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Fair ~ River stage: 35.51 Falling Sunday, November 8, 2009 |
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Speak Out 2/29/08Friday, February 29, 2008Supply and demand? I HAVE seen several articles over the years about shortages of doctors, nurses, teachers, scientists and engineers. Why doesn't the law of supply and demand work in these cases? Why don't the salaries keep increasing until we have a larger labor market? If you truly value these critical jobs, pay them more. Stop importing foreign doctors, scientists and engineers and developing alternative certifications for teachers. It's contradictory DAVID LIMBAUGH says conservatives are for small, limited government and also are for the war. These are contradictory statements. Wars need money, and government has expanded because of post-9-11 laws. That's why President Bush proposed an astounding $3 trillion budget this year, the most ever. How is that conservative? Limbs in the street I LIVE on North Ohio Street in Jackson. My neighbor dumped his tree limbs on the road. He reduced the street to one lane, and people have to drive carefully to keep from getting their vehicles scratched by the tree limbs. Everyone else in the neighborhood stacked their tree limbs to the side of the street, not on the street. Un-American attacks RIGHT-WING talk show attacks on Sen. John McCain are un-American. The mocking of McCain by these folks exemplifies extremist attacks on a true American hero. One can only hope that McCain doesn't start pandering to them. Investment plan STATE REP. Rod Jetton: Since your political career is now kaput (that would be consumado in Spanish) and you are now Missouri's favorite pinata (that would be pinata in Spanish), I have some advice for your future employment. Pemex, Mexico's national oil production company, has serious cash infusion needs. Use the slush fund you acquired while lagging on Mitt Romney's payroll while you did nothing for Missourians and the $33,000 diverted to your consulting firm by state Sen. Jason Crowell and invest in Pemex. It's a marriage made in heaven (cielo in Spanish). You get to rub elbows with your friends (that's amigos in Spanish) and get far away from all those lazy Missourians. What a lazy bunch they are for not flocking to the $8-an-hour slave-wage jobs that Mexican invaders greedily lap up. And why wouldn't they? Eight bucks an hour is great pay when you get public assistance, live 20 to a two-bedroom house, pay little to no taxes, get your children educated free, access the nearest hospital for your every need at no cost and even get an instant citizen when your next child is born. You're absolutely right: Missourians are lazy as hell for not adopting that lifestyle. So take your slush fund, get to Mexico ASAP, find yourself a nice house in the village (casa in the aldea in Spanish) and set up shop. That is where your future lies, not in America -- and certainly not in Missouri. Comments  Note: The nature of the Internet makes it impractical for our staff to review every comment. If you feel that a comment is offensive, please Login or Create an account first, and then you will be able to flag a comment as objectionable. Please also note that those who post comments on semissourian.com may do so using a screen name, which may or may not reflect a website user's actual name. Readers should be careful not to assign comments to real people who may have names similar to screen names. Refrain from obscenity in your comments, and to keep discussions civil, don't say anything in a way your grandmother would be ashamed to read.
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"Un-American attacks"
"RIGHT-WING talk show attacks on Sen. John McCain are un-American. The mocking of McCain by these folks exemplifies extremist attacks on a true American hero. "
Firstly, I don't believe that John McCain has ever been proven to be a "hero." The term "hero" is thrown around like a sack of cabbage. McCain was a prisoner of war. He never escaped, he never, to our knowledge, ever did anything heroic. There have been stories that have been ciruclating for years that McCain talked his butt off, to save his a** from torture. Since none of us were there, let's just say that he was a prisoner of war, but a hero, he was not.
Sgt. Alvin York, was a hero. Audie Murphy was a hero. Priests,Protestant clergemen, and civilians who saved Jews in Nazi occupied Europe were heroes. Purple Heart winners are heroes, Sitting Bull was a hero, but John McCain was not.
"RIGHT-WING talk show attacks on Sen. John McCain are un-American..." Well, there goes that propaganda line about the military fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan are doing so, so that those "unAmerican" attacks can be made. They are not fighting for our freedom, they fight not for our liberty, they fight not for our free speech. They fight at the request of the president so that his globalist, neocon friends can be enriched beyond belief, and that they can advance their New World Order agenda, and limit our freedom in the US. Thank you for making my point.
"Investment plan"
Yours has to be the most intelligent, humorous, and to-the-point comments ever submitted to Speak Out.
Now, here is a person whom I would gladly meet for Friday lunch. I would even pick up the tab.
Why is attacking John McCain un-American? If someone in this country makes a derogatory statement about some policy or politician, its as much American as someone defending same. If derogatory statements offend John McCain, perhaps he should get a real job and get out of the political arena.
Fletcher, in today's feel good world everyone is a hero.
Supply and demand: "I HAVE seen several articles over the years about shortages of doctors, nurses, teachers, scientists and engineers. Why doesn't the law of supply and demand work in these cases?"
It does, meaning there are no shortages if their pay scale is low.
"Lazy Missourians" who would rather stay on welfare than accept an $8 an hour job, I reiterate:
Until total welfare benefits are reduced to a bare minimum structured to basic existence, it will always be preferable to working that job, wich would probably actually reduce the welfare receipients' circumstances.
It was suggested about 2 decades ago in an IL city with a large proportion of welfare families and "street gang" populations , that the state's welfare system should be changed, including: Enough basic groceries for each month; a place of residence & utility service; telephone service in order to search for jobs; basic clothing suitable for job interviews; taxi or bus vouchers to search for jobs, and monthly proof that recipients had been actively seeking employment. Money & food stamps would be eliminated. Medicaid would be tightened up to discourage unnecessary trips to the ER for ailments that were not considered emergencies.
The theory was that without money, without food stamps to be traded for money, with absolutely the basic necessities (no cable/satellite, computer, junk food, no gas money for "cruising"), finding employment would then be preferable to living on welfare.
Of course, these suggestions were not accepted, and there was a huge outcry against the very idea of making welfare programs "basic" and "life-sustaining," rather than a way of life for many. It did make some sort of sense, though. The problem is not necessarily, as Jetton stated, "lazy Missourians," but the welfare system, instituted to help people survive while working to get on their feet, which apparently discourages that very concept.
The problem is that you are assuming that Rod Jetton is telling us the truth. You are assuming that the the jobs that the company offered were widely advertised in a Wayne County media. Meaning the local newspaper in Piedmont, and on the radio station. I would guess that many Wayne Countians listen to the radio stations in Poplar Bluff, meaning they may have never heard about those fabulous $8 and hour jobs.
You and Rod Jetton do not mention what kind of jobs they were, except for Jetton saying tha they weren't great jobs. What did he mean by not great? Crappy, crappy jobs, or, low paying jobs?
There are only 141 families in Wayne County who are on temporary assistance. The annual amount spent on those 141 families assistance is $400,000. Which means that they average $2,8xx per year. There are almost 4,000 people on food stamps in Wayne County. Which means that your Rod Jettons, and other neocons SOB's have killed off all the jobs in Wayne County, like other Neocon globalist toadies have done all across the US and sent their jobs to foreign countries. Now these globalist slime balls dangle a handfull of $8 jobs and whine, **** and moan, that Missourians haven't beaten down the spirit of Wayne Countians enough that they are on their hands and knees begging to be hired at near slave wages.
I have long said that these globalists pigs want to return us to the days of $2 an hour jobs and make us sit up and beg for them. They are going to be in for a surprise. Because instead of begging, Missourians will become modern day French Revolutionaries and treat the globalists to the same feastivities that the 1789--1799 French gave to their Lords and Ladies who's motto was "Let them Eat Cake."
You can laugh, you can joke, but I have heard sane people begin to grumble and say that we should have a revolution in this country.
An $8 an hour job cannot pay for the gas to drive to work, since the low-life oil scum whom you idolize and fawn over, are raping us every day for our last pennies. You have not a problem with us giving them our hard earned tax dollars stolen from our $8 an hour jobs as a bonus on top of their already gluttonious price gouging profits. Joanne Emmerson voted for bonuses for oil companies while they were making the largest profits ever. Now, they are making even more off our backs, as they and this neocon infested government wage a war for profit while putting the bill on our charge card. I don't hear you little whiners complaining about that. That is different. To help the poor, why that is outrageous waste, but to throw our tax dollars at the gluttionus rich of this nation so that them might even become more rich, why that is just good government, in your ignorant way of thinking.
You have little facts. You have the word of a man who has not represented his district. Who almost lost to a newcomer in the 2006 election. A man who, with the help of Jason Crowell, and cash from Mitt Romeny, has worked for these outsiders, while he abandoned his district.
These people are your heroes. You are morally bankrupt and corrupted. You have no souls, you have no common sense. The dollar is your Lord, the dollar is all that matters to you. Your personal and professional lives reflect that affliction.
Doctor and Nurse shortage
There is a visa program whereby, foreign doctors can be hired at below normal wage for American doctors. Then, after a certain time, the doctor is released from his contract and can become a speicalist and receive a higher wage on his own.
This cunard about a nurse shortage has been around for years. In some instances, in some areas, it may have been true. However, in other areas, it has been used to hire in nurses from Mexico and the Philippines, at a significantly reduced wage. The result is, that it drives the base wage for nurses down. Fewer want to become nurses, due to the educational expense, only to work for decreasing wages.
That is the same effect that results from the doctor program. More foreign doctors on these special visa programs, compete with American doctors. Thus, the wage scale for our doctors will decline as more and more of them compete with the foreigners.
Alan Greenspan said that "we" need to get skilled labor wages down closer to non-skilled wages. Now, if you think that is a good thing, I would suggest that you re-think that position. These slimy, globalist neocons are doing the same thing with professions, by bringing in foreigners.
SILVER is trading over $19.70 an ounce. Just a couple months ago, it was at $12.00 an ounce. Some people are scarred as hell and they are buying gold and silver, as your bush league team has destroyed the US economy, and sent the dollar into the toilet. Yet you still sing the praises of him, and his war profiteering, neocon, globalist slime balls. Sad, sad indeed.
Oh, yeah, the bush league economy is doing just fine.
Today, Gold sold for $950 an ounce, even though America has unprecedented SUPPLIES of gas, OIL speculators and traders drove the price of oil to over $102 a barrel.
And to top it all off, some stores in New York are excepting EUROS ONLY.... AMERICAN Stores demanding payment in EUROS only.
You and your halfw-wit president, are out of touch with working Americans. If this "trend" continues, I have a very strong feeling that there will come a day, when working Americans will rudely, crudely, harshly, jolt you all back to reality.
Jerry you hit the nail on the head with your post on John McCain's being a "hero". I myself have the utmost respect for people that have served our country but this was was over 30 years ago. What has he done since he was in Congress. What impact has he made to move the conservative agenda forward? All I see is him pandering to his fellow democrates in congress and trying to have himself be the media ***** that he is.
In regards to the nursing shortage. If a person see's that this field is worth the time and sacrafice to get their degree and pass boards then they join this field. It is after that will keep them in the field. I have seen first hand many young women join this field and then find that many of their fellow nurses "eat their own" in the way they are treated. They end up discouraged and leave this very rewarding field. If their was a more supportive net to help someone new in this field I believe you will see a higher retention level.
Pups
in regards to last night, yes Aggie gets to feeling this way quite often as you know. LOL, He had to leave yesterday afternoon, should be back today sometime.
Fajar
very good, makes you stop and think how fortunate we all are.
Sorry didn't respond last night was not feeling well, looks like I missed out on alot.
You know, Jerry Fletcher, if you'd carve your posts in about half, they just might get read.
Jerry: Most of the problems that we have in the employment sector has to do with Democrats and Republicans pushing for more and more government involvement in the economy. Companies, in most cases, have no choice but to join in with the government's mercantilistic policies. Neither party is the friend of laissez faire capitalism. To claim that one party is more favorable toward the production of goods and services which benefits the working class than the other is just plain wrong. How many times have you read on this site that government needs to get involved? The thing is they did and pushed many employers or would be employers overseas.
James Nall,
Sort of agree with your line of thought on govt' involvement...but then again sort of don't. I see it like this...
The removal of regulation, taxes and treaties such as NAFTA opened the doors for companies to move outside the US.
Yet, some restrictions and legislation has encouraged companies to move outside of the US, because the doors were open.
Yikes...the "S" word is flying around...stagflation...
regarding yesterday and the citizenship issue Conservababe I admitted that I was wrong and WANTED to get everyone off the race issue so please read carefully next time before you "try" to "teach" me a lesson.
melange: Bernanke hinted that he would leave inflation to its own ends for now in order to keep the US out of a recession. Inflation works as a tax that benefits government, mercantilists and banking. This tax is mostly felt by those least able to afford it, the poor and middle class. New money and the expansion of credit goes to those first in line which ain't that poor slob trying to make a living at the lower end of the wage scale. Bernanke believes that he can handle inflation at any time but recession remains the bigger problem.
Rod Jetton is slime.
I'm always amazed at these "welfare" diatribes on this site. Do you all realize that there are NO PEOPLE on long term AFDC benifits? There are no people on lifelong benifits. TANF only allows for 5 years maximum lifetime benifits (60 months lifetime - no matter how small the monthly check). The states are allowed to extend these for 2 additional years for a small percentage of cases (I think 15% and only for a couple years). People receiving TANF must begin looking for work and/or working by the end of the 2nd year. The benifits are tiny. Everything is strictly enforced. I'm always so amazed - people who think that there are still hordes of long term, intergenerational welfare users are literally delusional - literally delusional. I think you've been listening to a little too much Rush. Bill Clinton and the republican congress ended those programs in 1996. Furthermore TANF (replaced AFDC - the program you think is still running) is a realtively small amount of the federal budget - the big problems are medicare, SS and now military spedning, including the war. Do you people ever get connected to reality? Really. Do the facts about anything ever enter in to your thinking?
James Nall,
Yeah, that is the way I took his comments too. I'm not even close to an expert in this area, but as a consumer... watching prices soar (inflation) does not build my confidence, and causes me to hold on to my pennies even tighter.
Honestly, been concerned about the lending industries practices (unsecured debt,namely credit card companies) for at least 15-20 years.
Seems to me, a portion of our perceived economic growth during this period has been supported by unsecured debt.
Combined with the downturn of the savings rate...US economic troubles are not unexpected to me; as it appeared a correction was bound to happen eventually?
melange: You are right on the money. When overnight loans were at 1% it opened up the door to poor lending practices. Banks were climbing over each other to get this cheap money. The more than 1 million jobs created by it were mostly in construction and reality.
melange
Just a question. Obama wants to raise capital gains tax. What incentive does that give me or anyone else to save and invest?
Seems to me (and I could be wrong) but the lending institutions are in a no win situation. Refuse to lend to those with poor credit history (majority which are minorities and the poor) they're sued for discrimination. Lend to those with poor credit and they're called predatory.
librule, hehe...Now you are getting closer to an area I know a little more about.
First of all, capital gains are not a current issue of concern, if you are saving for retirement--via pretax dollars (401K's, IRA's etc).
Second, never said I supported all of Obama's...LMAO.
Personally, wish the tax code would revert back to the pre-1986 tax reform, where 40% of capital gains were exempt from taxation.
Just a comment about the article: Marquette Faces for closure. Did anyone read this line? "The company used taxpayer support to renovate the ailing structure."
So do the taxpayers have vested interest in the building?? Maybe we should all make a claim.
Oh btw Melange. I've been rethinking my position. I am now FOR the Parks and Recreation Tax.
Librule,
No, IMO...lending institutions have every right and the responsibility NOT to lend to those who can not afford to repay. (Don't recall hearing about discrimination law suits over lending practices? Got a link?)
Seems to me, lending practices of recent years have been preditory...setting folks in these categories up for failure. Afterall the lending institutions could not make money on their new-found money unless someone borrowed it.
Noting...consumers/borrowers have responsibilities too.
Jerry66, What changed your mind on the Sales tax? (btw...won't be debating...just curious)
melange
No link. Just listening to the Reverends Jackson and Sharpton accuse banks of discrimination for not giving enough loans to the minorities and poor. And god knows, those two speak the gospel.
melange: We have been in an inflationary mode since Greenspan took over in the 80s. People on here were/are complaining about the importing of Chinese goods, but those goods were necessary to offset that inflation.
Liberule,
You'll also be pleased to know that I am going to support EVERY tax from now on. I've seen the light! I look at it this way. If the City and the County can utilize taxpayer dollars to fund private businesses like NARS, TOWN PLAZA, and MARQUETTE. Then I might as well vote FOR the taxes that go to the "general" good to. Heck, no need to be skimpy on the trivial things when we support Private Entrepreneurs with tax dollars.
Melange read my post to Liberule. It pretty well highlights my position. No. It's nothing to debate about, I've pretty well made up my mind.
"pre-1986 tax reform, where 40% of capital gains were exempt from taxation" Should clarify this statement, if the investments were held at least 6 months.
Jerry66,
Would never dream of trying to change YOUR mind.
However, if you re-read the article on the hotel, and search the archive, read the 2003-04 clips...those were NOT Cape dollars that funded THAT project.
And if that is all it takes for you to vote yes...no need to discuss further.
Jerry
That's whats great about America. You can support and vote for anything you like.
Also, Can any of you math whizzes figure out how much of the Marquette, the Townplaza, and Nars that we owe. I'd like to start collecting my fair share of the profits. I mean, it's only fair right??
melange: explain to me how banks can benefit making loans that won't be paid back, or what you call preditory loans.
Well..The article does say. FUNDED BY TAXPAYER DOLLARS. But that's ok. I'm not going to argue or debate with you. I am taking verbatum what the Missourian Article says. There is No need to go back and research it.
"The company used taxpayer support to renovate the ailing structure."
"Taxpayer" support was good enough for me.
James Nall,
Completely agree! NOT going to apologize for it, but I am very guilty of buying the least expensive product to meet my needs!
James Nall-
Financial institutions use predatory lending practices to target individuals who wouldn't otherwise get a traditional loan, and the benefit is the ridiculous amount of interest they receive for making those loans.
Obviously, they aren't banking on the loans never being paid back. They want to make loans that these people can BARELY afford, but will STILL eventually pay for. XYZ Mortgage, ABC Title Loans and most furnitures stores fall into this ilk. Heck, most retailers these days aren't making money on their merchandise, they're making their money on 18% plus interest. They are all just finance companies who happen to give you a product in return.
And now, the feds are considering bailing out financial institutions who have made loans to people who couldn't REALLY afford their mortgages. They should be shutting these banks down.
Jerry,
Good luck on getting your share of the profits. I'm still waiting on the Rams and Cardinals to send me my share for the taxpayer supported stadiums that they play in and make huge dollars off of. Can't even get them to send me a couple of comped tickets.
Un-American attacks:
John McCain is a corrupt, silver spoon, nepotism riding, piece of trash.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keating_Fiv...
Feel free to read about the Keating Five.
Feel free to read about how he received promotions in the military based on who his father and grandfather were.
Feel free to read about how he (as part of the "contract with america") lied to the American people in reference to the changed he promised to bring to our country.
You're backing the wrong horse.
Missouri handing the nomination to McCain was really just insuring a Obama / Clinton presidency.
James Nall,
It appears they "thought" they would benefit, as they certainly did do it. Don't you think?
Me thinks...the financial actuaries have it figured out better than I, but with the excessive interest rates, carried forward balances, service charges etc...they must make enough money to offset those who do not repay their loans?
Plus, in the housing market, it appears the govt has bailed them out of their preditory lending practices? So, why bother being responsible business owners who make wise decisions?
Rams, got it. I forgot that one.
Tarantulas,
Thanks, It's nice to know we at least agree on McCain. LOL I hate his smirky smile too!
Tarantulas
Did that Keating Five deal have anything to do with Resolution Trust Corporation?
Tarantulas,
So who are you supporting now?
Damn Jerry
This is getting scary. I can't stand McCain either.
Anyone interested in having lunch with the "crazy broad" and the gang are welcome! hehe
Grecian-Noon-Today (to the right, smoking, we will gladly move, if non-smokers show up)
I suppose Jerry would rather complain about those buildings being abandoned instead of business utilizing and revitalizing the space.
Some people are never happy. See ya at the water slide Jerry.
Jerry, sorry for the length, but as to your post yesterday about the good ole days, thought you might like this one.
1967 vs. 2007
Scenario: Jack goes quail hunting before school, pulls into school parking lot with shotgun in gun rack.
1967 - Vice principal comes over to look at Jack's shotgun. He goes to his own car and gets his shotgun to show Jack.
2007 - School goes into lock-down, and FBI is called. Jack is hauled off to jail and never sees his truck or gun again. Counselors called in for traumatized students and teacher
Scenario: Johnny and Mark get into a fist fight after school.
1967 - Crowd gathers. Mark wins. Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up best friends.
2007 - Police called. SWAT team arrives. Johnny and Mark are arrested and charged with assault. Both are expelled even though Johnny started it.
Scenario: Jeffrey won't be still in class, disrupts other students.
1967 - Jeffrey sent to office and given a good paddling by the
Principal. He returns to class, sits still, and does not disrupt class again.
2007 - Jeffrey is diagnosed with A. D. D. and given huge doses of Ritalin.
Becomes a zombie. School gets extra money from State because Jeffrey has a learning disability.
Scenario: Billy breaks a window in his neighbor's car and his dad gives him a whipping with his belt.
1967 - Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal, goes to college, and becomes a successful businessman .
2007 - Billy's dad is arrested for child abuse. Billy is placed in
foster care and joins a gang. State psychologist convinces Billy's sister that she remembers being abused herself, and their dad goes to prison. Billy's Mom has affair with psychologist.
Scenario: Mark has a headache and brings some aspirin to school.
1967 - Mark takes aspirin in lunchroom and headache goes away.
2007 - Police called. Mark is expelled from school for drug violations.
Car is searched for drugs and weapons.
Scenario: Pedro fails English in high school.
1967 - Pedro goes to summer school, passes English, goes to college.
2007 - Pedro's cause is taken up by state. Newspaper articles appear nationally explaining that teaching English as a requirement for graduation is racist. ACLU files class action lawsuit against state school system and Pedro's English teacher. English banned from core curriculum. Pedro is given a diploma anyway but ends up mowing lawns for a living because he cannot speak English.
Scenario: Johnny takes apart leftover firecrackers from 4th of July, puts them in a model airplane paint bottle, blows up a fire ant hill.
1967 - Ants die.
2007 - Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, Homeland Security, and FBI called. Johnny is charged with domestic terrorism. The FBI investigates parents; siblings are removed from home; computers are confiscated. Johnny's dad goes on Terror Watch List and is never allowed to fly again.
Scenario: Johnny falls while running during recess and scrapes his knee. He is found crying by his teacher who hugs him to comfort him.
1967 - In a short time, Johnny feels better and goes on playing.
2007 - Teacher is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job. She faces three years in state prison. Johnny undergoes five years of therapy .
AND PEOPLE WONDER WHY THIS COUNTRY IS SUCH A MESS ... DUHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
melange: With all that cheap money available for loans, they really didn't put effort into checking out the borrowers ability to pay the loans back. Besides didn't Neal Bush and those involved in the savings and loan crisis get bailed out? The banks were not predatory, they knew from the savings and loan crisis that central banks around the world would come to their rescue if the bubble burst.
yasgurfarm,
Actually am in agreement with you on this one. Why is the government bailing out these institutions that made "risky" loans? The term "risky loan" should have told them from the begining that they were taking a risk.
I'm just not totally understanding the bail out thing. If I made loans to friends and family and knew that there was a risk that alot of them would not be able to pay me back, who's fault is it?? I don't think the Government is going to bail me out because I made stupid loans to people.
Of course, if I sold my 'loan notes' to someone else like the industry did in the beginning of the process of "risky loans", I guess it would be someone else's problem. I guess the ones in trouble actually aren't the original loaners of funds, but those that bought the loan notes from the initial loanies.
Ok, going to stop there, because it makes my head hurt. LOL Just glad I bought a house with low fixed intrest, and one that can be afforded if one in household (god forbid) lost employment. I know some were not as fortunate to have that kind of option and still get a loan.
I kind of messed up my last post. better go feed the animals.
Jerry,
Haven't forgotten you buddy, but looked back and realized didn't have your email. Can't check your 'myspace' at work (and I've work 70 hours this week between both), but will check at home this weekend.
I know, this had nothing to do with current topic of discussion. LMAO
SWBG, I'm not complaining. I am FOR IT! Yes, I will vote FOR any and all taxes. Regardless of who or what profits from it! No more complaining about taxes from me!
Pups, just tell me if you lost it. I can give it out again. swan_kg@yahoo.com
Obviously, capitalism allows for a free market. However, this compells all sectors of the public access to all the material trappings in life, whether they can afford it or not. Easy credit terms, pay weekly, buy here, pay here. A trap.
Citizen A works for twenty years, saves money, has a good job, pays cash for a $3,000 audio system for their home.
Citizen B quits high school, lives on public assistance, goes to RentOne, and "buys" a $3,000 audio system with weekly payments at 21% interest.
If Citizen B is too stupid to realize they are getting screwed by the sharks, so be it. HOWEVER, don't ask me to support either Citizen B in the way of food stamps or welfare because they chose to waste their money on the "bling" they really can't afford, and don't ask me to bail out the finance company when they can't collect from Citizen B.
We're getting screwed from both directions.
Nice discussion today...gotta get going, will check back later on. Have a fabulous day all!
Liberule. Yes! I agree all of what you said in your lengthy post. But I'm still for UHC. LOL. So am I a Libercrat or a Repubamule?
Is it possible for me to be conservative first and democrat second? LOL
Fiscal Democrat, Social Republican?
Jerry
Isn't that what a Blue Dog Democrat is? I believe there are some of those in congress.
The Australian has an article worth a read: Iraq War 'caused slowdown in the US' http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/sto...
Jerry,
Was saving my embarrassment at loosing it. But thanks for calling me out on it. LMAO j/k
Out for a while. Will check back in later.
James Nall,
Very interesting article. The only problem I saw and could cause others to complain, is that there are no current Administration comments in the article. Meaning either they opted not to make a comment for the article or they weren't asked. The only ones with a 'current' comment were former Clinton advisors. And, not saying that deminishes the article, just that others will use it to discredit (lack of better work) the article.
But, it is interesting to see how others outside the US view the economic problems of the US.
melange:
Ron Paul, of course! :)
Spidey,
I know Ron Paul ran as a Libertarian in '88 I think it was. Have you heard if he will do the same this year?
It's Contradictory
Bush as well a most of today's "Republicans" (including McCain) are republicans in name only. Just my humble opinion.
Jerry your problem is you are a free thinker and their is no place for you in the current political climate.
The middle of the road is the most popular place to be but no one claims to be there.
I thought it was a very interesting op-ed by Jay Whitfield. Why shouldn't business downtown expect police to control unruly crowds? If they can't or won't then perhaps the BATF could take a look at the problem. I remember having to take an Amtrak train out of Carbondale late at night. A large drunken crowd actually attacked the train and tried to board. When I later inquired whether the situation has been resolved I was told that the feds had been called in and several bars had been closed.
When families are afraid to go downtown at night then there is a big problem. Soon we will probably become just like Carbondale before they finally took back control of their city.
a
PUPSLOVER: I have reached the point where I no longer read MSM articles. They have became spokesmen for government. It is not necessarily their fault that they have become America's Pravda. Readers along with advertisors determine what a paper submits to public view.
One who stands in the middle of the road generally gets run over.
Swamppuppy,
Your post reminds me of the old saying, "I have my mind made up, don't confuse me with the facts". Many if not most are unaware of the changes.
I do, however, think some legitimate points were made in regards to the standard of living that should be expected for those who receive any type of government assistance for whatever time period.
I must admit that I too am not well versed in regards to what is available in the form of assistance, amounts, requirements, qualifications, oversight and such. I also have concerns, unfounded though they may turn out to be.
in the words of the Road Runner
Meep Meep
Breaking News....
Alma Shrader and possibly other schools are in "lock down" because of shots heard fired in Capaha Park.
NOW REVEILLE, REVEILLE, REVEILLE!! ALL HANDS HIT THE DECK AND TURN TO! The smoking lamp is lite in all designated areas (which is anywhere the non-smokers are), so smoke 'em if ya got 'em. Wait, something's not quite in order here, 'cause I'm probably the only yahoo here still stumbling around with my 1st cup of joe (danged after-hours duty!). BELAY THE LAST ORDER!
Ahem, ahem...slurp, ah...burp. Testing, one two, three...ok.
NOW HEAR THIS - ATTENTION TO ORDERS!: The P.O.D. for today includes briefings, with LIVE demonstrations, on proper flogging form & etiquette, to be conducted by MT 1st Class (Master Tormentor), Super(beat me, beat me!)Bethie, who will also require live victim (oops, er, volunteer) specimens for said flog-dems...FLETCHER, FRONT & CENTER!!...command sincerely appreciates willing, albeit knee-jerk "volunteers". MT Bethie, be advised that since you recently suggested your "spunkiness" levels are increasing (good to hear, how's the teensy one?), your chit authorizing light-duty has been downgraded...in other words, no chit saila, so get "cracking" (geeze, couldn't resist the pun)!! Therefore, you are authorized to employ full-force strikes in your demos...make 'em scream!! Upon securing flog-dems, however, you VILL clean all residual gore from standard-issue whips and account for them to the armory. You may retain personal implements of torture; however, indulging in extracurricular agony-dispensation for recreational purposes during duty hours VILL NOT BE TOLERATED!
A couple or "house-cleaning" notes regarding attention-to-detail: All hands be advised that, since the flog-dems will be conducted on the poop deck, please report to the crews' head to relieve yourselves prior to attending. There'll be enough of a mess to clean up when the flog-dems are concluded. Also, any after-action reports for successful blanket parties or Rat Races should be submitted ASAP...to plan for even better ones!! That will be all, people. CARRY ON!
subnote: Did I top Fletcher's A.M. flatulent diatribes this time!? Huh, huh? Naw, looks like I barely filled up the screen. Geeze, this after-hours duty gig is getting to me...& this eve, I get stuck all weekend 24/7-5. Won't be able to have any fun spreading hate & discontent! Burma Shave. Herr out.
Babe, what's going on? I guess I need to turn on my tv. Still not feeling up to par so to speak.
Herr,
I like your entries, they are entertainin, Jerry's just go on to much and to long, so don't usually read.
Sorry Jerry
Twiggy
No news yet from the media, yet. Parents are notified via e-mail and phone calls when this happens.
Conservababe, you said, "No news yet from the media, yet. Parents are notified via e-mail and phone calls when this happens."
-- Posted by conservababe on Fri, Feb 29, 2008, at 12:00 PM
Yeah. I thought they were supposed to, but they don't this has happened several times this year and we always find out about it after the fact. The ONLY time they email and texted messaged me was on the snow day closings.
I'm sorry Babe, but I don't see anything on the news about this.
I would think that this would be a major deal, so why isn't on the TV? This kind of thing is usually on tv the whole time it's going on.
Jerry
Parents are being notified that the lock down is due to shots being fired in Capaha Park. I would just assume that all schools are in lock down also since some are in closer vicinity. It really is a stict procedure and the school will hold them after class if a danger is perceived. The only time I can remember a lock down this year at Alma Schrader is when parents had a dispute with a teacher and several of their children ran off. The police had to retreive them. Just out of curiosity I wonder who orders the lock down, the school or police?
Conservababe. one of my kids goes to Cape Middle. I HAVE NOT been notified by telephone, cell, email, or text that anything has happened! Again, they did this at Middle School and Senior High earlier in the year, and I was never notified. It really ticks me off because I made a point to fill out the "text" messaging paperwork.
Capaha is much closer to Cape Middle than Alma Schrader. I'm listening to the scanner now, no traffic on there.
Babe, may I ask where u got the info??
Babe you really shouldn't listen to the voices in your head when you smoke crack
Remember people this is a prime example
Crack is Wack!!!!
Say NO to DRUGS!!!
Conservababe! YOu are wrong! I just spoke with Pat Fanger at the Board Office and NO ONE was TEXT or Contacted today because the incident only lasted 5 minutes according to her.
Its okay everyone I placed a call to Farmington and they are on D WAY!!!!
Conservababe, you shouldn't be lying and making up stuff when people have kids at these schools! I am calling the Missourian PERSONALLY!
Twiggy
I just called Alma Shrader and talked to the secretary. She said that the school had been in lock down for about twenty minutes earlier this morning because of shots fired in Capaha Park and some parents did receive notification. Now they are busy trying to catch up on the day. But you would think that KFVS would have mentioned this in between the dogs and Mr Food on their noon broadcast. They are worthless.
Well. This is just PROOF that Conservababe lies! Why anything she says is held as reliable is beyond me! The Missourian definately needs to BAN HER for this!
Conservababe. I talked to FANGER at the ADMINISTRATION OFFICE PERSONALLY! She said NO ONE was contacted!
They would have you dulce! That is pretty important and you just scared the bejesus outta a lot of people and you should be ashamed
People like you aught to be locked away forever and not allowed any human contact what so ever.
Thanks and yes one would think that would that would have been mentioned in the news broadcast.
Fanger said it happened earlier this morning and they were only on lock down for 5 minutes, not 20!
Thanks Jerry66, it's a scarey thing to even think that would happen, you know it happens all the time, but you still never expect it happen at your home area.
Twigg, that hacks me off babe is on here telling stuff like that without facts. The way she was telling this sounded like it was happening now. Fanger said it happened earlier this morning and they were only on lock down for 5 minutes. Fanger also said had the situation warranted they would have sent out messages and texts to contact parents, but due to the short amount of time they didn't notify ANYONE.
conservababe please make sure you have your facts before posting crap like this. You got myself and many others worked up over nothing. I agree with about 99% of your posting but just think about what you are posting before hitting the save comment button. :)
I understand where your coming from Jerry, I have grandkids in school and it scared me also. I would have waited to post something on it, until I had the facts, or at least I would like to think I would have. Sometimes people do jump the gun though.
People were notified else how could I know about it since it was not mentioned in our print and tv media? Ms Fango is out to lunch until 1:15 and I will call back. Her secretary didn't know a thing about the episode.
Well, it's unfortunate because I was all poised to chew someone out at the Board Office for not being notified. So here I am in a huff on the telephone with Fanger, and come to find it was nothing. What's that story about the boy who called Wolf?
That's just it Babe. How and Why were you notified? I'm interested in knowing? Did the school notify you by text? email? telephone? cell?
I have to admit I am curious as to how you found that out Babe?? If the school was the one who did it I would want to know why I wasn't told about it.
Well they must have interrupted her lunch when I called at 12:30.
Twigg. Think about this a minute. IF there were shots fired at Capaha park. The police would notify the Board Office FIRST before calling individual schools. It doesn't make sense that they would randomly call 1 or 2 schools and not contact the Board Office first to initiate the lock downs. CMS, CJHS, and CHS all have school resource officers too. This would HAVE to go through the Board Office first.
Funny, Conservababe isn't answering our questios either.
I agree Jerry I just asked the same question, how did Babe find this info out? If it wasn't on the news, where was the info from?
Alma Schrader doesn't have a school resource officer do they?
I really don't know for sure on that one.
Um Jerry, although I do not agree with John McCain, he is a hero. Anyone who endured what he did 5+ years in the Hanoi Hilton is a hero. He has the scars to prove his torture, yet YOU question this fact? Sorry, you are incorrect.
His Vietnam record is a matter of public knowledge. Yours??? Who knows? You have done nothing but question the military records of others yet I am not even sure you ever served.
If you ever truly were a Marine, it is not even remotely evident today.
I listen to the scanner frequently (not today of course) Usually it would have been reported as shots fired at Capaha park. Then Someone would have had to assess there was a danger to the schools. Now, the SRO (school resource officer) could be monitoring city traffic, then notify the principles office. BUT notifications of such emergencies to parents are handled by the School Board, not the individual school. But if ALma Schrader doesn't have a SRO, then the notification of the lock down would have come directly from the Board Office.
Jerry, I was told by my daughters friend (her son goes to school there) they had a DRILL, this morning, that is all.
I wished folks would refer to him as Fletcher, instead of Jerry. It gets me confused if people are talking to me or him. LOL
LOL understand for now on I will say Fletcher when I am referring to him you will be Jerry or 66. Unless you have something else you would prefer to go by.
Cape Schools only has three school resource officers and the are at CHS, CJHS, and CMS. When an elementary school or alternative school needs an officer they call one of school resource officers from the other schools. That is how it was explained to me by one of the school resource officers.
Hmmm....Well Fanger did say there was a report of shots fired at Capaha park, but they (CMS) was only on lock down for 5 minutes. I'm not sure about Alma Schrader I didn't ask her that. Eitherway, someone has some questions to answer.
LOL...You can always still use SWAN. LOL
librule:
Ron Paul can't seek the Libertarian nomination since they have already had their primary (on Feb 5th)
An independent run is possible though, but not likely.
Twiggy
It was not a DRILL as Jerry has confirmed with his conversation with Ms Fanger. I am still waiting for a conversation with her as her phone is staying busy according to her secretary.
Everyone is worried about their childrens safety, as they should be. If schools went into lockdown every time there were a few shots out here in the country, they would spend most of the day under lockdown. Especially during one of the hunting seasons.
Conservababe, the real question is: Who and How were you notified. That's what we want to know.
Babe, I didn't ask about Alma Schrader. They may have had a drill. But, I think sometimes they tell the kids that it is a drill so they won't set the kids into panick.
Jerry66
Maybe I'm a better investigative reporter than any on this paper or KFVS? LOL
I'm just throwing this out, but are we sure it was suppose to be Capaha Park, if that's the case why wasn't SEMO locked down. The hospital also since it's just across the street.
Also, as I said my daughters friend's son goes to school at CMS and he said it they meaning school said it was only a Drill. But that could have been to avoid panic.
Are we sure it wasn't Arena Park, since it is closer to Alma?
Conservababe, Why won't you just tell us how you found this out??
LOL Jerry66, you just beat me to what I said.
Fanger said Capaha Park Twigg. Ohh Twigg, if he goes to CMS then it is what I said. They had a Tornado warning a couple of times and some other "lockdown" stuff that I did find out about on the scanner. When my kid came home on those days he said they had drills.
I never told him about the storm warnings. I think they tell the kids they are drills now so they won't scare them.
Telling little kids that it's a drill is actually a smart thing, avoids them getting scared and freaked out.
Hellomynameis:
Spending time in a tiger cage doesn't qualify you for being president anymore than sleeping with one does.
You're backing the wrong horse.
Babe, this is no time for games. Really, I want to know how you were notified or I am calling the Missourian and complaining about your actions and having you booted off this forum. Really, I am drawing the line on your regular non-sense here!
If you have a source that only calls "certain" people when the schools lock down into crisis mode. Then this is something that needs to be addressed. If you are just listening to the scanner and making a "self" diagnostic of the situation, then you are posting unreliable information.
I'm being serious here. I want to know how you were notified.
WOW Isn't a beautiful day out today? Even being sick going outside makes me feel so much better.
Well, I left a message with James Bond at the Missourian.
oops James Baughn not Bond. LOL
ALL
Ms Fanger is now in a meeting and cannot take my call. Her secretary assured me that this newspaper and also KFVS has received her statement about this matter. So, I will assume it will be printed shortly.
This secretary also assured me that the lock down (no drill) lasted for five minutes only. So we shall see, from her, how she explains that parents and people on the list were not notified, when they were. And the fact that personell at Alma Shrader said they were in lock down for twenty minutes. And for those of you who are wondering how I know since they say no one was notified...I will ask you to just keep wondering. LOL
LOL
alot of people have been guilty of jumping the gun, so to speak.
Jerry66 didn't you yourself say you just called the school in a huff before finding out what for sure really happened.
I know that I have been quilty of the same thing.
I just read Captainmysterious post, "Cape Schools only has three school resource officers and the are at CHS, CJHS, and CMS. When an elementary school or alternative school needs an officer they call one of school resource officers from the other schools. That is how it was explained to me by one of the school resource officers."
-- Posted by captainmysterious on Fri, Feb 29, 2008, at 1:27 PM
So that would mean that the Board Office would of had to call Alma Schrader about a Lock-Down. So again Conservababe. How were you notified???
Babe likes to be mysterious, LOL
Twiggy, this isn't about jumping the gun. This is about "someone" saying they were notified, but yet no one else was. As any concerned parent would, you are going to call and find out why YOU were not notified, but yet someone else was.
I wasn't really jumping the gun. I called Fanger because I was upset I wasn't notified. (After conservababe posted that the school WAS notifying parents) I wanted to know why I hadn't been notified. That is what this is about.
Well, she isn't going to be mysterious when it comes to my children's well-being!
Conservababe! Stop playing games and tell me how you were notified! IF you have any dignity, you will CEASE this childishness and release your source! This is a bunch of bull!
Jerry Jerry Jerry
Take a deep breathe. You want ME to tell you how I was informed of something that the School Board denies doing?
Game time is over Conservababe! I've called the Missourian!
Jerry66 I totally do understand what your saying and I to would still like to know how Babe got her info.
Sorry if you took my last comment the wrong way am just trying to lighten the mood a little.
I am however extremely grateful that nothing bad has happened.
Drill or not it is a scarey thing to think about and worry about. We all worry about our children, grandchildren and etc.
Again I am truly sorry if I upset you, didn't mean to.
Conservababe. So. Are you saying the school board contacted you? How? by telephone? Cell? Text? Email?? You think you're pretty smart don't you?
66, This is her typical mode of operation. I don't know why the Missourian doesn't remove Conservababe permanently. This isn't right at all!
Jerry
In case you missed it, Ms Fanger has denied that anyone was contacted of the lock down because it only lasted 5 minutes. I knew about it because someone I know was indeed contacted and has been admitted by Alma Schrader that it lasted twenty minutes.
Someone is going to lie about this incidence and it ain't me, fella.
What did happen in Capaha Park? An out of season squirel hunter? Some deer was chewing on some flowers and someone blasted him? I'll tune in for the latest.
In case I missed it???? I'm the one who called Fanger! She told me NO ONE was notified! So. Either YOU or HER is lying! What reason would I have to believe you and all of your secret mysteriousness???? When they send out these "TEXT" and "EMAIL" messages, they send them out in mass, not one by one!
Aww. ConservaMULE has dude all flustered. Play nice Conserva, don't make me have to put you in your place again.
The "school board" didn't notify anyone. I wish people would quit referring to the administration building as the school board office. There is no office for the school board. The superintendent, the administrative staff and other personnel have offices there. The school board meets there when it has a meeting. The staff and administrators are there all day every day.
Jerry66 and Babe,
May I offer a possible reason some were notified and others were not? CLEARLY stating I do know NOTHING about today's event.
However, my guess would be...police called Board of Education aka Central Adminstrative Office (CAO). CAO notified principals of schools. Individual schools may have then proceeded to notify parents, some more quickly than others. Alma Schrader may have been jolly on the spot, whereas other schools held off, got the all clear and never sent out notification.
Just a thought...
Well this just won't do at all. Conservababe, I am totally surprised. I've heard the rumors about your actions, but didn't think them true. I am totally shocked. I am reporting you myself.
yasgurfarm, CAO used to be called the Board of Education. I imagine that is why some refer to it as the School Board. Just guessing...
You idiots shouldn't be mad, you should be grateful that conservababe has kept you on the cutting edge! You lucky people knew something most other parents don't, or at least knew it way before the other parents knew. You should be offering to give her a medal!
James Nall...hehe...if this were not such a serious topic...I'd make a joke, but better not.
It has always, historically, been known as the "board office", but that doesn't make it right. It is an administration office, and always has been. I'm just trying to educate these people, and help them not appear so ignorant . . .
Melange, don't joke, tried to lighten the mood earlier, but it was taken wrong. I know all to well this is a serious subject, wasn't really trying to make a joke, just lighten the mood.
How was lunch by the way?? Hope you ate enough for me also.
Yes Melange, lets keep in mind you have NO IDEA how this goes down. I HAVE kids in the Public School system. When the snow storms hit, the ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICE notifies ALL parents. Fanger...TO ME said that the SAME protocal is in place for school lock downs! CMS is much closer to Capaha Park than Alma Schrader. Police officials would have notified the Administrative office of LOCK DOWN. The Administrative Office would then notify the schools!
Fanger said once they accessed the situation they did not feel it necessary to notify ANY parents. She said NO parents were notified. ALL parental notification of this type goes through the Administrative Office
Since Alma Schrader does not have an SRO, they would of HAD to be notifed directly by the Administrative Office.
Jerry
Let me lead you through a linear analysis of the facts. I posted of the lock down shortly after I was notified by someone who had just opened their e-mail of the day. There were no messages of it being rescinded following that message. I looked for any news here in this paper and finding none, I posted it. The personell at Alma Schrader took my call and advised me of how long the lock down lasted and the cause. I then read of you and others posts that it did not happen or no one was notified. Calls were made to Ms Fanger who said that it lasted five minutes and that no one was notified. Ms Fanger's office says she has given a statement to the press of this incident.
Now, we shall see what we shall see in her statement. I think your gripe should be with your school board instead of me.
Don't see anything on the paper yet about the shooting.
It doesn't surprise me that KFVS did not have anything on the news. A standing joke in my family--if it didn't happen on the other side of the river they won't cover it. (Mainly thinking of severe storms.) I know, that is negative...sorry...me bad.
ARRRRGH! The SCHOOL BOARD HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS!!!!
School ADMINISTRATION, not SCHOOL BOARD!
School ADMINISTRATION, not SCHOOL BOARD!
School ADMINISTRATION, not SCHOOL BOARD!
School ADMINISTRATION, not SCHOOL BOARD!
School ADMINISTRATION, not SCHOOL BOARD!
School ADMINISTRATION, not SCHOOL BOARD!
School ADMINISTRATION, not SCHOOL BOARD!
School ADMINISTRATION, not SCHOOL BOARD!
School ADMINISTRATION, not SCHOOL BOARD!
School ADMINISTRATION, not SCHOOL BOARD!
School ADMINISTRATION, not SCHOOL BOARD!
School ADMINISTRATION, not SCHOOL BOARD!
Jerry66,
NOT going to debate it with you...admitted I was making a "guess" as to how the procedure may have resulted in some notifications and others not. I will advise my "guess" is an educated one.
farm
Okay okay....I meant to say Ms Fanger is responsible for the decisions. LOL
I feel better. The clot has passed. Whew.
Another educated GUESS...
Let us assume, the CAO does the notifications, perhaps by schools (as one big data base would be less easily managed)...
Alma Schrader begins with an "A", first notice sent out...immediately after, before other school list were emailed...the all clear was received.
Just a thought...
Conservababe,
I will stand by the statement made to me by Fanger, "NO PARENTS WERE NOTIFIED" You are saying they were. So the big question here is, who is lying?
You? or Fanger?
Melange. Fanger, "No Parents were notified." All notifications come from the Administrative Office
Jerry66,
Ms. Fanger may "think" no parents were notified...does not make her a liar, does not mean babe is wrong. HOW else would Babe have known? It has NOT been in the news.
My wife and I receive our notifications just seconds apart. Even a database with thousands of text addresses (and I can guarantee you this one isn't that large) would take less than a minute. Sorry, melange.
I can guarantee you that if district personnel knew about it, they were immediately on the phone, texting, or forwarding their friends with the information. Likewise, there would be parent volunteers in the school who spread the information like wildfire to the outside world. We live in a freakin' DIGITAL age!
Therefore, no parents may have been notified via the text messaging system, but that doesn't mean that there were no parents notified.
I would personally get 15 emails or text messages from school personnel were something to happen like that. BEFORE I would ever get the official text message from the CAO.
Melange, (not that I know for sure) but I think she listened to the scanner, formulated sometype of diagnostic and just made a random post like she usually does. True, there were shots at Capaha Park, True, the schools were in lock down (Conservababe says 20 minutes, Fanger told me only 5) BUT FALSE, (Conservababe says and I quote her, "Twiggy
No news yet from the media, yet. Parents are notified via e-mail and phone calls when this happens.
-- Posted by conservababe on Fri, Feb 29, 2008, at 12:00 PM
and
"Jerry
Parents are being notified that the lock down is due to shots being fired in Capaha Park. I would just assume that all schools are in lock down also since some are in closer vicinity. It really is a stict procedure and the school will hold them after class if a danger is perceived. The only time I can remember a lock down this year at Alma Schrader is when parents had a dispute with a teacher and several of their children ran off. The police had to retreive them. Just out of curiosity I wonder who orders the lock down, the school or police?
-- Posted by conservababe on Fri, Feb 29, 2008, at 12:19 PM"
Which according to FANGER is false. Melange, really. Why even try to get involved in this situation? YOu have a parent (me) upset that an anonymous poster (conservababe) saying parents were being notified of a lockdown. Then I call The Administrative Office upset that I wasn't notified and told by Fanger that NO ONE was notified.
Why???? Why why why?? would you even defend or attempt to defend this?
yasgurfarm I didn't receive a call on my cellphone or at home. Nor did I receive an email. (I made a point to fill out a form for all of this)
Additionally, if you read Conservababes post, she makes it sound as if this is going on at the time she is posting it. I turned on my scanner and didn't hear anything. So I called the Admistrative Office. According to Fanger, this was earlier this morning.
yasgurfarm,
Again...NOT debating what actually happened or WHAT the actual procedure is...but can make an educated guess as to why some may have or may not have been notified within the district.
I would guess, based on experience that it would make sense that the school's information is segregated/or at least can be sorted. That way, if say Alma Schrader or CHS has a water or heat issue...only those parents could be notified.
Again, have NO clue what went down or why... and you do raise a valid point, info could have come from someone at the school texting out.
Exactly. So if BABE got her message from a random person at the school, then there is a problem with that in that ALL parents SHOULD have been notified.
Regardless, if Conservababe would have been adult enough to not play games and just reveal her source, most of this would and could have been avoided. You don't become "selective" about what you are going to reveal when dealing with other people's children!
Jerry66,
Was actually trying to make you feel better, as from the outside looking in objectively...it appears there are ways this could have happened, and you BOTH be right.
The important thing...NO one was hurt! The schools had a good plan to protect your children, which they followed. Bravo!
Jerry66, You are correct in your quote and I am not arguing with you incase you forgot. I also was wanting to know where this info came from. I AM NOT THE BAD GUY. Why are you angry with me??
My kid will be home soon, so I will have at least have a "time" when this actually happened!
Jerry
I really hate to burst you little bubble, but my source did receive the notice from the school system.
Twiggy, I am not angry at you. (unless you are defending her actions on this) I mean, this is really silly why the woman don't just fess up where she got the information. It would have settled this a long time ago.
I'm not ragging on you, melange.
Just illustrating the point that there are many ways that non-school staff get immediate information about what's happening at school. Not saying it's right, not saying it's wrong.
Just stating the facts.
This is the REAL no-spin zone.
Babe, you're not bursting "my" little bubble. I'm going with facts and that I have talked with a "responsible" individual who I could talk to in person. Do you have Proof your source did received this?? If not, right now I have to believe Fanger.
Totally agree, if the question would have been answered when asked, this would all have been over and done with by now.
Jerry66,
~breathe deep~ let us go to a peaceful place...Your kids are safe, that is all that matters! I am sorry you got so worried.
yasgurfarm,
Nah, didn't take your comments that way...and I had not thought of someone texting or emailing out.
melange
I think swan and twiggy have every right to be angry. I get tired myself with babe playing her stupid games. Most days it seems she just tries to get a rise out of people.
Sure, they are safe. BUT I'm not letting this go. Either Fanger lied, or Conservababe is wanting to stir distention on the forum (and let's not make any mistake about this, conservababe is not beyond stirring the pot on here)
I would think a "Responsible" adult would have shared her information instead of talking in riddles and secrets. You don't PLAY with another parents child or well-being. I've talked to one of the Webmasters, if I don't get satisfaction there, I will be calling Rust AT HOME.
KoH_Cliff,
Well, in this case...let us say the CAO in the "panic" of a REAL issue, did not get the notifications sent out. Babe's comment (shared information) would have been considered thoughtful and appreciated by other parents, wouldn't it?
Twiggy
I said this at noon. If you don't understand English that's your problem.
Twiggy
No news yet from the media, yet. Parents are notified via e-mail and phone calls when this happens.
melange
I would have to agree that it would seem that babe's intentions were indeed thoughtful. But, when asked how she was notified, she should have just come out and said it instead of playing head games!
Babe, don't start in on me, I haven't done anything to deserve it, I have read everything that has been posted. I ALSO UNDERSTAND ENGLISH VERY WELL, THANK YOU.
Melange. Have you read all of the posts since this started at 11:42AM?
The fact is this. Conservababe said,
"Jerry
Parents are being notified that the lock down is due to shots being fired in Capaha Park. I would just assume that all schools are in lock down also since some are in closer vicinity. It really is a stict procedure and the school will hold them after class if a danger is perceived. The only time I can remember a lock down this year at Alma Schrader is when parents had a dispute with a teacher and several of their children ran off. The police had to retreive them. Just out of curiosity I wonder who orders the lock down, the school or police?
-- Posted by conservababe on Fri, Feb 29, 2008, at 12:19 PM"
Concerned I had not been notified, I called the Administrative Office. I was told by FANGER at that time that NO ONE was contacted. NOW, Knowing of Conservababes previous actions. I figured she was lying. To back that up further. She failed or resisted to reveal her source on HOW she knew this.
Now, if FANGER lied to me, that's now another issue. BUT Conservababe should have been an adult and upfronted ALL of her information.
Twig get this. My kid just walked through the door. He said that he didn't know anything about ANY lockdown. LOL
Peace Treaty Negociations are over for Me'Lange.
Movie Trivia Quotes anyone?
Hard One: We don't need no stinkin' badges!
Medium One: If you build it, he will come.
Easy One: Stella!
librule
The 1967 vs 2007 was very good, and very indicative of what has happened in our PC, paranoid country.
Herr
Keep up the good work. It's a tough job to control all of us, but someone has to do it! ;-)
Twiggy
Hope you are feeling better as the day wears on.
It's in the 60's and the sun is shining! Smile as you think of me out dragging tree limbs over to the driveway to be hauled off tomorrow by some friends.
Darn it, pop has been sticking really close this week...His ESP must be telling him that mom wants to use the chain saw!
Jerry66 LOL go figure.
Hints:
Year, setting
Hard 1948, Mexico
Medium 1989, IA
Easy 1951, New Orleans?
Gurusmom, thanks I do feel better just getting out in the sun, it is a beautiful day.
gurusmom: I have some limbs here in the yard that needs cleaned up. I have a couple of trees that beavers fell into the field. And my creek crossing back to the cabin has a big tree accross it while your at it.
Jerry
MY grandchildren just came here from school. The ten year old said that the teacher told them that they were under the 'code red' and that a 'burgular' had been spotted in Capaha Park and might be coming their school. The eight year old and five year old were told nothing. They were all allowed out for recess but were surrounded by many more teachers and staff on the playground. She says that around ten o'clock the intercom announcement came that the 'code red' was called off.
It has been brought to my attention that a person in adminstration at Alma Shrader is married to a LEO.
Babe, Now don't take me wrong, but I have a question??? Why would your kids be allowed outside for recess during a Code Red?? Also what is and LEO?
I know what ELO is.
I thought lock down meant no one in and no one out.
Never mind Law Enforcement Officer. Duhhhh??? Blonde moment.
A LEO is a law enforcement officer. No, the ten year old says that they did not go into full drill as they are taught, no doors locked or all going to a corner etc.
Troop Beverly Hills, Field of Dreams, and some chick flick.
fajar154, Got the medium one right. And NO the easy one is not a chick flick! LOL
So they weren't really on Lock down, just an alert kind of like for a tornado watch. Where you keep an eye out for the bad weather, incase something comes up.
fajar154, Did you see the 3:42pm hints? Might help.
Melange,
are we doing movie trivia again?? If so I'm lost but intrigued.
James...I'd help ONLY if you let me use a chain saw! And as long as the temps are over 60 and the sun is shining. ;-)
1989 Field of Dreams
melange
What was Professor Marvel's horse's name?
Twiggy60, Yeah! Yes, movie trivia...I got bored with the conversations. Sorry.
Fajar, Are you still stuck on the road.
More Hints:
Hard one: Bogart
Easy one: Brando
Blazing Saddles, Field of Dreams, A Streetcar Named Desire
librule,
Is that a trick question? Which Professor Marvel? I don't know it off the top of my head...when googled...is it an xmen or a comic strip dude or someone else?
gurusmom: I've got three chain saws. But I'm not in a big hurry, we will be planting beans this year. Just kidding! My brother and I will clean them up tomorrow if he shows up, if he don't then I'll get them. I bet you thought that I was another one of Rod Jetton's rejects, didn't you? Though on me he was not far from wrong.
honestly, Last two are right!
Buzz... 1948 Treasure of the Sierra Madre... Was a hard one
melange
1939, part black and white, part color.
Drats! Blazing Saddles is one of my favorite movies. I remembered that line from the movie, but didn't pay any attention to the year you posted.
Tarantulas, I was merely defending McCain's war record which is well documented. I never said I was backing the guy nor that his past war experiences qualified him for the Whitehouse.
Now that being said, he wasn't merely "spending time in a tiger cage". Kinda like saying Audie Murphy was just another grunt in WWII.....
I can damn well bet though that John McCain is more qualified to be President than you.
Librule, You talking about Professor Marvel in the Wizard of Oz? Can't find the horse's name?
What 1964 role was inspired by Judy Garland's portrayal of Dorothy?
Hint: Setting Hawaii
Another hint: ss minnow
Blue Hawaii
Hint: 7 stranded on a island
not a movie...sitcom role...sorry
Gilligans Island
Twiggy60, Yes...Maryann's role
Woohoo
Actual quote from Treasure of The Seirra Madres: "Badges? We ain't got no badges! 'We don't need no badges'. I don't have to show you any stinkin' badges!"
I figured someone had to do it as Jerry66 is busy working on a class action lawsuit against conservababe and who knows else.
Pups, You missed out on all the fun!
See you guys next month! Oh, Happy Leep Year Day!
Was the horses name Flash?
BTDT, Ah...that's why no one got it...my memory ain't that good! Sorry.
Twiggy60, You'll have to wait for Librule to get home...I never found it. Only thing I found, is they colored the rainbow horse with Jello or something like that.
The colored horse wasn't Prof. Marvel's horse, the colored horse pulled the coach around Oz.
Prof Marvel's horse's name was Sylvester. Near beginning of movie while still in b&w.
Melange,
Just trying to lighten the mood a little. I don't think you confused anyone, that quote is like the one from Casablanca, "Play it again Sam", never happened, but everyone knows it.
Melange,
Not missed, just lurking. LOL Am curious how that actions of the day are going to work themselves out.
Oh what the heck, this is an opinion page so might has well throw in mine.
Babe,
As much as you have the right to post as you see fit, alot of the hoopla could have been avoided if you had just "Woman'd" up on the info.
Melange,
Sometimes silence might be golden.
Twiggy and Jerry66,
Your concerns are valid when it comes to your grandchildren and children. But they are home and safe now. ( I know Jerry, that isn't the point of your arguement about the cituation and I don't think you are wrong.) Hug them and tell them you love them.
Ok,,, going back to lurking for a bit. Everyone have a great night.
Conservababe. My kid was at CMS today. Which is much closer than Alma Schrader to Capaha Park. He didn't even know there was a drill or a code red. Fanger acknowledged that fact that CMS was on lockdown for 5 minutes. From what Fanger said and what my own kid has said, I doubt very seriously teachers would tell the kids they are under code red and set them in panick. IF a teacher did do that...she should also be dealt with.
Additionally. A 'burgular' had been spotted in Capaha Park??? What would someone be burgularing during the day?
Good Grief, where are all of our teachers today so they can comment on this? Could the Missourian step up here and get some facts straight?
Babe, Now don't take me wrong, but I have a question??? Why would your kids be allowed outside for recess during a Code Red??
-- Posted by Twiggy60 on Fri, Feb 29, 2008, at 4:24 PM
I thought lock down meant no one in and no one out.
Well all I gotta get some more rest, it's been interesting to say the least. I might be back later. Have fun.
Well Babe it looks like your the one that can't understnad English now, nothing on the news so far.
Holy Dungberries! I managed to issue forth to Cape for a few hours (full disclosure: Actually, just following orders from Sgt Maj Mule!) to scare little children & and engage in some foraging for fresh road-kill (that'd be grocery shopping for libs who managed to escape Rio Linda, only to find themselves bogged down here in SwampeastMO!) for the weekend, and what do I find? Hmmm? My last chance to sneak on line before weekend extended 24/7minus5 duty, to see what's going down in the boghood, and some usual suspects are still obsessing about a non-incident with a park & school! What? Did Farmington grant full weekend liberty to all CCCLs?
Come on, people. Get your "stuff" in one sock and get a handle on it (again, for libs experiencing the above-mentioned bewilderment - translation- get a grip!). If I'm going to bend the rules and sneak on line (tying up the phone line) this weekend to see what H&D is going on, I expect it to be worth my risky efforts. Nothing short of real blood-n-guts, disembowelments, and general mathem will be considered acceptable! Failure to comply will result in blanket parties for all and a massive marathon Rat Race. Is that clear people?! Now, go for the jugular over real issues!!
Conservababe: You are hereby reprimanded for poking, prodding, and generally teasing the inmates, not to mention neglecting to properly feed them. Report to the bilges and commence self-flogging.
MT 1st Class SuperBethie (wherever the heck you are...probably AWOL): Consider your recreational flogging privilages revoked 'til further notice. Apparently, your flog-dem earlier today did not suffice in generating an acceptable measure of terror, so it's back to Flogging 101 for you!
Well, I guess I've done my last dinking off until Monday, when I finally get relieved from this dang ("ya gotta be nice to 'em, & feel their pain") duty stuff. Then I can go back to D.E.S. and indulge in some standard mark-one mod-one mean-spirited nastiness again!! In the interim, y'all have fun with the hackin' & slacshin', ya hea!? Burma Shave. Herr out.
subnote: A little warm-up here, for when Fletcher gets off his meds again!
http://www.semissourian.com/story/131508...
Heh, heh: I couldn't resist just one more ambush bullet before I check out for the weekend. If some of you more compulsive lynch-mob types haven't checked the updated front page of the paper yet, check it out. Perhaps you may be so humble as to offer C-babe some apologies, not to mention take a grab in my sack of fresh "road-kill"...may be some crow in there to munch on!!! Have a nice weekend folks.
Babe, it wasn't in the news but in the paper, but it was only for 5 min, still my question is if the school was in lock down why would the kids be allowed to go outside?? Not necessarily asking you, but in general to the public.
Also I am sorry for any problems it might have caused, still the one question remains, how did you know when no one else did?
You all had me worried about Joe Sullivan for awhile. Glad the incident was bogus.
Twiggy
As I have tried to say, I did not know before anyone else. If you want to be an investigative reporter you should think outside of the box and watch for clues. Mrs Orr has long been a very dedicated teacher and principal at Alma Shrader. She has a reputation for attending to her job seriously and has e-mail contact with most of her pupil's parents. Perhaps, and I don't know, is that she considered their well being when alerted by her long time police officer husband of the alarm. Nonetheless, she is to be commended for her actions if that was the case.
I guess a lot of you had nothing to do at work today, eh?
RE: Supply and demand?
This is the best Speak Out I have ever seen. There is most certainly a shortage of engineers in this country and a ton of the new ones are going to be foreign--I have a BS from Rolla and I went to school with an unusually high percentage of people from the Middle East. I work for a governmental agency reconstructing your roads and bridges and I, of course, would appreciate more funding for what I do--managing entire projects from the government's point of view (tons of documentation). Although I really do enjoy what I do and extra funds are not really neccessary, it would be nice to live more comfortably. Maybe people like me deserve a little more, I don't know. What I do know is that I took the lowest offer of three because it's what I wanted to do--the first offer was for 20% more than I earn now and the second was for 40% more than I earn now and both are private entities. I took the low bid because the first job was with a whole bunch of foreigners in a design firm and the second was all travel and my current job is exactly what I've always wanted to do. However, lately I have been saying to myself, "I'm rebuilding all of this so that people can drive stupid on it, great."
As I said early you have my apologies, but it is still a very concerned subject for me.
Herr,
No offense, but this is one Liberal who doesn't need translation on your posts. Just so you know, we all aren't incapable of comprehension. Inspite of what "Cape's favorite son" tells you. LMAO
Try to have a great weekend even if pulling the 24/7 minus 5 duty this weekend.
Well good night all, still not feeling up to par,so I'm gonna try and get some more rest. Hope everyone has a pleasant evening.
Some people must not know jack ***** about $8 an hour jobs. I have a college degree and coming out it equalled an $8 an hour job. I have been there almost three years and have worked my butt off to get my pay increase...but guess what?!!!! My $8 an hour job paid my bills because of my choices! I'm no slave to anyone but the government---and only to Uncle Sam for a portion of the year until the wages I'm earning become my own instead of income tax. I completely resent the idea that I cannot pay for gas to go to work as Fletcher suggested...I afford my gas and necessities and even a few luxuries. It's about my choices in day to day life. Would I like one that pays more? Who wouldn't. But you don't see me running and crying because I was making $8 an hour. And not everyone making $8 an hour runs around with their hand out.
Lending institutions---
They could benefit if much like anything else borrowers read what they were signing. Their fluctuating rate interest loans wouldn't have been so "hot" if people had actually read what they were signing.
Herr---
damn...the extracurricular agony-dispensation is my favorite. =)
I didn't get to flog them when they got out of line..I was at the doctor and work. :(
Bebe is good...I had my appt today and he is growing normal, had good heartbeat, and I passed both my gestational diabetes testing and my anemia testing. I guess I'm getting closer to the end---I now get to move to visits every two weeks. LOL
James Nall---What is your specific position on abortion and currently illegal drugs? In addition, wouldn't a consistent libertarian put the defense of the country in private hands, so that, say, Wal Mart, GM, Microsoft, et. al., would provide the forces, personnel and weaponry to defend this nation and do so in a more efficient and effective way than the federal government?
http://www.semissourian.com/story/131490...
Went to Best Buy, they now sell an mini idiot filter, fits in any usb port and browse away. It helps especially on here it cancels out people like Fletcher, Who Me etc. SO it doesn't take me long to scan through to see intelligent postings.
philosopher king asked "James Nall---What is your specific position on abortion and currently illegal drugs? In addition, wouldn't a consistent libertarian put the defense of the country in private hands, so that, say, Wal Mart, GM, Microsoft, et. al., would provide the forces, personnel and weaponry to defend this nation and do so in a more efficient and effective way than the federal government?"
No abortions, but as an anarcho capitalist, I would prefer the woman to make that decision. I don't think drugs should be illegal, and I know this places a lot of responsibilty on parents and communities. I would choose a security firm dedicated to just security over government.
farm
I believe that prudentdriver alerted us to this yesterday. Sometimes ordinary citizen reporters know more before the press.
Bethie, the more I read your posts, the more I like you.
Conservababe. Yeah, some investigative reporting. Bogus shots fired call? Yeah, you really knew what was going on. Get real! Thanks for causing a panick!
If you folks carried your OWN guns, a supposed lunatic in a park wouldn't be much of a problem.
:-)
PS If you would like assistance in obtaining a concealed carry permit, please let me know.
Bethie, good points. But when you start paying for day care, that $8.00 per hour will be stretched even more. Additionally, I did some figuring on $8 an hour full-time minus taxes. I don't know what kind of car you have, but my minivan costs me $60.00 everytime I fill it up with gas. Our day care runs about $425 a month (and that is the cheap one) Since I have 2 vans I probably spend about $300-$400 a month on gas (I don't travel a lot, but my wife has to for her job) Anyway, I'm just saying once "baby" comes into the picture, your expense will be picking up. Just think if you were a "single" mother "with" a degree making $8.00 an hour. It wouldn't be a pretty picture needless to say.
Aggie, are you kidding? A "mini idiot filter"? What a boon that could be just on here! LOL
If I could only get it wired to my CB, trust me there are some Fletchers out there on the air waves. There are days I would like to run them off the road. I just wait till their asleep then I cut their coax. LOL
Jerry
Regardless if the shots were bogus there was a lockdown. You have admitted that you would have known nothing about it from your children. Now, I think parents should be told on the NEWS when this happens and the school administrators should not keep it a secret until found out.
I've been wanting a CB again.
Conservababe. That I agree with. What I DO NOT agree with was your hiding your source tacts. Had you been upfront and honest from the get go, this wouldn't have created a farce.
Trivia time, what movie did this line come from? Birdie should give it away
"Your just another lying old dirty birdie"
yasgurfarm, Mortgage
I don't see how anyone could disagree with you on the predatory practices of lending institutions. You are spot on.
I am sure that you already know that the FBI is invesigating at least 14 of these slime ball lenders, some of which are the largest in the nation.
"The F.B.I. said 14 unnamed corporations are being investigated for "possible accounting fraud" and other violations. Insider trading and "valuation-type stuff" is being probed."
"the F.B.I. is "looking at the accounting fraud that goes through the securitization of these loans" and is working "hand-in-hand" with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
This could be potentially explosive stuff, or, so it seems at first blush. After all, the subprime mortgage mess is a kind of massive, mind-blowing, symphony of greed.
"The players include subprime lenders like Countrywide Financial, which loaned money to pretty much anyone while the housing market was soaring, and major investment banks like Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns, Morgan Stanley, and so on and so on. The banks packaged the mortgages and then sold them to other banks, pension funds, hedge funds, and an array of so-called "sophisticated" investors."
====================================
Almost all the talk on this forum about sub prime lending, was trashing the homeowner, like they scammed the poor ole lending company, and forced them at gun point to give them a risky as hell ARM. The opposite is true. The scamming was for sophisticated than just making the loan, making bad loans, it is how they bundled it and sold it on. This is big stuff.
I'm a homeowner. If my Mortgage professional tells me that the can get me a Zero Down loan for 105% of my house value, because blah, blah, blah. Who am I to know any differently. I trust him, he is the Wall Street man, he knows the market, it must be that houses are going up and they think my house is going to be worth 5% than it is now, so they are kindly going to pass the windfall on through to me. Because they like me and the market is good. How do I know? I work at P&G on the line, or, I drive for ABF, or, I sell cars at Cape Honda, I know very little about markets, how loan deals are bunbled, how the loan company makes it's money, so, I have to trust the mortgage professional.
Yet, almost every comment here has been about wicked homeowners, getting loans that they didn't qualify for, etc. When you get a loan, the mortgage company is required to check your income, your employment, your credit score, they do an appraisal on your house if it is a re-fi, or, the house that you are buying, then they call up some of the mortgage lenders which they deal with and try to get you a loan. You don't just walk in there, say you make $170,000 a year, work for the UN Out Reach Center in Oak Ridge, your wife is a translator for the Russian Embassy in Tilsit, you have a 720 credit score, and the value of your re-fi house is $1 million dollars. They check all that out. So to say that home owners scammed the poor ole mortgage lender only shows that the maker of the statment is completely ignorant, and/or deceitful in making those remarks.
Yea, perhaps attempts were make by the home owner to fluff up the paperwork, but if that happens, a good loan office can spot the trouble in a minute. Maybe even some homeownwer pulled the wool over the eyes of a newbie loan officer, at sometime, somewhere, but in 99% of the instances, it is the mortgage company, mortgage borker, mortgage lender which scammed.
Again, thank you.
Jerry
If you read this paper's short article carefully, you will see that they named no sources other than 'school officials' for the lock down. Wouldn't you like the names of the school officials who gave them the information. I take it that it came from Ms Fanger but who knows.
LOL Misery. Kathy Bates....God I hated Annie! LOL
conservababe "Lock Down"
Just try picking up your own children from school during one of these so-called "lockdowns." Try it, I dare you. You will quickly see who controls your children.
Conservababe. Are you still talking? Don't put the blame on someone else. Honestly, You could have nipped this in the bud early on if you had done the right thing.
Pups, Melange, and Aggie. Are you getting your film quotes from here?
http://www.gaos.org.uk/Quiz_film_quotes....
If not there are several good ones on there.
prudentdriver
It is good to know that you see money for what it is, that is useful, but that it is not your God.
Mr Fletcher
Why, government entities control our chidren in public schools. That is why I am demanding that they make it public as to when there is a lock down and why.
Jerry66, no I'm watching Misery right now. LOL
TV or on video? LOL
Babe
If you don't trust the public schools and their judgement with your kids, why don't you homeschool them? I think you just want to meddle.
John McCain Tortured? Not likely.
McCain received his limb injuries due to his failure to draw his arms and hands in tightly as he ejected. They are not the result of torture.
Here is what Phoenix's top decorated cop of all time says about his investigation of John McCain. There are many, many others who have disputed for years, this false claim of tortue. Again, John McCain was a prisoner of war, but that does not, in itself, make him a hero.
"A former Vietnam veteran with top secret clearance says he has personally spoken to numerous POW's who dispute John McCain's claim that he refused to provide information after he was captured and tortured in Hanoi, saying that in fact McCain's code-name was "Songbird" because of his willingness to tell all to avoid torture.
Jack McLamb served nine years in secret operations in Cambodia and other nations before going on to become one of the most highly decorated police officer's in Phoenix history, winning police officer of the year twice before taking a role as a hostage negotiator for the FBI.
Here is former Phoenix officer, Jack McLamb.
"I know a lot of Vietnam veterans and a few POW's and all the POW's that I've talked to over the years say that John McCain is a lying skunk."
"He never was tortured - they were there in the camp with him and then when he came in….he immediately started spilling his guts about everything because he didn't want to get tortured," said McLamb, contradicting the official story that McCain only offered his name, rank, serial number, and date of birth.
"The Vietnamese Communists called him the Songbird, that's his code name, Songbird McCain, because he just came into the camp singing and telling them everything they wanted to know," said McLamb.
McLamb said the POW's told him that McCain had sustained two broken arms and a leg injury from not pulling his arms in when he bailed out of his A-4 Skyhawk that was shot down over the Truc Bach Lake in Hanoi.
The POW's said that McCain made 32 propaganda videos for the communist North Vietnamese in which he denounced America for what they were doing in Vietnam.
"They have these sealed now, our government has these sealed, we can't get to it, they have it classified," said McLamb, adding that in truth "the POW's hate John McCain."
It is commonly accepted that McCain was treated better than other POW's and afforded medical care immediately after the North Vietnamese discovered that his father was a top admiral.
Several Vietnam veterans groups do solely exist to expose McCain's abandonment of veteran's interests as well as his lies about being tortured, including Vietnam Veterans Against John McCain and U.S. Veteran Dispatch.
Doubts over McCain's alleged war hero status and his support to curtail efforts to look for missing POW's contributed to torpedoing his presidential campaign in 2000 and those same questions will undoubtedly surface again should the Senator win the Republican nomination."
Found her on Bravo channel.
And since you are such a fan of cut and paste, here's one for you MJB. As is usually the case, you are once again WRONG.
Prisoner of war
John McCain was flying an A-4E Skyhawk like this one (from a different Oriskany squadron) in 1967, when he was shot down.
McCain being pulled out of Truc Bach Lake in Hanoi and about to become a prisoner of war. October 26, 1967.
On October 26, 1967, McCain was flying as part of a 20-plane attack against a thermal power plant in central Hanoi, a heavily defended target area that had almost always been off-limits to U.S. raids.[52][53][50] McCain's A-4E Skyhawk had its wing blown off by a Soviet-made SA-2 anti-aircraft missile[53] while pulling up after dropping its bombs.[54][55] McCain fractured both arms and a leg in being hit and ejecting from his plane[56] as it went into a vertical inverted spin.[57] He nearly drowned after he parachuted into Truc Bach Lake in Hanoi.[52] After he regained consciousness, a mob gathered around, spat on him, kicked him, and stripped him of his clothes.[57] Others crushed his shoulder with the butt of a rifle and bayoneted him in his left foot and abdominal area; he was then transported to Hanoi's main Hoa Loa Prison, nicknamed the "Hanoi Hilton" by American POWs.[57][58]
Although McCain was badly wounded, his captors refused to give him medical care unless he gave them military information; they beat and interrogated him, but McCain only offered his name, rank, serial number, and date of birth.[57] Soon thinking he was near death, McCain said he would give them more information if taken to the hospital, hoping he could then put them off once he was treated.[59] A prison doctor came and said it was too late, as McCain was about to die anyway.[57] Only when the North Vietnamese discovered that his father was a top admiral did they give him medical care[57] and announce his capture. At this point, two days after McCain's plane went down, that event and his status as a POW made the front pages of The New York Times[44] and The Washington Post.[60] Interrogation and beatings resumed in the hospital; McCain gave his ship's name, squadron's name, and the attack's intended target.[61] Further coerced to give the names of his squadron members, he supplied the names of the Green Bay Packers' offensive line.[62][61]
McCain spent six weeks in the Hoa Loa hospital, receiving marginal care.[52] He was interviewed by a French television reporter whose report was carried on CBS, and was observed by a variety of North Vietnamese, including the famous General Vo Nguyen Giap.[57] Many of the North Vietnamese observers assumed that he must be part of America's political-military-economic elite.[57] Now having lost 50 pounds, in a chest cast, and with his hair turned white,[52] McCain was sent to a prisoner-of-war camp on the outskirts of Hanoi nicknamed "the Plantation"[63] in December 1967, into a cell with two other Americans who did not expect him to live a week (one was Bud Day, a future Medal of Honor recipient); they nursed McCain and kept him alive.[64] In March 1968, McCain was put into solitary confinement, where he would remain for two years.[57] In July 1968, McCain's father was named Commander-in-Chief, Pacific Command (CINCPAC), stationed in Honolulu and commander of all U.S. forces in the Vietnam theater.[2] McCain was immediately offered a chance to return home early:[52] the North Vietnamese wanted a worldwide propaganda coup by appearing merciful, and also wanted to show other POWs that elites like McCain were willing to be treated preferentially.[57] McCain turned down the offer of repatriation, due to the Code of Conduct principle of "first in, first out": he would only accept the offer if every man taken in before him was released as well.[65] McCain's refusal to be released was even remarked upon by North Vietnamese senior negotiator Le Duc Tho to U.S. envoy Averell Harriman during the ongoing Paris Peace Talks.[66]
In August of 1968, a program of vigorous torture methods began on McCain, using rope bindings into painful positions, and beatings every two hours, at the same time as he was suffering from dysentery.[57][52] Teeth and bones were broken again, as was McCain's spirit; the beginning of a suicide attempt was stopped by guards.[52] After four days of this, McCain signed and taped[67] an anti-American propaganda "confession" that said, in part, "I am a black criminal and I have performed the deeds of an air pirate. I almost died, and the Vietnamese people saved my life, thanks to the doctors."[52] He used stilted Communist jargon and ungrammatical language to signal that the statement was forced.[62] He felt then and always that he had dishonored his country, his family, his comrades and himself by his statement,[68] but as he would later write, "I had learned what we all learned over there: Every man has his breaking point. I had reached mine."[57] His injuries to this day have left him incapable of raising his arms above his head.[14] Two weeks later his captors tried to force him to sign a second statement, and this time, his will to resist restored, he refused.[57] He received two to three beatings per week because of his continued refusal.[69] Other American POWs were similarly tortured and maltreated in order to extract "confessions",[57] with many enduring even worse treatment than McCain.[70] However, on one occasion, a guard surreptitiously loosened McCain's painful rope bindings for a night; when months later the guard later saw McCain on Christmas Day, he stood next to McCain and silently drew a cross in the dirt with his foot[71] (decades later, McCain would relate this Good Samaritan story during his presidential campaigns, as a testament to faith and humanity[72][73]). On Christmas Eve 1968, a church service for the POWs was staged for photographers and film cameras; McCain defied North Vietnamese instructions to be quiet, speaking out details of his treatment then shouting "Fu-u-u-u-ck you, you son of a *****!" and giving the finger whenever a camera was pointed at him.[74] McCain refused to meet with various anti-war peace groups coming to Hanoi, such as those led by David Dellinger, Tom Hayden, and Rennie Davis, not wanting to give either them or the North Vietnamese a propaganda victory based on his connection to his father.[57]
In May 1969, U.S. Secretary of Defense Melvin Laird began publicly questioning North Vietnamese treatment of U.S. prisoners.[75] On June 5, 1969, a Radio Hanoi broadcast denied any mistreatment, and excerpted from McCain's forced "confession" of a year before to this effect.[75][76] In October 1969, treatment of McCain and the other POWs suddenly improved, after a badly beaten and weakened POW who had been released that summer disclosed to the world press the conditions to which they were being subjected[57] and the National League of Families of American Prisoners and Missing in Southeast Asia, including McCain's brother Joe, heightened awareness of the POWs' plight.[77] In December 1969, McCain was transferred back to the Hoa Loa "Hanoi Hilton";[57] his solitary confinement ended in March 1970.[57] McCain continued to refuse to see anti-war groups or journalists sympathetic to the North Vietnamese regime;[57] to one visitor who did speak with him, McCain later wrote, "I told him I had no remorse about what I did, and that I would do it over again if the same opportunity presented itself."[57] McCain and other prisoners were moved around to different camps at times, but conditions over the next several years were generally more tolerable than they had been before.[57] Back at the "Hanoi Hilton" from November 1971 onward,[57] McCain and the other POWs cheered the intense, Hanoi-focused, B-52-led U.S. "Christmas Bombing" campaign of December 1972 -- whose explosions lit the night sky and shook the walls of the camp, and whose daily orders were issued by McCain's father, knowing his son was in the vicinity -- as a forceful measure to force North Vietnam to terms.[57][78]
Altogether, McCain was held as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam for five and a half years. The Paris Peace Accords were signed on January 27, 1973, ending direct U.S. involvement in the war, but the Operation Homecoming arrangements for POWs took longer; McCain was finally released from captivity on March 15, 1973,[79] having been a POW for almost an extra five years due to his refusal to accept the out-of-sequence repatriation offer.[80]
Bravo
As I have proven, McCain is a true war hero.
MJB on the other hand is a damn America hating idiot.
The link with footnotes backing up the statements.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain
Hello: everyone knows McCain is a hero. Even the "haters" know it. Hussein Obama and Clinton has said it too.
LOCKDOWNS
Lockdowns, and school shooting drills are means of control, and conditioning. They teach you and your children to conform, the government loves you, and is here to protect you, but in order for them to do their jobs safely, you need to surrender some of your "outdated" thinking on your constitional rights. I actually had an area policeman tell me that he thought that the US Constitution may have been needed at some point in our nations history, but it was outdated today.
Just as you have been told over and over, that "things are different now since 9/11", it too is a conditioning statement. By repeating it, or, even hearing it often, it is meant to condition you for more authoritarian control over your life, now that we have been "attacked." Give up your rights for security. How many times have you heard that on television? It first came from an ABC television station in either Lafeyette or Alexandria, Louisiana after the OKC bombing. They took street surveys asking if people would give up freedom to be "more secure." After that you had idiots repeating that they would do so, like it was some giant "patriotic" gift to all of us on their part that they would do so. "I have given up my freedom so that we all can be more secure, why haven't you?
Schools are encouraged to go on lockdowns. "A burglar in Capaha Park and he might come to the school?" How stupid are we? What would he burglar at school? Was he coming to pilfer their McGuffey's Readers? Their enomus supply of blackboard chalk and erasers? How much are pencil boxes and crayons going for on the black market? Now that they are made in Communist China, is there still a high demand for them amongst the underworld criminal element? Sure, back when these goods were made by Americans making "outrageous" salaries, I could see how an underground economy would flourish, and that you might be tempted to buy your kids school supplies from the trunk of a Cadillac driven by "Vitto, or, "Tony, the Pencil Pusher," but, now, since all these things are made in Communsit China at 30 cents an hour, why would one risk getting caught, buying "hot" school supplies? Oh, even though the supplies are made at slave wages in China, they sell for the same, or, more than when Americans made them. I see.
Lockdowns, terrorist drills, having your wheel-chair bound mother and 9 year old daughter strip searched at the airport, is all part of control and conditioning for that control. They want you to accept, what you would hve never accepted before.
Ameerican "highway checkpoints," another control and conditioning pysc-op is coming soon. Let's see how everyone likes it. After all, it's for your security. Yet, the southern border remains wide open 7 years after the alleged "terrorist" attacks of 9/11. Hmmmmm.
I do not critize the ignorance and stupidity of Americans without just cause. If ignorance is bliss, we are the land of their dreams.
Hello
You have just proven that Mr Fletcher's post is true.
Babe, what did fletcher say, condense version please.
Gee, I thought that the NY Times was verboten as a reference as far as these fascist radicals here are concerned. Yet, in that ample cut and paste, the "fact" that McCain refused an early release was from the NY Times bio on McCain. The website link, also, calls the swiftboated John Kerry a hero, as it does Howard Dean, head of the DNC. Does that mean the local fascists are wiling to agree that John Kerry was wrongly swiftboated, and that Howard Dean, the Democratic National Chairman is a Leader and an Icon, since this McCain referenced sight says that they are?
(66) used to claim that McCain refused early release, is from a very friendly biographer of McCain's, a former US Naval Academy graduate. Not very objective at all.
(57) "Only when the North Vietnamese discovered that his father was a top admiral did they give him medical care[57] "Others crushed his shoulder with the butt of a rifle and bayoneted him in his left foot and abdominal area;.." O, Yeah, dis is da truth, cause, this bit of propaganda crap was written up in a puff piece article in the Arizona Republic, hardly an investigative piece upon their favored little globalist native son and Senator.
For cying out loud, these fascists hate Wikipedia, yet, now, one of them uses it to support the "horrible" torture that McCain endured.
Okay, he was "bayoneted in the abdomen" and that Vietnamese medical care was crappy? Most people whom I know, die of bayonet wounds to the abodmen. Especially, if they are in an environment like Vietnam, during those years of the war. He wasn't medivaced to a rear hospital, or, US aid station, he had crushed shoulder, was kicked, was bayoneted, yet, days later, this man LIVED! Freaking amazing story.
Yet, as stupid and gulible as Americans have proven themselves to be, I guess I can understand why this class of people would believe this tripe.
Aggie
LOL...yes I will give you the condensed truth although I hate to do so because I have to vote for McCain and say that Fletcher is correct.
McCain is not the hero that he has been running on for years just as Kerry. He did indeed become a POW but has avoided and distanced himself from any organization that has members who were with him there as prisoners themselves. He has had the privilege as a public figure to drown out their voices. He himself has acknowleged that he 'sang' to avoid torture as Fletcher said in his cut and paste while others did not. Perhaps when he runs we will see the equivenent of the 'Swift boaters' but instead they will be the 'caged ones' if they are still alive.
McCain was a POW. That is noteworthy, but it does not make him a hero. All the claims of his heroism, come from puff pieces, such as a BIO in the NY TIMES which endorsed him, a puff piece book written by a friendly personal biographer, and another puff piece in his GOP slanted Arizona Republic newspaper.
Those are valid references?
More McCain propaganda crapola published here as da trooth in that cut and paste from Wikipedia.
"However, on one occasion, a guard surreptitiously loosened McCain's painful rope bindings for a night; when months later the guard later saw McCain on Christmas Day, he stood next to McCain and silently drew a cross in the dirt with his foot[71] (decades later, McCain would relate this Good Samaritan story during his presidential campaigns, as a testament to faith and humanity[72][73]). "
THIS CRAPOLA is from "FAITH OF MY FATHERS"..... a book written by McCain, MC CAIN!, MC CAIN!
Hardly an objective reference to back up his, and your "heroism" claim.
Jerry66,
Re: Film Quotes, Pups said he remembers his. I usually have a movie quote/movie in mind and look it up...to make sure I get it right. Eh...been known to not recall so well. So always, try to confirm before posting most anything (even movie quotes), well except for IMO's. LOL
I am a huge movie buff, but memory is so bad...have to put sticky notes in the covers of the DVD's as a reference of when viewed last.
If you have never owned a Leonard Maltin's Movie Guide, you don't know what you are missing. I got hooked on this paperback guide 20 years ago. But will admit, it is pretty darn easy to do a online search now-a-days. Kind of a romantic, traditional, ritualistic sort of person, so the 2008 guide is still on my wish list. $ 9.99 ugh...I can recall when they were only 4.99. Great unique gift idea.