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Speak Out 8/24/08

Sunday, August 24, 2008

Raise the drinking age

The logiC behind the college presidents seems to be, lower the buying age so that the oldest students won't buy the younger one alcohol. I went to college in Kansas, where an 18 year old could purchase 3.2 percent beer, age 21 for all other liquor. We still lost a freshman to drinking at a frat party. The drinking age needs to be raised to 25, eliminating the college presidents' problem with the seniors buying for the freshmen. Doctoral students usually don't buy booze for an underage party. We cannot allow the age to be lowered. If this really comes up for discussion, let's increase the age to 25.

Privatize Jefferson

Jefferson School should be turned over to a private concern and run as a charter school. Though the jury is still out on the success of such schools, it's worth a shot. Of course, this would require a school board with a strong collective backbone and the political will to stand against those who stick with tradition. I think that the school board as currently constituted has what it takes to make such a courageous decision.

Mom sets example

Michael Phelps should receive another gold medal for bringing ADD/HD into a positive light. People with ADD/HD or any form thereof are intelligent, amazingly creative, inherently talented and passionately driven about something they love. Sadly, they are discriminated against, teased, and even punished by educators more times than not and made to believe they are incapable, lazy or, worse yet, not smart enough. Schools and teachers fail these capable students by the thousands each year. I saw first hand in our local school systems the travesty called a free and appropriate education given to handicapped, LD, ADD/HD, BD or any other derogatory label they put on students these days. They not only take away the will to learn & achieve but sometimes set a precedent for low self-esteem that can follow these student's throughout their adult lives. Perhaps Michael and his mother's candid interviews will give others with a learning difference the motivation to know they CAN -- even when the system tells them they can't. Parents as well as educators need to take notes from a person like Mrs. Phelps. She's not only an amazing mother and advocate but a dedicated educator and administrator that doesn't quit when the bell rings.

Finger on the button

Rush Limbaugh recently asked whether we would rather have John McCain or Barack Obama as president in a nuclear standoff with Russia. In such a scenario, I'd take Obama (JFK) over McCain (George W. Bush) any time.

Bad time for Democrats?

It is indeed a tough time for Democrats. Not only is the Democrat-controlled Congress the least effective in our history as evidenced by its passing of the fewest legislative bills of any Congress, but its presidential candidate has been surpassed in the polls by John McCain.

New versus old

The choice is ours: We have one county commissioner that has been in office for a short time. The other good old boy commissioners and county officials are trying to get the new guy ousted because he won't roll over for them. Cape Girardeau County has two choices. We can end the corruption and get rid of the good old boys or keep them in place and get what we've been getting.

Media relations

Let me get this straight: Morley "I never met a TV camera I didn't like" Swingle is critical of someone else using the press?

Poor attitudes

I was at the Family Services office yesterday applying for assistance. In line was a young couple with bad attitudes and an older lady -- all complaining about the information they had to give each time they visit. The lady behind the counter was just doing her job and that couple and other lady were disrespectful and rude. No matter the reason you are there, that lady behind the counter has a process she has to do for each individual applying for assistance or just wishing to speak with their caseworker. The way these people were acting truly showed how immature they really are. If I worked for a government agency like Family Services and people approached me with this type of attitude and comments, I would deny any assistance until they could be mature and respectful through the entire process -- if it were legal to do that, of course.

Purcell and a county charter

I'm glad Jay Purcell has an opponent. We need to get rid of him. All he does is shoot his mouth off and try to make others look bad. Then we need to bring in a county charter, because it's time we professionalize our county government.

War drums

The independent state of Georgia, while a junior democracy, has little to do with America's national strategy. All of you liberals need to stop whining about the war in Iraq if you're going to beat your war drums over the Russian invasion of Georgia. Get a grip on reality, folks, or at least stop being hypocrites.

Casino good for business

I THINK a casino in Cape would really help the downtown area with new businesses. Most of the people who go to casinos are elderly. This would not start a big crime wave. There just are a few who think gambling is a sin yet they play bingo every week. If we vote no to gambling in Cape Girardeau, then we should also do away with bingo and lotteries.

Crime in Morley

May I ask where is the law enforcement in Morley? We see the Scott County Sheriff's Department here more than the Morley Police Department. My biggest complaint is all the drug activity that is out in the open, and all the people that are out all hours of the night doing who knows what. This used to be a quiet town a few years ago.

American weakness

The largely successful Russian invasion of Georgia represents an abject, indisputable failure of U.S. foreign policy and a plain as day demonstration of our too thinly spread military presence in strategic areas of the world. Folks, our weakness is showing.

Speak Out culture

People may say the River Campus has closed the gap in area cultural life but the content of Speak Out comments lately seems to indicate that contributors are working overtime to not only reopen but make the gap wider.

Be wary of strangers

AS we have seen from a recent robbery, you need to be mindful of good Samaritans who may not have good intentions. If you're too drunk to drive, get a friend to drive you home or call a cab and don't trust someone you don't know. This is a good lesson for all of us.


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A Little Economic News for your Sunday.....and you thought that good times were just around the corner?

Read the entire account of this financial conference in the Seattle Times, that drew the head of the Fed, the London School of Economics, the Bank of Italy, and just about every other heavy financial hitter. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/bu...

Oh, yes, I, too, question the Wall Street bailout and unabashed cronism that infests this government.

"Wall Street bailout aid questioned at Fed event"

By JEANNINE AVERSA

AP Economics Writer

JACKSON, Wyo. —

"Do Washington policymakers listen too much to Wall Street? A possible bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, on the heels of similar action involving investment firm Bear Stearns, seems to send a loud signal to financial companies that the government will clean up their messes.

That's the feeling of some analysts and academics here Saturday, the final day of a high-profile economics conference. The Federal Reserve's handling of the worst financial crisis to hit the country in decades spurred much debate.

"The Fed listens to Wall Street," said Willem Buiter, professor of European political economy at the London School of Economics and Political Science. "Throughout the 12 months of the crisis, it is difficult to avoid the impression that the Fed is too close to the financial markets and leading financial institutions, and too responsive to their special pleadings, to make the right decisions for the economy as a whole," he wrote in a paper presented to the conference.

Critics like Buiter worry that the Fed's unprecedented actions - including financial backing for JPMorgan Chase & Co.'s takeover of Bear Stearns Cos. - are putting taxpayers on the hook for billions of dollars of potential losses. They also say it encourages "moral hazard," that is, allowing financial companies to gamble more recklessly in the future."

"Market participants failed to soundly manage, measure and disclose risks, with ignorance, greed or hubris playing their customary roles," said Mario Draghi, the governor of the Bank of Italy, who is involved in international efforts to deal with the worldwide financial crisis."

Scary, scary stuff.....RG

Read the entire account here... in the Seattle Times.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/bu...

-- Posted by Robert Goodbody on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 4:30 AM

Let's Wait Until Jay Purcell Has A Chance to Speak.

All the Mish Mosh about Jay Purcell. Let's wait until we hear the complete tapings before we rage against Jay.

I have not heard the entire tape recordings that Commissioner. Purcell made, but of the clips that I have heard, I do find something very troubling.

I would have to have the entire set of tapes to be certain, but from what I have gathered, I believe that I am hearing Presiding Commissioner Gerald Jones, in so many words, telling Commissioner Purcell to "shut up, go along with the flow, don't rock the boat, keep the dummies in the dark, you are making a lot of money, we all have a good thing going, just keep your mouth shut and don't ruin it for all of us."

Now, again, I want to hear the entire collection of tapes before I make up my mind. I do not like this type of government. I don't want "go along, to get along" type men, or, women to represent me, because those kind of people never represent the people, they only represent the special interests, and their own interest.

If this is the mindset of the Cape Girardeau County Commission, or, at least, certain members of the commission, I can only tip my hat, and thank Commissioner Purcell in exposing what appears, on the surface, at least, is a "good ole boy, buddy-buddy, snooker-them" kind of politics in our county.

I do hope that these attacks against Commissioner Purcell isn't the rantings of cronyism minded old-boy Country Club Republicans.

If Commissioner Purcell isn't re-elected, will it be business as usual on the Cape Girardeau County Commission? It that what they want? Is it the Presiding commissioner's desire yo get back to having the "best jobs, they ever had, making more money than ever"? Is that what they want? Is that what we want?

When someone starts talking in essence, in my opiniion, about "don't rock the boat, keep quite," that is when I get a little concerned about what is really going on in Cape County Government.

I really hope that is not the case. To be certain, I must have access to the entire tape recordings that Commissioner Purcell made.

I don't like smoke-filled, back room politics. Is it time that we cleaned the air, and moved those seeminly country club Republican, good ole boy types on into retirement?

After we hear the tapes, we all may be saying "Sweep it clean, Jay, sweep it clean. Here's a new broom to get the job done."

I hope that Councilman Purcell can get his message out to the voters. I further hope that they are smart enough to see what has been going on during those "Don't worry, the citizens can't make it because they have to work" DAYTIME, WORKDAY ONLY Cape Girareau County Commission meetings.

I am sure that some in the Republican Country Club mindset wish that this would all go away with the election of one of their own, or, a "get-a-longer" puppet. I am sure that these types will work very hard to defeat Commissioner Purcell. That is all the reason more that we should stand up and slap the hands that are allegedly in the cookie jar, and keep Purcell in office.

Who is minding the hen house in Jackson? The foxes?

Just my opinion.

-- Posted by Robert Goodbody on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 7:49 AM

I recently (in the last 4 days) made 2 trips from Dexter to Metropolis, Il to the Harrah's Casino. Just casually observing, there were approximately 40% of the cars had Missouri license plates. Lost $51.00 for about 8 hours of entertainment. That's $6.00 an hour.

-- Posted by changedname on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 7:59 AM

I am not much of a gambler.

If I were going to spend $51 for entertainment, it would be for a much shorter, but, in my opinion, for a more "spirtually" rewarding time. If you add the gas money that you spent, round trip, to that $51 entertainment expense, then I could really, really have a good time. "Love you long time GI." "BOOM BOOM?" Ah, you never forget the classics.

To each his own, Dexterite, to each his own.

I like your issue posts. You are very intelligent and well versed on the topics that you discuss.

-- Posted by Robert Goodbody on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 8:13 AM

Good morning all,

I have to agree with some of what the caller for SO said about ADHD/ADD kids being punished for the problems they have. It can damage their self/esteem among other things. Alot of times when the child is diagnosed with these problems it's because they are very bored or aren't challenged enough. I have a grandson and grandduaghter who have this and the busier they are the better they seem to do. Putting a child in a special class as they call it has hindered my grandduaghter quite a bit, this year however since school has started they haven't put her in there like before, and we are hoping they won't. She has a different principle so maybe this person will help make a difference this year. My granddaughter all summer when she was a round me had no problems or issues with the things they kept saying for the past few years that she didn't comprehend or wasn't ready for this or that, they are wrong and as we have complained about it so many times and tried to tell them they are wrong never did they want to agree or try to help with the problem. However, this year is starting off different, hopefully it will be a better year for her and those of us who know she is capable of doing more than they have given her credit for.

Twiggy

-- Posted by Aggiefan/Twiggy on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 8:15 AM

Did the school try to drug your grand children? This seems to be the typical MO in most of these cases that they claim are an attention disorder.

-- Posted by Robert Goodbody on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 8:19 AM

Mr Gooodbody,

Both of my grandchildren on some medication, but the medication is not enough for them to be doped up, so to speak. Most of the medication they take is at night so they can settle down to get a little sleep. My grandson will only sleep for 2 to 4 hours without and gets destrcutive or use to anyway with out it. My granddaughter takes something so she will not pick or scratch, when she was smaller she use to pull clumps of her hair out til she had bald spots. They both like to go to school and learn new things, and they love to be given chores and jobs around the house to help someone. They also like to watch certain things on the Discovery channel and other learning channels. I think as they get older this is something they will out grow as the doctor has told us the same thing. The sleeping problem my grandson has however is some what a heredity thing, as I have issues with sleeping, and so does my dad. I know there are some schools out there that are really bad about saying that kids need medication, I can't really say they have done that to us, so much as they just didn't want to mess with trying to keep them from being bored or saying they couldn't learn something. My daughter their mom, had the same problem when she was younger, and she out grew it, she didn't have to take any medication though. Lucky for me her teacher in Kindergarten gave her extra work when I asked her for help. She cried because she didn't want to go to school and come to find out she was bored to tears. Her teacher gave her a little extra work or would have her help someone who might have a little trouble with something, this made her enjoy school alot more. I also tried to see about having her moved up a grade, which they didn't want to do at that time, don't know if they have changed any on that or not. If her birthday had been a few weeks earlier she would have been in the next grade anyway, but they didn't care about that, I was just lucky that her teacher was willing to help out. It's to bad that more of them aren't that way now.

Twiggy

-- Posted by Aggiefan/Twiggy on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 8:39 AM

ADHD/ADD

This caller has hit on target. I have a son now in third grade who is ADHD and ODD. The more we as his parents tried to work with the schools the more they fought us saying he just didn't want to do the work refusing to see that when he did make progress his whole face would light up. In order to get the school to show any support at all we had to go over their heads to the state and file a complaint. Now he has a great teacher who actually takes the time to listen to him, help him and work with us and this year is going so much better. This is real, it is more than just a kid that needs discipline, we have very strict rules and guidelines for our son but everyday is still a struggle. Sports has been his outlet for a few years now and he is good at them. As a parent with a child with ADHD I get tired of hearing how it isn't real, if the parents would just bust their butt they wouldn't act that way. ADHD is actually one of the longest studied learning disorders in children. Dr Brad Robinson in Cape is great at working with these kids and one of the few that doesn't go straight to meds for them. Kids seeing someone with ADHD win 8 gold medals it gives them hope.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 8:58 AM

Also what many parents do not know is he school can not make you medicate your child. They can threaten and even call DFS if you refuse to do so but in the end it is up to the parent. If the child is becoming to disruptive at school then the schools are suppose to do an evaluation on the child and set up an IEP for them for other medical conditions which is what covers the ADHD at that time the parents will have to work with a doctor and the school as a team to find a middle ground for the child.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 9:02 AM

Robert Goodbody

I agree 100% with your 6:49am posting regarding the County Commission situation and Jay Purcell. FYI, the complete tape of the conversation between Jay Purcell and Gerald Jones during the infamous ride to Jefferson City is available in Kara Clark's office (County Clerk in Jackson). You may go and request a copy and under the Sunshine Law they must provide it to you. I have it on VERY GOOD authority that Rock Finch was hand picked and recruited by Gerald Jones and his crew. A vote for Rock WILL BE a vote for Bock. In the complete recording Gerald Jones tells Jay Purcell very clearly that if he doesn't get in line, they will put someone up to run against him. I assure you that if Mr. Finch is elected it will be business as usual in Cape County. I know a lot of people are upset that Jay Purcell taped conversations and meetings, however I believe he should be called a hero. I don't see that he had any other options as whenever he tried to call anyone out they repeatedly lied. He put everything on the line, including his reputation and livelihood to bring the corruption and back door dealings to our attention. Now he will pay the price unless the voters of this county educate themselves and track down the evidence to get to the real story and go out and vote. I agree with you, I hope he can get the truth out there and people do the right thing and support him in his efforts.

-- Posted by lovebuddy on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 9:03 AM

Semoangle,

How are you feeling, great I hope. I agree with you, and I'm glad your child has a teacher that cares. I think the teacher my granddaughter has this year is going to be great for her and I'm hoping the same will be for my grandson. It makes me so mad that kids that do have this problem seem to think that it is always the parents fault.

Twiggy

-- Posted by Aggiefan/Twiggy on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 9:05 AM

Twiggy

Sent you and e-mail with an update on things here more as a warning for Nickey as her daughter and mine are the same age. things are going as good axs can be expected though. The stress from this is hitting me hard but called my doctor and he is great got me somethings called in to help battle it.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 9:11 AM

Be wary of strangers

Sorry folks but it isn't always just strangers you have to be wary of. In our area last Thursady a man was arrested and charged friday with 18 counts of child molestation. This man was someone we all trusted with our kids, was always a friend when the adults needed one etc now the list is growing as to the number of kids he violated.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 9:17 AM

Semoangle,

thanks and I hope the doctor gives you the help you need.

Twiggy

-- Posted by Aggiefan/Twiggy on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 9:19 AM

Pretty sad when you can't trust anyone any more though

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 9:31 AM

Yes it is.

Twiggy

-- Posted by Aggiefan/Twiggy on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 9:33 AM

Raise the drinking age: Better yet, let's lower it to the Perry County drinking age, 12.

Privatize Jefferson: MMM....Yeeah.

Mom sets example: Hurray! Today's the last day of the Olympics!

Finger on the button: Yes, we all seen GWBs swift action on 9/11. Yes, if I remember correctly one journalist put it as, "Bush was flying around the country like a scared child, seeking refuge in his mother’s bed after having a nightmare” Where was I? Five miles from the Pentagon, and later in the city trying to retrieve my wife who was working two blocks from the White House.

Bad time for Democrats?: Surpassed? LOL! You must be reading the Fox Poll! LOL

New versus old: Interesting question, how are you going to vote in the Presidential Election?

Media relations: No...the voters are critical of our local politician's using the press.

Poor attitudes: There are two sides to every story. Someone has to be accountible. They may have had good reason to be angry.

Purcell and a county charter: Agreed. I also think IF we are so whiskey bent and hell bound on being a first class county, that it's time to EMBRACE all of the criteria required into being a First Class County. Look it up people, we're missing some huge elements. All elements that will cost the taxpayers HUGH amounts of money.

War drums: I think you are sadly mistaken. It's the conservatives beating war drums on Russia, it's the liberals who are siding WITH Russia.

Casino good for business: Incoherant, and choppy...but we get the point.

Crime in Morley: They are hiding.

American weakness: *blushing* Oops.

Speak Out culture: Diligently

Be wary of strangers: Values/Morals

-- Posted by Proud_Democrat on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 10:01 AM

Thanks for the comments Mr Robert Goodbody, I also enjoy reading your posts, especially your aviator. Says a lot.

-- Posted by changedname on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 10:03 AM

Drinking age

If they are going to lower the drinking age then why not let it be for all the soldiers who are not yet 21 but can go and give their life in a war. College kids are going to drink no matter what the age is but using them as an exuse to lower the age is stupid. Do you know just how many high school seniors are 18 and this would also be letting them buy it leagally to distribute at parties where kids that are 15 and 16 are at as well. @1 is a good age leave it alone.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 10:08 AM

Twiggy/Aggie

I tried to cool the fire in the debate last night with a little humor and sorry to say that I don't think any one even read my post's.

BUT!! As I know that the two of you relish a good laugh if you get the time take a look!!

As for the rest of you all if you take the time to laugh a little it will help you live longer to be crabby!

-- Posted by Silent_Bob on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 11:34 AM

Thanks Bob,

I'll have to go back and check it out, we are having some problems with the internet service down here, and I for one am not to happy about it. I can always use a good laugh.

Twiggy

-- Posted by Aggiefan/Twiggy on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 11:44 AM

Bob,

LOL, so sorry I missed those postings, I was kind of having a bad day and evening so they would have been really good for me at that moment. However, I still liked them, read the pig thing before, but it's still funny.

Twiggy

-- Posted by Aggiefan/Twiggy on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 11:52 AM

Testing. (u)Testing(/u):

Hmmm. Let's see if I'm operational again. Is anyone else as (b)intolerant(/b) as I am about thunderstorms, along with other annoyances? I hate 'em about as much as those global-warming(er)/cooling(uh)/climate change type blizzards and ice storms in the winter.

It seems as though our power sub-station has a big bulls eye targeted on it for T-storms to aim at; every time there's even a little rumbling going on, we get flickers, brown-outs, or outright power failures. So, heck-fire, no sense in firing up the ole 'puter during even minor storms...it's acting goofy even with it shut down during them anyway.

Oh, well. Doesn't appear that I've missed out on much in the bog. Perhaps I should see what the rest of this mom & pop paper has to say.

Test Out...if not the power again!

-- Posted by Herr_Hauptmann_DES on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 12:39 PM

...seems like this lower the drinking age thing

pops up every few years or so then goes away...

it most proberly will this time too ...

i dunno why 21 is the magic number or who

decided 21 should be the legal limit but

it's been that way for so long and worked , why

change it now ?

i believe military bases legal limit are 18

but i've been wrong already today ...

-- Posted by ..Rick on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 12:47 PM

Doctor

You wrote....

"Finger on the button: Yes, we all seen GWBs swift action on 9/11. Yes, if I remember correctly one journalist put it as, "Bush was flying around the country like a scared child, seeking refuge in his mother’s bed after having a nightmare” Where was I? Five miles from the Pentagon, and later in the city trying to retrieve my wife who was working two blocks from the White House."

Not that it matters anymore but I get weary of this story being told about President Bush. This journalist is a nit wit if he does not know the protocol in a security crisis such as 9/11. In DC all designated officials and family were to be evacuated to the hidden bunker system, which they did. President Bush was in Florida so the security forces put him in the air immediately, as is protocol, until the situation could be evaluated. He did insist on landing at Barksdale, Shreveport, La to make a statement to the people before traveling back to DC. We do protect our president and that's just the way it is, clueless.

-- Posted by BABE on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 12:48 PM

Ah, "chit" (that paper thing, donchaknow?!)!! I thought I finally had that italics/bold/underline thing down & dirty ...per SWBG's guidance quite awhile ago; guess not. So, you 'puter gurus out there, what the sam-hill-heck-fire am I doing wrong now? I've got trouble (er, belay that)...business at the national (in)security level to conduct here...or is it obstruct!!!

Maybe I'm a prime study for the axiom that you can't teach an ole dog new tricks...can perhaps keep me happy by just tossing some raw, albeit fresh roadkill now & then!

-- Posted by Herr_Hauptmann_DES on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 12:53 PM

rick

I hope that the legal drinking age should be lowered back to 18 years of age. It's an old saw, but if you're old enough to serve your country in combat, you should be old enough to buy a beer.

The only reason it was raised is that MADD successfully lobbied the feds until they gave in to their demands. States that didn't comply were threatened with a huge reduction in highway funding. This is their usual method of operation to stomp on states rights. Yes, indeedy, just send us your tax money and we will decide whether to give some back or not.

-- Posted by BABE on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 1:05 PM

re: finger on the button

I knew JFK and Obama, sir, is no JFK. giggle

-- Posted by BABE on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 1:10 PM

Clueless Babe, Yes...but there HAVE been valient Presidents who put their life BEFORE their country. Washington, Roosevelt, knew that you can't lead a country from the rear of the battle. What greater motivator than a President who will "physically" lead his forces into battle.

Sick of the GWB wussy story? I'll tell it again if you like.

-- Posted by Proud_Democrat on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 1:21 PM

MeLange

You wrote....

"New versus old, Purcell and a county charter, New versus old, et al, The voters will decide. And in the meantime...I wish the editors would let this subject go."

That's a very LIBERAL comment. Liberals always preach to folks what they should be in feeling, studying, reading, eating, child rearing, driving et al. Evidently there is still much interest in the county news and you will just have to endure it, dear.

-- Posted by BABE on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 1:23 PM

Good Grief, now EVERYBODy's posts are underlined. How Poignant

-- Posted by Proud_Democrat on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 1:23 PM

The real problem with 21 as the age for legalized drinking in the US is that by casting 80%-90% of college aged population as "lawbreakers" it encourages both overindulgence & other associated bad behaviors.

Instead of starting to drink in environments where moderation & openness is the norm most teenagers get their first experiences with alcohol either via covertly stealing some from adults or through unsupervised parties where how much alcohol one has drank becomes a mark of pride. Also by underage drinking being an illegal activity it lowers the boundary to other illegal activities. An intoxicated minor who is already at risk of arrest or citation isn't going to acknowledge another huge leap of legality before experimenting with more dangerous drugs, petty crimes, or drinking and driving. In my own youth I saw many otherwise relatively harmless college drinking parties descende into dozens of drunken students speeding away from the scene whenever there was the faintest rumor that the police might decide to stop by. Drinking laws are the biggest factor in young people seeing police officers as enemies, so without them I would expect to see far more youth cooperation with investigations of far more serious crimes.

Instead of a single age at 21 we need a graduated system that provides a way for teenagers to become responsible drinkers instead of binge drinkers. At 16 we should allow youth to enjoy up to two glasses of either beer or wine with a meal. At 18 allow them to enter bars to drink, and then at 21 allow them to purchase hard liquor to take home. This way the first drinks aren't about get falling down drunk but about having a drink to compliment dinner and once teenagers have had a year or two to become comfortable with that they can graduate to being allowed to consume alcohol in bars and other public venues where their behavior can at least be somewhat controlled.

-- Posted by Nil on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 1:30 PM

Herr

Just remember that everything you want to change has to be put between brackets that look like this. [] If you want bold then put a b between the brackets, no spaces. They type the word/words that you want bold. When done, be sure and close out bold by typing /b between the brackets. Go ahead and try it.

-- Posted by BABE on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 1:31 PM

MeLange

Yes, I did read your posts yesterday. I am yawning again. Now I'm going to try to clean up your underline mess for you. Wish me well.

-- Posted by BABE on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 1:39 PM

Mel:

I'll give it a try, even though I have a talent for "propellering" (I think the s.c.r.e.w.i.n.g. word is still being "Borked") up this 'puter stuff pretty good without much effort!

I thought SWBG shared a fairly easy method for doing this stuff as you type right here in the "post comment" block, but maybe I muffed up (oh,oh...is m.u.f.f.e.d. a borked word too? we'll see!) his directions...not too hard for me to manage muffing, donchaknow?!

Anyway, here's how (I thought) SWBG described the method: Basically, use to do italics...and make sure to use the "/" to end the process. BIG howsumever, however(!), when doing bold or underlining. Thought he emphasized using "( )" around a "b" or "u" respectively. Well, the italics gig seemed to work, but not too "chit"-hot for bold or underlining. But maybe he meant to use [ ] for all? Let's see: For bold try this way or for underlining and see if that works.

Hmmm. But, Mel, seems like your method just managed to underline all the SO posts!!! Anyway, sorry about all this goofing off...if not up. Funny, I seem to be doing well with the potential of graduating top of the class in the Dirty-Ole-Man/Senility Prep Academy...but manage to flub up at getting a handle on this fancy-Alpha'd stuff!!!

See? I'll try it again: For (b)bold stuff(/b) or for (u)underline stuff(/u) Or maybe I got cross-eyed and he meant to use "[ ]" for all...so, for bold? and for underline? What the hey, either method seems to be too much like work, even though it's fun, considering the agenda of chores Mule has lined up for me.

-- Posted by Herr_Hauptmann_DES on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 2:03 PM

Nil

Parents can legally allow their own children to drink in the home. Your graduated steps sound uptopian but not realistic. Lower the age to 18 and you will have less 'brown bagging' by minors.

-- Posted by BABE on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 2:06 PM

Well DANG ME all over the freakin' place, I did get cross-eyed! , 'cause it's 'sposed to be [ ] vice ( ) for all of it. Well, it's cool, but I'll probably forget all this stuff soon anyway...unless Bethie can find a way to permanently flog it into my nebulous memory!!

Geeze, if I ever get around to posting something serious-like, I'll no doubt also forget what the jeepers I wanted to say in the first place! Haven't even gotten my face into the paper yet. Back in awhile...well, if Mule doesn't get me first!

-- Posted by Herr_Hauptmann_DES on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 2:16 PM

Sorry but a minor CANNOT drink in their home. If a parent gives the child a beer and say they are sitting outside at the BBQ grill, in their own yard if someone sees it they can be charged with MIP and the parent can be charged with distributing alcohol to a minor. The age is 21 period and no matter where they are caught at before that they are charged with MIP.

Last I heard military bases still had a 21 age limit as well although they were trying to get it changed BUT if the state the base is in allows the age limit to be lowered even on base then they will loose funding for road projects.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 2:36 PM

Easy Duz it SpeakOut Fonts

-- Posted by BABE on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 2:38 PM

Babe,

I told you the fight for the Catholic vote theory held water. Here you go. Read on!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080824/ap_o...

-- Posted by Proud_Democrat on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 2:41 PM

Semoangle,

You are right if you serve alcohol to a minor or someone under 21 you can get in trouble for it even if it is in your home.

Twiggy

-- Posted by Aggiefan/Twiggy on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 2:51 PM

Twiggy

and not only with the cops you will alos have DFS knocking at your door as well.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 3:00 PM

Yes, it's to bad DFS doesn't go after more parents that actually do abuse or mistreat their children. I have seen them to many times go after the wrong person because they are an easy target.

Twiggy

-- Posted by Aggiefan/Twiggy on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 3:04 PM

Many years ago when my neices were small my mother finally broke down and called DFS on her. She lived in a dump of a house that was filthy, no food in the house and I mean no food, no electric. My mom or I went down at least three times a week to get them out of there for the night, get their clothes cleaned a bath etc. When DFS went into the house they found nothing wrong. The case worker told my mom many people lived in poor conditions it wasn't a crime and not having electric wasn't because it wasn't needed for life and no food in the house wasn't an issue because they ate two meals at school. She then told my mother the only way they could do anything was if we stopped making sure they had clean clothes, food on the weekend etc. I lost respect for them then and now all you have to do is breath wrong and they try to take your kids.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 3:12 PM

Who me

I am not democrat or republican but I can see things are harder now than say 5 years ago. Bush is not one of my favorite people but this mess I don't think we can blame all on him. To many people have been living above their means for along time and when you do that it will catch up to you sooner or later.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 3:15 PM

semoangel and Twiggy

[edit] Drinking age

Missouri's drinking age has been 21 since 1945.[65] That is, Missouri law prohibits minors from possessing or purchasing alcohol. Thus, when the National Minimum Drinking Age Act of 1984 came into effect on January 1, 1985, Missouri was in no danger of losing federal highway funds.

A minor in possession (MIP) of alcohol or a business or person which furnishes alcohol to a minor is guilty of a misdemeanor, although for sellers there are numerous defenses and exceptions.[66] Missouri is one of six states, however, with a unique exception which allows a minor to be furnished alcohol by his or her parent or guardian.[66] Of course, if a parent or guardian purposefully intoxicated his or her child, it would be a form of child abuse. Rather, this sort of law allows parents to let their children have a small amount of liquor with a meal, at social gatherings, in religious services, or otherwise use alcohol in moderation. Additionally, although Missouri prohibits minors from possessing or purchasing alcohol, it is one of twenty states (and the District of Columbia) which have no specific law prohibiting the consumption of alcohol by minors.

-- Posted by BABE on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 3:24 PM

babe

read through the court cases. There have been parents in Cape even charged because they supplied beer to their child. My own father got a ticket for it in 1983 when he allowed my sister to drink at home and someone called the cops. Might be on the law book but somehow they charged them with it.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 3:28 PM

babe

read through the court cases. There have been parents in Cape even charged because they supplied beer to their child. My own father got a ticket for it in 1983 when he allowed my sister to drink at home and someone called the cops. Might be on the law book but somehow they charged them with it.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 3:29 PM

Yes I have been told that you can and will get in trouble for letting an under age drink person drink, even if it's in the privacy of your own home. I have seen it and read about it, so if it's not a law then why do people get in trouble for it?

Twiggy

-- Posted by Aggiefan/Twiggy on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 3:32 PM

C-Babe:

Ooops, sorry. I've been goofin'/messin' so much I missed your how-to post until after I finally figured it all out. Thanks anyway. And you too, Mel.

Oh, and by the way. Since the ugly and futile goat-rope about infanticide for convenience & political expediency is still floating around the unflushed bog, I see you invoked the CINO acronym that I played with a week or so ago for the argument. Just kinda-sorta asking here. In my lexicon of DES-approved acromyms/labels/abbrevs/"name-calling" etc that everyone seems to love so much (especially lefties!), I believe I explained that I use CINO as an interchangeable tag denoting both pseudo-Catholics AND Christians alike. Would you agree, disagree, or just generally have a melt-down with such uses of CINO...especially when nailing said CINOs who embrace the concept of abortions on demand?

Just wondering, not meaning to cause any trouble (heh, heh!) because I might have some other goodies I'm pondering, about trying out here in the bog. If nothing else, I'm getting in a little fun practicing with these "pretty-writing" methods. "Other than that, Mrs Lincoln, avoid the theater if minor annoyances bother you!! Burma Shave!

-- Posted by Herr_Hauptmann_DES on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 3:34 PM

semoangel

I don't know why your family is subjected to unlawful charges ie open container law and now this antedotal information. Perhaps you need a good attorney on retainer.

But to be fair, I did call the Cape police department just for grins. The little 'chief' on duty told me the very same as you did although he did say 'in my opinion'. I'm beginning to think the police should skip SWAT training and take remedial courses in Missouri and municipal laws.

-- Posted by BABE on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 3:40 PM

Like Babe said, Missouri's drinking law has been 21 since 1945. But until I was 12 or 13 a child could legally drink when accompanied by an adult who was 21 in any establishment that sold beer. My grandfather used to take my brother and me to a bar located in Advance to drink a beer. I forgot at what age, but the bartender said that he could no longer serve my brother and me beer.

Raised as a Catholic, beer was as common as milk at our house and we had dairy cows.

-- Posted by BCStoned on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 3:59 PM

Twiggy

It is unlawful to furnish alcohol to minors other than your own children even in your own home. But it is legal to allow your own children to partake if not abusive ie intoxication or poisoning.

I have always allowed my grand children to have a wineglass at their place setting at all holiday dinners I have cooked. They can choose to turn the wineglass over and receive maybe two sips of wine. Mostly they just said 'ugh' and began to eat. But I think it's important for them to learn that drinking is not a taboo and forbidden thrill.

Do you realize that the pioneers to our country drank only beer as a beverage and their children drank it watered down? Many cultures routinely serve their children wine at meals. Even Cajuns can take their kids into a bar usually while waiting for a table at a restaurant. They can order a 'tee beer' for them which is just a sip of beer in a very small glass.

I dislike the bible belt mentality that alcohol is the demon.

-- Posted by BABE on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 4:04 PM

Rudy posted an interesting article today: Knudtson Tears Into Purcell.

-- Posted by Proud_Democrat on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 4:11 PM

Herr

Yes, I suppose that one could use CINO for both Catholics and christians. But do remember that Catholics are christians, too.

-- Posted by BABE on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 4:13 PM

That's a very LIBERAL comment. Liberals always preach to folks what they should be in feeling, studying, reading, eating, child rearing, driving et al.

-- Posted by BABE on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, 12:23 pm CDT

After reading your description of Liberals, Babe, I must say I am glad you have finally made the move. I mean, could you have described yourself any better?

Who me....

Uneducated Democrats? Really.....shall we compare degrees, GPAs, wisdom, service etc. Sometimes you would be much more respected if you could think first!

-- Posted by Theorist on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 4:15 PM

Personally I see nothing wrong with a kid taking a sip of wine as babe said on special occassions but to allow a child to drink is stupid. Do you realize that 1 beer would cause a child to blow over the legal adult limit on a breathalizer. A 100 pound person will be drunk legally drunk after 1 beer.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 4:25 PM

"Wow new posters or at least names. It is still the same cut and paste attempts by typical uneducated Democrats."

Who me, you're one to talk. I have yet to see you post or explain ONE fact supporting your arguments. You arguments are based upon assumption, and whatever you here your GOD Neal Boortz say. Credible sources? Reliable sources?? You post a "tangible" source; I'll call it republican bias. An uneducated person is someone who is illiterate, unschooled, or untaught. An acceptable synonym for uneducated is also unenlightened.

Unenlightened folks are usually those who do not accept "possibilities" and go along with the flow, or whatever someone else tells them to think. ******* your political high horse and stop stretching the already growing gap between liberal and conservative forces in this room. You're in construction...right? Have you ever thought about building a bridge to shorten your gaps social political exchange? Argue your points; let John McCain do the personal attacks.

If you have any experience in political elections, you know Democrats rally together in the end. That being said, antagonized and infuriated Democrats rally together harder, quicker, and faster. Antagonizing may just solidify the McCain defeat in November. I'd temper my remarks, and play nice. You might gain a McCain vote that way.

-- Posted by Proud_Democrat on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 4:33 PM

Me'Lange

Alcoholism is a hard topic to find straight info on. Some say it is hereditary, as I feel it is grandpa was one then my father and now my sister, but the next study you read will tell you it isn't it is a matter of having an addictive personality. The main thing is not every one who drinks has a problem but some do, not all are abusive because of it but some are. It doesn't affect all the same way. We, as you know, are Catholic and at wedding receptions all of the kids have always had a bit of champagne in a glass when the toast are made but other than that I am not going to provide it for my kids. I can see how some would feel they would rather them drink at home though than out with friends.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 4:41 PM

Me]Lange

Another very LIBERAL comment. giggle

Honestly, have a very difficult time staying out of other folks business when I see this happening on a regular basis.

-- Posted by Me'Lange on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, 3:18 pm CDT

-- Posted by BABE on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 4:41 PM

Me Lange,

I enjoyed your post that created a great likeness to a MJB small novel (Wink). Breaking down the Websters version of a Conservative and Liberal. But unlike MJB's postings, I read yours. Picking and choosing the one in which resemble, I like number six "Preservative."

I am far from one who really cares to change anyone's views. I don't care because I know it is left to those who do than talk about doing. I hate the fact that we argue day in and day out about people on both sides who really don't care about us, but will have the appearance of giving two sh*ts. Just give us "More Please." (My best Oliver Twist twang) And we will fall in line.

We are numbers, stats, and polls to them. I just think we need another revolution. Because it is only our own self whom we have to answer to at the end of the day. And the Almighty.

Even though I choose to preserve, protect my way of life, and the status quo...a little anarchy is nice to throw into the mix from time to time.

"Let them eat cake!" I relish in the fact that Washington, ALL of Washington is treating us this way. So sharpen your axes and wrap your torches.

-- Posted by fajar154 on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 4:50 PM

Fajar,

If you plan on answering to the almighty, you might want to review the 10 commandments before picking up the torches and axes. Just a thought....(albeit a liberal one)

-- Posted by Theorist on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 4:57 PM

C-Babe:

You're right about that, just a matter of practice, etc; and I do remember...can't hardly forget. I was a bit confused as a "leedle kid", 'cause Mom was raised as a Catholic (they got to sample a lot of beer at the local brewery as kids...no problem there!), but Dad was Protestant. So, we kids got a sample of both, even a tour of duty for 2nd/3d grade in a Catholic school. OUCH!! Them Sgt-Major type nuns were brutal with the discipline!

Anyway, I opted out of the Catholic route long before the murderous abortion thing ever became an issue. I suppose I thought there was too much useless or confusing ritual/idolatry action rather than just getting right on in there with The Man, through Jesus...perhaps I just prefer KISS methods, like the unvarnished Word...have a hard enough time just abiding by that, not to mention a bunch of other rules & regs, donchaknow! Gotta admit, however, I sure did enjoy all them school holidays for various saints, etc!!

I suppose my bottom line, as a personal opinion (no offense to anyone who disagrees - but I don't plan to "change"), for this whole abortion mess is that I regard both Christians & Catholics as hypocritical CINOs if they embrace infanticide (except for possible rare occasions), especially as a plank in any political party. Then again, I can see similar purposes for the socialist agenda in their other strategies too...like "gay rights/marriage"; no need for the nuclear family with those folks.

-- Posted by Herr_Hauptmann_DES on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 4:59 PM

Here is a great article about "Liberal" and it being a bad word.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news...

-- Posted by Proud_Democrat on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 5:20 PM

What it boils down to, is why so many people want to interfere in other people's lives. There are two statements that libertarians make that I totally agree with. Do no harm and whatever is peaceful. What the heck is to you if someone gives their children wine or beer? What the heck is it to politicians and government if you still have and ounce of freedom left?

-- Posted by BCStoned on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 5:24 PM

MeLange

Why is it always an IF with LIBERALS ? Must they always negatively think of life as a great pool of gloom and doom?

-- Posted by BABE on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 5:46 PM

Me]Lange

I am dealing with it, thank you. Why are you so ashamed of being called a LIBERAL ? I am proud to be called a Conservative.

-- Posted by BABE on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 5:53 PM

HIlleco,

"Do no harm and whatever is peaceful." I truly like that....but I think you are being selective. If I disagree with someone based on my opinion, then yes, maybe peace would best be served by my silence. But, if I disagree with someone because it might cause harm, then if I do not speak up, I am negligent to society.

I have on occasion felt it necessary to present a different point of view for clarification or as an alternative. Sometimes I feel compelled to "shake" up the world of "close minded" individuals. I know I will not change their mind, but I feel it is important for others reading this column to experience or be aware of another view.

Do I make mistakes? Undoubtedly so, but I will admit them when I am educated to them, unlike some of the other participants of this forum.

-- Posted by Theorist on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 5:53 PM

Babe,

I have a feeling other posters on here would rather you didn't identify your self as a conservative.....laughing

-- Posted by Theorist on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 5:55 PM

MeLange

You really should jump into the big pond of www.freerepublic.com. But you know what they say of 'little fishes'. giggle

-- Posted by BABE on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 5:58 PM

Just throw this out there.

Society is telling parents we are not doing the right thing by our kids. We quit spanking because it was bad and now you should spank because kids are out of control. We aren't involved in our kids education and allow them to much freedom after school because both parents are working to make ends meet but we are an ok parent if we go buy a six pack and hand a couple to junior and tell him go ahead and drink away. I know it doesn't take much to confuse me on a good day much less bad ones like the last few days but this throws me.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 6:08 PM

Wow! I can't wait for the "formal" Dem-soc Party's (un)convention(al) *******-whoopin', greased goat-rope to get started. I think there will be a bunch more stuff to watch there than any action movies on TV. Even now, the unwashed and "unlovely" CCCLs are starting to riot in the streets. And can ya believe it, most of the nuts in this herd are a basic voting block of the Dem-soc Party! So much for the myth of socialist love-fests, similar to what we saw in the primaries. To heck with the Repub/RINO convention...it'll be a snoozer compared to this.

What do they call it, the Denver GITMO for those oversized kennels they've set up to jail these weirdos in? I've even heard the Dem-soc party planners have even hired a special compliment of thugs to patrol around the convention floor to keep all the crazies under control. I suppose that's some of the consequences the noxious B.O. will have to deal with for torquing off my favorite Stalinist in a pantsuit, Hitlery. The whole week promises to provide more entertainment than girls' roller derby! Let the "can't-we-all-just-get-along" games begin!!!

-- Posted by Herr_Hauptmann_DES on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 6:14 PM

MeLange

So you won't read my posts or comment? Good....another LIBERAL bites the dust. giggle

-- Posted by BABE on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 6:18 PM

BABE,

Kind of like you won't reply to my posts? At least MeLange has acted out of maturity and wisdom. You pout when someone else "gets the better of you".....LMAO

-- Posted by Theorist on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 6:22 PM

Herr

Did you hear that Obama introduced Biden in the rally in Springfield as the 'next president of the United States'? Evidently he knows his personality well. Then Biden, in his speech, called Obama 'Barrak America'. I am looking forward to watching the circus. giggle

-- Posted by BABE on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 6:26 PM

Me'LangeProbably not a good time but was just trying to show that the things people are called lax parents for are what is getting them in trouble but some think giving them beer is ok. Guess I should have said why is it ok to allow a child to drink but ban them from certain foods because the food is bad for them. Does that make more sense I hope so but my mind is all fuddled

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 6:26 PM

Me'Lange

and by the way hope all is well with Pups, please let him know that he is missed.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 6:28 PM

Yes Melange, when you see or hear from Pups, tell him he is missed, and hello for us.

Twiggy

-- Posted by Aggiefan/Twiggy on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 6:32 PM

Theorist; I don't think that Me'Lange understood my post. If I lived in France my children would probably take wine to school to drink at lunch with their meal. As long as no harm is done, you right wing fascists should have no say. You can imagine any harm that you wish, but there has to be real harm. Me'Lange, you are not a right wing fascist, so why the puritan response to what I posted?

-- Posted by BCStoned on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 6:37 PM

C-Babe:

Yup, I saw both gaffs...and much more to come, especially when the B.O.'s handlers let him off their teleprompter leashes!! I wonder. Could referring to "the Ointmented One" as "Barrak America" actually be considered, er, un-American or somethin'?!

But, hey, keep an eye on those CCCL riots in Denver, 'cause they can be a real, well, riot to watch!! This week is gonna be a scream!

-- Posted by Herr_Hauptmann_DES on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 6:39 PM

I miss Pups, too, as I think he is a real gentleman. But if he is going off to pout because he doesn't like the liberal/conservative labels on this forum, he needs to run with the big dogs or stay under the porch. giggle

-- Posted by BABE on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 6:40 PM

Wow Hilleco!

Are you saying I am a right wing fascist? Wonder what Babe would say to that (if she could speak that is)!

-- Posted by Theorist on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 6:42 PM

MeLange,

Things are going alright, Aggie is working again today. He hasn't been home much since Tuesday so he's tired. Just about got all the unpacking done, need a few things moved around before I can finish all of it. Of course it helps alot being able to talk on the phone and computer to family and friends. Thanks for asking, hope you are doing well also.

Twiggy

-- Posted by Aggiefan/Twiggy on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 6:44 PM

Babe

You really need to get a life and quit trying to be such a witch. In the time I have been coming on to this forum I have seen you personally offend more posters than all the others combined as well as you taking low, personal attacks on people. Me'Lange has defended you on more than one occassion and now you attack her as well. I have at times supported some of your views and opinions but you are starting to get out of hand with the attacks.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 6:46 PM

Herr,

Why wait? When you find our wonderful and esteemed President making wonderful speaking "mistakes" daily.

"First of all, I don't see America having problems." --George W. Bush, interview with Bob Costas at the 2008 Olympics, Beijing, China, Aug. 10, 2008

I can go on and on with this....laughing.....but I won't because we all make mistakes.

-- Posted by Theorist on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 6:47 PM

Ok...just one more because it is funny, and I can't resist!

"Amigo! Amigo!" --George W. Bush, calling out to Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi in Spanish at the G-8 Summit, Rusutsu, Japan, July 10, 2008

Enjoy!

-- Posted by Theorist on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 6:51 PM

Me'Lange: In this area, we don't stick our nose in everybody's business. If my neighbor gives his children a glass of wine for dinner, it has nothing to do with me. If people in Cape want to mind everybody's business but their own, that's fine with me, but not around here.

-- Posted by BCStoned on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 6:54 PM

semoangel

If MeLange or you think that being called a LIBERAL is a personal attack then yall have problems of being ashamed of the word.

-- Posted by BABE on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 7:00 PM

Me'Lange

It isn't just the matter of the liberal debate with me. I do not claim to be either one, but all the attacks on Nickey that were uncalled for as well as other posters as well. Enough is enough. Funny everyone else gets banned and she just keeps getting by with it. Ignoring her doesn't work, several of us tried that but once again I will go back to scrolling past her points as well.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 7:05 PM

Hilleco

The way I am taking your post is not as much as you condone parents letting their kids drink but that as a parent it should be your choice and not someone else's. If that is the correct interpretation then I agree with what you are saying. I am not going to allow my child to drink but as a parent in my home I feel it should be my call to make based on correct information and not what everyone else does.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 7:08 PM

MeLange

Feelings are not laws. Feelings are a LIBERAL nuance.

-- Posted by BABE on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 7:10 PM

Theorist:

Because after watching rabid leftists slimming, as an idiot, and worse, our current Pres. on about everything he says or does, it's quite refreshing to watch the media-annointed ONE babble like a blithering idiot when he doesn't have the benefit of his canned teleprompter talking points.

Come to think of it. If Pres. Bush is anywhere near as stupid as folks like you imply he is or, maybe even dumber than the dumbest of us in this bog, then, why isn't he joining us in this bog? Hmmmm? My implication here is that he's achieved more beyond anything any of us here are capable of even dreaming about...otherwise, we wouldn't be here now, would we?

Now that I'm having fun, can you nail down anything, repeat, ANYTHING of worth the "great" mulatto Marxian Mohamed has accomplished...that he hasn't already lied about? If so, go for it...TIME'S UP!

-- Posted by Herr_Hauptmann_DES on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 7:11 PM

“Run with the big dogs or stay on the porch.”

While there certainly may be merit to that statement, some of us don’t like to run with the big dogs, but do like the opportunity to express an opinion without being attacked. I do not feel that someone’s opinion is only valid if he/she has multiple degrees and a high GPA. I have known such people who could not survive a heavy rain as they didn’t know enough to get out of it and I have known some very intelligent, successful and wealthy individuals who did not finish high school. There are posters on here who are thick skinned or whatever you choose to call it and who do enjoy a “vigorous debate”, we all know who they are and I too enjoy reading the exchanges of these people. There are also others who enjoy a more “civil discourse”. Then there are those who are more difficult to categorize as they seem to change from one day to the next, so it is often hard to know how to engage them as what might be alright one day is not the next. I have said before that I enjoy Pup’s posts though we are on opposite side of the political spectrum and hopes he returns, but no one’s participation should be dictated by anyone else. As for me, if it gets too hot, I am going to get out of Dodge. We all have the choice to disengage at any time.

Kids and drinking: I dealt with alcoholics all of my professional career and had them in my own family. I have been to more training than I can remember and regularly liaised with substance abuse counselors and families. I found that the more I “learned”, the less I seemed to “know” about how someone becomes an alcoholic.

-- Posted by Red_Rhino on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 7:13 PM

Red

Well said

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 7:15 PM

Red

Pups chose to leave this forum because he disliked the liberal/conservative labels in discussions on this forum. In my opinion, he is trying to make this forum into a yahoo chat room of his design or else leave and pout.

Red, yes, we all have the opportunity to leave at anytime but I will not apoligise for my views to pamper a poster here. If I'm banned, that will be it for me.

-- Posted by BABE on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 7:32 PM

Herr...y

Don't put words in my mouth that I did not say. Never did I say he was stupid, and never would I presume to say anything like that. I am merely pointing out (and accurately so), that everyone, including the President of the United States, makes speaking errors.

FYI, YOU made one just then by reading the wrong thing between the lines. You and BABE are way to much on the attack these days. I "think", and this is my opinion only, that you are feeling like you are losing the race, and it is natural to try to bring down the leader. Again, just my opinion, but you definitely misspoke earlier.

-- Posted by Theorist on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 7:47 PM

..change my ID , come back , and raise all kinds of

hell is my motto ..BABE , u frequent yahoo chat rooms?

what are they like ?

-- Posted by ..Rick on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 7:50 PM

I get so tired of hearing Liberal this and Conservative that, Blue State this and Red State that. The civil war ended in 1865 and I believe some people around here are still fighting it. This is the United States of America and the 21st century. UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL

-- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 7:55 PM

Babe,

Yes, he chose to leave and I hope he chooses to come back. We don't know what is going on in anyone's life at any given time and this may have played a part in his departure. I do not see Pups as being a pouter or wanting special treatment.

Unlike others on here, I do not particularly find your postings offensive or objectionable, you are what you are and we can all choose whether or not to respond. I do not want to see you banned as this should be the result of profanity or threats and not opinions. ChaffeeMP, whom I often found very offensive, but at times interesting said in effect that people bother us only to the extent that we allow them to. If I find anyone's posts to me, I hope I am able to "let it go" and not become involved in an unpleasant back and forth which accomplishes nothing. Some truly seem to like this and for those who do, have at it. I think we are all at times guilty of taking this forum and what others say too seriously.

-- Posted by Red_Rhino on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 7:58 PM

Swampeast,

You are correct.

I just get so aggravated when some act pompous, arrogant and pretentious, that I forget we are supposed to be citizens of the UNITED States of America. I am merely human....sigh

-- Posted by Theorist on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 8:03 PM

UNDERLINING?

You all may have addressed this, but what the heck happened to the forum that caused all the early morning posts to be underlined? I posted, it was normal. Then, in checking my earlier posts, my posts, and those of serval that were sans underline earlier, are now underlined. Sure makes it harder to read, when the entire post is underlined.

-- Posted by Robert Goodbody on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 8:04 PM

Twiggy's Grandchildren

Thank you for being candid about your grandchildren. I am always concerned when schools advocate drugging children. It seems to happen all too frequently, and that causes me to wonder what is so different that would cause this, when it didn't seem that there was a major disruption problem in school when we were kids.

-- Posted by Robert Goodbody on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 8:08 PM

Mr Goodbody

MeLange did not close her underline post and then threw all previous posts to underline.

-- Posted by BABE on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 8:10 PM

I don't want Babe banned. I have only been a poster for about 6 months or so, and I can't recall her ever making a physical threat. I love opposing opinions. Babe has tried to give me a hard time before, but I let it roll off my back like water off of a duck. We need tenacious people in America. The people of this country have been domesticated and have become indifferent and docile. I like fighters whether I agree with them or not.

When I can read people who disagree with me I am encouraged because we still have some freedom of speech. One of these days when Internet II is introduced, that may not be the case. The corporate bigwigs are looking for ways to silence dissent and Internet II is a way to do it. If you don't know about this educate yourself quickly. ( this is not a conspiracy theory Babe )The INTERNET has been a tool for us to bypass the filtered propaganda of all of the major news media. The people who want to control all thought are getting nervous. Because of the Patriot Act, the mechanism is in place to shut off dissent if the president decides.

Many years ago I was an obstinate Limbaugh listening Republican too until I saw the light so to speak. No God forbid I didn't become a liberal either.I believe both major parties are a sham to make the people feel like they have a choice. Our major government officials are chosen for us IMO and we just go through the 4 year ritual and always get what we have always gotten. H.osed.

-- Posted by Thought Criminal on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 8:15 PM

ATTENTION Not much for fun-n-games with this post - wise up!

Dang it! I've been having so much fun goofing off, I've not even had the chance to weigh in about the big-time commie-inspired union love-fest in town this weekend. And I'm having more tech proplems, because the page the article is on (about the AFL-CIO toad) won't let me log in to comment. So I suppose I can play with it here.

First and foremost. I don't believe that all unions are corrupt and/or commie-inspired, if not controlled. But I sure as hell do when it comes to the AFL-CIO and the thug boss "left"-hand man for John Sweeney coming to town. Uncle Karl (Marx that is) would be so proud, per his "best seller" of these unions as collective useful idiots for destroying capitalism. I keep getting mixed up about which one it was, I think the CIO, that was founded by communists (even guided from the Kremlin) I read about, with directions to take over the AFL and jointly destroy American capitalism.

And this Sweeney guy, I haven't even thought about him for a long time...assumed he took to "cement shoe dip" long ago. But he's a good example of union socialist thuggery. It was in this very paper (I still have it) that John Sweeney is (or maybe was, at this point) a member of the Democratic Socialists of America, which I have no doubt was or still is in bed with the Communist Party USA - which, by the way, I understand Mrs. FDR was a proud member of, per an NRA article - so, therefore, maybe some of you can get a clue where I got the idea for the Dem-soc moniker for said party! Well, I'd rather use the official DES acronym identifier for the same if I can get permission to do so...but that's another project.

Anyway, what these clowns are doing in town, with the annoying B.O.'s blessings I might add, is trying to push that deadly "Emplyee Free Choice Act" scam, where union thugs can come in and "force" unionization through intimidation, because there WOULD NOT be secret ballots allowed. And I say "deadly" too, because that's a prediction I think I can accurately make if this nonsense comes to pass...which it will through a Dem-soc Politburo (formerly known as Congress) and not-so-White House (will probably be painted pink-o). I know if they start trying to intimidate (specially in a physical way) any of my loved ones or friends at work, I'll not hesitate to join the fray!!!

Sorry to suddenly lose the jocularity, folks. But you'd best start thinking in a deadly-serious way about what some imbeciles are really trying to do in this country. And before some of you jokers try to take a cheap shot regarding this issue, yes, I've also had personal experiences in dealing up-close with rabid union thugs. Again, I do not, repeat, do not regard all unions as radical or communist-inspired entities; however, most of the large ones, especially the AFL/CIO, you'd better take a close look at. Read the article and the comments of those who could post them. No Burma Shave here. Herr out.

-- Posted by Herr_Hauptmann_DES on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 8:17 PM

I don't mind seeing a discussion...even heated, but the goading is not necessary (IMO). Picking on someone just to annoy is immature (IMO). There are several on here that I just pass on by and that is pretty easy to do. I read often and do miss some of the folks who used to post, but I certainly understand. I enjoy seeing various points of view and a willingness on both to at least respect the others point (even though they disagree w/o pulling out tired old labels and most are able to do this).

-- Posted by concerned4all on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 8:17 PM

Me'Lange,

That's why I posted it from Free Republic. I was surprising shocked they allowed such an atrocity.

-- Posted by Proud_Democrat on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 8:19 PM

I have a great idea, I would really be interested in hearing from the "elephant's mouth" what the true definition of being a conservative is. Can one of you educated "true" blue blood conservatives PLEASE give me your definition of what a conservative is, and what views a conservative has?

Babe?

Herr?

Fajar?

Who Me?

and any other (TRUE CONSERVATIVES) that wish to answer.

Come on now, here is your chance to set the record and tell us uneducated liberals the defintion of what a TRUE 100% Conservative is, and what stances they take on what issues. NO cut and paste now, I want it in your own words. I've issued the challenge, now...are you Conservative enough to take it?? Here's where we separate the men from the mice boys and girls!

-- Posted by Proud_Democrat on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 8:28 PM

Me'lange, you said, "Don't you think we should teach children to respect ALL laws, even IF they disagree with them?"

If we respected all laws we'd still be under English rule. No, No, No, the best is always to question authority and question law. Sorry, I'm not going to just teach my children to hand over their free will. There are laws still on the books that actually inhibit lifestyle choices and freewill. If these laws aren't or wouldn't be broken, we might not be as accepting of these life styles as we are today.

Here an interesting and philosophical approach to this subject. It may not support my arguement, but it's interesting to say the least.

http://www.smith.edu/philosophy/mbesmith...

-- Posted by Proud_Democrat on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 8:42 PM

Doctor

A true conservative takes responsibility and consequences for his actions and choices in life.

I remember when I crossed the line to conservatism very well. I was watching a liberal rally on c-span many years ago. A young woman came on the stage to tell us that she needed to stay home with her three children and shouldn't have to work. The father of her children (boyfriend) was in prison for the second time. Well, she ended her arrogant lament by saying "pay me now or pay me later". I thought to myself "why should I have to pay this ***** anything"? She made the choice to choose a looser as a father to her children and she should be held responsible.

-- Posted by BABE on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 8:49 PM

Theorist, I enjoyed the post that you bequeathed upon Herr. He ohh so often escapes persecution for his flippant and deprecating remarks.

-- Posted by Proud_Democrat on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 8:51 PM

Doctor..

Well, thanks for reading my post. It seems I am invisible to everyone else, for they rarely acknowledge my words. Sometimes I wonder if I am posting in Latin.

-- Posted by Theorist on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 8:56 PM

Babe, so you said, "A true conservative takes responsibility and consequences for his actions and choices in life."

Ok, do you mean for example like Senator Larry Craig? He's a conservative right? If not, can you give me examples of these "TRUE 100% Conservative, non-liberal types? Also, what is a conservative stance? What stances added together make one a conservative? Please, I'm really intrigued.

-- Posted by Proud_Democrat on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 8:57 PM

Me'lange, I need to know...Do you take responsibility and consequences for your actions and choices in life? That's what babe says is a sign of being a true Conservative.

-- Posted by Proud_Democrat on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 8:59 PM

Doctor

I don't chew my fat twice.

-- Posted by BABE on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 9:00 PM

"Doctor

I don't chew my fat twice."

-- Posted by BABE on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, 8:00 pm CDT

Babe is this another characteristic of a true conservative?? I am really really confused now. I wished Herr, Fajar, and all the other Conservatives could tell me what a TRUE 100% Blue Blooded Conservative is, and what stances they take in order to be considered a TRUE 100% Blue Blooded Conservative.

-- Posted by Proud_Democrat on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 9:04 PM

Theorist - I also read your posts and agree with many of them.

Doctor - Funny that you mentioned Larry Craig and conservative stance together. I understood Craig had a "wide stance". Is that the same thing? j/k LOL

-- Posted by concerned4all on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 9:05 PM

"Doctor

A true conservative takes responsibility and consequences for his actions and choices in life."

-- Posted by BABE on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, 7:49 pm CDT

Babe can you give me some examples of these conservatives? Maybe some prominent names?

-- Posted by Proud_Democrat on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 9:06 PM

"Doctor

A true conservative takes responsibility and consequences for his actions and choices in life."

-- Posted by BABE on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, 7:49 pm CDT

OMG - I'm a conservative!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- Posted by concerned4all on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 9:09 PM

suelynn, I'm just trying to figure out what it takes to be a conservative. You know, what a TRUE conservative is. Seem's no one has the answer. Babe's trying, but failing.

-- Posted by Proud_Democrat on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 9:09 PM

Suelynn, Dexterite, and Theorist, Do you take responsibility and consequences for your actions and choices in life?

-- Posted by Proud_Democrat on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 9:11 PM

One of the best lines in the link provided by The_Doctor in the post of 1942:

"Philosophy is difficult reading, and few have either time or inclination to wade through it." Perhaps acknowledging the M-TV soundbite attitude and attention spans of many.

My basic, off-the-cuff thought - be it deemed conservative or liberal, and feeling that I'm bringing only a pointed finger to a well-versed and informed gunfight - is do whatever the flippin' H you want - just leave me, my faith, and my checkbook out of it. I'll cover myself and mine, and am more than willing to suffer the consequences or enjoy the benefits of my efforts.

-- Posted by fxpwt on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 9:12 PM

Theorist,

I confess I also read your post, just don't always comment.

Twiggy

-- Posted by Aggiefan/Twiggy on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 9:12 PM

Hey Doc, I know you are trying to get an answer...I just don't think you'll get it here.

Did you see that I'm a conservative too...I just found out. I had to sit down...I may have to take a nap.

-- Posted by concerned4all on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 9:13 PM

suelynn, Congratulations! According to Babe, then I must too also be a Conservative. Can we hold heads high now? Are we walking among the elite?

-- Posted by Proud_Democrat on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 9:13 PM

I take responsibility and acknowledge the consequences of my actions, but I dare say BABE would classify me as a true conservative....Laughing

-- Posted by Theorist on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 9:15 PM

I must have all the answers too. We have all been elevated and gosh...someone needs to tell Melange and Pups. I guess I'll have to sleep with my gun now!

-- Posted by concerned4all on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 9:19 PM

Oh Theorist, you too are a conservative. According to Babe now, Suelynn, you and myself are conservatives.

Suelynn, why....I understand their hesitance to answer the question, they may find in the awfulness of truth, that they are actually liberal.

Come on now, where are the rest of you EDUCATED Conservatives? Surely Babe isn't the only one qualified to answer and define what a TRUE 100% Conservative is, and what stances they have. Come on now...answer up!

-- Posted by Proud_Democrat on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 9:19 PM

Babe never mentioned a gun, she just said, "A true conservative takes responsibility and consequences for his actions and choices in life."

Aww....why are all of the "so called" conservatives disappearing? This really isn't a hard question. They should be able to peck off all the traits of a true conservative in their sleep.

-- Posted by Proud_Democrat on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 9:22 PM

Oh darn...I thought all conservatives slept with their guns (and I meant that in the purest way). You are correct though, Babe didn't say that was a requirement. Still, I am a true conservative according to the definition provided.

-- Posted by concerned4all on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 9:27 PM

I must Admit that this is not mine I just pasted it!!

I dont even how much truth there is to it I just enjoy watching you guys sling mud.

Let the games begin!!

Working toward a

United "Socialist Republic" of America If you had to guess who said, "It's glorious to be rich," would you pick (a) a long-dead Communist dictator, or (b) the man most likely to be our next President?

Most people would choose "b," of course -- if only because "a" seemed so unlikely. But they'd be wrong.

It was Deng Xiaoping, successor to Mao Tse Tung, who authored that statement -- which is quoted more often in booming China today than anything in Mao's Little Red Book.

But here's the real irony...

Not only is that statement surprising coming from a Communist, it's simply unthinkable coming from Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama.

After all, Obama's rhetoric and record make it all too clear that he views being rich not as "glorious," but as evidence of "unfairness" -- which he proposes to remedy through big-government redistribution schemes paid for by higher taxes.

Those two facts -- the trend away from economic freedom in America, and toward economic freedom elsewhere in the world -- speak volumes about the future of the global economy.

If Barack Obama is elected President, as almost all the polls and experts are predicting, the consequences for taxpayers will be enormous.

What Obamanomics Will Mean

Make no mistake: All other issues aside, when it comes to the economy Barack Obama is a throwback to big-government liberals like FDR, LBJ and Jimmy Carter.

His new spending proposals alone -- on health care and "green" energy, for instance -- would add an estimated $800 million to the federal budget.

As for the tax hikes to pay for all this, Steve Moore of the Wall Street Journal calculates that the Obama tax plan adds up to a 39.6% personal income tax, a 52.2% combined income and payroll tax, a 28% capital-gains tax, a 39.6% dividends tax, and a 55% estate tax.

And remember: Obama and his fellow Democrats -- who are likely to enjoy strengthened majorities in Congress come November -- don't have to do anything for these tax hikes to take effect. They simply have to allow the Bush tax cuts to expire on schedule, as they have promised to do.

My friends, you can't have capitalism without capital.

Yet, Obama wants to penalize capital, individual and corporations.

The bottom line? If he's elected, Barack Obama would no doubt lead the nation toward the kind of socialism now operating in Western Europe -- where production and growth can be charitably described as stagnant.

And that's bad news for American business.

And that's definitely bad news for all Americans.

If Obama is elected it will be the end of our growing economy.

-- Posted by Silent_Bob on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 9:27 PM

Re: SpeakOut culture

Would be interested to understand how many taxpayers were involved with the costs of financing this fine-arts center, versus how many taxpayers are enjoying the benefits?

Trying to be open-minded but have the 'doubting Thomas' view - pleasing to the eye, makes the University more attractive to those students in those majors, offers entertainment venues that may not otherwise appear locally - but what is the value placed on these benefits versus the out-of-somebodys-pockets costs? Is there a financial assessment available for review?

-- Posted by fxpwt on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 9:35 PM

Who Me, can you please answer my question and tell me what a TRUE 100% Conservative is, and what the views and stances are that suffice to create the formula of a TRUE Conservative?

-- Posted by Proud_Democrat on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 9:37 PM

Re: Casinos good for business

Not having to wait on the lottery players would certainly increase the my personal 'convenience' aspect to many convenience 'got whatcha need'-type stores.

-- Posted by fxpwt on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 9:40 PM

The_Doctor

I consider myself a Patriot first. Conservative second. Republican third.

I believe that the money I make, is the money I keep. No matter who thinks how rich I am and what they believe to who much I deserve to keep. I worked for it, allow me to give to those I feel who need it.

I believe taxes should be less for the wealthy...unless you plan on going down on Goodhope(less) and getting a job.

I believe that when you say "Keep your government out of my bedroom." It should be the beginning and the end of the discussion. If you are gay or have a sl*tty lifestyle, then by your actions you contract a disease. Don't come to the government for a handout.

On the same line, I believe that marriage should be between a man and woman. Procreation and the like. Sticking a man's whoo whoo into another man's defication area is not normal to me. BUT! I am not one to interfer with their Pursuit of Happiness even if a whole state voted against the Gay Marriage thing only to be thrown out because of activist judges.

I believe that the military is there because it can. That being said. Get out of it's way when there are things to be done. Unless we need to return to my discussion of a happier way of killing the enemy.

I believe that B Hussain is a Socialist. That's why I won't vote for him. Since I've been called a racist because of my NO Bama stance, I'll just come out and say I won't vote for Obama because he's black. And Bidan is an idiot. There. Enjoy.

I believe abortion is killing. Throw out health of the mother BS. I know there are circumstances where it IS a necessary evil, but don't use it for your Super Argument. There are plenty of adoption ready couples (gay and straight) who can and will.

I believe that if abortion is a woman's Right to Choose, then prostitution should be legal. Beat that argument.

I believe in Capitol Punishment. But I think the families of the victims should have a say-so or even a hand in it.

I believe that ANY pedophiles should be put in GenPop. If the inmates can see the wrong in destroying a child's innocence then why not the courts? Also, I think the families should have hand in the punishment.

I believe in health care for children...thats right. I think that if some moms and dads who rather buy spinners for their SUV or a 52 inch flat screen complain about no healthcare, then at least the kids should get some help. Plus, if your on welfare and have a $40,000 SUV, you shouldn't be on welfare.

I believe that if your on Food Stamps you should go back to the actual stamps. Not this debit card so they're not embarrassed. These people are eating better than I.

I believe in limited terms for everyone in office. It will keep them legal maybe stuff will get done. And this retirement package for serving one term in Congress, GONE!

I believe adultary is wrong. I've lost a few friends because I cannot look them in face anymore. This "If it feels good, do it" mentality is another brick taken out of our Family Foundation. No one thinks of anyone else besides themselves. We've become so narcissist because that is who we have to look up to. What part of "Till death do us part" is open for change?

I believe that Hollywierd should be TAXED for their windfall profits (what is that phrase anyway). They brag about the MILLIONS they make, but if a company CEO makes any cash...burn them at the stake.

Doc, hope this helps. Sorry so long. Be back in a while. Got to run three miles.

-- Posted by fajar154 on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 9:46 PM

Babe said: "A true conservative takes responsibility and consequences for his actions and choices in life."

Me'Lange and the state takes responsibility and consequences for my actions and choices in life. There are laws, you know. Fact is, I doubt if Me'Lange and the state understands "do no harm" or "anything that's peaceful". You see, any state action is force and is not peaceful.

Following those rules should be enough laws for any civilized society. Any more is an attack on freedom and liberties.

-- Posted by BCStoned on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 9:47 PM

fajar154:

I believe in everything that you said!

I really do.

AS IF anyone cares!!

-- Posted by Silent_Bob on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 9:59 PM

Fajar,

I commend you on being honest. But, that is it. You are so wrapped up in "me and mine" that you have lost empathy for your fellow mankind. Perhaps a longer jog would do you well.

Someday you may need help and I hope for your sake you meet someone with more compassion than yourself.

-- Posted by Theorist on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 10:06 PM

Theorist:

It pretty cool that your so into helping others!!

Its a darn shame you don't have enough money to do it yourself.

If you did would you???

-- Posted by Silent_Bob on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 10:17 PM

I hope you are correct, for I don't see a future for the USA as a narcissistic society.

-- Posted by Theorist on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 10:21 PM

Theorist:

I'm a little short this week, if I come to your house will you give me half of your gasoline so I can be able to drive to the bar until my welfare check gets here on the 1st.

-- Posted by Silent_Bob on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 10:22 PM

I feel more selfish now and that is good (for me). Melange, I cannot give you a gun - you'll have to take it...I'm a conservative. It's me, me, me, don't cha know.

-- Posted by concerned4all on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 10:23 PM

Silent one...

There are many ways to help others and one doesn't have to be wealthy to develop a giving lifestyle. I am sure I could do better....Perhaps I could give you......some advice.....laughing

-- Posted by Theorist on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 10:25 PM

Sure...maybe we can have a drink together. Lets toast the next president!

-- Posted by Theorist on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 10:27 PM

Me'Lange: You are right, you win. My hands are raised high in the air. I shall only lower them when our shepherd, the state, guides me to new pastures. BAA

-- Posted by BCStoned on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 10:29 PM

But correct me if I'm wrong everything that you are talking about has a monetary value does it not??

There's really no such thing as free anymore!!

In reality we even pay for our air do we not??

-- Posted by Silent_Bob on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 10:31 PM

Well silent man...

Everything does have value, but not monetary. Now if you want to get into philosophy, let's go with Descartes.

Yes I am human, and I will fight for my family above all else. But I am not blind to the plight of my fellow man.

Where do you stand, oh silent one.....

-- Posted by Theorist on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 10:37 PM

And....I too am out...

-- Posted by Theorist on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 10:39 PM

Well all have a good evening, maybe I will chat tomorrow.

Twiggy

-- Posted by Aggiefan/Twiggy on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 10:40 PM

MeLange

No you didn't miss anything I'm just trying to understand Theorist by giving examples and waiting for answers.

I consider myself a generous person as well. mt favorite charity is St. Jude's Children's hospital. I have few more that I consider very important as well. I give to them every year and its a impressive portion of my salary. I just don't want you (no offence) or any one else telling me to give to something like that Bridge to nowhere or a study on the sleeping habits of a brown bat.

I have already said too much, Switching back to maximum silence.

-- Posted by Silent_Bob on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 10:42 PM

I wonder where the Babe went? She can preach to the choir since we're all conservatives now. From now on, I'll just agree with everything she says and she will be sooooo happy.

As a matter of fact, I'm sitting with my gun now - feels good. I just wish someone would knock on my door...better yet...break one of my windows. Bang! Bang!

Yes officer ... I shot that racoon ...just defending my home 'cause I'm a conservative and I'm taking responsibility for shooting that racoon 'cause I'm a conservative.

I'm a member of the militia too. Really...not chewing my fat twice.

-- Posted by concerned4all on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 10:49 PM

I do not vote because does it matter who carries the staff if you are a sheep, or who wields the chains if you are a slave? Obama or McCain be kind to this slave/sheep, for I am old, have mercy on my dredded soul for the glass of wine that I gave to the poor child in need of refreshment was so very weak. Indeed, so very weak.

-- Posted by BCStoned on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 10:51 PM

My philosophy is more on the level of the grass hopper ( Democrats ) and the ant (Republicans)

That's not very deep though is it??

I just think charity should be left up to the people not the government.

Kinda goes back to my question to Theorist about his gasoline.

Good Nite All.

Back Silent

-- Posted by Silent_Bob on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 10:53 PM

Theorist::

I think therefor I stay quite (mostly)

Funny huh?

-- Posted by Silent_Bob on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 11:03 PM

Darn spell checker!!!

This is probably caused by a slip of the fingers more often than by a slip of the mental gears, but one often sees “quite” (very) substituted for “quiet” (shhh!). This is one of those common errors your spelling checker will not catch, so look out for it.

-- Posted by Silent_Bob on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 11:13 PM

Suggest that many are willing to offer a hand-up, not a hand-out.

"Give a man free food and he'll figure out a way to steal more than he can eat, 'cause he doesn't have to pay" - The Rainmakers (band from the mid-80s).

Empathy for me stops whenever the recipient either does not either sincerely appreciate or try to return the value in some way, shape, or form back into the 'community pool'.

Help those who can't help themselves - sure. Help those who won't help themselves - NO. Ahhh, but how to differentiate without endless litigation....?

*****

As for the uncertainty in the upcoming Presidential election - I feel the need may arise to 'batten down the financial hatches' even further, and am working on a personal strategy to weather whatever may happen.

Perhaps a comical action in the views of many, but I'd like to think that I'm planning ahead, however misguided - instead of taking a 'wait-and-see-and-awcrap' approach. What happens if taxes are increased, if my job goes south, if inflation goes berserk, etc.? Are any others looking at these potential issues, or am I the only one standing way out in left field looking at the warning track?

-- Posted by fxpwt on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 11:15 PM

I know that I said good nite already but I forgot to end with a joke,

A woman takes a lover home during the day while her husband is at work. Her 9-year old son comes home unexpectedly, sees them and hides in the bedroom closet to watch.

The woman's husband also comes home. She puts her lover in the closet, not realizing that the little boy is in there already.

The little boy says, 'Dark in here.'

The man says, 'Yes, it is.'

Boy: 'I have a baseball.'

Man: 'That's nice'

Boy: 'Want to buy it?'

Man: 'No, thanks.'

Boy: 'My Dad's outside.'

Man: 'OK, how much?'

Boy: '$250'

In the next few weeks, it happens again that the boy and the lover are in the closet together.

Boy: 'Dark in here.'

Man: 'Yes, it is.'

Boy: 'I have a baseball glove.'

The lover, remembering the last time, asks the boy, 'How much?'

Boy: '$750'

Man: 'Sold.'

A few days later, the Dad says to the boy, 'Grab your glove, let's go outside and have a game of catch.'

The boy says, 'I can't, I sold my baseball and my glove.'

The Dad asks, 'How much did you sell them for?'

Boy: '$1,000'

The Dad says, 'That's terrible to over charge your friends like that...that is way more than those two things cost. I'm taking you to church, to confession.'

They go to the church and the Dad makes the little boy sit in the confessional booth and closes the door.

The boy says, 'Dark in here.

'

The priest says, 'Don't start that stuff again; you're in my closet now.'

GOOD NIGHT ALL!!

-- Posted by Silent_Bob on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 11:30 PM

Theorist

All gave some. Some gave all. Compassion only goes as far as when I am being taken for a ride. I live by a nice saying; Lead. Follow. Get out of the way!

Blunt, but so is trauma. And that can sum what this world has come to.

Four miles instead of three. We were on the same wave. I thought I needed to go the extra mile. Ha! Looky here I may be lacking in compassion (to you) but I still have my humor.

-- Posted by fajar154 on Mon, Aug 25, 2008, at 2:14 AM

MeLange

Thanks for your earlier post. Harsh is a better term. My wife uses it regularly when she pulls the chain. We all need a good choke collar to tone us down so we can keep our humanity.

Doctor asked what a Conservative was. I answered to the best that I thought that made me tick.

PS. I still ment what I said about your stalker problem. Would be a pleasure.

-- Posted by fajar154 on Mon, Aug 25, 2008, at 2:30 AM

Well, I see no one has told me why I should be responsible for the ***** who chose to have three children by her slack jawed prisoner boyfriend and told us to "pay me now or pay me later". All that I read were vague mutterings of government funded compassion from the liberals.

-- Posted by BABE on Mon, Aug 25, 2008, at 2:45 AM

Babe, I just knew you'd show up when everyone else was gone. You ma'am have no courage. Blah, blah, blah!

Go ahead and attack me...I'll take responsibility for what I said.

-- Posted by concerned4all on Mon, Aug 25, 2008, at 8:37 AM


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