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Saturday, July 4, 2015

Speak Out 5/31/08

Saturday, May 31, 2008

Some benefits

I WILL be glad when gasoline gets to $10 per gallon. There will be less traffic, and the streets will not wear out as quickly.

Snowball effect

DON'T PEOPLE realize that when the price of gasoline goes up, other things are affected? Motorists won't be going anywhere because they can't afford gas, which means people won't be buying other things, which will hurt the economy.

Can't afford it

GASOLINE PRICES, utilities, food -- everything is going up except our pay. How is a person supposed to make ends meet? There is too much month at the end of the money. Something has to be done, and the government is not going to do it. God help us all.

Moped regulations

THERE IS no reason why moped riders should not be held to the same standards as motorcyclists. Helmets, insurance and licenses should all be mandatory.

Pay it forward

WHILE FINISHING my Chinese meal with ice cream, I saw a man at the register paying his bill. We made eye contact, and I heard him saying to the man at the register,"Pay for her meal too." I said, "You don't have to do that." He said, "Yes I do!" He paid the bill and walked out the door. I was shocked and felt very special because of his act of generosity. His actions reminded me of the movie about a boy who "paid it forward." How many times do people give without wanting anything in return? So many times we see the dark side of life. This man gave me a lift. I want to thank him. His actions made my day.

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morning folks

-- Posted by ..Rick on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 7:14 AM

We all should get use to the high gas prices even going higher. This also includes food cost, utilities, phone, health care, and other items we need each and every day. We can not support two wars going on at the same time that is costing us 12 billion dollars per month without any help from our allies. Also, the mortage crisis which has not even peaked yet and will have a price tag of about 800 billion dollars by the time this is all over. We have no money we are up to our eye balls in debt to other countries we have borrowed money from. That is why the election in November is so important so we can elect new leadership and not repeat the last eight years.

-- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 8:36 AM

there is an obese person who lives down the road

that owns one of those scooters ...it's the funniest

thing to see him go flying by on it , it reminds me

of a bear i saw at the circus one time ...

-- Posted by ..Rick on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 8:42 AM

swampeastmo. you have it right, we cant continue like the last 8 years......................dang!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hope the new baby and family are doing well.

-- Posted by changedname on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 8:45 AM

who's to say the three running for president will be any different then the last 8 years ?

-- Posted by ..Rick on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 9:28 AM

Ok, it is official. Instructor, Who Me?, and Little Mac have been a bad influence and going to make me lose my standing as a bleeding heart Liberal Dem.

If we raise the pay to help with the rising costs, then the costs will continue to rise. I understand things are getting more costly. But, if we raise what the employer pays out in payroll, then the employer will have to raise cost for their product. Or take less of a profit. (ooops sorry slipped back into Lib/soc mode. lol)

I don't know where to look at the moment to correct the current rise in costs. Just not sure the only answer is a pay increase. Though I wouldn't say no to one. Just my opinion and admittedly can be wrong. (That happens a lot to me lately.)

-- Posted by Pups on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 9:31 AM


I am sure there was a lot to take in. I know it's real before the actual birth, but seems to be so REAL when they actually arrive. Weird question, do you know when they 'foot printed' Daegus? Was it a couple hours after I saw you? I only ask, because I think I saw them printing him, but not sure.

-- Posted by Pups on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 9:37 AM

Congratulations on the new baby.

-- Posted by KingsKid on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 9:52 AM

Pups, Pay raises and the cost of products

Don't be too hasty to adopt foreign thinking as gospel.

For years, companies have given pay raises, or, added benefits without increasing the cost of their products, or, services. If they do raise their prices, it was very little.

Now, we have some sectors of our economy, energy being one, where they have adopted a greed mentality and are running full steam without any restraints. Some of our costs in energy is pushed by greed, and some of it is pushed relentlessly by wall street speculators, like goldman sachs. It appalls me that they can rape us, then, when they get in a minor jam, like their greed lusts in the mortgage industry, that you, your parents, the checker at K-Mart, and all the lowly paid hourly workers are forced to bail their filthy rich a*sses out.

As the cost of production, service, and distribution goes up due to their greed and avarice, then your costs for other products in addition to gas,like , food, rent, et al, goes up, because some producers haven't been raping you, they have been living on the margins that they had for years, staying alive, staying competitive, and still giving raises to their employees. Now comes a huge increase in their costs. They will have to pass it along to you, due to the greed of the profiteers. Some, sad to say, will tag on a little extra, and use the greed of the oil companies as an excuse.

I still say, that the quickest, the best way to get back to 99Cent a gallon gas is to harvest a few speucaltors, and oil company execs. Unfortuantely, my attorney tells me that that type of action is still unlawful in the United States. The only good thing about China, is that they execute those outside the clique, who are caught profiteering, or, being corrupt.

I remember the execution of the Mayor of Beijing. He was convicted of corruption. One of the executive class who was responsible for either the toy, or, dog food scandal was executed. Now, that is positive management. I say that we contact Joann Emerson and suggest that she author a bill that would give us the same protections from corruption and profiteering that the communisst Chinese are afforded.

There would be economic growth if we had such a harvesting plan. Just like in the olden days of America, throngs would turn out to see the public execution of the head of Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase, UNOCAL, EXXON, etc. and people would be there to seel sandwiches, ice cream, Beer, wine, megaphones to taunt and dolls in the likeness of the soon to be executed. This could be a growth cottage industry. The retail sale of goods at the executions, and the making of the dolls, etc. that would be sold there. I figure it would be as good as the promised so-called "green jobs" that Obama, McCain, and Hillary are lying about.

I like peace, but if the CEO's of Halliburton, Blackwater, and UNOCAL were to be done next Saturday, I would show up with a picnic basket and a jug of Shiraz.

Mind you now, it is not legal for an independent action of harvestation of globalists, therefore, we must work with our congressional delegation to put such legislation forward that would allow public executions for corruption and profiteering, just as our good friends, the Communist Chinese have in their fine country. One can dream, can't they?

-- Posted by Liberty_not_Tyranny on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 10:17 AM

To all the doom and gloom people out there. Think of what grand and great grand parents went through in the great depression. They would laugh at all of there proginy sitting out there wailing "WOE IS ME!"

-- Posted by LEGION63 on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 10:20 AM

Pups, you are sooo the man. Laissez-faire capitalism is the only choice for true market stability. The more our government messes with something the worse off it gets. Let supply and demand work and bring on the electric car!

-- Posted by Donnie on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 10:22 AM

We do not have a free market, we have managed markets, and a managed economy in the form of globalism. The government is all over our economy, and markets. We do not have a lez-be-fair economy at all, that is why it is not working.

-- Posted by Liberty_not_Tyranny on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 10:30 AM


Thats kind of my point. Not the globalization part but the part about the government being too involved in the market place. They need to get back to a place where they simply secure the borders and protect our constitutional rights. Leave everything else to work ethic, supply and demand. Who is John Galt?

-- Posted by Donnie on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 10:35 AM

Morning all

Fuel prices are continuing to rise as is everything else that we go and buy at the store. It would be nice if wages could match the increases but that is not plausible. Many places would go out of business because they would start operating at a loss if all employees were paid enough to match the prices. I would love a raise as I am sure everyone else would.

Trucking companies are getting hit hard with diesel being so high. We had our mechanic set all of our trucks and now they will not go over 68 mph. We have some very unhappy drivers but when your fuel bill reaches 27k for 2 weeks something has to be done.

I always thought I was more middle of the road than conservative or liberal but I too am finding that is changing. Several on here have made some very good points I have pondered and saw were valid even if hard to admit mine were wrong.


Hope you and baby are doing great.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 11:33 AM


Our trucks have already been set back once, but am worried it will happen again. It's very expensive to buy fuel, and we do our best to stop at the cheapest places that we are allowed to fuel at, plus we don't idle unless it is extremely hot or cold. We even get out and get a hotel room if we know we are going to be stuck for over a day. Aggie is thinking on switching companies to someone that pays more with the same or more benefits. Thinking on moving out of state which I am not to thrilled about at the moment. I prefer to stay here near my folks, kids, grandkids, and want to be here for my new grandbaby as well. It's a very worrisome time for me right now.


-- Posted by Aggiefan/Twiggy on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 11:43 AM

Thanks, Mel,

I really hope so, I just don't feel that now is the time to move, to much going on.

-- Posted by Aggiefan/Twiggy on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 11:50 AM


Some of our drivers brought it on themselves. We got behind one of our drivers last weekend on the way to St. Louis, my hubby was going 70 and the driver was still way ahead. They were doing nothing to try and conserve fuel so we had to do it for them.

It is hard for all companies right now. My brother-in-law drives for a company that set their trucks back to 55. When you can only drive so many hours before having to stop that is making his trips longer and fewer so his pay has went down.

After one of our drivers put the truck through the building yesterday we might be needing somemore, all local, very few long hauls, decent pay, good benefits. I will let you know if they fire his *** which is what several of us want but my father-in-law keeps giving him second chances.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 11:52 AM

GurusMom and Herr

I think yall will be especially interested in Terry Kinder's blog today. He eats Al Journet's lunch. LOL

-- Posted by BABE on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 11:53 AM


Please do, maybe it is something Aggie would be interested in. One can hope and pray at this point. I can assure he does his best to conserve on fuel though, and has a good driving record.

-- Posted by Aggiefan/Twiggy on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 11:54 AM


It is mainly driving from here to St. Louis sometimes three times a day sometimes two. It would be 5 days a week, weekends are rotated out among the drivers and it is mostly daytime driving although when the one is out the night trips are also rotated. The pay is by the trip for that and not by the mile. Then as needed they may run to West Plains to pick up something and sometimes we have to send one out of state but it isnt often. The guys make decent money and have time off.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 12:07 PM

Thanks, semoangel,

I sent you an email if you want to let me know more, but it sounds pretty good.

-- Posted by Aggiefan/Twiggy on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 12:10 PM


I understand the mortgage meltdown as a bad thing I just donít think the government has business trying to regulate industry. It canít even pay its own bills.

Citing ďauto industries behavior prior to Consumer ReportĒ I would disagree. What happened to Americans in the 70s, 80s? We started buying Toyotas. Supply vs. Demand. American Industry wasnít making its consumers happy and along comes somebody else that wants in the market. Keep your customers or somebody else will take them.

Citing the meet packing industry I would agree that things were terrible in 1901 when Upton Sinclair wrote ďThe JungleĒ. He wrote the Jungle to point out what he saw in the meat packing industry and to rally people around the socialist cause. I agree with him about the unhealthy factory conditions. So what is it I do? I raise my own. Tyson chicken doesnít get any of my money because I donít like their product. Not just me but the people that live around me buy my chicken and eggs too. Grass raised beef sells as quickly as its produced too.

Ma Bell can get as big as they want to but when the customer isnít happy somebody will come along and elbow into the market. That is the good side of greed.

I think Atlas Shrugged should be required reading. Ayn Rand and Upton Sinclair are my two favorite authors. They couldnít be any more different in their views. Sinclair, a socialist, Rand, an individualist, had opposite ideas. I understand Sinclairís work but I believe in Rand with the exception of her philosophy on religion. I think that was her missing piece that she never found.

-- Posted by Donnie on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 12:16 PM

First off, SuperBethie, where did you come up with the name Daegus? Is there a meaning?

I agree with the whole Laizzez-Faire belief in businesses. The government needs to stay out of it. I have no pity for those who have been hit by the housing/mortgage crisis. People are trying to live beyond their means. Everybody has it too easily. Early this year I was house-hunting in Iowa and found a house I really wanted. It was about $450k. I can afford it, but that would be living paycheck to paycheck, so I knew I should get something cheaper. Most people aren't using common sense. The consumers are a major cause of these problems. If consumers would use more common sense and not buy all this excess crap if they can't afford it, then they will be ok. Instead, everybody is worried about keeping up with the Joneses. Everybody here should know what that means as well, being that I am only 26 and I do.

As much as I hold a belief in small government, I have the same feelings as (hold your breath) Liberty Not Tyranny. Nowhere else in the world do CEO's make so much in the world as they do in the US. There is no reason that someone deserves 20 million a year in salary. NOBODY. The government should put a cap on that.

-- Posted by chaffeemp on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 12:22 PM


some of us already live paycheck to paycheck, not by choice either. We don't live beyond our means either, just had some major things happend that couldn't be prevented. Yet their are alot of people out there who do try to live way beyond their means and I don't really feel sorry for them either, it's a shame they are loosing things, but it could have been prevented had they not went crazy thinking they could buy everything they wanted and still live alright. I hope that doesn't sound mean or anything, but I have always had to watch what we spend or buy and do what I thought was best for our family. Of course we are all quilty of buying things we didn't have to have once in a while.


-- Posted by Aggiefan/Twiggy on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 12:27 PM


Congratulations on your new arrival, hope you and Daegus are doing well.

-- Posted by Red_Rhino on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 12:28 PM


You are right about the housing market to a degree. Many of those that have lost their homes have done so because they were as you say living above their means. Some were living the life, managing the bills and had a very comfortable life and then when their business goes overseas or to mexico they find themselves without a job and can no longer find one with the same income. Even local companies here have cut back and laid off their "management" to bring in newer ones for less pay. Maybe they did recieve a salary higher than needed but the fact is they bought while they had the high salary and never dreamed they would not have it.

Personally I feel that a lot of the downward spiral we are seeing now is because the Govnmt waited to long to admit there was an issue. It should have seen there was a problem and started addressing it when all the comapnies started moving to other countries. Back in 1994 Dexter lost one of it major businesses but no one wanted to see there was a problem now it happens everyday. My parents were affected by that shutdown, we had the nice house, new cars etc. after 23 years of being at one job they never dreamed they would go to work one day and find out the job was no longer there. It happens to everyone so you can't always blame the individual who looses everything as they were living above their means.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 12:35 PM


Well, just dang, I was with you right up until your last paragraph. No one should define what any person 'needs'. If a CEO can command a high salary from the stockholders, good for him/her. And I certainly do not want the government to cap salaries based on their interpetion of 'needs' or any other reason.

-- Posted by BABE on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 1:04 PM

We want the govnt involved when it suits us is true but some scream for help without researching what the "help" will cost in the long run. Regulating anything is only a temporary solution to an ongoing problem. The best solution is to first be fully informed of the issue and second to depend on no one to take care of you but instead depend on yourself.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 1:59 PM


Congratulations on the little one! I don't post often, but I read everyday. I've taken special interest in how you were doing since my own daughter was pregnant as well and you were due about the same time. You are going to have such a good time with your sweet boy, and I'm so happy for you. Have a happy day.

-- Posted by Maxine_the_Magnificent on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 2:01 PM

Amen, ChaffeeMP. Although, I can't really fault someone with bad money management skills for wanting a nice home and maybe being lured in by a low rate. But you are correct that it is their mess. Perhaps it is one of those hard lessons that must be learned by losing almost all that you have to see what is important.

Babe, I don't want the gov to tell me what I "need" either, but come on. Who really needs $20 million a year. CEOs get waaay more than their share. I used to work for a major clothing retailer and when they switched to a new CEO, who was supposed to "save" the company in a time of economic slump, he was guaranteed a $45 million salary across 5 years with a $10 million bonus yearly if the profit margins were met each year. He did it by cutting full time hours to part time, and increasing the number of hours for eligibility for benefits. This meant that people who had worked for the company for 25 or 30 years lost their health insurance, vacation, and many took a pay cut because their titles were dropped. I say, talk to them about "needs". He then retired from our company and went to another company to do the same thing. I know you're going to say that he deserves it for being smart and going to multiple companies to make his fortune, but I don't think you have to be smart or hardworking to screw people out of their hard earned money. Nor do I think it is anyone's right to take from those who have less power, just for another dollar.

BTW Turtle, I like your daily greetings...very turtlely of you.

-- Posted by happy1a on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 2:11 PM

No one needs to make millions a year but that is the way it is for some and the ones with the money have all got it at the expense of the "little people" The question is who determines what is a fair salary and what is not? To you and I 100k may be a fair amount but to the next person it could be more or it could be less. Would you really want the government or anyone else for that matter telling you that you made to much money for a job that you do?

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 2:22 PM

RE: Can't afford it

This person probably wastes money on booze, cancer sticks, twinkies, cheetos, and lottery tickets -- just waiting for the gubmint to come in for the rescue.

-- Posted by TommyStix on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 2:26 PM


I'm not going down that slippery slope of defining who 'needs' what salary. There's always someone under your economic status that is defining your 'needs' no matter what the income.

If the stockholders give a CEO a salary you don't like then become a voting stockholder. By the way, some of these CEOs have built their own companies risking their own capitol, hiring employees and putting in long hours to achieve their sucess.

I'm not saying that anyone does not deserve their salaries or perks unless I am paying them.

-- Posted by BABE on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 2:32 PM

Mr turtle,,,,,nothing can be as bad as the last 8 years,,,,,,,,,,,,,,he blew it.

-- Posted by changedname on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 2:35 PM


You are right. I wouldn't want the government to tell me what amount of money I can make. But I also didn't like it when I worked for that company and was told that they were instituting a cap on my salary and I could never make more than $12.50 an hour. Now, I know that's good pay to some and it was to me at the time. Of course I wasn't making anywhere near that yet, but the point is, that was hard to hear when I knew that I was working 35 hours a week, because that's all I was allowed, and some guy with a personal jet was playing golf with other rich guys and getting a salary of millions to tell us that we were getting shafted. Honestly, I don't have a suggested solution for the problem, such as it is, but I'm just saying there has to be something reasonable between $20,000 a year and $15 million, you know?

-- Posted by happy1a on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 2:35 PM


Those with the money still think they do not have enough, those without it think they have to much. You are correct it is a slippery slope and one without a correct answer. We live a comfortable life but I definitly wouldn't turn down a raise and I doubt many would.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 2:35 PM


If CEOs canít make 20 million then why should professional athletes? Then maybe I could afford to take my boys to more than one ballgame a year. You can make that argument in almost every profession. Let the market decide who makes what. That is no place for government.


I know I can come off a little over the top when discussing my views in relation to individualism. Randís work really speaks to me in a real and personal way. I admire somebody whom speaks to what they believe even when society tells them not to. I believe in the ability of a person determining their way instead of the need of their neighbors.

I wonít be on anymore tonight or probably for quite a while. I am about to disassemble the CPU. We fly tomorrow. Off on our new adventure. I have enjoyed mightily having this outlet for discussion. I will post again when we get set back up on the island.

-- Posted by Donnie on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 2:37 PM


I know what you are saying. It is hard to find a good reason why some live in the lap of luxuary while others barely make it by month to month. More and more companies are cutting hours of the employees so they do not meet the requirements for benefits. My husbands family owns a company and they try each year to give all of their employees a raise, this year the employees got one but our salaries all stayed the same, no one is complaining because without our employees we would have no business more need to take that into consideration and as the saying goes share the wealth.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 2:39 PM


Best wishes for you and your family. Hope you all have a safe trip. Will be looking for your postings in the future.

-- Posted by Aggiefan/Twiggy on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 2:39 PM


I don't know, it's been pretty bad before. Also, I'm not sure any of the up and comers have any magical solutions to the problems we have going on now. I think it will be very interesting to see what things are like this time next year. I'm just along for the ride!

-- Posted by happy1a on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 2:40 PM

Donnie is right but it isn't just the atheletes what about the starts who make a few million a pick. We went to the movie a few weeks back and took all three kids by the time we bought the tickets a drink and popcorn we had shelled out over $60. You can't afford to have family time at a game, movie or anything else anymore.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 2:42 PM

Do yall consider professional ball players and movie stars salaries to be within their 'needs'? Just curious.

-- Posted by BABE on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 2:43 PM

Never say it couldn't be worse because IT CAN. Stop and look at how you have it then look around and you can always find someone who has it harder, same with the country. Sure it is rough but look back in history and it has been worse and could be again.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 2:44 PM

Babe, I was a stockholder, I just didn't make enough money to hold the amount of stock to have much of a voice in those types of decisions. As far as voting on things in the company, I guess it's kind of like voting in political elections. You vote for what you want, but that doesn't mean you'll get your way. So I did what you have to in that situation and I sat back and did the best I could do with what I had to work with. Then I got a better job with another company. I was just using that company as an example of what many others have done.

-- Posted by happy1a on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 2:44 PM

Sorry for lengthy post...just this one and I'm gone for the afternoon (no applause, please).


Thanks for your late-night Here Comes Daegus story! Sounds like he was so comfy where he was, he was going to be a little stubborn? ;-) SO, so happy for you, Daddy, and all the family. REST now!

Pups Losing your standing as a Bleeding Heart Liberal Dem? OMG, that's a hilarious statement! However...you certainly are, IMO, correct. Rising prices=Raising pay=raising prices. Seems this has happened before...probably always is going on but not as noticeable as recently...It's kind of like a spiral; each thing affects another. Not being an "economist," I certainly don't know what the solution to it all would be, either.

We do know that many other countries have more energy-efficient transportation (electric and compressed-air cars), and have had for some time. Why is this?

Gotta pretty much agree with you, Donnie (Have a safe trip...We'll miss you!): However, at this point in time, I don't see government involvement ever decreasing, for many various reasons...One of which might be We The People, who now want and/or need it. Like little children, we've become dependent on the "parent," and the "parent" is reluctant to give up power. Does that make any sense to you?

And Me'Lange, you also seem to have a pretty good grasp on some of the problems...For the most part, we Americans, including what we consider the "poverty-level," are not accustomed to doing without things we do not need. Admitting, I'm as guilty as anyone--well, almost as guilty. But I'm trying to do better. LOL

Can't really answer your question about the Mortgage Crisis...Except to speculate that the American Dream of owning a home led SOME people to obtain homes they probably suspected they could not afford. If our govt. had done something like forcing lending institutions to apply stricter regulations, making it more difficult to get a home loan...Would people then have been screaming about that? (Umm, good point, Donnie...And when do you estimate China will be putting a lien on our government property in lieu of repayment of our loans from them? ;-) BTW: Guess I need to read Atlas Shrugged again.

Oh, Aggie! I certainly hope that things get better for you two!

Letter to Editor today...We can "afford" things like the space "exploration," and so many other things our country pays for, but our leaders have seemingly not made energy research a priority.

Scary Idea The govt. dictating how much anyone in this country is allowed to make. Of course, as Pups might say, that's just my opinion. However, try to think about...Maybe the government could just pass a law saying all wages will be the same, or putting a cap on salaries? Really, put the thought processes to work and think of the repercussions of that...

-- Posted by gurusmom on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 2:46 PM


Those in power stay in power. Those with the money buy all the stock. The little people have no "Stockholder's Vote". You actually think that the regular joe stockholder gets to vote? Hell no. It is the governing board that makes these decisions. What competent stockholder would say "Yeah, take 20 million a year, plus a 50 million severance pay when we fire you" ?? That is BS.

Yeah, it is contradictory with my statement of Lazzez Faire, but not much we can do about it. Yes, we can make decisions on how much a CEO makes by make comparisons to CEO's with similar businesses in other countries.

-- Posted by chaffeemp on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 2:55 PM

Okay, just ONE more: Why am I under the impression that lobbying/PACs were once generally considered a good idea, because we "needed" them in order to have a better "voice" in our government? Before you make fun of me for that question, remember that Civics class was a long, LONG time ago...;-)

-- Posted by gurusmom on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 3:00 PM


Most European countries have better transportation systems because they are 'little' countries compared to the US and are taxed to the max for the conviences.

Years ago we used to have very efficient passenger rail and bus systems but that has gone by the wayside.

-- Posted by BABE on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 3:03 PM


So you are perfectly willing for our government to compare CEO salaries of Eurotrash contries and the USA to cap CEO salaries here?

-- Posted by BABE on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 3:08 PM


It depends on your idealogy and goals whether you define them as lobbyists or grass roots efforts.

-- Posted by BABE on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 3:15 PM

Chaffee MP

My point exactly. Also, Babe commented earlier that some CEOs use their own capital to start a company and work hard to get it off the ground. I know that's true, but if you have enough money to start a big corporation, you had money to begin with. You will never save up that much money working on a $40,000 salary. I guess my point is that there is such a huge gap between those with A LOT of money and power and those without it that it's a little ridiculous. And please, don't anyone think I'm advocating more government control in our lives. I don't think it's a good idea for the government to have control over how much anyone makes, except maybe themselves, and that isn't going to change based on who you vote for. They're probably always going to make more than the average person. But I do agree with Melange that consumers choices affect more than we realize, although she is also right that sometimes there isn't much choice.

-- Posted by happy1a on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 3:28 PM


Ok, maybe I should clarify my statement. Yes, I know stockholders have the right to vote and the proxy vote. However, a lot of stockholders don't have the oppurtunity or the vote is covered in crap load of other paperwork mumbo-jumbo. Maybe I should have said the regular stockholder is too ignorant or lazy to get involved. Besides, most people deal with brokers over the phone and internet, and have no idea what their rights or responsebilities are.


I know we are both conservatives. However, I think mabye you are really Ann Coulter. Are you? I live in Italy. I have first hand experience with Europeans. Have you? If not, how can you call them Eurotrash? Yes, I think lowly of Europeans, but I am here. As far as comparisons to other nations and their CEO's, yes I do we should make comparisons and adjust salary accordingly. Asia is the best place to make the comparisons.

Also, I think it was twiggy who stated they live paycheck to paycheck. I mean no disrespect to those that have to and live within their means. I just hate those that try to live beyond their means. I was like that when I was new to the Army. I had to have all the new stuff, all the electronics. I had to learn the hard way by living paycheck to paycheck. Now I am financially stable, and I am a penny pincher.

-- Posted by chaffeemp on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 3:29 PM

Some Benefits

What the heck? I don't know what you do for a living but I want a piece of that action!

Pay it Forward

Thanks for a happy note. I've never done that or had it done for me, but I have considered it and may do it the next time I'm out if I have the money.

-- Posted by happy1a on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 3:43 PM


I think you are basically stating what I am stating. Regardless of the rights and responsebilities of average stockholders, they really don't have the ability for the important voting to determine CEO pay. It comes down to politics and lobbying.

-- Posted by chaffeemp on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 3:49 PM

Personally anyone can compare all they want to but in reality any comparisons made will only be an opinion. All countries no matter who they are have their own issues to contend with. There is no such thing as perfect country.

The bottom line is it doesn't matter whether it is dem or rep it is about information. I have been as guilty as the next about not researching things as much as what should. BOTH parties have messed up anyway you want to look at it.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 3:52 PM

The thing is if all stockholders took an informed approach and voted for the best of the company the one may not be able to change anything but the group could. As I believe Chaffeemp said the deal is they don't want to be bothered as long as their stock is turning a profit they could care less about the day to day operations. Money after all is the bottom line for a lot of folks.


Many more people are now living paycheck to paycheck even if they budget carefully but you are right many learn the spending habits at a young age that wants come before needs and they never grow up and get past it.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 3:56 PM


My reference to Eurotrash is stickly used in a political sense. I've heard enough from them trying to tell us to live by their standards and lifestyles. Some countries have taxed themselves so much in cradle to grave benefits that they are experiencing riots in the streets when trying to cut benefits of vacation time and work weeks. Sorry, I don't need their advice, thank you very much.

-- Posted by BABE on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 4:05 PM

I'd like to hear from folks reading this of how they started their businesses....whether on a shoesting budget or access to capital.

-- Posted by BABE on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 4:07 PM


I actually think it isn't the Europeans, but Americans that put they lifestyles and habits.


We aren't saying to compare ourselves to other countries. We are stating that we should compare salaries to the salaries of other CEOs in comparable businesses outside the US.


I think we both have the same point of view. Maybe a Me'Lange/Chaffeemp independent ticket for 2008???

-- Posted by chaffeemp on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 4:09 PM


Yes, I am Cape Girardeau's Ann Coulter. LOL

-- Posted by BABE on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 4:12 PM


When my in-laws started the business it was very much on a shoe string budget. The started out very small based out of their home and then each year reinvested profits to grow. Nothing with the company has ever been financed instead it was bought as the profits would allow. The growth of the company was slow but from careful and well planned choices it is now very successful. You do not have to have a big bankroll to start a business if you start slow and grow with the profits instead of borrowing huge amounts of money.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 4:13 PM


Those wants get us everytime.


Sorry misread the statement but even just comparing salaries there is more to consider than meets the eye. Of course since you are in other countries you can "see" first hand what we just read about here and that does make a difference.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 4:21 PM


They printed him not long after he was born right in the room. It was pretty neat to see..they even did an extra set for his baby book!


Thank you all for the congrats...I'm uploading pictures of him onto my myspace for those who wish to see.



Daegus is a gaelic name (as well as Duncan) and I like Gaelic names and gaelic stuff (family heritage and historical interest). It means "dark one". We also liked that it gave him the same initials as my husband and a similar name without being the same.

-- Posted by Super_Bethie on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 4:33 PM


Daegus is adorable. I am happy for you all I know you are glad that it is over and you can start spoiling him. Congrats again.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 5:48 PM


Sorry, but I tried to read Atlas Shrugged and lost interest. I do agree with much of the points raised in the book and those that you have put forth. I do not, however, feel that many people will embrace it. Many decry government intervention, but then seem to say the government needs to do something about it, some even in today's posts. It seems to me the most common response to adverse conditions is for people to say, "there out to be a law" or "the government needs to do something about this". Whether or not we like to admit it, we have become too dependent on government. We blame it on one hand and ask it to save us on the other. Of course I could be wrong.

-- Posted by Red_Rhino on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 5:50 PM

Testing. Testing.

FrrraaaAAABB!! Well, let's see if I get *****'d for that! Maybe that'll show I'm operational again. Heck, even Internet Explorer/Windows XP has been messin' with me all day. Now I'm getting suspicious, and looking menacingly at that new little white Charter box blinking at me...contemplating taking a hammer to it. Like I say, if it ain't broke, I can break it!! Geeze, I haven't even cleaned up over 300 unreads that built up while on the trip yet. Anyone have some spare eyeballs I can borrow?!

OK. Time to see if I've picked the lock correctly now.

-- Posted by Herr_Hauptmann_DES on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 6:13 PM


Your family business is exactly what I meant by starting on a shoestring budget.

-- Posted by BABE on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 6:18 PM


I may be wrong but I feel a lot more small business would make it IF they grew at a small pace instead of trying to get to big to quick. When starting any business as well as knowing the needs and demands of the market you also have to be willing to sacrafice things in the beginning. If you have to start with the best then you start with even more debt and less profit eventually you are operating solely in the red with no hope except to borrow more money and even then eventually you have went to far and loose it all. Some of the most successful people I know grew up with nothing and built their business from scratch doing without while they built it up now they have a profitable business with minimal debt to show for it. They knew what it was like to do without and carried that with them when making the choices they made and it paid off.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 6:26 PM

Aw, Hell. Gimme a break Webmeister! This is really getting asinine, & too much of a pain in the Alpha to bother with.

OK, here's the drill: I enter the paper's site, @ the home page, and see the little welcome (logged in) thingy on top. So I type up that test post, preview it (made a correction), then clicked to save, or post. THEN I get that annoying note that I'm not logged in. So I return to home page, log out/log back in, then start re-working the test post; however, before clicking on save again, jumped over to my other site tab...and there's the original post! I'm beginning to think that hammer could be better utilized at their end rather than at this end!!

I've been going through this Gulf Delta drill all Delta week, plus freakin' IE/Windows decides to give me a bunch of Sierra just for grins!!

Calm down, HERRball. Maybe a good flogging & cuddle w/the Mule can help start the day over...wait, the day's already done over. Geeze!

-- Posted by Herr_Hauptmann_DES on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 6:48 PM

Super Bethie,

I remember you were friends with a girl named Sarah when I first met you. She was a goth girl. Are you goth? Reason I ask is b/c you gave your child a name meaning "Dark One". Don't take it like I am making fun of it. Just curious. I knew Duncan was Gaelic. Didn't know about Daegus. I looked it up on a website for the meaning of baby names and that one wasn't in there. Hope you 2 are doing well.


We can still run together regardless. We will base our platform on free Ramen noodles for college kids, the collection of grass clippings, and a minimum distance for quarries to be around a residential home.

-- Posted by chaffeemp on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 6:57 PM

Just curious, semo and babe, but does the CEO of the company of which you mentioned make a personal profit of $20 million a year? That's the kind of CEO I'm talking about. I'm saying that a CEO making a multi-million dollar salary didn't usually start his own business. Not saying it can't happen, but businesses started on a shoestring budget can't usually withstand three or four bad years in a row without collapse. They are usually family-owned businesses that depend on the business for their paycheck. I'm speaking of companies that may have started small 75-100 years ago and are now huge corporations. As I said, the company I worked for was a Major retailer and had been on a downturn for eight or ten years. Semo, I'm glad your family's business is doing well. Kudos to your in-laws.

-- Posted by happy1a on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 7:48 PM


I fully understand what you are saying about CEO's salary. I do agree that 20 million is a high salary and more than a person needs but that is not my chice to make.

The business I am talking about although their salary may notbe in the millions their worth is as they "own" the business. I was simply answering Babe's question on the starting budget and expanding my opinion in on it.

I am very fortunate that my in-laws made the choices they have, it allows for my family to live a comfortable life while not extravagant by any means. And while at times more money would be nice I can not imagine having millions and not even sure I would want it. Money makes people do some weird things and this family is strange enough as it is.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 8:05 PM


Thanks muchly; and I could use a series of hugs AND floggings!!! Maybe G-Mom can help ya out in that department, and least 'til Bethie gets back in action. This site's been messing with me ever since I got back from the trip; well, I think it was before that too(?). Just kinda torques me off! Plus, when I did break into the site for a short time much earlier, I spotted C-Babe's heads-up about the fur flying on Terry Kinder's blog...he was sorta dog-slapping one of my favorite "Marxian (you know...Uncle Karl?!) indoctrinators" over at SEMO U. Now the day's shot, and I'm still waiting for my flogging from the Mule; she's a bit moody today, so doesn't want to play! Gee, I'm wondering if I'll ever get around to blathering about ghosty stuff the way things are going. But thanks again.


Thanks to you too for that heads-up. From what I could see (& going back for more), the fur & blood was flyin' around pretty good...the gore (no, not Algore!) fogged up my glasses!! BTW, is "Conserva..." or "C-" out of the "Babe" in your handle now? I get froggy with too many changes...guess that makes me a froggy conservative - or maybe just a ole toad!!! At least G-Mom & I managed to "persuade" (more like shame) Mikel into going back to "Pups", as it's fits him better...just don't try to pet him!!

-- Posted by Herr_Hauptmann_DES on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 8:26 PM


I'll make a deal with you, if you find millions of dollars lying around, give it to me, then you won't have to worry about it affecting your morals! ;)

And if I find a bundle, I'll keep most of it, but I'll be glad to share whatever you need with you and yours.

Thanks for all the good discussion today. This was my first time to post and I really enjoyed it. I read all the time, but I was starting to feel pretty voyeuristic. It's nice to actually converse with those of you I am starting to respect. Good night all, and also congratulations to Mr. and Mrs. Bethie. I'm also a Bethany so I have a warm place in my heart for her, as most Beths are Elizabeths.

-- Posted by happy1a on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 8:40 PM


I will remember that if I find a million laying around........lol...but for some reason I don't see that happening.

Nice to meet another Bethany......I am also partial to that name as it is my daughter's name even if few remember that as she is called Beth by most.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 8:57 PM

I just ran my daughter over to a friends and it dawned on me after seeing police cars both from the city and county parked at the officers homes that when the fuel prices are as high as what they are why are officers allowed to drive the cars to and from work, to drop kids off at school, or to run personal errands when the tax payers are the ones footing the fuel bills. Not to mention letting officers keep a car when off duty means they have to have more cars which means higher insurance rates and costs. What purpose do they have to use these cars for personal use or to get back and forth to work. Most people have to supply their own transportation, no one provides us with a car, fuel, insurance etc we work for it and pay it ourselves. Instead of always wanting to raise taxes to fund this or that personally I think they need to start cutting some of the "extra" from their budgets and would see the money is there already.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 9:13 PM

I don't know about Cape City and County, but quite a few departments allow certain Officers to have "take home" cars. In regards to County Officers, this often allows quicker response times as opposed to driving to the SD, loading all of their equipment and then responding. Some also work certain zones which also allows for quicker response times. It has also been found to help cut down on crime when a police car is in a neighborhood. Some departments charge Officers a set amount for the use while some do not. I am sure you could find out the policies by contacting one of the departments.

-- Posted by Red_Rhino on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 9:24 PM

It isn't the fact that they drive them home that really bothers me, it is once they get home they then use the car for running personal errands and have seen them even driving their kids places in the cars. It is understandable that for response times a car be kept in each area of the county, by the way this was a Cape County officer I saw dropping his child off. To me that is abuse of the privledge they have. But again it is just my opinion.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 9:29 PM

If the car is being used for personal business and the department is not being reimbursed, I would tend to agree with you. This could also cause some tax liabilities for the Officer if it is not reported as income.

-- Posted by Red_Rhino on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 9:35 PM

Even if the department would know about it, what would happen if the officer had a wreck with a passenger in the car whether it be their child, a friend etc. Then who covers the medical bills him or the county/city.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 9:44 PM

I honestly don't know as some Sheriffs own the cars and lease them to the County and in some jurisdictions the vehicles are owned by the county. I would just be guessing and my opinion would be worth no more than anyone else's.

-- Posted by Red_Rhino on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 9:54 PM

I wouldn't be caught dead on a scooter.

-- Posted by Instructor_aka____________ on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 10:42 PM

I hear ya Dru although motorcycles are scarey to me so I will stick to my car

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 11:02 PM

Chaffee--we already talked about this once. LOL. I'm goth...but that isn't why I picked the name. The name is actually a variant of Daegan. Both Daegus and Duncan have meanings associated with "dark one" or "dark skinned warrior". I expected him to be born with dark hair...and he was. Sarah is actually pretty normal now. :)

Happy--Neat! I haven't met many other Bethany's. Thanks for the good wishes.

-- Posted by Super_Bethie on Sat, May 31, 2008, at 11:39 PM


I have three names now because of my log in problems but they're all some form of Conservababe. I don't mind if you call me C-Babe or whatever your wish. I hope your log in problems improve.

-- Posted by BABE on Sun, Jun 1, 2008, at 12:10 AM

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