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Speak Out 1/25/09

Sunday, January 25, 2009

Column math

RON Hart's Jan. 16 column said: "That it took eight years and two wars to increase the deficit $1.5 trillion ... " I wish to correct him. When President Bush entered office in January 2001, we had a national deficit of $5.75 trillion. We now have a deficit approaching $10.75 trillion. Hart better brush up on his math.

Turning, not driving

For the love of all we hold sacred, will you please not drive in the passing lanes? Those signs posted on Jackson Boulevard should be in neon. The turning lanes are not for merging. They are for turning.

Overflowing housing

I don't see how landlords can cram three families in one small home and 12 to 18 people in a two-bedroom apartment. It seems to me the wiring and sewer system would not be geared for that many people. It's obvious to me there are no inspections being done. It's annoying to neighbors of these conditions.

Spending cure

A caller claimed that FDR kept us in depression for a decade by growing government and throttling free enterprise. Turn off Rush Limbaugh for a few minutes and read history. Roosevelt was determined to maintain a balanced budget, which limited the amount of money that could be thrown into stimulating the economy. Not until World War II was imminent did he truly start spending at a level that would pull the economy out of depression. Wouldn't it be nice if we could start a spending program today that would end our current economic crisis, investing in industry and technology for our future, rather than a global war?

Adding sports

IT is exciting that sports at the seventh-grade level are being considered. This is something that should be favored by the Cape Girardeau School Board. Sports at that level should be a part of the school district. Grade school sports should be considered.

Fighting back

IN 1936 fascist Italy attacked Ethiopia, which fought back. The League of Nations condemned both countries. In 2009 Hamas attacked Israel, which fought back. The United Nations condemned both of them. It makes you wonder what the world peace crowd has against countries defending themselves when attacked.

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Column math....what's a couple trillion amongst friends ?

Turning, not driving ... what ? that's illegal ?

Overflowing housing.....must have never lived on a farm

Spending cure....yep , FDR was the man

Adding sports....learn their ABC's first then get that touchdown!

Fighting back....boys will be boys..

-- Posted by ..Rick on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 4:34 AM

Fighting back,....Dummy, doesn't know a thing about Israel.

Oh, you ignorant defenders of murderous Israel. Israel did not "fight back," as you so incorrectly stated. Israel has been in a consitant killing mode in the Occupied Territories since they took them by force in 1967.

Over the last few years, Israel has murdered men, women and children in Gaza by firing artilery shells at there recreational beaches, killing many, and wiping out one entire family of Gaza beach goers, except for one 9 year old daughter. They fired missiles, conducted aerial bombings of homes, businesses, and schools in Gaza. On occasion, the Israeli's would launch un-manned Predator aerial attacks upon political leaders of Gaza, as they did in this most recent murderous onslaught against the people of Gaza.

Israeli's, in general, are a devious, lying bunch of scum who use their secret Mossad spy service to murder politicans and scientists of nations whom they do not like. In January, 2007, the Mossad murdered an Iranian prize winning scientist who was in London attending a conference on nuclear safety.

"An intelligence source suggested that Ardeshire Hassanpour, 44, a nuclear physicist, had been assassinated by Mossad, the Israeli security service. "


This low life scum of Israel had murdered many Iraqi's, many of them scientists, prior to the Zionist infested bush regime attacked the people of Iraq, unprovoked in March, 2003. Now, they are carrying out murders of Iranians.

A non-jewish family out for a drive in the the Occupied Terroritories, were subject to being stopped by a Jewish paramilitary, militia group, have the father dragged from the car, knelt down and shot execution style, just for the blood thirsty, murdering pleasure of these butchering Jewish militia groups in Israel. They did it for chuckles. Kill the father in front of the family, just for sh*ts and grins.

The Israelis are not victims, they are the predators, they are the beasts who keep the Middle East in a constant turmoil, seething in blood and death, because it keeps their murderous Likkud political party in power, much as the ongoing "war on terror" kept the bush regime and his Zionist butchers in power for 8 years.

Nothing will change under Obama. Obama selected a vicious Israeli Zionist, Rahm Emanuel as his chief of staff, and another Israeli, Geithner as his treaaury secretary. Geithner was one of the planners of the Jo Ann Emerson's bailout of Wall Street that forces ordinary Americans to give up their wages in taxes to pay for the Bankers bonuses, dividends for their shareholders, and to buy other banks. The money was supposed to get America's failed economy jumpstarted, but Israeli Zionists, such as bush's Treasury Secretary, Henry Paulson, formerly at Goldman Sachs, came up with a plan to scru Americans and make their banking friends on Wall Street even more rich.

No, Israel, which has over 400 nukes, is not an innocent party, nor, is it a victim. You are a fool to believe such garbarge, and a propaganist for spreading their lies among Americans.

-- Posted by Robert Goodbody on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 6:13 AM

Adding sports...

Hell, NO, we should be cutting sports and focusing upon the education of the child. Missouri schools, much like the public schools in this nation are nothing more than a farm club to feed dumbed down football and basketball players into the college and so-calle professional sports team system.

These groups pay nothing, it is the poor taxpayer who is forced to cough up hard earned money to pay for these spicious sports programs in the public schools.

American schools need to focus on teaching the child, and let sports teams, if part of the school at all, become patron supported sports clubs and free the property owner from the expense of turning out bast*rds like Michael Vick for the benefit of the so called professional sports team.

Sports needs to learn to pay it's way.....ALL the way.

-- Posted by Robert Goodbody on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 6:21 AM

Good Morning Rick,

Hope your progress at quitting smoking is going better then mine. In other words I failed. lol But going to try again soon, so we'll see.

"Fighting back"

Man you poked the bear on that one. Just teasing you Goodbody. Though I don't totally agree with your stance against Isreal, I do understand a little of what you are saying. I had a Palistinian teacher while living in Saudi Arabia (late 70's early 80's). Lets just say I got a perspective that my US counter parts in school did not. And as much as I would hope for the "can't we all just get along" approach for the region, don't see it ever happening.

Off to work on my normal day off. See Liberals do work, pay taxes, support the economy, and are producers in society. Just teasing my Conservative buddies on here. Everyone have a great day and take a second to smile at and hug a loved one, cause you never know when you won't get the chance to do it again. Oh, and one final note, Mom, I get one of Rick's pictures of you in the ivory handled six shooters. hehe

-- Posted by Pups on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 6:44 AM

morning Pups

hang in there , u can quit if u really want to..

-- Posted by ..Rick on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 6:53 AM


The 'need to' is still more powerful then the 'want to' at this point. If I'm being honest with myself, my chances of actually quitting depends on those two switching places.

I have great respect for your ability do it the way you are.

-- Posted by Pups on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 7:55 AM

Column math: Bush Lover!

Turning, not driving: Oh no, I'm still going to use them for merging. Maybe we need a few more traffic lights?

Overflowing housing: LOL! Then you better get ready for it! My, my, my, what a sheltered life. Both my parents grew up in two room shacks (two rooms total) Mom had a family of 14, Dad a family of 9.

Spending cure: LOL! Just another reason NOT to waste your time listening to a Limbaugh.

Adding sports: Ohh good grief. Organized sports? Why? The kids have flag football, soccer, and baseball and basketball at their disposal now through city organized groups. We don't need to waist fundage on this! How about concentrating on the three Rs first? Prat!

Fighting back: LOL! Truly Blinkard! What conservative radio host are you listening too? In comparison: A mosquito bites your arm, gives you a little pinch, and may leave some blood from the bite. (Hamas) Now, after the Mosquito bites your arm...you swat it, splatter it, kill it, and completely wipe it off the face of the earth. (Israel) Get my point?

-- Posted by Megalomania on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 9:20 AM

"Adding sports,

Just a few questions/thoughts...

Is the new sports program cost worth the amount of learning motivation raised in the handful of students (those who elect to participate in the program)? How many kids will participate (and get to play)? v. How many kids at that grade level? (Wonder what the cost per participating child cost is?)

Now will a sports program (with its limited student reach) be MORE effective than using the funds to increase learning motivation for ALL students?"

-- Posted by Me'Lange on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, 7:34 am CDT

Me'lange...as you are familiar with high school sports programs, did everyone participate when you were in High School? Highly unlikely. I would go as far as to say that in (my days) I would guess about 30% participated in these "organized" sports.

A few things here. Most kids are so sick of school...by the end of the day they want to go home. Second, they may have interest in other things...band, spanish club, chess club..etc. Third, if they "charge" for being in these organized sports programs, expect 30% to drop to 25%. The fact is, up to the age of 14-15 (8th and 9th grades) These kids can sign up for after school soccor, baseball, basketball, flag and tackle football sponsored through the city.

Injecting and creating "organized" sports into 6th and 7th graders? I suggest this is for some parents out there trying to relive their life through their kids. Since they have scored soo poorly in the past....the school system needs to concentrate on "education", not more sports programs.

-- Posted by Megalomania on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 9:34 AM


Something you need to remember, some of these kids have nothing but organized sports to keep them 'off the streets'. Or at least that was what I was constantly told when my high school implemented a 'C' average to participate in sport programs and the football, baseball, and track teams lost 60% of their players. How could you be so heartless as not to realize that education was secondary to having a winning football, baseball, or track team?????? *sarcasm just in case someone missed it*

-- Posted by Pups on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 9:51 AM


the urge goes away whether you smoke or not .

stopping is a tough thing to do -- how long have

you smoked , 1yr , 5yrs , 10 yrs ?

after the first three days it gets better...

-- Posted by ..Rick on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 10:32 AM


I've smoked for almost 21 years.

-- Posted by Pups on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 10:34 AM

LOL! Pups, I get your sarcasm. If the school system could get 100% of the kids to sign up for "organized" sports...great. But we both know that isn't going to happen. I guess I just find it pointless to spend money on those avenues, when we already provide after school sports "to keep them off the streets" through city programming.

I have nothing against sports (Unless it's Pittsburgh Steeler's football ;o) for Rick.) I was always active in Cape's Youth Baseball League as a youth and always enjoyed intramural basketball (I just needed to be about 6 inches taller)

I just think in a time when the USA is failing in education. That organized sports in the younger classes would be the last thing these school systems need. Sports are not going to motivate education. On the contrary...we need to hire more teachers with horn-rimmed glasses, arm them with rulers, and instruct them to use them for more than just measuring. (aka...a good swat for unruly students)

-- Posted by Megalomania on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 10:37 AM


i smoked for 35yrs and so far so good !

you can do it , i know you can...

-- Posted by ..Rick on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 10:50 AM


How unruley of you, and very unliberal. Hehe. Isn't swatting with a ruler considered childabuse now days. These unruley children need love and coddling (sp?), not discipline. We became the well mannered, well behaved, citizens we are today, because of the intense love given to us by our community, not the daily spankings for misbehavior, handed out by our parents, neighbors, aunts, uncles, teachers, or anyone else who may have thought it was merited. (little sarcasm maybe!)

-- Posted by "Right"_of_Opinion on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 10:53 AM

Spending cure – turn off Rush and read history if you want, one is not related to the other. In politics one must segregate words from deeds, whether it’s FDR or BHO. The callers claims have much support from subsequent historians .On the other hand it could be argued that Rush Limbaugh has demonstrated far more intellect and could out perform the newly elected president easily with his established body of work. Obama has not shown to be widely read and is unproven academically and politically. Limbaugh has done more reading and studying of the issues than Obama, and has argued tough issues in open and well challenged debate. So turn off whichever you choose. Run and hide, or face the music and help work through these issues with the rest of us.

-- Posted by blogbudsman on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 11:19 AM

Two accurate posts Goodbody. Israel always gets a pass in this country, because the Zionists own most of the old school propaganda media (Total fact. Do the research people). But that is changing with the INTERNET where you can get more than one version of the situation and you can make up your own mind.

Note: Whenever we mention Zionists, that does not equate to "hating the Jews." There are many Jews in Israel and in this country who are totally anti-Zionists. I do not hate decent honorable Jews but I despise the Zionist Jews who have controlled Israel since 1949.

There are so-called "Christian Zionists" like Pastor Hagee in San Antonio, who get all giddy every time Israel kills a bunch of Palestinians. Hagee would pray for the destruction of the U.S. to advance the cause of Israel. Pat Robertson and most of the other T.V. preacher super stars feel the same way.

And finally does anyone think that the Palestinians will get fair treatment with a dual Israeli - U.S. citizen like Rahm Immanuel as Obama's chief of staff? Why in the world do we allow a dual citizen to have that much power?

-- Posted by Thought Criminal on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 11:38 AM


From yesterday...

I think that asking JAE's office directly about the bill in question is the right way to go, just be sure to get a straight answer - no BS!

Thanks for clearing this up. I've said many times I simply call em like I read em. Politicians speak their own language, which makes perfect sense because they also live in their own world.

-- Posted by Lumpy on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 12:06 PM

"Right"_of_Opinion, I’ve said time and time again I’m not a tree hugging liberal. LOL ! Additionally, I’ve said all along, we need to get the social workers out of the school systems and out of parenting. As a youth, I sometimes found it very liberating when I found myself getting a boot “literally” to the butt, or a switch from the tree. While I haven’t had to employ these tactics upon my children, they know “the Stare” could very well land them there. Ahh…the power of the evil eye.

Me’lange, Glad we’re on the same page on this, but you said, “Again...who plans to (*itch) and/or who plans to "walk the walk". Come on folks...this group actually DO listen IF YOU take the time to share your thoughts!” Do they “really” listen? Additionally, I look at it like this…in these times (poor economy, poor education scores, budget cuts) do I really have to micromanage the school board on common sense? This isn’t exactly rocket science.

If they are that “ignorant” (yes, I said it) to pass something like this? Then maybe we don’t need a school board at all? Off with their heads! Perhaps we need to dissolve the school board if they can’t look at the facts before them and make common sense decisions?

Lumpy, you said, “I think that asking JAE's office directly about the bill in question is the right way to go, just be sure to get a straight answer - no BS!” This will be the REAL challenge. I’m basically doing it for Willy’s sake. My experience in the past (with these types of situations) is they will tell me what I want to hear, then once the bill passes…it’s nothing like they told me to my face or over the telephone. In other words, it reads as it reads. Once is passes…Emerson will say “there was nothing hidden in the language.” They are not mincing words here; I just don’t understand why Willy is trying to mince it for them. They’ll do enough of that to me when I call tomorrow.

Well…I’m off to celebrate my parent’s 60th wedding anniversary. Grumpy old codgers, they’ll probably take the switch to my sister and me for spending too much on gifts.

-- Posted by Megalomania on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 1:03 PM

Oops...two things before I go. Both for Willy.

Willy, these "organized" sports programs won't be mandatory, so why waste the funds? They can sign up for "city" programs that offer soccer, baseball, football, and basketball. Why waste more taxpayer money on school sports?

Additionally, What have I lied about in regards to Jo Ann's bill? I've posted it, verbatum...as it reads through the Library of Congress. Are my opinions lies?? You're certainly not stating any facts! So I guess (if we're talking opinions here) that you are just as big of liar as me. Well, probably more so...since you tend to twist the GOP fodder.

-- Posted by Megalomania on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 1:10 PM


All the area Catholic grade schools play each other in basketball (boys and girls seasons) and volleyball (co-ed). The children may participate from 5th through 8th grades.

The parents fund this just like everything else. We suppliment the programs through booster club memberships and consession stand sales in which all the parents with children in the sports program must support.

The sports program is also funded through the generosity of various fraternal organizations like the parish Men's Club and the local KCs'.

If the school could not afford the sports program, it would simply have to go.

There is always the option for children to play in various city leagues, usually sponsered by Kiwanas, Rotary or in my town - the Elks' clubs.

Another thing to remember is that in our league, the parents drive the kids to the out of town games to save on bus transportation costs.

My opinions about involuntary public funding are already well documented.

-- Posted by Lumpy on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 1:30 PM


-- Posted by ..Rick on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 3:01 PM


You have no idea what I pay for a Catholic education. I will say that while we make a few sacrifices as a family, we do NOT pay out the ***.

Everyone who decries a private education as being too expensive have never actually figured the math. I am comfortably middle class, I work in a factory, and my wife works for an accountant. Also we did not inherit any money from Daddy Warbucks.

We have three very active children, two of which are currenly enrolled in Catholic schools. We make ends meet by prioritizing.

It's really no big deal, and the decisions are easy to make. In no way are we uncomfortable or without.

In answer to Me'Lange's question: yes, I understand the values and lessons that can be taught by playing sports. Personally, I think it's good for the kids to understand competition, hard work, and effort. I have helped coach grade school level sports teams in the past, and my greatest joy was watching the team's hard work come to fruition in victory, or a kid who has struggled with the sport finally get the big hit or make the big shot. Their grubby little faces light up like the sun!

-- Posted by Lumpy on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 4:09 PM


You posted "We don't want this to be another Vote Yes issue where a few...influence how tax dollars are spent (because the majority who opposed were lazy)"

Isn't it possible that people voted yes because they really wanted this to pass. And just because voter turn out was low, does not mean the percentage of yes votes would have been altered. It passed!

-- Posted by Theorist on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 4:27 PM

Just one comment on your early post, goodbody: As with so many things in the country (world), the average citizen knows very little about Israel ... Just what I guess we'd call the 'powers that be' want people to believe. Israel's background/history is not actually very deserving of much praise.

Aw, Pups ... Working/paying taxes just proves you aren't a dyed-in-the-wool 'liberal.' SERIOUS J/K! Also ... re pictures ... proves you're a dyed-in-the-wool smart aleck!

Not being much of a sports-in-school person, I agree with this, MeL ... " ... will a sports program ... be MORE effective than using the funds to increase learning motivation for ALL students?" If more parental involvement were made mandatory, many parents would probably not be 'for' sports programs.

What a novel concept, lumpy: "If the school could not afford the sports program, it would simply have to go." That should probably be made into a x-stitch hanging to put on the wall of every governmental office (just change the wording to 'If we cannot afford it ...') ... Okay, and one in every private home! ~wink~

The one-less-cigarette-a-week is a good way to try. I did that a few years ago (but did it one-less-a-day) ... Didn't ever reach the non-smoking level doing it that way, but it made me realize how many cigarettes I smoked 'automatically,' so became more aware of that and started keeping my pack out-of-reach, so at least cut back by almost half.

On quitting concepts: A lot depends upon the individual, Turnip & Wheels. I 'missed' smoking for those 7 months--Pops and SIL still miss it 'now & then,' two sons, two brothers & a male friend don't miss it at all (after 7-15 years). Turnip ... usually the 'play' on our screen names is just in fun; don't take 'vegetable root' seriously, okay? Actually, it just sort of means you're 'one of us!' ~smiling~

Public education is, per student, more expensive on average than parochial and even many 'private' systems. Odd, isn't it? I feel fortunate that my poor family somehow managed to send me and my three siblings to parochial schools. Guess that's why we ate so much ground beef, pinto beans and weiners?

-- Posted by gurusmom on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 5:03 PM

Turning, not driving: Oh no, I'm still going to use them for merging

Posted by Megalomania on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, 8:20 am CDT

Meg...do you see alot of birds when you drive??? (LOL)

-- Posted by Turnip on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, 12:50 pm CDT

Turnip, LOL! If I do, I just keep on driving. I don't let it bother me anymore. LOL!


I guess this whole idea of micro-managing a school board from making blatant stupid decisions just sizzles me jiblets. This "organized" sports thing shouldn't even be an issue. If they consider this, and pass it...then I'll be on here publicly ridiculing their stupidity.

As Willy says, "they read this forum, but don't pay much heed to it." Well, if that's the case my emails, phone calls (all of which I have done) have never made any difference. Why will it start now. Perhaps if they are reading this forum today....they'll take notice. If not, then they should be prepared for hurt feelings when I refer to them as a bunch of derogatory exploitatives.

I think I'll start a petition for Public Capital Punishment for Political Stupidity. And the bill will be written in plain clear language. S.C.R.E.W. Up, and it's, "Off with your heads!"

-- Posted by Megalomania on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 5:27 PM

Just another reason I purchased Ford stock.


While Ford has also played some games I'm not particularly fond of, it does have an air fortitude and stamina. This is EXACTLY the the type of attitude we need to take as American's. Like it or lump it, everytime you purchase an overseas rice burner you are contributing to the problem. Ford stock is cheap again now. I bought in at a $1.02. Buy a hundred shares. (the equivilent of taking a family out to eat) You may just make a few bucks.)

-- Posted by Megalomania on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 5:43 PM

Info, How could I have forgotten that you're in Austin? Until the 'dot.com bust,' a son lived there for several years. He convinced us to pick that area as our 'winter home,' and we chose New Braunfels--which was great, as it was an easy drive to Austin and to San Antonio both. Mentally picturing your 'Nanook of the North' newspeople on the overpasses ... Loved it! You do write a good story.

-- Posted by gurusmom on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 5:49 PM

LOL! I'm not asking them to read my mind, just to read the forum. I will say this, regardless of "some" of the opinions in this forum. It is representative (sample wise) of what a good majority of Southeast Missourian's think.

Example?: Barack Obama's numbers in this area. While a few of us supported him, the vast majority in this forum did not. Thus...his numbers in this area were poor.

Example: (sorry about this) The Park and Rec Tax. Overall, this was about a 50/50 debate in this room, but overall...I felt it would pass (just because of the tone of some of the comments)...and it did.

That all being said...Morley, the School Board, JoAnn, the Mayor...should pay heed to what is being said in this forum. If that vast majority of this diverse forum is against it. Then most likely the overall are against it too. Aka...The $750 Billion bailout, Morley's Books online, and Yes...this 7th grade organized sports things. Other than Willy (the odd man out) Everyone else posting in here is against it.

Soo....why NOT pay heed to it? We are all representatvie of the voting/caring public here. After all....if we weren't, why would we even bother posting our opinions on here?

-- Posted by Megalomania on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 5:53 PM

Gurusmom and Inforwarrior,

I posted responses to both of you on yesterday's Speak Out. I went to bed before reading them last night.

-- Posted by Red_Rhino on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 5:54 PM

LOL! Mel, I'm a little leary on the real name thing since "Commissioner Stalker" called my house. LOL! Speaking of which, I'm still waiting on a promise by that individual to meet with me and discuss my concerns. Yep! Learning my lesson more and more. First time shame on you, second time shame on me. No worries...next time THAT election comes around...I'll actively be campaigning against that individual, even if I have to run myself! And you can take that comment to the bank! ;o)

-- Posted by Megalomania on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 6:00 PM


I'm unsure about killing all of those sports programs (why punish those who are not guity?) As Pups mentioned earlier. I think if you implement a plan of "athletes must ascertain and maintain a certain grade" (C, B, whatever) This would assist those students who care about academics and love their sports.

However, as I have also mentioned for 7th graders...there are "plenty" of after school sports alternatives for them to sign up for, for minimum dollars. Why be redundant in this unless it is for what was mentioned earlier. (Extra Stipends for Coaches) Additionally, since 9th grade is grouped together with High School sports, I think that we "could" eliminate "organized" sports in Junior High. Just some thoughts.

Anyhow Mel, I know you have very good intentions with this, and I thank you for bringing this to my attention.

-- Posted by Megalomania on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 6:11 PM


It's too cold for beer! Even for a good, God fearin' Catholic kraut like me! I've been nippin' on Pappy's cough medicine all afternoon (Jim Beam) - keeps me warm!

Time for another snort!

-- Posted by Lumpy on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 7:16 PM

never too cold for beer!

I never knew that the public schools did not have jr. high and grade school organized sports. maybe if they did then they would be a little better at the high school level.

i have no dog in this fight. if they do institute it they should not expect any more money. do it like Lumpy says. maybe if parents had to drive their kids and volunteer as coaches the kids would learn more about sacrifice and hard work.

-- Posted by shortwhitebaldguy on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 7:29 PM

Got it Red. Thanks again. Good luck getting your daughter signed up. I know that will make you rest a little bit easier if she does.

I believe that the drop in crime statistics over the past several years gave people a feeling of security which in itself was not a bad thing. However, with the continuing decline of the economy and the massive increase of unemployed people that goes with it, I am certain things are going to change drastically and soon.

When people get desperate they will do anything for money and food including trying to take yours and mine. They first will go after the low hanging fruit and easier targets which would be women and the elderly. Then they will attack other people whom they know will not fight back.

Now is the time to help prepare those people in your lives folks. If they don't want to keep guns in their homes, that is understandable, but they need to obtain other means of self defense now and be ready if and when they need them. Always remind them that when seconds count, the cops are just minutes away.

-- Posted by Thought Criminal on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 7:49 PM

Red, thanks for directing me back to yesterday! Your comment to Info regarding cold vs hot was funny ... I used to tell the family every time I discovered the furnace thermostat pushed up to 80--that they COULD put on more clothes, but it's really tough to get any more naked than naked.

As for 'that word' ... Geez, I should have thought of that. So, we can't call a rooster 'that' either now?

Will request the S&W catalogue tonight. Read on one site that the stainless seems to be preferred, even though it is heavier--and did mention that all one needs, perhaps, is more practice to obtain accuracy. I did go into Point Blank ... wow! Lots of 'stuff' I'm going to need (How often would I need a holster after classes, for Pete's sake? Hmmm...I used to say, though, that I'd prefer a non-concealed weapon law, to be able to have my pistol on my hip so people might think twice about accosting me ... ~smiling~) ... and assume they will loan or rent a person the semi-automatic required for the classes. Lots of stuff to think about--Who would have thought?

Just do want to say ... thanks to you and all the other 'guys' who have been giving me information, tips, etc. I think perhaps I should at least go somewhere to at least 'hold' a few different guns, to get an idea of ... Does anyone deal with Shooters or JJ5? Early this spring (because I hate getting out and about in the winter except when totally necessary), I should be ready for ... class? Then later ... wouldn't it be a good idea to do some target practice every now and then?

Oops, noted your post, too, dixietrucker, about tipping ... Ummm ... Isn't good service, doing a good job, what restaurant owners pay staff for? I'm a reasonably good tipper myself ... but still would think, if I were the owner/manager of a place of business and saw a server giving less than their best to any patron--that employee would be gone--the theory being that even a 'poor tipper' is contributing to the business (which provides the employee's salary) and might not come back after receiving poor service.

-- Posted by gurusmom on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 8:06 PM


I have dealt with Shooters and JJ5 as have several family members and both are good places to go. I am sure there are others, but I haven’t dealt with them and usually go through Whitakers in Chaffee. It is always advisable to handle a firearm prior to buying them as we all differ and what one likes another will not. My wife loves Glocks while I just tolerate them. Most can find a S&W that fits their hand due to the variety of frames and grip styles.

If you do not intend to carry concealed after your class, you can probably borrow a holster from Chris Moore or buy a cheap one from Uncle Mike’s. Check with him to see about borrowing a holster or semi-auto and if he cannot, let me know and if I know when you are scheduled for your class I can have a holster up there for you to use and probably even a pistol Glock 19 or 23. Ideally, however, it would be good to fire your guns prior to training and learn disassembly. Chris and his instructors are very helpful however no matter what your experience level. You can go to You Tube and find disassembly instruction videos.

I spoke with one of the instructors today and all of their CCW classes were pretty well full in January and even a couple in February. There have been a lot of inquiries for the spring and I think I would probably wait until then also. Chris is good about rescheduling if you have a conflict and he also offers private classes if a person doesn’t like training with other though the cost is pretty high.

-- Posted by Red_Rhino on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 8:54 PM


Yes, Allen is a good guy also with a good facility and the only reason I did not mention him is because of Gurusmom's location and distance she would have to drive.

-- Posted by Red_Rhino on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 9:01 PM

Thanks, Willy, I will do that.

So now ... which one, in both your opinions, would you recommend as being the best training place--at least, for someone like me? I wouldn't hesitate to go to Sikeston, as I could always spend the night at a motel (do that once in a while in Cape when I really don't feel like driving home at almost midnight).

Uh oh, Red, am I understanding that in 'carrying concealed,' one could have a gun in a holster as long as they wore a jacket or coat long enough to cover it? Well, shoot ...! Wouldn't that just make me look ... um ... plumper? Sorry ... the female in me coming out.

Yes, I would carry concealed--that's the whole point of it all, for me. And yes, that's probably a good idea ... get to 'learn' a gun before embarrassing myself in a training class. When I go to Cape after the first of the month, I'll stop by one of the shops ... Just can't imagine buying a gun of any kind unless I'd actually held one or two. Stepson thought I should start with a 'basic' gun training before going on to a 'concealed' class ... But it seems to me that the 'concealed' would cover everything I needed to know--wouldn't it? At least from reading the Point Blank agenda, it looked like it.

I'm building up quite a file of printouts and notes here from you guys. You really can't know how much I appreciate all the information, tips, etc.!

-- Posted by gurusmom on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 9:48 PM

Turnip: I don't want to speak for Goodbody and you didn't ask for my opinion, but I will try to at least explain my position about Israel and Hamas. I have included a couple of pretty accurate links to back up what I say.

Hamas was created by Israel. Some how the talking heads on the T.V. news don't tell Americans that, but the rest of the world knows it to be true. Most Americans don't know that al Qaeda (an off-shoot of the Mujahadeen ) was created by the CIA either.

The Mossad ( Israeli intelligence ) instigated the creation of Hamas as an opposition force to be used against ****** Arafat and the PLO. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, the darling of the Zionists, released, Sheik Hasin from a life prison sentence to lead Hamas. The Wall Street Journal article I reference alludes to that.

Later after Israel got what they wanted from Hasin they killed him with a rocket while Hasin was leaving his mosque in his wheelchair.

I'm not saying Hamas is good, but Israel's hands aren't clean either.

The bottom line is that Israel created Hamas to derail the PLO because Israel never had any intention of letting a Palestinian state be created. Hamas in my opinion, gives Israel an excuse to keep Gaza a modern day concentration camp.




-- Posted by Thought Criminal on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 9:58 PM

Is Y*a*s*s*a*r..... Arafat a naughty word?

-- Posted by Thought Criminal on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 10:01 PM


I honestly don’t think you can go wrong with either place and could not say one is better than the other, just different. You are right, not much difference in the Basic and CCW Class and to me, just a waste of money.

A gun must be “concealed”, not invisible or completely undetectable. My son wears normal clothing with his off duty weapon which often consists only of a short sleeve shirt. I usually wore a vest when I was working or an outside the waist casual shirt. Some women choose a purse though I do not recommend them and then others use a “fanny pack” with holster. I have even known some Officers to carry their weapon in a “belly band” holster setup. Your trainer can give you some information. You may also wish to look into some of Paxton Quigly’s books; Armed and Female. She also has a good website. I raised a lot of issues with my Department as the regulations were often more difficult for female Officers than their male counterparts; won’t go into details. There are different issues.

-- Posted by Red_Rhino on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 10:08 PM

It is confusing to me at times too Turnip and I have been following these sorts of things for years. The powers that be want what they are doing to us to be confusing so that we just shut off our minds to it. It is painful and bewildering to accept when one first wakes up to that reality. It is similar to when a child learns that there is no Santa Claus. His world view is temporarily shattered.

We have been taught through propaganda and lies to only superficially question the "official" story. They tell us not to look behind the curtain. As each generation passed in history the deception and illusion became more and more sophisticated.

Most people, including the ones who call me crazy and a conspiracy theorist are decent and good people no matter what their political persuasion. That is why it is so hard to get across the concept that there are diabolical forces who are capable of pure evil. I admit that this stuff does sound crazy and I don't hold any animosity against people who don't agree with me.

Throughout the history of the world, wicked officials have devised all sorts of evil schemes to control the people. Using mass murder, lies, and deception to get what they want is the norm and not the exception. Most people don't believe that even when it stares them in the face.

-- Posted by Thought Criminal on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 11:18 PM

Info ... Because Arafat's name has an A, an S, and an S in the middle of it? Surely not, though, or that would affect words like 'association.'

I did quite a bit of researching and reading on Israel fairly recently (most of which was befuddling enough to fly out of my mind because I just couldn't grasp it all) because I have friends from that general area (not in Israel itself) whose families are still there. Their opinions of our 'involvement' in some (most) of those countries is ... we probably shouldn't be 'picking sides' or be involved in most of those countries (for various reasons). Anyway ... it all surprised me, as I hadn't been aware that for at least 60 years (surely more) Israel hasn't been very 'lily white' or innocent in many areas--no more or less than many of the other countries. It appears that we (Americans or at least our government) are supportive of Israel. I read quite a bit that gave me a suspicion of why, though ... and it has nothing to do with 'gee, they're historically religious and they're the Good Guys' ... ~sigh~

Bottom line from my friends' opinions is ... those countries have been fighting each other for generations ... and our interference into their affairs only creates more conflict and dissension, as well as disrespect for America and what they view as our wish to 'control' the entire world.

Red, Pops pointed out an article in a magazine his son gave him entitled 'Armed & Female,' but Quigly wasn't the name of the author.

So, you don't recommend keeping a gun in a purse ... because they're not as accessible, or ... a purse can be reasonably easy to steal (like cutting the straps & taking off with it)? Guess I was thinking 'concealed' sort of meant concealed enough that no one knew you might have a weapon ...

You know what's great about all this, though? Listening and trying to learn all I can from people who know what they're talking about (like you great guys here on SO, as well as the people who do the training) ...

-- Posted by gurusmom on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 11:39 PM

Thanks, Wheels ... Right now, I'm not 'psychologically prepared' to try again to stop smoking. The last time, a great doctor explained that 'psychological' aspect to me, as she helped me pick a time, etc., to try to quit. One thing that helped me the most was taking a mild, non-addictive 'anti-anxiety' drug for a few weeks before quitting, and a few weeks afterward.

The doctor I have now wants me to try Chantrix, but ... there are a LOT of websites where people have related their suicidal tendencies/thoughts while on it, as well as people whose friends/relatives have committed suicide. Interesting to read how it (and nicotine) works in the brain and why, but also rather frightening. If I could, I'd tell everyone to search the web before deciding to start taking it.

I DO keep trying periodically, even though apparently the smoking hasn't affected my personal health. Having a good reason to quit is helpful--even if it's my reason(s) ... hating the smell, and the expense. I know some say you have to just do it 'cold turkey,' but the gradual cutting back was easier for me. Don't tell anyone, but what worked best (the last time, and on the drug) was ... quitting but 'sneaking' a smoke with a neighbor now and then. Those sneaked smokes really tasted terrible! That only worked, though, as long as only the friend knew it. Part of that psychology, I guess.

-- Posted by gurusmom on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 11:56 PM

Last one of the day:

Unfortunately, Info, I believe much of what your last post stated. I used to accept everything at face value. At some point in time, I started noticing discrepancies in a lot of what I read, and/or things that only made sense on the surface of them (think it started with Pres. Kennedy's assasination, then the convenient murder of Oswald, etc.) ... Sometimes I think now that I don't believe hardly anything I see/read from the media (or government) ... or at least I always have the feeling that I need to 'question' what appear to be facts. That's why I spend so much time trying to find 'facts' (and then disect them) which has become somewhat easier now that we have the internet sources. I don't necessarily see a 'conspiracy' everywhere ... but am not so naive as to believe everything that is presented as 'factual.'

And as far as Santa? No one ever agreed with my stance on not lying to my children ... I wasn't so crushed as a child when I discovered that there really was no Santa, as I was at realizing that even my beloved grandmother had, in essence, LIED to us--while teaching us NOT to lie! Isn't that stupid of me? However ... I told my children the story of Santa (the myth), and warned them NOT to tell any of their playmates ... At the very least ... they never went through any of the emotional 'junk' that I did every year, when, no matter how good I tried to be, Santa was never as kind to me as he was to some of my more finacially sound friends.

-- Posted by gurusmom on Mon, Jan 26, 2009, at 12:19 AM

Gurumom, You said

"Bottom line from my friends' opinions is ... those countries have been fighting each other for generations ... and our interference into their affairs only creates more conflict and dissension, as well as disrespect for America and what they view as our wish to 'control' the entire world."

Bingo Mum, this is what I have said all along. We must remember...in the big picture we're just a school boy. The other countries have been fighting for "Thousands" of years.

Let's take this scenario. (You've been a major player in a thousands of years war. You've killed, tortured and maimed...just as your enemies have) Aka...Israel.

Now, on the block moves a new kid in town (The USA) We young, fresh, niave, and come in the name of justice, liberty, and all that is right. (emphasis on "all that is right) Now...You've been a bad boy for thousands of years, you're down right evil...and you need to "clean up" your image.

What are you going to do? You're going to invite the new goody two-shoes naive kid over to play. Then walk him around your enemies and say, "Looky, I have me a new, clean-cut, power house of a friend now." (and then wink at your enemy as you say it)

Sooo who are all of the enemies of "Israel" going to hate? Of course...the new kid on the block. Us.

-- Posted by Megalomania on Mon, Jan 26, 2009, at 12:57 AM

Looks like the paper is having difficulty today....

Guru, if you see this, why are you suddenly (to me it seems) interested in carrying? It is not my business of course, but this is a big step, and one that several on here would encourage you to do whether necessary or not.

You are a smart person, and I am sure you have weighed what you are contemplating. Please consider whether it is logically unavoidable before taking this action.

-- Posted by Theorist on Mon, Jan 26, 2009, at 9:42 AM


Why would you assume that Gurusmom has not given this a great deal of consideration and that her decision is well thought out? She has posted on here for quite some time that she was considering this.

I agree that anyone contemplating the purchase of a firearm for any purpose and especially self defense should think long and hard about this decision and only take action after they are comfortable that they have come to the right decision.

Much of this is dealt with in the classroom portion of the training which is the first half of the day and after the reality of what a person is dealing with is thoroughly examined, some will change their mind and leave at this point. I know of no responsible trainer who will “encourage” anyone to carry a weapon. My wife has taken the class and does not carry a weapon on her person, but does keep one in her car and has done so for years.

I view Gurusmom as an intelligent, thoughtful individual who has come to her own decision based on her own well thought out reasons, but apparently you do not.

Also, this is not an irrevocable course as you can sell your gun as quickly as you bought it.

-- Posted by Red_Rhino on Mon, Jan 26, 2009, at 11:13 AM

There is a Speak Out column in today's paper, just type in Speak Out in the search bar, so far Rick is the only one there.

-- Posted by Red_Rhino on Mon, Jan 26, 2009, at 11:19 AM


I have to agree with you on the sports situation in school. I came from a high school with a really good football team, and that was all that mattered. The grade requirements were severely "laxed", if they were required to have a "C" average but were horrible students, they still always somehow ended up with a C average.

I really didn't like athletes while in school, I do think it's a neat concept to offer scholarships and educations to people who may have never been able to go to college. Unfortunately, the vast majority of my "super-athletic" cohort were not even close to playing at a mediocre college sports level, and if they were they quickly failed all of their classes.

We do need more horn-rimmed glasses teachers in the school, so I wouldn't have had to call half of my teachers "coach" in high school. You can only imagine the vast knowledge I didn't acquire by walking into a classroom and having Coach So and So hand me a worksheet, tell me to fill it out and not talk.

Sports do have a positive influence on some, but seemed to punish the majority of other students with un-qualified teachers, and favoritism with that kid who can't spell "cat" but can do a back-flip in the end zone.

-- Posted by ZeRo1 on Mon, Jan 26, 2009, at 12:21 PM


I have to agree with you on the sports situation in school. I came from a high school with a really good football team, and that was all that mattered. The grade requirements were severely "laxed", if they were required to have a "C" average but were horrible students, they still always somehow ended up with a C average.

I really didn't like athletes while in school, I do think it's a neat concept to offer scholarships and educations to people who may have never been able to go to college. Unfortunately, the vast majority of my "super-athletic" cohort were not even close to playing at a mediocre college sports level, and if they were they quickly failed all of their classes.

We do need more horn-rimmed glasses teachers in the school, so I wouldn't have had to call half of my teachers "coach" in high school. You can only imagine the vast knowledge I didn't acquire by walking into a classroom and having Coach So and So hand me a worksheet, tell me to fill it out and not talk.

Sports do have a positive influence on some, but seemed to punish the majority of other students with un-qualified teachers, and favoritism with that kid who can't spell "cat" but can do a back-flip in the end zone.

-- Posted by ZeRo1 on Mon, Jan 26, 2009, at 12:23 PM

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