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Speak Out 6/14/08

Saturday, June 14, 2008

Bikinis and signs

CAN WE be honest? There would have been no problem with the city council if those holding up signs for a mattress company closeout sale had been young women clad in car wash-soliciting bikinis.

Dictating columnist

I OFTEN wonder why the once proud voice of conservatism, National Review, would hire someone like Kathryn Lopez. In her latest column, Lopez has taken to dictating to Catholics how they must vote in the presidential election. Quoting from the Catholic catechism and other sources, Lopez demands that Catholics listen to her and vote accordingly. After reading her column, I would imagine the overwhelming majority of Catholics will breathe a sigh of relief that Lopez lacks the power of excommunication.

Dominion over animals

DESPITE THE fact that the U.S. government is trying to make America into a Third World country, I don't think things have regressed to the point we need to eat our cats and dogs. God gave man dominion over animals, and God also gave us rules about which could be eaten and which could not. Reread your Old Testament to refresh your memory.

Campaign signs

MAYOR JAY Knudtson and the rest of the Cape Girardeau City Council seem to have a problem with signs. They think signs are an eyesore and a nuisance -- until re-election time. Then they will be putting their campaign signs all over town. What hypocrites.

Cape's homelessness

I MOVED to Cape Girardeau four years ago from the suburbs of St. Louis, and I love this town. I am proud to have become apart of the small-town culture where everyone looks out for and is concerned about the community. However, there is one issue in Cape Girardeau that doesn't receive the attention people are capable of giving and overcoming: homelessness. For those who don't think homelessness is a problem in Cape Girardeau, I challenge you to work in a convenience store. Over the past four years I have come into contact with countless individuals in this situation, mostly transients passing through, but many Cape Girardeau residents as well. I always have a pang of regret when I can't offer more than a few phone numbers including First Call for Help and the Salvation Army. Recently, both numbers led to a dead end for a mother and her 4-year-old child who would more than likely be sleeping in their car, again, that evening.

Making a living

THE MAYOR and the council members want to ban sign holders. How many of them would stand for eight hours in a day to make a living? With the price of everything rising, the sign holders should be admired for doing a job most of us wouldn't have the energy to do. Get to more important issues at those meetings.

Church separation

TO THE person who said the purpose of separation of church and state is to keep the state out of the church is wrong. The reason is to keep the church out of the state. Take a look at the previous 1,000 years of European history. Most of our Founding Fathers were not Christians. A good portion were deists. There were many educated men of the time who were atheists. While we have a Christian heritage, we also have a heritage of religious tolerance.

Local justice

KUDOS TO your insightful and incisive editorial on the Josh Kezer case. It is becoming more and more apparent to me that for a long time in some spots in Southeast Missouri, justice in some very serious cases was being sacrificed at the altar of political considerations.

Fact Check
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Cape's homelessness

There are no homeless people in Cape, to the same degree that there are no homosexuals in Saudi Arabia.

Thank you for bringing this problem to our attention.

-- Posted by Liberty_not_Tyranny on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 4:28 AM

Perhaps we shall put the homeless AND homosexuals in the newly created KBR concentration camps? I believe there is one being built on the other side of Scopus, right behind the public library.

-- Posted by Instructor_aka____________ on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 4:34 AM

Catholic voting

If Kathryn Lopez were to exhort me to vote the way that she insists, I would have no problem in tellling her what she could do with her directive. There is a place where the sun doeth not shine. If she is hazy as to where that might be, I would be glad to show her and to insert her exhortation there.

Mainline Prostestants are moving toward the Democrat party. More evangelicals are doing so, as well. Some Catholics are moving toward the GOP, but they are divided between Novos Ordo Catholics and the Traditionalist Catholics in which party they support.

-- Posted by Liberty_not_Tyranny on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 4:34 AM

MAYOR JAY Knudtson

Knudtson and the city council are not from your economic class, so they have no regard for your plight, nor, that of others who work ther butts off to make a living.

You really should show up at the STUDY sessions of the council which are held at 5pm the Monday before the regular council session. They are sure eye openers.

Loretta feels that there are strained relations between the City and the University. Even though, this council has dropped it's pants and bent over, every time that the University has come before it and floated one of their hairbrained schemes. Cape taxpayers bought them a new gym, known to the public as the Show Me Center. The Cape Taxpayer has built them **** dancing and prancing palace, known as the River Campus. The Cape Taxpayer is installing fiber optic telephone lines between the central campus and the river campus, even though Cape Taxpayers do not have Fiber Optic service for themeselves.

The University should kiss the Cape Taxpayers butts for all that we have given them.

I was sorry to see that Three Rivers is putting their community college plans for Cape on hold, until I realized that Cape already has a community college, Southeast. I call them a community college, because they are sucking this community dry. They are a parasite, a leech, an unwelcome blood sucker permanetly attached to the taxpayers in Cape Girardeau.

-- Posted by Liberty_not_Tyranny on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 4:43 AM


One builder spoke up that he felt that if they built some "affordable" houses in Cape that all these people who drive 30-50 miles to work in Cape would buy these houses because of high gas prices. This person is obviously not aware of the current housing market.

There are already numerous affordable homes in Cape recently vacated due to the stampede of people moving from Cape to Jackson.

Also, perhaps both residents of a distant household are not employed in Cape. I doubt very seriously if these people would consider moving to Cape Girareau so that they could have their butts heavily taxed day after day by the current regime in power within this city. Again, Jackson realtors are doing a brisk business as Cape residents, pull up their stakes and move to greener pastures, were the city government cares more about them, than trying to build palaces to their own egos, like the long delayed new library, soccer field we voted twice not to build, the SEMO U gym, aka the Show Me Center, the Osage Building, and a bunch more projects where the council has squandered our money. Not to mention, the sparkly new city slogan, and a mayor who talks about branding, but has no idea in hell what it means. They were suckers for a promotion company, and were fleeced like a lamb for slaughter by smooth talking city folk who saw the rubes of Cape and took them for tens of thousands of our tax dollars for the dandy slogan...."WHERE THE RIVER TURNS A THOUSAND TAILS." I see Cape "branded" as a place where the prostitutes are plentiful, with an incredibly high rate of "productivity", (cause it takes quite a bit of effort to turn a thousand tails) Their new slogan makes it sound like men can have one hell of a time in Cape Girardeau. Well, I guess that is not a bad image, but it sure isn't the "brand" that I would have chosen to identify with Cape. I liked the Roses and nice place to live theme that we had up until about 1984 when city taxpayers and homeowners started really getting hammered by the City and the Unversity's hair brained schemes. However, their "turning tails" brand really is more realistic and in keeping with the way that the Mayors, and the City Councils have been s-c-r-e-w-ing Cape taxpayers for the last 25 years.

Hello, Jackson, got any room left?

-- Posted by Liberty_not_Tyranny on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 5:05 AM


I forgot to mention the coming, in despite of recent drought years, of the Jay Knutson Memorial Water Park and Discoteque.

Here is another white elephant, that sounds good on paper but is going to be a real drain on Cape Girardeau taxpayers, as sales taxes continue to decline in the city over the coming bad years ahead.

Regardless of what the paper quoted him as saying.... HEY, JAY, WINNING THE WATER PARK SCHEME BY ONLY 500 VOTES, IS NOT A MANDATE!

-- Posted by Liberty_not_Tyranny on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 5:17 AM


I mentioned earlier that it took a high degree of productivity to turn a thousand tails in Cape. However, upon doing the math, that just isn't so.

Over a years time, to turn a thousand tails in Cape, would only average out to be three tricks a night. I am sure that that goal is already being met by our able stable of prostitutes in Cape. So, where is the inspiration, the lifting of spirts and goals in this new, very expensive slogan that is supposed to "brand" Cape Girardeau? Taint there.

-- Posted by Liberty_not_Tyranny on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 5:26 AM

Morning, folks

Don't forget to fly your flags today.

-- Posted by BABE on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 8:35 AM

Morning BABE ,

thanks for the reminder...

-- Posted by ..Rick on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 9:18 AM

Today also happens to be the United States Army's 233rd birthday.

We'll be coming around establishing block captains in your neighborhoods shortly. Anyone who resists our efforts to relocate you to our central holding facility in Scopus (aka concentration camp) will be shot. All civilians will be fitted with identification chips and transported to the appropriate facility NLT 2300 hrs, 16 Jun 2008.

Have a great day.

-- Posted by Instructor_aka____________ on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 9:27 AM

potato chip ?

why Scopus ? why not Knob Lick , MO ...pop.79

oh yeah..hurry , before the sky falls in !!

-- Posted by ..Rick on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 9:39 AM

I suppose some of you unpatriotic men (and I use the term loosely) fly your flags 'distressed'.

-- Posted by BABE on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 10:14 AM

..err , Babe

..unpatriotic women (and I use the term loosely), too..

-- Posted by ..Rick on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 10:21 AM

Morning all

Sounds like another interesting day.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 10:22 AM

morning semoangel70

..yup , another day at the zoo...

-- Posted by ..Rick on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 10:24 AM


LOL....and Happy Birthday.

-- Posted by BABE on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 10:26 AM


I don't know the zoo may be less stressful!


Thanks for the reminder I had totally forgotten what today was.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 10:29 AM


You're welcome. I was glancing at the new flag codes this morning. I was remembering a crazy old aunt of mine. She took the flag that was on her husband's casket and reupholstered a chair with it. When the family found out they disowned her.

-- Posted by BABE on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 10:47 AM


While I would not want to upholster a chair with the flag maybe the aunt was just wanting to feel close to him and thought sitting on the flag would do that. Who knows but I am sure every family has that excentric person in it even those that wish to deny it.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 11:39 AM

As far as Church and State...You need go go back and do some reading...The Church don't need the State. The State does need the church!

TIM Russet,

One great man. The only one I truly trusted!

God be with the family!


Seems that the mayor of Cape isn't the only problem! In Bollinger county, we have a man running for comminiser who seems not to know that he is not allowed to put signs up on county or state right of way. But no one will say anything about it because he's been apart of the county for over fifty years and has a successful bussiness. Mr. Francies, "Tear those signs down".

-- Posted by bcman on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 12:06 PM

LNT - you have a lot of opinions but are really misinformed.

-- Posted by insider63785 on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 1:14 PM

I, too am a life-long resident of Cape. I have often wondered why we don't have a shelter for the down-trodden in our community. With all of the churches in town it seems like maybe they could all form a coalition to maintain a shelter for those less=fortunate that would bring out the "good Samaritan" in all of us.

-- Posted by sosassy on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 2:19 PM


If you need help getting that shelter started, post me. I'm not on every day, but I'll be on the lookout for you. You see, the problem is that no one has the capital or time to start the project without government or grant involvement. Then if the grant runs out... no shelter. I know a lot of folks on here have been saying that jobs are plentiful and people just aren't looking hard enough, but I understand the plight of a lot of people. If you get a minimum wage job at McDonald's, you may be able to get food stamps, but if you get a raise and make over the limit, you get cut off. That makes sense on paper, but if the raise you got goes to the grocery bill because you lost your assistance, you can never get ahead. I think they should allow 6 months to a year for people to make over the cutoff limit for assistance, before they get cut off. That way people can get a little put back and get on their feet before they stop receiving help.

-- Posted by happy1a on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 2:59 PM

Pop has our flag out, BABE. Re: your aunt's upholstering project, remember the old adage: "Use it up or wear it out, Make it do or do without." That's probably what she had in mind. So...LOL...guess she thought she'd put the flag to better use than storing it in a trunk? Good story--Hope it was his favorite chair, at least! I always loved the eccentrics in our family stories!

Thanks for the info on Army B.day, Instructor. I didn't realize that.

McSame...I'm betting BABE knows "...a little history...in flying the flag at half-mast..." However, I admit that I don't. I was under the impression that flying at half-mast was to honor military personnel, political figures such as a president/former president, etc., so you could probably correct me on that? Maybe we can fly them at half-mast for anyone we admired?

As for "distressed," is that flying the flag upside down?

-- Posted by gurusmom on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 3:08 PM


What are the KBR camps you mentioned? (Sorry if I missed something, I just have an inquisitive mind.)

-- Posted by happy1a on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 3:10 PM


I thought distressed was upside down too, and maybe used mainly for ships?

There is a flag day website and any flag procedures website will explain flag etiquette. I was reading one yesterday and the only thing I remember seeing about half-staff flying was that there are only certain officials with the authority to order it, although it has been improperly ordered and observed in the past. Some feel it is disrespectful to the flag to fly it half-staff if the appropriate order hasn't been sent out. This way people are only observing it at the appropriate times and not when they alone may feel it necessary.

-- Posted by happy1a on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 3:21 PM

Hi GurusMom

LOL about my great aunt. You may be right but most thought she was just a fruitcake. Back in 'those days' everyone was horrified to see the flag mutilated in such a fashion. Adults respected the flag and taught their children to do so. Since you are 'ancient' as per Herr's definition, do you remember holding the flag in school and being scared to death it would touch the floor? LOL

I was taught that only the POTUS, the governor or a mayor could request that the flag be flown at half-mast. But we have a new poster here now that will be glad to inform us.

-- Posted by BABE on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 3:36 PM


Oh, I forgot to add that flying the flag upside down is a distress signal that is used usually at sea. Some Katrina flood victims used it on their rooftops to signal that help was needed.

As usual, though, some radical anti-governments pride themselves on flying the flag upside down as a childish protest.

-- Posted by BABE on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 3:44 PM


I don't know if you were referring to me as the new poster, but if you were the link is www.usflag.org/flagetiquette.html

Go to the left side of the screen and click on FAQ. The last paragraph explains the past improper usage of half-staff observation.

BTW, I didn't mean to imply in my previous post that Mr. Russert was not worthy of half-staff, only that it may not be appropriate to fly the flag that way today unless it is ordered by the appropriate official.

-- Posted by happy1a on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 3:50 PM


No, I was not referring to you as a new poster. I was referring to Mr McSame as the one who will. LOL

-- Posted by BABE on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 4:05 PM

Ah, I see. Then I respectfully stand down and defer all flag questions to the knowledge of President McSame Almighty. :)

Sorry to have interfered.

-- Posted by happy1a on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 4:21 PM

That's ok, I've always found older men to be sexy, although 900+ years old might be a stretch! (Don't worry, I'm a woman.)

And if by hickory and waterboard you mean BBQ and a slip-n-slide, count me in! I'll take that punishment any day of the week and like it... respectfully, of course, Mr. President.

-- Posted by happy1a on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 5:01 PM

All hail King McSame, the Almighty Dictator!!


-- Posted by happy1a on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 5:16 PM

sosassy & happy1

Good points from both of you, about shelters for homeless, and the food stamp comments. IMO, if the government turned over all the money spent on those type of programs to the private sector, things might be run better, more efficiently.

Aw, BABE, did you HAVE to mention that..."...Since you are 'ancient' as per Herr's definition..." But no, I don't remember holding a flag--think that duty was always given to the boys back in those Dark Ages. LOL


I suspect BABE wasn't referring to you as the "new poster." ;-) No, didn't think you meant to imply anything at all about Mr. Russert/half-mast. Oops, I see that was clarified...Personally, enjoying your comments today--reasonable and knowledgeable, thank you!

-- Posted by gurusmom on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 5:28 PM


Thank you. I try to fluctuate between reasonable and knowledgeable. I think my success rate is about 50/50 in either mode on any given day! I just thought Babe might not have seen me post before because I only post every other weekend when I'm working. When I know things, I'm willing to share knowledge, when I don't know things, I shut my mouth or ask questions. That usually keeps me out of too much trouble.

-- Posted by happy1a on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 5:40 PM


I have seen your posts and am sorry you can't post more often. I always enjoy reading your input and I'm sure others do also.

-- Posted by BABE on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 6:16 PM

Thank you, also, Babe. While I think you and I probably differ on many things, I think if we try hard enough, we could always find something to respect in some of the statements of others. I have my own opinions about a lot of things, but I usually try to respect the right of someone else to have a differing opinion. My mother is staying with my husband and me while she is getting her radiation treatments so I'm getting a lot of practice at respecting differing opinions!! I love her, but we disagree on a lot of political and moral topics. I guess that's what makes the world a colorful, yet somewhat tense, place.

-- Posted by happy1a on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 6:29 PM

happy1 KBR Detention Camps

....built you you and me, so that we may live our lives happily......in the New World Order.

Here is a link to the January, 2006 press release still archived at the Halliburton website. KBR, was, at that time, a subsidiary of Halliburton.

Please pay particular note to the reference to these camps being built in case there is an emergency influx of immigrants, OR, NEW PROGRAMS AS THEY RAPIDLY DEVELOP.

Since we know that this war criminal adminstration has no problem with flooding America with job hungry, near staving Mexicans and OTM's, then it is the NEW PROGRAMS that may rapidly develop, that concerns me.

here you go... HALLIBURTON's own website about building concentration camps in the US.


"The contract, which is effective immediately, provides for establishing temporary detention and processing capabilities to augment existing ICE Detention and Removal Operations (DRO) Program facilities in the event of an emergency influx of immigrants into the U.S., or to support the rapid development of new programs."

-- Posted by Liberty_not_Tyranny on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 7:22 PM

John_McSame Catholics and the National Review

I can't speak for all Catholics, but there was a time, many years ago, back around the time of Reagan, that I did read the National Review.

Thank God, I came to my senses in less than a years time. The National Review, and it's staff, were neoconservatives, masked as conservative God, Mom and Apple Pie Americans. I began to question Buckley, and my search for my real political self began.

I find it a bit distasteful that she should write an article saying that Catholics need to vote for Republcians, in the same way that I would find it distasteful for a woman to write that women need to vote for Hillary, or, a black writing that all blacks need to support Obama. Elections are serious business. The sex, religion, or, race of a candidate is the least important issue of all, if indeed it should even be an issue. If the issue is to have a woman as president, why not elect Lizzie Borden..."Lizzie Borden took an axe and gave her mother 40 wacks When she saw what she had done she gave her father 41". Just because she did this deed, should not preclude her from being a candidate for President, if all we are looking for in the candidate is a woman.

Consequently, if we only look at the race of a candidate and vote race, say black, then why not put Idi Amin on the ticket? Idi has previous presidential experience, and, therefore, he is a well qualified candidate,is he not, if we are only considering race.

It is the character, credibilty, vision and adherence to the Constitution, that should dictate our choices for President, Congress, or, whatever office. Not whether they are Catholic, evangelical, Muslim, black, white, brown, yellow, male, female, or, sexually ambiguous.

However, most Americans are not sophisticated enough to vote on the issues, because they really don't know the issues. They will vote AGAINST someone because they are blac, Mormon, Muslim, or, Catholic, and vote for someone because they are a woman.


-- Posted by Liberty_not_Tyranny on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 7:45 PM

Ditto on BABE's comments, happy1!

You sound like a really "put-together" person...I like that! Wish you were on more often.

And how wonderful, taking care of your mother! Know what you mean...my mom and I differ on a LOT of things, but IMO, respect is the key.

Off for a while again...Have a great evening, everyone!

-- Posted by gurusmom on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 8:06 PM

Some other places to learn more about FEMA camps:

1. Google REX84

2.Google Continuity of government

3. Go to YouTube and search for Rex84

Others on here will say this is crazy, but don't believe me see for yourself and make up your own mind.

-- Posted by Thought Criminal on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 8:06 PM

Happy1, don't listen to the fu*king conspiracy nut cases on here. They think black helicopters are circling their homes so they paint out their windows, never throw any trash away and build high fences to obscure the view....they hate this country and want nothing more for all of us to fail.

Speaking of flag day.......on an active duty post, every day at 1700 the flag is brought down (retreat). The post comes to a standstill, all soldiers outside face the direction of the music/flag and salute. All cars must pull over and any uniformed personnel exit to render a salute.

Neat thing to see and even better to participate.

-- Posted by Instructor_aka____________ on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 8:23 PM

The presidential primary season is finally over, and it is now time for gun owners to take a careful look at just where apparent nominee Barack Obama stands on issues related to the Second Amendment. During the primaries, Obama tried to hide behind vague statements of support for “sportsmen” or unfounded claims of general support for the right to keep and bear arms.

But his real record, based on votes taken, political associations, and long standing positions, shows that Barack Obama is a serious threat to Second Amendment liberties. Don’t listen to his campaign rhetoric! Look instead to what he has said and done during his entire political career.


FACT: Barack Obama voted to allow reckless lawsuits designed to bankrupt the firearms industry.1

FACT: Barack Obama wants to re-impose the failed and discredited Clinton Gun Ban.2

FACT: Barack Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.3

FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership.2

FACT: Barack Obama supports local gun bans in Chicago, Washington, D.C., and other cities.4

FACT: Barack Obama voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people who use firearms in self-defense.5

FACT: Barack Obama supports gun owner licensing and gun registration.6

FACT: Barack Obama refused to sign a friend-of-the-court Brief in support of individual Second Amendment rights in the Heller case.

FACT: Barack Obama opposes Right to Carry laws.7

FACT: Barack Obama was a member of the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation, the leading source of funds for anti-gun organizations and “research.”8

FACT: Barack Obama supported a proposal to ban gun stores within 5 miles of a school or park, which would eliminate almost every gun store in America.9

FACT: Barack Obama voted not to notify gun owners when the state of Illinois did records searches on them.10

FACT: Barack Obama voted against a measure to lower the Firearms Owners Identification card age minimum from 21 to 18, a measure designed to assist young people in the military.11

FACT: Barack Obama favors a ban on standard capacity magazines.12

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory micro-stamping.13

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory waiting periods.2

FACT: Barack Obama supports repeal of the Tiahrt Amendment, which prohibits information on gun traces collected by the BATFE from being used in reckless lawsuits against firearm dealers and manufacturers.14

FACT: Barack Obama supports one-gun-a-month sales restrictions.9

FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on inexpensive handguns.9

FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on the resale of police issued firearms, even if the money is going to police departments for replacement equipment.9

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory firearm training requirements for all gun owners and a ban on gun ownership for persons under the age of 21.9

1. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 219, July 2, 2005. (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/ro...)

2. Independent Voters of Illinois/Independent Precinct Organization general candidate questionnaire, Sept. 9, 1996. The responses on this survey were described in “Obama had greater role on liberal survey,” Politico, March 31, 20087. (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/030...)

3. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 217, Kennedy amendment July 2, 2005. (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/ro...)

4. David Wright, Ursula Fahy and Sunlen Miller, "Obama: 'Common Sense Regulation' On Gun Owners' Rights," ABC News' "Political Radar" Blog, http://blogs.abcnews.com, 2/15/08. (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/...)

5. Illinois Senate, March 25, 2004 SB 2165, vote 20.

6. “Fact Check: No News In Obama's Consistent Record.” Obama ’08, December 11, 2007. (http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck/200...)

7. “Candidates' gun control positions may figure in Pa. vote,” Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, Wednesday, April 2, 2008, and "Keyes, Obama Are Far Apart On Guns," Chicago Tribune, 9/15/04. (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbur...)

8. 1998 Joyce Foundation Annual Report, p. 7. (http://www.joycefdn.org/pdf/98_AnnualRep...)

9. “Obama and Gun Control,” The Volokh Conspiracy, taken from the Chicago Defender, Dec. 13, 1999. (http://www.volokh.com/posts/1203389334.s...)

10. Illinois Senate, May 5, 2002, SB 1936 Con., vote 26.

11. Illinois Senate, March 25, 2003, SB 2163, vote 18.

12. “Clinton, Edwards, Obama on gun control,” Radio Iowa, Sunday, April 22, 2007. (http://learfield.typepad.com/radioiowa/2...)

13. Chicago Tribune blogs, “Barack Obama: NIU Shootings call for action,” February 15, 2008, (http://blogs.trb.com/news/politics/blog/...)

14. Barack Obama campaign website: “As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment . . .” (http://www.barackobama.com/issues/urbanp....)

-- Posted by Instructor_aka____________ on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 8:27 PM


In your cute little way, are you trying to say that Obama is against our right to keep and bear arms?

When he was Attoney General, John Ashcroft said that he supported the citizens right to bear arms, but with the states right to make laws effecting that right. In other words, he didn't support our rights.

This war criminal, bush, has filed a brief with the US Supreme Court, hearing the Washington, D.C. case. That brief pretty much says the same thing that Ashcroft said. Youz gots the right, but wez gots the right to control that right in the way that the state, meaning the federal government of bush and war crimes incorporated sees fit.

No one supports your right to bear arms. Get over it. It is going to come down to whether you believe in your rights, or, if you will acceed to the the governments imposition upon your rights.

I still think it is so cute that you posted that you would meet the confiscators at your front door with your 9mm and shotgun. What, to turn them in so they won't have to come in and search your house, while they hold a CAR, or, MP5 on your kid?

You and the good ole, "they can have my gun when they pry it from my cold dead fingers" crowd of idiots, have not a clue as to what it will take to save our rights, if they come door to door to confiscate our weapons. All of you are going to end up dead, because they **** well intend to pry if from your cold dead fingers, if that is what it takes to get your weapons. They hope like hell that you will each stay in your respective homes and wait for them to come to collect them. Their worst nightmare is if you and a few of your friends go mobile and meet and greet them on your own terms and contact them on ground and in situtations that are favorable to you.

Good luck, dru. Truly, good luck.

-- Posted by Liberty_not_Tyranny on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 8:46 PM


Oh my God, I laughed so hard at your conspiracy post. I love a good debate and would give a million dollars, if I had it, to put you, farjar, chaffee mp, infowarior, and liberty in one room. You guys crack me up. The passion, on both sides, is unsurpassed. I don't mean anything sarcastic by that. I seriously love it when people stand up for what they believe. I may actually have to try to make it to a lunch one day, because I would love to meet both sides. You all keep me informed and entertained all at once. Thank you!

-- Posted by happy1a on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 8:49 PM


It kind of sounds like you are in favor of citizens owning guns. I don't think that's a bad thing but if that's how you feel, I think you might be agreeing with Dru on something. Or do I have it wrong, and are you saying that if we didn't have guns to begin with, they wouldn't come to take them away. I'm just trying to be clear on where you stand. Once again, I love you guys. Such passion!

-- Posted by happy1a on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 8:55 PM

We'll be coming around shortly to establish block captains to keep the civilians in line. Weapons will be confiscated and you will be detained at the KBR concentration camp in Scopus. We are currently training soldiers in MOUT operations to accomplish this mission. I am awfully proud that I am contributing to law and order in this country.

You can thank me when I get home. Sleep well at night knowing that Fajar, LittleMac and I are contributing to protecting your rights. Have a great evening!!!

-- Posted by Instructor_aka____________ on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 8:56 PM

REX 84

Before the national talk show host, chuck harder, got ate up with neoconism, he did many shows on OPERATION GARDEN PLOT. If I remember correctly, it is the Air Force's version of REX 84, at least the plan is similar.

Chuck went off the deep end after 9-11, became a true neocon, called the Afghani people, "cave monkeys" and I never called his program since. The last time that I called, I abnomished him for calling the Afghanis "Cave Monkeys."

Chuck began to talk about his grandmother being Jewish, or, part Jewish, then he would have William Kristol on to sub for him when he would have to take leave for medical reasons.

Chuck went from being a true citizen gaurdian of government to either a neocon, or, a cozy conspirator to neoconservatism. I guess the neocons worked on him from the point that he had Jewish blood in him. Chuck is smart enough to know that not all Jews subscribe to neoconservatism, nor, even to Zionism, so I am perplexed that he would be decived so easily.


-- Posted by Liberty_not_Tyranny on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 9:00 PM

All of us in the same room? What a fu*king joke. The conspiracy nut jobs wouldn't have the balls to confront us in a physical confrontation.

As a matter of fact, at least one of the folks on the "other side" hasn't seen his testicles or anything else below his HUGE belly in years.....

Time to go "harvest" some civilians. Gotta go.

-- Posted by Instructor_aka____________ on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 9:03 PM

60's VIDEO clips and MUSIC tonight on PBS

WSIU-TV PBS, Charter Cable channel 8, is having their telethon tonight.

From 8:00pm to 10:00pm they will feature music and video clips of artists from the 1960's.

From 10:00pm to 11:30pm, they will have an Irish music program

-- Posted by Liberty_not_Tyranny on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 9:05 PM

Dru, honey, I didn't mean a fight or anything, just a face to face debate. Perhaps we should hold the debate in the outdoor yard at a nearby prison, you know the kind where each person has their own cage-like structure, for the safety of everyone involved. Have a great night Dru.

-- Posted by happy1a on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 9:08 PM

To those of you who are truly military...

This is my rifle...

This is my gun....

This is for war...

This is for fun...

Please Instructor....I am sure you don't mean they want your gun!

-- Posted by Theorist on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 9:09 PM


Your post of 1903 about the flag and retreat was sooooo refreshing and uplifting in this sea of anti-government garbage again today.

-- Posted by BABE on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 9:11 PM

happy1 GUNS

Oh, Dru and I have commonailty when it comes to the ownership of guns. I do believe that it is a right, that as the 2nd Amendment clearly states, shall not be infringed. His president and his presidents former AG, John Ashcroft says that that the 2nd Amendment can be infringed by the "state" in this case, the state means the Federal Government.

Dru and some others think that they can wait until the confiscators come to their homes, and, perhaps, they will resist... "pry my cold dead figners" and all...

I just do not see the tactical advantage to doing so. If you are in a house, etc. they are trained to come in and get you, or, to burn your house down around you, if necessary. What I was specualting, because I am no tactician, is that it would be much better, if once you have made up your mind to resist confiscation, that you joined with others, and went mobile, in search of the confiscators and met them on your terms and chose the point and time of contact.

Stay in holed up, they will get you. By going mobile, they still may get you, but you would make their day a hell of a lot more interesting.

-- Posted by Liberty_not_Tyranny on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 9:14 PM


I have had the privilege to be on bases with my son when Retreat was sounded; still get misty eyed thinking about it. It is truly a sight to behold.

-- Posted by Alt Ctrl Del on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 9:18 PM

Dominion over animals

Who said they were going to eat their dog? I'm not rich, but I think I'd eat grass before I turned my utensils on Fluffy, Phoebe, and Baby! Those are my three loving kitty cats.

Church Separation

I used to think the church should have some say in government affairs, but the older I get, the more I think they should leave each other alone. The state kicked out the church quite some time ago, in many respects so the church should be allowed to follow suit. That means that the government should never be allowed to tell any church what they can or cannot teach, as long as it is not physically harming someone.

Freedom of speech and religion, you know?

Well I'm out for the night. Sleep well, all. I'll be back tomorrow, unless Dru rounds me up for his camps before then!! ;D

-- Posted by happy1a on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 9:20 PM

Poppa, you need to settle the hell down. Everything I was saying was a joke.....Making fun of the conspiracy nut cases. Go back to the beginning of the day and read the first posts for more insight.

I am very much pro-Second Amendment. I have a concealed carry license and exercise my right to carry every day.

Trust me, I would NEVER under any circumstances try to disarm American citizens. We protect, not destroy.

-- Posted by Instructor_aka____________ on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 10:06 PM

And poppa, don't fu*king threaten me. You implied my father would need to be there to identify me. Way out of line as*hole.

-- Posted by Instructor_aka____________ on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 10:11 PM

What kind of person I am? You have NO IDEA, no more so than I know anything about you.

How about a guy who has a wife and five wonderful children? Served in the military over 21 years and still going. I could go on and on but it makes no difference. There is absolutely no way for you or anyone else to judge someone based on posting at this site.

-- Posted by Instructor_aka____________ on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 10:45 PM

Hey poppa! fu*k off and have a good evening. Don't bother attempting to engage me in the future. I won't respond.

-- Posted by Instructor_aka____________ on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 11:00 PM

Everyone have a great evening. I have to get up at 0-dark-thirty again tomorrow. Every day is a duty day during the cycle so Saturday and Sunday is no different than any other day.

We have soldiers to train so I am off to hit the rack.

-- Posted by Instructor_aka____________ on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 11:18 PM

It is amazing to me that some people think it is a crazy notion that this government could be seen as corrupt and evil by those of us who take the time to study history and compare it with the present.Yes, even the sanitized version of history that we are allowed by the elite to read.

Governments throughout history have killed more of their own citizens than those who were killed by war. In the 20th century alone, nearly 200 million people were killed by their own psychopathic rulers. All governments eventually turn corrupt and evil and the one we have is no exception.

When some of us post here and try to point that out, and try to get the people to wake up and try to prevent tyranny and genocide here, we are called crazy and conspiracy nuts. Well, I do admit to believing in conspiracies, but I am certainly not a nut case. It is ludicrous for anyone to say they "don't believe in conspiracies." Anytime two or more people plot to do anything it is a conspiracy by definition.

I don't expect people to believe everything I say without doing their own research first. I try to give the facts and references as best I can. I may not always be 100% correct, but I try my best. No one really argues what I say with their own refuting facts, they just name call. That is the easy and cowardly way to argue.

Sigmund Freud's nephew, Edward Bernays, was first to use psychological techniques for advertising. He later used those same techniques to sell WWl to the public. We have been fed Madison Avenue type official propaganda for at least 100 years in this country and most of it has been to condition us to accept war. It is also being used through T.V., Hollywood movies, and music to condition us that "sure our government has some flaws," but they have our best interests at heart. They have also trained the "mockingbirds" to shout down and dismiss most dissent

You can watch an excellent free video about Bernays on Google made by the BBC called The Century of Self. It will blow your mind learning how much of what you believe has been programmed for you to believe. Don't believe me folks, watch the video if you dare.


-- Posted by Thought Criminal on Sun, Jun 15, 2008, at 12:14 AM

Not everyone in the military is as vile as he is. Most of us are educated and intelligent and have a moral set of values.

-- Posted by Marine5151 on Sun, Jun 15, 2008, at 12:15 AM

Marine5151 - dru is going to get mad at you and call you names. I thought he was the ONLY person in the military. I was thinking he was the reason they say we're winning the WOT. I might be wrong.

-- Posted by DickCheney on Sun, Jun 15, 2008, at 12:43 AM

"The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind,"

-- Posted by SaviorBreath on Sun, Jun 15, 2008, at 12:00 PM

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