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Speak Out 3/26/08

Wednesday, March 26, 2008

Don't blame districts

I KNOW it's nitpicking. but the headline on the front page was wrong. It says, "School districts are cutting into students' vacation time." That's not correct. The school districts didn't cut into the vacation time. They set those days aside in case they were needed for bad weather. Mother Nature sent us all that ice, and Mother Nature sent all this water, not the school districts. Don't blame the school districts because the kids have to give up some vacation time.

Potholes repaired

I WANT to thank the city for being so prompt with repairing the potholes on Mount Auburn Road. I appreciate it, and I'm sure many others do. Thank you for the service.

Loud cars

WHAT ABOUT loud cars? Young punks are just as bad as the people with motor¿cycles who are going through midlife crisis. The loud cars are just as much of a hazard. At least motorcycle riders pay attention to the other drivers.

Bright fog lights

TO MOTORISTS on clear nights with your fog lights on: Fog lights are designed to flood light across the entire road in heavy fog, and they temporarily blind oncoming motorists on clear nights.

No on tax plan

DON'T GET your hopes up. The Cape Girardeau parks and storm-water tax proposal is dangerous. It would raise $25 million, of which only $3 million will go for storm water. That won't touch the problems of flooding. Part of this tax has no sunset. It will never end. The city doesn't properly fund the parks department. Please, don't vote for this. It won't help.

Kind gestures

MY CHILD was one of several who either didn't get anything or only got one or two things at the Easter egg hunt at Osage Community Centre on Saturday. There were two parents with their children who saw my son crying and shared with him. That was generous of you and your children. One of you gave him a bag of goldfish, which was funny, because that was the only thing he cared about getting that day. Thank you for being so generous. It meant a lot to him. Your kindness was appreciated.

Bent Creek cleanup

FOR CERTAIN people to have the perception that the Bent Creek area was cleaned up faster after the tornado because of where we lived is plain silly. Bent Creek was cleaned up quickly for several commonsense reasons. First, we live in a relatively new neighborhood, so we didn't have a large number of mature trees. Second, most of us paid to have a contractor come in and assist in the cleanup.

Take action on gas

LET'S TALK about something that is hurting all of us: gasoline prices. I know that you've all read about this in the papers and gotten e-mails about all of these remedies to resolve gas prices from all of the major suppliers. What we need to do is write to all of our elected officials and let them know that we're tired of this. My theory is that if they had to pay for gas like we do, something might get done. All of our elected officials have expense accounts along with a lot of other perks, so not only do we pay for gas in our vehicles, but also in their vehicles. We pay for theirs through our hard-earned tax dollars. I say let them know we're tired of it. Let's mandate that the oil companies build more refineries. Don't let them get away with this anymore. When an oil company posts record profits like they do, make them do something for the consumer. Let's do more research and development on alternative fuels for future use, but let's work on what we have now. Tell our Missouri elected officials, "No more."


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The documentary, CONSPIRACY THEORY, featuring Mel Gibson, will air THURSDAY night at 8:00pm on LIFETIME. In Cape and Jackson, this excellent movie will be seen on Charter Cable channel 49

-- Posted by Brill on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 7:13 AM

"Take action on gas"

What if we were to stop buying gas from EXXON stations? If we refused to buy gas from EXXON supplied stations, how long would it take before EXXON would lower prices at the pump in order to attract business to make up for an EXXON boycott?

If EXXON lowered prices, then would not other oil companies follow suit, in order to protect their share of market?

-- Posted by Brill on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 7:31 AM

What NO REPUBLICAN, nor, news reporter had the balls to ask John Ashcroft when he spoke recently at the Repbulican Lincoln Day dinner, in Cape Girardeau.

If I hadn't had to wash my hair, and rinse out my socks and boxers that Saturday night, I might have gone to the Lincoln Days Republican Love-Fest in Cape Girardeau.

Of course, I would have gone, only if I could have asked John Ashcroft one question. It would be a simple question, that even he could answer, if he had a shred of honesty left in him, which we all know that he does not.

My question would have been.

ME

"Mr. Ashcroft, in March of 2001, well respected, mob busting attorney, David Schippers began to call you office at the Department of Justice in Washington, D.C. Why didn't you return any of his multitude of calls?"

ASHCROFT

" I don't recall an attorney by the name of David Schippers."

ME

"David Schippers is the attorney that you Republicans hired to impeach President Bill Clinton. He did that. You do recall him now do you not? He says that he knows you quite well."

ASHCROFT

"Why would Mr. Schippers be calling me?

ME

"In March of 2001, Mr. Schippers, who is well respected by the FBI, began to receive a parade of FBI agents to his door in Chicago."

ASCHROFT

"So, how does that affect me?"

ME

"The FBI Agents, many from the New York City area, came to Mr. Schippers office with details information that they were picking up on a planned terrorist attack upon New York City."

ASHCROFT

"The agents should have gone to their superiors and that information would have come up to me through the chain of command."

ME

"They did go to their superiors in the NYC area, and when they did, they all were told to 'Shut up and Go Away.' So, they went to a man whom they trusted, who had an outstanding record of busting the mob, and who had impeached the previous president. They sought out Mr. David Schippers. Mr. Schippers then began to call you in Washington."

ASHCROFT

"I do not recall having received a call from Mr. Schippers. No, I do not recall."

ME

"Mr. Schippers called on numerous occasions, certain that you, knowing his reputation would take his call. In fact, on at least one occasion, he told your staff about the nature of the call, pending attacks in New York City, and they assured him that you would immediately return his call."

ASHCROFT

" I do not recall."

ME

"Mr. Ashcroft, after the September 11th attacks, Mr. Schippers called several more times, yet, you failed to return his calls and to gather his information."

ASCROFT

"I do not recall."

ME

"Mr. Ashcroft, you did not seek his information about pending attacks upon the US, prior to the attacks, nor, did you contact Mr. Schippers, a well respected attorney and confidant of the FBI agents who had that information, even after the attacks. However, when Mr. Schippers appeared on a national radio talk show, gave the account outlined here, and, under persuasion to talk, did state that he felt that persons in, or, close to the US Government did plan and execute the attacks of September 11th, your office did contact Mr. Schippers and warned him that he should never discuss the topic in public again, isn't that so?

ASHCROFT

"NO COMMENT!"

There is more evidence, albiet somewhat circumstantial, that a conspiracy of people in and close to the US government, planned and carried out 9/11, than there is that points to Osama Bin Laden.

-- Posted by Brill on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 7:44 AM

Me'lange—

Is your brother still on active duty and 30% disabled? Please explain!

-- Posted by RocketSurgeon on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 8:07 AM

come on, Mike you sound retarded get over it. Melange, Brill

-- Posted by Wilsonite on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 8:14 AM

**note to Who me**

Last night you said,

"66

Making truck only lane would either eat up a lane of traffic (making car congestion even worse) or forcing those states to spend millions or billions? ... You will pay for the increased freight costs. Everything moves on a truck sooner or later. Most people don't realize part of the higher food prices are transportation costs.

I have a good inside for this information. Slow them down pay more. Higher fuel pay more. Raise road use tax pay more. All cost are paid be the consumer. The companies won't eat it."

BINGO! You proved my point about the Fuel costs at the pump ruining our economy! Higher prices at the pump, ultimately everything will go up in price. Thank you for that!

Pups,

I missed the DB Cooper story on KFVS, but I read something about it on the AP news. I Must be psychic! LOL

-- Posted by Proud_Democrat on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 8:44 AM

BRILL-

I feel sorry for you - you must be a very frustrated little man. Not knowing you, but having read your dribble- I am willing to bet you must be one of those who drive a certain vehicle to make up for all of your short comings. All I can say is this column use to be a joy to read until you started writing pages of rantings. PLEASE find some Prozac and get on with your life. Or find ourself a good woman to get occupied with along with some Viagra - because man you need it.

-- Posted by Skeptic1 on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 9:17 AM

Technology is a good thing; however, maybe too good. I don't see the advantage of all of America having their *ssholes puckered up waiting to hear if their loved ones were the four fatalaties that day, out of 160,000 in-country. A good thing for the manufacturer of TUMS maybe, but the country is unnecessarily suffering a collective ulcer watching the war unfold.

My opinion is that we have TOO MUCH media interference, and successes and failures aren't being judged accurately. We all know that perspectives are blurred by the heat and passion of the moment. I truly believe we would never have won World War II if we had the kind of uncensored media intrusion we have now, the US wouldn't have had the stomach to stay the course.

I'm sure there are others who disagree . . .

-- Posted by yasgurfarm on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 9:28 AM

Gas prices

Maybe if we call our congress people. Or maybe if we stop buying gas from EXXON. Maybe we should have a "gas out" day and no one in the country buy gas that day.

Maybe we need more idiotic ideas. Does anyone think the local congress person can do something about the price of gas? If we don't buy gas from EXXON theywill simply sell any surplus overseas. This is a world wide market folks. Don't expect miracles from the government. Fact is we all will need to plan a little better and drive a lot less.

-- Posted by SWBG on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 9:45 AM

Y

I was amazed, too, when I learned that troops were allowed to phone home and send email messages in Desert Storm.

I believe the war should be reported but only by embedded reporters as they would have to adher to strict guidlines.

-- Posted by conservababe on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 9:55 AM

mel,

You are right it is a double edged sword. Unfortunately a little information can casue more anxiety than no information.

-- Posted by SWBG on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 10:13 AM

Found this on the KFVS web site.

Associated Press - March 26, 2008 9:04 AM ET

CAPE GIRARDEAU, Mo. (AP) - A company that at one time planned to build an ethanol production plant in Cape Girardeau now will file for bankruptcy.

Ethanex Energy Inc. was unable to gain interim financing. At one time, Ethanex planned a production facility at the SEMO Port Authority.

Ethanol was all the rage a year ago, but other firms are also struggling now. In Sikeston, Bootheel Agri-Energy LLC was recently forced to return cash invested in its proposed plant.

Bob Smallwood is president of SEMO Milling, a corn milling plant that formed a partnership with Ethanex. Smallwood says the profit margin on ethanol has shrunk to about one-third the amount of a year ago due to high corn prices and falling ethanol prices.

-- Posted by SWBG on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 10:27 AM

Fog Lights.....kinda reminds me of the people that drive around with their brights on and have no idea. Or what about the halogen lights? Those lights seem pretty bright to me.

-- Posted by lovemyfamily on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 10:43 AM

For all of you deriding Brill's Ashcroft comments, you all are just misinformed. Everything he said here is TRUE. Schippers contacted Ashcroft's office several times leading up to 9/11 and was quoted publically saying as much BEFORE 9/11.

Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Educate yourself!

-- Posted by MoxFulder on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 10:49 AM

McLange

Did I say I had a problem with troops calling and e-mailing home? I was just amazed, along with older vets, that it could be done. I remember one WWII vet remarking that it was sure a step up from v-mail.

But I do think reporters should be embedded.

-- Posted by conservababe on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 11:06 AM

MoxFulder,

The gub'ment gets thousands of threats a day. Most are not specific, and are based on questionable sources. If Ashcroft did have information about a Manhattan threat, what was Ashcroft to do? Shut down the city of New York for three months? Stop all planes, trains and automobiles for three months? That wouldn't have done any good. These muslim fanatics hopped on planes in Newark, Boston and Washington DC, none of them bound for New York.

THINK, PEOPLE!

-- Posted by yasgurfarm on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 11:23 AM

Me'Lange: You said "Can't even imagine the anxiety families endured during previous wars without the technology we have today!"

We had mail. How the families back home felt, I wouldn't know, but were probably happy to receive a letter. I think, back then war became such a part of life that people took it in stride. World War Two was followed 7 years later by the Korean War which was followed 10 years later by the Vietnam War. Millions served and 100's thousands were killed. Many of the sons of WWII served in Vietnam.

-- Posted by BCStoned on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 12:02 PM

Yes, the government gets plenty of 'threats' a day, but if you have FBI agents that have evidence, followed the money, know where the people are to go get them...and your superiors tell you to shut up, then there is a HUGE problem.

If the crazy cat lady down the street calls in a possible threat , maybe the Attorney General doesn't need to know, but when dozens of FBI agents holding proof in their hands are ignored, then yeah, maybe the Attorney General does need to know then.

Mohammad Atta, who was all over the watch lists and was known as a terrorist left the US to attend a 'terrorist convention' for lack of a better term and was denied entrance when he came back. The customs guys were ordered to allow them back in the country as the 'terrorist designation' was their cover by the CIA.

Doesn't sound like something we should have ignored does it?

-- Posted by MoxFulder on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 12:11 PM

Mox,

Hindsight is 20/20. Certainly our vigilance toward terrorism pre-911 is different than it is now.

Is there some credible evidence to suggest Ashcroft could have acted differently? Sure! Would it have made a difference? I do not know. There are many people, people with credibility, saying that it could have. I don't know.

However I am not big on revisionist history. I believe you have to look through the eyes of what you knew then and what the circumstances were that formed your opinion at that time.

-- Posted by SWBG on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 12:23 PM

hello everyone, wow quite a few subjects today. Aggiefan is on the road, I am staying home this week. How did everyone do with all the rain and flooding? I noticed the sub-division behind us was flooded quite a bit even though it was supposedly built up at least 2 feet. There was water up to some owners driveway.

Twiggy

-- Posted by Aggiefan/Twiggy on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 12:25 PM

Mox

You realize that Mike just had a whole conversation with himself right? This is a conversation he probably goes over in front of a mirror daily. The other day his "type writter ribbon was running low on ink". Mox no disrespect intended but the guy has lost touch. I'm not so sure his ribbon didn't "run out of ink" long ago. His posts used to have at least some grasp even if they were reaching. Now he is just gone. Here in a while he will make some threat or something and will get banned again. I started posting because my little brother wanted to get me "more involved" in the community. He doesn't think I get out enough. Mike is the best reason I know for not being engaged in a public forum. You can't engage him in rational thought. It just doesn't work anymore.

-- Posted by leviwarfield on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 12:27 PM

Me'Lange: I should have been more speciffic on the deaths and inguries during those conflicts out of respect to those that served. Just counting the military deaths of those who served in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam and no other conflicts during that time amounted to 520,771 killed and 864,466 wounded. Almost every family was affected, and I'm sure there was great relief in getting a letter from their son or daughter that served.

-- Posted by BCStoned on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 12:33 PM

Mox

Remember that at the time there was a wall created by the Clinton administration between the FBI and the CIA.

-- Posted by conservababe on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 12:34 PM

Well, I have to 10 meg from Charter Cable now, I'm kicking *** and taking names.

-- Posted by Proud_Democrat on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 1:13 PM

There is always an excuse for government failures. Blaming the party that ruled before yours has always been there. But as long as we make excuses, there will always be idiotic failures in government.

We are well on our way with the welfare/warfare state into the future of "Idiocracy". Excuse is the fuel driving this nation toward that goal.

-- Posted by BCStoned on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 1:54 PM

Very boring in here today.Just more conspiracy theorist telling us that the Administration perpetrated

the events on 9/11.Oh and don't forget to watch Mel Gibson starring in "Conspiracy Theory".Seen it once not worth seeing again!Yep and Lyndon Johnson had Kennedy killed and the Mob hired Sirhan to kill Bobby.

Yep,Blah blah blah Ballou !

-- Posted by GREYWOLF on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 2:19 PM

Really slow in here today with the exception of the resident crazy going at it again. A Brill by any other name would be oh I dunno MJB maybe????

-- Posted by NickeyB63780 on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 3:12 PM

GreyWolf

If you're bored you can always watch "Rules of Engagement". (Waco) Brill left the links for part I and II on the forum yesterday. I had watched all of the Congressional hearings and devoured every morsel of news during and after the massacre. But I had never seen this documentary and I enjoyed it very much. It's not a conspiratory theory but a true documentary with footage of the hearings, press conferences, sworn statements, video made by victims on the recorder given to them by FBI, audio of conversations between Koresh and authorities, videos of media coverage throughout the seige and commentary from the various people involved. No where is it enacted.

-- Posted by conservababe on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 3:32 PM

After reading Babe's comment I came across this - thought Aggiefan would like it too.

How the Bush Administration Changes a Light Bulb

How many members of the Bush administration does it take to change a light bulb?

1. One to deny that a light bulb needs to be changed;

2. One to attack the patriotism of anyone who says the light bulb needs to be changed;

3. One to blame Clinton for burning out the light bulb;

4. One to arrange the invasion of a country rumored to have a secret stockpile of light bulbs;

5. One to give a billion dollar no-bid contract to Halliburton for the new light bulb;

6. One to arrange a photograph of Bush, dressed as a janitor, standing on a step ladder under the banner: Light Bulb Change Accomplished;

7. One administration insider to resign and write a book documenting in detail how Bush was literally in the dark;

8. One to viciously smear #7;

9. One surrogate to campaign on TV and at rallies on how George Bush has had a strong light-bulb-changing policy all along;

10. And finally one to confuse Americans about the difference between screwing a light bulb and screwing the country.

-- Posted by DickCheney on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 5:08 PM

Conservababe, you realize that there are plenty of documentaries just like the great one you just watched about Waco that spell out the '9/11 conspiracy theories' just as well right? Just as there are expert witnesses, photographic evidence and Congressional testimony that showed what went wrong with Waco there are the same to back up 9/11 truth.

I would also like to point out that to blame the Bush presidency for 9/11 is incorrect. The ongoing plans and the building of atmosphere for all this to come to fruition is easy to follow back to Carter's administration, even further if you really connect the dots(Like Mossadeq's assasination in 1953.) Carter, Reagan, Bush Sr, Clinton, Bush Jr... it is bigger than them. The majority of vitriol for Bush W is directly related to his policies and illegal activites that he undertook after 9/11 'to protect us.'

-- Posted by MoxFulder on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 5:11 PM

Babe,

Got a question for you because I don't have time to research it right now.

Were the heads of the FBI, CIA, and BAFTA changed between the administrations of the first President Bush and President Clinton?

-- Posted by Pups on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 5:27 PM

Babe,

Frankly I do remember the fiasco in Waco!I also remember that fool who claimed to be Jesus

and who had his way with woman and children!!

Yep I am comfortable with his outcome!As for the

Moms and Dads,its obvious they had no common sense

either.They could have left at anytime RIGHT!

Please tell me if Iam wrong.Why were they so well

armed if they were a group of Christians?Lets face it,

the entire episode could have been avoided but hind sight is 20/20 isn't it.

-- Posted by GREYWOLF on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 5:28 PM

By the way Babe,

That Jesus wanna be could have surrendered to the Authorities at anytime before all those innocent

people who were taken in by his CULT were shot or

burned up.Yes,the entire situation stunk from the get go,but he could have ended it at any time and you know it and so DID HE!I blame him for everything that happened over those long messed up days at Waco,Tx.

-- Posted by GREYWOLF on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 5:35 PM

Greywolf,

If I read you correctly, you are totally ok with people slaughtering people if their religion seems kooky to you?

The whole thing could have easily read Jehovah's Witnesses slaughtered or Mormon's slaughtered etc...

They were not a 'cult' they were a well-established sect of Christianity. They did posses weapons, many of which were inventory to sell at gun shows as that was a source of money for the group. The local sheriff went to their property on occasions to shoot at their range. Despite what the media (at the behest of the FBI, BATF and the Clinton administration) fed you, the bottom line is that our government killed those people, including those kids.

-- Posted by MoxFulder on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 5:37 PM

Me'Lange;

A hearing disability for personnel in the military is not that uncommon. Despite safety precautions, noise from firing weapons, operating vehicles, explosive detonations, etc takes its toll. Soldiers in combat are especially susceptible - most do not wear any type of hearing protection in combat because it makes it more difficult to hear what is going on. They are at higher risk of damage to their hearing from weapons fire, mortars, IED's and such.

Soldiers are generally given a periodic hearing test. Once they begin to have a documented loss, they are profiled and are SUPPOSED to have a hearing exam annually. The VA classifies hearing loss as a service-related disability if there was no hearing loss prior to enlistment, or if it has been significantly worsened during term of service. So much hearing loss equals a certain percentage of disability, and 30% hearing disability really isn't that much hearing loss. Most is probably in the high-frequency ranges. As for the TB - hopefully he completed his treatments when he was diagnosed. Yep, he will always test positive, but that does not necessarily mean he has an active case of TB. The PPD test indicates a specific minimum level of exposure, but that does not mean you have the disease. A chest xray is required for that diagnosis. But, those antibodies do stay in your system eternally. That's why he should never get another PPD test. He should get annual x-rays and do any follow-up antibiotic treatments if required, because the disease can become active again later. Have also seen people test positive and never manifest the disease, and have clear chest x-rays forever. A TB diagnosis is also good for some VA disability, depending on the severity of the disease and results of long term follow-ups. And, as a Veteran, he will be able to get his hearing tested and should be able to get his chest x-rays and any follow-up treatments through the VA for the rest of his life. Two tours in Iraq, he's earned the right.

Hope he makes it home safely.

-- Posted by LittleMac on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 5:42 PM

Mox,

Its obvious you did not read my post for if you had you wouldn't be trying to put words in my mouth!That Jesus freak was a coward and he alone caused the deaths of his followers.Where in my words did you read that I want all cults religious or not murdered?

-- Posted by GREYWOLF on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 5:42 PM

Frankly mox,

it seems as if you might consider the Mormons and the Wittnesses a cult!By your own words mind you!

-- Posted by GREYWOLF on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 5:44 PM

Babe,

Sorry BATF,,,, BAFTA is actually the English Oscar,,, sorry

-- Posted by Pups on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 5:44 PM

William Sessions, FBI director appointed by Reagan was fired by Janet Reno right after taking office. (Ruby Ridge happened on his watch)

Louis Freeh was appointed in 1992 and went through the Waco time period. He resigned in June of 2001 (and later wrote a book about the problems with the 9/11 Commission's report and how evidence and warning was mishandled during Clinton's and early Bush reign)

Current FBI director Robert Mueller was sworn in one week before 9/11 and is still in that office.

There's some of what you requested

-- Posted by MoxFulder on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 5:51 PM

You mis-understand me. I certainly do not think Jehovah's Witnesses nor Mormons are any more of a cult than Christians. I have some JW friends and they are some of the finest people you will ever meet.

What I am trying to point out is that one man's cult is another's religion. The Branch-Davidian sect was already well established by the time the Waco incident started. They are a branch of Christianity. They were no more a cult than either of the other two.

You were saying that 'those CULTISTS got what they deserved!'

Is it any more outrageous than the Hagee fellow writing a book saying 'Jesus was not the Messiah' and continuing to lead a (large) Christian church? I may be an Atheist, but I am pretty sure that the whole Jesus is Messiah part is kind of a basic principal that can't be 'interpreted' differently and still remain Christian.

-- Posted by MoxFulder on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 5:57 PM

Before you all go 'sigh, Hagee didn't say that'...here he is in a commercial pushing his book that says exactly that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8khCJTDD...

-- Posted by MoxFulder on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 6:00 PM

Mox,

here is the definition of a Cult just for you.Cult typically refers to a cohesive social group devoted to beliefs or practices that the surrounding culture considers outside the mainstream, with a notably positive or negative popular perception.

So yes,his little group of believers was indeed by definition a CULT.

Now!what does this have to do with the fact that he was a child molestor and rapist!Ive listen to the

accounts from followers that left!I am not loosing sleep because he is gone!I do however,think that he takes all the blame for the deaths of those Moms dads and kids!And you know Iam right.He was a coward and died like one.Just my opinion mind you!

-- Posted by GREYWOLF on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 6:11 PM

MoxFulder,

Thanks, so I guess two of the three men in charge were appointed before Clinton, so how is their decission making the fault of Clinton, when Bush 1 or Reagan appointed them. Waco started if I'm correct in Feb of 1993. Clinton was sworn in Jan. of 1993. Clinton is to blame for Waco. George Bush 11 was sworn in Jan 2001 but terrorist attacks happened Sept of 2001 and Clinton is still to blame for that. Just trying to keep score on the Clinton Blame Game.

-- Posted by Pups on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 6:12 PM

The BATF raid happened on GH Bush's watch, the FBI raid happened on Bill Clinton's watch. Now to the specifics of whether David's followers were a cult or not, their religion was Christian. I have never before heard Christianity called a cult. How one practices his religion does not make it a cult.

The first shots at the scene were fired by BATF agents when they shot the dogs. The inspection on whether BATF fired through the front door was impossible to find out because the FBI wouldn't allow the doors shown as evidence. When the BATF fired the first shots, even if they just shot the dogs, they initiated the violence giving the Davidians the right under natural law to fire back because they thought their lives were in danger.

Later, when the FBI took over, some of those who tried to leave through the back field were shot. This act eliminated surrendering because no one inside knew whether they would be shot or not if they did surrender.

Just my opinion as an atheist.

-- Posted by BCStoned on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 6:37 PM

Mox

I'll give you that we knew even twenty years ago our next enemy would be muslims and no appeasement could erase that fact. I remember the morning of 9/11. I was on FreeRepublic and one of the first posts said "its's Bin Laden". I watched the 9/11 hearings and news the same as always and came away with no facts that would point to President Bush planning or being warned of the attack.

-- Posted by conservababe on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 6:43 PM

Old-codger,

Perhaps you did not read the definition of "Cult"

The dividians used Christianity as an excuse!Certainly

not your mainstream Christian Church Huh!Quit defending

this extremist who called himself Jesus.Quit defending

a sexual pervert who armed himself to the teeth!

Frankly the Waco wacko is dead and in hell its a crying shame there are woman and men who would believe a lunatic like David K. and end up loosing their lives.

-- Posted by GREYWOLF on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 6:55 PM

Who Me?,

Totally agree, not much I can do about the cost of gas. And since I have to drive to work (ok choose to drive to work) I must pay what they ask. See, you and I can agree. lol

-- Posted by Pups on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 6:59 PM

GREYWOLF: I respect your opinion but there was no evidence that David was a child molester or rapist, todate. Of course that would have nothing to do with the BATF. The BATF was there to search the property for parts to make semi- automatics into automatics weapons. Seems David was foolish enough to order parts through the mail. That was the reason the search warrent was issued.

-- Posted by BCStoned on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 7:15 PM

Since reading the Speak Out posts for several days now, I have become aware of many things I did not realize before and realize facts have nothing to do with these things I've learned: Everything good has come from the Republican Party (that wonderful Grand Old Party, especially since daddy and sonny boy Bush came on the scene. Everything bad has come from the Democrats. I now realize Bill Clinton is responsible for the tragic events at Pearl Harbor. (Never mind that President Clinton hadn't been born, but what's that got to do with it?) Aware of my previous stupidity and wanton ways, I am now an intellectual card-carrying conservative.

-- Posted by iago1 on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 7:17 PM

GreyWolf

The Davidians broke with the Seventh Day Adventists in the 1930's (Waco was only the largest of settlements) and believed a prophet would unravel the mystery of the Seven Seals mentioned in the Old Testament and they believed that David Koresh was that prophet, but not Jesus.

The most compelling words were spoken by the local Sheriff. He related that he had called in the social services a number of times because of complaints from outside family members. No offenses were ever found because the age of consent to marry was/is fourteen years old in Texas, therefore consentual sex was not considered statuatory rape in the matter of Koresh's 'wives'. He also said that the matter of gun ownership in Texas is not considered 'stockpiling' as the law allows any number of guns, especially gun dealers. He said that the Davidians were not a secretive nor cloistered group and he had met many people from all races and international countries. The members were not coerced to remain and were free to leave the group any time.

But the most profound statement he made was ask why the BATF and FBI introduced the subject of child abuse when the rubber stamped warrant was concerned with possible arms violations, ONLY. The BATF and FBI knew they were in deep **** over this farce and tried to throw out anything that would justify to the willing press and dem congressmen that the burning to death of men, women and children was necessary.

-- Posted by conservababe on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 7:26 PM

iago1,

LMAO, I might have to follow your example, but not just yet.

-- Posted by Pups on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 7:27 PM

conservababe,

To quote my registered christian conservative republican neice, "Whatever!!"

-- Posted by Pups on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 7:34 PM

iago1

you said "Since reading the Speak Out posts for several days now, I have become aware of many things I did not realize before and realize facts have nothing to do with these things I've learned."

If you can admit this then you are well on your way to becoming a Conservative. LOL

-- Posted by conservababe on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 7:35 PM

My 19 month old grandson went and a grown woman pushed him down and all he got was a can of soda. But like we said we got a picture of him grabbing it at his first easter egg hunt

-- Posted by cmf2002 on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 7:39 PM

Babe,

You stated, "The BATF and FBI knew they were in deep **** over this farce and tried to throw out anything that would justify to the willing press and dem congressmen that the burning to death of men, women and children was necessary."

So I guess Republicans don't take responsibility for their actions, they lie just like everyone else. Imagine that, human after all, who would have thought.

-- Posted by Pups on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 7:55 PM

Pups

If you had watched every minute of the Congressional hearings of Waco, you would have seen that it was a partisan one in which dems pointed fingers and made pompous assumptions while the republicans asked questions. That is just the truth, bub.

-- Posted by conservababe on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 8:10 PM

Babe,

Those ultimatley responsible for their departments actions were appointed by Republican Presidents and YOU stated they were covering their ****s. But you still blame the Dems for it. Just trying to figure out your logic.

-- Posted by Pups on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 8:17 PM

Who Me

Thank you for "Now I am mad at the president." It's nice to just once in a while have a different view on things...

-- Posted by gurusmom on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 8:32 PM

Pups

What ARE you talking about, please? The only people appointed to office were appointed by President Clinton in the Waco massacre.

-- Posted by conservababe on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 8:38 PM

Babe,

William Sessions was the FBI director for Ruby Ridge and Waco. He was appointed by Ronald Reagan in 1987 and fired by Clinton in 1993 after Waco.

-- Posted by Pups on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 8:41 PM

Who Me and GurusMom

Now I am mad at the president - proved false - check out:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/...

-- Posted by DickCheney on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 8:44 PM

Sorry - here is the rest of the address

/politics/clintons/enron.asp

-- Posted by DickCheney on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 8:48 PM

It is the duty of all party loyalists to defend their party. No matter how wrong the party is, no matter how many lies, thefts, and murders it commits, it must be defended at all times. This is what being a good American is all about.

-- Posted by BCStoned on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 8:49 PM

Pups

Janet Reno controlled the FBI at Waco. She called them in after she was sworn in and was a puppet of the Clintons. And Treasury Secretary, Lloyd Benson,was in charge of the cover-up of the BATF's actions.

-- Posted by conservababe on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 9:00 PM

Old_Codger,

I'm trying not to be just a party loyalist. Well I hope I'm not. I know there are plenty of Dems as well as Reps that are lacking in the ethical and moral areas.

-- Posted by Pups on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 9:01 PM

Old_Codger - I feel spanked.

-- Posted by DickCheney on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 9:04 PM

Babe,

My source could be wrong, but I found the following and no where in it does it say the Director of the FBI answers to the Attorney General. It says they answer to the President.

"FBI Directors are appointed by the President of the United States. They must be confirmed by the United States Senate and serve ten-year terms. J. Edgar Hoover, appointed by Calvin Coolidge in 1924, was by far the longest-serving FBI Director, serving until his death in 1972. In 1968, Congress passed legislation as part of the Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act Pub.L. 90-351, June 19, 1968, 82 Stat. 197 that specified a 10-year term limit for future FBI Directors, as well as requiring Senate confirmation of appointees. As the incumbent, this legislation did not apply to Hoover, only to his successors. The current FBI Director is Robert Mueller, who was appointed in 2001 by George W. Bush.

The FBI director is responsible for the day-to-day operations at the FBI. Along with his deputies, the director makes sure cases and operations are handled correctly. The director also is in charge of making sure the leadership in any one of the FBI field offices are manned with qualified agents. Before the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act was passed in the wake of the September 11, 2001 attacks, the FBI director would brief the President of the United States on any issues that arise from within the FBI. Since then, the director now reports to the Director of National Intelligence (DNI) who in turn reports to the President."

-- Posted by Pups on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 9:09 PM

Babe,

My civics classes were a long time ago, but how does the Treasury Secretary effect or protect BATF?? I'm not sure what he has to do with it, other then approving or denying funding to BATF? Not being a smarta*s, and willing to admit I don't know alot about some things, but I'm trying to learn.

-- Posted by Pups on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 9:32 PM

Melange,

Sometimes a debate, like a family fued, goes on for so long that no one remembers why it started. LOL j/k

-- Posted by Pups on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 9:47 PM

MeLange

Oh, I really don't know why it is so important to remember that innocent people were burned to ashes by their own government. Let's just move on to more important things, shall we?

-- Posted by conservababe on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 9:54 PM

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ok, I feel better now. LOL

-- Posted by Pups on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 9:57 PM

I believe reporters in war zones are a nuisance.

And I don't believe in reporters accompanying troops unless they are required to have a weapon and participate. Otherwise, they are nothing but a liability to their escorts.

I have no problem with troops giving opinions or answering questions. I mean media based reporters to be clear.

DickCheney---

You aren't allowed to feel spanked...I haven't even been talking today....*shakes her whip*

-- Posted by Superbethie on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 10:03 PM

Melange,

I don't know how it did that. LOL But yeah, running screaming out of a room can be theraputic (sp) lol

-- Posted by Pups on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 10:05 PM

Hi Bethie,

And when Cheney said that about being spanked I immediately thought of you. Mmmmm wonder why that is??? lol How are you feeling? Oh, and does a self appointed Godfather get to suggest more music for Bebe???

-- Posted by Pups on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 10:07 PM

Pupslover Please lighten up on conservababe about WACO

Please be kind to conservababe. I understand what you mean about both parties and all having done bad things, but if you read all of conservababes posts today, I think that you will understand that she has really had an eye opener.

She did watch WACO: THE RULES OF ENGAGEMENT on the links that I posted Tuesday. Seeing this academy award nominated documentary was my wake up call as well. I do not know what level conservababe has been in her thinking in the past, but, if I read her first post right, seeing this documentary did open another door for her and she is dealing with what she saw and heard in the documentary.

I really enjoyed the congressional hearings. You began to see the feds dance, and dance, trying to avoid answering direct questions. I had not seen that footage before. When the lead agent at Waco, or, maybe the had of the BATF said, in response to a Congressman's question, "THE DAYS OF AN AGENT KNOCKING ON A DOOR WITH A SEARCH WARRANT IN HAND, ARE OVER," I nearly crapped my pants. I had never heard a fed be so blunt, so arroagant, so full of hubris and loathing for the American people and our Constitution. He was, of course, referring to our protections under the 4th Amendment to the US Constititon, about search and seizure. They felt that they could saddle up in the back of a cattle trailer, ride out to the church, go to the back of the church kill their pet dog, a Malamaute, I think, and her puppies and then begin doing what they thought that a gestapo-ized fed agency could do.

I have no doubt, that while there are many good federal agents, like those who went to Schippers about with their information on the Manhattan attacks, that there are many more who take a daily p*ss on the US Constitution and love doing it.

Conservababe did take the time to watch the award winning, Oscar nominated documentary, WACO: RULES OF ENGAGEMENT. I believe that she deserves dozens of roses, and lots of laruels for doing so. There are so many here and in this country who would not watch, listen, or, read anyting, if they even thought that it might challenge one of their long cherished misconceptions.

MoxFulder did encourage conservababe to check out some documentaries on 9/11. Someday, she may wish to see the documentary of a Kansas City Iraq War vet who is parilized from the nipples down. It is her choice to make, but, I do applaud her decision to see the Waco documentary. Here is BODY OF WAR featuring the KC Iraq War vet.

The main thing is that while she does disagree with me on most of my positions, she was open enough to see that excellent documentary. Kudos, conservababe.

WACO THE RULES OF ENGAGEMENT part one http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...

WACO THE RULES OF ENGAGEMENT part two

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...

BODY OF WAR (KC war vet)

"Body of War: New Doc Tells the Story of a Paralyzed Iraq War Veteran Coming to Terms with Disability and Speaking Out Against War"

"Tomas Young, Iraq war veteran and the main subject of the documentary Body of War. On April 4, 2004, his fifth day in Iraq, Young’s unit came under fire in the Sadr City neighborhood of Baghdad. Young was left paralyzed, never to walk again. Released from medical care three months later, Young returned home to become an active member in Iraq Veterans Against the War."

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/3/25/bo...

-- Posted by Brill on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 10:09 PM

Hey Babe,

Need a satalite dish installed??????? j/k

And I know that was mean and uncalled for, for those that understand the reference. I appologize, but sometime it feels good to be bad. I'll regret it later, just my character flaw.

-- Posted by Pups on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 10:09 PM

Brill,

Conservababe needs no one to take it easy on her. She has time and again proved she can take care of herself when she so chooses. And I have no doubt I have caused her much frustration (or maybe just shaking of her head) with my outlook, statements, arguments, humor and choice of party. LOL

-- Posted by Pups on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 10:16 PM

The Branch Davidians are a splinter group of the Seventh Day Adventists. They were formed in the 1930's, long before Koresh was even born. The Davidians would be like Missionary Baptists, or, Freewill, General Baptists; still Baptists, but not Southern Baptists. The Davidians were Seventh Day Adventists, but they may have had some tenets that were different that the original Seventh Day Adventist church.

Someone, perhaps, Mox, or, Dick Cheney, noted that while some may have considered their beliefs, "kooky," mostly because they do not understand what the Davidians believed; we do not normally go around killing people with different religious beliefs than our own. However, I am surprised at the number of people who thought that they "got what they deserved," following the massacre by feds at Waco.

These people weren't harming anyone. They were not a cult, as some of the dullards here have stated. They were different, but, while I may not agree with their beliefs, I respect their right to believe as they wish. It is no ones business but their own. I may consider one of the posters who called them a cult, a burned out doper from the 60's, but I defend his right to be one. It is not my business.

The most striking footage is of the sheriff, as conservababe noted.

-- Posted by Brill on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 10:34 PM

Pups--

Hehe..I'm so flattered you thought of me..*grinz*

ahh yes...you can be the Godfather. *imagines Pups speaking in a husky italian accent*

and as a Godfather...you can suggest anything you want..you have "friends" to enforce it. LOL

-- Posted by Superbethie on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 10:34 PM

Bethie,

Do German's have "Godfather" images??? Might give me something else so research. lol And since I'm usually on here, not sure how many 'friends' I have. haha

Just curious if Bebe would like Daughtry? May not be the same 'rock' level as say KISS, but I do enjoy his/their music. Even saw him at the Showme Center.

-- Posted by Pups on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 10:44 PM

Waco was no different than Jonestown. Except government intervened. If LEO comes to my house I do not take up arms against them. Do that and history dictates you will lose.

Good law abiding citizens those Branch Davidian's? Perhaps some. Truely tragic what happened. Could perhaps been handeled differently on all sides. David K. was primarily at fault.

BTW I do not swallow all the kool-aide. I do not think Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone.

-- Posted by SWBG on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 10:47 PM

ROFL..

heck..some of the folks off here would be pretty scary godfather-ish "friends". No offense to the majority. LOL

Hrm..I like Daughtry. I'll have to let him try it. I'm taking a mini vacation for the next few days so I'll have to bust the headphones out.

And German godfathers...I'm sure they have an equivalent. LOL

-- Posted by Superbethie on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 10:47 PM

Brill,

I was not defending what happened at Waco. I was just pointing out that those responsible were not of just one party. Maybe I'm guilty of not being clear in my typing.

-- Posted by Pups on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 10:49 PM

Bethie,

Where you headed, if you don't mind me being nosey. And glad Bebe can tag along. haha.

I think HERR might qualify for German Godfatherish. Favors might have strings, not now, not soon, and possible not ever, but strings none the less. (paraphrasing of course)

-- Posted by Pups on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 10:52 PM

Reading the comments today I must say Brill is consistent. He/she sees conspiracies everywhere. Babe only sees them when a Dem is in in the oval office.

-- Posted by SWBG on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 10:54 PM

SWBG,

Well said.

-- Posted by Pups on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 10:55 PM

Donnie "Ruby Ridge"

Yes, I knew that Mrs. Weaver was murdered at Ruby Ridge by FBI Sniper, Lon Horiuchi. Really, my typewriter ribbon was running out of ink, so, I thought that I would save time and ink by using puncuation.

I can see why you got confused and thought that I meant that it was one of the terror acts committed by the FBI, BATF, and a Combat Action Group from Fort Hood, in contravention to the Posse Comitatus Act.

But, you should know by now that I am up on my government tyranny, and terror acts, so you should have assumed that I was aware of Ruby Ridge. Who couldn't be?

How you could defend a murderous act by an FBI Sniper as him merely missing his target, which he alleges was moving, is a pathetic attempt to make it okey-dokey, for the that worthless piece of crap, Lon Horiuchi murdering unarmed Mrs. Weaver in the doorway, while holding her infant.

Because Lon Horiuchi, FBI Sniper, murdered Mrs. Weaver, the US taxpayer had to pay up. Here, according to a US News & World Reports citation, is what the Justice Department had to say.

"A Justice Department review later found the second shot was unconstitutional and the lack of a request to surrender was "inexcusable", since Harris and the two Weavers were running for cover and could not pose an imminent threat. The task force also specifically blamed Horiuchi for firing through the door, not knowing whether someone was on the other side of it, along with those who had decided on the special rules of engagement allowing shots to be fired with no request for surrender.[6]

The sniper's two shots were fired at 6:00pm August 22, 1992; the Weavers did not return fire but retreated to the cabin. At 6:30pm, an armored personnel carrier came to the cabin and announced the presence of law enforcement. According to the Weavers, this was the first announcement of the presence of law enforcement.[citation needed]

A stand-off ensued for 10 more days as several hundred federal agents surrounded the house, in which Weaver and his three surviving children remained with Harris.

Horiuchi was indicted for manslaughter in 1997 by the Boundary County, Idaho prosecutor just prior to the statute of limitations for the crime of manslaughter, but the trial was transferred to federal court and was quickly dismissed.[9]"

And, thanks to the FBI and that scumbag Horiuchi, American taxpayers had to pay up.

"The surviving members of the Weaver family filed a wrongful death suit and Randy Weaver received a $100,000 settlement while his daughters received $1 million each. Weaver wrote a 1998 paperback book, The Federal Siege at Ruby Ridge, about the incident. Kevin Harris received a $380,000 settlement."

Oh, yeah, the stinking feds fired first at Ruby Ridge. They killed the Weavers dog, just as other stinking feds killed the beautiful pet dog and her pups belonging to the Davidians at Waco, prior to starting their assault upon the church.

-- Posted by Brill on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 10:56 PM

Bethie,

No fan of Daughtry. I am stuck in the 90's. Still listening to grunge. Try some Yellow Ledbetter for a little grungy blues sound.

-- Posted by SWBG on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 10:58 PM

Pups---

LOL..in all honesty...we decided to go nowhere and we are going to pretend we are not at home. ROFL.

I know..it's pathetic!

We had thought we were going to have to spend a lot of money on a 3d ultrasound before I found out that since I had my regular one at Southeast that I get my 3d one for free..so we are going to do that on Friday. :)

LOL..

Herr probably would qualify for german godfatherish. LOL

-- Posted by Superbethie on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 10:59 PM

Actually Bethie,

Not pathetic at all. Actually could be rather romantical in nature. And a vacation doesn't mean you have to go anywhere. Just be sure to turn off the phone or at least the ringer. lol And Mr Super better be planning on spoiling you while on this 'vacation'.

Wouldn't it be cool if Bebe was doing his best Gene Simmons impersonation on the next Ultra!!!!!

-- Posted by Pups on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 11:04 PM

SWBG..

I'll check that out. I still like 90s grunge. LOL

-- Posted by Superbethie on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 11:04 PM

PUPS, Dick Cheney: My remarks were not just about Waco, but all political goings on. Few politicians earn my respect in either party.

-- Posted by BCStoned on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 11:06 PM

Oh, and speaking of babies. Forgot to give a HUGE Congrats to Aggie and Twiggy on Buckmaster's news!!!!

-- Posted by Pups on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 11:06 PM

ROFL..

I will totally roll laughing if he is impersonating Gene.

I think we are just going to take it easy...

He's been good about spoiling me so far. I'm sure he'll do great this weekend. I know he's planning on putting in a good bit of work to get our guest bed into our house which means I might get more sleep when he snores....and helping get the baby room ready so we can see how everything is going to fit prior to my shower getting here. =)

Plus, I think he is taking me furniture shopping...which is a task unto itself. We have a hard time finding a couch we both like. LOL

-- Posted by Superbethie on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 11:08 PM

Pupslover, you were clear. I understood that you were saying that bad things originate from those in both parties. I thought I was clear in stating that in my post.

"Please be kind to conservababe. I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU MEAN ABOUT BOTH PARTIES, AND ALL HAVING DONE BAD THINGS...."

If I did not make it clear that you were right about both parties, I apologize.

-- Posted by Brill on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 11:08 PM

Old_Codger,

Understood.

-- Posted by Pups on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 11:12 PM

Thanks Mel. Glad I could help.

-- Posted by Instructor_aka____________ on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 11:12 PM

Pups

Hey Babe,

Need a satalite dish installed??????? j/k

And I know that was mean and uncalled for, for those that understand the reference. I appologize, but sometime it feels good to be bad. I'll regret it later, just my character flaw.

-- Posted by Pupslover on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, 9:09 pm CDT

Since you addressed this to me, I must tell you that I do not understand the reference. But, perhaps, it is just a little inside joke of yours and your forum 'friends'?

-- Posted by conservababe on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 11:12 PM

Brill,

My comment about not defending and meaning the party thing was in reference to your statement of,

"we do not normally go around killing people with different religious beliefs than our own. However, I am surprised at the number of people who thought that they "got what they deserved," following the massacre by feds at Waco."

Was not trying to be rude with what I said. Appologies

-- Posted by Pups on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 11:15 PM

Brill

Please don't patronize me. "Terms of Engagement" was not an eye-opener for me, as I have been there from the beginning, so to speak. I had never seen the videos, though, and thought others would like to view them, also.

-- Posted by conservababe on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 11:20 PM

Babe,

No it wasn't an inside joke. I was being rude and spiteful. That's why I appologized. It was in reference to a guy who shot his wife while trying to install his satalite dish. I guess he couldn't drill the holes for the cable so he shot the wall with his gun, not realizing his wife was outside on the other side of the wall. I'm going to have to say 12 Hail Mary's for this one.

But, do appologize, and I guess I could have not explained, but that wouldn't have been right either.

-- Posted by Pups on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 11:23 PM

Bethie,

Pictures of Bebe, Husband spoiling you, Husband moving things so you don't have to, and shopping. Sounds like a good vacation. :-)

-- Posted by Pups on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 11:26 PM

Been an extremely long week already, so going to say my good nights. Night all.

-- Posted by Pups on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 11:28 PM

SWBG

Per your post at 9:54.....

I take offense at your remark of me. I no longer have any respect for you.

-- Posted by conservababe on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 11:29 PM

SWBG,

Yes Yes! Very well said. Bravo! LOL

-- Posted by Proud_Democrat on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 11:54 PM

Bethie,

Guess who used to mosh to 1990s Grunge------>

Believe it, or not. LOL

-- Posted by Proud_Democrat on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 11:57 PM

Isn't Rep Ron Paul a Republican?

-- Posted by Instructor_aka____________ on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 11:58 PM

Well, for all you "Liberals" out here, I have been fairly quiet all day because I have been researching some repugnant and demeaning words for our "conservative" (Babe, notice the lower case use) friends on here.

So, Shall we use...Conformist, Follower, or Sheep. These are some pretty good ones. The thing is, we'll have to experiment to see which one seems to unsaddle them.

Additionally for all of you "Conformists" (Babe, now notice the Capitalization) Liberal is synonymous with noninterventionist, and laissez-faire; which, if you know your French means “hands-off,” as in "hands-off type of government." Knowing this, do you really feel you can continue to utilize “Liberal” (With a Capital L Babe) in an educated sense?

Now, why don't you sheep run along and keep up the status quo and with your man McCain. Baaaaaaaaaaa! (My poor attempt at immitating a sheep.)It does kind of work, kind of ironic that the sheep are usually sheepish. LOL

-- Posted by Proud_Democrat on Thu, Mar 27, 2008, at 12:19 AM

Instructor: Yes, Ron Paul is a Republican. I actually voted for the first time in years because of him. He is a noninterventionist Republican is why I voted for him.

-- Posted by BCStoned on Thu, Mar 27, 2008, at 12:38 AM

Old codger, I was trying to make a point. I know exactly who Ron Paul is.

-- Posted by Instructor_aka____________ on Thu, Mar 27, 2008, at 12:53 AM

Jerry66: If Liberal means classical liberal, you can call me Liberal any time. I am a believer in laissez-faire government if I choose to have one. To libertarians laissez-faire means "leave me alone".

-- Posted by BCStoned on Thu, Mar 27, 2008, at 12:58 AM

conservababe,

You misread me. I did not intend to patronize anyone. Perhaps "eyeopener" was an ill chosen word.

-- Posted by Brill on Thu, Mar 27, 2008, at 1:38 AM

Seems to me, that attacks by the Iraqi Resistance and incredibly violent attacks by occupation troops in Iraq are on the increase, serge, or, no serge.

Here is just a summary of just some of the violence in that occured in Iraq on Wednesday. Most of it was committed by occupation forces.

"Wednesday, 26 March 2008.

· US admits death of American soldier in combat in Baghdad midday Wednesday.

· Muqtada as-Sadr calls on al-Maliki to get out of al-Basrah as death toll reaches 55.

· Fourteen reported dead in US-backed offensive against Madinat as-Sadr. Medical care inadequate due to American blockade of the district.

· US admits American soldier killed in Baghdad fighting Tuesday.

· Mortar shells blast into “Green Zone” Wednesday morning wounding three Americans, as US, regime troops battle Jaysh al-Mahdi throughout Baghdad.

· US troops stage violent attack on neighborhood in Tikrit, killing five, wounding 11 civilians. Local judge among the dead.

· Witnesses say 40 civilians killed in violent US air raids east of ad-Dulu‘iyah Tuesday night.

· Eyewitnesses: regime police, troops retreat; Jaysh al-Mahdi has upper hand in al-Basrah Wednesday afternoon.

· Iraqi regime claims 38 killed, 134 wounded in fighting in al-Basrah as of midday Wednesday. British aircraft reported taking part in offensive against Jaysh al-Mahdi."

"Bomb targets US patrol in Baghdad.

In a dispatch posted on its Arabic website at 6:14pm Wednesday afternoon Beijing time (1:14pm in Baghdad), the Xinhua News Agency reported that a bomb had exploded by a US patrol in Baghdad and that seven people had been killed and 20 more wounded in various attacks in Baghdad on Wednesday.

Xinhua reported a source in the Iraqi regime Interior Ministry as saying that a bomb exploded by a US patrol in the al-‘Abdi Neighborhood of southeastern Baghdad. As usual with attacks on the Americans, no information on US losses was available.

The Iraqi regime official did, however, provide information regarding attacks in which Iraqis were the targets. Xinhua quoted the source as saying that three mortar rounds landed at noon on residences in the ar-Risalah neighborhood of southwestern Baghdad, where US and Iraqi regime forces have been attacking the anti-occupation Jaysh al-Mahdi militia. The mortar shells kill four people and wounded 12 more, the Interior Ministry source said, noting that several houses and private cars had also been damaged.

Mortar attacks took place in several parts of the Baghdad district of al-Karradah, the source added, leaving three people dead and six others wounded. Several houses were also destroyed in those bombardments.

The source said that before noon a bomb had exploded on al-Fallah Street in the Madinat as-Sadr area – another part of Baghdad under assault by US and Iraqi regime forces. That blast wounded three people, all of whom were taken to hospital for treatment."

US Occupation forces make more friends in Iraq, (sic). I would not be surprised if Sunni's abandoned these bribery driven Awakening Councils and join with the Shia's in the al-Madhi Militia to repel the invaders. Here is another news story from Iraq.

"US troops stage violent attack on neighborhood in Tikrit, killing five, wounding 11.

In a dispatch posted on its Arabic website at 7:54pm Wednesday evening Beijing time (2:54pm in Baghdad), the Xinhua News Agency reported that US forces had killed five Iraqis, one of them a judge, and wounded 11 more of them.

Xinhua reported Colonel Hasan Ahmad of the Salah ad-Din Province government police command as saying that US troops surrounded the al-Qadisiyah neighborhood of Tikrit, 180km north of Baghdad on Tuesday night. Colonel Ahmad said that there followed violent explosions and extensive movements of American tanks and armored vehicles as US troops deployed in movements that went on until 10 am Wednesday morning.

He said that US helicopter gun ships blasted houses in the area, killing four people. Colonel Ahmad said that a patrol by the government police in the area after the Americans had withdrawn discovered the body of Judge Munaf Yasin near the home that the Americans had blasted. Members of the judge’s family said that he had gone out to help the victims in the stricken house but was cut down by American soldiers’ gunfire before he could reach them."

"Witnesses say 40 civilians killed in violent US air raids east of ad-Dulu‘iyah Tuesday night.

In a dispatch posted at 12:33am Baghdad time Wednesday morning, the Yaqen News Agency reported that US aircraft blasted areas east of the city of ad-Dulu‘iyah, 97km north of Baghdad, killing about 40 local residents"

Yep, the surge sure is working. Completely trust in your government; up is down, black is white, good is evil in new speak.

-- Posted by Brill on Thu, Mar 27, 2008, at 1:54 AM

RUBY RIDGE, WACO and the cooperative media.

Since we discussed Ruby Ridge today, and Waco, I would like to make one point about the media.

The US Media is no longer the Fifth Estate, a check on the government for the people. The US Media is a very compliant, soft ball media, controlled by their desire to win approval of the White House, so that they might be invited to White House dinners, and be called upon during those enthralling White House press conferences. ( This rant is not party specific)

So, we cannot count on the media to report the truth, to report facts, but to give us the version of the news that they want us to see and form our opinion for us.

Case in point. The assault on the Weaver family on Ruby Ridge, Idaho, by federal agents. The media immediately began to call the Weavers "WHITE SUPREMISTS", when in actuality, they were Separatists. Meaning they wanted to be left alone, mind their own business, and expect others around them to do the same. Over and over, the media called the Weavers, WHITE SUPREMISTS, even after they had been corrected, and some other media was using the correct term, SEPARATIST. The media did this in order to immediately cast the Weaver family in a bad light. Not too many Americans like White Supremists, and the media and the Clinton government knew that. That is why the media used the term. Most Americans do not knw the difference between a Supremist, and a Separatist, because we are one of God's most stupid, ill-informed people on this planet.

Same thing happened at WACO. Koresh was said to believe that he was Jesus, and that he had molested children. The media kept repeating the JESUS propaganda line, over and over, until most Americans, again, one of the most stupid people on earth, began to repeat that to friends whenever they discussed what was happening at Waco.

Long ago, we lost our "free press" which we so ignorantly talk as if it were a fact today. It is compliant, and in the case of Ruby Ridge, Waco, and the war against the Iraqi people, the US press was complicent and a willing accomplice in the rape and pillaging of Iraq by bush-cheney, the neocons, Zionists, globalists, Oil Companies, war profiteering corporations, and the Israeli lobbies which control the executive and legislative branches of our government and infest this current regime.

It will be no different in after the next election. ALL our our presidential candidates, and many congressmen and women have made a pilgrimage to Irsael to be annointed by and gain the approval of the Israelis.

America is being strangled by a foreign power, Israel. We, the people no longer are the government; special interests, corporations, foreign governments, war profiteers, and related jackals seized our government many years ago, and we just went to sleep.

-- Posted by Brill on Thu, Mar 27, 2008, at 3:18 AM

The United States Government Printing Office is outsourcing American passports to foreign powers for printing. MAJOR SECURITY THREAT.

This bush regime knows no bounds in it's effort to bring down America. Now, the very document that we rely upon for travel throughout the world, is being outsourced to foreign powers for printing. Again, I ask you, does that make sense if America was indeed attacked by REAL terrorists on 9/11? No, it does not.

One of the nations, that is being allowed to monkey around with US Passports, is Israel. The Israeli Mossad has the best document forgery apparatus of any nation in the world. One reason is that they have stolen the actual paper used in each of the passports that they wish to counterfit. They use the counterfit documents, passports, etc. that they have stolen to allow the Mossad and their allied agents to operate in the nation which they have stolen the passport, or, as a cover to allow their Israeli Mossad agents to sneak into a country using what looks like a passport from a friendly nation.

I give you the story below, to illustrate that I am not making any of this up. It is from the London Gaurdian newspaper. Circa 2004.

"'Mossad spies' jailed over New Zealand passport fraudDavid Fickling in Sydney The Guardian, Friday July 16 2004 Article historyAbout this articleClose This article appeared in the Guardian on Friday July 16 2004 . It was last updated at 12:05 on July 16 2004. The prime minister of New Zealand angrily denounced Israel and imposed diplomatic sanctions on it after two suspected Mossad agents were jailed for six months for trying on false grounds to obtain a New Zealand passport.

The plot, which involved obtaining a passport in the name of a tetraplegic man who had not spoken in years, provoked a furious reaction yesterday.

"The breach of New Zealand laws and sovereignty by agents of the Israeli government has seriously strained our relationship with Israel," said the prime minister, Helen Clark.

"This type of behaviour is unacceptable internationally by any country. It is a sorry indictment of Israel that it has again taken such actions against a country with which it has friendly relations."

High-level visits between the two countries will be cancelled, visa restrictions imposed for Israeli officials, and an expected visit to New Zealand by Moshe Katsov, the Israeli president, later this year has been cancelled.

Ms Clark said Israel had ignored requests made three months ago for an explanation and an apology.

The action marks the most serious rupture in New Zealand's international relations since Wellington suspended diplomatic relations with France in 1985 after French agents bombed Greenpeace's anti-nuclear ship Rainbow Warrior in Auckland harbour.

The Mossad plot was uncovered in March when a passport officer noticed that a passport applicant was speaking with a Canadian or American accent.

The clue led to the uncovering of a complex conspiracy involving up to four Israeli agents, who had attempted to create a false identity for 36-year-old Zev Barkan, another suspected Israeli spy, using a fraudulent birth certificate, a fake voicemail message and letter box, and concocted medical symptoms."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/jul...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Israel...

Given that the Israelis are immoral and are a terrorist state, I do not believe that it is prudent to allow them to possess the paper that is used to print our passports, nor, allow them to actually print our documents, especially, passports. It is just not sane, not prudent and seems to me to be a means to transfer American documentation to the Israeli's by a very Israeli friendly bush regime which is infested with Israeli supporters and spies.

-- Posted by Brill on Thu, Mar 27, 2008, at 4:35 AM


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