Speak Out: GOD BACK IN WHAT?

Posted by Wilbur Right on Fri, Jul 18, 2014, at 7:02 AM:

We hear constant rhetoric about getting God back into. Government,and other things. Twice now, my girl friend and I have submitted speak out comments asking that God be put back in Church and Sunday School. They have not been published. It has become common, for Sunday School class to be used as a forum to bash Presidents or dwell on other political issues. If we are going to put God anywhere, it seems church would be a good place to start. Let's put Jesus and his teachings back in Sunday School, and leave politics to the pundits on talk radio and cable tabloids.

Replies (62)

  • wrcactus: Apparently there is no God allowed in S.O.

    -- Posted by Schaefer's World on Fri, Jul 18, 2014, at 8:45 AM
  • Semo471: I think it depends on who's God, the Conservative God, the Liberal God, the Libertarian God, the Catholic God, the Baptist God and so on. Seems S.O. does make a distinction. My wish is for the churches to return to the ONLY God, and return Jesus to Sunday School while removing Limbaugh and Maddow, the false Gods.

    -- Posted by Wilbur Right on Fri, Jul 18, 2014, at 9:00 AM
  • -- Posted by wrcactus on Fri, Jul 18, 2014, at 9:00 AM

    wrcactus, you were doing pretty good down to the last line and then your colors showed.... you only want to remove a portion of the false Gods. You want to keep the thrill up your legs Leftist type Gods it would appear.

    I'm with you if we can get rid of all the media Gods that cannot stick to reporting the news without an agenda.

    -- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Fri, Jul 18, 2014, at 9:20 AM
  • Have Wheels Will Travel: Perhaps you need to re-reed it. Last I heard, Maddow does not represent conservatism, but the far left wing. I want both Liberal and conservative pundits left out of the Sunday School class. Next thing you know, we will be debating whether Jesus was a Liberal or a conservative, and I being neither, would just a soon return to just the bible in Sunday School. Thats what it is for.

    -- Posted by Wilbur Right on Fri, Jul 18, 2014, at 9:40 AM
  • wrcactus, you are correct, I was thinking of someone else I have seen but do not listen to instead of Maddox, sorry.

    Just yesterday, sent a personal e-mail to another poster on here saying basically what you are saying about the Churches and their mission instead of what many are preaching.

    -- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Fri, Jul 18, 2014, at 9:46 AM
  • GOD BACK IN WHAT? - "It has become common, for Sunday School class to be used as a forum to bash Presidents or dwell on other political issues." - wrcactus

    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".

    I have personally never been in a church that ever said a word about politics. Ever. I have been in churches that talk about issues - abortion, poverty, marriage, etc. - but never said a word about any president or politician.

    Having said that, they are constitutionally protected to speak in their church and evangelize outside their church and cannot be prohibited in their free exercise thereof.

    I don't support everything they say or do and I don't get in a frenzy when they approach me and ask me to attend their church. I'm actually astonished by posters suggesting that the speech in churches or on media (Limbauh, Maddow, etc.) be limited or stopped.

    Just ignore what you don't like. Feel free to speak up.

    -- Posted by not_sorry on Fri, Jul 18, 2014, at 10:11 AM
  • "Having said that, they are constitutionally protected to speak in their church and evangelize outside their church and cannot be prohibited in their free exercise thereof."

    Dug,

    While that is definitely the case, I believe the Churches should have the good sense to stick to religion and while they have a duty to speak to moral issues, leave the partisan politics out of it.

    I have personally not been in attendance in a Church when they preached any particular brand of politics, but it does go on, for example, John Kerry appearing in a Church service while running for President, which was more of a political rally than it was a Church service.

    I am against abortion and believe the Church has the duty to speak in terms of the sanctity of life, but I do not believe the Church has a place in echoing a political issue such as wealth redistribution. Help the poor help themselves, YES.... artificially redistribute the wealth, NO!

    -- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Fri, Jul 18, 2014, at 10:35 AM
  • Help the poor help themselves, YES.... artificially redistribute the wealth, NO!

    -- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Fri, Jul 18, 2014, at 10:35 AM

    Agree. It does go on.

    I think churches should be free to preach about voluntarily helping the poor, they should be free to preach against the death penalty (even though I support the death penalty) - all issues.

    I think they have the right and people should choose the one they like or none at all accordingly.

    -- Posted by not_sorry on Fri, Jul 18, 2014, at 10:50 AM
  • Help the poor help themselves, YES.... artificially redistribute the wealth, NO!

    -- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Fri, Jul 18, 2014, at 10:35 AM

    Agree. It does go on.

    I think churches should be free to preach about voluntarily helping the poor, they should be free to preach against the death penalty (even though I support the death penalty) - all issues.

    I think they have the right and people should choose the one they like or none at all accordingly.

    -- Posted by not_sorry on Fri, Jul 18, 2014, at 10:50 AM
  • Rick, I was taught the church was the body of believers in Christ.

    My basic understanding was the government was not allowed to dictate a state church but the church was welcome in government.

    -- Posted by Old John on Fri, Jul 18, 2014, at 7:02 PM
  • Rick, You hit upon something there. Some Roman kings did project themselves as gods.

    Jesus was asked a trick question designed to declare himself over Caesar. He merely gave a trick answer intended to point out the existence of two entities, the kingdom of Rome and the kingdom of heaven/God. Kind of an original separation of state and church thing.

    -- Posted by Old John on Fri, Jul 18, 2014, at 9:38 PM
  • Theorist, I agree that there is only one true God.

    -- Posted by Old John on Sun, Jul 20, 2014, at 4:16 PM
  • I agree with you all. I don't think he cares what you call him, Rick.

    Buddha was a man, correct?

    -- Posted by Reasoning on Sun, Jul 20, 2014, at 5:43 PM
  • These two examples of a righteous nation says it all:

    I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

    "In God we trust" was adopted as the official motto of the United States in 1956.

    -- Posted by Schaefer's World on Sun, Jul 20, 2014, at 8:01 PM
  • Not ready to get into a religious debate but this thing about all religions worshiping and praying to the same god I do not believe.

    For a short time even Abraham was on the 'wrong side of the river'.

    -- Posted by Old John on Sun, Jul 20, 2014, at 8:20 PM
  • God created Adam then sat back and thought , "I can do better then this" .

    So he created Eve .

    -- Posted by ✴Rick on Mon, Jul 21, 2014, at 9:12 AM

    Rick,

    I always thought it went like this.

    God created the earth, and he rested.

    God created man, and he rested.

    Then God created woman, and since then neither God or man has rested.

    -- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Mon, Jul 21, 2014, at 10:42 AM
  • We are all out of wrack here. Every morning before the Congress goes in to session they have opening prayer both in the Senate and the House. Now, this is where people are all screwed up especially the fine Public School system we have and the City Governments which many do not allow any prayer at all and when you ask they said it is against separation of church and State and I say watch your highest government in the land every morning and watch the Chaplin give prayer. This is a decision that is made by some government locals the way I see it.

    -- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Mon, Jul 21, 2014, at 4:39 PM
  • Excellent point, Swamp. It is odd that our schools don't want God in them anymore, yet the leaders of our government have prayer. Definitely a double standard. Maybe we need to weed out the politicians responsible for the mess and make sure they don't ever hold another office.

    -- Posted by RELee on Mon, Jul 21, 2014, at 5:05 PM

    I disagree. Schools have God in them, God is everywhere. Children of Christians should be taught to pray whenever and wherever they want to. They should not be taught to grandstand. You don't have to pray "together", for God to hear you.

    -- Posted by Reasoning on Mon, Jul 21, 2014, at 6:15 PM
  • Whenever, wherever... just not however? If prayer is an individual thing, who has the right to frame how it is done?

    -- Posted by not_sorry on Mon, Jul 21, 2014, at 7:04 PM
  • Tonight while I'm praying on my "pray rug", I won't be facing Mecca....at least not my face side.

    -- Posted by Schaefer's World on Mon, Jul 21, 2014, at 7:40 PM
  • You can pray in public schools. The schools just can't force you into organized prayer sessions.

    -- Posted by left turn on Mon, Jul 21, 2014, at 7:43 PM
  • "I disagree. Schools have God in them, God is everywhere. Children of Christians should be taught to pray whenever and wherever they want to. They should not be taught to grandstand. You don't have to pray "together", for God to hear you."

    -- Posted by Reasoning on Mon, Jul 21, 2014, at 6:15 PM

    When did public prayer become grandstanding?

    Why is that blood curdling wailing done by the Muslims not grandstanding but public prayer by Christians is.

    -- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Mon, Jul 21, 2014, at 8:35 PM
  • I think the blood curdling wailing is grandstanding too. I did not mean all public prayer is grandstanding, and of course, I do not know what is in your heart. Standing around, intimidating those who do not join, acting like you have the fast track to God, that is grandstanding.

    -- Posted by Reasoning on Mon, Jul 21, 2014, at 8:50 PM
  • Some definition of public prayer is needed for me to follow this discussion.

    Is it one standing on a street corner in loud verbal prayer? Is it when three or more gather in His name and offer prayers of common concern? Is it an esteemed leader offering a prayer over a loud speaker at the opening of a public event? Is it a prayer offered in private in a public place?

    Just wondering.

    -- Posted by Old John on Mon, Jul 21, 2014, at 9:00 PM
  • "....schools won't allow open verbal prayer."

    The difference is simply that schools are for children and Congress is supposedly comprised of adults (that in itself is highly questionable) who should be able to make their own decisions about religion.

    Who decides about religion in schools? The teacher, the principal, the most influential student? What if the prayer leader is Catholic, or Jewish or (God forbid) Muslim, would you still want your children "led in open prayer" by some one whose religion you don't agree with?

    Best choice remains to keep open prayer out of schools and kids can pray to or by themselves whenever they want. As has always been the case, "as long as there are exams, there will be prayer in school."

    -- Posted by commonsensematters on Tue, Jul 22, 2014, at 6:33 AM
  • You can pray in public schools. The schools just can't force you into organized prayer sessions.

    -- Posted by left turn on Mon, Jul 21, 2014, at 7:43 PM

    The AM radio says otherwise.

    -- Posted by L'Espagnol on Tue, Jul 22, 2014, at 7:00 AM
  • "You mention Children of Christians . Why only those of the Christian belief ? Why not to each their own ?"-- Posted by ✴Rick on Mon, Jul 21, 2014, at 9:29 PM

    It is the only religion that I have experience with, maybe I should have said "Children of Christians would/should have been taught etc." I was trying not to speak for other religions that I do not know.

    I believe commonsense has the real answer here."What if the prayer leader is Catholic, or Jewish or (God forbid) Muslim, would you still want your children "led in open prayer" by some one whose religion you don't agree with?"

    My experience has shown that organized religion can be very competitive and are known to think their way is the true way.

    -- Posted by Reasoning on Tue, Jul 22, 2014, at 8:18 AM
  • Engel v. Vitale (1962), prohibited school-sponsored prayer in public schools;

    Abington School District v. Schempp (1963), prohibited Bible reading in public schools

    Wallace v. Jaffree (1985), invalidated an Alabama moment-of-silence law

    Sherman v. Illinois (2007) U.S. District Court blocked all Illinois school districts from requiring a moment of silence

    -- Posted by not_sorry on Tue, Jul 22, 2014, at 8:51 AM
  • The issue should be no issue.

    -- Posted by BCStoned on Tue, Jul 22, 2014, at 12:40 PM

    I agree. It is commonsense to me. If you believe in God, you pray.

    -- Posted by Reasoning on Tue, Jul 22, 2014, at 3:10 PM
  • Bingo!

    -- Posted by Reasoning on Tue, Jul 22, 2014, at 3:58 PM
  • One way to assure no one is offended by school attitude toward religion would be to give parents a voucher for the private school of choice and let government get out of the education business.

    -- Posted by Old John on Tue, Jul 22, 2014, at 4:31 PM
  • BC - the voucher issues have been successfully worked out in the past. There are ways to legally give parents a voucher that follows the student to any school - private or public.

    -- Posted by not_sorry on Tue, Jul 22, 2014, at 5:04 PM
  • The voucher system would be and is a socialist system.

    -- Posted by BCStoned on Tue, Jul 22, 2014, at 7:02 PM

    That's true. Barring a complete exit of the federal involvement from education it would continue as a socialist program.

    -- Posted by not_sorry on Tue, Jul 22, 2014, at 7:20 PM
  • BC, I understand where you are coming from and agree, but it would be an improvement I think. I would suggest we do away with all of it and leave it to parents to home school or choose the private school they like best but some parents like me aren't educated enough to educate and couldn't afford to pay for education.

    What's next, a trade guild?

    Uhmm, Job placement may be higher that way. :)

    -- Posted by Old John on Tue, Jul 22, 2014, at 7:24 PM
  • -- Posted by BCStoned on Tue, Jul 22, 2014, at 8:38 PM

    BC,

    After reading that article, I believe Walter Williams has more on the ball than most who write on the subject of the plight of black people. He reinforces what I have felt about the special treatment of any specific group of people. Let them alone and their light will shine. Give them equal opportunity to excel, not special treatment and they will.

    Same thing goes for the welfare system. We are screwing over those people by making them dependents of the state and robbing them of their pride in accomplishing something on their own.

    -- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Tue, Jul 22, 2014, at 9:35 PM
  • "...them equal opportunity to excel..."

    And how exactly do you and Mr. Williams plan to do that?

    "...are screwing over those people..."

    The alternative being to let them fend for themselves, starve, turn to crime, be jailed, be killed, whatever... It will their own fault.

    -- Posted by commonsensematters on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 6:32 AM
  • Common - the very programs you push got them there. The alternative is to give them their right of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and no more. They - like many other Americans - will figure out how to make a living in a country full of opportunity.

    Your "war on poverty" has created more poverty. I will agree with you on one thing:

    "The alternative being to let them fend for themselves" - that's a good idea.

    -- Posted by not_sorry on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 7:18 AM
  • -- Posted by commonsensematters on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 6:32 AM

    Common: The "bleeding hearts" and their social programs are what caused the mess that we are in today.

    -- Posted by Schaefer's World on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 7:44 AM
  • And how exactly do you and Mr. Williams plan to do that?

    -- Posted by commonsensematters on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 6:32 AM

    Common

    By treating all people equally..... regardless of their race, sex, religious affiliation or political persuasion and getting people like you and the government out of their way.

    Don't speak for Mr. Williams, but that would be my idea of helping all people succeed.

    Is that a simple enough concept for you to understand?

    -- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 8:12 AM
  • "...social programs are what caused the mess..."

    This is one of those spurious claims by conservatives that have so little basis in fact that they have to keep repeating it over and over again, if only in a futile attempt to convince themselves.

    Typical of the conservative conclusion that it's always the victims fault. Were those whining poor people smart and rich like us, they wouldn't need any help.

    -- Posted by commonsensematters on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 8:12 AM
  • The alternative being to let them fend for themselves, starve, turn to crime, be jailed, be killed, whatever... It will their own fault.

    -- Posted by commonsensematters on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 6:32 AM

    Common

    And you will be happy to explain to us how none of the above is happening to people today under your socialist programs.... I would presume since you made that statement?

    -- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 8:19 AM
  • This is one of those spurious claims by conservatives that have so little basis in fact that they have to keep repeating it over and over again, if only in a futile attempt to convince themselves.-- Posted by commonsensematters on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 8:12 AM

    Lets start with public housing. Maybe you'll believe many liberals like yourself. Professors who have researched the hugely negative effects of "free" public housing on the black race. By concentrating the poor into public housing gangs were able to easily recruit members, threaten the population and young black men lost many role models they could have had in their prior neighborhoods.

    Liberals like yourself say you are wrong common. I have the research links and documents that say you're wrong. Want to see them?

    Or do you want to just push the liberal talking points? Once you're educated on the disastrous results of public housing we can then move to your other "war on poverty" failures.

    -- Posted by not_sorry on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 8:31 AM
  • Unfortunately, our nation refused to give some groups equal opportunity to excel for decades. -- Posted by miccheck on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 8:20 AM

    "Free black slaveowners resided in states as north as New York and as far south as Florida, extending westward into Kentucky, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Missouri. According to the federal census of 1830, free blacks owned more than 10,000 slaves in Louisiana, Maryland, South Carolina, and Virginia. The majority of black slaveowners lived in Louisiana and planted sugar cane."

    Many, many more researched and published articles on this. One of the most brutal slave owners was a black man who owned slaves and a plantation. He used to punish his slaves by making one defecate in the mouth of another.

    Who are the "groups" you are referring to? The poor Irish that were indentured? The black slaves? The black slave owners?

    -- Posted by not_sorry on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 8:39 AM
  • -- Posted by miccheck on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 8:20 AM

    Nobody is saying repression was correct or justified.

    But I am saying that today's repression in the name of social justice is even worse. Look at the family unit once strong and now in horrible shape. We have only enslaved them once again and in a different way.

    -- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 8:52 AM
  • Because it's an open forum. You seem to be concerned about a "group" of americans. Who is that group? Who has treated them badly?

    -- Posted by not_sorry on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 8:55 AM
  • Who are the "groups" you are referring to? Who has held the groups down in the past?

    -- Posted by not_sorry on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 9:02 AM
  • Those in power - blacks, Irish, etc.

    -- Posted by not_sorry on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 9:06 AM
  • All races have been enslaved and denied rights/equality.

    All races have denied rights.

    Nothing personal, just a point.

    -- Posted by not_sorry on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 9:24 AM
  • Miccheck wrote "Unfortunately, our nation refused to give some groups equal opportunity to excel for decades..." and then asked "Why are you posting information from the pre-Civil War era?"

    I have no point in mentioning, just seems ironic.

    I would ask, what opportunities are not afforded to any minority via the rule of law established by this country?

    -- Posted by Old John on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 9:52 AM
  • "I have heard no meat on Good Friday but what do I know."

    Rick,

    I believe I have this correct... but the no meat for Catholics is Ash Wednesday and all of the Fridays of Lent. Church rule based on they would like you to do some penance. I'm usually in Gulf Shores during this period and am forced to eat things like Flounder, Royal Red Shrimp, Crab Legs....... you know something really distasteful like that. :-)

    -- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 12:22 PM
  • BC, I went through most of grade school thinking Friday was the only time Catholics could eat fish.

    The only fish my family ate fish was at school on Friday or whenever one of us caught catfish out of the pond. :)

    -- Posted by Old John on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 12:58 PM
  • Fishing maybe?

    -- Posted by Old John on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 1:16 PM
  • Fishing maybe?

    -- Posted by Old John on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 1:16 PM

    Good one!!

    -- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 1:21 PM
  • We're getting way off this threads beginning.

    -- Posted by not_sorry on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 2:37 PM
  • Wheels: New Hamburg had there picnic last Sat., the chicken and dumplings were great. When is Leopold's picnic?

    -- Posted by Schaefer's World on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 2:50 PM
  • Sorry, posted this on wrong thread.

    -- Posted by Schaefer's World on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 2:51 PM
  • Wheels: New Hamburg had there picnic last Sat., the chicken and dumplings were great. When is Leopold's picnic?

    -- Posted by semo471 on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 2:50 PM

    What the hey..... I'll go ahead and answer it on the wrong thread. It is this coming Saturday, July 26th. Always the last Saturday in July. Will I see you there?

    -- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 2:54 PM
  • Lemme get off this thread too

    Is Leopold the one with all of the bikers ?

    -- Posted by ✴Rick on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 2:56 PM

    No, not too many bikers out there, a few I would guess. But the Fried Chicken, Chicken and Dumplings and Kettle Beef are worth the trip. Might as well join the party.

    -- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 2:59 PM
  • - Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 2:54 PM

    Wheels: Can't this Sat. have family reunion. Eat some of the dumplings for me.

    Rick: They might throw some dog meat in with the dumplings or coon even.

    -- Posted by Schaefer's World on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 3:35 PM
  • Wheels, I haven't been to one of those in years, might come if I don't forget like 5 years ago when I said I was coming. :)

    -- Posted by Old John on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 3:48 PM
  • Will be looking for you Old John!

    Sorry you cannot make it Semo471... guaranteed no dogmeat or coon.

    -- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 5:56 PM
  • Rick,

    My personal guarantee on the no dog meat!!

    -- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Wed, Jul 23, 2014, at 5:57 PM

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