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Speak Out 9/13/07

Thursday, September 13, 2007

Making a difference

AS A social worker who works closely with low-income youths and families, along with being a mother of two teens, I continue to hear the criticism from many of how our world is turning out: how bad the youths are, how low-income individuals should get a job. What right do you have to complain? What have you done to make a difference, to give back, to bring forth change? "You have no right to complain if you're not willing to help with making a change" is my favorite quote. If you have done nothing to help with the issues you're complaining about, you have no right to complain. Get off your high horse. Roll up your sleeves and begin asking, "How can I help to make a difference?"

Hard-working farmers

THE COMMENT regarding the poor farmer and the new equipment was obviously a sarcastic one. I am of the opinion that if a farmer's grain and livestock were sold to a market where the government wasn't making sure food was kept cheap, the farmer would probably be better off. We can never know the true price grain and cattle would bring so long as the government tries to keep food cheap for everyone. I don't want to take the chance and let what is produced bring the price that it would in a real open market. Many would starve. The farmers might end up with even bigger combines and equipment, and the person who made the comment about farm subsidies might not be able to afford to feed himself. I know farmers who get subsidies. They still work harder, sweat more and work longer days than most other business owners I know. They'd work hard whether they got subsidies or not. Not many family farmers can live off the subsidies they receive, and they don't pay off equipment.

Custody justice

CAN SOMEBODY please explain why child-support and custody laws are so worthless in Missouri? How can a father not pay a dime of child support and it has no effect on his visitation rights? I am not granted this luxury as a mother. If I were not willing to spend any of my income on taking care of my child, the state would most likely end up taking her from me. Also, noncustodial parents can skip out for as long as they like with no explanation. When they decide to show back up, their visitation rights cannot legally be denied by the custodial parent. Where is the justice in our system?

Subsidy reality

DON'T BE untruthful with the Speak Out readership. Businesses feed at the public trough in the form of subsidies of one kind or another just as much as farmers do. Socialism for the wealthy is an accepted way of life in America. Sadly, subsidies for those most in need are still opposed by most.

Festival blues

RIVER CITY Music Festival? Ha! I went Friday night. No Tunes at Twilight, No fireworks, No bands, Nothing but heartbreak. There is such a thing as tents. If festival organizers thought the weather could be an issue, they should have planned for it. Get it together or forget it.

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What is your beef with local musicians? Cape has some extremely talented regional artists, some nationally known talent was brought in for this, and I'm curious as to what your objective is. Even before the festival you were making derogatory comments about the weekend's activities. Why?

Just curious...

-- Posted by capeeats on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 6:58 AM

Ok since we were asked to talk about something else (aliens were suggested...par for the course I guess)

heres the Conspiracy of the Day (tm)

I'll get the ball rolling.

April 19, 1995

Oklahoma City

A Ryder truck loaded with 4800 lbs of explosives blows up the Arthur P Murrah Federal Building. 169 killed, including several children in a daycare in the building.

Many reports have the ATF neing tipped off, and waiting down the street in response gear before the bomb went off. Hours of videotape have not been released that shows the John Doe II, described as a Middle Eastern looking man. Evidence points to a conspiracy in Elohim City, a white supremacist compound in Ok. It has been suggested that the Iraqi Republican Guard was involved, let into the states by Clinton and Reno. Many threads of a conspiracy here, bigger than the official 2 man conspiracy.

The outcome, 1 man put to death, 1 in prison for life and the demonization of militia groups and gun owners, and to a lesser extent, Christians.


-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 7:31 AM

Kudos to the author of "Making a Difference", one thing to always keep in mind is it is always easier to simply complain and sit there waving a finger than to get out and help. There are many excellent programs, right here in Cape, that individuals can join or support with a simple donation of time or money(Boys and Girls Club comes to mind among many others).

-- Posted by Cape Tape on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 8:43 AM

CUSTODY JUSTICE: Can someone please explain to me why a mother can keep a child from a father that has always faithfully honered his child support obligation??? All the noncustodial fathers I know pay their child support. We have no choice in the matter. We either pay it or it is withheld from our wages. What about the noncustodial mothers that get by without paying child support. I would bet the percentage of noncustodial mothers that are able and don't pay child support is a lot higher than the percentage of men. Why is this??? I get so sick of hearing all the BOO HOO HOOING from women. I know some men fall through the cracks but this wonderful system we have always seems to come after the men that try to work and try to do whats right.

-- Posted by lance623 on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 8:52 AM

Custody Justice:

Boy have you hit the nail on the head. Judges around here feel that both parents should play and equal part in a child's life. Bull.....I am a divorced mother and even though my child's support is paid, it is not paid willingly but instead taken from the father's pay check because he refuses to pay it on his own. On top of that he and his wife (my child's wicked stepmother) are very manipulative where our child is concerned and refuse to make the child follow rules because they say they hate to do that because they only see the child 10 days a month. I say that 10 days is to much. If you can't act like a responsible person and take care of your own then you should walk away. I also have a problem with the judges who are to stupid apparently to see what these types of people are doing continue to give them more rights..I guess they don't care because it isn't the judge's family they are screwing with.

-- Posted by not_important on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 9:34 AM

Mr. Ballou, I am disapointed in your assessment of the $1,000 toilet seats and hammers. Government realist and conspiracy theorist that you are should point you to the fact that our government did not actually pay $1,000 for a hammer. Yes, on paper they did. However, the monetary difference between the actual price of the hammer and the $1,000 becomes funneled through the CIA, Military, and other Government Agencies for covert operations.

-- Posted by cal on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 9:40 AM

In response to "Festival Blues" .... The only thing you had to do was come back on Saturday night. Go to Breakaways, drop $3 to get in. Listen to Warchalking. Get blown away by Velvet Friend.

This is coming from a guy who didn't care about the Festival. I sort of dreaded going, but I had a ton of fun!

-- Posted by cjwalker on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 10:01 AM

When you start to complain about farmers, take a look at the clothes on your back. If it has cotton in it, then it may have come out of my dad or brother's fields. I may have been in that field helping them pick it. You may end-up wearing the cotton we pick today. So, quit complaining about farmers! Do you want to walk around naked? I sure don't want to see that!

-- Posted by pookiebear on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 10:13 AM

Subsidy reality:

Everyone cries foul of Socialist ideals because the rich who benefit most have programed the poor to appose the tool of their own ascension.

-- Posted by Tarantulas on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 10:28 AM

If the government is holding farmers back, by making sure food is affordable, then imagine how much food would cost if the corporate farms (which constitute most of the goods at market) were able to charge what they want to. Then they would charge exorbitant prices and still receive the corporate welfare they are getting.

It should be either an 'all in' government controlled industry or total hands off. Either way, the big losers would be the small family farmers and the consumers in the US.

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 11:25 AM

The bad thing is that there are dead-beat-dads and crappy mothers out there. There are about 1/2 divorced families that get along and deal with custody issues. HOWEVER, then you have the other 1/2 which is divided up into really bad mother and fathers.

There are some fathers who never see their kid and when they do, all they can do is say how awful the mother is. God forbid there's a step-mother involved, because that just gets AWFUL. The step-mother can look at the child and only see the previous relationship that her husband had been in; all she can see is the mother. This makes it worse on the kids.

Then you have these AWFUL mothers who brain-wash their kids into thinking that Daddy's a heathen. All the mother does is use the kid a weapon against her ex. She tries to rape the man for child support, and then won't let him see his kid.

There are both kinds of bad parents out there, married or divorced. I am personally sick and tired about it never being about the children's well being.

However, there are those divorced parents who (even if the other parent is a crappy parent) always comes through no matter what.

-- Posted by foodie on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 11:44 AM

re farm subsidies

did you know that the food stamp moneys are included in the farm subsidy bill...the farmers don't get much if any of the so called "farm welfare." The individual small family farm is the one that is being run out of business...just wait until the family farm is gone and the large corporate farms are in control of your food supply...then you will have reason to cry...

Oh yes, all that fancy equipment just tells you that the farmer is likely saddled with a big debt...

re:child support etc.

On the subject of divorces and custody...the fathers get taken to the cleaners as much or more than the mothers...i know some fathers who are living on the edge of poverty because of their support payments and getting stuck with the ex wife's credit card bills...(she filed bankruptcy) now she has a new car etc. and can take the kids to concerts but he is just trying to keep his head above water and survive...

it is sad that there cannot be more equitable settlements...so that neither party has to live a life of hardship...

this would also ease the shock of family disintegration on the children who are the real innocent victims of the inability two adults to honor their promises...

-- Posted by walela on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 12:45 PM

Anyone checked the price of milk recently?

-- Posted by Tarantulas on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 12:46 PM

The problem with divorced Parents,custody issues and Child support is really pretty

simple.When you say "I do" until death do you part then thats exactly what needs to happen!Otherwise don't get married and have Children.Don't blame the Judges and don't blame the ex-spouse because you have no one

to blame but yourselves.Im sick and tired of married couples bringing Children in to this world and then getting upset at the system when they decide that they no longer like each other.If the decision is made to get a divorce then be prepared to suffer the consequences of your mistake!

-- Posted by GREYWOLF on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 2:26 PM

Again I find myself saying to all of you who

are so upset over welfare to gripe about something more important.Lets gripe about the multi billion dollars we give to these third world Countries.This money is most often taken by corrupt Government officials who keep it for their own agenda and don't give a **** about their citizens.If we changed our foriegn policies in this Country and kept the money here at home perhaps then we could solve most of the social issues we deal with everyday!

-- Posted by GREYWOLF on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 3:25 PM

I am all for that Greywolf.

This isn't specifically 'our' money but did you know that $12 billon cash (printed American dollars) was pumped into Iraq to help prop up it's economy in the changeover stage of it's government and $9 billion of that is now unaccounted for?

Stolen by mostly Americans, and then pardoned before accusation so they cannot be touched. Here is the link



Probably wont fit it all in...sigh

Anyway it's from Vanity Fair magazine , article called Billions over Baghdad.

Go read it and see if it doesn't raise your blood pressure.

And indeed, pork prices are roughly the same because the same couple of massive corporations keep the price the way it is, aside from the gradully increasing inflation and devaluation of our dollar. They may be able to produce it more efficiently (read cheaper), so that raises their profit margin that is then in turn pushed even higher due to subsidies and tax breaks.

How is that good for 'mom and pop' famers that the subsidies are 'supposed' to go to?

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 3:51 PM

GREYWOLF: The US spends a mere 21 billion on foreign aid or roughly 1/400th of our government spending. Of that the biggest chuck is military aid which is just billions more to subsidize US military contractors and ship their products over to Israel & Egypt (who get the biggest pieces of the pie). Most of the other aid is required to be spent buying other US products (mostly excess grain and corn). In the end I'm sure a few hundred million do end up in the hands of corrupt 3rd world officials.

Should we fix that? Of course, but in the big scheme of things it's no more than trifling crumbs. A tiny 1% cut in spending on defense or social services would save us all a lot more money.

-- Posted by Nil on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 4:01 PM


I am in agreement with you about the whole "Till Death..." statement.

It takes a long time to do anything right, so it should take the same time to find Mrs. or Mr. Right. But in this age of "If it feels good, do it!" How can we really be surprised when divorce is more likely than a successful marriage? Can you really blame society when they have been indoctrinated by MTV and QVC? When you can get it while supplies last or see Paris make herself look even more like gutter trash?

The majority of society doesn't know the price that was paid for what has been earned. All they know is if it's tough, quit. Someone else will do it.

So why work at a marriage? Why give and take? Why ask those questions when you should ask, "Why the hell did I marry this idiot?"

-- Posted by fajar154 on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 4:28 PM

The problem with divorce and child custody etc... is the selfish factor. I have never met people so blatantly selfish as a divorcee. There have been many times in speaking with people that are divorced that they have said something so absolutely self-centered and deragatory towards their own children as to me made sick. If you are just so horribly distraught over your marriage, at least wait until your children are grown before you tear up everyone's lives to satisfy your own desires.

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 4:36 PM

as to made me sick

should read as to make me sick

sounded like a Yoda quote

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 4:56 PM

I see you all have decided that the person paying child support is the one that decided to end the marriage. If women stood to loose as much as the man, upto and possibly including her children the divorce rates would drop. everyone has forgotten that it takes two to make it but only one to break it.

-- Posted by lance623 on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 5:13 PM

I am not in fear of free markets at all. I am opposed to fascist states, which is what we have become. If someone wants to work hard and make money, then let them. If a few (and a number continually falling) powerful corporations have complete control over the government and therefore the policies it sets to further their consolidation of power and money, then yeah I am opposed to that.

I am all for a free and FAIR market.

We do not have that currently at all.

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 5:43 PM

Boy someone has an infinite amount of time to spout off their opinions. I wonder if that someone would spend a little of that time and energy cleaning up his front porch for the betterment of his neighborhood. It would seem that a community minded person who cares so much about our community would first start at home.

-- Posted by J Purcell on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 6:14 PM

Where is Minute-man: I have some information for him.

-- Posted by cannedheat on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 6:20 PM

Tell it like it is: Why don't you go up to his house and tell him yourself? That would be the neighborly thing to do. Also the manly.

-- Posted by cannedheat on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 6:21 PM

I see that Bush now says the milestones for the Iraqi "government" are not attainable and unrealistic. But if you look back at what he said in Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr and May you will see he agreed they were realistic and very attainable. How many lies can this man tell?


-- Posted by cannedheat on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 6:24 PM


Stuff a sock in it you crazy winch!

I don't know what the circumstances of your divorce was but from the tone of your post I bet I can guess. I get sick and tired of watching how the courts treat decent hard working men when it comes to child support vs. visitation rights. In this state a man don't have a snow balls chance. It must have been a greedy selfish angry woman that wrote the laws. How do I know all of this. I watched my son in law get thrown in jail every other month because of child support, and it was being taken straight out of his check before he got it. And they were never married. She ( the hateful witch ) never in two years let him see his daughter and the judge in the case(guess who) never did a thing about it. IN MISSOURI A MAN DONT HAVE A CHANCE!!

-- Posted by minute-man on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 7:46 PM


I seen your post. Give me alittle time to read every thing and catch up with you guys and I will be ready for you.

-- Posted by minute-man on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 7:53 PM

I am bit confused of the geneology in your post minute-man. Was your daughter the 'crazy witch'? If he was your son in law...

Just trying to get my head around it

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 8:14 PM

The presidents on!!

We're going to miss Flipper!!

-- Posted by minute-man on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 8:15 PM

Thought he was flipper as much as he changes his mind. He is liar, a criminal, a murderer, a closet gay, a jock sniffer, a traitor, a deserter, and most of all a manipulator of those who follow him.

People keep saying the Democrats should impeach him, I say if the Republicans had any scruples, they should impeach him. He has destroyed the Republican party. If the Republicans don't want to or are afraid to they should stand up and say we believe everything he says and will back him even if we lose the next election. Bet that won't happen.

Bush just stated during his "speech" he would required General Petraeus to give a report to Congress in March. We know who writes those reports, the White House so why lie about something like that.

You know one of the things the Administration says is, "mistakes were made". Yes they were and no one has been held accountable. Bush is the one who wanted this illegal invasion and he should if he had honor resign.

I used to have a sign on my office wall that said, "Pi$$ poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine". We invaded a country illegally, under false pretenses, and with illegal weapons. Now we are stuck, does that mean we all should suffer because of this Administrations mistakes. I don't think so. How many lives is his legacy worth?


-- Posted by cannedheat on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 8:29 PM

Minute-man: Was gonna tell you I knew what female said the White House would write the report for General Petraeus, but read last nights post again and saw Oldvet gave you the link. Sorry.

-- Posted by cannedheat on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 8:30 PM


no not my daughter! But you did make me laugh. She was the girl before my daughter.

He is a great guy I love him like he was my own child. I don't understand how anyone can treat a honest loving father like dirt out of spite and hatred.

-- Posted by minute-man on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 8:32 PM


I take it that you don't like Bush! Ha

Not many people do. But you already knew that. I was on the edge of my seat waiting to hear him say that he was going to reinstall the draft. Thank God we missed that bullet. Now I'm not defending him at all but try and remember that there were a lot of other people in our government that got the same intel. as him and they were all for going to Iraq as well.

That why you will always here my say that we need a Total and Absolute recall of all the idiots and then vote for term limits.

-- Posted by minute-man on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 8:43 PM

So permanent bases in Iraq. Wow, how **** dumb can Bush be? Does anyone here want permanent bases in Iraq? We don't have the manpower in the Armed Forces today to do everything this deserter has promised.

I think his "speech" tonight shows he has some sort of psychological problem. He is an egomaniac with no attachment to reality. He talked about an enduring relationship and signing a security treaty. Who you gonna sign a treaty with when there is no established government. He is delusional.


-- Posted by cannedheat on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 8:44 PM

So sad that nobody caught my Jeff Foxworthy joke. It was perfect timing. Oh well.

-- Posted by minute-man on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 8:46 PM

Minute-man: Am not JJ but will ask you if you still believe Iraq had anything to do with 9/11? Do you believe we will still find WMDs? Do you believe we should stay in Iraq indefinitely? Just wondering?

-- Posted by cannedheat on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 8:49 PM


I could use your data base to confirm this list. I wanted to have done it befor posting it but since it came to me as an e-mail I decided to put it up for you jj, and cannedheat and all of the others to see.

Tell me what you think. Fake or Fact??

Just a quick refresher course lest we forget what has happened to many "friends"of the Clintons.

1-James McDougal - Clinton's convicted Whitewater partner died of an apparent heart attack, while in solitary confinement. He was a key witness in Ken Starr's investigation.

2 -Mary Mahoney - A former White House intern was murdered July 1997 at a Starbucks Coffee Shop in Georgetown. The murder happened just after she was to go public with her story of sexual harassment in the White House.

3- Vince Foster - Former White House councilor, and colleague of Hillary Clinton at Little Rock's Rose Law firm. Died of a gunshot wound to the head, ruled a suicide-no gun found at scene.

4- Ron Brown - Secretary of Commerce and former DNC Chairman. Reported to have died by impact in a plane crash. A pathologist close to the investigation reported that there was a hole in the top of Brown's skull resembling a gunshot wound. At the time of his death Brown was being investigated, and spoke publicly of his willingness to cut a deal with prosecutors. The rest of the people on the plane also died. A few days later the air Traffic controller commited suicide.

5- C. Victor Raiser II- Raiser, a major player in the Clinton fund raising organization died in a private plane crash in July 1992.

6-Paul Tulley - Democratic National Committee Political Director found dead in a hotel room in Little Rock, September 1992. Described by Clinton as a "Dear friend and trusted advisor".

7-Ed Willey - Clinton fund raiser, found dead November 1993 deep in the woods in VA of a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide. Ed Willey died on the same day his wife Kathleen Willey claimed Bill Clinton groped her in the oval office in the White House. Ed Willey was involved in several Clinton fund raising events.

8-Jerry Parks -Head of Clinton's gubernatorial security team in Little Rock. Gunned down in his car at a deserted intersection outside Little Rock. Park's son said his father was building a dossier on Clinton. He allegedly threatened to reveal this information. After he died the files were mysteriously removed from his house.

9-James Bunch - Died from a gunshot suicide. It was reported that he had a "Black Book" of people which contained names of influential people who visited prostitutes in Texas and Arkansas.

10-James Wilson - Was found dead in May 1993 from an apparent hanging suicide. He was reported to have ties to Whitewater.

11-Kathy Ferguson- Ex-wife of Arkansas Trooper Danny Ferguson, was found dead in May 1994, in her living room with a gunshot to her head. It was ruled a suicide even though there were several packed suitcases, as if she were going somewhere. Danny Ferguson was a co-defendant along with Bill Clinton in the Paula Jones lawsuit. Kathy Ferguson was a possible corroborating witness for Paula Jones.

12-Bill Shelton - Arkansas State Trooper and fiancee of Kathy Ferguson. Critical of the suicide ruling of his fiancee, he was found dead in June, 1994 of gunshot wound also ruled a suicide at the grave site of his fiancee.

13-Gandy Baugh - Attorney for Clinton's friend Dan Lassater, died by jumping out a window of a tall building January, 1994. His client was a convicted drug distributor.

14-Florence Martin - Accountant & sub-contractor for the CIA, was related to the Barry Seal Mena Airport drug smuggling case. He died of three gunshot wounds.

15- Suzanne Coleman - Reportedly had an affair with Clinton when he was Arkansas Attorney General. Died of a gunshot wound to the back of the head, ruled a suicide. Was pregnant at the time of her death.

16-Paula Grober - Clinton's speech interpreter for the deaf from 1978 until her death December 9, 1992. She died in a one car accident.

17-Danny Casolaro - Investigative reporter. Investigating Mena Airport and Arkansas Development Finance Authority. He slit his wrists, apparently, in the middle of his investigation.

18- Paul Wilcher - Attorney investigating corruption at Mena Airport with Casolaro and the 1980 "October Surprise" was found dead on a toilet June 22, 1993 in his Washington DC apartment. Had delivered a report to Janet Reno 3 weeks before his death.

19-Jon Parnell Walker - Whitewater investigator for Resolution Trust Corp. Jumped to his death from his Arlington, Virginia apartment balcony August15, 1993. He was investigating the Morgan Guaranty scandal.

20-Barbara Wise - Commerce Department staffer. Worked closely with Ron Brown and John Huang. Cause of death unknown. Died November 29, 1996. Her bruised, nude body was found locked in her office at the Department of Commerce.

21-Charles Meissner -Assistant Secretary of Commerce who gave John Huang special security clearance, died shortly thereafter in a small plane crash.

22-Dr. Stanley Heard - Chairman of the National Chiropractic Health Care Advisory Committee died with his attorney Steve Dickson in a small plane crash. Dr. Heard, in addition to serving on Clinton's advisory council personally treated Clinton's mother, stepfather and brother.

23-Barry Seal -Drug running pilot out of Mena Arkansas, death was no accident.

24-Johnny Lawhorn Jr. - Mechanic, found a check made out to Bill Clinton in the trunk of a car left at his repair shop. He was found dead after his car had hit a utility pole.

25-Stanley Huggins - Investigated Madison Guaranty. His death was a purported suicide and his report was never released.

26- Hershell Friday - Attorney and Clinton fund raiser died March 1, 1994 when his plane exploded.

27-Kevin Ives & Don Henry - Known as "The boys on the track"case. Reports say the boys may have stumbled upon the Mena Arkansas airport

drug operation. A controversial case, the initial report of death said, due to falling asleep on railroad tracks. Later reports claim the 2 boys had been slain before being placed on the tracks. Many linked to the case died before their testimony could come before a Grand Jury.


28-Keith Coney - Died when his motorcycle slammed into the back of a truck, 7/88.

29-Keith McMaskle - Died stabbed 113 times, Nov, 1988......(possible suicide ?haa!)

30-Gregory Collins - Died from a gunshot wound January 1989.

31-Jeff Rhodes - He was shot, mutilated and found burned in a trash dump in April 1989.

33-James Milan - Found decapitated. However, the Coroner ruled his death was due to "natural causes".

34-Jordan Kettleson - Was found shot to death in the front seat of his pickup truck in June 1990.

35-Richard Winters - A suspect in the Ives / Henry deaths. He was killed in a set-up robbery July 1989.


36 -Major William S. Barkley Jr.

37-Captain Scott J . Reynolds

38-Sgt. Brian Hanley

39-Sgt. Tim Sabel

40-Major General William Robertson

41-Col. William Densberger

42-Col. Robert Kelly

43-Spec. Gary Rhodes

44-Steve Willis

45-Robert Williams

46-Conway LeBleu

47-Todd McKeehan

Quite an impressive list! Pass this on. Let the public become aware of what happens to friends of the Clinton's!



-- Posted by minute-man on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 9:01 PM

Sorry to all about the length of my last post. I wanted alot of people to see it and this is a great media for that!!

-- Posted by minute-man on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 9:03 PM

Minute-man: Haven't you learned about the e-mails you get. You have a lot of people who hate Clinton and seems to know you are of that same class or they wouldn't send it to you. I have had people I know send me religious stuff in fact family at times and I send it back with a nice note telling them I don't believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny, leprechauns, 100 miles per gallon SUVs, ghosts, witches, fairy tales and God. So please don't try to convert me as I am not interested.

Did you mail the person back that sent you the one about who was born 9 months after the Roswell incident. Seems they really messed that up hope you corrected them.

-- Posted by cannedheat on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 9:13 PM

Minute-man: How is this for a list I could e-mail to you, is it credible, is it complete, is it false. I don't know haven't researched each name.

People With Connections To The Bush Dynasty Who Met With Suspicious And Untimely Deaths

This list examines the corpses left in the wake of the Bush criminal dynasty.

Harry Mobley

Sid Adger..

Mr. Adger, a Houston oil supply company executive and Bush family friend, died in 1996 of unknown causes. Adger was the mysterious businessman who approached General James Rose and asked him to help George W. Bush avoid Vietnam by recommending him for a pilot position with the National Guard.

General James Rose..

General Rose recommended George W. Bush for a pilot position with the Texas National Guard. He died of unknown causes in 1993. He was immediately buried and no autopsy was performed.

Lt. Colonel William Harris, Jr...

Lt. Col. William Harris was one of two commanding officers who could not perform George W. Bush's annual evaluation covering the year from May 1, 1972 to April 30, 1973. They stated in their filing that "Lt. Bush has not been observed at this unit during the period of this report." Fortunately for George W. Bush, Lt. Col. Harris is not here to verify his 1973 statement. He's dead.

Lt. Colonel Jerry B. Killian..

Lt. Col. Jerry B. Killian was another of George W. Bush's commanding officers. He cannot testify in a court of law as to George W. Bush's dereliction of his sworn duty. Lt. Col. Killian is dead.

James Downing Aalund..

Mr. Aalund's name is the first on a long list of young Texans who died in Vietnam. These young men did not have influential fathers to pull the strings necessary to get them into the Texas Air National Guard. If they had been so lucky, they would surely have fulfilled their responsibilities to the ANG, if only out of gratitude that they did not have to die, thousands of miles away in a strange land. They surely would not have disappeared from duty for over a year, as did our fearless leader George W. Bush.

Enron - Bodies

J. Clifford Baxter...

Found dead in his car, shot in the head. Mr. Baxter was vice chairman of Enron Corp. when he resigned in May 2001. Enron has been hot copy lately with the revelation that they were the largest campaign contributors for George W. Bush. Was J. Clifford Baxter a potential witness to Bush foreknowledge of their wrongdoings? His death was ruled a suicide.

Charles Dana Rice...

He was the senior vice president and treasurer of El Paso Corp., an energy corporation swept up in the recent energy scandal. Two months after the "suicide" of Enron executive Clifford Baxter, in the midst of questions about the accounting practices of El Paso Corp., Charles Rice was found dead of a gunshot wound to the head. His death was ruled a suicide.

James Daniel Watkins...

His body was found on December 1, 2001 in the Pike National Forest in Colorado, a gunshot wound to the head. Mr. Watkins was a consultant for Arthur Andersen, the accounting firm for Enron. He disappeared on November 13 after he left work. He was described as a devoted family man who always called home if he were going to be late. Officials initially said that the death was suspicious, but have changed their tune and have ruled his death a suicide.

Commerce Secretary Ron Brown...

He died in a plane crash on April 3, 1996. Was Ron Brown the first Enron body? In 1995 Enron officials accompanied Brown on a trade mission to India, and to Russia in 1994. Speculation among right-wing whackos suggests that our last duly-elected President, Bill Clinton, was somehow responsible for his death, but we wonder: was Secretary Brown privy to information that would conclusively link George W. Bush to Enron greed and corruption? Charles Meissner, Assistant Commerce Secretary, also died in this crash.

Jake Horton...

He was the senior vice-president of Gulf Power, a subsidiary of Southern Company, a cohort of Enron in the energy industry, and a major contributer to the Bush! agenda. A ccording to reporter Gregory Palast, Horton knew of the company's appalling accounting practices, and "... had no doubt about its illegal campaign contributions to Florida politicans - he'd made the payments himself. In April of 1989 Horton decided to come clean with state officials, and reserved the company jet to go confront company officials. Ten minutes after takeoff the jet exploded.


Kennedy Assassination - Bodies

John Fitzgerald Kennedy...

An internal FBI memo reported that on November 22 a reputed businessman named George H. W. Bush reported hearsay that a certain Young Republican had been talking of killing the President when he came to Houston. The Young Republican was nowhere near Dallas on that date. According to a 1988 story in The Nation, J. Edgar Hoover said in a memo that Mr. George Bush of the CIA had been briefed on November 23rd, 1963 about the reaction of anti-Castro Cuban exiles in Miami to the assassination of President Kennedy. George H. W. Bush has denied this, although he was in Texas and cannot account for his whereabouts at the time.

Hale Boggs...

He sat on the Warren Commission, which concluded that President Kennedy was slain by a lone assassin. Later, in 1971 and '72, Boggs said that the Warren Report was false and that J. Edgar Hoover's FBI not only helped cover up the JFK murder but blackmailed Congress with massive wire-tapping and spying. He named Warren Commission staff member Arlen Specter as a major cover-up artist. Congressman Boggs' plane disappeared on a flight to Alaska in 1972. The press, the military, and the CIA publicly proclaimed the plane could not be located. Investigators later said that was a lie, that the plane had been found. On the plane were Nick Begich, a very popular Democratic Congressman, and Don Jonz, an aide to Mr. Boggs. All were killed.

George de Mohrenschildt...

A rich Russian oilman, he was described with his wife as being the two people friendliest to Oswald at the time of the assassination. De Mohrenschildt was the man who moved Oswald to Dallas. In the late 1970's, shortly before the first meeting of the House Select Committee on Assassinations, de Mohrenschildt started seeing a new doctor in town. He quickly became mentally unstable, at which time his wife convinced him to stop seeing the doctor. They moved away and left a false forwarding address. On the same day that the Committee tried to contact him about testifying, he was found dead of a gunshot wound. In his personal address book was the entry Bush, George H.W. (Poppy) and Zapata Petroleum Midland (the oil company owned by George H.W. Bush).

Mrs. E. Howard Hunt...

In December 1972, while George H. W. Bush was at the Republican National Convention, a United Airlines flight carrying Mrs. Dorothy Hunt, CIA operative and wife of Howard Hunt, (CIA operative and suspect in the Kennedy assassination) crashed. Believed to be carrying $25,000 in "hush money", she died in this crash.

George H.W. Bush - Bodies

Gary Caradori...

He was investigating Lawrence E. King, Jr., a very influential black Republican who was also a friend of George H.W. Bush. King was director of the Franklin Community Credit Union in Omaha, Nebraska, and was suspected of embezzling $40 million . The Nebraska Senate questioned child prostitutes, who accused King of running a child prostitution ring. One of these children said that she saw George H.W. Bush at one of King's parties. "Pronto", a newspaper in Barcelona, Spain, reported that the scandal "appears to directly implicate politicos of the state of Nebraska and Washington DC who are very close to the White House and George Bush himself". On July 11, 1990, Gary Caradori was killed along with his 6-year old son in the crash of his small plane, after a mid-air explosion, the cause of which was never discovered. He had told friends repeatedly in the weeks before his death that he was afraid his plane would be


Orlando Letelier...

He was torn to bits by a car bomb on the streets of Washington DC just before he was to testify against the Chilean dictator Pinochet. After the bombing, CIA Director George H. W. Bush told the FBI that there had been no Chilean involvement whatsoever. In 1991 the post-Pinochet Chilean Supreme Court asked George H. W. Bush if he would submit to questioning. BUSH REFUSED.

Ronni Moffit...

She was Letelier's assistant. She and her husband were riding in the car with Letelier when the bomb exploded. Mr. Moffit survived. Ronni didn't.

Jack Delaney and Ted White

These young men were killed when pilot George H. W. Bush abandoned his plane when it was hit by enemy fire. Much has been made of this story - Bush propaganda would have us believe that he was a hero. An eyewitness to the event tells us otherwise: Chester Mierzejewski, who was the turret gunner in another plane, had an unobstructed view. He states that he saw a "puff of smoke" come from Bush's plane and quickly dissipate. He states that the plane was never on fire and that Bush never attempted a water landing, which was standard procedure, and which would have given Mr. Delaney and Mr. White a chance.

Silent Voices - Bodies

Steve Kangas...

His web site, Liberalism Resurgent, was meticulously researched and presented such a problem to the "real boss" of George Bush, Richard Scaife, that he hired a private detective to look into Kangas' past. Steve Kangas was found in a 39th-floor bathroom outside of Scaife's offices at One Oxford Centre, in Pittsburgh, an apparent suicide. Mr. Kangas, a very prolific writer, left no note. He had brought a fully-packed suitcase of clothes with him to Pittsburgh. He bought a burglar alarm shortly before he left for Pittsburgh. Why did he need a burglar alarm if he was going to commit suicide? An avowed advocate of gun control, he nevertheless bought a gun. What was he afraid of? Why did he go to Pittsburgh? After his death, his computer was sold for $150 and its hard drive wiped clean. Everything in his apartment was thrown away.

Danny Casolaro...

He was working on a book that tied together the scandals surrounding the presidency of George H. W. Bush. He told his friends he was going to "bring back" the head of the Octopus. Instead, his body was found in a hotel in Martinsburg, West Virginia, on August 10, 1991, an apparent suicide.

Mark Lombardi...

He was an accomplished conceptual artist who, while chatting on the phone with a banker friend about the Bush savings and loan scandal, started doodling a diagram and was inspired to create a complex series of drawings and sketches that charted the details of the scandal. According to the New York Times, "He was soon charting the complex matrices of personal and professional relationships, conflict of interest, malfeasance and fraud uncovered by investigations into the major financial and political scandals of the day; to keep facts and sources straight, he created a handwritten database that now includes around 12,000 3-by-5-inch cards."

On the evening of March 22, 2000, Mark Lombardi was found hanging in his loft, an apparent suicide.

James Hatfield...

Mr. Hatfield was the author of Fortunate Son, an unauthorized biography of George W. Bush. The book detailed Bush's cocaine use and cover up of a cocaine arrest. He was found Wednesday, July 18, in a motel room, an apparent suicide.

Prescott Bush - Bodies

William S. Farish...

He was one of Prescott Bush's partners in business deals with Adolph Hitler. He was devastated by the intense grilling he received from the Senate about his dealings with Nazis, and while Prescott Bush skated free, Farish collapsed and died on November 29, 1942.

James Forrestal...

He was U.S. Secretary of Defense, and become a problem for Prescott Bush when he proposed racial integration of the Armed Forces. On March 28, 1949, he was forced out of office and flown on a military plane to Jupiter Island in Florida. From there he was taken to Walter Reed Army Hospi! tal, where he was given insulin shock treatments. He was shielded from all visitors except his estranged wife. From "George Bush, the Unauthorized Biography":

On May 22, Forrestal's body was found, his bathrobe cord tied tightly around his neck, after he had plunged from a sixteenth-story hospital window. The chief psychiatrist called the death a suicide even before any investigation was started. The results of the Army's inquest were kept secret. Forrestal's diaries were published, 80 percent deleted, after a year of direct government censorship and rewriting Texas

Justice - Bodies

Karla Faye Tucker...

She was executed in spite of enormous protest from the public, even those religious groups that advocate the death penalty. Even Pat Robertson thought that Karla was truly repentant and asked George W. Bush to spare her life. He refused. Afterward, in a Talk Magazine interview, Bush mocked the woman whose death warrant he had sanctioned, pursing his lips and whimpering, "Please don't kill me!"

David Wayne Spence...

David Wayne Spence was executed in Texas in 1997 in spite of compelling evidence of his innocence. Two of the State's witnesses were co-defendants who testified to avoid the death penalty, one of whom changed his story three times in response to discrepancies. He later testified that D.A. Simons encouraged him to alter his testimony. Two other witnesses for the State were jailhouse snitches who recanted later and stated that Simons offered them favors in exchange for testimony. All of this and more was supposedly reviewed by Governor George W. Bush, but Bush refused to commute his sentence, and did not order the Board of Pardons and Paroles to review his request for clemency. It is a myth that a Texas Governor can do nothing to stop executions; the Board will almost always go with his recommendation. Bush washed his hands of the matter and did nothing. Reasonable doubt is not a factor in Texas justice.

Gary Graham...

Gary Graham was convicted of the robbery and murder of a white man in 1981. Nearly two weeks after the crime, the state's prime witness could not pick Gary's picture out of a photo line-up. Mr. Graham was arrested with a 22 caliber pistol. The victim had been killed with a 22, but the police firearms examiner determined that Mr. Graham's gun DID NOT fire the fatal bullet. Four witnesses said Gary Graham was with them, miles away from the convenience store, when the murder occured. All four took and passed polygraph tests. George W. Bush, predictably, expressed his faith in the Texas judicial system and allowed Mr. Graham to be put to death. Mr. Graham maintained his innocence to the end.


Iran Contra - Bodies

Olof Palme...

He was the prime minister of Sweden, assassinated in 1986. Oliver North, the golden boy of the Bush/Reagan machine, had met with Mr. Palme to discuss the possibility of obtaining false end-user certificates for the plethora of weapons that were being purchased, so that they would seem to have come from a country other than the U.S. Mr. Palme refused to participate, after the plan was presented to him. He was dead within weeks.

William Casey...

William Casey was CIA Director during the Reagan/Bush Administration. He died 2 days before he was to testify about his and others' involvement in the Iran/Contra scandal.

Edmond J. Safra...

Banker Edmond J. Safra died mysteriously when a fire swept his Monaco penthouse apartment. His banks had been used for laundering money by the Bush Iran/Contra traitors.

Charles M. McKee and Matthew Gannon

Charles M. McKee, ostensibly a military attache for the DIA in Beirut, Matthew Gannon, CIA Deputy Station Chief in Beirut, and three others were on board Pan Am Flight 103, which exploded over Lockerbie, Scotland. They were part of a counterterrorist team in Beirut investigating the possible rescue of 9 American hostages in Lebanon. The McKee team uncovered evidence that a rogue CIA unit called COREA, based in Wiesbaden, was doing business with a man called Monzer Al-Kassar, a Syrian arms dealer and drug trafficker. Al-Kassar was part of the covert network run by U.S. Lieut. Colonel Oliver North. Outraged that the COREA unit in Wiesbaden was doing business with a Syrian who had close terrorist connections and might endanger their chances of rescuing the hostages, the McKee team decided to fly back to Virginia unannounced and expose the COREA unit's secret deal with al-Kassar. They never got there. "For three years, I've had a feeling that if Chuck hadn't been on that plane, it wouldn't have been bombed," said Beulah McKee, 75, Charles McKee's mother, to Time Magazine. Four months after her son was killed for his efforts to expose the CIA, Mrs. McKee received a sympathy letter from George H. W. Bush. Mrs. McKee has never been satisfied with the government's version of events.

Don Aronow...

He was a close friend of George H. W. Bush. According to the book "George Bush, the Unauthorized Biography," there is compelling evidence to conclude that Aronow was a drug smuggler and suspected drug-money launderer. He was murdered by professional killers on February 3, 1987. In the days before his death, he made many personal calls to George H. W. Bush.

Tommy Teagle, a man interviewed by author Thomas Burdick, was afraid of being murdered by Bush because he had knowledge that Aronow and Jeb Bush had been partners in cocaine trafficking.

Michael Hand...

He was a Green Beret and an Army Colonel assigned to the CIA. He ran the Nugan Hand Bank, a front for CIA drug money, in Sydney, Australia. He was in frequent contact with George Bush after his election to Vice President, according to CIA operative Trento Parker. Michael Hand was found in his car on a remote road outside Sydney, an apparent suicide. There were no fingerprints on the gun.

September 11, 2001 - Bodies

Bob Stevens...

Mr. Stevens died of a mysterious case of anthrax. He worked as a photo editor for American Media, who owns the National Enquirer. The Bush family suffered enormous embarrassment at the hands of the Enquirer when they published a photo of daughter Jenna Bush, obviously intoxicated, cigarette in hand, cavorting on the floor with another drunken female.

Don C. Wiley...

Dr. Wiley disappeared November 15, 2001 in Memphis, Tennessee. He was attending a two-day annual meeting of the scientific advisory board of St. Jude Children's Research Hospital. His work on deadly diseases such as ebola and HIV raised fears of a terrorist kidnapping. Four hours later, his rental car was found on a bridge, raising the question of suicide, which his family vehemently refuted. Dr. Wiley was found a month later in the Mississipi River.

Salem bin Laden...

In 1979 Bush business Arbusto Energy obtained financing from James Bath, a close family friend. Bath had extensive ties to BCCI and the bin Laden family. Bath was the sole U.S. business representative for Salem bin Laden, the brother of Osama bin Laden. It is well known in certain circles that the Arbusto money came straight from Salem bin Laden, although Bush denies it. Salem bin Laden died when for no apparent reason, he flew his airplane into power lines where it became entangled, and fell 150 feet to the ground. "He was a very experienced pilot. He was a good pilot. We just can't understand why he decided to go right instead of left," recalled airstrip owner Earl May field.

Thomas Morris Jr....

Mr. Morris was a postal worker who died October 21, 2001, of inhalation anthrax. When people expressed concern to the current occupant of the White House about the anthrax cases in New York and Washington, his response was to tell us not to worry, that he does not have anthrax.

Joseph Curseen...

Mr. Curseen died October 22, 2001, of inhalation anthrax. It has been reported that the anthrax infections since September 11 are of the same strain that was kept in a military facility.

Kathy T. Nguyen...

Ms. Nguyen died on October 31, 2001, of inhalation anthrax. But we shouldn't worry - George W. Bush remains anthrax-free.

Katherine Smith...

She had been implicated in February in a phony passport scheme said to be related to the September 11 hijackers. One day before she was due in court, she was incinerated in her car after having hit a utility pole. An investigation revealed that the crash was minor and was not the cause of the fire that burned Smith beyond recognition. Who was really behind 9/11? Was Katherine Smith privy to that information? Why did she have to die, and who killed her?

...and last, but not least,

Margie Schoedinger...

She filed suit against George W. Bush for rape..

-- Posted by cannedheat on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 9:16 PM

Sorry about the amount of bullsh*t but shows how fast you can come up with that kind of crap.

-- Posted by cannedheat on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 9:16 PM

Minute-man did you see my post where I ask you some questions?

-- Posted by cannedheat on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 9:18 PM


Please go back and reread my postings! I never thought that Iraq as a country had anything to do with 9/11.

NO the WMD were probably moved to Syria, or Jordan. Yes I think that Saddam had them but since we kept telling him for what 6 months that we were coming he sent the out. ( my opinion) not too far fetched to think that others in that region might be interested in helping him hide them.

I never said that we need to stay in Iraq indefinitely. I only said that we cant jump and run. I'm sorry you have mistaken me for someone else OR I was trying to start an argument due to way to much RUM. can you paste an example of my hypocrisy??

-- Posted by minute-man on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 9:18 PM

My question really is how would you get out of Iraq? How long is the commitment? Do you think we need a permanent base in Iraq?

Not trying to start an argument just trying to figure out where you stand. Thought you were defending Bush when you said a lot of people had the same intel as him and they were all for going to Iraq as well. Most of those people now say it was a mistake. The exceptions being Bush, Cheney, and the die hard neocons.

You confuse me you say you don't like Bush, but you defend him and his actions. If I am wrong please enlighten me. And I would like to remain civil, it has been a very nice experience and for that I do thank you.

-- Posted by cannedheat on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 9:27 PM


What you didn't get enough the other night. I think you must be a drinker. I sent that e-mail out with the best of intentions at a possible good debate then you start shooting off your mouth AGAIN. You have a real problem you know it.

A simple minded boob just cruising for a fight. I'm done with you. And don't come back this time with your tail tucked looking to but someone lunch you are incapable of debate with out attack. Have a good drunk!!

See what happens when you try to be civil oldvet??

-- Posted by minute-man on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 9:27 PM

well what a change three minutes make.

I apologize for loosing my temper.

Now go back and reread my post like you have interest not like an attack dog.

How many times do I have to tell you I DONT SUPPORT BUSH. And I only see those running for President changing their minds,

Really cannedheat PLEASE, PLEASE try and read slower and reread if you find it hard to understand. Quit the crap. Its getting old and I'm tired of the same stupid questions. I will only answer one time from now on.

-- Posted by minute-man on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 9:34 PM


I will apoligize every day for the next week for my stupid outburst.

You didnt deserve that and I am VERY sorry.

I tell you what. You give me the answers to your questions then I will respond OK?

-- Posted by minute-man on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 9:38 PM

Now I'm serious about that list.

Has anyone else received it?

It looks like it might be making the rounds.

Fact or Fake?

-- Posted by minute-man on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 9:45 PM

Will see you guys this weekend or next week. Have to go out of town tomorrow early. Will take my computer with me but usually can't get online.

If don't hope everyone has a nice weekend and stay safe.

-- Posted by cannedheat on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 9:46 PM

...I still contend the answers are hidden somewhere in blue tubs...

-- Posted by insider63785 on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 9:55 PM


Your welcome. My friend in Green Bay sent it to me. I'm curious as to how much truth there is, I remember lots of those names from the Clinton list.

I'm going to continue trying to confirm the names, of course I cant confirm any wrong doing from Bill or Hillary (sp) but it will be fun to discuss.

I have never seen the list cannedheat posted and man it didn't take him no time to produce it. He must have been waiting for a long time to use it. Anyway it looks equally interesting so I think I will work on confirming it as well.

-- Posted by minute-man on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 10:03 PM

hilleco: I do not consider it interference...

BTW, do know how much it costs to run a farm?? Trust me, most years we are lucky to break even!

-- Posted by pookiebear on Thu, Sep 13, 2007, at 11:39 PM

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