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Speak out 3/28/08

Friday, March 28, 2008

Will and courage

WILL AND moral courage are the best weapons there are, right? Tell that to the Tibetans.

High-fructose syrup

HIGH-FRUCTOSE corn syrup does not have the same amount of calories as sugar. It has substantially more. Also, because it is altered from its natural state, it is not processed by the body the same way sugar is processed. More of the calories are stored as fat.

Photo IDs

ALL PEOPLE who register to vote and who vote in elections should be required to have a state-issued ID card as proof of citizenship, period. This crap about disenfranchisement is just that. If you cannot be bothered to do something simple like acquire a photo ID to prove who you are when exercising the greatest privilege ever bestowed upon citizens of any nation, then do us all a favor and stay home.

Business basics

WHY ARE basic economic principles so hard for people to grasp? Raising prices on a product you sell because the replacement cost has increased is not gouging, whether it's widgets, gasoline or thumbtacks. There is a minimum markup on every product you buy that represents the amount over cost the retailer has to collect in order to meet his expenses and stay in business. This is for all products, including gasoline. If a station owner has 10,000 gallons of fuel in his tanks and his replacement cost increases, he must immediately increase his selling price in order to meet his minimum markup so he can replace what he is selling and stay in business and have the fuel for you to buy and the money to pay his employees' salaries, rent, utilities, insurance and taxes. Conversely, if his replacement cost on the 10,000 gallons falls, he still has to pay for what he has in his tanks. If he sells that at a loss, we're back to the "not able to stay in business" scenario again. I love it when people who have never run a business decide they know more about how things work than those who do own businesses.

Prayer and pledge

I SEE from Cape Girardeau City Council's agendas that the council has both prayer and the pledge of allegiance before meetings begin. Why can't the Chaffee City Council do the same?

Pinching everyone

A TRUCK driver said the rest of us may complain about the high gasoline prices, but the "real pinch" is on him. Really? Many of us are barely making ends meet, and with the rise in gas prices we are having to do without necessities. Believe me, the "real pinch" is on more people than truck drivers.

Serious about autism

ALL THIS feel-good state legislation about autism will go for naught unless the Missouri Legislature follows the lead of Arizona and mandates at least $50,000 per child coverage for intense applied behavioral analysis. Are our state legislators serious, or just interested in public relations and photo ops?

Freak event

YES, I had water in my basement after the torrential rain event. Do I expect the city to pay? No. That was a freak event that no one could plan for. We got almost double the amount of rainfall that was on record for a 24-hour period. I am thankful the Cape LaCroix flood project and the detention basin were built. If that hadn't been in place, things would have been a lot worse than in 1986.

Easy putts

ONLY THREE more sinkholes to go, and those who have trouble with their short game will have a great golf course.

No more taxes

CAPE GIRARDEAU, stop taxing us to death. No more new taxes. Make do with what you have. Make cuts where you have to, like we have to do every day to get by in this weak economy.

A big deal

JAY McMULLIN, I am so proud to work with you at Fed¿Ex. You told us helping the gentleman was "no big deal." Then I saw the picture. It was a "big deal," and I am sure Odell Bunch agrees. You're humble about all this, but you deserve all the praise you are getting. Thanks for stopping to help and for working the rest of the day in wet feet and for helping to cover a second route.

Eliminate tax cut

GARY RUST apparently doesn't like it, but I favor eliminating the Bush tax cut for the rich so that we can begin to move toward a more balanced budget, restore some sense of fiscal discipline and begin digging the rapidly sinking economy out of an ever deepening ditch.

Conservative shift

RUSH LIMBAUGH recently said in part, "I could cite several other things of conservative orthodoxy" taught to him by Bill Buckley. He could have, but he didn't. I would imagine the reason Limbaugh refrained is because he has virtually abandoned all of Buckley's conservative orthodoxy in favor of big-government Republican rule combined with an idealistic foreign policy advocating the spread of demo¿cracy that would make the likes of Woodrow Wilson and even Napoleon blush.

Stoic Red Star

THE GOOD, hard-working residents of the Red Star neighborhood have received the short end of the stick from the city council and other government entities since time immemorial. As a result, they have often paid a severe price and are doing so once again but, unlike others, get on with their lives and accept their fate in stoic silence.

Kind acts

MANY THANK-YOU comments have been posted regarding the ice storm cleanup for workers, companies and cities doing their job. Well done. I would also like to thank all those who perform acts of kindness by donating their time and services without being asked or paid to do so. Thank you to those who have assisted with the ice storm and flood. Thank you to those who offer kind acts year around when others are too busy to notice.

Fact Check
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-- Posted by Brill on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 5:47 AM

Conservative shift

You've got Rush Limbaugh's, and the rest of these phony conservatives number, alright. They are neocons, and globalists, who not only betrayed conservative principles, but betrayed their country and their countrymen, as well.

-- Posted by Brill on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 5:52 AM

Business basics

Ah, yes, yet another attempt to gain sympathy for the poor oil company cronies of Bush and shtup us in the process.

-- Posted by Brill on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 6:01 AM

Fox News is trying to make something out of nothing.

A couple of congressmen went to Baghdad prior to the murderouws attack upon the Iraqi people by bush and the Zionists in his regime. The story that is out about that trip says that the Iraqi government paid for all, or, part of that trip.

If they are going to investigate that legitimate trip, that congressmen took to Baghdad, when that nutty bast*rd in the White House was about to spill American blood on behalf of his conspirators, composed of Neocons, Emprie Building PNAC-ers, CFR-ers, Zionists, globalists, oil company cronies, corporations and war profiteers, then, lets investigate why so many US politicans make a pilgrimage to Israel prior to an election to gaim the approval of a foreign nation, a murderous, devious terrorist state, Israel.

Who pays for these election timed trips by our Congressmen, Senators, and Presidential candidates? Do they pay their own way? Does a foreign power, a terrorist state, Israel pay for the trips?

If the Republicans, who are howiling for blood over these congressmen who went to Baghdad prior to the Zionist infested bush regimes attack upon the Iraqi people, will they, also, support investigations into an outrageous number of trips to Israel by candidates of both parties?

President Saddam Hussein, blessings be upon him, even offered to debate your dullard president bush before bush attacked. Bush couldn't debate a Leopold 3rd grader, much less, a man of President Saddam Hussein's intelect.

May one day we see this band of war criminals be brought to justice in a criminal court for their crimes.

-- Posted by Brill on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 6:37 AM


Instead of "wondering" minds, it is my considered opinion, that you will mostly find "wandering", if not "closed" minds in southeast Missouri.

-- Posted by Brill on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 6:49 AM



Olive Garden is a go. If for some reason we think it will be too hard to get in and out by say 1-1:30 we can move else where, but let all meet up at Olive Garden and see.

Thats my thoughts anyway. Will try and monitor in case that changes befor noon. Return you to your local late breaking program already in progress......

-- Posted by Pups on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 6:54 AM

Pups, Olive Garden sounds good, Aggie is still gone so won't make it today, and I have a Dr. appt.


-- Posted by Aggiefan/Twiggy on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 7:11 AM

Just a clarification about ABA: It is not an examination,rather a form of treatment. While it would be nice to have funding come, it cannot be from the government in that form. However, there should be a mandate passed that requires private insurance, as well as medicaid to cover the cost of the treatment. While I did not write the original speak out comment, I would bet that person is a parent of a child that desperately needs the treatment yet financially cannot afford it. Blessings.......

-- Posted by inallthingsgivethanks on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 9:11 AM

pinching everyone,

Since when are truck drivers not people also.

Stoic Red Star,

Does anyone have any idea what this caller is referring to?

-- Posted by SWBG on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 9:14 AM


Well put. Thanks for the clarification.

-- Posted by SWBG on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 9:17 AM

Ok so we're on for the olive garden at noon. I have been talking to Levi and I think I might get him out there today too. I have to pick him up, he doesn't like to drive in Cape. He is probably going to get mad I said that. Anyway I hope to see you all there.

-- Posted by Donnie on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 9:18 AM


The red star district is a part of old Cape down by the river. There used to be (not sure if may still be) a Red Star Bapt Church.

-- Posted by Donnie on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 9:23 AM

Eliminate tax cut

Let me preface this with the fact that I am not a wealthy person and I have absolutely zero inherited wealth. I do however believe in fairness. In the “eliminate tax cut” post the poster (and a lot of other people) implies that the wealthy are not carrying their own weight and now the evil Bush has let them off even more. Nothing could be further from the truth. The top 50% of wage earners pay 96.03% of the taxes of this nation. The top 10% of the wage earners pay 64.89% of this nations taxes and get this the top 5% of wage earners pay 53.25 % of the nations taxes. The top 1% of our wage earners pay more than 10 TIMES the amount paid by the entire bottom 50%.

Put another way, how do you give someone a “tax cut” on the bottom 40% when they aren’t paying any taxes to begin with and actually getting money redistributed to them from the wealthy in the form of “earned-income tax credit”

Who is John Gault?

-- Posted by Donnie on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 9:42 AM

Tell ya what Brill(Mike)your Democrats did not fare out

well during those Clinton days concerning military fatalities.

Clinton years...14,000 deaths

George w...7,932 to date

Things are not quite as bad as you paint now are they?

Give it a rest!You haven't a clue about people or the World in General.Take another dose of lith and 1/2 tab of Ziprexa and Im sure you will feel better tomorrow!

-- Posted by GREYWOLF on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 9:43 AM

GREYWOLF seems to believe anything that hits his inbox. Perhaps he should take five minutes to find some facts before berating others about 'having a clue.'




Kind of sick that people want to play the "who had more dead people in office" game, but if you want to play it, get it right. Bush wins the "most dead people" trophy.

-- Posted by FriendO on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 10:04 AM


I know where the Red Star District is I live in it. I was wondering what the caller was referring to about getting the short end of the stick again at the city council meeting.

I would like to know if I am getting shafted on something. Currently do not feel shafted. However if I need to feel shafted I sure want to know so I can change how I feel.

-- Posted by SWBG on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 10:10 AM

Ok...I will do Olive Garden...to make sure that I can get in and out before time I will be there around 11:45ish and I'll ask for a table in non-smoking. I'll just let them know that a large group will probably be joining me. I'm pretty noticeable today....blue and white 70's print shirt and really pregnant. LOL.

-- Posted by Superbethie on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 10:18 AM


Sorry bout that I was taking your post a little too literal.

-- Posted by Donnie on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 10:44 AM

Business Basics-

Please, open up your books and let us see how much profit you are really making on gasoline. Let's put this to rest.

Ohh the Olive Garden feast sounds wonderful, unfortunately I'll be at Zia's eating lunch on the Hill today. ;o)

-- Posted by Proud_Democrat on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 10:54 AM

re: easy putts

LOL I love it!

-- Posted by conservababe on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 11:05 AM

re: serious about autism

From the way Gov Blunt has been trying to throw taxpayer monies at every disease known to man...I wouldn't be a bit surprised if you got your $50,000.

-- Posted by conservababe on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 11:33 AM


LOL. Yes it's always good to know when you need to feel shafted.

-- Posted by outnabout on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 11:59 AM

Re Business Basics

The 'problem' is not with the small business owner with a gas station, the problem is at the top of the chain. Indeed, if crude oil prices go up, then refined products like gasoline will go up. What we pay at the pump is decided by international oil cartels and the gas companies, who in case you have missed it, have managed to make staggering record profits even in these troubled times (financially as well as militarily.)

I have a proposition: Since our tax dollars and our military people's lives are paying to subsidize the flow of oil and the pockets of the oil people, then maybe we should have some say in it's disposition.

-- Posted by MoxFulder on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 12:07 PM

Attention all hands: Since today's paper, including the opinion section, appears to be a harbinger of not-so-interesting things to come this weekend (no big, since I'll be stuck on 24/7-5 "nice-nice" duty anyway), I thought I'd drop a little "stink-nuc" on ya now for your personal gratification.

DISCLAIMER: Due to "extremist" censorship methods of this paper's Web site, I regret to inform you that the accompanying photo (albeit a precious one!) to the somewhat fake history lesson below, depicting granny demonstrating the proper hoisting of her center shaft, will not be included for obvious reasons. "Other than that, Mrs Lincoln, enjoy the play!"

The History of the Middle Finger

Well, now......here's something I never knew before, and now that I know it, I feel compelled to send it on to my more intelligent friends in the hope that they, too, will feel edified. Isn't history more fun when you know something about it?

Before the Battle of Agincourt in 1415, the French, anticipating victory over the English, proposed to cut off the middle finger of all captured English soldiers. Without the middle finger it would be impossible to draw the renowned English longbow and therefore they would be incapable of fighting in the future. This famous English longbow was made of the native English Yew tree, and the act of drawing the longbow was known as "plucking the yew" (or "pluck yew").

Much to the bewilderment of the French, the English won a major upset and began mocking the French by waving their middle fingers at the defeated French, saying, See, we can still pluck yew! Since 'pluck yew' is rather difficult to say, the difficult consonant cluster at the beginning has gradually changed to a labiodentals fricative F', and thus the words often used in conjunction with the one-finger-salute! It is also because of the pheasant feathers on the arrows used with the longbow that the symbolic gesture is known as "giving the bird."


And yew thought yew knew every plucking thing.

End of Lesson/story

Homework per above lesson plan: Perhaps the usual-suspect Friday "luncheon lizards" (stated with semi-affection, of course!) may practice their archery form and/or hand-signalling methods (& I don't mean for communicating with the deaf!) with each other today while imbibing at said luncheon. Burma Shave. Herr out (lurking).

-- Posted by Herr_Hauptmann_DES on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 12:12 PM


your right the numbers can be spun in many ways but the bottom line here is that my point is still correct!

Things are not as bad as some paint them to be.The truth is that in comparison our losses are not near being out of control considering the enemy we are fighting in 2008.About.com is not all that reliable a source either Friendo!

-- Posted by GREYWOLF on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 12:19 PM

Does anyone wish to wax lyrical of Sam Blackwell as have Mr Rust and Mr Sullivan in their columns today? I had to giggle as they told us that, thankfully, he will still be writing his Thursday columns. I, for one, have never cared for his pseudo mystical and preachy columns. I was hoping the paper would give the slot to someone else...anyone else.

-- Posted by conservababe on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 12:38 PM

Old Codger

I completely agree with your post and quote. The author has truly described our enemies.

-- Posted by conservababe on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 12:56 PM

I missed lunch! Sinus headache... from the storm, perhaps. From the earlier posts, looks like I missed a big crowd, too. Not to mention my favorite salad spot!

-- Posted by nuit_de_trois_chiens on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 2:14 PM

By the way Friendo!!!!!

"President Saddam Hussein, blessings be upon him"

Now there is a good example of "berating" my fellow

vets as well as all our soldiers in harms way!These

are the words of Brill earlier,you know,the person you are defending!!Now, if you feel like calling me a "sick person" and telling me I should not berate someone when they have NO CLUE! so be it.Frankly,no response from someone like youself would be just dandy too.Oh and sorry for the delay in posting this but like

you I have work to do.

-- Posted by GREYWOLF on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 2:33 PM

After thinking about that quote from Brill earlier,

Perhaps there is much truth in "domestic terrorist" and they may be closer then we could imagine.Oh well,

just a passing thought from the Wolf.

-- Posted by GREYWOLF on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 2:37 PM


Saddam is dead, they can bless him all they want to. Don't really matter at this point.


What does the DES stand for?

-- Posted by Donnie on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 3:06 PM

at the risk of starting a fight please I want to get the general concensus on this.

Is it ok for a school resource officer to use a taser on and 11 year old girl? This child shoved a desk and a chair and punched the officer in the face. Does that still make it ok? Why or why not?

-- Posted by NickeyB63780 on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 3:07 PM

It is a public elementary school

-- Posted by NickeyB63780 on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 3:23 PM


Interesting you should ask about D.E.S., and I'd be glad to attempt an explanation of it as best I as I'm allowed to. But for now, I've got to get out and get some errands done before I go on weekend duty this afternoon. But since you seem to be a vet of more recent & critical events (like Iraq), perhaps you'd be interested in some of the concepts I'll try to share with you. If you'll be around this weekend, try hitting me up with the same question and I'll try to explain a bit of it, while tap-dancing between case loads. OK?


I believe we've had some harsh words in the past; however, the more I read your stuff, the more I like your attitude!

Back in awhile. Herr out.

-- Posted by Herr_Hauptmann_DES on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 3:25 PM


NO, it is not okay for an officer to taser an eleven year old under any circumstances other than if he/she is armed with a weapon.

I felt the same of a six year old being handcuffed and taken to jail because she had a physical tantrum in class.

-- Posted by conservababe on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 3:45 PM

Here is one of the links to the story however different websites report it differently (as we all know) I feel that while the child was wrong yes and she does deserve punishment being hit with a taser is kinda outta line (ok WAY outta line)


-- Posted by NickeyB63780 on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 3:48 PM

Again my opionion but still just kind of sucks to know that if this would have happened in the parents home (the child hit the parent the parent used a taser) that parent would have went to jail for abuse but a resource officer does it and its justifiable I just don't see the logic in that. If the parent is bruised and you can tell and the kid admits to it that is. Just a silly double standard why are police officers so often in situations above the law when they wear the badge ( not all so please don't misconstrue)

-- Posted by NickeyB63780 on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 3:51 PM


Probably would not have tasered her - but she would probably need some dental work...

-- Posted by LittleMac on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 3:57 PM

LMAO I know LittleMac I mean if I would have got punched by an 11 year old I woulda been ****** off but not in fear for my life or safety. My ego and pride would have been real bruised right along with my face I can tell ya that but I wouldn't have been the only one in that shape LOL j/k you know what I mean

-- Posted by NickeyB63780 on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 4:14 PM


It appears that the woman officer could not physically subdue an eleven year old or talk her down. Most Leo's are skilled at taking down or talking down an unruly or fleeing person without resorting to extreme measures unless they have reason to believe they are armed. If she is not competent then she should be fired. Perhaps she got the job because she has an associate degree in Criminal Justice.

-- Posted by conservababe on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 4:15 PM


This would depend on the size and strenght disparity between the officer and 11 year old. We live in a PC time where a five foot nothing 90 pound officer might be working by themselves. I don't care about an age, that is a number, what physical danger did they present. I would hope that there wouldn't be an 11 year old that I could not subdue safely and securly without haveing to rely on chemical or mechanical levels of force. I have not seen the 11 year old so I don't know. What history did the 11 year old have? To answer your question I would have to know the situation surrounding. It sounds terrible to say "the cops tazed an 11 year old" and like I said I don't know of an 11 year old that I would have to taze but I would not be too quick to condem without knowing the rest of the story.

-- Posted by Donnie on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 4:15 PM

Just a comparison really as to what is acceptable by law enforcement for a parent to do versus what the officers are truly within the limits of the law to do as well I find that disturbing actually that there is a double standard that bad

-- Posted by NickeyB63780 on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 4:16 PM

Thank you Herr and ditto...

all in good debate and opinion. I try not to disrespect but it aint easy at times!!

-- Posted by GREYWOLF on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 4:18 PM

You know, I just have to say, I have seen 12 year olds as big and as heavy as grown men, even the girls. And I have seen them in a rage and violent. And the resource officer was female so she could have been built smaller. So it is possible she had to be subdued this way.

-- Posted by nuit_de_trois_chiens on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 4:18 PM


If a five foot nothing weighing 90 pounds could not cannot handle this situation then she shouldn't be a LEO. But of course, the PC trend has allowed women to be hired when they are in no way qualified for the job.

The standards have been lowered to allow women to become firefighters. Is it the same with LEO's?

-- Posted by conservababe on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 4:22 PM

Donnie thank you for your take on it and from what I have read she has a history of behavioral problems and its is wrong for anyone to assault an officer of the law here is another link to this story from a local to that area news station hope this is a little more helpful


-- Posted by NickeyB63780 on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 4:23 PM


I looked up the story (I am having a slow day waiting on a busy night). Anyway the student was 5'5" 160-170 pounds. Thats not much smaller than me. To what "double standard" do you speak of. If a kid socks mom in the nose and mom has to subdue her, then she has to subdue her. Give me a better option. Obviously the officer did not have the physical mass necessary to control the situation so she elevated in the continum of force.

-- Posted by Donnie on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 4:26 PM

Tasers have caused deaths.I know some in here think they are justified but I can't agree.Why was a taser within the walls of a public school?Frankly I have a problem with that in itself.I also have a problem with it being used on a Child of 11 and by someone who obviously should not have one.

The other side to this is why is an 11 year old child assaulting Teachers or any adult?The parents need to be help responsible here.Perhaps its time we require parenting skills as a High school mandatory class in this country!Too many parents fail in this subject.

-- Posted by GREYWOLF on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 4:26 PM

The double standard I am refering to (please don't take offense by the way none is meant) is that it is ok for a police officer to use force on a child however if a parent is trying to subdue a child that is violent toward another child or even the parent themself the parent (in my experience) is the one that ends up in trouble not the child the parent loses all power in these situations and the child has all of it knowing now that regardless of what the parent says the state agencies and police are going to believe them over their parent and it turns the household upside down in many cases. This by no means is law enforcement's fault many schools in the area stress to children that if your parent is mean to you in anyway you just tell a teacher and we will call someone to make them stop.

Anyway whole new issue there but my point is that if its ok for an officer of the law to use force to subdue a child and the if the parent tries to use necessary force also who is more likely to get in trouble the parent or the police???

-- Posted by NickeyB63780 on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 4:32 PM


Size strenght and sex can have no more to do with hiring then age race and religion. They are all taboo subjects on hiring boards. The military even has to have seperate standards on push ups, sit ups and 2 mile run. People think that LEOs have some magic bullet to stop every situation safely and quickly. They don't. Tazers are a wonderful tool. I have been tazed, twice. I hated it. I would probably rather be tazed then shot and that is many times the choice to be made.

-- Posted by Donnie on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 4:33 PM

No, I was responding to this:

"We live at a time in which collective insanity has become the norm by which human behavior is to be judged. The willingness of men and women to commit their thinking, their lives, their material wealth, and the lives of their children and grandchildren to wars, genocides, torture, police-state brutalities, and the destruction of economies, reflects the danger in all forms of collective identity...To admit that the war is criminal and immoral, is to admit that, by identifying with the state, one's sense of being is also criminal and immoral."

And I do think that it defines our enemy's mindset.

-- Posted by conservababe on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 4:35 PM


I am nearly forty and I would not dream of raising a hand to my mother if she had a tazer or not. Of course my mother still repoes cars for a living and she is a little rough.

-- Posted by Donnie on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 4:36 PM


Thank you for admitting that relaxed standards for women in the military, fire and police departments are detrimental to our safety.

-- Posted by conservababe on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 4:40 PM

I will have to agree with Donnie. While we all have and are entitled to our opinions LEO's have extensive training in the Continuum of Force and their actions are governed by laws as well as Departmental Policy and it would seem they would know whether such actions are justified. If the actions are reviewed by their superiors or courts, then they will be disciplined. While my work did not involve dealing with juveniles, only adults, I have worked with and around small statured Juvenile Officers, State and Federal PO's and uniformed LEO's who would be unable to deal effectively with a totally out of control individual of this size of any age. If you have never been involved in a violent encounter of this nature, it is truly hard to appreciate. I was never involved in anything like this and have no personal experience with tasers, so my opinion might not be worth much.

-- Posted by D'oh on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 4:42 PM

No that is not what I meant I don't think parents should use tasers on children as a means of punishment by any means. I was trying to use this as an example of if the parent did this would the parent be in trouble given the exact same situation? I believe the parent would have come under fire.

What I meant to say was that say the law enforcement officer grabbed the child's arm and it twisted and broke or popped out of socket that would have been acceptable. But if the parent would have done that very same grabbing motion and the child reacted in the same way and broke popped out of socket etc ( u get the picture) and the parent then took the child to the hospital the hospital would have called the police on the parent for abuse but the police are safe because they are within the means of the law. If that doesn't make sense let me know and I will try to explain it differently

-- Posted by NickeyB63780 on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 4:45 PM

Sorry left something out of the scenario the parent is also trying to subdue the child because that child is causing physical harm to another child. That is the reason why the parent grabs the child and said child twists....

-- Posted by NickeyB63780 on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 4:47 PM


Thats a similar link to the one I found. I gotta say after reading what the parents and officer said I think the officer was within bounds. I would ask you to put yourself in the shoes of the little boy that the out of control kid was pushing out into traffic. You all (me too) would be asking the school and officer how they could let that go on and can they please get control of their school.

Also I have never known of a parent getting into any legal problems for breaking up a fight or subduing their combative child. I have two boys and a two year old daughter. I have laid hands on them like any other parent.

I was the youngest of six boys. My father was ill the last several years of my childhood and died while I was in my teens. The memory I have more regret about than any other was coming home intoxicated trying to sneak in while I was fifteen. My father caught me, he had been waiting for me after he drove around town looking for me. I, in my intoxicated haze, made the critical desicion that dad couldn't tell me what to do anymore and I was going to bed. I pushed past him on my way to me bedroom. He did not have the physical prowess anymore to lay hands on me but he did pick up a three legged ashtray stand and clubed me over the head. Well the ashtray broke and I woke up the next morning with a huge jack knot. My dad didn't break any laws. I was just stupid. He adjusted that. He died a short while later but up to his dying day I never tried him out again.

PS I had to glue the ashtray back together and after I was out on my own I ended up with it. It is still one of my most prized posessions and I don't smoke

-- Posted by Donnie on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 4:51 PM

And to answer your question Mel although why I would find it ok to use a taser on a child regardless of what they do If someone I don't care who they THINK they are EVER used a taser on My 11 year old child (and I have one that is close to that age) I would beat the holy living crap outta them let them heal up and do it again for good measure. If an electrical current can stop a heart what makes them think that a taser is safe to use on a child whose nervous system is still developing. After that I would sue the pants off that school and that police officer and that deparment and school district

-- Posted by NickeyB63780 on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 4:51 PM

I can't believe I just shared that story.

-- Posted by Donnie on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 4:52 PM


Always we make the loop and come back to the fact that the 'small statured' LEO is at a disadvantage. Of course they are, as our qualification standards have been lowered. Thank you, my government, for the discrimination laws that allow for 11 year old children to be tasered by LEO's and firefighters who can't carry a man down a ladder.

-- Posted by conservababe on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 4:54 PM

I gotta go my day actually is about to start getting busy. Had a great time a lunch and a nice discussion today.

-- Posted by Donnie on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 4:55 PM


Didn't mean to sound offended but pregnant chicks can be so dang touchy sorry if I sounded like I was mad I wasn't and didn't mean to come off that way

-- Posted by NickeyB63780 on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 4:56 PM


Thank you for sharing that story as hard as that may have been for you to.

-- Posted by NickeyB63780 on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 4:59 PM


That was an interesting story and it says a lot about your dad and the man you came to be. I think I would have liked to have known him.

-- Posted by D'oh on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 5:05 PM


I'm guessing that some misunderstood your quote or at least your meaning behind it.

-- Posted by Pups on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 5:13 PM


I have absolutely no problem with a female Police Officer, Firefighter or Soldiers and believe they can be a valuable addition to any organization. I have worked with some very good ones. Having said that, I do agree that changing the physical requirements and strength levels regardless of gender has been detrimental and has cost lives. Maybe someone has the proof to refute that, but I haven't seen it.

-- Posted by D'oh on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 5:15 PM


Sorry, you are never going to convince me that my Sister-n-Law made it to the rank of lt.Col and flew fighter jets because she was PC'd into her job. She was and is capable of taking out a man two/three times her size (5'5" 130) and is capable of doing all the physical requirements that the men in her squad were required to do.

-- Posted by Pups on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 5:17 PM


Not directed to me, but I think you described it perfectly. If a person can do the job effectively, gender should not be a consideration. Small stature is not restricted to females. The best I remember Audie Murphy was pretty small in size and he did OK.

-- Posted by D'oh on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 5:31 PM


Thanks, I'm just very proud of her, can you tell?? LOL

-- Posted by Pups on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 5:37 PM


You have every right to be, she sounds like quite an accomplished individual.

-- Posted by D'oh on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 5:41 PM

Hrm...if my avatar ever updates I'll show you bebe's face! I must say...3d ultrasounds are one of the coolest things I've ever seen. *grinz happily*

-- Posted by Superbethie on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 5:42 PM

Gender should not be a consideration in hiring in the military, fire or police departments....if no standards are lowered for women. But, they are.

-- Posted by conservababe on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 5:45 PM


Great to finally meet you and Mr Super!! And my self proclaimed Godson looks awesome. Even if the avitar is a bit small. lol Just one question, did he do his Mom proud and do his impression of Gene?? hehe

-- Posted by Pups on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 5:53 PM


Somewhat related. My son went through POST Certification at SEMO and is now a Police Officer. He served in the 82nd Airborne. He is well over six feet and in excellent condition. There was a small statured female in his class at SEMO that wiped the floor with the men and sure made a believer out of them. It is all about ability, both physical and mental. Set the same standards and expectations for everyone that are sufficient to accomplish the job.

-- Posted by D'oh on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 5:54 PM


-- Posted by Pups on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 5:57 PM



-- Posted by Pups on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 5:59 PM

About the city of Chaffee needing prayer at the beginning of their meetings, I think its the poeple of Chaffee that need prayer with these yo yo's running the city.Chaffee need all aldermen.and the mayor removed and start over with new and ownest poeple in office.Don't think they are disownest just ask what they did to Steve Seyer and the land he was purchasing,dout if they will talk about it ,under the table dealings right mayor!!!

-- Posted by hunter47 on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 6:00 PM

Mel--It was good to see you at lunch too!

Pups--Nice to finally "meet" you! I think he was trying hard...he had his hands up there...*grinz*

I have the bigger ones over on my myspace. Dang avatar shrinkage---SE Moderator...bring back the bigger avatars, plz...kkthanx!!

-- Posted by Superbethie on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 6:03 PM


Can or will you elaborate of the situation you mention?

-- Posted by conservababe on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 6:06 PM


Mr Super isn't as quiet as you led me to believe. LOL I think he could hold his own in here if he so chooses. :-) Oh, and it might be because of the upcoming arrival of my Godson (self appointed), but your Goth appearance was in no way shocking or out of the level of norm. If that made sense? lol

-- Posted by Pups on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 6:10 PM

I believe that all fire and police officers should meet weight and physical requirements to maintain employment.

An overweight, out of shape fireman or police officer can not truly perform their jobs to standard.

Just my opinion, hope no one was mentally effected by the above comment.

Brill, have a great day! You are truly a credit to mankind!

-- Posted by Instructor_aka____________ on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 6:12 PM


How much pain did that cause for you to type??? LMAO j/k

-- Posted by Pups on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 6:15 PM


Mr. Super is only quiet when he chooses to be. He just isn't a huge online poster..

Oh..and I am totally tame at the moment...

none of my great clothes fit right now.

I'm stuck in fat and frumpy...which is definitely not my desired style. LOL

-- Posted by Superbethie on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 6:17 PM


You look no where near fat and frumpy!! You glow in the expectant arrival of Bebe!!

-- Posted by Pups on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 6:19 PM

Well hello all, sounds like I missed a good lunchen again.


I liked your joke LOL

About the 11 years old being tazered I don't like it, sounds like she was awfully big for 11, but still don't think I would agree with her being tazered. I wouldn't want that done to my grand child or my kids when they were that age.

As far as parents getting in trouble for trying to stop a child from hurting a sibling or anyone else for that matter. I'm sorry to say that yes I have seen the law step in and accuse the parent of hurting or abusing that child because of how they twist,kick or throw themselves into something and get hurt. I wouldn't have believed that kind of thing really to happen, but have seen it with my own eyes.

Years ago my step daughter (who was twice my size then and still is ) pushed me and shoved me around, she dislocated my ankle and screwed up my back. The police officer that I talked to said it was a good think I didn't hit her back, becuase I would have been charged with child abuse, even though I would have been trying to protect myself.

-- Posted by Aggiefan/Twiggy on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 6:23 PM

aww...ty..it's just hard to dress so outside my element. LOL

-- Posted by Superbethie on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 6:25 PM

Oh by the way this is not Aggiefan he is still gone, it's Twiggy, using his sign in since we can't have two.

-- Posted by Aggiefan/Twiggy on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 6:25 PM


I don't know if you're here right now, but feel I need to clarify something. I never meant to imply that someone had to see all movies made to be good at movies. Just meant that yes the two movies you mentioned yesterday were great and starred John Wayne just didn't also star Maureen O'hara.

And I am totally confident that you would wipe the floor with me when it comes to modern movies.

-- Posted by Pups on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 6:27 PM


Sorry you were unable to make lunch. I think you would have enjoyed the discussion as well as the food. Hope your Dr appointment went well.

-- Posted by Pups on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 6:32 PM


Sorry you were under the weather. Would have been nice to meet you. Hope you can make it at a later date. I know your schedule when school is back in would probably make it difficult. But, you are always welcome when ever you can make it.

-- Posted by Pups on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 6:34 PM

I know I would have enjoyed seeing everyone and of course the food, hopefully we will make it in soon enough to go next time. Dr appt went alright, could have been worse.

-- Posted by Aggiefan/Twiggy on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 6:35 PM

Ok well at least I can use my name instead of his, Thanks. I reeeallly don't like this picture though it doesn't do me justice.

-- Posted by Aggiefan/Twiggy on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 6:40 PM

Hey Melange,

Take a look at the add running at the top of the page. LMAO (sorry couldn't resist).


You could change his avitar to one that you wanted as well.

-- Posted by Pups on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 6:47 PM

I am thinking about it just not sure I want to go to that much trouble. Aggie is the one who is usually on here, so I will probably let it go for now.

-- Posted by Aggiefan/Twiggy on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 6:52 PM

LOL Mel good one

-- Posted by Aggiefan/Twiggy on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 6:54 PM


You don't have to be a milque-toast just because you were banned. Take it from one who knows. LOL

-- Posted by conservababe on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 7:21 PM


It says "Paid for by Yes April 8 Committe, D. Essner, Treasurer."

I believe they have to supply a list of donators if asked. But I could be wrong.

-- Posted by Pups on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 8:11 PM

I assume that is Danny Essner?

-- Posted by allen6177 on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 8:18 PM


I don't really know. Oh, btw, welcome back. You've been gone awhile.

-- Posted by Pups on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 8:20 PM

This is the wrong time to bring up a proposal for a tax increase while the economy is in the tank. I don't see this thing passing not with gas over $3.00 a gallon with food cost and health care blowing out the ceiling, very poor timing on behalf of the City Officials.

-- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 8:25 PM


Would he be the vice-president of Capaha Bank?

-- Posted by conservababe on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 8:28 PM

Night all.

-- Posted by Pups on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 11:32 PM





-- Posted by Brill on Sat, Mar 29, 2008, at 12:44 AM

the SURGE is working in Iraq!!!

It just isn't the surge of the war criminal scum of Bush, Cheney and Kagan that is working. The surge that is working in Iraq, is the surge of the Jaysh al-Mahdi militia.

An-Nasiriyah has been LIBERATED!!! Shia' Jaysh Al-Mahdi Militia are fighting occupation troops and their US Neocon stooge puppet government. Will Sunni's soon follow their lead and fight to liberate all of Iraq from the murderous occupation, and their Iraqi collaborationists?

"Jaysh al-Mahdi seizes control of an-Nasiriyah, most of southern Iraq, correspondents report, despite US-backed regime claims to the contrary."

"In a dispatch posted at 5:43pm Baghdad time Friday afternoon, the Yaqen News Agency reported that that the Jaysh al-Mahdi militia had deployed in downtown an-Nasiriyah on Friday, taking over the strategic city on the road between Baghdad and al-Basrah from retreating American-backed forces.

The Yaqen correspondent in an-Nasiriyah reported that Jaysh al-Mahdi militiamen could be seen carrying weapons and rocket launchers in the streets and they had complete control of the city.

The correspondent said that the anti-occupation Jaysh al-Mahdi also had taken control of the nearby town of ash-Shatrah, north of an-Nasiriyah and that the sound of gunfire and explosions had culminated.

The correspondent noted that the Iraqi regime has lost control of most of the regions of southern Iraq, despite claims by the American-backed government in Baghdad to the contrary."


"Bomb targets Iraqi regime National Guard patrol in Baghdad’s al-‘Amiriyah Friday.

In a dispatch posted at 3:15pm Baghdad time Friday afternoon, the Association of Muslim Scholars of Iraq (AMSI) reported that a bomb exploded by a patrol of Iraqi regime National Guard on al-Munazzamah Street in the west Baghdad district of al-‘Amiriyah on Friday.

Mortar shells blast into offices of Iraqi Vice President al-Hashimi in “Green Zone” Friday afternoon.

In a dispatch posted at 6:06pm Baghdad time Friday afternoon, the Yaqen News Agency reported that mortar shells had blasted into the “Green Zone” office of the Sunni sectarian Iraqi Vice-President Tariq al-Hashimi, killing one of his bodyguards and wounding six more of them.

Yaqen reported that the mortar shells slammed into the “ Green Zone” – including al-Hashimi’s office – after noon on Friday, when the pro-American official was not present. Explosions going off within the “Zone” could be heard in many parts of the Iraqi capital.

Tariq al-Hashimi is a leader of the Sunni sectarian Iraqi Islamic Party – an offshoot of the fundamentalist Muslim Brotherhood Organization that joined “Iraqi Governing Council” formed by US Proconsul L. Paul Bremer after the American invasion in 2003.

On 14 December 2006, the American newspaper USA Today reported that US President George W. Bush was backing Tariq al-Hashimi and his Sunni-sectarian parties in a bid to force Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki, to take action against the anti-occupation Jaysh al-Mahdi militia – a direction that has now culminated in al-Maliki’s current announced drive to “cleanse” Iraq of the Jaysh al-Mahdi on behalf of the US occupation forces."

"Fighting spreads to an-Nasiriyah on Friday, despite curfew. Fierce clashes erupt when regime forces try to open highway to al-Basrah."

"In a dispatch posted on its Arabic website at 4:12pm Friday afternoon Beijing time (11:12am in Baghdad), the Xinhua News Agency reported that fighting erupted in numerous parts of the city of an-Nasiriyah, 320km south of Baghdad, and the nearby towns of Suq ash-Shuyukh and ash-Shatrah, all in Dhi Qar Province, astride the vital supply line from Baghdad just northwest of al-Basrah Province.

Xinhua reported that hit and run attacks had been taking place in which armed men, believed to be affiliated with the anti-occupation Jaysh al-Mahdi militia, assault groups of Iraqi regime army troops and police and then disappear into the residential areas nearby.

In a dispatch posted at 10:50am Baghdad time Friday morning, the Yaqen News Agency reported a source in the Dhi Qar Provincial Police as saying that US helicopter gun ships were engaged in the attacks on the Jaysh al-Mahdi as well, carrying out air strikes in support of the Iraqi regime ground troops.

A source in the regime’s security forces told Xinhua that the fiercest fighting erupted when Special Forces of the US-backed Iraqi regime were attempting to clear the International Highway towards al-Basrah to facilitate supply to the regime’s forces in that city. Fighting broke out there and was still going on in the Suq ash-Shuyukh area, 30km south of an-Nasiriyah, as of the time of reporting.

Local authorities imposed a curfew in an-Nasiriyah beginning Thursday afternoon and it was still in effect on Friday when the fighting with the Jaysh al-Mahdi broke out.

In a dispatch posted at 6:30pm Beijing time (1:30pm in Baghdad), Xinhua reported that as of that hour, 15 people had been killed and 25 more wounded in fighting between US-backed regime troops and Jaysh al-Mahdi militiamen in an-Nasiriyah.

Xinhua reported a source in the an-Nasiriyah government police as saying that four of the dead were members of the anti-occupation Jaysh al-Mahdi militia, as are seven of the wounded."

"Jaysh al-Mahdi controls most streets in al-Basrah after four days of US-backed offensive against them. Casualty toll stood at 55 dead, over 160 wounded as of noon Thursday.

In a dispatch posted on its Arabic website at 3:23pm Friday afternoon Beijing time (10:23pm in Baghdad), the Xinhua News Agency reported the Health Directorate of al-Basrah Provincehad announced that as of that hour 55 people had died and more than 160 had been wounded, most of them civilians, in the US-backed drive to “cleanse” al-Basrah of the anti-occupation Jaysh al-Mahdi militia.

Xinhua reported the source as saying that the figure includes casualties in the military operations in the city of al-Basrah starting Tuesday night and until 12 noon Thursday.

Meanwhile, eyewitnesses said that Jaysh al-Mahdi militiamen controlled most streets in the city after nearly four days of an intensive regime offensive against them. The witnesses confirmed that clashes erupt from time to time between the regime’s security forces and the Jaysh al-Mahdi in various parts of the city, including the city center."

"Jaysh al-Mahdi bombards headquarters of Iraqi regime division midday Friday.

In a dispatch posted at 5:26pm Baghdad time Friday afternoon, the Yaqen News Agency reported that Jaysh al-Mahdi militiamen bombarded the headquarters of the Iraqi regime army’s 8th Division in ad-Diwaniyah on Friday."

"Local government administrator shot dead as fighting between US backed regime and anti-occupation Jaysh al-Mahdi militia breaks out in ad-Diwaniyah Friday.

In a dispatch posted at 2:40pm Baghdad time Friday afternoon, the Yaqen News Agency reported that armed men shot and killed Sa‘d ash-Shiblawi, the administrator of the Ghammas area in ad-Diwaniyah, 180km south of Baghdad, in an attack on the local administration building at noon Friday.

Yaqen reported Husayn al-Budayri of the ad-Diwaniyah police as saying that guards at the administration building joined the armed men in shooting the official who died while resisting the guards and attackers."

"Mortar barrage targets US Consulate in al-Hillah Friday morning.

In a dispatch posted at 11:25am Baghdad time Friday morning, the Yaqen News Agency reported that that the US Consulate in southern al-Hillah, 100km south of Baghdad came under mortar attack on Friday.

Yaqen reported a source in the Babil Province police as saying that the mortar rounds landed in various areas around the American Consulate. Three shells struck the Bab al-Mashhad area near the big Reformatory Prison in the city. Those shells caused no casualties, thought they damaged houses near the facility. As usual, the Americans made no announcement regarding the nature or extent of US casualties as a result of the shells that landed inside the US Consulate."

"US admits five American troops wounded in ambush in Khan Bani Sa‘d.

In a dispatch posted at 2:02pm Baghdad time Friday afternoon, the Yaqen News Agency reported that the US military’s Information Counselor announced that five American troops had been wounded in an attack on a US column in Diyala Province.

Yaqen reported ‘Abd al-Latif Rayyan as saying that fighters equipped with light arms and grenades ambushed a US patrol in the Khan Bani Sa‘d area, 40km northeast of Baghdad, wounding five of the American soldiers.

Meanwhile, a source in the Khan Bani Sa‘d police said that a bomb exploded by a US patrol in the Khan Bani Sa‘d area, after which the Americans cordoned off the area and imposed a curfew in the vicinity. The source said that no information on the nature or extent of US casualties in that attack was available."

-- Posted by Brill on Sat, Mar 29, 2008, at 1:03 AM

George W. Bush, will you please go now!

The time is now.

Just go.



I don't care how.

You can go by foot.

you can go by cow.

George W. Bush, will you please go now!

You can go on skates.

You can go on skis.

You can go in hat.


Please go...


Original written to Richard M. Nixon

by Art Buchwarld & Dr. Seuss

More photos of dead and severely wounded Iraqi children are here... http://www.endthiswar.org/enemy.htm

....for some, these photos will make them proud to be Amerikun. For others, they will see the horror of the war that they supported, and still support.

-- Posted by Brill on Sat, Mar 29, 2008, at 2:28 AM

Glad that Brill forgot to take his meds. Real nice avatar image lastnight. Trying to get a rise out of us? Trying to show us how this war in particular has a new type of violence?

I hope for quite a few things in this world. Lastnight, one of those hopes came to light. I hope, all the time, that the public will let people like you speak. So we can see what makes you tick. Not much there. Your a pretty shallow man Mike.

Go on. Keep up the good fight.

I truely pity any family that you have.

-- Posted by fajar154 on Sat, Mar 29, 2008, at 1:09 PM

Wish you'd stop wakin' him up so early in the morn! Or, maybe he never sleeps? I guess if I lived within range of someone like that, I probably wouldn't, either!

Good or bad, pro or con, at least shorten it up a little, so we can try to sort something out, OK? Thanks!

-- Posted by donknome-2 on Sat, Mar 29, 2008, at 1:54 PM

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