know how he feels about the Constitution because he openly told us....by making Czar appointments they answer to NO ONE except the him....that way he doesn't have to have anyone vetted by Congress....just look at the ones he has appointed as Czar....some of the MOST radical people from the far, far left....one had to step down because of his Communist beliefs, he has an Education Czar that in his years as a school teacher counseled, an underage teenage boy who disclosed have an affair with a 40 year old man, to in his words; "Make sure you use a condom."....he has a Pay Czar that is now putting caps on how much executives can make....you might say that so far it is just those who took bailout money and I think so far that is true but I heard the man say a couple of weeks ago that he was going to be looking at ALL executive pay....meaning he is planning on capping compensation for executives of companies that DIDN'T take bailout money....he took GM stock and just redistributed it with NO regard for the stock holders and gave it to the UAW leaders....NEVER has ANY President, in my life time, stepped so far over the line....he has NO AUTHORITY to do these things....and yet where is the media criticism? I have written so much to so many....I honestly don't remember if you are a Bush basher or not but....but what would the media have done to President Bush had he done these same things? They probably would have forced him to resign or impeached him....I don't understand why so many people are just FINE with Obama not following the same rules every other presidential candidate and President have had to follow....why is he SO special?

puckerup,

Since when did refuting lies with facts become an evil right-wing tactic? I'm sure it is VERY disappointing for you to have someone dissect your babble and challenge you talking points.....it's you liberals who always make emotional arguments, just like you have done again in this posting, that are devoid of logic and reasoning....misleading and lying and telling half truths.....but that is your way......it is the LIBERAL'S WAY....and you have just exhibited the most famous liberal tactic of all by accusing others of the VERY thing you are doing....nice try but I am wise to your deceit.

You give ME words of enlightenment?....you only wish you could!

1.)It is true that we took land that the Indians inhabited....no argument there but my question to you is EXACTLY what does that have to do with OUR discussion?....ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.....another liberal trick....beat down the opposition with a guilt trip....who alive today had ANYTHING to do with that? You are attempting to guilt trip the readers into believing America is a TERRIBLE place....your point is non-sense because you can't name anyplace on earth or any people who haven't done BAD things....if you don't love America and don't want to partake of its bounty then I fully support your right to leave! Go live somewhere else more to your liking say Communists China perhaps....I hear things are REALLY fair there. You completely misinform when you accuse Christians of enslaving the black people of Africa.....your history is quite incomplete...it was black people who sold other black people (usually neighboring tribe members) to the white man....Slavery was terribly wrong but it was the Dred Scott decision that basically decided in favor of slavery and can you guess the political leanings of the justices that rendered that decision?...I'll give you a hint.....IT WASN"T REPUBLICANS!!!.....another little history lesson for you: the Republican Party was launched to bring an end to slavery....the man, you may have heard of him, you may not....they don't teach about him much in school these days.....who wrote that paper called the Emancipation Proclamation.....Abraham Lincoln.....the 16th United States President.....he was a REPUBLICAN!....then on to the Civil Rights Act....it was Al Gore's father along with many fellow Democrats that voted against anti-lynching laws and the right to vote for blacks....in fact, it was them EVIL Republicans voting for the Civil Rights Act that allowed it to pass.....historical fact!....it took the Republican vote to pass the Civil Right Act the Democrats were on the wrong side of that issue....but have you ever heard the state run media report that fact?

It does NOT surprise me that your family were Klansmen.....you may have broken away from them in spirit but you took with you a perverted view of life.....you are scarred by what your family was and how they believed....you view everything and make your judgments.....even right and wrong through a lens of hate....this is wrong so I hate it....that is right so I love it.....for a liberal....you sure aren't very open-minded!...but another news flash for you.....open-minded thought and the Democratic Party split company long ago!

I'll humor you: YES you are RIGHT Bush lied and people DIED....and America didn't REALLY lose three thousand innocent citizens on 9/11....Bush lied about all that too....besides like some of YOUR ILK have said....WE DESERVED TO BE ATTACKED.....we just got what was coming to us....RIGHT?

I will agree with your one point though; the needless loss of American lives is unforgivable and that is why I applaud President Bush for keeping America safe after the cowardly attacks of the Muslim extremists on 9/11.

America was NOT hit again after he made the hard decision to go to war....you can fight these people across the globe or you can fight them here on our streets, in our schools, our shopping malls, churches, sports stadiums.....wherever a well placed bomb or gunman could kill a lot of people with one strike....now we see even Ft Hood is not immune from extreme Muslim insanity. Bush knew this was true!

Strength.....GW had more strength in his little finger than exists in the whole Democrat Party. He had the personal strength to do what was right.....nobody on your side can make that claim.

You on the left envy Bush's strength and I think it is partly why you hate him so much....the new guy, your guy couldn't lift GW's jock strap!!....and we'll see how long it is before the Muslims are attacking us here again....but know this....when they do.....the blood will be on the hands of the Democrat Party and you "Bush NUTS."

lumbrgfktr,

I forgot to address the Patriot Act....I will concede that I don't like the idea of it....but they have caught several terrorists using it....have there been abuses? I haven't heard of any personally but I would say there have most likely been abuses....no one should trust the government completely....it is certainly an intrusion, but I don't ever feel it....and it doesn't cost me anything since I'm not a terrorist...but think about this....isn't it about the same, in principle at least, where police officers look inside your car a see you not wearing a seatbelt and then give you a citation for not wearing your seatbelt?....in fact, I think that is a MUCH GREATER intrusion into our privacy....the car is supposed to be an extension of your home....and now you have police officers driving around acting like a "peeping tom"....it just amounts to another tax....I have not heard of anyone being arrested for anything other than "terrorism" from Patriot Act....have you?

buckerup,

You are the one talking about what a TERRIBLE place America is....NOT ME and AGAIN, you speak in platitudes and generalities NEVER discussing specific examples....it's easier to defend your BS that way....I on the other hand have responded specifically to the charges you cite....You are in complete DENIAL when it comes to which side of this debate is upholding the Constitution....your guy, Obama subverts it daily....in fact, he started before they swore him in....if you are too blind to see that then don't blame me....I have no problem with changes as long as those changes are within the confines of the Constitution....I just don't want a "traitor"....or someone who HATES America, like your guy, to move in and take America over from within....the founding fathers understood that threat and is the reason for the "natural born" requirement in the Constitution....something your side cares nothing about!!....You guys would run Fidel Castro if you thought he could beat the Republicans....and if you intend to take this argument down the road of who it is that respects the Constitution more, your side or mine....I welcome that challenge because while you only have the platitudes....I have the facts....facts trump vague insinuations every time. People on your side think Reganism is dead...Ha-Ha-HA-this is me laughing at you!....just wait until next time around....if Obama does what I think he will do.....think Jimmy Carter on steroids....we will win a 50 state landslide next election...beating the old record of a 49 state sweep set by Ronald Reagan.

lumbrgfktr,

Where am I wrong? What did I say that isn't factual? When telling the truth becomes and insult then perhaps it's time for more "insults"....have you looked the people he has appointed Czars?....it is why he did that....cabinet appointments are supposed to be approved by the Congress according to the Constitution!....he didn't want these people seen that is why he appointed them and subverted the proper procedure....you would not believe what some of these Czars have done and said in the past....if that reality insults you....perhaps you need to take step back and have another look at it....if he gets health care passed America will look a lot more like Nazi Germany than the America I grew up in....just imagine the government telling you what kind of health care you must have or they will fine you....what if you refuse to pay the fine?....then off to prison we go!....you call that freedom? You should read the bill! That is if they post it online before they pass it. If you can show me exactly where I am wrong I will apologize.

-- Posted by mr69mopar on Fri, Nov 6, 2009, at 12:48 PM

What isn't factual? How do you presume to know what a person's intentions, beliefs or feelings are?

And again, you have a problem with his cabinet, then just says so and why. But no, you go on to call them Czars. He is the president and he picks his cabinet. Its nothing new, so why freak out with the Czar comments. It gives the perception you don't understand the issue and have to regurgitate talk radio speak because you can't complain in a rational tone. I agree there needs to be better cooperation, but I can discuss it logically with out dumbing it down to that kind of level.

And again, you go off with another stupid comment. Seriously, national health care is the same as a dictatorship, stripping of religious and political rights, exterminating 7 million people and dragging us into world War II. Again, when people have to draw such erroneous comparisons, it just means you have nothing valid to say.

Frankly I do buy the whole, "someone telling you what kind of care you will get" because newsflash, that already happens with insurance companies.

Like I said, you raise some valid concerns. You loose credibility in your explanation.

buckerup,

You are a NUT! Major Husan is a Muslim! He didn't "crack under pressure"....it was a planned attack on the enemy....he just killed 12 more "infidels" and is now on his way to the 72 virgins....that Allah promised him....why don't you wake up!

Your lack of logic driven by your hatred is truly scary....what about all the innocent people the Muslims killed in the World Trade Center and the Pentagon attack and in that field in Pennsylvania? You just forget about them?....where is your concern for them sir?

Why can't you see that we are at war....these maniacs enjoy killing little children,....if they killed "your child" would that wake you up?....or would you just blame Bush? You are SO PATHETIC!

Soldiers fight and die for their country and it is people like you that DISHONOR their sacrifice. You seem to like the terrorist so much....why don't you go join them?....I wish you would!

People like you want to forget 9/11 ever happened....or deny it altogether....don't tell me you think America did something to provoke 9/11....right?....or Bush authorized the 9/11 attack....I've heard it all from you NUTS....I call your kind...."Bush NUTS"

I have NEVER seen such IRRATIONAL oratory as will dribble out of the mouth of a "Bush NUT"....I bet you think Bush caused Katrina to hit New Orleans so he could KILL a bunch of black people....right? INSANE, you are just INSANE!

Your HATRED for Bush has robbed you of your senses. Bush WINS and you LOSE!

If you need air fare to Damascus so you can join your comrades just let me know....I'll pitch in for a one-way ticket for you!

-- Posted by mr69mopar on Thu, Nov 5, 2009, at 9:18 PM

You can't just group all Muslims because the actions of a few fanatics.

Are we also at war with Christians because of the Christian attack on Oklahoma City?

And to clarify things. Busch caused Hurricane Katrina to give the cowboys a better shot at the Super Bowl by displacing the Saints.

lumbrgfktr,

I forgot to address the Patriot Act....I will concede that I don't like the idea of it....but they have caught several terrorists using it....have there been abuses? I haven't heard of any personally but I would say there have most likely been abuses....no one should trust the government completely....it is certainly an intrusion, but I don't ever feel it....and it doesn't cost me anything since I'm not a terrorist...but think about this....isn't it about the same, in principle at least, where police officers look inside your car a see you not wearing a seatbelt and then give you a citation for not wearing your seatbelt?....in fact, I think that is a MUCH GREATER intrusion into our privacy....the car is supposed to be an extension of your home....and now you have police officers driving around acting like a "peeping tom"....it just amounts to another tax....I have not heard of anyone being arrested for anything other than "terrorism" from Patriot Act....have you?

-- Posted by mr69mopar on Fri, Nov 6, 2009, at 1:07 PM

The Patriot Act was an overreaction and is so vaguely worded that it can be applied for other uses than just terrorism. So you don't have to be a terrorist to affect you. And you can't compare a seat belt citation to the patriot act.

Not sure why you think looking in your car is a bigger issue than police recording phone conversations of you and your girlfriend. After all, they no longer need a warrant.

There have been a number of abuses and false arrests. Just Google it. Its pretty spooky.

lumbrgfktr,

I didn't see your post from 4:24 I think we are about to NOT be friends again....how do you pretend to blame Christians for the Oklahoma City bombing? I never said we had to round up all the Muslims and put them up against the wall....if you haven't lived around Muslims then you need to go do so before you form any lasting opinions....Muslims are not civilized in the same way most people here use that word....not to speak bad of the Muslims in general it is just a culture shock issue....they don't understand the killing of an unborn baby (abortion) and view Americans as uncivilzed....where most Americans think of our dogs and pets as having a certain importance they view animals as "animals" and have no emotional attachment to them....it really is the GREATEST of ironies that if the Extremist Muslims prevail they will kill all the Liberals first because everything that the modern Liberal supports (gays, abortion, womens rights, taxation, religious freedom, animal rights....etc, etc) is what Muslims hate about America....they would literally kill off the liberals and the Jews and then force Islam on the rest of us. IRONIC hardly says it....I have worked with and lived among Muslims and they are a different people....not inherently bad but so very much different than Americans....another thing about them is even the ones who profess peace won't condemn the violence of the extremists....in part because they don't want to get their throats cut while they sleep and in part because violence is supported by the quran for dealing with infidels....it is just the facts....I shared living quarters with a man named Azeem....he had a camel saddle hanging on the wall and three wives back home....in Afghanistan....he came her for an education at the same time Russia was invading his country....his parents were wealthy and wanted to get him away from the dangers of the war....Azeem was given a wife on two consecutive birthdays (13th and 14th)and after college he decided to stay in America....the stigma attached to killing people is NOT present in their culture like it is here....they are very different from us....they believe in honor killings and it wasn't just a few weeks ago that some Muslim man living here in Arizona I think intentionally ran over and killed his daughter because she was TOO American....in his home country nothing would be done to him for it....think about that! This man was not what most would call an extremist....I guess the best way to say it is; the average Muslim would seem VERY extreme to the average American. Just for the record....the Oklahoma City bombing was in retaliation for the Waco incident....I lived down there (Waco) when that happened and David Koresh jogged every day outside of that compound and it was common knowledge that he did so....talk about a serious OVER-REACHING! Clinton and Reno killed a bunch of innocent people in that raid....and if the goal was to capture Koresh as they stated then it was a BLUNDER! They could have arrested him any day jogging outside the compound.

Dades,

I'm glad I made you smile... :)

Mr69,

You are a modern-day Don Quixote, dressed in full armor (with thick helmet), lance in hand, charging after that Lefty Dragon Windmill on your mighty steed!

If one day your should happen to regain your sanity, I hope you do not become a broken man for your outright folly.

Buck

puckerup,

I want to respond to your post of Fri, Nov 6, 2009, at 4:17 PM....you challenged me to prove where you said that "America is a TERRIBLE place"....I copy and paste your words from your post of: Fri, Nov 6, 2009, at 10:38 AM when you said:

Ever wonder what in God's name happened to the Native Americans..? Anyway. Christians also imported and enslaved a dark skin people from Africa (claimed they were 3/4 human) and forced them into slavery for four hundred years in a land these Christians deemed "free..?" Hm. And after the Emancipation Proclamation freed the dark skin people (on paper) Christians continued to lynched them (for not staying in "their place") without fear of legal recourse, up until the 1960s. Couldn't get an anti-lynching law passed until the it was finally subsumed by the Civil Rights Act.

-------------------------------------------------

This is where your TOTAL lack of INTELLECTUAL HONESTY, that I have spoken of so many times, is on FULL DISPLAY....you have to be talking about America....right? You state that Christians enslaved the "black people" and held them slaves in America for four hundred years...right?...then lynched the slaves after the Emancipation Proclamation set them free (on paper)....right?

SO PUCKERUP, if you didn't, using your own words, just describe a TERRIBLE place....what am I missing? The truth, something you avoid dealing with, is that while there is some truth to what you say.....there is a lot of it half-truth in your comments....I explained it in GREAT detail in my original response on:

Fri, Nov 6, 2009, at 12:33 PM

When I said:

You completely misinform when you accuse Christians of enslaving the black people of Africa.....your history is quite incomplete...it was black people who sold other black people (usually neighboring tribe members) to the white man....Slavery was terribly wrong but it was the Dred Scott decision that basically decided in favor of slavery and can you guess the political leanings of the justices that rendered that decision?...I'll give you a hint.....IT WASN"T REPUBLICANS!!!.....another little history lesson for you: the Republican Party was launched to bring an end to slavery....the man, you may have heard of him, you may not....they don't teach about him much in school these days.....who wrote that paper called the Emancipation Proclamation.....Abraham Lincoln.....the 16th United States President.....he was a REPUBLICAN!....then on to the Civil Rights Act....it was Al Gore's father along with many fellow Democrats that voted against anti-lynching laws and the right to vote for blacks....in fact, it was them EVIL Republicans voting for the Civil Rights Act that allowed it to pass.....historical fact!....it took the Republican vote to pass the Civil Rights Act and the Democrats were on the wrong side of that issue.

-------------------------------------------------

You said America was a TERRIBLE place....I called you on it....you lied and said that you didn't say it....then you challenged me to prove you said it....I JUST DID! Don Quixote strikes ANOTHER blow as he defends the helpless and defeats the wicked!

Pretty amazing stuff I am reading here. We have people worrying about how much money Rush Limbaugh makes. If he makes more, do you somehow make less? No, he can't steal from you. But this out of control government sure can....and will. My suggestion would be to pay more attention to what the government is spending than what Rush is making. It also seems a little odd that nobody seems to care what some others bring in. Is friend of Castro and Chavez, Sean Penn, worth 20 million per film? How about U2? Do they make too much? How about Keith Olbermann knocking down 6 or 7 mil a year? What about Oprah? No, you drones don't seem too concerned about that. Could it be because they are a bunch of libs? And how does anybody know what Rush gives to charity. He may give plenty and keeps it to himself because he doesn't need a pat on the back for it. I can tell you who gives very little to charity. That would be Obama/Biden. Biden averages $369 per year, and from 2000-2004 the Obamas gave about 1% of their income. When he became more of a public figure, he started giving more to make himself look good. You know, buying votes, which he is quite accomplished at. In closing, why don't you libs stop commenting about Limbaugh's income. You sound so very jealous about it.

Well unless your girlfriend lives overseas in a country known to harbor terrorists it is my understanding that they can't moniter the call. Like I said though.....I don't trust the government either....but again the fact that police can write citations from looking inside your car that is NO different than listening to phone conversations. If you do away with one then do away with both....well, now it appears that the Ft. Hood shooter is in deed an Islamic extremist....I fear what lies ahead of us.

-- Posted by mr69mopar on Fri, Nov 6, 2009, at 5:30 PM

Actually, they can moniter your call and do. Its been listed as part of the abuses. Some have personal calls not related to terrorism have even ended up on the internet.

-- Posted by mr69mopar on Fri, Nov 6, 2009, at 7:07 PM

If obama picks were Czars, then what the heck do you consider making Ashcroft attourney general?

lumbrgfktr,

You miss the point altogether....his Czar picks are not cabinet members....they don't get looked at and voted up or down by Congress as per the Constitution....this man has already told us what he thinks of the US Constitution....and before you say that he can't bring us down in just one (1) term....you better look hard at the health care bill and a thing called H.R 45....read them both (read the house version of health care)and go find H.R. 45 read that and get back to me!

lumbrgfktr,

I just googled The Patriot Act and found a lot of links supposedly supporting your claims...however when you look at the links it is to places like "The San Fransisco Chronicle" and "CBS News" and "The Civil Liberties Union"....all of them devout left-wing Bush haters....C'mon CBS News even put forth a story they knew was a lie just to try and help Kerry beat Bush back before the 2004 election....Dan Rather got canned over it....DON'T you remember that....these claims started just before the 2004 election....and as far as the ACLU goes....PLEASE!....that group of far left-wing nuts was started by a self-proclaimed Communist....don't you think that if the ACLU had ANY proof of what you say.....they wouldn't have brought formal charges against the Bush Administration???

You might try expanding your source of information....try this link and read what it says there about your charge:

http://www.heritage.org/press/commentary...

At least it will provide you with a differing point of view.

lumbrgfktr,

I'm not saying MINE are the only sources but, if you took the time to read the article at the link, you would have seen they took the time to examine and report both sides of the issue.

You have espoused so much non-sense in your hysterical, unfounded hatred of the various members of the Bush Administration that you are blinded to what some on your side of the political aisle have said about the Patriot Act:

Janet Reno told the 9/11 commission, "Generally everything that's been done in the Patriot Act has been helpful, I think, while at the same time maintaining the balance with respect to civil liberties."

Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein of California said: "I have never had a single abuse of the Patriot Act reported to me. My staff asked [the ACLU] for instances of actual abuses. They said they had none."

Like I said above if the ACLU (American Communist Lawyers Union) had anything to go on....they would have been ALL OVER Bush. I can promise you that!

You are preaching to the choir on the abrogation of rights....I don't understand you though when you say it is OK for the police to peek into your car windows (an extension of your home) and see that you aren't wearing your seat belt and then fine you for the violation....and that doesn't bother you....but when they listen to phone calls and determine someone is plotting a terrorist act so they can stop it....THEN you are offended because your right was violated....YOUR RIGHTS were violated when the cop peeked into your car just the same as when they listened to your calls....the difference is they TAXED you on the seat belt violation!

The Ft. Hood shooter was being monitored for his anti-America and pro-Islam views and conversations that he was having with the Al-Queida....nobody stopped him because the Intelligence Community didn't bother to notify the Pentagon they had a Muslim Terrorist traitor in their midst...Bush tore down that communication wall and I am wondering if Obama put it back in place after taking office....the Clinton Administration is the one who put that wall of secrecy in place to begin with back in the 1990's....there needs to be a FULL SCALE investigation into WHY this man wasn't dealt with before he shot the place up....this idea of political correctness has got to stop with regard to Muslim Terrorists....these people target and KILL little children....they have been killing Israeli children for almost 50 years....they took a grade school hostage and then killed the school children in Beslin, Russia....they chopped the heads off of 13 year old Christian school girls in Indonesia....WE as a nation MUST WAKE UP! WE ARE AT WAR!!!....Obama needs to decide which side HE is on. He can't even call the OBVIOUSLY terrorist act at Ft. Hood, TX....a terrorist act. That is why I CAN'T call him president.

puckerup,

That is the MOST idiotic reply that I have ever read!....it misses the mark completely and addresses none of the issues of my post....it is you and your kind that have their heads in the sand with regard to Muslim Terrorists...."chicken little"....you're just too afraid to admit that Bush was right about terrorists?....at any rate, your effort couldn't be any more pathetic....I just wish you would write more....PLEASE DO!....EVERYONE needs to read what you have to say....you and your posting are a shining example of why EVERYONE should take their children out of the public school system immediately!

puckerup,

I found an extra five minutes so I am going to respond to your last response....educating the ignorant is a dirty job but someone has to do it....according to the FBI statistics there was actually 16,272 murders in America in 2008.....SO WHAT? That number was down 3.9 percent (approximately 635) from 2007....but I again SO WHAT? There was an estimated 5.4 murders per 100,000 inhabitants in 2008 which is about five times the "murder rate" that existed back in the "old west"! *Hint....it is a safer place when EVERYONE carries a gun!

Then when you factor in that 89.4 percent (approximately 14,548) of the murders in 2008 happened in the Metropolitan Statistical areas (those would be the Blue areas on election night!....and Democrat controlled!!!) and also that the remaining 1724 murders for 2008 were committed in ALL that Red, fly over country....well it becomes painfully obvious that the Democrats and the Muslim Terrorists seem to have a lot in common.....and they sound exactly the same (something I have previously stated)....they are both CULTURES of DEATH!....Democrats worship Abortion and the Muslim worships Jihad....I dare you to blindfold yourself and listen to a Terrorist talk and a Democrat talk about President Bush....I dare you!!!....they say exactly the same things!.

puckerup, just one last thing....before you start lecturing the rest of us on how it is the Christian/Conservatives who are so "blood thirsty".....I would appreciate you washing the blood from your own hands first?

I don't understand how people like yourself could allow some public educator to brainwash you into hating America....you must have NO SPINE!....a mindless droid that pukes up the Democrat Party talking points on demand....my advice to you puckerup is to grow a spine and stand with us as we face the Muslim Terrorists that aren't just "coming" as you state while mocking me....THEY ARE ALREADY HERE!

Mr69,

I offer you one word: PERSPECTIVE.

a) Since we lost apprx 3600 Americans in the 9-11 attacks.

b) we've lost apprx 120,000 to American on American homicides,

c) and apprx 352,000 American lives due to the lack of health insurance...

Question: In descending order (high to low) which of these item constitute the biggest threat to American life and livelihood..?

Take your time, and don't cheat, Chick'n Quitote.

Buck

Mr69,

"How many did God kill" you ask?

Well, Senor Chick'n Quixote -- I must say, personally I have never witnessed God killing anyone. And furthermore, I challenge YOU (OR ANYONE ELSE) to prove God has ever killed any person or anything... EVER. (A simple photo of God caught in the act, or even the testimony a non-schizophrenic eye-witness will do...)

Buck

Mr69,

No. I believe in a Higher Power. However, I try to avoid using the word "God" because the word been so stigmatized by the likes of Osama Bin Laden, G.W. Bush and Jim Jones, to name a minuscule few... Wait! Don't blow a fuse! Not done yet!

One summer back in the day (I was 10-years old) my mother dropped me and my older brothers off at the library while she went shopping. While there I saw a stack of old, yellowed, magazines they were getting rid of. I asked for permission to look through them, got the okay, and one that featured the Ethiopian famines grabbed my eye. I flipped the pages in utter shock at what I saw; men, women and children by the hundred... I thought, "How could God allow this to happen?" (Back then I was a Christian by default)

I cried for a week. Then in occurred me; God didn't let it happen. WE did...

The way I see it, The Higher Power designed and built this car we call Life -- fueled it up and tossed us the keys. All we have to do is drive the damn thing and the quality (or lack thereof ) of this journey is on us, not "God."

I'm almost sure "God" would greatly appreciate if we were to individually and collectively stop using "God" as a reason and/or excuse...

You said you've seen God in action in hospital rooms. Respectfully, if "God" hangs out in hospital rooms, why would we need doctors and nurses?!?

Re abortion: That's a tough one. Personally, I believe abortion is wrong. (I also believe sex outside a committed relationship is wrong.) But I'm not a woman and I've never experienced an unwanted pregnancy.

MY OPINION: If there ever was a "woman's issue" abortion would be it. WOMEN ONLY should have a vote as to the legality or illegality of abortion. It's not a man's business, unless he's her husband or her husband-to-be. Even then, the final decision should be the woman's, alone.

I'm almost positive you agree with me here, Senor Chick'n Q.

Buck.

puckerup,

I missed something....you say;" Personally, I believe abortion is wrong." and yet you support abortion....don't you see a conflict there?....I mean either you are lying about thinking abortion is wrong (every good liberal kneels at the alter of abortion) or you are a wimp....which is it?

Look Buck,

I feel really sorry for you....No, I am not being facetious! After reading this I have gone back and read what we have both written....I have hammered on you pretty hard and perhaps I have misread you....DON'T take this as an apology because I am NOT admitting I have been wrong about you....it is just that I have a sense of fair play in me that runs very deep. I actually HOPE I am wrong about you!

I know that most of my life is behind me and sadly, for reasons that I have stated previously, I have been FAR too complacent in my duties as a citizen of the GREATEST nation on this planet...I have many times listened to haters of America in conversations that didn't involve me and rather than speak up and call them on it, I would just be still....because I felt that an idiot's ramblings could do NO HARM.....fast forward thirty years and now we have elected a man president (Barrack Hussein Obama-who wouldn't even use his middle name before the election).....and he sounds just like that man who was selling America down the river thirty years ago.....saying the same things about the US Constitution......you said a few posting ago that America's GREATEST threat came NOT from from outside but from within....you ARE dead right about that.....however, I doubt in the way that you meant it.

America is on the verge of being overthrown by people who think America is a BAD place.....they always talk about how terrible America is....and about all the wrongs she has done....while many wrongs have been done in America from the time she began (I never said America was perfect) the

freedom that exists here allows us to RIGHT those wrongs.....slavery is just one example of us doing so.

I have seen the error of my thinking this past summer at a tea party and I will no longer be a member of the SILENT MAJORITY....I think many other people have experienced the SAME....awakening. Good people who thought, as I did, that everyone has a right to speak their opinion now matter how wrong.....I would NEVER try to stop that (speech is a FUNDAMENTAL building block of America) however, if someone is telling lies or half-truths to demean my country I will not just walk on by.....I have come to realize this summer that the many soldiers who fought and died to keep America free deserve NO LESS than that from me....or any other American.....I will challenge ANYONE who denies America's greatness.....and THAT includes Barrack Hussein Obama.....if you truly ARE a patriot..and NOT the left-wing ideolog my gut tells me you are....then surely you can agree with me on this issue.

Women's rights?....see this is what I am talking about.....RIGHT HERE!!!.....you are SO concerned about women's rights but you completely ignore that women have NO rights in Islam.....they do have lots of responsibilities though....Buck, I would REALLY like for this to be a "teachable moment" from me to you.....NO BS!.....I know you would rather swallow a dog turd than admit you learned anything from me BUT.....would you at least check out what I am about to tell you?

Islam provides NO rights for women.....you speak of slavery but you have NO understanding of Muslims or the culture differences that exist between us.....THE BIGGEST reason that America is THE TARGET of Muslim extremists is the fact that, from their point of view, America has made women EQUAL to men.....and THAT poses a HUGE threat to their way of life.....women are bought and sold by Muslims even today....think about that! Is buying a wife NOT slavery?....The reason the terrorists cut the heads off of those thirteen year old girls in Indonesia was because they were attending SCHOOL! They dared to get an EDUCATION something NOT permitted them under Islamic law.....Muslims want women to be ignorant so they can CONTROL them....where is YOUR concern for women's rights?....politics certainly create strange alliances.....the Democrat Party says they are for women's rights and civil rights but they are MUTE on the suppression of poor Muslim women.....WHY? Well could it be that under Islamic Law women don't have rights and the Democrats are just recognizing Islamic Law?.....that is much the same reasoning the Democrat US Supreme Court justices used when they rendered the Dred Scott case.....THINK ABOUT THAT! Fast forward to today...Democrats can't even call the WAR on Terror....the "war on terror" anymore....NOW a terrorist bombing is a "man made disaster"???? Why is that? I know that there are MANY good people that practice the Islamic faith I know several but even most of them refuse to condemn the left-wing extremists in their faith....WHY?

Now on to Abortion: you said: My great-grandfather once said to me, "The ability to juggle more than one opinion until you have all the facts is a sign of intelligence" .....that may be true but to "ignore the facts while withholding an opinion makes one either "stupid" or an accomplice to murder!"

In the case of abortion the facts have been in for a great many years now....after the filming of an abortion, a short film called "Silent Scream,".....a film that got suppressed by the Democrats by the way.....it is VERY apparent of this "evil wrong" as you see an infant child being torn to pieces and sucked up by the vacuum tube....it throws its mouth open and tries to scream out in agony.....it is HORRIFIC!!!!....and almost to a person, everyone who has seen this film and was pro-choice changed their minds on the issue on the spot and became pro-life.....it is why the Democrats suppressed the film....they knew it posed a danger to their revered "Roe v. Wade" decision....that decision was, in fact, a violation of the Constitution and the beginning of a great harm to America by taking something (Abortion) which is a "state right" issue and should have been voted on by the citizens of each state individually but the Democrats knew they could NEVER get that done....so they put this case before the Supreme Court and let them create law from the bench....something outside of their powers under the Constitution.....do you know how many Democrats were on the Supreme Court at that time? I could tell you but......you wouldn't believe me....so look it up for yourself if it even matter to you.

As for your Great Grandfather....why the big secret about being part Indian?....I have some Cherokee blood myself....was he ashamed of it or was he afraid the rest of your "clan family" wouldn't accept him? I bet he wouldn't have supported abortion most older people could see that foe exactly what it is....but they weren't indoctrinated.

The idea that a baby is the women's body and she has the say in it is stupid.....how can a woman claim the fetus....did her body make it all by itself....NO, it did not! If you can show me a woman that gets pregnant without a male's sperm then I will agree it is hers to do with as she wishes....until then, a man is just as responsible as the woman in the conception of the child.....God wanted children to have TWO parents 1-man and 1-woman...the law certainly agrees with the position that men are equally responsible when it comes to child support....and as such under the law a man should have an "equal right" to protect his unborn child. If a woman is pregnant and wants the child and someone attacks her and the baby dies they charge her assailant with "murder".....think about it....intellectual honesty time!

Buck, I REALLY wanted to be completely un-abrasive with this posting but I am all worked up now....discussing the killing of helpless unborn children enrages me and since you questioned my manhood I can't help myself!....YES, I have a wife....we have been married since July 22, 1977. We have five children aged from 15 through 31 and we lost one at three months of age....it almost devastated me!.....we had children through three decades the 70's, 80's. And 90's and we have five grandchildren on the ground with number six on the way.

I played football for a 5A school in Phoenix, AZ.....my senior year at the homecoming game I made 23 solo (as all by myself) tackles.....a record that remains to this day! I could Military Press 290 pounds (1st place) and Squat with 480 pounds (1st place) and if my Bench Press hadn't been so weak I wouldn't have had to settle for a three way tie for "strongest man on campus".

I have attempting to be as non-confrontational as possible in my life and God has blessed me greatly....but NOW I realize that I have an obligation to resist this attempted overthrow of America. I wish more young people your age had been educated in a school system that didn't teach SO MUCH hatred for America....but the Democrats have been running education for too long...Buck, you want to know something GW did that REALLY ****** me off.....he let the "swimmer" (way before your time) write the education bill right after being sworn in.....one of the few things GW did that was obviously wrong!

Then you say; "You baby boomers adopted the swagger from your fathers."....to which I reply; "you didn't know my dad!"....I earned my swagger sir....I didn't go around imposing my will on others and I rarely got into fights and when I did it was almost always with me defending a weaker person.....nobody that knew me EVER wanted to start a fight with me because I won't quit....anyone who knows me KNOWS that....once I am engaged in a fight there is only one finish to it.....that is with me winning! I am an arrogant individual in that regard.....I learned from my dear mother that might wasn't right and I NEVER tried to intimidate anyone with my strength.....but I also knew from life that some times MIGHT was the only solution to a problem.....I know that MIGHT is the only solution to Islamic Terrorists.....MIGHT is the only thing they understand.....that is why they love you Democrats SO much.....they can ALWAYS defeat you and they don't even have to fight....in fact, they will even speak your talking points before an election because they want you guys to WIN....Terrorists LOVE weak-kneed Democrats.....and one last parting comment.....You call me a WUSSY!.....at least I can finish my thoughts on this posting WITHOUT fear of my wife!....I love my wife and respect her too but she married a MAN and wouldn't even try to keep my testicles locked up in box.....she likes the fact that I am a man....it is WHY she married me.....don't believe me ask her!......my question to you is; "Why did your wife marry you.....a man apparently too nutless to stand up against what he believes is wrong?"....you must have money!

Buck,

What you don't seem to understand is the "nature" of the political infighting.....if you will think back there has NEVER been such political infighting as occurred in the eight years of GW....I mean he reached across the aisle and allowed Ted Kennedy to write the Education Bill and he had the Clinton's over to commemorate some picture of the Clinton's and spoke kind words about them....he made SO many overt gestures to try to bring some civility to the political landscape and EVERY one of the DEMOCRATS that he tried to make NICE with stabbed him in the back....told outrageous lies about the man and raised the level of acrimony to previously unseen levels....Hillary wanted to know what he knew and when he knew it about 9/11....as did the swimmer (Ted Kennedy)....they filibustered everything and set a new standard for breaking filibusters.....they even filibustered GW's judicial appointments....something that NOT only had NEVER been done before....almost every leader in the Democratic Party had previously been on the record stating that it would be wrong to ever filibuster judicial appointments.....YET THEY DID!

I guess the idea of NO political infighting sounds good but I say let the Democrats go first since they started it. You ask me what I am fighting for; well that is an easy answer I want to keep America "FREE"!!.....what people don't understand is that every law that gets passed is just another freedom taken away from us.....just look at the FARCE of gun control....leave alone the fact that gun control is contrary to the Second Amendment.....remember those rather small patches of Blue on the US map on election night.....FBI statistics show us that 89.4 percent of the murders committed in America happen in the area covered by the Blue on that map (that is 14,548 murders-in 2008) and keep in mind that the other murders (1725 murders-in 2008) are spread out in all that vast sea of Red on that same map....two points 1. The Blue areas on the map also have the MOST strict gun control laws and several large cities Chicago and New York to name two....have a NEAR TOTAL BAN on all guns.....2. The Red areas of the map is where MOST of the guns are and yet it is far and away the safest place to be.

The entire gun control lobby bases their case for gun control on a false premise (more hatred of America).....that most Americans aren't trustworthy with a gun in their possession....I don't like several of my neighbors personally but I would prefer that they were in possession of a weapon.....the police have NO responsibility under the law to defend individual citizens....they NEVER have and this has been proven in the courts time and time again.....so IF you are counting on the police to protect you from an evil doer....you are going to become a statistic for the FBI to report on the next years murder totals.

I am NOT trying to have it both ways Buck as you suggest.....it is just that the deaths you cite are NOT RELATIVE to the discussion.....certainly it is unfortunate that so many people are murdered.....as in the case of Metropolitan areas being havens for murders.....I would like to point out that these same areas are controlled by the Liberals (Democrats) and their failed social policies must shoulder some of the blame for that fact that people there feel so desperate that they resort to murder.....and yet just the other day Chicago's own Mayor Daley was blaming America's love of guns for the Ft. Hood, TX shootings....what an idiot!!!.....how do people who think like that get elected? Obama and other Democrats were out there front and center right after the shooting trying to avert public opinion....they were trying to convince the public that it was NOT a terrorist act.....I won't repeat what I have previously written about that issue but I will pose a couple of questions: 1. Why were those soldiers not armed? 2. How many soldiers would NOT have been shot/died if they had been armed?.....it is REAL easy to shoot people who can't fire back.....if the Muslims start coming after shopping centers and schools (they have a history of doing both)....I wouldn't want to be the politician trying to stand in the way of the citizens getting armed.

It is equally unfortunate that so many motorists die each year and as far as your numbers on health care deaths for lack of health care....I am going to have to call you on that one....critically ill people go to the Emergency Room and they are NOT refused service.....to do so would be a violation of Federal Law!...your number of related deaths is VERY questionable.....like Obama's numbers for ALL the jobs he claims to have saved are BOGUS so are those death by lack of Health Care totals.....if Obama gets his way your girlfriend/woman is going to have a hard time making a living.....once they can tell you who you can see they will tell the doctor how much they can charge and how many people they will see in a day.....given the fact that SO MANY doctors have said that if Obama's plan becomes law they will be leaving the profession.....the individual caseload is going to skyrocket....I wouldn't advise any of my children to become a doctor under these circumstances.

Buck, the real truth about life is that it is DANGEROUS.....there are NO guarantees and the state has NO business trying to dictate safety for the citizens.....that is NOT their role....doing so is just another intrusion into our "personal freedom".....the government (state and federal) taxes us to death now and they can only escape this financial mess Obama has put us in by raising taxes.....the personal income tax was initiated by FDR to pay for the WWII war effort.....I kinda think that MUST be paid for by now.....what do you think?...and as for property taxes.....they defy one of the founding fathers most crucial rights for Americans...."ownership of land".....listen to me now.....NOBODY owns land (not by definition) in America today.....because if you don't pay the government taxes on what you own and paid for....they WILL take it away from you.....the overthrow of America began a long time ago.....and the people who hate us and want us brought to our knees know that the US Constitution is a HUGE roadblock to their plan.....ANYONE who speaks ill of our founding document IS THE ENEMY.....and unfortunately a large number of Democrats in Congress share Obama's disdain for that very document.

Well finally we can agree on something.....FOOTBALL!...both of my older sons played college ball one had a full football scholarship and the other had a full academic scholarship.....they both got to play one year on the same team....It was GREAT!!! I really loved the trip to the Kansas game....funny stuff happened.....the kind of stuff you tell your grandkids about....and one parting thought....if bantering with me is cathartic for you....then by all mean do so....don't feel it a waste of time....I mean, how are you going to learn all of this stuff if I don't tell you about it? :)

Take care my young friend and fellow American.

Don Quixote