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Speak out 6/24/08

Tuesday, June 24, 2008

Favorite sons

WHAT AN irony. Sikeston, Mo., has recently produced two national talents (Blake DeWitt in Major League Baseball and Neal Boyd in "America's Got Talent" as an opera singer). These are people who make us feel happy for them and good about ourselves, bring us together and unite us. On the other hand, Cape Girardeau gives us two nationally known media mavens who make much of their living off sowing the seeds of divisiveness.

Sports penalty

I DON'T think we need to overreact to the penalties doled out to Southeast Missouri State University for sports infractions. How about no more than a self-imposed sports hiatus?

Remember when?

I REMEMBER new American-made cars for under $2,000, new houses for under $15,000 that were nice brick homes, dime Cokes, quarter hamburgers, 35-cent movies and a date on Saturday night that might cost $3 if you went out to eat, bought some gas, went to a movie then out cruising later that evening. My, what a changed world today.

Wrong race

LET'S SEE: Jay Purcell of the Cape Girardeau County Commission has proposed Web casting of county commission meetings, has exposed and voted against an unethically and improperly obtained road easement, voted against Prosecuting Attorney Morley Swingle selling his books on the county's Web site, exposed and voted against county park ground being sold without citizens being involved and, most recently, is taking legal action at his own expense to force the county commission to follow the Sunshine Law and make everything public. It seems to me if Rock Finch wants to change county government for the better, maybe he should run against Presiding Commissioner Gerald Jones.

Religion and science

THIS TIME, David Limbaugh's failed attempt to reconcile religious faith and science really scared me. He went way beyond Pope Urban II, who in 1095 called for the first of a series of Christian crusades to reconquer the Holy Land from the Islamic Seljuk Turks. A careful reading of Limbaugh's June 21 diatribe seemed to at the very least imply that it is time for a Christian crusade to conquer not only Muslims, but those he deemed "New Agers ... practitioners of Eastern religions." In addition, Limbaugh seemed to be poised with sword in hand to swiftly impose Christianity on the world's secular, skeptical scientists. In my view, virtually no non-Christian now seems safe from the coming wrath of Limbaugh-led Christian soldiers.

Energy policy

WILL THE Democrats admit that their energy policy has failed? Build refineries, drill off the coasts, use our oil shale and coal and drill in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Develop nuclear energy and reduce regulations on the oil companies. Nationalizing the oil industry is not the answer.


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Levee topped over in St Charles. Walked it. Bagged until our arms fell off. Mother Nature is a b*tch. Corp of Engineers made the call to get everyone out. Glad we did. One hour later high and dry wasn't anymore.

Goodnight and sorry.

-- Posted by fajar154 on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 5:57 AM

I'm sorry, y'all--forgive me, but really, really wanted to comment on some of YESTERDAY'S comments...And now that Liberty isn't posting in length lately...thought maybe you needed a jump start today! LOL I did, however, shorten it down from three pages...God, I HATE feeling left out, especially since it was such a good and interesting Comment Day! ;-)

Red: Your story of farmers in the Good Old Days was just great. What a wise family you had...Well, heck, you had some good "teachers," apparently...and the wisdom certainly seems to have rubbed off on you!

"By disagreeing with your post, no one is trying to stifle your thoughts or speech, merely reacting to them." That bears repeating every now and then on here! You certainly said it better than I could have!

Pups: Great idea about a "tailgate party" at Libertyfest! A lot of us used to do that near Rantoul (where the old Air Base used to be) when they had the air shows (think they still do); great fun it was! If it's held at the airport, we'll definitely try to come--bearing my World Famous Deviled Eggs, Potato Salad, Cole Slaw--maybe convince Pops to bring a few of his World Famous Smoked Chickens or Turkey Breast. AND your "sister" is hoping to make it down then. What do you want for dessert...any and everything? LOL Would you come, Herr? You could bring the Road Kill Du Jour... or RK de Tages, if you prefer.

Me'Lange: More to consider than what residents might spend/lose in frequenting the local riverboat casinos, which might affect their buying habits at Walmart. People in surrounding counties and states coming in (Would give brothers & SILs a super excuse to come from Atlanta & Chicago to visit us!)...gambling, eating, staying in the motels, buying at local businesses, and BUYING GASOLINE (LOL). St. Charles's casino bought up surrounding unsightly (mildly put) neighborhoods, paid for new streets for miles around the casino, hired many locals who otherwise had to commute to St. Louis to work...and brought in more money than the city knew what to do with--Okay, not really...government can ALWAYS find things to do with money! Pros & cons, I know.

DWI

Both sides...pros & cons again...My father was an alcoholic. If his second DWI had been serious jail time, and serious fine...Our family would have probably ended up homeless and starving. The way I've viewed it over the decades is that there is no easy answer to the problem. The idea in some places to install the gadget on the person's automobile so they could not start it if they had been drinking seemed to be a possible solution. BTW: After Daddy's second DWI, I convinced him to call me to drive him home from the local tavern. Not all would agree to that, though. Drunks don't seem to know when they're drunk...but HE knew that 3rd beer was when he had to save a dime for the pay phone--and I believe he really was scared of ME. LOL

semoangel: You are absolutely correct. But it's almost useless to point out that while alcohol abuse kills, maims, and destroys families, it's a more-proven fact than the second-hand smoke allegations. Your idea of community service is a good one, IMO. We should do more of that for other "crimes," too...And BABE: Didn't realize MO had no open-container law (wondering what the point of it is, anyway?). Poor Daddy, he could have had a beer or two on their trips to visit us, after they hit St. Louis, then on to St. Joe. I tried to talk Mama into letting him put a keg in the trunk, run tubing through and sit in the back seat and sip a little on their trips. HE thought it was a great idea. LOL James! SO funny..."...designated driver that lives with you is a plus, it allows you to be as silly as you want when you go out. I know."

SWBG: I remember that! "...turn in your gun for appropriate disposal..." What an approriate disposal of the guns. LOL Didn't they catch a few "wanted" criminals during that, also?

Bethie: SO glad to see the Daegus news. Know it's tough to not know what's wrong, but postive he's in the best of hands. Not sure I understand why he was on antibiotics, though, without some sort of diagnosis? Bless his little heart, hope by now he's feeling all okay.

HAVE A GREAT TUESDAY, EVERYONE--despite having to either plow through this or skip over it! ~chuckling~

-- Posted by gurusmom on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 6:02 AM

fajar: So sorry to hear that. Did you have all the vehicles up on the bridge parked, while everyone was watching the sandbagging...but no one would come down to help? That's the way it went in 1993, when I was on the sandbagging crews. The crews were so great...they overlooked it every time I dropped one of the REALLY heavier bags. Certainly improved the muscle tone in my upper body, though. You're a good fella, fajar!

-- Posted by gurusmom on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 6:10 AM

P-L-O-W is a naughty word? Too funny...Although I've always heard the expression "Cleaned his p-l-o-w," never knew what his p-l-o-w was! Never believed I was very naive, but...

Sorry I can't sleep, but will leave y'all alone now.

-- Posted by gurusmom on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 6:36 AM

good morning everone

-- Posted by ..Rick on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 7:04 AM

casino

building a casino is a crap shoot at best .

if one were to be built , folks would

jam pack it at first..once the novelty wore

off , it would be old news and revenues

wouldn't be what the community hoped to

get from it ....

it's a real roll of the dice...

-- Posted by ..Rick on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 7:56 AM

Morning all

gurumom

living with an alcoholic is never easy. Your dad sounds a lot like my father only mine never got a ticket. The problem with the devices on cars that you have to blow in to get them to start......there is a guy in Bell City that has one on his car after a second DWI, he was at the gas station the other night when went to take my son to get a gatorade before the ballgame and he had his daughter blowing in it for him so the car would start so they can even get around that.

Me'Lange

Have you talked to Nickey, haven't seen her post in a few days? By the way starting Monday I am going back to my schedule of going to the gym before work ( 8 am ) so maybe will see you there!

Fajar

I remembersandbagging back in '93 and it was hard. I know it gets aggravating when you are busting your rear to do it and people are just driving by and looking at you. Good for you though helping people in need.

Now on sandbagging efforts. I read in the paper I think it was Sunday that up north ( Ill side ) Obama was actually out helping a community sandbag while McCain was in a plane flying over "looking" at the damage. I am not a big Obama fan but I think it means more to people that he would help rather than sit in a seat and fly over!

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 9:17 AM

i'm an alcoholic that hasn't had a drink in

five years ..there were times i don't remember

how i even got home but thank god i never hurt

nobody but myself .

now i'm the DD when we go out ..people who drink

get on my nerves , they act so d a m n silly

when they're drunk , i can only imagine how

stupid and silly i was when i was drinking .

i live with an alcoholic now and do my best

to understand why they are this way .

i lost years that i don't remember cause of

drinking ...it's a high price to pay ...i found

people can have fun without drinking -- i never

would have believed it 5 years ago..

-- Posted by ..Rick on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 9:38 AM

rick

Good for you. A lot of people do not realize just how addicting alcohol can be, they do not see just how it can turn your life upside down until it does theirs and then the road to sobriety is a long one and hard. It takes a strong person to turn it around and it sounds like you have.

I have more fun going to a club and watching all the drunks than I do actually drinking. It is funny just how brave, or stupid, a few drinks can make someone.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 9:47 AM

semoangel70

i wish i had my 30 years back i wasted

on alcohol...i finally decided there's

no answers in the bottom of a bottle .

it's the hardest thing i ever done but i'm

glad i finally did it..

-- Posted by ..Rick on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 9:51 AM

lol..w.a.s.t.e.d is a no no word !

-- Posted by ..Rick on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 9:52 AM

Religion and Science

So now Rush is accused of starting a Crusade??!!! The guy is alright and I listen to him once in a blue moon but how influential do some people think he is. He just TALKS...sure some people like him alot, too much. But is anyone right now suiting up for the upcoming Crusade on the Muslims, probably not. For Christ Sake it's just an old fat man blubbering behind a microphone

-- Posted by Producer1 on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 10:54 AM

Religion and science: Although I have respect for anyone who opens up to the world in speech and in print, I find it difficult to share the politically correct ideology of David and Rush.

Except for their explicit use of four letter words, I would feel more comfortable with Lenny Bruce or George Carlin. Like them, I don't have a high regard for institutions and institutional thought.

-- Posted by BCStoned on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 11:09 AM

G-mom--

When they are under 2 mo old---they give them antibiotics and treat it as if they have meningitis until the cultures come back because it takes two days. So, it was pre-cautionary.

Also--I got a laugh out of the beer rigging system idea. =)

_________________________________________________

Casinos -

"I think all individuals have free thought, free will, and free choice---and thus a responsibility to utilize it in the best way possible for them...and to deal with any positive or negative that comes as a result.

In my opinion---that is part of being an adult and a responsible citizen."

I'm John "Flip-Flops" McSame, and I approve this message!

John----Come up with your own message. Even though (as it is my message from a couple of days ago in the quoted area)....I do believe it applies to casinos as well. I've been to a casino..and I've won and I've lost. I never take any money that I wouldn't be comfortable just flushing down the toilet.

-- Posted by Super_Bethie on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 12:13 PM

re: favorite sons

What?

-- Posted by BABE on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 1:27 PM

Casinos: Some say that man/woman is not able to make rational decisions on gambling, so therefore they shouldn't have the opportunity to gamble. So we elect a man/woman to office to make rational decisions for us on gambling.

-- Posted by BCStoned on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 1:31 PM

prudentdriver,

There was a time when you could raise a family of four, buy a house and a car, put the kids though college, invest in the stock market, take semi-annual European vacations, and eat steak 5 nights a week, all on that $.10/hr. Man times sure have changed. (Of course you would still have to walk to school 7 miles in the snow uphill both ways)

-- Posted by SWBG on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 1:41 PM

Casinos,

I do not think a casino would in anyway be a panacea for any ills of Cape Girardeau. I have my own guilty pleasures but besides that I do believe it brings people to the area. I realize many would come just to gamble. However when examining the downtown area of Cape the businesses that thrive there would only be helped by the increased foot flow. I don't see the bars or resteraunts being hurt because few people are going down town anyhow. I don't think Brown's Shoes is going to be competing with a casino. As far as anyones personal problems with gambling someone can start a GA group.

-- Posted by SWBG on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 1:51 PM

"I REMEMBER new American-made cars for under $2,000, new houses for under $15,000 that were nice brick homes, dime Cokes, quarter hamburgers, 35-cent movies and a date on Saturday night that might cost $3 if you went out to eat, bought some gas, went to a movie then out cruising later that evening. My, what a changed world today."

I,too, remember those days.

New cars were heavy with powerful engines. They did not have air conditioning, power steering, auto transmissions, air bags, pollution controls or cup holders. Most families only had one vehicle.

New houses were usually three bedrooms, one bathroom, kitchen and living room even for large families.

Hamburgers were cooked at the local drive-in or diner, not a franchise. Movies were cheap before actors became celebrities. Gas was cheap before the taxes imposed.

Our expectations were lower but we still expected quality in our purchases.

-- Posted by BABE on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 1:59 PM

I remember and Babe: You people must be young. I remember going down to Charley Hinkle's in Advance during school lunch and buying a soda, chips, and a hot dog for a quarter. We built government homes, 2 bedrooms, in Marble Hill for $2500. A candy bar was a nickle. I believe that we did walk through snow uphill both ways to go to school, but I can't be sure.

-- Posted by BCStoned on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 2:44 PM

I just have to add this--just to show my age, ya know.

15 cents, a nickle and a dime

At Burger Chef you get value every time.

For a nickle and a dime you get:

French fried potatoes,

Thick, thick shakes,

And the greatest 15 cent hamburger yet!

That was the theme song for Burger Chef, which I believe was the very first fast food restaurant in Cape. It sold to Hardee's eventually and was located where the present Hardee's on William Street is.

When I was in college it was still Burger Chef. On the commercials BC had a sidekick named Jeff. We'd go eat lunch there a couple times a week. There was an elderly man who worked there cleaning off tables, etc. He had dentures and he was forever pushing them out and pulling them back in. We called him Jeff!

Ahhhh, memories.

-- Posted by Maxine_the_Magnificent on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 3:50 PM

"There was a time, there was a time, there was a time . . ."

Yes, there was a time. And this isn't it. Most everyone, including most everyone on here, has a more expensive vehicle than they should (probably more than one), lives in a bigger house than they should, and has more "stuff" than they should.

We're all to blame for the mess we're in.

-- Posted by slim_pickens on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 4:05 PM

Remember When: I too recall those days. However, I was making 35-cents an hour then. By the late 1960's, I was earning $1 an hour!

-- Posted by gurusmom on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 4:23 PM

sweetstrings Maybe..."Most everyone, including most everyone on here, has a more expensive vehicle than they should (probably more than one), lives in a bigger house than they should, and has more 'stuff' than they should." Exception here? Two vehicles, both over 12 years old, smallest house since 30 years ago...but do have more "stuff," which actually is an accumulation of almost 30 years (started over after our first home burned) that I keep TRYING to reduce! Only semi-major purchases the past 10 years were a computer & television when the old ones died. Guess we're considered conservative--or out of the mainstream? LOL

-- Posted by gurusmom on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 4:33 PM

Hello all. Just 2 more days after today of actual shift work then I start clearing getting ready to leave Italy on July 16th!!!

I found the first SO article funny about the two guys out of Sikeston. They forgot to brag about how they are Meth Capital USA.

You guys talking about a dollar date make me feel like a kid. The cheapest things I can remember in the 80's as gas below a dollar, and 50 cent packs of baseball cards. I really don't complain about the cost of things too much. I just do without if I can't afford something. As long as I have a roof over my head and food on the table, I am content. Oh, I couldn't do without my 2-42" Plasma's and 1200 dvd's though. I have to have some entertainment.

-- Posted by chaffeemp on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 4:42 PM

There was a time, there was a time, there was a time . . ."

Yes, there was a time. And this isn't it. Most everyone, including most everyone on here, has a more expensive vehicle than they should (probably more than one), lives in a bigger house than they should, and has more "stuff" than they should.

We're all to blame for the mess we're in.

-- Posted by sweetstrings on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, 3:05 pm CDT

I have a 2007 Chevy, 2 plasmas, PS3, Xbox360, 1200 dvds, etc. Who is to tell me I have more stuff than I should? I have worked hard for my money, and I don't need anyone telling me what I should or shouldn't have. You sound like you come from a communist state of mind. Owning too much isn't the problem. Living beyond one's means and getting in credit troubles are the problems. I will say thank you to all on here. It is your tax dollars that pay my salary.

-- Posted by chaffeemp on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 4:46 PM

semoangel: I recall hearing that was one problem with the alcohol device...having someone else do the "blowing." I do have some relatives who quit driving after losing their licenses for DWI...puts a burden on families, but that's better than the alternative, IMO.

Rick! I'm so proud of you! Not an easy thing to do! Two brothers finally quit drinking--one 20 years ago after numerous professional help, one about 4 years ago when he got his first DWI. I also discovered that life can be fun without being drunk...plus you can REMEMBER the fun afterwards! LOL Guessing I'm one of the seldom-mentioned alcoholics who CAN have one drink...just made up my mind that no matter HOW MUCH I want another (and I always do want another), I won't do it. Gotta have a glass of wine or an ale every few months. Addiction to alcohol is much like addiction to smoking (& other things...caffeine, chocolate maybe?)--some are able to quit, often after many attempts...some just don't have the psychological ability to do so. And YES! Boy, it's tough to deal with a drunk when you're sober! Sometimes funny, sometimes frustrating & sad, but usually always...uh...interesting.

-- Posted by gurusmom on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 4:48 PM

ChaffeeMP,

Sounds like you are excited about getting out of Italy. Also, your mood is much improved. I'm guessing that has a lot to do with the 16th of next month.

And your welcome. haha

-- Posted by Pups on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 4:49 PM

SWBG,

Ummm hate to point this out, but I don't recall Benny Hill being short or bald. Though we did watch him all the time when I was a kid.

-- Posted by Pups on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 4:56 PM

sweetstrings

That was exactly my point. We didn't have the expectations of instant gratification. We knew the difference between a need and a want. We had one telephone, car, bathroom, tv etc. Eating out was a rare treat. My family of five could eat at the Picadilly Cafeteria in Lafayette, La for little more than $5.00 total, but we couldn't have a dessert. We kids were expected to work to earn our spending money. I babysat for .35 an hour and did the dishes, too. One night would buy me a pack of cigarettes and a lipstick. LOL

We knew we would have to become rich to expect more. Now people expect more as their due just for existing. Know what I mean?

-- Posted by BABE on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 4:57 PM

MeLange

I agree with you about the casino although I don't have any 'feely or touchy' compassion for gamblers losing their disposal income. What I do find amusing is that local business and residents expect gambling folks to flood the town with monies being spent outside the casino. Folks come to casinos to gamble, not shop for antiques. And we should look into just how much revenue in taxes the city would receive. Most casinos are given huge tax breaks.

Does anyone remember when the lottery promised that it would all go into our schools?

-- Posted by BABE on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 5:09 PM

ChaffeeMP

I hope you get the flight you want back to the states. You should get first class for your service.

But you were a little harsh today in debate. If you can afford what you have, then you deserve what you have. No one is critizing you for your purchases. I think the point was that most folks today expect more than they can afford and blame others when they can't.

-- Posted by BABE on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 5:22 PM

Babe,

The lottery does go to the schools. Where the problem is in how they use it in the budget. My understanding (mind you limited) is that the money from the lottery wasn't used as 'extra' for school. It was used in place of funds already there. Meaning say the budget was $20 and the lottery then gave them $10. The budget didn't go to $30, it stayed at $20 and the state then used $10 of their original budget monies for something else. So yes, the lottery is going to the schools, it's just not being counted as extra toward school budgeting. (might have sounded like a politician in my explaination cause it feels a bit confused. lol)

-- Posted by Pups on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 5:23 PM

PRESIDENT BUSH: Madam President, it is a pleasure to welcome you back to the Oval Office. We have just had a very constructive dialogue. First, I want to tell you how proud I am to be the President of a nation that -- in which there's a lot of Philippine-Americans. They love America and they love their heritage. And I reminded the President that I am reminded of the great talent of the -- of our Philippine-Americans when I eat dinner at the White House. (Laughter.)

-- Posted by Ike on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 5:23 PM

Babe, I hope I get a good flight too. I actually will have to pay for part of my flight home though. The military is only required to fly me to my next duty station. Since that is Denver, I will actually have to pay for my flight from Denver to St Louis. Not too happy about that, but I don't mind.

Sorry if I sounded harsh. To me it seemed like the person who posted what I responded too was saying we should basically buy only the neccessities. I just don't want people telling me what to do with my money is all. I already pay taxes for things I disagree with, so that should be good enough for me, lol.

-- Posted by chaffeemp on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 5:27 PM

Pups

ALL monies collected from gambling go into the general fund. We were lied to when we were told that ALL taxes from casinos would go strictly for education.

-- Posted by BABE on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 5:34 PM

ChaffeMP,

Can you get a Military hop from Denver to St Louis? Or is that an option anymore. It has been years since I flew military, but that was out of country not in (being a child of exmilitary). Of course there is also the availabilty/standby to concider I guess. And if memory serves, flying a DC9 fully booked was more comfortable then flying in a C-130 or C141. Now the C-5's were absolutely wonderful to fly in.

btw, might be showing my age, but those planes are still used right??? lol

-- Posted by Pups on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 5:36 PM

Babe,

Kind of what I meant, just didn't use the wording you did. No need to yell at me. haha

-- Posted by Pups on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 5:37 PM

Babe,

Ooops I was only refering to Lottery not Gambling taxes. I was under the impression that they were two different things. Not saying they don't go into the general fund, just different in that one is a percentage of monies brought(ticket sold) in and the other is a tax on the gambling business (regular business taxation that any business pays).

-- Posted by Pups on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 5:41 PM

BABE: Like Old Folks, we often talk about "instant gratification" that is so prevalent today. Long-range saving for major purchases seems rare. When the kids get married, they often expect to start out with almost everything their parents worked and waited and saved for, for sometimes a decade or more. How did this happen? Funny: None of my granddaughters had ever heard of a Hope Chest...It was like, "You mean we should start NOW on saving things for after we grow up or get married?" And yes, I remember about the lotteries...but they didn't exactly say it would go to schools...they said it would be "earmarked" for them--which they pointed out when people started complaining that it wasn't being used for schools.

-- Posted by gurusmom on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 5:43 PM

Pups, not too sure. I doubt it though. The worst flights I have evern been on were in a C130. I prefer the C-17. I can just lay down in the cargo-space. Guess I should start checking prices for flights now.

Me'Lange, I understood what Sweet or whatever was talking about in relation to our economy. People need to stop thinking of the "good ole days" and focus on the here and now. 50 years from now, these times will be considered the same way. I will say I hate it when parents hand everything to their children. Make them work for it. I didn't have a car until I joined the Army and could afford it myself. From 15 on, I basically payed for my clothes and what not. Kids want everything up front without working for it.

On another note, did any of you see the story on the "pregnancy pact" in Mass.? Kind of crazy. The mayor did a press conference basically making the principal sound like a loon. I think when a teenager becomes pregnant, the parent should lose their tax break for the childbirth and actually have to pay an excess child tax. Maybe that will keep the parents more involved.

-- Posted by chaffeemp on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 6:02 PM

GurusMom

Since we are discussing alcohol consumption, I am curious of your definition of a 'drunk' which you mentioned in your post.

Folks of a different culture, religion or geographical area seem to have differing definitions than those who, perhaps, were reared in the bible belt .

I am from south Louisiana where most folks drink alcohol on a daily basis and do not consider it a character flaw or a sin.

For instance, I have heard physicians here chastise a patient brutally for drinking whereas physicians in south Louisiana will tell their patients to limit their consumption with certain medications. BTW, Louisiana has a responsible open container law unlike Missouri.

So, I am curious to see all posters definitions of a 'drunk'. Is it drinking alcohol daily. Is it binge drinking? Is it when one loses control over their lives?

Churchill drank a fifth of whiskey a day while winning WWII. Was he a 'drunk'?

I'm not being procative here as I'm just curious of anyone's definition.

-- Posted by BABE on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 6:13 PM

Me'Lange, I plan on it. I touch down in Missouri on the 16th. Which day do you guys do the lunch on, Friday or Saturday? I will make sure I am there. I will give you all my cell number before I leave here to come back. I will only be back in Missouri for about a week though. My fiancee, her mom, and best friend will be coming down from Iowa on the 21st to meet my family, and we will be driving back to Iowa on the 24th. Just let me know.

As far as talking about my time in 20 years, I don't doubt it. It is funny because I remember when I first joined the Army, I was 18. I used to make fun of my NCO's calling them old. They weren't though. They would talk about how it was when they were privates and it was tougher. I am the same way now. It is funny because I have been called over by a couple of the privates in the last few days. I talk about how we had it harder when I was a private. It all comes back to you in the end I guess, lol.

-- Posted by chaffeemp on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 6:19 PM

ChaffeeMP,

Lost the tip of my finger once while on a C-141. Sitting next to the wall seperating the flight deck and where we were. There was this little fan/blower that I couldn't understand the use for as it was attached to the wall, but also angled toward the wall. (kind of a C shape) Just enough room between the wall and the fan/blower to rest my fingers. Being a stupid 14 year old decided to see how far in the fan was. Didn't get very far before tip of finger hit blandes. Let just say I got the "you're really an idiot and you get no sympothy from me" look from my Mom sitting next to me. She even made me tell the guys how stupid I was when I had to ask for a first aid kit. LOL

Oh, and I believe my father can still catch hops within the US being that he is retired. He and my Mom could up until about 6 years ago fly military if outside the US.

-- Posted by Pups on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 6:31 PM

BABE

i'm a definition of a drunk...read all of my posts

and see how simple and uneducated they are compared

to everyone else..

alcohol eats the brain cells , don't ya know .

at one time , i could have an intelligent arguement .

-- Posted by ..Rick on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 6:37 PM

Babe,

My father drinks every day after work. And usually to the point that driving is not an option. But, he has never missed a day of work because of it. Though the fact that he doesn't go a day without drinking could be seen as problem. (It is an ongoing arguement with some Siblings)

-- Posted by Pups on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 6:42 PM

Rick,

Just my opinion, but your posts are not uneducated or due to loss of brain cells. Your posts bring humor, insight and intellegence to most discussions you choose to join. Again, just MHO.

-- Posted by Pups on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 6:44 PM

Pups

Thanks for your input. If your dad is not driving when he knows he is impaired and he has a good life, then why should it be a problem?

-- Posted by BABE on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 6:55 PM

Bethie: Thanks for explanation of antibiotics! How's Daegus feeling now? You must be exhausted.

Pop & I saved our allowances, and when we had about $100 each, we'd go to the casino to eat, then gamble until our money was gone (a few times, we actually came out ahead, since we also had a "time limit" set for leaving). Just looked at it as the price of a night out. We ALWAYS had a limit of what we were willing and able to lose.

-- Posted by gurusmom on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 7:09 PM

I told you all yesterday that I would let you know what the female in the police report on 4-8-08 got out of her DWI today....... Well basically nothing...attend some class and a fine..... BIG DEAL !!!! Still has her license, no probation... nothing. What a slap on the hand. We can thank our judge for this kind of sentence.

-- Posted by justmyopin on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 7:31 PM

I found the first SO article funny about the two guys out of Sikeston. They forgot to brag about how they are Meth Capital USA

-- Posted by ChaffeeMP on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, 3:42 pm CDT

Missouri has been classified as the meth capital of the US not just Sikeston but according to the following link California has had more meth seized than Mo. Mo still had the most labs busted.

http://www.columbiamissourian.com/storie...

Sikeston has done a lot of cleaning up and they should be commended for seeing the problems there and trying to do something about it. I wish we could say there was a perfect town in the US or anywhere else in the world but that is not meant to be. The first speakout caller was wrong about puting down anyone from Cape and no one should be putting down any other town.

-- Posted by scottcountyproud on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 7:41 PM

Obama Leads McCain by 15 Points as Voters Reject Republicans, Yahoo.

This just breaks my heart!

-- Posted by Marine5151 on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 7:47 PM

Babe,

Sorry for delay, got called out of the office.

I should have clarified. Driving has not always been a non option. And the problem is that it is every day, any day reguardless of what is going on that day.

-- Posted by Pups on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 7:59 PM

Me'Lange

sounds good will have to check the climber out.

As far as handing our kids to much. Our daughter will be 16 in 49 days we bought her a 2005 Accord and we have paid a years worth of insurance for her BUT she knows if she falls behind in school or stops helping out at home the car is gone and after a year she has to pay her own insurance. She is responsible now for the gas and repairs to the car. Our kids are spoiled I won't deny it but for the big things they get (i-pods, cellphones, video games etc) they have to do chores around the house to earn them. So far it works because they appreciate what they get.

ChaffeeMP

Good luck on the flight home.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 8:01 PM

Me'Lange: Loved your Hope Chest story...sounded a lot like mine, except no Dollar Store. Grandma gave me one of her cast iron skillets, Aunt a couple of pots...most of my stuff was "used," except for the handwork things like tea towels, dresser runners, crocheted bedspread. What a mish-mash of tablewear we had...But it was so great.

Chaffee The "Pregnancy Pact": One article mentioned interviews where the girls "needed something of their own to love..." Hard-hearted Mom here thinks if all teenage girls knew beforehand that they would have to pay for the doctor/hospital bills themselves somehow--years of payments on little or no wages, it might give them reason to consider whether or not to get pregnant.

No, IMO, sometimes remembering the "good old days" is a good thing to do...Not what things cost, or what wages were, but how to organize one's life and finances more realistically. How to do without something one wants (but doesn't necessarily need) until one can afford it. Does that make any sense?

-- Posted by gurusmom on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 8:03 PM

BABE: "...curious of your definition of a 'drunk'..." Just an old leftover, from when alcoholics were called "drunks"--not even sure if "alcoholic" was a word back then. There was a song Grandma had a record of, that I used to sing to myself..."The Drunkard's Child." Sad song, I still remember all the words...My paternal grandfather's death certificate gave "died of drunkeness" as cause of death. In recalling, seems like after alcoholism replaced "drunk," as a noun, then we started hearing statements like, "Oh! He's just drunk"--as opposed to being an alcoholic.

Pups: My dad stopped drinking several times, but just couldn't stick to it. When he FINALLY decided to quit the "hard stuff," and stick to just beer...I loved it! He was so mellowed out and funny then, and that's when our deep, personal conversations started--the other tended to make him mean, unless everyone left him alone--which my mother NEVER figured out! He also never missed a day of work because of drinking. Mama never let up on him even after he just drank beer...that made me sad. I will always miss him, and regret not having had more personal time with him.

Rick: I agree with Pups, and enjoy your posts! My dad was sharper than most people I ever knew, right up to the end, even after over 60 years of drinking alcohol...Hey, maybe it's what one STARTS with...in the intelligence field? LOL

-- Posted by gurusmom on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 8:13 PM

Babe,

Alcohol consumption.

In response to your question of how individuals on this site describe what constitutes "a drunk". I try never to use the term "a drunk" for someone with an alcohol addiction problem as it seems pejorative rather than descriptive. I have been "a drunk" on more occasions than one could count, but have never been addicted. I worked with individuals with alcohol and drug addictions during my professional career and the definition of an "alcoholic" was an ongoing debate among counselors, therapists, treatment providers and criminal justice personnel. It seems no one could come to a consensus and used the fall back position that an alcoholic is someone who cannot control their drinking and whose drinking has caused them problems in the family, job or with the law. I guess I agree with that as much as anyone as like you I have seen how alcohol use as a beverage is accepted in certain cultures and even areas of this country. Oftentimes we tend to be too judgmental.

Rick,

My grandfather was an alcoholic until the day he died and he was one of the most intelligent men I have ever known. Intelligence and education are not always the same thing and you can have one without the other. Never sell yourself short. You have done something that most can never accomplish and you seem to have good insight into many things and an interesting way of expressing yourself.

-- Posted by Red_Rhino on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 8:14 PM

Who Me: "It was a simple time. No fax, cell phones, Internet, people were off Sunday, and the world seemed to stop and take a breath."

Thinking you hit a very large nail on the head with that comment, IMO. Time...Who did that song about Time in a Bottle? No time anymore for visiting neighbors on the front porch, playing with and enjoying the children, cooking from scratch, cuddling on the sofa with someone we love (unless the TV is on), relaxing with a good book, or...yeah...it's just like not being able to stop to take a breath.

Red: Your posts are always impressive! I second your comments to Rick!

-- Posted by gurusmom on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 8:30 PM

Mom,

My Father has always been what they term a "pleasant drunk" and his choice has almost always been beer. Usually if at a gathering, that is when he does the most talking. He and I have never had the same relationship that my Mother and I had. And with living 2000 miles away from each other, I doubt we ever will. It is better then it was when I was younger. Not saying he is a bad guy, or that he hasn't made amends with other siblings, just he and I are like oil and vinager. Great when mixed with other spices (family), not so great just the two. lol

-- Posted by Pups on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 8:45 PM

John---

Why are you obsessed with quoting me??!!

G-Mom--

He's feeling much better..and he stayed up late last night..but wasn't fussy or feeling bad. We are feeling much closer to caught up and I even got some housework done today. =)

I do pretty much the same thing with the casino as you guys. Last time I took $40 to play on (my first real trip into one) and I fed $14 to nickel slot machines that I couldn't tell if I was winning or losing on. I said heck with that....went with my cousin to the blackjack table and put in my $5. I left several hours later with almost $300. As I won..I put the money that I had came in with aside and played only with winnings. I had noticed that the break dealer cleaned me out and I had to win back up....so when she came back for the second time...I decided it was time to go. =)

Pregnancy Pact--

This makes me want to grab teen girls by the shoulders and shake them....REALLY hard. I would never say one who was presented with the situation couldn't overcome it..but it's definitely not ideal...and not something to be sought out.

-- Posted by Super_Bethie on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 9:00 PM

Red_Rhino -

In your post of 1914 - "Intelligence and education are not always the same thing and you can have one without the other."

Great observation! Gonna have to file that one for future reference.

-- Posted by fxpwt on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 9:02 PM

Gurusmom,

Time in a Bottle is one of my favorite songs and for the singer, Jim Croce, it was eerily prophetic as he died in a plane crash three months before it really became popular.

As to cuddling, visiting and sitting on the front porch, I am not sure that we don't have time or don't take time. I think personally I have been guilty of the latter.

-- Posted by Red_Rhino on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 9:07 PM

fxpwt,

One of my duties was to perform background checks, conduct interviews and obtain writing samples from prospective employees. A Bachelors Degree was mandatory. I was always amazed at how many people walked through my door with a college degree in hand and very little real intelligence. I knew a lot of people who could have done the job very well, but did not meet the educational requirements. I do not mean to downplay the importance of education, but really hate to see anyone judged on their lack thereof.

-- Posted by Red_Rhino on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 9:19 PM

Red Rhino

" It seems no one could come to a consensus and used the fall back position that an alcoholic is someone who cannot control their drinking and whose drinking has caused them problems in the family, job or with the law. I guess I agree with that as much as anyone as like you I have seen how alcohol use as a beverage is accepted in certain cultures and even areas of this country. Oftentimes we tend to be too judgmental."

I agree. Drinking alcohol on a daily basis does not necessarily mean a person has a problem with family, job or the law. But the bible belt mentality that is found here in this area is all invasive into judgmental attitudes that can and do affect other's lives in the form of relationships, jobs or medical treatment.

In Louisiana we call those who are ashamed of having a drink 'paper bag yankees'. LOL

-- Posted by BABE on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 9:27 PM

Sikeston: When I was young your town was the richest town per capita in the state of Missouri, and close to the richest in the US. Your history is rich and one to be proud of.

-- Posted by BCStoned on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 9:35 PM

Babe,

"In Louisiana we call those who are ashamed of having a drink 'paper bag yankees'. LOL

-- Posted by BABE on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, 8:27 pm CDT "

Wouldn't that be concidered being judgemental???? hehe

-- Posted by Pups on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 9:38 PM

Babe,

You are correct, the consumtion of alcohol on a daily basis does not make one a drunk or an alcoholic. Not being able to go a day without a drink might.

-- Posted by Pups on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 9:45 PM

Hey Bethie,

Glad you're getting more sleep. And really happy that my Godson is doing better. :-)

-- Posted by Pups on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 9:47 PM

SWBG,

Ummm hate to point this out, but I don't recall Benny Hill being short or bald. Though we did watch him all the time when I was a kid.

pups,

You know I was looking for a pic of that little old man Benny Hill used to slap on the head but I could not find one. Kind of liked this pic though.

-- Posted by SWBG on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 10:08 PM

An alcoholic is not always a person who drinks on a regular basis. They are a person who when drinking cannot think and make right choices as well as those who cannot go more than a few hours without a drink. My father was an alcoholic. He would drink at least a 12 pack every day when he got off work and start the day off with another one, however he never missed a day of work because of drinking......instead he missed our graduations, weddings, children being born etc because he was to drunk to attend. My brother however drinks very seldomly but when he does he makes bad choices and has had two DWI's to prove that. After the last one he was ordered into rehab and counceling and guess what he is considered an alcoholic even though he would only drink three or four times a year. There is no clear definition it is all in the way we choose to see it.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 10:18 PM

SWBG,

Is this the guy you're talking about in the photo with Benny?

http://chud.com/nextraimages/BH1.jpg

-- Posted by Pups on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 10:19 PM

or try this one SWBG

http://www.runstop.de/jwright.html

-- Posted by Pups on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 10:25 PM

Pups: How interesting: Our parental situations are just the opposite. Always got along fine with Mama, but actually we had little-to-nothing in common (believe I got my "parenting" and "life's outlook" traits from HER mother)...but Daddy was always interesting, intelligently challenging me, and his sense of humor was much like mine (or vice versa, I imagine). Mama has no sense of humor, can't recall her ever hugging any of us or saying she loved us. Hurts me the worst? She's never had any interest in any of her grandchildren...they got cheated in that department. I envy you the relationship with your mother, Pups...but Daddy kind of made up for Mama with me and one of my brothers, IMO.

Bethie: That's terrific! What I did when I was winning, though, was put the winnings aside and keep playing till my original amount was gone...I LOVE hoarding money, actually. Most I ever made in St. Charles was at Blackjack...then Pops came along and started to "advise" me, and I lost it all! LOL So thrilled Daegus is doing good!

Thinking about Sex Ed (do they still teach that?): Always thought with all the things they seemed to concentrate on (recall one of my kids talking about wearing a "fake tummy" to "see how pregnancy feels"), they should have had some serious classes teaching what babies cost, in time and money--for 18 years! And somehow throw in a little "personal responsibility" along the way. Tell a 15-17 year old about all the things they won't be able to afford or do/enjoy if they get pregnant (or get someone pregnant--not just blaming the girls)...Hit the things most important to them at that age. Next Country Mart part-time, high-school checker who comes up to me grinning with the news "I'm going to have a baby," instead of being a hypocrite, I'm going to TRY to be honest and say something like, "I'm so sorry, dear. It's sad that birth control only works 99% of the time." Or not... ~SIGH~

-- Posted by gurusmom on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 10:29 PM

Semoangel,

Know exactly what you are talking about.

-- Posted by Pups on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 10:35 PM

Right, Red: I could be sitting in the living room cuddling Pops instead of being on this computer...but then again, I'd be disturbing his TV show! ~grin~ Did sit on the porch visiting with a neighbor for an hour or so today. Have to admit, though, that we do a fair amount of conversing and touching and hugging arond here...LOL Didn't know that about Croce...just really liked that song. And agree wholeheartedly about "...amazed at how many people walked through my door with a college degree in hand and very little real intelligence." Saw it so often in various places I worked...and yes, places where I'd applied for work.

BABE: Never heard that...what a laugh! Paper Bag Yankees! Well, IMO, anyone who has to have a drink for breakfast (as I did years ago) to start the day, is possibly an alcoholic. Pops has "Happy Hour" every evening before supper--2 drinks or beers...Is that a Social Drinker? BTW...e-mail needs an answer tonight if you can get to it. ;-)

-- Posted by gurusmom on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 10:38 PM

St.Louis 8 , Detroit 4 .....Final

-- Posted by ..Rick on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 10:39 PM

Alcohol,

The DSM IV does not qualify the term alcoholic but rather differentiates between alcohol abuse and alcohol dependence.

The substance abuse culture tends to be a self perpetuating system of creating disorders.

Here is a copy of the MAST

http://counsellingresource.com/quizzes/a...

Or here is a copy of the CAGE

https://www.merck.healthinkonline.com/me...

The CAGE is a popular test used by FMD's. See where you score.

-- Posted by SWBG on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 10:41 PM

SWBG,

I'm thinking the CAGE test will put everyone in the catagory of having a problem. I answered the question about ever having a drink in the morning for a hangover and it said I might have a problem. That was years ago, and who knew having a bloodymary in the morning was wrong?? lol j/k

-- Posted by Pups on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 10:45 PM

pups,

Exactly. And these are the assessment tools being used at times to diagnose or label someone.

You know the old mantra once an alcoholic always an alcoholic. Most people who have ever drank drink responsibly. I have read before that 15% of the population drinks 85% of the alcohol. I do not know if that is true. Fact is pups if you were to have come to clinical attention at one point in your life you may have been labeled an alcoholic. Hell you could label most college students alcoholics.

-- Posted by SWBG on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 10:55 PM

SWBG,

You are correct. And the fact that now, by answering one question that they word with the word "ever" I could still be classified as being an alcoholic, is very eye opening to the process.

Hope one of those links helped you find what you were looking for. Mind you I like Benny so if you decide not to change him, I'm ok with it. hehe

-- Posted by Pups on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 11:01 PM

Interesting, SWBG. In answering the questions as if I were back when I was drinking, apparently I was something like "middle of the road" and heading toward disaster then. If I allow myself more than the one occasional drink, though...like semoangel's brother...there would be no stopping until I collapsed into bed (or on the sofa)...Sometimes I suspect it's the TASTE as much as the alcohol, now...I wouldn't want to even FINISH one Martini...UGH! LOL

That Bloody Mary, Pups, was what we in the cocktail lounges called "Hair of the Dog." One morning (when we were having to do double shifts because of the Shriners' Convention being in town--worked from 9:00 a.m. to 1:30 a.m. Thu. through Sat.) I got to work feeling REALLY bad...and the sadistic bartender offered to make me a Bloody Mary. Well, I'd had them before, liked them just fine...Think he emptied half the bottle of Tabasco sauce into it...then stood there with this grin on his face watching me take that first drink. Stubborn Mom...tears running down my cheeks, but I drank the entire danged glassful! Was no longer concerned with my hangover headache, for sure, so guess it worked. LOL Uh oh...You didn't know Mom worked in a cocktail lounge? ;-)

-- Posted by gurusmom on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 11:07 PM

pups,

I appreciate the effort but have no will power to mess right now. perhaps tomorrow. I think I'll have another beer and go to bed.

-- Posted by SWBG on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 11:09 PM

pups,

BTW a competent professional would not label you anything but a soc/lib.

-- Posted by SWBG on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 11:12 PM

SWBG

Thanks, I'm thinking that's better then being labeled a lib/soc. LMAO

Mom,

I always knew there was something about you I liked. hehe

Everyone have a great night and see you all tomorrow.

-- Posted by Pups on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 11:18 PM

. GurusMom

I will tell you a true story of my mother who lived in south Louisiana and was a registered nurse.

On one of her visits to me here in Cape, she had to be hospitalized for a few days. The young nurse taking her history asked the question of alcohol use and said she would check the 'social' section.

My mother told her this......"Well, I mix myself a strong highball in the evening and sit on my front porch. If no one visits me then I drink it alone. Now, classify it anyway you like". giggle

-- Posted by BABE on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 11:47 PM

Sprite and Single Malt Bushmill's! Bottoms up!

-- Posted by Proud_Democrat on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 11:47 PM

BABE: Now I know who you got your feistiness from! LOL

-- Posted by gurusmom on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 11:54 PM


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