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Wednesday, July 23, 2014

Speak Out 9/11/07

Tuesday, September 11, 2007

Consignment shopping

PARENTS WHO are looking for a way to buy quality clothing and toys for their children should look into local consignment sales. Cape Girardeau has some great shops. Most kids outgrow their clothing before they wear it out, so consigning is also a great way to recover some money and buy the next size. Grab a bargain where you can find it.

Cell phone danger

WHEN IS Missouri going to wake up to the fact that talking on a cell phone while driving is more impairing than a 0.08 percent blood alcohol level. This has been proven in many studies. It needs to be against the law to talk on a phone in a car.

Animal rights

PLEASE TAKE the time to read philosopher Peter Singer. If you do so, you will be convinced that animal rights deserve to be on a par with those of humans.

Driving with guns

OVER THE weekend a felon was arrested for driving with a loaded gun, an extra magazine of ammunition and a stun gun but was let go on Monday. Can the average person with no police record drive around Cape Girardeau with those weapons and not be arrested if stopped by police?

Rain at last

HURRAH FOR the SEMO District Fair and rain dance. It worked.

Driving rules

THE 12 Commandments of Driving: 1. Thou shalt not butt out in front of others. 2. Thou shalt not gas it at red lights. 3. Thou shalt keep thy front bumper off my trailer hitch. 4. Thou shalt not do 15 in a 45 mph zone. 5. Thou shalt make left-handed turns from the turning lane, not the right lane. 6. Thou shalt use only one parking place. 7. Thou shalt not smash my door whilst I shop. 8. Thou shalt not toss fast-food wrappers out of the window. 9. Thou shalt not park in the middle of the street and chat. 10. Thou shalt pay attention to the road, not the cell phone. 11. Thou shalt leave the wine alone while driving. 12. Thou art not in Chicago. Please stop driving like thou art.

Marquee signs

JACKSON, USE your marquee signs to tell people to turn lights on when it's raining or on a cloudy day. Use them to tell slower drivers to move to the right lane. But to use them to tell drivers how to use turning lanes? I have to laugh. With all the vehicles at rush hour, the only way across a street is to pull out into the turning lane. It keeps traffic flowing. There's not real statistic showing this has caused more accidents than driving with no lights on in rain or hindering traffic by blocking both lanes. Turning into the turn lane is a nonenforceable law that shouldn't exist. The police department has better things to do like give tickets to drivers at 1 a.m. in the morning, driving through Jackson with a headlight out. Let's get real.

Behind the scenes

AS THE wife of a Scott City city worker who -- along with the water department, city administrator, fire chief and police chief -- worked well over 24 hours in conditions may you never have to experience, I was dismayed to read the "Not a priority" comment. These guys weren't even stopping to eat meals, and only once was I asked to bring them cold water to drink. Due to it being a holiday weekend and acquiring parts being a real obstacle in this situation, all that could be done by anyone was done. Often there is much going on behind the scenes that must be considered in the drawing of the conclusion for it to be an accurate one.

Average weather

THE WEATHER has a way of averaging out. It was abnormally warm in March. It became abnormally cold in April. It was abnormally dry in August. Now it might turn abnormally wet in September.


Fact Check
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Comments
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MARQUEE SIGNS,

It's funny you complain about the Jackson Police Dept. for not enforcing the headlight law when it's raining, but criticize them for stopping people with a headlight out at night, talk about silly. I would imagine that it's proably harder to people stopped when it's raining that it is when it's 1:00 am. Maybe you should start to think before you write. okay. Thank you and have a great day.

-- Posted by Wilsonite on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 7:13 AM

WHAT???? No wacky 911 conspiracy theories yet today?

-- Posted by QT-PIE on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 7:35 AM

I think MJB is composing a lengthy blog on 9/11 as we type, the 45 page thesis should be online by 9:15 as I am sure he stayed up last night working on it.

To the troops on this day (and every day): THANK YOU!

-- Posted by Cape Tape on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 8:08 AM

Don't forget the Little Lambs Children's Sale at the armory! It's an awesome bi-annual consignment sale that features quality name brand childrens and maternity clothing, toys, books, games, furnishing, etc. The fall sale is Septebmer 26-29 at the National Guard Armory. For more info... www.mylittlelambs.com

-- Posted by little lamb on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 8:33 AM

Animal Rights:

Animals should be treated as fairly as possible, but they have no rights. They are not human.

-- Posted by bigdaddy200 on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 8:35 AM

On this day I wish to thank all the military personnel serving around the globe. The are trying to protect something for us which our government would like to take away, namely the Constitution. Let us hope they are successful.

I don't post here much, but I do read the comments on most days. For those who dislike what Michael J Ballou post, I have one thing to say. Don't read it. I don't agree with a lot of what he post but read my first paragraph. He does have some very good information on the history of what has transpired over the last 100 years. I have certain beliefs and I hold to them, you have yours, he has his. If you don't want yours disparaged please don't disparage another's.

I am not trying to be a jerk, but think some here need to reread American History. This country wouldn't exist if our founding fathers had had unwavering devotion for their government, which was the King of England. The right to free speech and assembly would not be needed if our founding fathers had not thought dissention wasn't a good thing.

-- Posted by lvsholeflow on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 8:52 AM

Cell phone danger: Myth Busters did a program on how cell phone use and being legally intoxicated were similar. Under a controlled study with state police, sorry don't remember which state, they had the subjects drive a course using a cell phone and then after having enough drinks to become legally intoxicated. The results were the same, cell phone drivers have the same reaction time as legally intoxicated drivers.

-- Posted by cannedheat on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 9:27 AM

Last night, your Senator, SENATOR KIT BOND, spent several minutes on the floor of the U.S. Senate defending the DOT's Mexican trucking pilot program.

His comments were made in response to the amendment that was introduced by Senators Byron Dorgan (D-ND) and Arlen Specter (R-PA) to cut off funding for the pilot program.

Please contact Senator Bond ASAP to tell him he should be opposing the DOT's pilot program and that he should SUPPORT the "Dorgan-Specter cross-border trucking" amendment.

The telephone number for Senator Bond's Capitol Hill office is (202) 224-5721

Make sure to vote this traitor out!!

-- Posted by minute-man on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 9:34 AM

Senators Byron Dorgan (D-ND) and Arlen Specter (R-PA) offered an amendment today that will slam the brakes on the Mexican trucking pilot program!

The Senators' amendment to the Senate's version of the FY08 transportation appropriations bill will cut off all funding for the DOT's cross-border pilot program.

In July the U.S. House of Representatives passed a similar amendment to their version of the FY08 transportations appropriations bill. The amendment will be voted on sometime tomorrow (Tuesday) morning.

Please contact both of your U.S. Senators ASAP to tell them to SUPPORT the "Dorgan-Specter cross-border trucking" amendment.

To contact your senators, call the U.S. Capitol switchboard at (202) 224-3121, provide the operator with your home zip code and they will connect you with the office of your

-- Posted by minute-man on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 9:37 AM

I will try to be short. The people that are responsible for 9/11 are still enjoying their power and money as they continue to sacrifice American lives to the endless meat grinder of greed. Don't you find it odd that just as we the people need to be reminded of why we are fighting, Osama bin Laden (in an obvious fake video..it's really a poor attempt) shows up and sounds like he is doing a conservative talk show host's imitation of Democrats? Of course today now the conservative talk show hosts are all alight with saying 'see Democrats? bin Laden is one of you!'

I even heard on the radio last night (not sure which show it was) saying that Bush needs to grow some balls (and yeah, he said it exactly like that) and bomb the hell out of North Korea too.

Do you people not see that our Republic has been hijacked and our freedoms and voice are dying?

9/11 was an inside job. Truths and facts outwiegh new-con spin.

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 10:14 AM

A thank you from my family to all of the American Hero's around the world fighting the battles to keep America and our friends safe from those who wish to do us harm. Your selfless deeds and sacrifice can never be repaid. Many of us don't believe in or support this war but we believe in you and continually pray for the speedy and safe return of each and every one of you. Our family will continue to pray for your safety and a quick solution to this conflict to bring you home as fast as possible.

God Bless You and keep you Safe.

-- Posted by minute-man on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 10:19 AM

Somebody slept in today.

-- Posted by calypso12 on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 10:37 AM

Somebody slept in today.

-- Posted by calypso12 on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 10:37 AM

An article that I found from a year ago. cannedheat,MJB and jj should enjoy it.

foreignaffairs.org/20060901facomment85501/johnmuller/is-there-still-a-terrorist-threat.html

oldvet:

have you ever been here?

www.foreignpolicy.com

today's articles are very enlightening

-- Posted by minute-man on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 11:00 AM

oldvet:

you can register to get access to free articles or you can join to have full access.

I get the free part. it still has lots of great articles on current events and hot topics.

-- Posted by minute-man on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 11:07 AM

If 9/11 was an inside job explain all of the cell phone calls from passengers to their families, and the arab voices and language heard by the air traffic controllers.

-- Posted by DARTHJASON on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 11:09 AM

There are many things drivers do in their cars that negatively effects their driving ability besides alcohol and cell phones. Tuning the radio, reaching around for their child's pacifier, drinking a soda, eating, reaching for a napkin, looking at a map or directions, looking at their GPS, looking at someone in another car, picking their nose, etc. The point is, there are already too many laws on the books. There is a law right now against reckless driving. Doing any of the above, including talking on a cell phone could cause someone to drive recklessly. No need for a new law, the cops can inforce what is already law. Don't bog down our legislature asking them to debate and waste time on this issue. Let them waste time on other issues.

-- Posted by cal on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 11:16 AM

I did indeed find that article you posted interesting: it happens to support my point of view. When you whittle it down to it's base points it says that the government is grossly overstating the danger of terrorists to justify spending (and losses of liberty) and also that the 9/11 attacks were counter-productive to the terrorists supposed aims. Just because they hate us, that doesn't make them stupid. Why would a tiny group of people call upon them the wrath of the greatest military might on Earth or help them gain allies against you?

This administration and it's cronies (Halliburton et al) have gained far far more from 9/11 than al Qaida. The American people are constantly being bombarded with 'they are going to attack again!' fearmongering to further have us believe that we need to give even more to the fight against the enemies. Of course Iraq had NOTHING TO DO with 9/11, but that is irrelavent isn't it?

(ever notice that Fox news is the one channel that ALWAYS has the current terror level displayed in their crawls?)

Regardless of where you are at on the 'who controlled the 9/11 attacks) you would have to be blind and dumb to not see the fearmongering and unfair usage of it's outcome to further the agenda of enemies of our Republic right here at home.

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 11:25 AM

DarthJason, most of the cell phone calls could not have happened. They just don't work at that altitude. I know, in the History Channel special they just simply stated that cell phones work up to 50000 feet. That's utter BS. They just state that as fact with nothing to back it up.

Studies have been done and it was WAY less than a 1% chance that a call would even connect at that altitude, much less be audible and have background voices at that.

Airphones?

It was 'proven' by usage of the cell phone records of the victims, that the calls were placed by their phones, not airphones. So if the cell phones were the ones used, then it's a broken argument. They couldn;t have been. Just use some common sense. Cell phones don't work well when you go inside some houses, or you are in the sticks away from towers. But they work crystal clear at 35000 feet moving at 500mph? 6 years ago?

Use some common sense.

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 11:31 AM

JJ,

Did you intentionally avoid the question about the air traffic controllers or not read my entire post?

-- Posted by DARTHJASON on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 11:51 AM

I have been using common sense by the way. I do believe that the majority of the citizens of the United States do not believe that 9/11 was an inside job.

-- Posted by DARTHJASON on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 11:52 AM

Seems to me that with nothing between the phone and the tower a cell phone would work better in a plane than on the ground. We already know that the antenna system is omnidirectional so why wouldn't it work from the air? My common sense tells me that those calls would have gone through for two reasons.

1) they were in the the air

2) they were descending

both reasons would have given the phone access to multiple cell towers.

-- Posted by minute-man on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 11:58 AM

I am not nor have I ever disputed that there was not some hijackers on board at all. And several polls have shown that:

84% are not satified with the official story of 9/11 (CBS/NYTimes poll)

Of those 84%, 53% believe that the government is hiding something, 34% believe the government is mostly lying.

89% of a CNN poll said same thing.

A Canadian Poll has it at 89%

Another poll I have seen has 50% of New Yorkers believe that the government was behind the attacks.

So , I am not alone, nor am I in the minority.

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 12:00 PM

Please , do some research. The cell phone calls COULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED. The maximum working altitude then was around 8000 feet.

Look it up.

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 12:04 PM

The biggest change in cell phone technology in the last 6 years (besides style) is that the system has been completely changed from analog to digital which would indeed make the the distance and clarity of calls much greater. From most places on earth with nothing to block your view the horizon is only about 15 miles or so (I could be wrong) meaning you need to place an antenna at a greater height to transmit beyond that distance. So if your in a plane that would increase the distance of transmissions and the number of antennas that you could access. I could be wrong but it all makes sense to me.

-- Posted by minute-man on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 12:08 PM

I would be interested in where you found that information that 8000 feet would have been the max. I currently have a walkie talkie more than twenty years old that has a much greater distance than 8000 feet. Omnidirectional by the way means all around and in every direction. Now I'm no expert in cell phones and only a novice in portable radios but it seems that cell phone technology is much further advanced than a twenty year old walkie talkie. The frequency has less traffic than an am or fm radio station giving it a greater distance. with all of this said please tell me where you found your info. I am not trying to start a argument I'm really interested in reading it and learning about it.

-- Posted by minute-man on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 12:23 PM

Saw this on a tee shirt in Springfield:

"I am free, are you" Osama Bin Laden

Springfield is not exactly San Francisco.

-- Posted by cannedheat on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 1:04 PM

Nope sorry wife corrected me it was in Branson.

Maybe it was a flaming liberal.

-- Posted by cannedheat on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 1:05 PM

How are you today Minute-man? Did you go down this morning, I was at freedom corner. Didn't see you if you were there. Sorry would have bought you lunch.

-- Posted by cannedheat on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 1:07 PM

I couldn't make it this morning, I'm trying to settle on an insurance claim and its a real pain. Thanks for thinking about me though. I hope to be able to make it this afternoon. Were you able to check out the article I posted for you, MJB and jj??

-- Posted by minute-man on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 1:15 PM

Here is a section of an article about the rules of having cell phones on planes:

We also know that wireless communications networks weren't designed for ground-to-air communication. Cellular experts privately admit that they're surprised the calls were able to be placed from the hijacked planes, and that they lasted as long as they did. They speculate that the only reason that the calls went through in the first place is that the aircraft were flying so close to the ground.

*Please note, the listed cruising altitiudes from the official 9/11 report is that they were at around 31,000 until very close to the end obviously.*

Here is another press release from Qualcomm from 2004 trumpeting the success of *now* being able to make reliable cell calls from aircraft : http://www.qualcomm.com/press/releases/2......

The cell phone calls may or may not have happened as reported. If they did it was a fluke. I am of the opinion that they did not, but truthfully, there are good arguments on both sides of this facet of it. I am not hanging my hat on the cell phone calls as proof of 9/11 one way or the other. The data avaliable to the public just isn't there like it is for supporting say the fall of the towers and WTC7 nor the stand down of NORAD etc... Laws of physics, that sort of thing.

Yes, I am backpedaling from my earlier posts on this.

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 1:27 PM

Minute-man: Yes thanks, I have been to that website before but it has been awhile. I was just trying to find an article I read early this morning which had some emails from foot soldiers in Iraq. One made a very astute statement in he wished Bush and Congress persons would have to spend time in the field with them, not stay in a remote place or the green zone which is heavily fortified and affords luxuries not in the field. Bet this would make them think on the next vote.

I am serious about buying you lunch some time.

-- Posted by cannedheat on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 1:29 PM

jj:

Thanks for the info but correct me if I'm wrong. I'm also quite familiar with qualcomm communications they handle satellite communications and tracking for many large transportation companies (basically trucking companies) they also do communications for smaller companies such as taxi cabs, and in town or local delivery firms, I was not aware that they had entered the cell phone business. Are they or are they not using satellite's for their airline communication systems?

-- Posted by minute-man on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 2:33 PM

cannedheat:

I accept your lunch invitation we should try to make it in the next few weeks. Thanks for the civil tone in your postings today they are a welcome change to the way we have been communicating in the past. No apologies are needed for the other day because I'm sure that we both meant to say exactly what we said given the heat of the moment. I will try to be more precise in telling every one where my info comes from instead of trying to convince you that it is right. After all two people can read the same article and get a different meaning from it. I hope that you are enjoying this wonderful weather we are haveing today and I will talk to you later, I have an appointment to make.

-- Posted by minute-man on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 2:46 PM

cannedheat:

I accept your lunch invitation we should try to make it in the next few weeks. Thanks for the civil tone in your postings today they are a welcome change to the way we have been communicating in the past. No apologies are needed for the other day because I'm sure that we both meant to say exactly what we said given the heat of the moment. I will try to be more precise in telling every one where my info comes from instead of trying to convince you that it is right. After all two people can read the same article and get a different meaning from it. I hope that you are enjoying this wonderful weather we are haveing today and I will talk to you later, I have an appointment to make.

-- Posted by minute-man on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 2:46 PM

******************************************************

Lots of people honked and cheered in support at the noon time meeting at Freedom Corner. I hope to see you all again at the 5-6 block.

- T

******************************************************

-- Posted by Tarantulas on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 2:47 PM

jj:

the web site you posted was not found?

do you have it right?

-- Posted by minute-man on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 2:49 PM

jj:

the web site you posted was not found?

do you have it right?

-- Posted by minute-man on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 2:50 PM

From what I understand they are using CDMA, which is a spread-spectrum radio frequency technology. It does not look like it uses satellites, but does have some of the side effects of satellite communications like delay and echoing problems. It is very similar to secure radio technology used by the military (which I used to work on by the way.) So it is a pumped up interface for cell phones that is specifically designed to not interfere with avionics systems in planes.

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 2:53 PM

Trying again for that link...I think it truncated some of it

http://www.qualcomm.com/press/releases/2...

040715_aa_testflight.html

sorry it cuts it off copy and paste the whole thing into a browser and it will work

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 2:56 PM

The reaction for the lunchtime block of Freedom Corner activities produced the nation's reaction in microsm...

There were more supporters of ending the war etc... than the few that were VERY against what we were saying (One lady told us that we were part of the problem and causing harm and killing more Americans by protesting the war...wow) but the majority of people just didn't care. That pretty much sums up the nation's attitude as whole.

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 3:03 PM

Again, I stand corrected... right there in that press release I missed it. They are indeed using satellites to bounce the cell calls to the ground. So , yeah pretty much, they are satellite phones. Makes the cell phone thing that much more implausible.

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 3:05 PM

For the comment about the average citizen driving around Cape with a firearm. You cannot be arrested if the gun is concealed in your car or truck. You do not need a concealed carry permit for that. You only need the permit for when you are carrying it concealed on your person.

It is still against federal law for a felon to possess a firearm or ammo for one. The feds should have been notified and they should have taken action.

-- Posted by mightymo on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 3:16 PM

So , yeah pretty much, they are satellite phones. Makes the cell phone thing that much more implausible

jj:

I don't mean to try a confuse you but, You would be correct if you were talking about the air-phones on the plane. We are (I think) talking about the personal cell phones of the passengers and again even at 31000 ft. (about 6 miles) I don't think it would be out of the norm for a personal cell phone to connect. Now remember I don't claim to be an expert but knowing what I know about portable transmitters and what you know about military radios would you agree that its not impossible for the plane it self to act as a passive antenna and maybe even reflect a cells transmission to a tower? I think maybe it could and quite often at that. I mean a store bought SSB CB radio can use skip to talk all over the world if the atmospheric conditions are right and that's with only about 4 to 6 watts of power. Just a thought.

-- Posted by minute-man on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 4:51 PM

I didn't know that any of the terrorist were still alive. I didn't know that you had to be an expert pilot to crash a plane. I did know that many mid eastern men throw their religious beliefs away once they get to the States, after all they want to dance and get crazy with our beautiful young women as much as any man. I also knew that there are thousands of people on the FBI watch list running around free all over the world. That's why its called the watch list. Watch and see what they lead us to. I have never

heard any thing about MOST pilots being amazed over a turn that one of the planes made. (Please tell me where to find that info) Also would like to know where to find info that the Patriot act was already written before 9/11.

You have so much to comment on in this post that I think I will save it until you answer my questions then I will address the rest of it. I must say that you have a good memory to pull all of that spin together in one post.

Oh by the way, The supposed plane that hit the pentagon has always mystified me!!

-- Posted by minute-man on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 5:26 PM

The calls in disput are indeed actual cell calls, not airphone. The skin and interior of the plane would tend to inhibit cell reception, much as simply being inside a house or car inhibits it a bit. All that fiberglass padding throughout the planes insulate it well. In fact, while working on C130s on the ground, I sometimes had to jump out to get reception on our handhelds to call the shop. Significant db loss.

The Qualcomm deal is a new (2004) system that runs an access point (for lack of a better term) that then bounces off a satellite and back down to (I assume proprietary..but perhaps not) ground stations tied to the phone system.

Again, in my opinion it is implausible that the cell calls (not airphones) did occur the way the 9/11 comission portrays them, but there are simply not enough facts known to validate it 100% one way or the other.

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 5:35 PM

MJB:

I look forward to seeing you at the gun show on the 29th. One of my favorite events in Cape Girardeau. To bad you cant find any bargains like you used to, still I always need more ammo. I have many more questions to ask you about the post you sent to QT- Pie

Some of what you said has really peaked my interest. Now mind you that don't mean that I do now or ever will subscribe to the same ideas on 9/11 that you do, but at long last you have in a sense got my attention.

-- Posted by minute-man on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 5:38 PM

British investigators reported that several of the hijackers listed on our documents are actually alive and well. The one that is celebrated in Osama's newest tape (FAKE!) is indeed one that turned up alive and well in Morroco.

And yes, most pilots are amazed at the acrobatic manuevers performed to crash into the Pentagon the way in which it did. It did a 270 degree turn at 500 mph and then skimmed the ground at just a few feet (but did not touch as evidenced by the pristine lawn in every picture avaliable from that day) and crashed just into the building at its most lightly occupied.

Interesting is the fact that to explain the lack of evidence of a plane , it was explained that the tons of aluminuim, titanium et al, was completely vaporized on impact. Yet at the same time, the nose of the aircraft (made of lightweight fiberglass like substance) survived with enough force to poke a neat round hole through the interior concrete wall, after having passed thorugh all the others.

There are serious problems with the Pentagon strike.

-- Posted by jumpinjehova on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 5:40 PM

jj:

I guess for now we can only give our individual theories, This has been a very enlightening conversation. I have enjoyed it.

Do you still work in the communication industry? I would like to pick your brain sometime about the modification of AM and SSB CB radios. If there were to be any type of conflict in this country those would probably be the best and most common ways to communicate. I spend a lot of time on my radio

and with very little power I can talk long distance most any day.

-- Posted by minute-man on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 5:49 PM

here is another website on the cellphone useage on 9/11 http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics/ind...

Just for info

-- Posted by mightymo on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 5:57 PM

OK,

That clears up one of my questions. I thought MJB was talking about a turn that was made by one of the planes that hit the towers.

Like I said the pentagon plane has indeed raised many eye brows. That particular crash is probably the most mysterious of them all. I have heard that many eye witnesses claim to have seen a missile and a military fighter in the area when the crash occurred.

-- Posted by minute-man on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 6:00 PM

I drove past FREEDOM CORNER AT 5:45 PM (the northwest corner of West End and Broadway, correct?) and THERE WAS NOBODY THERE!? How credible is anyone anymore?

-- Posted by ynot on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 6:07 PM

Minute-man, MJB and JJ: All cell phones in 2001 were required to work at or below .6 watts as per the FCC.

Cell phones work in the 824.04 to 848.97 MHZ range which is usually called the Ultra High Frequency range {UHF}. This is a very short wavelength which is blocked by most any solid object plus all metal.

The antenna on your cell phone is omnidirectional but the antenna on the cell tower is not. The antenna on a tower has a reflector to shape the propogation of the signal. This is basically the same thing as your headlights on your car, a bulb and a reflector to make it go in one direction. These signals overlap and therefore form regions of operation and this is how a cell can be tracked.

An aircraft is made of aluminum, it therefore acts as a shield or reflector to a signal from inside. Radar works by using the reflective quality of the aircraft or any metal object. Same operation for xray. I have personally tried to use a cell phone in an aircraft and could not get any bars.

Here is a site for your info if interested.

http://www.rense.com/general56/cellpp.ht...

-- Posted by cannedheat on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 6:14 PM

Minute-man: You are correct in the short wave and AM radio frequencies will be the only way to communicate were communications cut off. What you are talking about when you say if conditions are right you can talk long distances is what we call skip or more correctly bouncing the signal off the "D" layer in the ionsphere. It is used by short wave people and military frequently.

-- Posted by cannedheat on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 6:20 PM

Mighty-mo: Thanks for the website, couldn't get it to pull up all the way. Maybe a lot of people using it or my server is crowded, don't know but am interested in looking at it. Thanks again.

-- Posted by cannedheat on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 6:25 PM

cannedheat:

Thanks for the info. Two questions,1) Six years ago many systems for cellular communications were still analog would that have made any difference?

2)I'm not trying to second guess you but, are you sure that there is/was no chance of the planes structure being used as a passive antenna? I have also used a phone on a plane although the signal was only 1/3 to 1/2 strength my call did go through until I was ask to hang up by the flight attendant (oops)

-- Posted by minute-man on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 7:40 PM

Minute-man: In 2001 cell phones were mixed. Some were only analog while others were what was called tri-mode meaning they supported 2 modes of digital and one mode of analog. They were CDMA phones not the new GSW phones which work in most places of the world. The big differences were the analog phone could reach 911 where the digital phones at that time could not. So if you were using a tri-mode and you called 911, you wouldn't reach the 911 operator, but it would switch to analog so you could complete the call. Hope that answers the first question.

I am not an electrical engineer, but what I know about communications, radar, and navigation systems, I would have to say no to the passive antenna. I do know passive radar is used, has been used for decades and will be used in the future. Passive radar is where you use the signals from the aircraft, be it FM, AM, their transponders, or from another radar source which is tracking that particular object. In my opinion, I said opinion, I don't feel an aircraft could be used as a passive antenna for cell phone use. For one thing the cell phone main lobes of their transmitter is not pointed skyward.

However, I will look at any and all sources anyone would bring forth. Learning is not a bad thing.

-- Posted by cannedheat on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 9:00 PM

When I tried to use my cell phone we were at cruising altitude over Ohio, so don't know if it was the altitude or just my phone. Were you at cruising altitude when you were able to make the call? I know I used mine on take off and landing many years ago and my call went through. But never got it to work that one time at altitude.

-- Posted by cannedheat on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 9:03 PM

We were desending over Las Vegas when I got mine to work. I have no idea what the altitude was. But like I said I only had 1/3 or 1/2 signal strength. It could have been an isolated incedent. I have Had enough fun today, talk to you good folks later.

-- Posted by minute-man on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 9:24 PM

Minute-man: I have never believed an aircraft, especially a 757, hit the Pentagon. I have seen numerous crashes and never saw a plane, passengers, crew, seats, cargo, and engines totally consumed. I saw all the photographs, video, and slides of an F-15 on the side of a mountain. He hit the mountain head on about 200ft below the peak. It was not a pretty sight, but a lot of wreckage was intact, armament was thrown about, and the engines were intact. I won't go into detail of the pilot. Suffice to say he died. The speed was estimated at 450 knots.

The other thing about the Pentagon was as the object never touched the ground even tho from the pictures it hit about 5 ft off the ground. One eye witness said the starboard engine hit a low cement wall and blew apart. But the authorities said no parts of the aircraft were found except one small piece of fuselage and one rim.

Here is what a data recorder [black box] must endure to be acceptable.

THE CRASH- AND FIRE-PROtection trials a black box must endure seem designed by Torquemada. A single unit must be shot from a cannon into a calibrated pillow to 3,400 Gs; stabbed by a quarter-inch hardened-steel rod attached to a 500-pound weight and dropped from ten feet; crushed in a vise at 5,000 pounds of pressure; and barbecued with blowtorches for one hour at 1,100 degrees Centigrade, then for ten hours at 265 degrees Centigrade. (This last slow bake was added because jet fuel burns at a lower temperature than gasoline. With fire resistant walls and upholstery on planes, the danger has become less a hot flash fire than a long-burning, cooler one.) A black box must also be able to survive for a month under 20,000 feet of seawater. This test is performed on a separate unit because it's unlikely that impact, fire, and deep sea exposure will all happen in the same accident.

Am out of here see you tomorrow I hope.

-- Posted by cannedheat on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 9:32 PM

Minute-man: I have never believed an aircraft, especially a 757, hit the Pentagon. I have seen numerous crashes and never saw a plane, passengers, crew, seats, cargo, and engines totally consumed. I saw all the photographs, video, and slides of an F-15 on the side of a mountain. He hit the mountain head on about 200ft below the peak. It was not a pretty sight, but a lot of wreckage was intact, armament was thrown about, and the engines were intact. I won't go into detail of the pilot. Suffice to say he died. The speed was estimated at 450 knots.

The other thing about the Pentagon was as the object never touched the ground even tho from the pictures it hit about 5 ft off the ground. One eye witness said the starboard engine hit a low cement wall and blew apart. But the authorities said no parts of the aircraft were found except one small piece of fuselage and one rim.

Here is what a data recorder [black box] must endure to be acceptable.

THE CRASH- AND FIRE-PROtection trials a black box must endure seem designed by Torquemada. A single unit must be shot from a cannon into a calibrated pillow to 3,400 Gs; stabbed by a quarter-inch hardened-steel rod attached to a 500-pound weight and dropped from ten feet; crushed in a vise at 5,000 pounds of pressure; and barbecued with blowtorches for one hour at 1,100 degrees Centigrade, then for ten hours at 265 degrees Centigrade. (This last slow bake was added because jet fuel burns at a lower temperature than gasoline. With fire resistant walls and upholstery on planes, the danger has become less a hot flash fire than a long-burning, cooler one.) A black box must also be able to survive for a month under 20,000 feet of seawater. This test is performed on a separate unit because it's unlikely that impact, fire, and deep sea exposure will all happen in the same accident.

Am out of here see you tomorrow I hope.

-- Posted by cannedheat on Tue, Sep 11, 2007, at 9:33 PM

Most of the calls from the airplanes were from air phones on the back of the seats. And it has already been proven that cell phones can work in certain areas over 40,000 feet.

-- Posted by Solelicious on Wed, Sep 12, 2007, at 6:20 AM

so you are saying that the calls from airphones, where passengers told their loved ones what was goig on were real, but the cell calls of the same nature were faked. LOL U make no since.

-- Posted by Solelicious on Wed, Sep 12, 2007, at 6:28 AM

Another question you nuts cannot answer. Where is the nation press coverage on this? Everyone knows how much they like digging dirt and how they distrust government and hate the republicans, but nothing from them. Hmmm. I have not seen CNN talking to some blurred out aircraft mechanic saying he loaded a F15 up with explosives and its mission was to run into the Pentagon.

-- Posted by Solelicious on Wed, Sep 12, 2007, at 6:44 AM

http://www.oilempire.us/pentagon-hole.ht...

look and read for yourselves.

-- Posted by Solelicious on Wed, Sep 12, 2007, at 7:05 AM

http://www.oilempire.us/pentagon-photos....

more

-- Posted by Solelicious on Wed, Sep 12, 2007, at 7:32 AM

Last weekend radio talk show host Alex Jones was with a large group of protestors in New York and was arrested. Who called the police on him? None other than "Fair and Balanced" Fox News reporter Geraldo Rivera...

http://www.infowars.com/articles/alex/al...

-- Posted by mobushwhacker on Wed, Sep 12, 2007, at 7:55 AM

America's Number One Collapse Expert Thought WTC Bombed FDNY commander said south tower implosion "too even" to be caused by jet fuel

http://www.infowars.com/articles/sept11/...

-- Posted by mobushwhacker on Wed, Sep 12, 2007, at 7:57 AM


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