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Speak Out 9/25/07

Tuesday, September 25, 2007

Tasering issues

I BELIEVE law officers should have the use of Taser guns, but many use them at the wrong time. We are told that we should pull over and stay in our cars, but if you don't know that it's truly an officer, we should drive to a well-lighted area. The problem then becomes that most officers lose their cool. In today's world I don't trust any officer I don't know. It is a shame that we have gotten to this point. I am not saying all officers are that way. I just don't trust them like I used to. I don't think Taser guns should be used by campus officers or security officers unless they have been through anger-management classes and taught when to use -- and when to stop using -- a Taser gun.

Secondhand smoke

TO THE person who wanted credible evidence that secondhand smoking is bad: Visit the American Lung Association Web site. In short, "Secondhand smoke has been classified by the EPA as a known cause of cancer in humans."

Teacher participation

I AM a mother of two children in Jackson schools. I view the online Parentlink daily. Today is the last day of the six-week grading period. What's the point of having Parentlink if the teachers are not going to keep it updated? Both of my children have at least one or two classes that have yet to have anything posted for that class since school started. I have e-mailed teachers and received promise to have information posted by the end of the week. That was three weeks ago and still nothing. Parentlink is useless if the teachers are not doing their part.

Center lane

I HAVE read numerous items in Speak Out about center lanes in Jackson being used to merge into traffic. I see this done all the time along Kingshighway and on U.S. 61 from Cape Girardeau to Jackson. It has created a lot of near-miss incidents from what I can see. I have nearly been hit head on by drivers trying to drive down the center turn lane (for whatever purpose) and also been nearly hit in the side by drivers trying to get up speed to merge into the fast lane. To the person who plans to do that, even if it's against the law, because it was convenient: Anarchy does not reign, I hope you get a ticket before you kill yourself or someone else due to your selfishness.

Not a stereotype

I FIND this sad. We are complaining about smokers and the effect on children, when only mere days ago 12,000 kids were sent home from school because of a hoax bomb threat in New Jersey. I find the bomb threat more important than the fact that someone puffed on a cigarette. Smoking is an addiction. Nonsmokers cannot understand this for some reason. I am a smoker, but I respect myself enough that I am trying to quit, I respect nonsmokers enough to not smoke in public places where you're breathing the same air. So don't lump me into the stereotypical smoker who throws butts in your yard or smokes in front of your children, because I make every effort to respect anyone I see. If the world could do that as a whole, things would be peachy, but I can see that it most certainly does not by reading Speak Out. Knock it off with the discrimination, stereotypes and acting like you yourself have no flaws.

No public smoking

I WISH Missouri would ban all smoking in public places. Smokers have cost many businesses to put in special ventilation which took from wages and profits. Individuals who want to smoke should only be allowed by law to do so in their car or house.

Receipt suggestions

IF YOU don't want a big receipt, throw it away. If you need the receipt but not the bulk, rip off the part you need off and throw away the rest. If your purchase is taking up the whole receipt, that means you bought a lot.

Patient driver

IN RESPONSE to the comment "Safer to merge" in which a driver said he would rather break the law by using the center lane to merge into traffic and receive a ticket than follow the law and cross the turn lane in Jackson: I believe the driver has mistaken the reason for the turn lane. It is there to avoid slowing traffic when making a left turn. If any questions need to be answered about any driving law, drivers should obtain a copy of the book given to student drivers. The laws regarding the turn lane exist to keep drivers safe by avoiding accidents. If our patience has degraded to the point of using the turn lane as a merge lane, endangering fellow members of our community, then we need to re-evaluate ourselves. Patience.


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Tasering Issues:

Someone once said, "Trust, but verify." If you see the cherry flashers pull over in to an area that would safest for the officer and one that you feel comfortable with. There are some hot headed cops out in the beat, but compared to the majority, just doing their job.

The use of force should be a direct reflection of what the situation could potentially worsen to. Try to stop it with minimal injury. I've been tased. It sucks, but it sure beats the methods from a couple decades ago; SHOUT, SHOW, SHOOT. Today, 99% of cops aren't Mel Gibson. They just want to get home too.

If you guys could, please put out a prayer for the safe return to a dear friend of mine heading to the sand box. Second trip. He volunteered. His family and I would appreciate it.

-- Posted by fajar154 on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 12:19 AM

Secondhand smoke:

I almost sided with you until you listed the EPA. The EPA is a ill program that has ran its course and should be dissolved. They are backed by the UN and every left-wing tree hunging nut class. I would trust their word as fast as I would DNR and they are as far light headed as they get.

-- Posted by freedom1776to2008 on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 6:24 AM

A prayer from all today would be appreciated for Kate Lipke.

Little Kate, daughter of Ashley and State Rep Scott Lipke, is not yet a week old but will be undergoing her first of three open heart surgeries at noon today at St Louis Childrens Hospital.

Thanks for taking time to do something that will really make a difference!

-- Posted by John in Jackson on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 6:58 AM

Maybe there should be a median installed on East Jackson Blvd from the Train depot to Center Junction therefore eliminating anyone using the center lane in an inappropriate manner. The newly widened portion of West Jackson Blvd. seems to be working well with its median and designated Uturn areas...though the in/out traffic isn't as great compared to the East.

-- Posted by QT-PIE on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 7:35 AM

Jackson Traffic rules:

Avoid Mini Vans at all cause.

Biggest truck has right away.

Come to a four way stop and wait, wait some more, and inch up when the the big truck waves at you.

Four cars in a row is a traffic jam.

Turns signals are optional.

Wave at any body you restled in highschool.

-- Posted by interesting on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 7:56 AM

Well since they did not print it I will restate something I sent in the other day:

Over the weekend I noticed a banner advertising a trucking school on the JR High Practice field. Didn't they just pass some sort of law that said one couldn't use banners on their own buisinesses (against the 1st Amendment) but somehow now it is ok to post one on publically funded land and structure (aka school property?) Since it is an advertisement, I say fine the advertiser...it has their phone number right on it. No need to call in Scooby Doo.

If it happens to be that someone in the school system is invloved with that company, then there needs to be even more discussions on proper use of public school use.

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 8:14 AM

fajar154,

I would say that the numbers of 'hot headed' cops are increasing. Every single day for the past year or so there has been a story about some cops somewhere using a taser inproperly and in some cases killing people with them. They taser children, elderly people, elderly people in wheelchairs even!

The big media is now paying attention with the John Kerry display and today there is another one where a drunk (I assume, didn't see the whole thing)lady was being tased overly. Now I know that some of that is subjective as we were not there, but I was trained as an SP in the Air Force and was a policeman at times when all of our regular base cops were out in the desert (first time around.) There are plenty of other non-lethal ways to handle someone rowdy that result in far fewer deaths. Police have always had some bad apples that really like the power trip (one does indeed feel the power walking around among averyone carrying a gun, I know) but today these types are being encouraged. They actually teach them that the following people are automatically suspect: gun owners, people who quote the Constitution, Christians, Arab or Muslim looking people. I have seen video that was taped right here in Missouri (KC area I think) where a FEMA representative was training local fire and police and said "Our forefathers were terrorists." Yes, I can back all this up so if you want links and video etc...just say so.

Summing up: cops are becoming more and more out of control and tasers should be banned. Police are here to protect and serve, not rule and control.

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 8:26 AM

I would like to point out that, happily, most cops around here still seem to be decent overall. We do have our bad apples as anywhere else, but at least it's not a majority.

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 8:27 AM

jumpinjehova-

The sign on the practice field is for Laidlaw. Laidlaw is the bus company for the school district so it is not just a trucking company. I do not know if it meets the standards set out by the city sign ordinance. I quit trying to decipher that a long time ago.

-- Posted by captainmysterious on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 9:35 AM

Oh, brother. You guys surely have been to another country and driven/seen how they drive? Chill. We're doing great.

-- Posted by Hawker on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 10:19 AM

Kate Tyer Lipke has her heart surgery at noon today. Please Pray Hard TODAY for her, she is a small little girl who needs all of our prayers. She has loving parents, grandparents, brothers, and lots of other friends and family, who love her and have been praying for her for months. Keep her and her family in your prayers.

-- Posted by youareabunchaspunks on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 11:00 AM

GreatLoverofDanes:

what does your comment have anything to do with speak out???

-- Posted by monochromatic on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 11:06 AM

>No Public Smoking,

Your comment is a textbook example of what I refer to as Bearded Spock Logic.

Sorry to break it to ya Bub, but smoking tobacco products is not only legal, but also a mammoth source of revenue for countless indispensable programs of redeming social value. Read this article published when 2007 was young to realize what happens when this income dries up...

www.semissourian.com/story/1189885.html

In reference to the mandatory air cleaning devices that buisnesses have been forced to install as a result of the evil filthflarven laden smoke greedily exhaled by happy tobacco consumers into the virtous viginial lungs of the righteous, pious, and (may I add) Extremely Clean no-smokers that in effect negatively affect wages and subsequently make babies born naked; (whew!) have a trip on the WWW and take a feable stab at some actual (ie: unbiased) research into the now defunct bar buisness in California since that groundbreaking State's public smoking ban.

Most of us pub patrons enjoy the smooth, refreshing vice of inhaling tobacco smoke while amusing our other senses with various dread vices like stout beer and loud rock 'n roll.

Why can't the No Fun Club go back to getting up early, quilting bees, voting, and watching Matlock?

-- Posted by Lumpy on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 11:39 AM

Well said Lumpy. Bonus points for using filthflarven.

On the sign, I only glanced at it really but it looked like it was a employment recruitment banner. Totally inappropriate for display on school property.

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 11:43 AM

Momochromatic:

Please be still! Why do you find it necessary

to be insensitive?A Prayer chain is something we all could use from time to time and perhaps every day!KEEP you insensitive

comments to yourself please.

I for one will be Praying for this little

girl and for the Soldier that is being sent into harms way and I will keep Praying for all who need it!My Wife included who is still hospitalized after 30 days.

JumpenJehova:I could not agree with you more

on the taser issue and power hungry cops.I

think every officer should be required to undergo several mental test each year to determine their mental state.Tasers are absolutely unnecessary and I consider them excessive force.This latest video of the woman(mother)being tasered even shows the Jerk

(police officer fat man) kicking her to the ground.I think he should be stripped naked and sprayed with water and then let the lady taser him a few times and not just on his chest!!!if you get my drift!

-- Posted by GREYWOLF on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 11:53 AM

I think that sums things up in one "lump sum"

Thanks Lumpy,your input hits the nail smack dab on the head.I visit Clali often.And the pub buisness is dead unless you hit the far out county bars that could care less about

ignorant laws.Its ok to get your butts(no pun intended)drunk drinking legal alcohol

but not ok to consume tobacco which is also a legal drug.If these goodie two shoes and prohibitionist who want tobacco banned would just stop and think about how much their taxes would be raised to compensate for the lost revenue that tobacco brings in, they would more then likely be still.

-- Posted by GREYWOLF on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 12:01 PM

For Kate Lipke, Family and Friends: You are in our hearts and prayers!

Greywolf Family and friends:

I hope the wife is doing well! My prayers out to you all as well!

-- Posted by pookiebear on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 12:37 PM

Mono...you must be athiest.

-- Posted by pookiebear on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 12:37 PM

Smoking Ban:

That's funny! About 20 years ago, my dad went into a LARGE Cape auto dealership, to buy two vehicles for two of my siblings, at one time. They wouldn't allow him to smoke in the showroom. He went to another large dealership, just next door, where they let him smoke. Needless to say, the salesman had a very profitable day when my dad and sisters drove off in two new vehicles. Betchya wouldn't have complained, that day, if you were a non-smoking salesperson!LOL!

-- Posted by pookiebear on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 12:43 PM

>pookiebear,

Is "atheist" a derogatory or flattering assertion in your interpretation?

Just so that you feel that you are not out on a limb, I will provide you with my account of "athiest"...

...one who believes that a mechanical alarm clock may be disassembled, but never put back together by means of placing the parts into a sealed Ziploc bag and throwing it into the air.

Faith, brother! Let's all say a prayer for Kate Tyer Lipke, Greywolf's wife, and...

-- Posted by Lumpy on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 12:55 PM

When it comes down to it, if you are following the law, cops won't mess with you. I know there are a few cops that take their power too far. Like the ones who were beat up in HS then became a cop so they can get power from their occupation. Ultimately they don't get respect for being a upstanding person, so they treat others like crap and have their badge to protect them. However, if you are not breaking the law....you probably won't have to worry about it. As far as cops not having a taser...Yeah that's a great idea. Instead of tasing a criminal, let's just shoot and kill em.

Ona a side note, it's funny how people will scream about not grouping all smokers as they are not all bad, but it's okay to group cops together because we know they are all dirty anyway.

-- Posted by Dr._Will_B._Inebreated on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 12:59 PM

I love this line of logic seen so often in speak out:

blah blah blah is worse than blah blah, therefore blah blah is ok and should be ignored.

blah blah blah blah

-- Posted by calypso12 on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 1:10 PM

Some of you will appreciate this little story:

compliments of Rev. Wendy Craig-Purcell, and am passing it along for the fun of it...

A man was stranded on a desert island for ten years. He kept sending up smoke signals but no one ever came. Finally a ship responded to his signal and the captain came ashore. When he saw three big buildings side by side, he asked the man what they were.

"That one on the left is my house," said the man.

"Why that's a fabulous house," said the captain, "What a great job you did building it. And what about the one in the middle. What's that?"

"That one there is my church," said the man.

"Beautiful, beautiful!" said the captain. "And what's that last one, the one on the right?"

"Oh," said the man. "That's the church I used to go to."

-- Posted by calypso12 on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 1:12 PM

Yomama: Thanks I needed a chuckle. Great story. Reminds me of people who used to smoke, use to drink, used to be a sinner, used to be fat, used to be a druggie or a used to be a ________. You get to name or insert it here.

-- Posted by cannedheat on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 1:34 PM

By the way I am an atheist because I believe only I am responsible for my actions. I like the mechanical clock thing.

-- Posted by cannedheat on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 1:37 PM

Greywolf: Wish the best for your wife's recovery, make it fast and painless.

Fajar154: Hope your friend makes a safe trip to and from and remains safe while there. Everyone here knows I don't support this Administration but do support the troops and there is no contradiction there.

-- Posted by cannedheat on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 1:43 PM

Also best wishes and my heart goes out to the Kate Lipke family. I have grandchildren and couldn't bear the thought of one of them in surgery. May they find happiness and relief in the coming hours, days, months and years.

-- Posted by cannedheat on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 1:47 PM

jumpinjehova:

Your comment about the sign at the high school reminded me of when they had the huge sign out front urging people to vote against stem cell research...

Which seems wrong to me...

Shouldn't our education system be promoting science and knowledge rather than backwards thinking christian mythology?

-- Posted by Tarantulas on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 1:52 PM

The problem is promoting any one thing on public school property...although posting something that was totally anti-science in front of an educational building is ironic.

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 1:59 PM

Zoie, you are right as long as you aren't doing anything bad, the cops shouldn't bother you. However that line of thinking just leads to people sticking their heads in the sand while great injustice is carried out. Same line of thinking that it's ok for the government to wiretap everyone since you have nothing to hide. It is just wrong, unconstitutional and unnecessary to do that. I also pointed out that most of our local police are not like the ones we have been discussing, but the people in the towns that are having the problems now probably recently said the same thing. It is a growing problem.

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 2:03 PM

JJ: I will have to admit when I was young I did believe if you had nothing to hide, then what was the harm. I learned later as I aged and hopefully got wiser the authorities were not that honest nor were they that caring. Many a person has gone to jail when the police, investigators, prosecutors and judges knew they were innocent, so the supposed checks and balances don't always work.

As far as smoking, I don't smoke but believe people have a right to their own vices as long as they don't step on my rights.

You are only allowed to put up banners to advertise a product if you know the right people otherwise it is against the law.

Where is MJB? I miss his passion and information even if I disagree a lot of the time. When you start to only listen to what you believe you then become a parrot to the spin meisters. MJB if you read this come back, even if you have to post under another name like a lot on here do.

-- Posted by cannedheat on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 2:21 PM

Tarantulas: I have a theory of why the sign opposing stem cell research was on the school yard. Think they were trying to get us to #1 in another area. We had beat out Michigan in the World Series {Detroit}, we had knocked off Michigan as the state with the city for the highest crime rate {Detroit vs St. Louis}, and we were just trying to beat out Kansas as the laughing stock of the United States.

-- Posted by cannedheat on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 2:27 PM

"I love this line of logic seen so often in speak out:

blah blah blah is worse than blah blah, therefore blah blah is ok and should be ignored.

blah blah blah blah"

I'm thinking you may be indeed refering to my own Speak Out with this comment.

I never said that smoking was worse than bomb threats, or vice versa, but honestly, in my own personal opinon, I would rather see someone near my child with a cigarette, rather than see them near my child with a bomb. That's the analogy I was trying to make.

Everyone's so concerned with the small things, they don't see the big picture. I'd be a little more ticked at an idiot who brought a gun or bomb to school, then puffed on a cigarette in front of my kid, but maybe you feel differently when it comes to those kinds of things?

I never said ignore smoking, I simply said that people need to quit lumping everyone into one big group that all do the same thing and disrespect everyone, when that is not the case. There are actually respectful people in this world, and I'm one of them. I don't smoke around nonsmokers, period. I don't smoke in public places, period.

While we're so busy complaining about petty things, there are bigger and more dangerous things happening. Hoax or not, a bomb threat reminds me of the school shootings, Virgina Tech, Columbia High School and countless other situations where kids died in terror. That worries me a bit more than tobacco.

-- Posted by AngelicEvil on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 3:06 PM

I'd love to see a sea of red shirts holding anti-war signs. Then maybe people would finally unterstand that being anti-war is not the same as not supporting our troops. I'd say that being anti-war is the most supportive thing for our troops: don't get anymore killed.

Our troops signed up to protect and defend this country and the Constitution, not to defend the policies of a fundamentalist who wants to 'stabilize' the region to obtain control of the oil exports.

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 3:53 PM

I feel very confident in the following statement: An OVERWHELMING majority of the troops deployed in Iraq are just fine with receiving the word that we want them to come home. The only people wishing they were home more are themselves.

The ones who don't understand the difference between wanting them to come home and not supporting them are the ones mentally challenged enough to want to stay.

I saw a poll recently that 2/3s of our military over there thought they were there to punish Saddam Hussein for his part in 9/11. This wasn't on some liberal anti-war site...it was printed in Stars and Stripes and done by them.

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 4:12 PM

Oops it was 85% thought it was Saddam Hussein and 9/11 my bad. It was a Zogby poll. To placate MJB's fans, heres the link

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?sect...

ticle=34538&archive=true

Ugh...have to copy and paste it into your browsers...too long

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 4:22 PM

Indeed, I was in the Air Force during the first Gulf War (and then some)

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 4:23 PM

No jumping. I was an avionics/computer systems/sometimes Security Police guy. Wore a lot of hats. I am not necessarily much better today, but I am not heavily medicated like yesterday, thanks for asking.

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 4:30 PM

Here is another link in honor of MJB, and on topic too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5Pi7BVGy...

-- Posted by Lumpy on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 4:32 PM

Here is an idea - everyone who supports Republicans should wear Red on Fridays since Red is the Republican color. Wait, someone else said to wear red if you are in favor of bringing our troops home. What should we do? Perhaps the best thing to do is to make sure your and everyone else's statement is brought about by a conscious decision to do something out of the ordinary. That way, when someone looks at you, they know what you are supporting instead of thinking you wore red because that was the only thing left in your closet clean. Isn't this what ribbons are supposed to accomplish?

-- Posted by cal on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 4:36 PM

Hey Lumpy, you discovered NeoCon porn!

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 4:48 PM

The biggest thing I look at when someone else is trying to convince me of something is to see how they live their life. Maybe that is why I don't believe in global warming because those that are telling me it is a problem consume more energy on their many airplane flights in a month than I do in 3 years.

The link below discusses the effects cigarettes have on our environment. Sounds like a very important thing to eliminate if I was a global warming freak but Mr. Gore, the saviour hasn't said a word about it.

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/02/...

You may not think your smoking outdoors or in your own home is effecting me but really it already has, even before you throw your money down to buy that pack.

-- Posted by cal on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 4:58 PM

Cannedheat: I believe in God....I KNOW I am responsible for my own actions. It just seemed to me, like I believe the way that Greywolf took it, as MONO thought that this is not the place for a request for prayers. A lot of people go nuts here over this "conspiracy" crap, why does a little prayer request hurt???????????

-- Posted by pookiebear on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 5:14 PM

I DO NOT miss MJB!! Maybe they sent him to Farmington?????????

-- Posted by pookiebear on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 5:16 PM

Don't worry, once Hillary wins and fires up (no pun intended) the mandatory health care for everyone, smoking will be totally outlawed. That means you will then be able to get cigarettes from whoever you buy pot from now at a much higer cost but without the taxes going in to fund the health care.

I am predicting now that Hillary will win the presidency. The war will continue and the North American Union plan will go ahead, thereby letting us draft Mexicans to fight in Iraq. I totally support (and will continue to) Ron Paul for president, but realistically, Hillary already has it in the bag, reguardless if she receives the most votes or not, ala Bush.

The two party system is fake!

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 5:21 PM

If one supports the Republicans, he should wear a red shirt? FOR SALE: One red shirt, slightly used but will never be worn again by owner. Price? Free!

-- Posted by iago on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 5:35 PM

Hilleco: No need to apologize to me. I know your stance as you know mine. As I have stated before, I think everyone should have health care the same as anyone else. Now having said that, I would also like to see a free market system that was free, our Republic that was a true Republic and welfare on all levels banished. Will it happen? No. Therefore, if we can give corporations tons of money, farmers tons of money, Israel tons of money, Bush and his cronies tons of money to secure the oil resources of other countries, and tons of money to countries that hate us, we can afford to provide health care to Americans. The other problem is discrimination in health care. This would also have to be addressed.

I would wear red any day to support our troops but afraid it would be spun to mean supporting the Administration. Remember back few years ago when the gay and lesbian organization on SEMO wanted everyone who supported the organization to wear jeans. Most college kids wear jeans so the books were cooked there like they would be if we wore red to support the troops.

Now before you get in a tizzy about what I said about the gay and lesbian organization, look at my comments from posts past. I support anyones right to any sexual orientation they wish. I find it disheartening to still have discrimination on so many fronts in the year 2007.

-- Posted by cannedheat on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 5:49 PM

Pookie Bear: What did or do you find offensive with MJB? Would you prefer I not post either?

-- Posted by cannedheat on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 5:51 PM

Pookiebear:

My Friend Cannedheat is as he says, an Atheist.He also has a good heart.He cares

about folks like us.I know he (in our opinion)is lost but like me(an atheist until

12 years ago)he may find his way out of the wilderness.Even if he does not he will always

be a brother even if he and I do not agree on every issue we discuss here.

-- Posted by GREYWOLF on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 5:56 PM

Hilleco;

I could use your opinion(howing how well you know economics)on the fallout we might expect from all those subprime loans that the lending companies dished out for several years?Any comment from you would be welcome.

-- Posted by GREYWOLF on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 5:59 PM

Greywolf: Thanks. People may never understand how we can be brothers and disagree, but it is called respect.

Hilleco: I fear you are correct in your assessment. One can only hope the country will wake up to Ron Paul.

-- Posted by cannedheat on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 6:05 PM

Greywolf: I agree that we are all brothers and sisters. I know and understand that everyone has different beliefs. And one person will never agree, totally, with everything another person may think. That's why I love the fact that we are all entitled to our own opinion. That's what does make life wonderful! I just thought it was an insensitive remark for Mono to make. I have a friend, that I grew-up with, that just had a 1 lb 7 oz baby and he has been in the hospital for a few weeks. Asking someone to say prayers, to whomever or whatever they may pray to, or just think a positive thought in their head, wishing them well, is not a negative thing. The people, asking for the prayers, did not demand it from whomever reads these posts...they just asked. If Mono has read in the past, especially the conspiracy theories posted daily, then Mono would see that people don't always post things that were in speak-out that day. BTW....sorry so long. Have a great night you all!

-- Posted by pookiebear on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 8:16 PM

Pookie Bear: I agree with you on what you just said. No one has the right to force anyone to do anything. Even if I don't believe the same as you I respect your right to your belief. I do wish for a positive outcome for Greywolfs wife, Kate Lipke, and for all our troops going to, over in, or coming from Iraq. Have a great evening and hope to see all here tomorrow.

-- Posted by cannedheat on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 8:33 PM

Thanks Hilleco for your input.I must agree.

The first quarter of 08 may tell the tale.

I believe more lending institutions will go belly up the home market will plummet and

Lord help us if some terrorist does something terrible to us in the mean time!

I am sure there is more to come on this subject.Sorry for the slow response had to visit wife in Hospital.She should be home

within a few days.

\\\

-- Posted by GREYWOLF on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 9:16 PM

I love you all's views on Iraq. Have you all been there? Have you seen the way that Saddam's Guard's treated the people who spoke out against him? Have you ever spoken to the Iraqi men who had their hands chopped off? Have you talked to the Iraqi people who had their water and electricity cut off by him? You all need to remember, Hitler didn't invade the United States, but we saw an evil person commiting attrocities against people and we didn't sit on our ***** then either.

-- Posted by perryjb65 on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 9:26 PM

Nick Charles:

Late last night I read some of your discusion concerning the Civil war.

Just a bit of input from the Greywolf.

I read somewhere seems like years ago

that When President Lincoln met Harriet

Beecher Stowe for the first time he

commented "so here is the woman who started this war".Not an exact quote although I think its close.Of course she wrote "uncle Toms Cabin".This book was very poular among the Northern States and banned in the South.

Because of the huge out cry from the public after reading the stories of how slaves were being treated it seems it added much fuel to a fire already smoking.Just a bit of history from a South Carolina born and raised Southerner now living in the great State of Missouri.

-- Posted by GREYWOLF on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 9:26 PM

If the ban smoking they need to ban wine also ! See how many still want to ban smoking?

-- Posted by zeroit on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 9:40 PM

perryjb,

Sorry to disagree, but America sat on it's collective hands in reguard to Hitler for over 5 years. And the only reason the US joined in the war was because Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. The US declared war on Japan. Germany and Italy were allies of Japan, so by declareing war on Japan we were at war with Italy and Germany. A little history lesson might help your arguments in the future.

-- Posted by notsureitssafeinhere on Tue, Sep 25, 2007, at 10:48 PM

jumpinjehova, Yeah I know this is a late response but I had a long day yesterday and this was the first chance I had to respond. I understand your reasoning about out of site out of mind, but that is not what I meant in regard to the taser issue. In all aspects of life in America today we need to be aware and alert, but in Cape today (like you said) we are not likely to experience too much police bullying.

You brought up a good point though, kind of like the attitute I believe most anti-war supporters have today. If we are just nice to those that hate us, gosh darnit they will just leave us alone. That line of thinking will get us killed.

-- Posted by Dr._Will_B._Inebreated on Wed, Sep 26, 2007, at 6:09 AM

Zoie,

I do not mean to pull troops out and talk nice to the men who do want to kill us and it will all be ok. That does not mean that I want the US to be nation building or launching preemptive wars with people that disagree with us. This is not a new theory, not just the Bushs' pet project. We (the West, but the US in particular) have spent the past 50 years trying to control that area of the world. We have supported people that admittedly hate our way of life. Remember when we attacked Afghanistan to rid the place of the Taliban? We had, all the way up until August of 2001, supported the Taliban government there in hopes to stabilize the country enough to build a pipeline through it. We built and armed the Mujadhadeen (probably spelled it wrong) of which Osama binLaden was a chief commander.

Basically do you know why 'they' want to kill us? It's not that they 'hate our freedoms' or are 'evil radical Muslims.' They want us to butt the hell out of their business! We support you one week, bomb you the next. Whatever is convienent to our exploitation of the oil fields. Most of the hijackers on 9/11 were Saudi Arabian. The money to fund them flowed from Saudi controlled (and American laundered) charities. All of the 9/11 evidence leads back to Saudi Arabia. Did we do anything at all to them? No one even discussed them in that way on an official level. That's because Saudi Arabia has a decent sized chunk of our economy in their hands and they also have been our longest pupp, I mean ally in the region, despite their anger towards our intervention and control.

Our troops should be used to DEFEND our country. Not to control other countrys. Not to implement oil negotiations. Not to die on foriegn soil that was not threatening us. Bring them home, close the borders and keep our noses out of every one else's business. I know it sounds naive and simplistic, but decades of doing the opposite hasn't gotten us much good now has it? So no, talking nice to men who want to kill us is not going to work. Maybe we should stop ENCOURAGING them to want to kill us.

*Note, I of course personally believe that the reason we didn't go after Saudi Arabia is that we are the ones who orchestrated the whole 9/11 deal, but if they want to keep their illusion going, you do have to ask why they don't even have the illusion of going after the 'guilty' party.

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Wed, Sep 26, 2007, at 8:13 AM

"April 2003

A poll conducted by the Washington Post and ABC News found that 72% of Americans supported the Iraq War, despite finding no evidence of chemical or biological weapons"

I guess Mustard gas doesn't count as a WMD? Love to see that one. Since there was a football field sized area full of 55 gallon drums of that crap found outside of Samaerra (Northwest of Tikkrit). Never heard anything about that one.

Couple EOD guys had to get treated for nerve agent exposure in Baghdad (April or May 04).

There are no WMDs though. Thats right, I don't have the works cited...give me a few.

Hey Zoe!!

-- Posted by fajar154 on Wed, Sep 26, 2007, at 8:25 AM

where's the 26th page?

-- Posted by fajar154 on Wed, Sep 26, 2007, at 8:26 AM

How about that article about the county wanting to use chip-and-seal paving? Sounds like a really bad way to use the taxpayers money. Get online and read the comments people wrote about chip-and-seal projects. Glad to hear no contractors bid on the job. Smart people. Co. Road & Advisory Board and Co. Commissioners, take a drive on the chip-and-seal roads in Perry Co. Come to the right conclusion---that is not good use of the taxpayers money. Don't go "cheaper" to try to save money, do it right the first time. Spare us the potholes and broken up road beds.

-- Posted by genesis on Wed, Sep 26, 2007, at 8:55 AM

How about that article about the county wanting to use chip-and-seal paving? Sounds like a really bad way to use the taxpayers money. Get online and read the comments people wrote about chip-and-seal projects. Glad to hear no contractors bid on the job. Smart people. Co. Road & Advisory Board and Co. Commissioners, take a drive on the chip-and-seal roads in Perry Co. Come to the right conclusion---that is not good use of the taxpayers money. Don't go "cheaper" to try to save money, do it right the first time. Spare us the potholes and broken up road beds.

-- Posted by genesis on Wed, Sep 26, 2007, at 8:55 AM

Goofy idea here. Wonder what would happen i...?

A presidential canidate could promise all military personnel a pardon if they stopped fighting in Iraq. If the majority of our Media is correctly saying our troops do not want to fight and our Country's citizens do not want them over there, then this canidate will win for sure. Also, this canidate would immediately put an end to the Iraq war because no one would be willing to fight and the military would be forced to send them back.

-- Posted by cal on Wed, Sep 26, 2007, at 9:40 AM

What's up Farjar,

Jumpinjahova, come on man you don't honestly think 9-11 was US planned do you? You are just dropping a MJB line since he is not here...right? You have a few good points, not saying that I agree with you but you do have a few valid point (Closing the borders) but you have to have an opinion not quoted by Michael Moore.

-- Posted by Dr._Will_B._Inebreated on Wed, Sep 26, 2007, at 9:50 AM

The reason the mustard gas didnt receive a ton of press is the source they purchased it from: us.

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Wed, Sep 26, 2007, at 9:59 AM

No, I have been researching and seeking answers to 9/11 well before I ever saw an MJB post, or Micheal Moore made his movie. I personally do not agree with a lot of Micheal Moore's ideas.

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Wed, Sep 26, 2007, at 10:01 AM

Love Politics:

What is a Military Pardon?

Why would ANYONE in the military need a pardon?You need to explain that to this old vet!

-- Posted by GREYWOLF on Wed, Sep 26, 2007, at 10:24 AM

He means non-prosecution of deserters I believe. Meaning anyone wanting to desert could and not get in trouble. It would be a nice wake up call , but a dangerous precedent to set.

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Wed, Sep 26, 2007, at 11:01 AM

If our troops really don't want to be in IRAQ, it would be easy for them to refuse to fight if their punishment was pardoned. The punishment brought against them would be pardoned by a Democrat, say Hillary Clinton if she won the presidnecy. She would do this to immediately put an end to the war. Something similar to draft dodgers of the Vietnam War.

If they do not stop fighting and do not refuse to go into IRAQ, then the Dems idea of our military is wrong and should not be president anyway.

Dems and mass media love to paint a picture of a failling IRAQ saying our own military does not even want to be there. This gives them a chance to put their reputation where their mouth is. They are in control of Congress yet they have not done anything they said they were going to do about this war.

-- Posted by cal on Wed, Sep 26, 2007, at 11:08 AM

If our troops really don't want to be in IRAQ, it would be easy for them to refuse to fight if their punishment was pardoned. The punishment brought against them would be pardoned by a Democrat, say Hillary Clinton if she won the presidnecy. She would do this to immediately put an end to the war. Something similar to draft dodgers of the Vietnam War.

If they do not stop fighting and do not refuse to go into IRAQ, then the Dems idea of our military is wrong and should not be president anyway.

Dems and mass media love to paint a picture of a failling IRAQ saying our own military does not even want to be there. This gives them a chance to put their reputation where their mouth is. They are in control of Congress yet they have not done anything they said they were going to do about this war.

-- Posted by cal on Wed, Sep 26, 2007, at 11:08 AM

I'm late to the discussion on slavery, but Lincoln did NOT free all the slaves! The Emancipation Proclomation freed the slaves that were south of the Mason-Dixon Line. Slave to the north were not freed. Some people will say there were no slaves in the north, but that is not true.

-- Posted by SEMOfan80 on Wed, Sep 26, 2007, at 11:12 AM

fajar154: "I guess Mustard gas doesn't count as a WMD? Love to see that one. Since there was a football field sized area full of 55 gallon drums of that crap found outside of Samaerra (Northwest of Tikkrit). Never heard anything about that one."

Mustard Gas is 120+ year old technology. If thats a good excuse for an invasion you'd need to invade virtually every tinpot dictator in the world. Heck, any decent high school chemistry student ought to be able to whip up a batch in an hour or two.

It's also not a weapon of "mass destruction" since it's not very easy to kill anybody with it (less than 1% lethal to targets), and it's more difficult to disperse than most nerve gases or other more modern chemical weapons. It's primary use is to cause panic and chaos, not to kill large numbers of people.

Chlorine is at least as dangerous as mustard gas if not MORE dangerous. The US has been giving large quantities of chlorine to the Iraqis... gotta keep the water supply clean you know.

-- Posted by Nil on Wed, Sep 26, 2007, at 11:24 AM

Ok, because there are worse things out there in our world than smoking, we shouldn't talk about litter and smoking here? HUH? Since when does it have to be a global issue to be submitted to Speak out? Remember sidewalks, doggy dew at the fair, stoplights, turn lanes, rude drivers, student's recess? Why didn't anyone complain about those being trivial and say, I'd rather have a doggy dew on my shoe than a bomb?

We may not be able to take a bomb out the hand of someone by talking about it here, but if one person will take the cigarette our their hand because of what someone says, then isn't it worth a few lines? Not the it will really change anyone's mind what is said here, but just maybe if they had been thinking about quiting, they'll go ahead.

By the way, I KNOW that not everyone that smokes is inconsiderate. I never said they were. I never said I wanted to BAN smoking. I just asked people to put their cigarettes in the trash. You must have me confused with someone else.

It's great that there are so many considerate smokers. I guess those that throw out their butts and blow smoke in your face don't read or comment on speakout. Too bad.

-- Posted by calypso12 on Wed, Sep 26, 2007, at 1:25 PM

The U.S. military does not prosecute deserters anymore. Didn't they stop that in 1972? Anyway I am not sure about the date would have to ask George W.. He would know.

-- Posted by cannedheat on Wed, Sep 26, 2007, at 4:10 PM

Attention to anti-war persons, specifically Democrats.

I really hope that you understand that people running for the Presidential nomination are NOT anti-war. Remember when we (collectivley as a nation) elected mostly Democrats to the congress last year? How much actual progress has been made towards ending the war? Just about none.

All the leading runners in both parties support continuing the war indefinently. Hillary, Rommney, Edwards, Guiliani, Obama, Thompson?

All pro-war.

With the exceptions of Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich and Mike Gravel, no potential nominees are going to do anything but further the war effort, expand it to Iran and further clamp down on American citizens' rights.

It's a rigged game.

I will go on record today (like I did yesterday) as saying Hillary will be our next president. Whether or not she wins the actual election, she will win the election, ala Bush. The machine is behind her. Bush is advising her. Fox News is advising her. She is getting the media to pull disparraging articles by threatening 'access cutoff.'

Under Hillary, the war will continue. It will expand. Even more socialist programs will come to be. Healthcare, gun ownership, education, North American Union.

Support candidates that actually support the American people, not the corporations, not other countries, not the police state.

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Wed, Sep 26, 2007, at 4:41 PM

Ok, time for my two cents on the smoking issue. I smoke, I have tried to quit, but I really don't want to. There I said it. I would prefer to kill myself with smoking then quit. Freely admit that. I don't smoke in my home and don't smoke anywhere I am not allowed to. But if you really want to ban me from smoking outside in my yard or on the street, then make smoking illegal. But the local, state, and federal government won't do that. They make too much money on the tax they receive from every pack sold. And I am originally from Southern California, so I know the hesterical antics of the non smoking crowd when it comes to banning smoking. But again, they are not willing to forgo the tax money on the selling of cigs and make them illegal. Oh, and I pay my health insurance premiums so don't say the tax it paying for my healthcare because it is not.

Respectfully,

-- Posted by notsureitssafeinhere on Wed, Sep 26, 2007, at 4:48 PM

Mr Jumpn,

Wow, I have heard for a long time how the Democratic controlled congress isn't doing anything. All actions to correct issues that have passed congress has gotten Veto'd by President Bush. The majority held by Dems in Congress is not a large enough majority to counter the Veto. So what exactly do you want them to do?? Let me put it this way, there are 11 people in my office. Six (6) employees want a raise (assumeing it can be voted on, bare with me), Five (5) employees don't. The boss can nix the raise on first attempt, but if seven (7) employees over ride his nixing then we get the raise. But since only 6 vote for the raise we don't have the 7 we need so no raise. So according to you, because 6 of us 11 said we would get us a raise and we have the majority, we didn't try????

Just checking, and thanks.

-- Posted by notsureitssafeinhere on Wed, Sep 26, 2007, at 4:57 PM

When Nancy Pelosi came on and said 'impeachment is off the table' even before the elections, then no, they are not doing what they were elected to do.

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Wed, Sep 26, 2007, at 5:03 PM

JJ: I am for Ron Paul or Dennis Kucinich. But I would prefer to have health care for all than to have my taxes spent to build free hospitals and provide free health care to other nations. One aim in the rebuilding of Iraq is to provide free health care to the entire populace. If we can afford corporate welfare, welfare for farmers, welfare for other countries then by golly we can afford health care for our children and parents. And yes I think Bush should be impeached.

-- Posted by cannedheat on Wed, Sep 26, 2007, at 5:09 PM

cannedheat,

I too think that we could afford healthcare for everyone (and should) if we used our money with different priorities than now. I'd say beware the Hillary mandatory health care with (even more) enforced innoculations and mandated health care. Mercury and worse in the vaccinations and so forth. Signing up for health care that is avaliable and not government mandated courses of treatment is the way to go, not HEALTH NAZIS like Hillary (and Edwards too apparently) want.

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Wed, Sep 26, 2007, at 5:16 PM

I am so glad to finally read some speak out comments from some smokers that have some respect. I too am a smoker and I too have respect for other people, I don't smoke in places that I'm not allowed (which seems to be anywhere anymore), I don't smoke around children, and I try not to smoke in area's where the majority is not smoking. I also agree with the fact that the government will not make smoking illegal because of the tax money it generates. Case in point...everytime they raise taxes, cigs are the first to get it!

-- Posted by lilmisangel on Fri, Sep 28, 2007, at 4:25 PM


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