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Speak Out 5/25/08

Sunday, May 25, 2008

Stardust

I have a query

about the rock quarry.

Will the dust block out

a summer night starry?

No quarry complaints

I WAS raised down the road from the old Rock Hill Quarry in St. Louis County, one of the largest quarries in the Midwest. It was the location for an episode of the old "Route 66" TV program. I have many family members who continue to live in the area. I don't remember hearing a single person ever complain about the quarry operation. All the people hollering about the potential quarry in Cape Girardeau County remind me of those who scream the sky is falling.

Missing money

I WON'T condemn the person who turned in my wallet minus the money. This person may have been the second individual to have found the billfold. Maybe someone else stole the money and this innocent person turned it in. So we shouldn't judge.

Quarry boom

I LIVE near a quarry. I can feel a big boom occasionally. It's not peaceful to always hear this boom. People have a right to complete peace if they want it.

Getting it right

REGARDING THE calls for an end of the good-old-boy network in county government: Cape Girardeau County is consistently ranked at or near the top of all 114 counties in the state for fiscal stability and has been for many years. The good old boys must have been doing something right.

Dust on highway

IF ANYBODY has any questions about what a rock quarry will do to their community or the surrounding area, I'm going on Highway 74 at the Bloomfield Road intersection. The dust is so thick that you can barely see. Nothing is being done to squelch the dust. It is definitely a hazard.

Milk prices

SEVERAL YEARS ago, the government, which used to be us, bailed out the dairy farmers because they couldn't turn a profit. Now that milk prices are over $3 a gallon, they are accused of price fixing. Come on now. Under $3 is an insult to the farmer and the cow. I spend more than that on gas to go to get my gallon of milk. Most of us wouldn't get up at 4 o'clock on Sunday morning for a free gallon of milk, much less milking the cow.

No Saturday mail

WE ALL complain about the economy, but we are not willing to sacrifice. Just one example would be to stop Saturday mail delivery. Think of the fuel that would be saved. The mail is going to be a week or more late anyway, so what's one more day?

Not able to give

SOMEONE GAVE $100 and said he felt great. More power to you. I wish I could give $20, but I don't have $20 to give. I don't qualify for food stamps. I've been unemployed for two years. I can't seem to find a job, and I have a degree. If you can give $100 to the food bank, God bless you.


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Comments
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what are the chances of someone writing their own Speak-Out and then posting against it ?

-- Posted by ..Rick on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 7:02 AM

Turtle—

I think that would be known as the "devil's advocate".

-- Posted by RocketSurgeon on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 7:05 AM

more like kissing an ugly cousin...

-- Posted by ..Rick on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 8:12 AM

more like kissing an ugly cousin...

-- Posted by ..Rick on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 8:12 AM

sounds more like a politician.

-- Posted by newman90 on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 9:01 AM

getting it right

Of course the county ole boy system is fiscally stable....everytime they want something, they raise taxes.

-- Posted by BABE on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 11:31 AM

re: quarry boom

No, you do not have the 'right' to complete peace if you want it.

-- Posted by BABE on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 11:37 AM

This past week, Congress was fighting over increasing the budget for one of the few government programs which has actually worked, the G.I. Bill. The opponents say the $45 billion increase over the next 10 years will cost too much. That’s chicken feed compared to the $522 billion that the war in Iraq has cost so far. ( That’s $341,000,000.00 per day) Bush says the bill will cost too much money and if we compensate our Iraq War veterans with more money for college and trade school, why they won’t want to re-enlist. Too much money? How much is too much money after our young men and women were willing to walk into bullets and IED’s for this never ending war? For goodness sake, the Pentagon this week announced that they can’t account for $7.8 billion paid to contractors in Iraq up until 2006. Who knows what that number has ballooned to now and I wonder who got all of that money? I bet the top republicrats and demacons in Washington D.C. know. They are invested up to their eyebrows in the war machine.

This isn’t the only big bucks the military can’t account for. There is and has been theft and fraud galore. Donald Rumsfeld had a late afternoon press conference 7 years ago to announce that the Pentagon could not account for $2.3trillion, that’s trillion with a T. This is the 3 minute You tube video of Rumsfeld and then CBS News reporting about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kpWqdPMj... Normally that would have been huge headline news the next day, and Rumsfeld and his predecessor, Clinton’s Secretary of Defense William Cohen, would have been on the hot seat about the missing money. However, as lady luck would have it for Rumsfeld and Cohen, there was even bigger news the very next day that took the heat off of those two scoundrals. You see Rumsfeld announced the missing trillions on Sept. 10, 2001 and we all know too well what happened the nest day.

I know what you are thinking Instructor; just another conspiracy theory. Yep just another in a long list of crazy conspiracies about 9/11. And I guess in your case, you would explain it as another in the long list of “coincidence” theories.

However,I think we both can agree that you as an Army Reserve and I as a Viet-Nam vet, that our military deserve the best education and medical care possible.

-- Posted by Thought Criminal on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 11:52 AM

Snoops

The peace disturbance issue is an "in town" vs "out of town" discussion. All of the "noise" tickets you mentioned are probably coming from local city ordinances. Is the proposed rock quarry going to be in a city limits or out? If its out then there is most likely no (criminal) basis for the posters thoughts. There may be a civil remedy but probably not as the blasting would fall within the structured focus of the trade i.e. the train blowing its horn at two in the AM. If you live outside of a city limits you get certain freedoms that in town dwellers don't have. Maybe you want a hog farm. maybe a herd of emus, whatever. These people do have a right to peace and not to live next to a rock quarry. They have the right to negotiate with the landowner buy the ground and let it sit to preserve their choosen lifestyle. They could have done that before now and they didn't. That runs a risk that someone will buy it and attempt to make a living doing something on it that you (they) don't approve of. Freedom is for everybody. Some people don't want ethanol, some don't want this quarry, some do. If this guy can operate a business in a manner as to not damage the properties next to him then thats what he can do. Who is John Galt?

-- Posted by Donnie on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 3:26 PM

Info

My thoughts are no matter how good the program if we can't afford to do it then we can't do it. Rand in her book "Atlas Shrugged" remarked that an honest man knows that he can not consume more than he produces. The vast majority of our society does just that. That was the John Galt ref in my previous post. Rand calls people that take goods and services and produce nothing in return "looters". We are on a race toward economic meltdown with our debt toping the 9.65 Trillion mark this year. I too am a vet but even I can not abide with any new programs until we can pay the bills we already have. Even a program to those that deserve the most. I can't see us doing the necessary things to extract ourselves from Iraq so that looks to be a long term bill until such time as oil is no longer important to our society. Just my opinion.

-- Posted by Donnie on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 3:36 PM

I agree with what you said Donnie. I don't think we should spend money on anything new until the debt is paid. I meant to make the point that if they are going to spend so much on the war, they should take a portion of that to give to the vets and not so much to military contractors like Haliburton who rewarded us taxpayers by moving their headquarters and jobs to Dubai.

I have not heard a word where that $2.3 trillion went that Rummy talked about on the video. That is some big time criminal activity. I also forgot to mention that there was some large put options on American and United airlines shortly before 9/11. Maybe Osama from his cave told all of his friends to sell their airline stock short and they would make a killing when American and United stock tanked like it did after the attack.

-- Posted by Thought Criminal on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 4:16 PM

Info

I agree with the point you make about nothing new until the debt is paid. Not just balancing the budget but paying the debt. The conspiracy stuff I would debate but the nuts and bolts of paying our bills I stand with you on.

Now I messed around and got myself fired up over nothing. Let me start out by saying I am not intending to attack anyone’s beliefs in the ethanol, rock quarry, not in my backyard or our federal budget deficit predicament. I guess in my mind they are all kind of loosely tied together to a rational of thinking that has infected our nation in my opinion.

First off the lasted numbers from

http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekl...

show that about one of every five Americans are reporting that they have a disability of some kind. One in eight are reporting a severe disability that would require them to even have an aid assigned to assist them in routine functions. Does anyone really believe that there are 53 million Americans out there that can’t work? There are 33 million more that not only can’t work but need someone to be there to help them exist? I don’t believe that. Even if I did I refuse to believe that it is the working public’s responsibility to support one out of every five people. I know that there really are people out there who are disabled but that program is abused 100:1 to where it should be. The numbers don’t work. We can’t afford it. We have been idiots to have tried this long.

Now link into that equation Dana moving to Mexico, Super Value and Columbia Sportswear closing up, oh there are tons of closings but those are the first three that come to mind. So that puts us in a place locally that mirrors out national trends where fewer people are working fewer jobs supporting more people whom don’t feel that they can work in a society tied to the consumption of resources that we can’t make or refuse to develop even when we can. I realize that was a run on sentence Mrs. Cutler please forgive me. Does anybody else see the problem here? We are at a point now where we are spending 1.01 Trillion dollars on social welfare expenditures every year that never should have been the Feds business anyway. We need jobs and people to work them. We need to produce more and consume less. But we can’t build ethanol plants or rock quarries. One because a giant still might produce toxic chemicals (no data to support) and the other because it would interfere with a bicycle route and a view of scenic living. As we hurtle as quickly as we can toward economic meltdown and rearrange deck chairs on a sinking ship it has ceased to matter who wins this upcoming election. Unless something changes rapidly and it may already be too late, we all lose anyway.

Ok I feel better. Sorry its been building for a while.

-- Posted by Donnie on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 4:30 PM

Just wanted to say hello to all. Doesn't seem like to much really going on today. Hope everyone's holiday week end will be restful and enjoyable.

Twiggy

-- Posted by Aggiefan/Twiggy on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 4:47 PM

Ok I am so sorry for going off like this and I promise to stop but something else that’s been killing me is this whole “tax break for the wealthy” crap. Oh it sounds great when Obama said right here in Cape “I think the wealthy need to pay their fair share and I’m against this tax break for the wealthy”. Now lets look at the numbers and not the sound byte. The top 10% of our wage earners pay more then 70% of the nation’s taxes. Ok if they aren’t paying “their fair share” just what the hell does Mr. Obama want them to pay? What number does anyone have in mind? Why are we punishing the one segment of the population that is driving the entire economy for the rest of us? Don’t they deserve to keep their money just as much as I deserve to keep mine? Why is it the bottom 40% is asked to pay NO taxes and is even recipients of forced wealth redistribution in the form of “earned income credits”? It should be more apply named unearned income credit. The answer is simple but truly sinister. Its simply votes and keeping politicians in office. I wish one politician would just be honest about this thing and say “well we can garner more votes by stealing from the rich and doling that money out over the bottom half of the population”. It may not be fair but it sure makes for good politics. I almost don’t blame the wealthy for taking their factories overseas. If someone was taking half of my salary and not taking a dime from nearly half the nation, I might be hacked off too!!!

-- Posted by Donnie on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 4:57 PM

Consuming more than you produce

It is becoming increasingly more difficult for Americans to produce more, or, at least equal to what they produce due to the eradication of our manufacturing jobs through the biggest looting project of all time, Globalization.

We Americans still need to provide for ourselves, but now it is with near meaningless, poor paying "service us" jobs. When you used gas to go to work, and energy to heat and cool your home, but manufactured a product that could be sold upon the world market, whether it be a Bulova wristwatch, a Bell & Howell movie camera, a Schaffer pen, made with pride in Ft. Madison, Iowa by my Aunt Dorothy, then your consumption was being offset by your production.

Now, an American is forced to take the low paying jobs that they had 20-30 years ago as entry level jobs, to try to keep their family in beans. They are consuming more, because gas for their car, and energy to heat and cool their home costs more.

When they went to work at their factory job, 30-40 years ago, the CEO of the company made between 20-30 times what they did. Today, the CEO's are making over 400 times that of their workers. Now, we get into the problem of upper level consumption vs. production. That CEO with his yacht, a home in Florida, a home in Vail, and a home in the southern France consumes much more than he actually produces. With little effective change in his job, he is doing the job of the CEO of 30-40 years ago, yet he is being paid 10+ times what that CEO made. I say "made," because the CEO of that period actually made products and sold them on the domestic and world market. The Global era CEO is not a person who rose up from flipping burgers at Burger King to become the CEO, as was often the pathway to success in America's golden years, but the modern CEO is a product of the "financial" markets, with his education based in finance. The modern CEO has no interest in producing a quality Schaeffer ink pen, nor, a Sunbeam Mixmaster electric mixer, a GE steam iron, nor, an improved Philco Television set. These globalist swine have products made on the cheap at 30 cents an hour in Red China, or, communist Vietnam slap their label on them and sell them for high dollar to Americans are told by globalist toadie propagandists like Rush Limbaugh that they are getting them cheaper than when Americans made them, when, in reality, they are not cheaper at all.

Obama and Hillary's answer to all this is a pledge that we will all be making windmills in the new "green economy." We have heard that lying crap before.

First, it was Rush, Bill Clinton and the Republican congress who, in 1993-94 told us that we would be awash in jobs from all the benefits of passing NAFTA. Okay, where the hell are those jobs> Then, Rush tries to snow us by telling us that we need to give up that old tech of manufacturing for the new computer jobs that will be coming our way. Somehow, those jobs, on the way to Americans who no longer had their manufacturing jobs, got re-routed to India, Singapore, and Red China.

Then, a few years ago, globalists and their apologists, went on nationwide television telling us that globalism was working, and to forget about those manufacturing jobs, IT and computer jobs, that they had promised earlier, get ready for a new job... that in, as one globalist stuttered and stammered trying to explain, "nano tech jobs. I don't know exactly what they are yet, but they are coming!" Yeah, right a*ss hole, more promised jobs, that when they come, they will go to Red China and India, because they will do them cheaper.

Same goes for this illusionary job category, "Green Jobs, that Hillary and Obama talk about. Those jobs, if they come about, will, for the most part, go to workers in India and Red China, because those jobs are not meant to put Americans back to work, they, along with our lost manufacturing, IT and computer jobs, are meant to enrich the already incredibly rich 5% of those who control and dictate American foreign, domestic, and economic policy. I am talking about the internationalists, the Globalists.

As for McCain, he doesn't have a clue, nor, an answer to our economic problems, because he, his associates, and contributors are mostly responsible for the problem.

If you listen to CB chatter by truckers, you might get the impression that America is poised for a real civil war, not just a war between the states, or, war of northern aggression as we had in the 1860's. As things worsen in America, I predict that more Americans will see revolution as their only recourse.

Revolution could be a cleansing solution, or, it could be the final nail in this once great nation's coffin. At this point, I really don't know what our future is to become.

-- Posted by Liberty_not_Tyranny on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 5:06 PM

"Why are we punishing the one segment of the population that is driving the entire economy for the rest of us?"

Oh, Donnie, I think that you would get an argument on that one. That is such a bunch of elitist propaganda crap that it would take a fortnight to unravel.

First, you would need to explain how these bast*rds are "driving the economy for the rest of us" when they have off-shored millions of our freaking jobs.

How much did Bernie Ebers pay in taxes? That WorldCom slug took the "fifth" in testimony before congress, so he would not have to answer where the hell he lived.

He officially lives "off-shore" so, as to reduce, or, eliminate his tax "burden."

Several years ago, in the late 1990's, I believe, the Republican controlled congress stopped a Democrat plan to make those CEO's living off-shore to avoid taxes, pay taxes. There was a long list of CEO's involved in this scheme. I don't have that list of the scum suckers who were doing it, but I do remember that the CEO of Campbells soup was one of them.

Where the hell did you get that figure that the top 10% were paying 70% of the taxes; from Rush, or, Hannity, or, FAUX NOOS?

Total propaganda crap. I am really surprised that you are repeating it as fact.

-- Posted by Liberty_not_Tyranny on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 5:16 PM

Donnie,

I agree with your points; wish I could have said it as well.

-- Posted by Red_Rhino on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 5:23 PM

INFOWARRIOR

Welcome to the fray. It is obvious that you can stand the heat, now, if you can just tolerate the utterly confused ignorance expressed here, we will all benefit from your observations and insight.

There is hope for America at www.infowars.com

-- Posted by Liberty_not_Tyranny on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 5:25 PM

Next time, pick your own **** cotton.

If you don't like the social programs, other than those for the rich, then, next time, pick your own **** cotton.

Many of those who are on those programs were brought to this country in chains and forced to work your cotton fields and mills. Where is your outrage about slavery, and denunciations against your ancestors for having not the foresight to see the current problems that they laid the keel to?

If the jobs were here, if the elitist, globalist swine had not conceived a plan to make themselves fabulously wealthy at the expense of this nation, by off-shoring manufacturing jobs, then, you would not have millions of Americans forced into social welfare.

Once again, you laud those social welfare programs that are designed to aid the uber rich, but you discredit those programs that help people. Typical Republican form.

Next time, as in "now", with the Republican plan for the importation of illegals to do jobs that Americans WILL do, such as construction, mining, and other skilled labor; "pick your own **** cotton," because these illegals are going to create even more problems for America in the future.

When the former Chairman of the Federal Reserve, Alan Greenspan, advocates the importation of skilled workers from other countries, namely, Mexico, to do skilled worker labor in the US, in order to drive down the wages of American skilled labor workers, then that outght to give you a clue as to what is going on here with the stealthy theft of our jobs. Greenspan says that we need to import skilled laborers to drive down the wages of skilled laborers, so that the non-skilled labor wage earners won't feel so bad that they are working long hours for little pay. I guess Greenspan is a proponent of "misery loves company."

That's it, stick up for the rich, because, eventually, they will stick it to you. When that happens, you will not find comfort among us. We will tell you to back to the "serve us" economy of the uber rich whom you have fallen in love with, and defended when no defense was sanely possible.

-- Posted by Liberty_not_Tyranny on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 5:39 PM

Don't_Nuke_Me_Bro

Conspriacy of Silence

Thank you for posting the link to this great documentary that the government attempted to kill off back in the early '90's.

John DeCamp is a Republican with consicence, and I am thankful for him and his efforts to expose the "Franklin Cover Up." This scandal was briefly mentioned by Ted Gunderson on the KZIM talk show not long after the OKC Bombing. I had recommended former FBI SAC of LA and DALLAS, to Cindy Jeter, and she was delited to have him on, as she knew Ted from her work in the Dallas area. In closing, Gunderson agreed to come back on with Cindy at a later date, and that he would like to talk about the "Franklin Cover-UP." She asked him what was he talking about. Ted took just a few seconds to tease the subject. Afterwards, Cindy, then a die-hard Republcian, told me that she would not have her fromer FBI friend back on to talk about Franklin.

I am posting a direct link to the full 55 minute version of the documentary that was scheduled to appear on the DISCOVERY CHANNEL, but was squashed. The work tape that survived, is as you said, not the highest quaitly, but it is telling.

Again, thank you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggxiBWv4x...

-- Posted by Liberty_not_Tyranny on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 5:58 PM

The job is yours as long as you appreciate it. When you stop appreciating the job, then it becomes someone else's. Your choice.

-- Posted by BCStoned on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 6:11 PM

Do they even make FBI heroes like Ted Gunderson anymore? I had the privilege to interview FBI SAC Gunderon in the mid 90's on my program, Ozark Forum. I then recommended him to Cindy Jeter, who hosted an hour morning talk show on KZIM 960am. Visit this FBI hero at http://www.tedgunderson.com/

That local talk program is no longer aired, even though they have a capable staff at KZIM with which to host such a program. It gathered input and callers from Illinois, as well as Missouri, but, at times, I suspect, it wasn't the kind of "talk" that the owners liked to hear. Criticism of Joann Emerson for her pro-Red Chinese communist votes in Congress, talk of diminishing freedoms, the FBI attempt to gather info on callers who talked about the UN, foreign bases on US soil, like the German Air Force base at Holloman AFB at Alomogordo, NM, and the New World Order. The FBI would contact the State Policing agency in each state and ask them to call talk show hosts and have them report callers who spoke on such topics to the FBI. The talk show host of a station in New Mexico did just that. The problem is, that the callers included the Chairwoman of the Ortega County New Mexico Republican party who would call with sane appraisals of United Nations activity. She got wind of this scheme of reporting on US citizens and called the Attorney General. He called later and left a message on her answering machine, to the effect that.... "There is no such program to report on the calling habits of New Mexican talk show callers....AND, IF THERE WAS ONE, IT HAS STOPPED." This program was during the reign of Bill Clinton.

"German Air Force Flying Training Center

On 1 May 1996, the German Luftwaffe established the German Air Force Tactical Training Center at Holloman.

The German Air Force Tactical Training Center activated at Holloman 1 May 1996 With the activation, 300 German military personnel and 12 Panavia Tornado aircraft joined Team Holloman. German aircrews come to Holloman for approximately three weeks for advanced tactical training and then return to Germany. The German Air Force (Luftwaffe) also conducts a Fighter Weapons Instructor Course for the Tornado. Aircrews for this course come to Holloman for about six months.

As of November 2006 there are 650 German military personnel and 25 Tornado aircraft assigned to Holloman AFB"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holloman_Ai...

TED GUNDERSON

Federal Bureau of Investigations

1977-79 Senior Special Agent-in-Charge*

Los Angeles, California

1973-77 Special Agent-in-Charge

Memphis, Tennessee and Dallas, Texas

1973 Chief Inspector

1965-73 Asst Special Agent-in-Charge

New Haven, Connecticut and Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

1960-65 Special Agent Supervisor

FBI Headquarters, Washington, D.C.

1951-60 Special Agent

VISIT TED @ http://www.tedgunderson.com/

-- Posted by Liberty_not_Tyranny on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 6:14 PM

Mike

I got the date about the breakdown in who pays what from various sites. The lowest estimate I could find for you came from the US Congress link

http://www.house.gov/jec/publications/10...

It isn’t elitist crap, its census crap.

I think this is the 2003 one. 2006 is available also.

You stated in response.

“Many of those who are on those programs were brought to this country in chains and forced to work your cotton fields and mills. Where is your outrage about slavery, and denunciations against your ancestors for having not the foresight to see the current problems that they laid the keel to?”

You are making a number of assumptions here.

1: My ancestors were here when there was slavery.

2: I owned cotton fields or mills 140+ years ago.

3: The age of the people on those programs are in excess of 140 years old.

4: Slavery “laid keel” to current program and budget deficits.

Three of your ascertains are pure fancy and the remaining one is threadbare shaky.

You assume I’m a Republican. I can’t stand by any political party these days. None represent my ideals of a government that protects the fundamental rights of its citizens and stays out of all else. I don’t want a government that thinks it can take care of my problems.

Back to my original post however. How much do you feel that successful people should have to pay? Why should their income be more taxed than mine just because they made better choices than you or I did? You can name a few of the 34 million top wage earners that have skirted the system for their own gain. What about the other 33.999 million?

-- Posted by Donnie on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 6:28 PM

Donnie

You led off with a name, therefore, I am not sure if you were addressing me, but from the quotes you gave, you must have been talking to me.

You referred to my post entitled "Next Time, Pick Your Own **** Cotton." It was a GENERIC ID post, for I did not mention you by name. There are lots of folks who identify with the same, or, similar apparent ideology that you have stated here. If you are offended, no need to be, unless the shoe fits, and by your statements, they may, or, may not.

-- Posted by Liberty_not_Tyranny on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 6:55 PM

Lib

I wasn't intending on insulting you, I just use my first name and refer to others in that manner unless they don't want me too. Don't read into it more than it is. I would like to hear your views on the topic however if you have a standpoint you are willing to debate in a rational and open minded manner. I'm not looking to call anybody any names just an open exchange of ideas like we used to do on here a few years ago before things got so testy.

-- Posted by Donnie on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 7:05 PM

Donnie,

you said....

"You are making a number of assumptions here. "

1: My ancestors were here when there was slavery.

....are you implying that your family arrived after 1860? Mine arrived in 1640 and were noted abolitionists from day one.

2: I owned cotton fields or mills 140+ years ago.

....malarkey, Donnie... that is why I used the term "anncestors."

3: The age of the people on those programs are in excess of 140 years old.

....malarkey, Donnie... In this instance it referred to the current decendents of those slaves, as you well know.

4: Slavery “laid keel” to current program and budget deficits.

"Yes, it did. There is little dispute of that fact. If you don't believe that slavery is the root cause of the forced immigration of Africans to America, what do you think happened? Do you really believe that the friendly skippers and their boats pulled up along the coast of Africa and the captain yelled out..."Hey, there is a party on board dis boat. Lookie here, we got watermelon, fried chicken, okra and adult beverages, ya'll wanna go for a boat ride." Whence the Africans gleefully scampered aboard, partied, rode around on the boat for awhile and signed up for happy, no pressure work in the fields of the the "land of freedom."

Is that how you truly see the forced introduction of Africans to America, slavery, back breaking work, and death for defying der masters?

-- Posted by Liberty_not_Tyranny on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 7:13 PM

Donnie,

Just read your post...." would like to hear your views on the topic however if you have a standpoint you are willing to debate in a rational and open minded manner. I'm not looking to call anybody any names just an open exchange of ideas like we used to do on here a few years ago before things got so testy.'

Thank you, I would be glad to accept. Just not at the moment. I must leave rhe computer for a few hours and may not log on again tonight. Soon.

Enjoy the holiday. I can't wait until Confederate Memorial Day Weekend, can you?

-- Posted by Liberty_not_Tyranny on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 7:20 PM

Lib

I am not arguing that slavery didn’t exist in America eight-nine generations ago. How do you make the connection to social welfare programs of today and what makes you believe that the majority of people on those programs are descendants of slaves? Where is the causation? People have a free will. I come from modest upbringings. I lost my father at an early age to a heart attack and I am the youngest of six boys. I am not wealthy but I had every chance to go to college (and I did). Some of my brothers did not and they didn’t get very far. Their choice. Poverty is usually an individual choice of lifestyle or a series of bad decisions. Not every time but most.

-- Posted by Donnie on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 7:26 PM

Lib

Just read your post. Another time then.

-- Posted by Donnie on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 7:27 PM

The argument that America needed the cheap labor of slaves to work in agriculture and other work for America to grow is not a good excuse for slavery. It doesn't make it better, to say that we needed cheap labor, therefore, slavery, yet bad, was okay, because we needed it.

Try explaining that on moral grounds. If you believe in God, do you think that when their time comes, that despotic slave holders will be judged lightly because America needed cheap labor and the plantation owners didn't want to pay decent wages to attract farm hands, becauase the plantion owners wanted to make a whole hell of a lot of profit? I cannot believe that the Trinity will accept brutal beatings, and murder of the slaves as being an okay excuse, because America "needed" their unpaid slave labor?

Did America "need" their slave labor, therefore, slavery was "okay", or, did plantation owners who refused to pay decent wages adopt slavery as the solution to their greed driven agenda? I believe it to be the latter. People were starving in Ireland. I believe that if you advertised for farm hands from Europe, and said that you would pay them decnently, that Europeans would have come to work the fields, making slavery unnecessary.

I just do not believe that a just God would consider enslavement of the Africans as a good cause and give those involved in the process a free pass on Judgement Day. It's just an opinion. I have not spoken with God recently upon the subject of slavery, but on other ocassions, I have gathered that he is none to happy with that period in America, and those who plied the trade in humans for profit.

Sort of makes me think of today's America, where the elitists, the globalists are attempting to bring illegals, the modern day lowly paid slaves to America to acheive their greed driven agenda, at the expense of both the illegals and other immigrants, H1-Bs, and the Americans whose jobs they are designed to destroy.

-- Posted by Liberty_not_Tyranny on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 7:36 PM

Oh your back, cool

Ok your post

”The argument that America needed the cheap labor of slaves to work in agriculture and other work for America to grow is not a good excuse for slavery.”

I am obviously missing the boat here (no pun intended) Who ever said slavery was a good thing? How does it factor into any of the points of contention? To argue slavery is bad is another of those red herring arguments that I talk about all the time. To point to one undisputed fact as proof of an unassociated argument is not a valid method of debate. If I am following your case you are saying that slavery was bad so globalists are bad. I must be a little slow cause I am not making the leap. And I wasn’t arguing for globalists or slavery anyway I was arguing…well here I’ll do this debate team style and just make my three top points:

1: I don’t think it is fair to saddle the successful with a 49% tax bracket.

2: I do not believe that I have any claim to any wealth or product that I myself did not produce or trade for with money. Money is a manifestation of goods or services that I did produce.

3: I believe that the smallest minority of any society is the individual and anyone whom is willing to trample the individuals right to their own production is not serious about protecting anyone’s rights. Its just politicians attempting to buy votes off the labor of others.

-- Posted by Donnie on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 8:00 PM

Liberty

You are right on the money about everything you said. The global elite want class warfare because if the people are hungry and live in fear of having a next paycheck, then they won't be paying any attention to what the elite are doing to them. People believe that if they just shut up, the government will leave them alone. News flash folks, when you shut up and act predictable, they can control you even better. And when the government keeps the people in a constant state of fear and agitation their propaganda works even better. Most everyone, if they were honest with themselves, instinctively knows something is not quite right. Yet they listen to the Limbaughs, Hannitys, and other Bagdad Bobs who tell them that everything is fine. Cognitive Dissonance is what that is called. One side of their brain says things are not right and the other side at the same time says everything is fine. That’s the state of being your loving government wants you to stay in folks. Trauma based mind control really works well. Governments have used it through the ages.

The elite are destroying this country by design. You can't have a one world government with a strong U.S.A. It makes me sick when people say there is no plan to destroy this once great country. The world is adopting all sorts of United Nations policies. Daddy Bush gave a New World Order speech at the U.N. oddly enough on 9/11/1990 and another NWO speech again to congress on 9/11/1991 and he mentioned the NOW in many other speeches as well http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a9Syi12R...

Gary Hart gave a NWO speech on 9/12/2001. Margaret Thatcher gave NWO speeches as did Tony Blair. Globalists don't want borders. Bush and congress passed all sorts of laws to restrict our freedom after 9/11, but left the borders wide open. That right there should tell the sheep that they were up to no good.

The elite who run this country want the people to fight amongst themselves. left vs right white vs black rich vs poor etc. There is no difference at the top between democrats and republicans. They make their back room deals and pretend like they have opposite goals. The left wing and the right wing are just two wings on the same bird. Isn’t it amazing that no matter whom gets elected nothing really changes that much?

You are so right about ex FBI agent Ted Gunderson. He woke up and discovered how evil this system is. His interview with Cathy O’Brien was so bizarre. There are a bunch of people who are risking their lives to get the truth out and some have already lost their lives because they knew too much. Bill Cooper, Gary Webb, Terry Yeakey, and congressman Larry McDonald to name a few. Limbaugh calls people like Alex Jones, Gunderson, Alan Watt (Cutting Through the Matrix.com) and others who are trying to get people to open their eyes, kooks. Some people will never wake up to what is going on, but thank God many people are coming out of the fog. The global elite could shut down the internet anytime they want ( and blame it on terrorists) that is why I feel compelled to inform anyone who will listen. All we can do is pass on what we know and people can take it or leave it. Some of my family has opened their eyes yet the others are still slowly coming around. This evil world system can only be beaten as individuals. It can only be beaten by using our own minds. We simple have to fight tyranny every time we see it. If the government abuses one of us they abuse all of us. If only the Germans would have seen that when the Nazis started kicking people around. Let’s don’t be like the Germans

Oh by the way Liberty check out the video America Freedom to Fascism.

http://video.yahoo.com/watch/543343/2759... It is another mind blower about the IRS and Federal Reserve. It was made in such a way that anyone can understand how those two evil systems operate. After watching this video, thousands of people woke up.

-- Posted by Thought Criminal on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 9:12 PM

Hey Donnie watch the America Freedom to Fascism video on Google. It was made for people just like you and me who question the IRS. Aaron Russo made this documentary. Russo who died last year was a big time Hollywood producer who woke up and started looking for answers and he had the money to find the answers.

He is not one of those guys who tell you not to pay, but he proves that the income tax is not legal. Now, in the real world, the courts simply do not properly enforce the law. Russo interviews the former director of the IRS and he can't even answer Russo's simple questions. The director looks like a fool. Russo interviews people who were terrorized by the IRS.I promise you that you will never be the same after watching this video. http://video.yahoo.com/watch/543343/2759...

-- Posted by Thought Criminal on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 9:25 PM

How many watched "Recount" on HBO? I have never laughed so hard, at Dems. Aggie

-- Posted by Aggiefan/Twiggy on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 11:04 PM

missed it Aggie..must have been good...

-- Posted by ..Rick on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 11:47 PM

25 May 2008

Today the SE Missourian Speakout comments section will forever be known as the MJB/Infowarrior love fest.

Are you guys blowing each other?

-- Posted by Instructor_aka____________ on Sun, May 25, 2008, at 11:51 PM

Dang that was hilarious Bully. I haven't heard anything that funny since..oh I don't know.. about the 5th or 6th grade. Did you think that up yourself or did you pick it up on your daley trip watching the little boys playing down at the city park today? You know riding that big bad motorcycle around impressing those middle schoolers. Varoom Varoom

You're always talkimg about your trips to the gym when you're probably actually at home prissing around your living room dancing to the oldies with Richard Simmons videos.

From now on when you mention working out, everyone is going to picture you dressed in your little gay striped short shorts and tank top prancing around with your idol. You probably have the afro wig to go with it too. At first when I read your posts I thought you were just a borish a-hole. But now I feel a bit sorry for you. At least you pay some attention to what's going on even if you are wrong. There is hope for you yet.

-- Posted by Thought Criminal on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 1:16 AM

**** infoassho*e! You are sooo right about me! How did you know?

Sincerely

Michael J Ballou

-- Posted by Instructor_aka____________ on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 1:24 AM

I just had a hunch and I also have a minor in psychology.

-- Posted by Thought Criminal on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 1:28 AM

never argue with a fool , folks might not know

who's winning...

-- Posted by ..Rick on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 9:12 AM

Snoops_Malone, Please don't anger WHO_ME?

Man, I would watch it when it comes to being critical of WHO_ME? Don't you know that he "MARCHED POINT" in Vietnam. Now, he didn't "take point", nor, did he "walk point," he freaking "MARCHED POINT."

I hope you know how comical, and utterly ridulous his post was when he mentioned, a few months ago, that he had Marched Point. It is my daily source of chuckles.

Also, he said that he was a Marine in Vietnam. Then he goes on to give an Army unit as his Marine RVN unit, and, lo' and behold, it is an Army unit that is hq'd at Ft. Lee, VA, the very post that our Dru goes to do his measly two weeks a year.

According to another Dru post, the Army wants him to do a year at Ft. Lee, but Dru feels that it would be a HARDSHIP upon his daddy's t-shirt business if'n he were to go away for a whole stinkin' year to Virginia.

Now, with every freaking ANG and Reservist in Missouri doing at least one tour in Iraq, most have done more, then it begs the question what politican was allegedly solicited to make sure that our little town bully got to stay home with mommy, daddy and the wife? I just don't believe that the Army would let him get out of doing a year at Ft. Lee, Va, unlessen there was a Republican politican with pull involved.

-- Posted by Liberty_not_Tyranny on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 10:37 AM

To all those who are serving or have served at any time in any capacity, Thank you. While we may all disagree on various issues we should never overlook the service and contributions to this county of our military men, women and their families who share the burden.

-- Posted by Red_Rhino on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 10:55 AM

If I really cared, I would guess that WHO_ME? and the "Bully_Jerk," are one in the same, based upon those ignorant comments about "point", and the Marine unit that he said he served in in Vietnam happens to ARMY, not, Marine, and is Hq'ed at the ARMY post that he does his two weeks.

But, I really don't care if they are the same person, or, if there is another slug out there who is equally mentally challenged as he is.

But, I will say one thing for Dru. He sure has huge balls to be going around bullying those peace demonstrators and acting all pro-military gung-ho, "Love ma Country," when he, himself, has not the courage to even do a year at Ft. Lee.

Again, that situation is a source of a daily chuckle for me.

-- Posted by Liberty_not_Tyranny on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 10:59 AM

Liberty

Don't you EVEN dare to disparage our military today, of all days.

-- Posted by BABE on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 11:05 AM

Would the posters who have served, are serving, active or reserve...please tell us so that we can thank you personally?

-- Posted by BABE on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 11:22 AM

ROFLMAO!!! Who Me? and Instructor? Same person?

Keep on believing what you will michael j ballou. SE Hospital has a litte psycho unit right next door to your rat infested sh*thole. If you weren't so **** fat, you might be able to walk there but the emergency room would be more your style. It is closer and you'll need it when you experience the myocardial infarction on your walk over.

Only took a matter of time before I pi*sed you off and you would bring up what you perceive of my military career.

What a fat, miserable piece of sh*t you are.....

-- Posted by Instructor_aka____________ on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 11:25 AM

I hope everyone can find something fun to do today even with the rain falling but at the same time I hope everyone will stop to remember all of the ones who have served and are still serving in our military. I thank them all and pray for a speedy and safe return for all of those in Iraq.

Now for all of the vocal ones out there please put thought to paper and send in a letter to the ADJ General of our state to support the Armory in jackson being renamed to honor one of our own Fallen soldiers Sgt Skelton. What better way to thank him than to keep his memory going.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 11:29 AM

Wow, what do you know? There happens to be quite a large Marine Corps detachment at Ft Lee Virginia!

http://www.quartermaster.army.mil/marine...

As a matter of fact, I have done some cross training with the Marines. Good guys. I am sure they would be quite proud of the man you have become michael.

-- Posted by Instructor_aka____________ on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 11:29 AM

What many do not see unless they are at a military base is that ALL bases have ALL military personel on them. Even Ft Leanordwood has got a Marine detatchment there.........New River in NC is a Marine base right beside Lejune and guess what it has AirForce stationed there. It does not matter if a person serves Army, Marines, Airforce, Navy, Coast Guard or Reserves they still served in the military, are still considered a veteran and should still be honored.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 11:33 AM

Actually angel, the letters need to go to your respective state legislators. I have already talked to one of SSG Skelton's buddies (I also served with Ram-Brad) about the re-naming of the Armory.

Unfortunately, the state legislative session is over for the year and this will have to be accomplished during the next session. Please write your representatives about pre-filing a bill. In order to expedite the movement of the bill, it will need to be introduced in both the House and Senate so contact your rep and senator.

Please let me know if you would like any assistance. I would be happy to help.

-- Posted by Instructor_aka____________ on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 11:35 AM

BABE,

I didn't disparage the military, today, but if I were to, I don't need any lectures from you. They have no special status, nor, protection, that disallowes critique, or, criticism. You sure seem to have a fascist bent to your personality. I hope that you can put down your swastika for a moment and enjoy this beautiful, rainy day. Unwind a little, chill for a bit, there will be more fascist causes to take up on the 'morrow.

Today is CONFEDERATE MEMORIAL DAY in Virgina, most other states of the Confederacy celebrate CONFEDERATE MEMORIAL DAY on June 3rd, the birthday of General Robert E. Lee.

While the concept of Memorial day began with the decoration of the graves of civil war dead, the practice now includes the graves of family members and friends, whether they were in the military, or, not.

I do hope that that fact doesn't upset yo' little ole facist void where a heart used to reside.

Bring on the hot dogs and beer!

-- Posted by Liberty_not_Tyranny on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 11:36 AM

Liberty

You are a lonely man, aren't you?

-- Posted by BABE on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 11:46 AM

Well, since that detachment was established in 1983, then, it couldn't have been the unit that you Marine Unit that you "Marched Point" with in Vietnam, could it now? You stated that you were a Marine in Vietnam, and gave that Amry unit as your Marine unit in RVN. However, since the Marines became involved in the Quartermaster school at Ft. Lee, VA in 1983, Eight years after the war, you made a mistake in claiming that it was your Marine unit in Vietnam. The war ended in 1975. Therefore, you made a mistake when you mentioned as WHO_ME? that you were a Marine with that "Marine unit" in Vietnam.

You have such a line of bs, Dru, that almost sounds reasonalbe to the unknowing. However when you said you "Marched Point" in Vietnam, you made a mistake that you didn't think that anyone would catch. You thought that you were home free when you gave that Army unit as your Marine Unit in Vietnam.

Now, as for your lack of courage, that yellow streak down your back, that is not something that could be remedied at the Southeast Hospital ER.

You got Republican political pull to prevent the Army from assigning you to a stinky little twelve month tour at Ft. Lee, Virgina, and that is something, Dru, that you will have to live with the rest of your life.

Now, it seems great. You get to stay home, answer phones and help out around your daddy's t-shirt shop. How the hell you got the politician to back you up on that one as being a "hardship" case, I will never know. Don't really want to know, Dru. It isn't my business. I am not the one who will get up every morning for the next 40 years, or, so and look in the mirror and see a coward.

I suspect that you are feeling a little bit of that now. That is why you are such a bully. You are acting out, because you are disappointed in yourself, yet, you still don't have the courage to go to Virgina, much less do what all the other ANG and Reservists in Missouri have done, at least one tour in Iraq, or, Afghanistan.

I don't know why you hesitate to go now. It is peaceful in Baghdad, the surge has worked, it is a piece of cake now, right? You and your little buddies say so, so it must be. Why not impress the hell out of all of us and go do 12 months in Iraq? Otherwise, Dru, over time, you will grow to hate yourself. You will do increasingly bizarre things as you try to deal with your cowardice.

Be a man. Go to Iraq.

-- Posted by Liberty_not_Tyranny on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 11:53 AM

Instructor

The actual ones that are capable of getting the name changed is AG Tidwell and the Govenor of the state. The head of all national Guard LtC Vaughn stated this himself. Sending it to your area reps will get the motion heard but you can by step that by sending it straight to the two individuals who can make it happen. Also if the guys serving in that unit will follow up the chain of command......unit commander, brigade commander etc then they can spped it up as well.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 11:55 AM

Liberty

Instructor has stepped on everyones toes at some point but it is not up to you, me or anyone else to judge him for where he chooses to serve or how he does it. Sure most of the reservist have served a tour in Iraq but many of them would have done anything to not have to. I have family over there now and peaceful is not a word any of them would use to describe it. Just because they do not end up serving a tour there does not mean they are a coward, many are told they are not suitable for one reason or another to be deployed. In Desert Storm when my father went one of the guys was left behind because he had well controlled asthma BUT in a war zone you may not be able to get the meds so even though he was healthy and felt he was capable the army said no, another stayed behind because he was flatfoot didnt stop him from joining but stopped him from being deployed. And who is to say it wouldn't be a real hardship on his family if he went, that is not your call to make so get over it. Today is the day to honor the military not cut one of its members down.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 12:02 PM

Is the Armory in Jackson currently named for a veteran?

If so, it is a little pre-mature to ask that it be renamed, without exploring the original naming of the Armory, and the deeds of that soldier.

-- Posted by Liberty_not_Tyranny on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 12:06 PM

I am not positive but from my understanding the armory is not currently named after anyone. I may be wrong as I am not that familiar with Jackson but I do know several memebers of that unit are behind the name change and I can not see them forgetting one and adding another.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 12:15 PM

Semoangel70,

Regular Army units will often give someone who has to take "maintenance medications" a medical discharge as it is not possible to guarantee the availability of those meds in a combat situation. I know a young man to whom this happened much to his disappointment. I have never been in the military myself due to a disability.

-- Posted by Red_Rhino on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 12:21 PM

If there is no previous name on the Armory, and members of his unit and the community would like to honor him by naming the Armory after him, then, why not?

Me'Lange's idea of naming the Gordonville Fire Station after SSGT Skelton would be an excellent alternative, if the firemen have no reservation, and if there were a situation which would make the naming of the Armory after him contentious due to loyality to a previous name.

It would be an honor to him and his family, but when it comes down to it, we are likely to still say that we are going to the fish fry at the "armory," or, there is a dance Saturday night at the "armory."

-- Posted by Liberty_not_Tyranny on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 12:27 PM

Most establishments even if named after someone are still refered to as the library, the school, armory etc but it is also known what the name of the place is and why the name is what it is. Even those who still serve will refer to the armory as just that but they know and respect the actual name as well. It is just a way for people to remember a great soldier walked through the doors and affected so many lives during his years of duty.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 12:31 PM

MeLange

Yes the procession was a beautiful sight and it warmed your heart all of the ones who stood out in the cold to honor someone they didn't know.

I seldom watched the news when my brother was there and now that my other brother is back over there again the tv is silent during broadcast of the war because I know that one day it might be them. It takes one hell of a brave soldier to come out of retirement and put their live on the line so another soldier can stay home with family and loved ones. Not only was he brave but giving and in the end he gave the ultimate sacrafice.

-- Posted by semoangel70 on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 12:36 PM

semoangel70

Oh, I agree that many of those who had to go to Iraq, for bush's cheezy little profit war, would have rather not. That is not the point. They went.

Dru does more than just step on toes here in the forum as you said. Dru crosses the line, and will continue to do so. Dru threatened one poster on numerous ocassions in that he wanted to use him as a punching bag, that he "carried" meaning that he carried a concealed weapon, and that he had cordon's, a particular round with his name on them. That is why he was banned a long time ago. The other poster made no threats. His problem with the SEM is that he repeated very crude language that Dru had orginally posted in a reply back to Dru.

Now, as for Dru's lack of service and cowardice. Well, yes, I have the right to call him on it. Dru has been a constant bully at the peace demonstrations in Cape. Dru even went so far as to file a false police report that a knife had been pulled on him by a diminutive demonstrator. The police arrived and no knife was found.

It was a "hardship" for your family members to go to Iraq. It was a "hardship" for all the Missouri ANG and Reservists to go to Iraq. It was a "hardship" for all the regular military to leave their families and go to Iraq, that is a given. I do not think that a case could be made for little ole Dru, out of all the Missourians who have served in Iraq, that he should sit on his a*ss in Cape Girardeau, answering the phone, shining a chair, and staying safe and sound in the arms of mommy, daddy and his wife, while others were not given the same opportunity to stay home and tend to family and business.

He made the statement in this forum that the Army wanted him to do 12 months at Ft. Lee, Va, but he claimed hardship. Now, I don't know a lot about dodging duty, but it would appear to me that you need the help of a Republican politician to push that ole "hardhsip" claim. Yes, when a bullying a*sshole such as Dru, runs their mouth at meetings where they were not invited, when he mingles among the peace demonstrators, hassles them and makes false claims about knives being pulled on him, and then gets on here and says things like he "Marched Point" in Vietnam, then, I do feel that I have a right to call him on it.

If he just kept his mouth shut for the most part, didn't bully anyone, and expressed his ignorance with decorum, then no one would bother him. Yet, he bullies in and out of the forum, makes multiple physicall threats, which are in no way "veiled," and spews the slime of the hypocrite. I hate hypocrites. Everyone is afraid at some point during combat, but if he just admitted it, or, kept it to himself, that he was scared to go, but didn't bully, then he would be able to post in relative peace.

I was being sarcastic when I said that things were "peaceful" in Baghdad. There have been so many here who have tried to propagandize the war, say that the surge is working, and all that crap.

I hope that your family members return safe and whole. They will be changed, combat does that, but perhaps they will have a supporting family that will allow them to recover at their own pace and be there when they need them, in understanding silence, or, otherwise.

-- Posted by Liberty_not_Tyranny on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 12:51 PM

poppa

I would be willing to "kiss and make up" as you suggested, but the problem is Dru tries to use his tongue too much and is so hansy.

-- Posted by Liberty_not_Tyranny on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 12:59 PM

Me'Lange,

There is a huge difference between your brother and Dru. Your brother went to Iraq, Dru did not. According to Dru's own post in this forum, the US Army wanted him to go to Ft. Lee, Virgina, and spend 12 months training troops. Dru refused to go, stating that it would be a hardship on his family's business. That is all according to Dru, in his own words.

To say that Dru is serving his country, is like saying that that cocaine snorting cowardly doofus bast*rd that is in the White House, served his country during the Vietnam War.

So, for refusing the Army's request that he go to Ft. Lee, Virgina and train troops for 12 months, you "thank him?"

If Dru had avoided going to Iraq by going to Canada, the Netherlands, or, wherever the hell they go these days to dodge duty, then, I would have no problem with that, because I would think that in that person's heart, they had their reasons for not going. If Dru had chosen to not go to Iraq, not go to Ft. Lee, Va, and just mind his own business, not harrass the peace demonstrators, and not try to be something that he is not, a super patriot, then I would have no problem with him. War is hell, you have a good chance of getting killed, losing an eye, or, a limb, or, returning drooling, in a diaper and brain damaged. War is scary, admit it, but when you jack around with people who support peace, try to get press for yourself, and just be an all around a*sshole, then, someone needs to point out his errors to him. When someone makes themselves into a "Look at ME, I am a super patriot." "I will mess with those peace demonstrators and make their lives miserable," and all his foolishness, then, yes, I have a problem with that, and I reserve my right to judge accordingly.

Thank you for your opinion.

-- Posted by Liberty_not_Tyranny on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 1:25 PM

poppa

Thank you for the wise counsel. You are correct, I do not have my anger under control. There is a lot going on right now, and I am in no mood to allow Dru to take shots at me without responding.

But, again, you are right. It just esclates to an unhealthy level of negativity, so, I will pause now, go to lunch, and when I return, much later, I will not speak of this again.

-- Posted by Liberty_not_Tyranny on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 1:31 PM

Me'Lange

You're welcome, also.... when I was a child, so, many, many years ago, I used to hear this expression. I never knew where it came from, until you wrote "your welcome," and I wanted to respond... The expression was, "You're as welcome as the flowers in May." I didn't know it was a song title, I just thought it was a quaint expression. ya'all sing it loud, sing it proud... HANK SNOW.

"Last night I dreamed a sweet sweet dream

I thought I saw my home sweet home

And oh how grand it all did seem I made a vow no more to roam

By that dear old village church I strolled

While the bell in the steeple sadly told

I saw my daddy old and grey I heard my dear old mother say

You're as welcome as the flowers in May

And we love you in the same old way

We've been waiting for you day by day

You're as welcome as the flowers in May

[ guitar ]

We've been waiting for you day by day

You're as welcome as the flowers in May"

I had to get this in, because there taint too many more days left in May.

-- Posted by Liberty_not_Tyranny on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 1:48 PM

Liberty

Why don't you just let Nam go...forever. Many served (including my brother), came home and got on with their lives. Your service there was not any bigger nor badder than any other war. But you seem to be a 'professional Nam vet' who thinks your service is more than a blip on the screen of history and entitles you to belittle other warriors. Don't do it today!

-- Posted by BABE on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 2:20 PM

Nice to see you know so much abut my life michael. You are wrong on everything you pointed out. First the knife incident in the park. Here is the case.net charge against a Nathan Botsch of Dexter (the person who pulled the knife on me). Check the dates with the SE Missourian story and the corresponding dates on case.net.

http://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/base/we...

Do a litigant name search for "Nathan Botsch" and see for yourself.

Second, my military service. I have been in the Reserves and National Guard for a combined 21 + years. For the last 10 years, I have been a member in a training division consisting of drill sergeants and instructors. The vast majority of us have not participated in the current GWOT (at least not being in theater) because the Army knows it doesn't make sense to send their subject matter experts into a combat situation.

In 2005 I VOLUNTEERED for a 20 MONTH mission to Afghanistan. I ended up on an alternative list (totally random) and did not have to go even after stating that if ANYONE wanted out of the mission, myself (and several others) would go in their place. No one volunteered to leave. I left OKC to return home.

Since then, the Army HAS NEVER issued orders activating me for ANY reason. Contrary to want MJB believes, my family does not have influence over the needs of the US Army.

I am able to leave the Army at any point as I have over 20 years service. I choose to stay. Training Troops is my passion and I will continue to do so until I decide to leave. I currently am required to go one weekend a month and two weeks a year to fulfill my obligations. Since the GWOT began, I have done multiple annual trainings (17 days each) every year.

I am NOT WHO ME! I have no clue as to what his identity is nor do I care. I post under Instructor only. No other ID's.

Now you can believe a man who has a wife and five wonderful children, who works hard, devotes many hours to his country or MJB who has nothing good to say about anything (especially the USA), never been married, no children and thinks black helicopters are circling his "house" with blacked out windows and trashed piled to the ceiling.

Hence forth, I will no longer engage the 350 lb pile of human wreckage known as michael j ballou. Done with it and no longer wish to engage a person who makes up half truths and believes the government is personally out to get him. He has mental issues as evident by his propensity to hoard refuse in his "house".

PS: The rounds are known as Corbons, not cordons. Get it right.

-- Posted by Instructor_aka____________ on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 3:53 PM

To Babe's post

I served in Korea--1951-1952.

-- Posted by changedname on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 5:12 PM

dexterite

I want to thank you personally for your service.

-- Posted by BABE on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 6:09 PM

Although we never agree Dexterite, sincere thanks for your service.

Once again, Thank You.

-- Posted by Instructor_aka____________ on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 6:13 PM

Thanks for your comments, I appreciate them.

Instructor, I didnt realize we saw things so much differently, I rarely post anymore, read everyday, am so sad things are going the way they are in the good old USA.

-- Posted by changedname on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 8:23 PM


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