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Witness: Shooting victim unarmedSaturday, February 16, 2008To view the Department of Corrections Fugitive Apprehension Section's firearms policy click here. WARNING: The policy was obtained via fax and may be difficult to read. Zachary C. Snyder, the 23-year-old victim in a shooting that occurred Thursday night at a Themis Street apartment complex, did not appear to be armed when he was shot once in the upper torso, a witness said Friday. Pam Dintelmann, a tenant at the apartment complex, was helping a friend unload groceries from her car when she saw Snyder speaking with a man in the parking lot near the door of her building. She and Snyder were only acquaintances, she said, because he was a frequent visitor of a man who lives in the complex. Darren Ellis, manager of the apartment building, said Snyder, of Dexter, Mo., didn't live there. A state fugitive recovery agent was serving a warrant for parole violation on Snyder and taking him into custody when the shooting occurred, said Sgt. Barry Hovis, spokesman for the Cape Girardeau Police Department. The investigation continues, but evidence indicates the gun was discharged by the agent while attempting to make the arrest, Hovis said. Dintelmann said Snyder attempted to run away from the man he was talking to, and a single shot was fired, hitting Snyder as he turned. Snyder, wounded, then ran behind Dintelmann's car, and the man followed him, gun still drawn, Dintelmann said. Dintelmann said she ran into her house after the shooting because she was afraid and that police had arrived by the time she was able to comprehend what had happened. Cape Girardeau County Coroner John Clifton said Snyder suffered a single gunshot wound to the upper torso. Police did not confirm the caliber of the handgun believed to have fired the fatal shot. Snyder was later pronounced dead at Saint Francis Medical Center, Clifton said. Only one shot was fired, police say. All Missouri fugitive apprehension investigators are issued a Glock 22 .40-caliber semiautomatic handgun, according to the Missouri Department of Corrections policy. Clifton said a coroner's inquest is set for Feb. 26. At the inquest, six citizens will be called to present evidence, and a ruling will be made on whether the shooting was justified, said Cape Girardeau County Prosecuting Attorney Morley Swingle. Swingle said in order for a law enforcement officer to be justified in using deadly force, he must act under the reasonable belief such action is necessary to protect his own life and safety and that of others. The only role of the prosecutor during an inquest is to "have the truth come out," Swingle said. Swingle said that the public nature of an inquest in this type of case can serve to quell speculation that anything is being swept under rug because the person in question is a law enforcement officer. According to Department of Corrections policy concerning fugitive apprehension agents, deadly force may not be used to make an arrest or to prevent escape unless there is reasonable belief that the suspect is attempting to escape by using a deadly weapon, or may otherwise endanger life or inflict serious physical injury unless immediately apprehended. Feb. 10, 2001, was the last time a law enforcement officer was involved in a fatal shooting in Cape Girardeau. Sgt. Brad Moore and Cpl. Keith May of the Cape Girardeau Police Department knocked on the door of a room at the Super 8 Motel after they received information that drugs were being used by the people that rented the unit, said Moore. After two people in the room agreed to let Moore, then the platoon commander on duty, look around, he said he uncovered a jar of what was later confirmed to be methamphetamine. "That's when things went downhill," Moore said. He heard May say the suspect had a gun, just before the man lunged off the bed and shot both officers, hitting May in the abdomen and Moore in the in middle of his arm, shattering part of the bone. May and Moore returned fire immediately, killing the suspect. At the inquest that followed, a jury decided it had been justifiable self-defense on the part of both officers, Moore said. They had the overwhelming support of the community, including the family of the man who was shot, Moore said. Moore said there was a moment of disbelief when the subject began shooting, where he just "didn't believe it was happening." If he and May had not returned fire, he said, he believes the subject "would have made sure we didn't walk out of that room." 335-6611, extension 245 Comments  Note: The nature of the Internet makes it impractical for our staff to review every comment. If you feel that a comment is offensive, please Login or Create an account first, and then you will be able to flag a comment as objectionable. Please also note that those who post comments on semissourian.com may do so using a screen name, which may or may not reflect a website user's actual name. Readers should be careful not to assign comments to real people who may have names similar to screen names. Refrain from obscenity in your comments, and to keep discussions civil, don't say anything in a way your grandmother would be ashamed to read.
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I have a hard time believing that deadly force was necessary in this situation. It's not like this guy from Dexter was a violent criminal. It appears excessive force was used. Just because the deceased had used drugs and was in violation of his parole does not justify deadly force. It's a sad situation for all parties, and hopefully the coroner's jury will render the right decision.
"According to Department of Corrections policy concerning fugitive apprehension agents, deadly force may not be used to make an arrest or to prevent escape unless there is reasonable belief that the suspect is attempting to escape by using a deadly weapon, or may otherwise endanger life or inflict serious physical injury unless immediately apprehended."
__________________
We have these laws in place for a reason. There is a reason that the fugitive recovery agent isn't allowed to just use deadly force for the heck of it.
There are NO reports that the victim was armed or had physically harmed the agent or anyone else for that matter.
The only information we have is from an eye witness who says quite the opposite. That the victim appeared to be unarmed and simply tried to run.
Well I have news for you,, before the "inquest" is held they will dig up all the dirt they can on the guy and he will have had a gun that just dissappeared,,,This man was shot down because somebody with a gun didn't know what it was for... The "Agents" life was "Not" in danger, only his ego was hurt,,, They might want to give that agent a drug test.....
Criminals making more criminals! If the guy didn't run all would be OK. I'm not even saying this was a justified shooting, but I am saying if he didn't break the law in the first place this would not have happened.
looks like somebody's been watching too much of The Rockford Files on the TV to me...
This is worth repeating for those who didn't read yesterdays 78 comments. Check out this guy's MySpace page:
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fus...
Does he LOOK like a GOOD guy? Hell no. Look at his pictures: he had 30 stacks of $100 bills... from hard wortk? Doubt it.
OlderEagle
It doesn't matter if he 'looks like a good guy'.
The law states that unless he was trying to use deadly force or was reasonably thought to pose a threat of inflicting serious bodily injury to others, the agent cannot use deadly force. No matter if on his myspace he doesn't 'look like a good guy'.
I think that MySpace page says it all. The guy wanted to be a gangster, so he died like one. Chalk up one for the good guys.
Before everybody jumps to conclusions on what happen, let the investigators do their job and I'm sure the circumstances surrounding this shooting will come out.
I've been around inmates and I've seen a ton of the MS13 tattoos but the one on his abbs seems different. Whats the 713 all about? Many gangs from the California area use numericals to denote where in California they are from but this isn't one I recognize. I'm not saying this guy was MS13, what would he have been doing in Cape Girardeau? I was just curious if any of you coppers or COs had seen this tattoo before. It must have been important to him the way he shows it off on his myspace.
Well, I will interject and say this. That area is highly populated. What if someone else would have been hit? Let's be honest here. Statistically, the ratios of "hit and miss" in these types of situations are very very poor.
According to the paper, "Idiot" followed him, gun still drawn. Also, I think it's time to release "the mans" information. This doesn't sound very "justifiable" if they keep with-holding his name.
**Message to Bridget DiCosmo** (Get us a name, something just doesn't sound right about this!)
Additionally, Cape still isn't that big of a place. Where was the back-up from local police?
Also, perhaps the young man's character is in question, but if I recall you can only shoot a fleeing "Felon" if they have actually perpetrated a felonious crime. I'm not picking side here, I'm just saying WOW! what if someone else would have been shot and killed if this guy had missed. He better DAMN well of had a good reason to be shooting and running around with a gun drawn.
I agree 66, there is definately something out of sorts here. I work with these types of people every day. Sure they can be considered dangerous, but you can't walk around half-cocked with guys drawn because you are nervous or afraid.
I'll be interested in hearing who this guy was who fired the shot. I'm going to assume he's going to say that Mr. Snyder was turning around as he ran and that he "the man" felt Snyder was turning around to fire a gun.
Read what the paper says, "Dintelmann said Snyder attempted to run away from the man he was talking to, and a single shot was fired, hitting Snyder as he turned."
There ya go. You just gave "the man" his justifiable shooting. Tom and homerdean are right, the Coroner will "hand-picked" a jury, they'll rule it justifiable, once again we'll applaud this "Wild-West" style of incompetence.
I agree with swampeast missouri, and the facts will all come out. The key word is perception of danger. It is easy to search a dead body and determine in retrospect that the individual was actually not armed and not posing a threat.It is quite a different situation when it is unfolding before your eyes and you have split second to determine if you make it home that night. Wasn't a kid in Florida shot and it later came to light that what the officers thought was a gun was actually a video game controller? Maybe it was justified, maybe not, but obviously there is a procedure in place to make that determination, and for those with a conspiracy theory-the article mentions the inquest is by CITIZENS. Officers have to approach every situation with a heightened sense of danger - many officers shot every year in so called "routine" stops with "non violent" individuals. Regardless of the outcome, those wanting to make sweeping generaliations about law enforcement should note that this has not occurred since 2001, and that incident was shown to be justified.
OlderEagle...
What an incredibly dumb response you just made. So because he doesn't "look like a good guy," it's okay to shoot him? You're pathetic. With that mentality, you better hope that you appear to be a "good guy."
Jerry66
You can't shoot a fleeing felon unless there is life or limb implications. See Garner vs Tennessee. It forms the basis for all deadly force SOPs. The agent had to believe that there was a danger and had to be eliminated. Wait for his side. I'll bet he has one too. I wouldn't call the agent an "idiot" without knowing what happened but yes I'm sure he still had his gun drawn. If he had reason to shoot don't you think he would have wanted to survey the sceen before reholstering. He should have. Now saying all that I still don't know what the circumstances are. No reliable source has said he was unarmed. The witness even said she ran back into her building (understandable and correct). Lets wait for the information and I'm sure it will come.
While his tattoo being a "gang sign for MS13" would make the most provocative story, "713" is the area code in Houston, which is his hometown.
Sad story regardless of what really happened....
To answer the earlier tattoo question:
"713" is an area code in Houston, TX which Mr. Zachary C. Snyder claims as his hometown on his MySpace page.
ahh, redlicorice... ya beat me to it :P
Interesting to note on his MySpace, among the posts of loss and reprints of articles from the paper is this post from "Ashley": "wel get even"
I'm not in any way saying that this young man deserved to perish, but it is worth taking into account the general world-view of this individual and those he surrounded himself with. D.O.C. officers aren't exactly drawn to their occupation for its peace and serenity. If Mr. Snyder engaged in behavior that could be considered as provocation, the officer (already on edge) may have felt justified in his actions. Some earlier witness accounts had them arguing. Imagine arguing with a waiter from Denny's, then imagine arguing with someone who's behavior glorifies violence.
Also, not only do we not know the events leading up to the incident, but we are completely unaware of the officer's history and experience. Was he ever in a confrontation like this before? If so, how long ago and how did it end?
Until this issue as a whole is resolved, I think that it is entirely wise to withhold the officer's name. He probably has a family as well... To quote "Ashley" again: "wel get even"
It is important to note that both people involved were fallible human beings. You can hold one of them to a higher standard all you want, that still doesn't make split-second decisions perfect, or even right.
One action leads to another, the thing to remember is he WAS a felon and parole violator who was being sent back to prison, What was he going to do when he he got away? Take the witness that saw the shooting hostage or run down the street and steal someones car, etc. Don't run, go back where you belong, and you won't get shot, If you can't do the time don't do the crime..
I really dislike responding to these articles, but this time I feel I need to add my two cents. It appears several people want to think the worst of the law enforcement officer. And this opinion seems to arise everytime there is an incident that involves law enforcement. As a family member of someone who has spent the majority of his life in upholding the law, I am sick of the public assuming the worst without knowing the facts. It appears that you want these officers to serve you and uphold the law when it benefits you, but when things get messy everyone screams foul. If you would look at the pay scale for law enforcement you would realize that most of these individuals have not chosen their career for the money. Furthermore, they are often threatend and many have had their families threatened. They spend a lifetime trying to protect both strangers and loved ones. Every traffic stop, call to a domestic dispute, etc. may be their last. Also, this is not an 8-5 job. Their lives are on the line constantly to serve the public. As a family member, after reading some of these comments, I question why should law enforcement officers bother. No matter what they do, there are so many individuals out there who are going to be critical of their actions (even when they do not know the whole story). I am sure that many of us who have supported and worried about our husbands, wives, fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, sons, and daughters who serve the public in these roles are greatly disturbed by watching our loved ones walk out the door, not knowing if we will see them walk back through that door again are greatly disturbed by the some of the public's reaction.
MySpace site: "zach was a good daddy to makiah and a good man to me. Rest in heave until we meet again" Quote Ashleyon Feb 15 2008 4:15 PM
Maybe stop quoting what everyone else is saying, and finally read a little of the BELATED victim's quotes.
Quote: Belated Zach Snyder
" Remain Humble;You know things could always be worse,your truly blessed that they're not..."
Quote Belated Zach:
"I like tattoos,playing guitar,listening to music.Most of all my kids! Traveling, and road tripps are always cool too!"
Deus Ex Machina : Quote all of it not just what YOU want to read. (please don't make the choice to be a Dehumanizer)
As far as the myspace background.. it was one several backgrounds from myspace to choose from. As far as the money photo goes.. Have you ever heard of cut and paste?! I have... I copy the internet photos constantly. He may have done that with the money one. What kid doesn't dream of having a lot of money.
I know a boy that acts like a dog, but it doesn't make him a dog.. just because he barks.
I also know people that use nicks like natures feather, but she doesn't run around flapping her wings & chirping like a bird.
I can't believe that the society in our country is shallow to believe that we can be judged by strangers that don't even really know. You're as quick to pull your vocal trigger as the... "man" was to pull HIS PISTOL's trigger. There's a difference between a photo and the real thing. Are you really your nick's name? Because somebody out there may really own that name.
It's been established that he portrays himself in a certain way on his myspace.
However, none of that matters when it comes down to was what the agent did illegal.
His myspace has no relevance in this.
All it is, is kicking a family when they are down.
It doesn't matter what a loser he looked like on his myspace. It doesn't matter what tattoos he has. It doesn't matter what comment someone left on his myspace after he died.
The only thing that matters is that he was unarmed and is a non-violent offender and unless new details surface, what the agent did was illegal. Period.
This could have happened to someone you care about or know. This could have happened to someone who didn't have a myspace that looks like that. This could have happened to someone who didn't have all those tattoos, etc.
What it boils down to and the only thing that matters.. is at the moment that agent pulled his trigger did he have reason to believe that the victim was about to use deadly force on himself or others.
This isn't about how he portrayed himself on myspace.. this is about whether or not the agent had the right to shoot. According to the law, his myspace isn't a factor.
If someone in law enforcement or with the Department of Corrections is abusing their power people should be outraged. Because next time.. it might not be some dude you don't know that you can sit back and just critisize their myspace.. next time it might be someone you know or care about.
Just because someone was charged with posession of drugs a few YEARS back does not mean that someone in law enforcement can do just anything they want to them.
It would be a crazy world if everyone who ran, or had done drugs, or missed a p.o meeting was shot down and killed.
By that standard Barrack Obama should be dead right now.
But as you can see, it is possible to have used drugs at a point in your life and then go on to become not only a productive citizen but someone can go on and even do great, amazing things with their lives.
Something this person will never be given the chance to do.
I can't stress enough that the ONLY issue at hand is whether or not the agent had the right to pull the trigger at that very moment in time. Not his myspace.
You kind of make my arguement for me. You wrote.
"What it boils down to and the only thing that matters. is at the moment that agent pulled his trigger did he have reason to believe that the victim was about to use deadly force on himself or others".
That is the question that needs to be answered before judgement. I agree completely with the content save the word "victim". I do not however agree that this could happen to anybody. First you would have to go to DOC and walk away from a release program. This was not some man crossing the street somewhere that was attacked by a roving band of police officers. As far as the tattos go I had never seen a "713" tattoo and was asking what the origin and meaning were. All tattoos have some meaning. Being able to read them is key to being a police officer. I've been away from the profession for a while. Usually the area code tattoos are (were) seen more in the California DOC and its products. Posters here state that 713 is the area code to his home. That makes sense. Things may very well have changed in the years I've been away from the job. The only reason I mentioned MS13 is the flame letters, location on the body and the 13 portion of the tat. It is not uncommon for various sects to add small things to the 13 like dots (usually three) or the letter "M" (thirteen letters into the english alphabet) No disrespect to the family meant. I doubt I'll ever need to read tats again but I was curious of it.
faithnu: I respect the POLICE law enforcement. I think they should have a retirement pention, and I think they should be paid more.
I also think there should be better, proper training for the Department of Corrections Agent. I'm looking at this one, still nameless, living, individual agent. The one that is obviously PROTECTED by the POLICE right now.. living and breathing. Unfortunately, this agent did not ask the police :( to be there with this young man. I still find it strange that this STILL NAMELESS Agent that is PROTECTED by our POLICE didn't ask them to help. I find it strange that as he was talking to Zach that Zach wasn't automatically HANDCUFFED. If he FEARED this young man than why the second he was with him did he not handcuff him? OUR POLICE would have. Why did the young man have a chance to run? If the agent was fearing his life than why did he stand and have a conversation with the Victim?! This was wrong. There is good and bad in everyone. We know that the majority of our authorities are good people, but we also know that there are a few select that abuse their power. That's a fact, and has been proven numerous of times. So, don't make this about everyone.. We're talking about the AGENT and about the VICTIM.
Come to think of it... in the eye witness report did the agent at any point in time while he was standing there talking to him try to handcuff him or arrest him?
I recall the eye witness saying that the victim and the agent were standing there talking and the victim took off running.
And then that brings up the question, if the agent was in such fear for his life why DIDN'T he try to arrest him at any point in time, if he was so scared for his life why was he just standing there in the parking lot talking to him?
Things to think about.
The eyewitness quoted in this newspaper says that Synder ran from the officer, stopped and then turned toward him. Snyder was shot frontally in the torso. We will have to wait until the inquest, it seems, to learn if he put his hands up or was threatening that he had a weapon on his person. And we have yet to learn what was said between the officer and Snyder in the parking lot prior to his running. Perhaps he gave the officer good reason to believe that others lives would be in danger.
Glean from my posts what you will. My intent is not to assign blame but to look into the possible psychological motivations of those involved using what little information available.
If you'll direct your attention to my previous post, I question the possible motivations of both sides, including the acknowledgment of the inherent humanity and thus fallibility of both sides.
Resorting to righteous indignation in support of either side does little to help the examination of the situation.
As of yet (notice that I'm not using a definitive clause) there is no substantial evidence to support your claim that the officer acted in an illegal manner. This is why I consider the actions and potential motivations (notice the lack of a definitive here) of both sides.
And contrary to what one might believe - Mr. Snyder's habits, preferences, choices, and environment are noteworthy indications of possible motivation (definitive? I think not) and culpability.
I doubt he said anything to the officer that gave the officer good reason to believe he was going to inflict serious injuries on others.
I mean I highly doubt he told the officer 'hey i'm going to run and hurt people'.. come on now..
Pam Dintelmann, a tenant at the apartment complex, was helping a friend unload groceries from her car when she saw Snyder speaking with a man in the parking lot near the door of her building.
Speaking?!
Why wasn't he handcuffed right then and there?
Cabingirl,
With all due respect, you know nothing about the duties and or training of a fugitive Unit Officer. They MUST be POST certified just the same as any other LEO and receive the exact same training in addition to DOC training. This Agent's sole job is to locate individuals who have absconded from supervision or are avoiding supervision and execute probation/parole warrants as they are often a low priority with many agencies who already are covered up with outstanding warrants within their own jurisdiction. Sometimes they request assistance from local authorities if they know they are going to make an arrest, but often they don't know they are going to make an arrest because they don't know where the person is, only where they might be. They will routinely go to numerous locations without ever finding the individual they are looking for because by the very nature of the warrant, the person's whereabouts is unknown.
As to the conversation, LEO's use what is called "Verbal Judo" which is merely verbal interaction in an attempt to gain compliance and to diffuse a situation and avoid the need for force whenever possible. Maybe he was trying to avoid a confrontation. I wasn't there and don't know and neither do you.
As to this instance and justification, I will await the completion of the investigation when all of the facts become known. I would hope others will do the same.
Deus Ex Machina
You say "Mr. Snyder's habits, preferences, choices, and environment are noteworthy indications of possible motivation (definitive? I think not) and culpability."
Being that on his myspace he doesn't talk about physically harming anyone at any point in time and there's no photos of him holding a weapon I'm guessing it isn't too relative.
Unless listening to rap music or having tattoos is now punishable by death?
But also would be true of the agent then, correct? Every detail of his habits past and present should play a factor as well?
KJT
I love how you quote all the laws EXCEPT the ONLY one that matters..
That he CANNOT use deadly force unless he had a reasonable belief that the victim was going to attempt to use deadly force against him or reasonable belief that the victim was going to inflict serious injury to others.
JustSomeone
YOU have NO idea what was said in the conversation between the officer and Snyder.
But, it is NEVER a wise choice to run from a LEO under any circumstances. Stupid is as stupid does.
Might not be wise.. but as the law states, it doesn't warrant death unless he was reasonably believe to attempt to use deadly force.
For those who say well he could have run and hijacked a car to get away, or something to that effect.. that would be true of anyone running in that case, and would also mean that anyone running can be shot to death legally. Which is NOT the law.
JustSomeone
Thats what most everybody is here saying. You don't know what the agent saw that made him/her shoot. Wait and find out. It might make sense then. It might not and be a mistake in judgement. Point is nobody here can possibly know. You can't blame the agent until such time as you know why they took the action they took. The thing about the handcuffs is typical armchair QB stuff. If the agent had walked up and attempted to cuff him do you honestly believe he would have just let that happen? He ran. How do you know this didn't begin when the agent tried to cuff him? You don't.
And just as I have no idea what was said, neither does the person who stated that maybe he said something to make the officer think he was about to inflict serious injury on people.
They would also be out of line according to you, but I didn't see you screaming THAT one out.
That's the funny thing.. I don't see you saying that same thing to the people who say he deserved it and it was just.
I'm just going by the information we have been given which is that he was unarmed and didn't put up a fight or struggle, but just ran.
One thing we that was not reported is whether Snyder ran toward the apartments or away from them.
OlderEagle
We agree. Wow. :)
Well unless the law states that it only applies if they aren't running to a building then it shouldn't apply?
Justsomeone,
I said I don't know, I am witholding judgement. I don't have the information to make this determination. That detemination will be made by those elected or appointed to do so.
JustSomeone
Don't be so silly and pretend you are on the inquest jury and you must make a decision.
Running towards the building may have indicated Snyder was going in for weapons or hostages.
KJT
I hope you don't take my questioning as dis-respect towards You. I'm simply questioning this nameless agent. He has a chance to tell whatever he feels like telling. KJT, Zach honestly doesn't have a chance to tell us HIS side Ever. Now that's painful. He can't tell his family, he can't tell his children, and he can't be protected now as this nameless.... agent is.
To answer some of the comments you posted..
Sometimes ((sometimes?)) they request assistance from local authorities if they know they are going to make an arrest, (((arrest???? do you mean with handcuffs???))) but often they don't know they are going to make an arrest because they don't know where the person is, only where they might be. ((hhhh, where they might be????))
Maybe he was trying to avoid a confrontation.((avoid a confrontation????????????))
Wish he would have tried to avoid pulling the trigger. I wish he was 'properly trained' to walk away. He gets his tomorrow. Zach doesn't....
Most of all, I wish Zach had a chance to tell his side of the story like this agent apparently has all these days to do.
Does running toward a building definitavely give reason to believe that someone is going to use deadly force against you?
That's even if that was the case at all.. as there are 3 other directions he could have gone in.
Cabingirl
If Zach had not run from a LEO, he would be alive today to tell his story. But, he did, and he isn't. Whether is was justified or not, we will know soon, but the fact remains that Zach made an unfortunate choice.
conservababe: Right, it's all about you and what you think? Now i find that to be silly.
You said: he MAY have been Running towards the building MAY have indicated Snyder was going in for weapons or hostages.
No.. it may have meant he was running away to be free. Either way we will never know.
He doesn't get to tell the inquest jury does he?! The agent sure gets to tell whatever he feels is right in HIS actions.
I don't know why we even need an inquest, justsomeone and a couple others were able to determine exactly what happened by reading the newspaper, a couple of posts and watching TV.
conservababe: If Zach would have had handcuffs on instead of a conversation to avoid the "confrontation" he'd have his tomorrows with his family as well.
So maybe he could have stayed there while the agent handcuffed him.
the agent was too busy speaking, apparently.
Cabingirl
If Snyder had not made the choice to violate his parole, their would have been no need for handcuffs. Choices do have consequences.
BTDT
I may be in a position to know more than you think.
I'm not the one assuming, we'll put it that way.
Cabingirl,
Hopefully I can answer some of your questions. A fugitive Unit Agent spends a great deal of time looking for various individuals on who warrants have been issued. Warrants are issued when a Probation/Parole Officer doesn't know the whereabouts of an individual or who are avoiding supervision/contact. If you don't know where someone is, you can't know you are going to find them at any given location to make an arrest. The Officer is almost always looking for several people at the same time. Additionally, in most cases the Officer has never met the individual and all he/she has to go by is a picture. They must positively identify the person to whom they are speaking as actually the person on whom the warrant has been issued and to do so they may need to speak with the individual before taking action.
Yes, "avoid a confrontation". When making an arrest, I always spoke with an individual and explained the situation as well as their options and the consequences of resisting. Yes "with handcuffs".
The Officer could not "walk away", to do so would put him in violation of policy and probably in violation of "Jake's Law". When your job is to execute warrants, you cannot choose which to execute.
I will say it again, I do not know whether this shooting was justified or not and will not take sides on this.
justsomeone,
Then we probably both have the same informaion, but I am still going to wait for an inquest.
The only thing we know for sure (aside from the fatality) is that mistake/bad decision was made by one or both parties.
Let's take a look at our players in this scenario:
Mr. Zachary C. Snyder
DOB: 01/25/1985: included for identity verification purposes on case.net (et al.)
- Previous criminal history & repeat offender.
- History of resisting arrest.
- Parolee & in violation of said parole at time of incident.
- Involved in communication with Unnamed State Fugitive Recovery Agent prior to incident.
- Attempted evasion of said recovery agent.
- Suffered fatal injury from officer's discharged firearm.
- Was found to be unarmed.
State Fugitive Recovery Agent
Name/DOB: Unknown
- Trained in suspect apprehension.
- Trained and certified in firearms safety (required), and must maintain certification.
- Following any incident involving a discharged firearm and injury is placed on administrative leave with certification withdrawn pending investigation.
- Is susceptible to the same mental strains as typical law enforcement.
- Unknown experience level.
The question becomes which scenario is more likely?
1. Mr. Snyder was shot accidentally while running from the officer. (Officer was inept.)
2. Mr. Snyder was shot under the mistaken impression that he was a danger to the officer or others. (Officer misread the situation, but acted with proper intent.)
3. Mr. Snyder was shot while racing for a weapon or otherwise posing a threat. (Officer acted accordingly.)
3. Mr. Snyder was shot because the officer was emotionally unstable (angry/upset/scared/racist/didn't care), or too lazy to chase him. (Officer is evil.)
Applying "Occam's Razor," and RELYING SOLELY ON INFORMATION AVAILABLE AT THIS TIME, it is my theory (and only that, a theory) that #2 is the more likely scenario.
Conservababe. There is NOTHING that says he was shot frontally in the torso! It just says he was shot while turning.
Cabingirl, you have some very valid points. I just so happen to work in the Corrections industry and find this to be a tragedy. IF the person to be apprehended is deemed a "danger," it would protocal for the arresting DOC officer to request backup.
Additionally, it doesn't look very reassuring to withhold "the mans" identity. It doesn't promote any public trust. Waiting for a Coroner's inquest will only inflame the situation. It needs resolved immediately. Swingle should just turn this over to the State if he can't handle it.
I see Conservababe is being a cranky old heartless witch again. Don't worry Cabingirl, the old tripe never has anything good to say about anyone!
marvgard
"Dintelmann said Snyder attempted to run away from the man he was talking to, and a single shot was fired, hitting Snyder as he turned.".....from the above article.
Deus Ex Machina,
You can't really make any decision regarding the gunman. He's UNKNOWN, and we are unable to check his credentials. I was thinking #1 and #4 sound about the best. When ever you have an officer shooting an UNARMED subject, it's never good.
Again, he should have had back up. The ONLY reason to have shot was to shoot to kill. There are only 2 options here. NOT four.
#1 a weapon was brandished and the DOC officer was in fear for his life
#2 a jumpy DOC officer made a mistake because something the deceased did made him flinch.
Since we know there WASN'T a WEAPON. I would put my money on #2. Additionally, by withholding "the man's" name. It just heightens everyone's suspicions.
mary_jo
I will tell you to your face that I have reported you for attacking me in your post.
Conservababe. Yes, "hitting Snyder as he turned." But this is what you said, "Snyder was shot frontally in the torso." IF, the un-named DOC official was afraid Snyder was turning to shoot, I doubt he would have waited for him to turn frontally. Most likely it hit him in the side.
marvgard
Since you mentioned publically in this forum that you are in the corrections industry, would you mind giving us your credentials so that we can better assess your expertise.
Thank you conservababe. I just tried something out. YOU have solved this. If the DOC officer shot him while he was turning, that would mean the DOC officer already had his gun drawn.
The DOC officer didn't see him start to turn, then draw, then shoot. He would have had to have his gun already unholstered. This means, the DOC officer must have unholstered his gun as soon as the Mr. Snyder fled. The DOC officer probably unholstered, ordered Snyder to STOP!, and when Snyder turned, the DOC officer probably already had his gun sighted on Snyder.
The sudden turn by Snyder probably caused the DOC officer to react and shoot. Eitherway, the DOC officer should NOT have had his gun unholstered.
Conservababe, my credentials aren't in question here. DOC officers ALL go through the same basic training. The ONLY time you unholster your weapon is when you plan to shoot.
gard
You are incorrect of LEO's and 'unholstering' their arm.
I hope not. Have you been trained by the State?
It's a shame you didn't get to meet Zach. His smile could light up a room, and he was embarking on a road to make positive changes in his life. I put no stock in his MySpace....that is not the Zach I know.
If you read one the articles closely it makes mention of his violation regarding not being where he was supposed to be. A bad choice? Yes. But when reality of that bad choice sets in, I think anyone would run at the thought of being returned to prison. Here are some of Zach's recent words...regarding his dreams.
"My dreams are of nothing too extravagant, but rather humble feelings. I have a humble attitude for the most part. Raising my little ones to strive in a happy path down life's roads are my dreams. Keeping my children with love, honor, respect, loyalty, and wisdom to stay on a positive track in life's many battles is my dream.
Giving love is better than any amount of riches in this world!"
Sound like a hardened criminal to you? I think not.
He was trying....unfortunately, he made a poor decision.
I just know Zach will be missed greatly by a lot of people, and my heart goes out to his family and friends.
Conservababe.
1. A law enforcement officer shall not unholster or exhibit a firearm except under any of the following circumstances:
a. For maintenance of the firearm;
b. To secure the firearm;
c. During training exercises, practice or qualification with the firearm;
d. When circumstances create a reasonable belief that it may be necessary for the officer to use the firearm;
Note...."When circumstances create a reasonable belief that it may be necessary for the officer to use the firearm"
Note the word USE the weapon!
gard
You are correct, though you have misinterpeted number 4. Read it again, very slowly.
Conservababe. Just spell it out. What point are you trying to make? There is no misinterpretation here. Yea...I replace firearm with weapon....woo hooo! You got me!
"reasonable belief that it may be necessary for the officer to use the firearm;" Reasonable Belief is a very grey area. I was keying in on the word USE here.
Again, if you are going to hammer this out on "reasonable belief" if the DOC officer knew Mr. Snyder to be armed, he should have had back-up.Bottom line!
Also, if the Mr. Synder was fleeing that means there was no reasonable belief that the DOC officer was in harms way. This is just another reason why the DOC officer shouldn't have unholstered his weapon.
Ditto Pandora! They need to release this DOC officers name immediately! Not only does it cause a vote of no confidence among the masses, it makes it appear as though the law enforcement community has something to hide. Just because someone has a record, doesn't mean they're not human. Not that it will solve anything, but I hope Mr. Snyder's family has sought out a lawyer!
I just realized something, this state recovery agent is probably a contracted agent through some sort of bail bonding company.
Marvgard, you're right! There is no title for "Fugitive Recovery Agent" in the Missouri DOC.
http://www.doc.mo.gov/division/hservice/...
This is starting to make sense. If you search the net, you can see that "fugitive recovery agent" is synonymous with the term bounty hunter. So this individual probably isn't even a state trained DOC officer, he's just a bounty hunter contract by the state. I highly suggest that Mr. Snyder's family seek an attorney!
http://www.fugitiverecovery.com/agency.p...
marvgard,
I am familiar with the training DOC guards receive as opposed to POST Certified LEO's and they are in no way comparable. The circumstances under which they are authorized or are likely to use their weapons are also different. Also you should know that the State of Missouri does not use private contractors. Only a LEO can execute a probation/parole warrant. And yes, I have been trained by the state.
You do however raise some very valid points worth considering.
Maybe they have chosen not to release the officer's name because as many of you have already proven, the officer will be tried right here in the paper with minimal facts. All individuals are innocent until proven guilty. Not only in this case but in many instances individuals' names and information regarding a crime or incident are presented by the news media. All facts are not and cannot be presented by the news media. Regardless if this is law enforcement or a suspect in stabbing a man on the street,let the coroner, prosecuting attorney, and those who are involved do their job, especially since they are presented all the evidence, and not just what is available in to the news media.
BDTD. Then find something about the Missouri DOC Fugitive Recovery Unit. I haven't found anything yet. I can't find the existence of any "Fugitive Recovery Unit" for the Missouri DOC anywhere.
faithnu, the Coroner will "hand-pick" a jury. The jury can consist of anyone he wants. If this is a State agent, I don't understand why the States Attorney and the State folks haven't stepped in. This just doesn't make "any" sense to me at all.
It never ceases to amaze me, that if you are a white republican with a stack of money and a gun, you are successful and only protecting your second amendment rights.
But if you are a brown guy with a tattoo with a free skin off some website that has a gun graphic and a probably photo shopped picture of some CASH, you are an assumed criminal.
Yet, we continue to raise our kids on TV and violent video games…
And what is that old fluff piece they (SE Missourian) decided to run? It has nothing to do with this. Who's writing your copy? Hire me! I will stir that up for you with some actual relevant information.
I find it truly offensive that the above article implies that…well I quote:
"Feb. 10, 2001
He heard May say the suspect had a gun, just before the man lunged off the bed and shot both officers, hitting May in the abdomen …They had the overwhelming support of the community, including the family of the man who was shot, Moore said."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I find that a pretty big mouthful. Oh, you shot my kid..well you did the right thing then. I doubt this happened at all, but the point is, this case is irrelevant. This is a whole day and night and another seven years off our own little small town Valentines day gift.
A whole WORLD of difference between a guy that was armed and wounded police to some little freaked out 23 YO running away in panick.
What kind of nickel and dime record did Zach have? If that is available I'd like to see. If this guy was really worthy of the death penalty, I am sure that record would be plastered all over. My guess is, he wasn't a violent offender.
Yeah good call Marv, maybe the "officer" was some kind of Blackwater reject?
Maybe he's just another guy trying to get through the day and made a very serious mistake.
Lack of training maybe?
For now, of course, they can expect us to speculate… since we aren't being given any info.
And,I agree, I hope the family has a good attorney. Nothing will replace this loss… but at the very least… this family should be taken care of financially, since only money seems to talk anymore. Zach is gone… to me, that is a lot, and I didn't even know him. Call me pro life or whatever.
I can only imagine the devastation this will bring on his family and friends.
marvgard,
There is a link to it at the top of this page.
Nooo That's a facimile. I am talking a link to the "Fugitive Recovery Unit" for the Missouri DOC. PLus I have look at all the DOC departments. There isn't such a thing. If you can find it show me...Don't pawn this thing off as a source!
BDTD, That is just a section out of the DOC manual the "SECTION" on Fugitive Apprehension.
marvgard,
As a DOC employee, you have access to the original, look it up.
marvgard
Your lightening thought processes are amazing. There are private fugitive recovery agents (bounty hunters) who deal with bail jumpers. Then there are state and fed agents. geez
Conservababe, get educated will you? BDTD. Yes..Looking at my resources now. There are NO Fugitive Recovery or Fugitive Apprehension agents listed. If you find it. SHOW ME!
marvgard,
If you will read carefully, that is not their job title, it is what they do. This is covered in other posts.
Pandora
Well, it didn't take long for someone to suggest the family of Mr Synder should be compensated financially.
BDTD,
WOW!! Who are you kidding?
"A state fugitive recovery agent was serving a warrant for parole violation on Snyder and taking him into custody when the shooting occurred, said Sgt. Barry Hovis, spokesman for the Cape Girardeau Police Department."
and
" it appears that a fugitive recovery agent for the Missouri Department of Corrections fired the weapon, Sgt. Barry Hovis of the Cape Girardeau police department said Friday."
and...."All Missouri fugitive apprehension investigators are issued a Glock 22 .40-caliber semiautomatic handgun, according to the Missouri Department of Corrections policy."
Yes there is a title. The bottom line is, you can't find anything to refute what I am saying.
This must be a division of Probation and Parole
Found it!
Page 13!
http://www.doc.missouri.gov/division/hse...
If you read, this applies to Probation and Parole Officers.
But...this is worse, this means this person probably gets firearm qualified once or twice a year.
Until you have been in the shoes of the officer do not sit back and pass judement! All you that are refering to laws and policies, you need to actually go and read them (All of them) not just one or two lines. The fugitive officers typicall do not go looking for parole violators that are low priorty, they are seeking Dangerous felons, or high profile cases for the most part. So which catagory did the offender fall in? There is so much more information that you or I are unaware of about the offender, the incident and the officer. The truth will come out and if the officer is worng then he/she will pay the price, and by the way that officers life has changed now. Anytime you have to take another human life yours will change. One comment on one of the other stories stated that his mother droped him off to say good bye to his kids and was going to turn him self in, yea ok, then why did he run. This is a sad sad situation for everyone involved, the officer, the offender, the public and all the family members of everyone involved in this incident. Some of you need to have some compassion.
MAA sez:
"The truth will come out and if the officer is worng then he/she will pay the price,"
Sure he will... it is easy enough to put his head on the pike. The problem is bigger than that.
This isn't one bad apple anymore kids.
MAA, Right have compassion. All you do is tell everyone about the officer. He has his life. End of SUBJECT!.. THE REAL END!
Oooohhhh, someone put her foot down!
This is all just conjecture and speculation. I really don't think that anyone actually believes that anything will really be solved on the comments section of the seMissourian. This discussion is really nothing more than a mental and social exercise in debate.
If you like cops, you think the guy probably had it coming. If you don't like cops, you think he was a victim.
So he had dreams and aspirations. So did Hitler and Mother Theresa. No, I didn't call Mr. Snyder a Hitler, this is called an EXAMPLE. All of the prisons, schools, churches, and homes of the world are filled with people with good intentions. So what that he had a family, so does just about everyone else in the world. If he was all alone, would his life be worth any less? I'd like to think not.
In the end I think they both probably screwed up. One led a life of crime and the other ended up killing a man who probably didn't deserve it.
Until the evidence comes out, nothing is certain. And even after it comes out, people will take from it what they will. Call it a cover-up or a witch-hunt if they don't agree. Trying to put an end to an argument here is like trying to stop the sun from rising and setting. Posting: "End of SUBJECT!.. THE REAL END!" wasn't worth the time you took to type it. People will do what they want anyway... some even die for it.
So is the measure of a man equal to a list of crimes on the internet, what he posts on his MySpace page, a badge, or a gun? Again, I'd like to think not.
I think there's more to us than that, but it shouldn't be used to cloud judgements or distract from cold, hard facts... of which we are seriously lacking. Reason (here I mean ACTUAL REASON and not just the string of letters most people use to take up space in a sentence) is not the antithesis of humanity, but an expression of the human condition that allows us to rise above petty bickering and self-interest. So how about we use a little now and again by looking at all sides of the equation?
Perhaps the real tragedy in all of this isn't a death so much as what perception of this man is left behind: a short life punctuated by a string of bad decisions and an unfortunate preference of MySpace layouts. All of which is picked over by a bickering set of anonymous online strangers. That's not how I want to be remembered.
I would encourage you (whoever reads this) to take steps to ensure that you aren't remembered in a similar fashion.
The measure of a man or woman should be more than the sum of their parts.
I hope that all of you who are so quick to pass judgment before all of the evidence is disclosed don't ever have to be on the receiving end of a similar situation as the fugitive investigator has. Do you really think he feels good about what happened whether it was justified or not?
I wouldn't know if the agent's feeling bad. I haven't heard a single word from the agent Or about him. I don't even know HIS name. I haven't seen his background looked up and analyzed by perfect strangers. I haven't seen people judge and truly be able criticize his life. By now he's even had time to delete anything that may have been on the internet that could have discriminated his creditentials. I do know one thing, I'm glad I have my dad and my son. I'm afraid of the choices my son may make in this day and age. Right now it's easy for me to make his choices for him. When he's 18 no matter if a son or daughter comes from the Amish, comes from another country, comes from a preacher.. or christian background. Mother and Fathers do their BEST, but choices even when wrong is what makes us stronger, wiser with AGE. Something this (to me still a child at 23) will never get to experience. Maybe through these struggles in his life, after he learns through these minor charges in his manhood he may have become an agent or help those in need. If you look at the past history.. what he was 18? Please, he was still in harmone changes... Mothers know this. Mothers should be outraged & you're right.. if you know the WHOLE story of HIS side.. (which i'm sure some do).. You would know more. It was very unjust & it honestly saddens me. I'm suprised more mothers are not scared that this agent that is running around deciding life and death are not more scared of the future choices of their children (no matter what they teach them).. might happen... I know I am.
I love you mom. I love you dad. Hugs and kisses!!!
I wish one day Zach's children could say that to him. I know Zach's parents will never hear that from him. He didn't get his extra five minutes of love.
I know the agent is probably hearing it from his family right now. Right defend his life that he lives now. I wish Zach could defend his, and be on here to tell his side.
cabingirl - I am a mother and all I know for sure is that I am grateful for the fugitive apprehension officers and what they do. I certainly doubt that the officer left home on Thursday morning hoping for the day to transpire in the way it did. People in law enforcement are underpaid and generally go unthanked. They do whatever they have to do to ensure that they end up at home with their families at the end of their workday. Mr. Snyder chose his path on many occasions. He chose to be placed on probation instead of going to prison. He broke those rules and ended up on parole. He again broke the rules and ended up with warrants for his arrest. Then in his final decision he chose to again run....this man made many decisions on his own which resulted in his death. I am sure the entire story will be known after the hearing on the 26th. Of course, some will never be happy with the story because it will never say that Mr. Snyder was not at any fault.
(((scary)))
mom_of_3
No worry there's more than one protecting the agent, his name. and his life story. He gets to go home to his family without even a scratch. He didn't even have to use his energy running after the now victim.
We know nothing of THIS AGENT. The agent is NOT a policeman. I wish he was, though.. they would had been better trained, had back up & cuffed him. They would only have shot him if he was armed & dangerous. They would have yelled STOP or HAULT I WILL SHOOT! Not this agent. According to the news he didn't even run until after he was shot. He was not armed. There was a witness, Thank God! I am a mother, too. I do my research on all I can find not just this one article. It's ashame I can't find more about This Agent. Yes, criminals worry me! No they're not all dangerous. Trigger happy authorities really scare me! Especially, when this AGENT.. had his gun drawn while innocent people are outside unloading groceries. That could have been my daughter. The woman was not scared of Zach whom was already outside. She ran inside AFTER the bullet was fired. What if you would have been unloading your groceries at the wrong time?
I have to leave now. Otherwise, I would discuss this more. I am a mother, too. I have to take my children grocery shopping. I hope I am SAFE unloading my groceries. If I see anyone standing outside talking.. I may get scared a bullet may be too close to MY children or to ME for comfort. I love protecting my children, but not protecting a man that i don't even know his name or story too. People are people rather you give them a badge or not. That is why it is great to have chances to change a way of thought. To grow with age and learn wisdom. I know of nobody that is perfected. The ones that are very close probably learned through phazes and stages to life. (Rather they were caught by the law or not) The law states the agent is wrong, but HE gets to learn from his mistake. That is why we have laws. That is why we have judges and jurors. The law applies to all. No one is superior, Nameless Agent or the victim Zachary Snyder. Zach has now been given a death sentence. He was given his death by One Man without back up, without plan, and without warning. This is a sad situation. Not only did he take a life, but he also risked the life of an innocent by stander. Quite the Valentines day for all. Would you feel so safe if that innocent by stander was you or your child?! Better be real with yourself, this is the real world. This MAN is walking the streets again. If HE goes unpunished how will he ever learn his wrong from his right?! Everybody has consequences, and he broke the law. I'm not saying shoot the agent dead for a consequence, but i'm simply stating he did wrong, and he does NOT need to be on the streets with a gun. He is an endangerment to everyone. I would feel more protected with an agent that would NOT jeaopardize innocents peoples lives.
Also, If this victim would have been a son of a judge or a juror would he still have pulled his gun's trigger!? (think honestly about this don't white wash it) He did read Zach's case. We at least know that much. If he felt danger why did he go alone? Would he of had a different reaction if Zach would have been his kid? I will never know. I don't even know who the MAN/PERSON is that pulled the trigger to kill one & endanger another. You could be the agent for all i know. He's out enjoying his life right now. I have errands to run... Give your children a kiss and hug no matter who you are. Life is precious. Hope you're safe by the Right Agents that will not endanger you for standing outside. Rich or poor, badge or no badge, power or no power. Love one another. Help the weak, wisen from the strength, and always remain humble.
I wanted to write on here because I have seen everything all of you have been writing.
I want to say I know Zach personally as I grew up in the same town as him and he dated one of my friends. I never was very fond of him however I can say that the outside exterior you all are seeing on his myspace is not the person Zach was.
He may look like a thug but in all reality that boy just wanted to fit in. Sure he did drugs but when he was doing drugs the only person he was hurting was himself.
He wasn't out hurting other people. And the car theft on his criminal record? Well let me clarify that. One of my friends didn't like Zach and she is the one that pressed those charges on him. So its not like he went out and car jacked someone. It was a friend of ours that just flat out didn't like Zach. Now I'm not going to go into more details on that.
But anyway you all say he's in and out of prison. Well did you look at the charges? None of them are violent charges. They are all related to drugs, in which he was only hurting himself with that. And child support cases. Which anytime anyone is ordered to pay child support it is a judgment/order so of course that will be on your record.
Now with all that being said lets move onto the shooting. I saw that some of you are saying that is what he deserves, etc. etc. Well think about it..... the boy was scared when he knew he was going back to prison, so he ran. Like most people do in that situation.
Him running justifies the bounty hunter shooting him? I don't think so! The bounty hunter obviously knew that Zach was not a threat because if he thought he was a threat he would of never went alone.
Witness says Zach had no weapon. Why would an innocent lady that has nothing to do with what's going on be dishonest? Put your son, brother, any relative in Zach's shoes.
Or better yet think of it this way. Your son is out with friends trespassing on someone's property. Your son has a previous record of doing things. Well the cops get called and your son takes off running and the cop shoots him for running.
How would you feel then? Would it be justifiable? Just because Zach has a criminal record of hurting himself does not mean that he is not a victim in this situation. It's not okay to murder someone just because they have a previous non violent record and they are scared so they ran.
Oh and just a little fyi for some of you. I don't know if you are aware or not but most bounty hunters have their own past criminal record. So who's to say this guy doesnt have one????
cosprings,
Not that I'm challenging your argument as a whole, but I'd like to touch on one point.
Yes, he was only hurting himself on the drug possession charges, but the "Possession of Chemicals with Intent To Manufacture" (case# 03CR332655) is a bit more serious and posed a threat to everyone around him, not just fellow drug users. This was back in 2003, so he may have done his time for that and never touched it again; but it does set a more disturbing history that just recreational drug use.
Not that he deserved to die for that, mind you.
Cosprings:
You mention the drug charges as being non violent and he was only hurting himself. His record says otherwise. On two occasions he has resisted arrest. He was convicted of possesion of chemicals to manufacture, and possession of more than 35 gr of marijuana. The former MAY have influenced the Officer's frame of mind. The later says he was convicted (twice)for intending to manufacture or distribute drugs. Therefore I have a hard time with your statment that the drugs he was involved in were only hurting himself. I am not justifying, or judging the outcome, but you can't sugarcoat all of it.
cabingirl
It does no good to respond you your posts because your not listening to anybody else's points. Your arguements are red herring that bear no connection to the case. Just because you keep saying something doesn't make it true. Now go ahead and make the same tired points again with no further information than is "reported" in this paper. I'll wait and see what happened then decide.
Wow! So now you guys are basically saying that a drug conviction also rectifies a death penalty? That fleeing from Law Enforcement is also punishable by death.
The last time I checked that death penalty was reserved for Murders. I become more and more shocked every day that I read these blogs.
Marvgard,
Did you just skim over the posts and rush to post a response. Go back and re-read:
"Not that I'm challenging your argument as a whole, but I'd like to touch on one point."
"Not that he deserved to die for that, mind you."
We were referring to the previous statements that glossed over Mr. Snyder's drug charges, not that he deserved to die for them. I was trying to highlight facts and not sensationalism. Deciding who deserves what is beyond all of us, but we can deal in facts and not try to cloud them to serve our own positions.
Is the Cape Girardeau community so polarized in its opinions. Is there anything here besides the extreme "black or white", "one way or the other"? (did I just quote a country song?)
Is there no room for rational thought or empirical reason?
In regards to some of you who are asking me what about this and that on his criminal record. Well the fact of the matter is I'm not here defending Zach's acts. I'm simply telling you what I knew of him and my opinion of the situation. I believe I am entitled to my own opinion and if you don't like it, well I'm sorry but I don't care.
And I honestly don't care how many drug/manufacturing charges he has. The point is the boy was shot and killed for running.
Oh, I love each & every one of you guys. How can you defend as innocent the intentions of one with a lengthy rapsheet & the nickname '2 guns'... That MySpace page is worthy of repeat coverage, just to taint the eventual jury that will try the officer who did his job. And did it well, I might add.
Pandora: Sheesh, feel free to spew your nonsense, but please learn to spell.
WhoMe: Alas, we do finally agree on something. haha.
Cosprings: "The point is the boy was shot and killed for running."
Actually, the point is that no one really knows what happened....yet. All of this is pure speculation and everyone sounds like fools defending either party in this case so far.
It's been my experience that if it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and acts like a duck - it's probably a duck. Likewise a hoodlum.
The very persona that this young man has built for himself says hood or gangbanger or whatever the PC term is today. I'm not saying that the shooting was justified, only one living person knows that for sure, but the lifestyle this young man choose is not very conducive to receiving the benefit of doubt. There should be NO parole for dealers or manufacturers of illegal drugs. This man shouldn't have been on the streets to start with.
I believe it was stated that Snyder had his hands in his pocket. This is something that should be questioned, If Snyder was coming towards the officer in this way could leave a person to believe he could be in imminent danger. The officer should have identified himself at this point.
Hands in his pockets???? Remember Thursday????.....who would run on ice with hands in their pockets!!!!!
The victim was going away from the agent, not toward him.
d'dmann: The witness stated the victim's hands were in his pocket before the agent even arrived.
If you take notice of the people around you that are standing in the cold than you will notice a lot of people put their hands in their pockets to protect them from the cold.
I like what Judge Judy states, "Don't pee on my leg & then tell me it's raining."
CabinGirl....hmmmmm one would think an educated agent would recognize someone with cold hands ..... if most everyone would have their hands in their pockets during the cold. And your analogy to a peeing dog??? Sucks!
JustSomeone .... thank you for reminding cabingirl of that fact!
All of you would benefit from scrolling down and reading KJT's posts, he obviously has knowledge of MDOC and Law Enforcement policy and procedure. I also work for MDOC and would like to say that unfortunately none of us will ever know exactly what happened there, because we weren't there! None should pass judgment until the proper authorities have an opportunity to complete their investigation. I will tell you a few facts:
1) A Fugitive Recovery Agent is not an easy job to obtain through DOC, they are heavily screened and subject to random drug testing.
2) All Agents ARE commissioned police officers, NOT bail bondsmen, and I have to be honest, I would rather be alone in a room with 50 offenders (dangerous or not) than alone in a room with 5 bail bondsmen.
3) The MDOC is very protective of EVERYONE's information, especially when there is an investigation going on. Once an employee or an offender is considered to be under investigation they are basically put on "gag order" not allowed to discuss any portion of the investigation. This is why the name of the agent hasn't been released YET.
I wasn't finished, but I got cut off!!!
4) Some of you seem to think this Agent is walking around with his head held high and feeling nothing, WRONG. He was immediately put on Administrative Leave, which basically means he is under house arrest, has to be at home and ready to report for questioning at any time, he also had to go immediately for drug testing and knows that if he can't justify his "shoot" his life as he knew it is over, loss of his job and maybe even time in prison with offenders that he arrested in the past. And if he DID make a mistake, he is going to have to live with that for the rest of his life too.
I am NOT justifying what happened to Zach, I can't, I wasn't there and neither were you, but you must stop your uneducated assaults on this Agent's character, I don't know the Agent but I DO know policy. Questions? Let me know...
Fugitive Recovery Agents, also known as bail enforcement agents and/or bounty hunters skip trace and bring back bail bond skips who fail to show up for their court hearings. In many areas of the country, this type of work is really booming and there are just not enough fugitive recovery agents trained to successfully carry out these types of assignments.
At the end of the day an unarmed, non-violent offender, who didn't physically harm the agent or anyone else was shot dead.
Those are facts, not assumptions.
We see the video on this same site of a woman who was beat by a person in law enforcement. Even people in law enforcement can use bad judgement or make wrong choices.
Thankfully, that woman is alive unlike this victim.
It's just not every day that someone in law enforcement shoots dead an unarmed, non-violent offender that hadn't attempted to physically harm them or anyone else.
Another story on this site shows a story of someone who escaped from prison I believe and had actually resisted arrest and was in on violent charges (correct me if I'm wrong because I might be).. that person is even alive.
Just something not right, that's what I know.
It's just a sad day when something like that can happen to someone and people can't recognize the injustice in it.
Some people say that had the victim not tried to run that he'd be alive and it's his own fault. Let us not kid ourselves here.. running didn't kill this young man. Someone shooting to kill, killed this young man.
There aren't excuses and nothing makes something like this alright.
To say that his running justifies the shooting isn't valid. To say that his past non-violent charges justifies it is not an excuse either. Neither of those alone are punishable by death.
It is like saying that woman in the video on this site deserved to be beat by law enforcement because she had done something that was against the law.
It just doesn't fly.
cabingirl,
Please shut up. The person under investigation here is NOT a "skip tracer", "bondsman" or "bail agent". He/she is a seasoned, commissioned, police officer who currently works for the Missouri Department of Corrections. He/she has plenty of years of training in dealing with ABSCONDERS and law violators from justice. He/she may have made an error in judgment and will have to pay for that error when the investigation is complete. Give it a REST...if all of you spent this much time arguing about every cop that made a mistake or every military officer that might have made a mistake we would have NO protection at all...again, please shut up until the investigation is complete, you don't know what you are talking about unless you were there.
Martin Luther King, jr.:
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly.
Justsomeone and cabingirl...you two need to either "hook up" or get REAL...neither one of you read my post. In the words of my good friend..."read and learn" unfortunately you both are making yourselves look like uneducated , irrational, idiots. In a situation like this, it does NO good to react emotionally until you have the facts, but I have come to the realization that most who are posting on this issue are NOT acting as rational human beings...you are re-acting in your uneducated manner that your parents have taught you. Stop for a moment and take a breath...and THINK...for yourself, for once!
The problem here is that you ASSume that I am not privy to information in which you are not.
You speak of general information regarding general things.. I speak from knowledge of THIS case.
I wouldn't feel as strongly as i do had I not known anymore details than what is written in these articles.
Justsomeone - JLH is misinformed. I did research. JLH, the attitude and the patience in your wordings are sad. You need Communications 101.
Justsomeone - JLH is misinformed. I did research. JLH, the attitude and the patience in your wordings are sad. You need Communications 101.
Your personal attacks speak volumes and are irrelevant.
Like I said before, you and cabingirl need to "hook up" and "GO AWAY" until this investigation is complete...I DO want to thank you for providing me me with a good "belly laugh" it's not often that we MDOC employees get that! Thank you!!! All of you need to give it a rest, let Zach's family have a rest while we hear what the outcome of the "Agent" investigation has to say..quit being such a "jerk wad".
Until you have the authority to dictate who posts and who does not, I'll stay and say as I please, but thanks for the concern ;)
Nice to know you people at the MDOC are busy surfing the net and not out shooting to kill unarmed offenders tonight ;)
We can rest safely this evening after all.
Obviously you have lost your mind, it's ok, your attorney will find a way to keep you from serving time along side the CRIMINALS that you are supporting!!!!
I understand that you're a little slow so I'll try to make this simple so you'll be able to follow.
Ready?
I do not support criminals. If I did I would be in support of the agent that committed an unjustified homocide.
Is that clear? I tried not to use too many two syllable words for you. I'm what you might call considerate like that.
JLH- You are very mentally abusive. First, you opinionate me as being uneducated. You are wrong. Second, you tell me to shut up, as if you are the only one allowed to opinionate feelings. Third, you tell me to hook up with someone and go away. You have a sick sense of humor. I am a mother! To tell me to 'hook up' with someone is low minded. For you to laugh about anything is sick. To use words like jerk wad, and then decide to judge someone else for their education is beyond me. If you want an opinion of your own thoughts then go have a conversation with yourself. No need to be here, and mentally abuse everyone else for having opinions or facts. You are not God. You are a person just like everyone else. Get off of your high horse and stop pretending to be perfected.
For the people that think this guy is bad due to tats and his myspace. You all need help. The tats maybe from his past and we have all made stupid choices from our past. The myspace is MYSPACE!!! PEOPLE PUT STUFF UP TO BE COOL OR WANTING SOMETHING. HE MAY HAVE WANTED TO BE RICH. THAT WOULD BE WHY HE PUT THAT STUFF UP. IT WAS WRONG FOR HIM TO GET SHOT!!!!! EVERYONE KNOWS IT TOO. JUST ADMITE IT.
JHL- You have issues. You need to get a life if all you want to do is put people down. You need to get over what cabingirl and justsomeone has to say. GET A LIFE AND GO BACK TO SCHOOL!!!!! YOU THE IDIOT NOT THEM. MAYBE YOU SHOULD JUST HOOK UP WITH SOMEONE!!!!!!
CABINGIRL AND JUSTSOMEONE. Keep saying what you have to say.
Ok, ok, apparently "I the idiot", whatever. I grow bored of your petty, uneducated crap, you don't really need to respond because I won't be back, unless you just want to "talk about me behind my back", that will make you all feel better, but somebody else needs to step up and remind you all of how close minded and grammatically incorrect you are. I OUTTA HERE.