And the band plays "Who's Sorry Now". Or whatever the name of that song was. While she continues to irritate all of the right people. Quoting Dennis Miller.
Replies (98)
Sorry, but I have to call you out on this one.
What exactly is favorable for Palin? She quit her job. So what is "favorable"?
-- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Wed, Dec 9, 2009, at 12:05 PM
Lumber,
I posted a link... read it and you will know what I do.
Favorable is probably like beauty. It is in the eye of the beholder1
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Wed, Dec 9, 2009, at 12:10 PM
Who cares. ☻
-- Posted by Turnip on Wed, Dec 9, 2009, at 12:10 PM
Make that "beholder."
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Wed, Dec 9, 2009, at 12:10 PM
My wife and I are among those who have a favorable opinion of Sarah Palin, but I can't see either one of us voting for her.
-- Posted by D'oh on Wed, Dec 9, 2009, at 1:28 PM
Lumber,
I posted a link... read it and you will know what I do.
Favorable is probably like beauty. It is in the eye of the beholder1
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Wed, Dec 9, 2009, at 12:10 PM
For some reason, i have a hard time getting pages to load from clicking on links. (work computer)
-- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Wed, Dec 9, 2009, at 2:05 PM
My wife and I are among those who have a favorable opinion of Sarah Palin, but I can't see either one of us voting for her.
-- Posted by D'oh on Wed, Dec 9, 2009, at 1:28 PM
From that aspect, i can see that.
-- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Wed, Dec 9, 2009, at 2:07 PM
Ike,
Be honest, you wouldn't view her favorably anyway under any circumstance.
-- Posted by D'oh on Wed, Dec 9, 2009, at 2:57 PM
She may be a "quitter," but Obama is a loser. I don't care for either one of them.
-- Posted by voyager on Wed, Dec 9, 2009, at 4:04 PM
I cannot have a favorable opinion of a proven quitter.
-- Posted by Ike on Wed, Dec 9, 2009, at 2:12 PM
I certainly didn't get the feeling you disliked the president, after all he quit his position as senator.
-- Posted by non-biasedphilosopher on Wed, Dec 9, 2009, at 7:13 PM
where can i donate to her 2012 presidental run? please, please god, let her be nominated as the republican canidate.
-- Posted by riregrist on Wed, Dec 9, 2009, at 7:24 PM
Lumber,
This is the article that I linked to. Sorry it would not open for you.
Tuesday, December 8, 2009 4:57 PM
By: David A. Patten
Riding a wave of positive publicity from her book tour, Sarah Palin's favorable rating has crept within just 1 percent of President Barack Obama's job approval rating, according to the latest polls by CNN and USA Today/Gallup.
The results suggest Palin has fixed the dent in her popularity ratings created this summer when she announced she was stepping down as governor of Alaska.
According to a CNN poll released Monday, 46 percent of voters now say they like Palin. That's the same level of popularity she enjoyed before she resigned the Alaska governorship.
The same percentage of likely voters -- 46 percent -- say they don't like the former Alaska governor, a clear indication that she continues to be a polarizing figure. Not surprisingly, the breakdown is sharply along party lines: 80 percent of Republicans like Palin, while 70 percent of Democrats don't.
Pundits are attributing her rebound in the polls to a wave of popularity stemming from her new book, "Going Rogue."
Although popularity polls and job approval polls differ, the results suggest that Palin is closing the gap on Obama.
On Monday, a USA Today/Gallup poll reported that only 47 percent of likely voters approve of the president's job performance.
Obama apparently has become as polarizing as Palin: Only 14 percent of GOP voters approve of the job Obama is doing in the White House. That compares to a job-approval rating of 83 percent for Obama among Democrats, the polls show.
The Los Angeles Times' Top of the Ticket blog commented Tuesday: "The very same polarization [seen with Palin] now holds true for Obama, the fresh fellow from the old Chicago Democratic machine who was supposed to bring hope and change to a nation tired of divisive politics and the harsh partisan tone of Washington."
One big worry for the president: Since November, his approval rating with independents has dropped 7 points, USA Today reports.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Wed, Dec 9, 2009, at 7:46 PM
Read 'Going Rogue,' now reading 'Going Rouge.'
I hope Palin doesn't decide to run for president. The In Group might boot me out ... and since I couldn't bring myself to go over to other side (The Out Group?), I'd be so lonely ...
-- Posted by gurusmom on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 12:01 AM
wierd,
one that it compares the results for palin on one poll and for Obama on another.
gallup has Obama at 50% right now
here is a fairly recent article about Palins falling popularity...also from gallup.
-- Posted by futile_rant on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 1:24 AM
October 16, 2009, really is outdated in today's fast moving political world.
First paragraph of article.
"Riding a wave of positive publicity from her book tour, Sarah Palin's favorable rating has crept within just 1 percent of President Barack Obama's job approval rating, according to the latest polls by CNN and USA Today/Gallup."
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 2:20 AM
I would like to see Sarah do a live press conference in front of a group of seasoned reporters. Not have the questions given to her in advance and see what her response is. She needs to debate Gore in a stand up venue instead of shooting from behind a curtain on her facebook. There is no way she can go toe to toe with anyone that has more than an eighth education. That my friends is just plain (Palin) fact.
-- Posted by howdydoody on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 8:47 AM
I would like to see Sarah do a live press conference in front of a group of seasoned reporters.
-- Posted by howdydoody on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 8:47 AM
Or like - Katie Couric: Do people who live in Alaska actually read? Are woman smart enough to run for high office? Who will take care of your kids and cook for the hubby?
And: "She needs to debate Gore in a stand up venue..."
I like the "Debate is for losers" line. Well, he certainly fits that category.
It's almost as amazing that Gore lost to Bush as it is Obama narrowly winning over McCain and whatshername.
-- Posted by blogbudsman on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 9:05 AM
She needs to debate Gore in a stand up venue instead of shooting from behind a curtain on her facebook. There is no way she can go toe to toe with anyone that has more than an eighth education. That my friends is just plain (Palin) fact.
-- Posted by howdydoody on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 8:47 AM
Howdy,
You ever watched Gore speak? What about your Prez and his teleprompter?
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 10:13 AM
I like the "Debate is for losers" line. Well, he certainly fits that category.
It's almost as amazing that Gore lost to Bush as it is Obama narrowly winning over McCain and whatshername.
-- Posted by blogbudsman on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 9:05 AM
Does that mean there won't be a Palin/Gore debate?
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 10:19 AM
The results are in: Obama 52 percent. McCain 46 percent. The "Obama Landslide" is pure fiction. Republicans have no reason to move to Harper's Canada (this year) although Berlusconi's conservative Italy looks simply divine.
In 1988, George H.W. Bush won 53.4%, against a feisty Democrat, and a hostile media. Thus, this year's election is more of a symbolic made-for-television election story, than a mammoth landslide movie. Now it is time for reality to kick in.
My comment: But the real point is, wherever you believe President Obama started, there are strong indications that he has slipped greatly on the world stage, and is slipping even more greatly here at home. Now, this is not a good situation for any of us. I'm somewhat encouraged that his Afghanistan decision is an indication that he recogizes that American's expect to be governed nearer the center. Now that the press and media are starting to engage, this Administration will begin making more rational decisions.
-- Posted by blogbudsman on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 10:54 AM
My comment: But the real point is, wherever you believe President Obama started, there are strong indications that he has slipped greatly on the world stage, and is slipping even more greatly here at home.
-- Posted by blogbudsman on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 10:54 AM
Our greatest moment comes when he slips into oblivion and we can get on with life. Hopefully we still have a country by then.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 11:05 AM
Mom,
"Read 'Going Rogue,' now reading 'Going Rouge.'"
I'm still chuckling over your comment. I fear its a little too subtle for some folks like Caddyman.
"Rouge" is French for "Red."
-- Posted by voyager on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 11:22 AM
ANOTHER SARAH OPINION
Want the lowdown about Sarah?
By Dewie Whetsell, Alaskan Fisherman.
As posted in comments on Greta's article referencing the MOVEON ad about Sarah Palin.
The last 45 of my 66 years I've spent in a commercial fishing town in Alaska. I understand Alaska politics but never understood national politics well until this last year. Here's the breaking point: Neither side of the Palin controversy gets it. It's not about persona, style, rhetoric, it's about doing things. Even Palin supporters never mention the things that I'm about to mention here.
1- Democrats forget when Palin was the Darling of the Democrats, because as soon as Palin took the Governor's office away from a fellow Republican and tough SOB, Frank Murkowski, she tore into the Republican's "Corrupt Bastards Club" (CBC) and sent them packing. Many of them are now residing in State housing and wearing orange jump suits. The Democrats reacted by skipping around the yard, throwing confetti and singing, "la la la la" (well, you know how they are). Name another governor in this country that has ever done anything similar.
2- Now with the CBC gone, there were fewer Alaskan politicians to protect the huge, giant oil companies here. So she constructed and enacted a new system of splitting the oil profits called "ACES."
Exxon (the biggest corporation in the world) protested and Sarah told them, "don't let the door hit you in the stern on your way out." They stayed, and Alaska residents went from being merely wealthy to being filthy rich. Of course, the other huge international oil companies meekly fell in line. Again, give me the name of any other governor in the country that has done anything similar.
3- The other thing she did when she walked into the governor's office is she got the list of State requests for federal funding for projects, known as "pork." She went through the list, took 85% of them and placed them in the "when-hell-freezes-over" stack. She let locals know that if we need something built, we'll pay for it ourselves. Maybe she figured she could use the money she got from selling the previous governor's jet because it was extravagant. Maybe she could use the money she saved by dismissing the governor's cook (remarking that she could cook for her own family), giving back the State vehicle issued to her, maintaining that she already had a car, and dismissing her State provided security force (never mentioning - I imagine - that she's packing heat herself). I'm still waiting to hear the names of those other governors.
4- Now, even with her much-ridiculed "gosh and golly" mannerism, she also managed to put together a totally new approach to getting a natural gas pipeline built which will be the biggest private construction project in the history of North America. No one else could do it although they tried. If that doesn't impress you, then you're trying too hard to be unimpressed while watching her do things like this while baking up a batch of brownies with her other hand.
5- For 30 years, Exxon held a lease to do exploratory drilling at a place called Point Thompson. They made excuses the entire time why they couldn't start drilling. In truth they were holding it like an investment. No governor for 30 years could make them get started... This summer, she told them she was revoking their lease and kicking them out. They protested and threatened court action. She shrugged and reminded them that she knew the way to the court house. Alaska won again.
6- President Obama wants the nation to be on 25% renewable resources for electricity by 2025. Sarah went to the legislature and submitted her plan for Alaska to be at 50% renewables by 2025. We are already at 25%. I can give you more specifics about things done, as opposed to style and persona. Everybody wants to be cool, sound cool, look cool. But that's just a cover-up. I'm still waiting to hear from liberals the names of other governors who can match what mine has done in two and a half years. I won't be holding my breath.
By the way, she was content to return to AK after the national election and go to work, but the haters wouldn't let her. Now these adolescent screechers are obviously not scuba divers. And no one ever told them what happens when you continually jab and pester a barracuda. Without warning, it will spin around and tear your face off. Shoulda known better.
You have just read the truth about Sarah Palin that sends the media, along with the democrat party, into a wild uncontrolled frenzy to discredit her. I guess they are only interested in skirt chasers, dishonesty, immoral people, liars, womanizers, murderers, and bitter ex-presidents' wives.
So "You go, Girl." I only wish the men in Washington had your guts, determination, honesty, and morals.
I rest my case.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 1:14 PM
Darn it! You are not going to tempt me to pull apart Whetsell's list! Not until and unless that certain person decides to run for president.
Let's hope that doesn't happen; I never could stand to see grown men cry!
Not sure whether to ~wink~ or ~laugh~ here ... Maybe a little of both?
-- Posted by gurusmom on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 11:37 PM
Oops ... voyager ... You made me have to go plow through 'Caddyman's' comment to see what you meant! In all honesty, have to say that I'm fairly certain he/she doesn't know any more really about Obama than he/she does about Palin ... or vice versa.
Hmmm ... wonder what he/she thinks about the Black Caucus being a little ... um ... upset with our president because he isn't (so far at least) planning on giving Blacks even more programs to help with getting jobs? Have to say that (at least so far) that's one admirable thing Obama has done. We'll see ...
-- Posted by gurusmom on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 11:47 PM
gurusmom - most thoughtful people know what it takes to make sausage. And every political process can be 'pulled apart'. I thought the article was important for pointing out the perception of 'what get's done' during someone's watch. There's always history before and hysterics after, with shenanigans in between. Easy pick'ns. But, perception is reality. If the folks being governed feel they were properly governed, then they vote accordingly. What I don't understand is why woman are the biggest critics of woman in politics. Kinda that barracuda thing. And it don't matter to me, I come from a paternalistic grandfatherish kinda family. I'm waiting for the next Reagan to appear on the scene. Ain't us humans fun to watch?
-- Posted by blogbudsman on Fri, Dec 11, 2009, at 6:03 AM
Mom,
Sorry if I caused you any unnecessary work, but as you also have found out Caddyman's comments lack substance.
He's having difficulty understanding the history of midterm elections in which generally the party in power loses numbers. The odds against the Democrats do not favor them. The possibility of the Democrats losing control of Congress is very probable. Witness the antics of Pelosi and Reid, not to mention Barney Frank.
If the Democrats lose control of Congress, one or both houses, Obama's difficulties increase trying to more legislation. He will be forced into compromises he may not like or want. He will be unable to please his left wing base. And he heads into 2012 looking even more like the inexperienced Loser he is. American voters, by then, will know him better and realize he does not represent their values.
Its all just logic, a faculty absent in Caddyman's thinking.
-- Posted by voyager on Fri, Dec 11, 2009, at 6:14 AM
Vger,
Not that I'm sticking up for Cadman, for I never will as I believe him to be the most ignorant and racist poster here, but even if the Dems lose control of both houses there still may not be much of a problem for Obama to achieve certain goals. Utilizing the EPA to force CO2 cutbacks could be the begining of a new manner of using the powers of the executive branch to circumvent the legislature. Additionally, the seats lost by Dems could be filled with moderate, social conservatives. As such logic doesn't necessarily come into play. I am finding it harder to understand the "mob rules" mentallity that is increasing in so many Americans. It is never ok to trample the rights of the minority just because the majority wills it.
-- Posted by non-biasedphilosopher on Fri, Dec 11, 2009, at 2:09 PM
She needs to debate Gore in a stand up venue instead of shooting from behind a curtain on her facebook.
-- Posted by howdydoody on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 8:47 AM
I'm sure Sarah Palin would be the first one to agree with this statement. However, it's Mr. Gore that refuses to debate anyone on this subject. he prefers to make his statements through movies and speeches. He refuses any and all debate challenges, preferring to just dictate his views from on high.
-- Posted by Data48 on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 7:23 AM
Data: Can you provide back-up as when Gore refused to debate anyone on this issue? I may have over looked that. Just the facts, sir, just the facts.
-- Posted by howdydoody on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 8:31 AM
howdy,
I would be more interested in someone citing examples of when algore agrees to be questioned. This is something algore simply does not do. When he does, here is the result...
I found this also. I don't believe that a book signing is an appropriate place for taking questions. Neither did algore. Unfortunately book signings and rare public appearences are the only opportunities for individuals to attempt to debate algore...
And finally, when algore is given the opportunity to debate, he refuses to do so because there can be no question as to the existence of climate change. Notice how the scientists that support his point of view have provided "facts", yet the scientists that do not support his point of view have provided "opinions"...
-- Posted by Lumpy on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 9:07 AM
Why would Al Gore want to debate anyone? He's not in public office anymore. After Bush II and the supreme court stole the election from him, he decided to make some money touting global warming. Big, big money. Is there something wrong with free capitalism?
-- Posted by riregrist on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 10:40 AM
It only gets wrong when the fools are so fooled they start spouting the "Stole the election" crap.
-- Posted by Old John on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 10:46 AM
Theorist,
What is wrong with improving ideology and our governmental institutions as well as understanding among the citizenry. If you're going to soar with eagles you're occasionally going to run head first into a cloud.
-- Posted by non-biasedphilosopher on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 11:49 AM
Old John,
Please increase your knowledge of our Constitution. The Supreme Court had absolutely NO authority to step in like it did. Before you start calling people fools, you need to understand the way things are supposed to work in our election process. Bush II was elected ONCE in 2004. Congress was completely bypassed in 2000.
-- Posted by riregrist on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 12:02 PM
Nah! He was promoted in the same company...Geez philosopher, get your head out of the clouds.
-- Posted by Theorist on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 6:59 AM
Wonder if that would be bringing the corrupt Chicago "Company" to Washington?
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 12:32 PM
It only gets wrong when the fools are so fooled they start spouting the "Stole the election" crap.
-- Posted by Old John on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 10:46 AM
John
The case could just as logically be made that ACORN helped to steal the 2008 election. And if you equate lying with stealing, I suppose most politicians steal their victory.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 12:36 PM
The news I remember most was the 50,000 phone calls the Gore people made to Florida before the polls were closed, implying the ballots were rigged to count For Bush starting all the "crap". Fact was as in later elections, the polls were manipulated by left leaning precincts staying open late and then refusing to count the absentees. The constiution as interpeted then no longer supports your arguement. I humbly take back the fools comment. It was not meant to be directed at you although I understand your perception.
-- Posted by Old John on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 12:55 PM
I humbly take back the fools comment. It was not meant to be directed at you although I understand your perception.
-- Posted by Old John on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 12:55 PM
:-)
Nothing like stabben em in the heart with your pen!
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 1:09 PM
So now making scamming billions out of taxpayers is free enterprise.
Speaking of which, Scotty can beam me up anytime now.
-- Posted by Lumpy on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 1:25 PM
John,
I guess the mass mailings by the republicans to minority dominated precincts the day before the election telling them that they're polling places have changed locations has nothing to do with it.
I guess the uniformed "guards" hired by the republicans to stand outside these same precincts to "insure the peace" had no bearing on the outcome or influenced the numbers of voters.
I guess the republican tactic of sending "mailers" to democratic minorities and then denying them the right to vote when the mailers were returned as undeliverable had no influence either.
-- Posted by riregrist on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 1:32 PM
Lumpy,
I thought you all for unfettered, unregulated free enterprise. You know "let the buyer beware".
-- Posted by riregrist on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 1:36 PM
How many dems fell for the flyer saying Rebubicans vote on Tuesday and others vote Wednesday? Seriously, neither party has a halo here. But 2000 has been argued enough. I give up if you do. Now we can argue about something that may affect us instead of what could have been if.
-- Posted by Old John on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 2:06 PM
Agreed!
-- Posted by riregrist on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 2:06 PM
riregrist,
"Buyer beware" assumes that I have a choice in the transaction.
-- Posted by Lumpy on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 2:54 PM
Lumpy,
I don't think Gore is currently scamming the taxpayers. I was refering to his private company that sells carbon credits. His views on global warming maybe influencing the Obama admin., but so far, the cap and trade scheme is just an idea not law. I'll reserve my judgement on that matter until it happens. It'll probably end up just like the health care bill. The heart is in the right place but to get it to pass, it'll be watered down, full of loopholes, do more harm than good, and chock of hand outs to big business.
-- Posted by riregrist on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 3:52 PM
Spank,
John and I called a truce. Both sides were guilty of unfair manipulation. As to the Black Panther thing. I believe you are refering to a Faux News report by Leventhal.
Fox News' Rick Leventhal reported live from the polling place where Black Panthers were allegedly intimidating voters.
A University of Pennsylvania student reported that a Black Panther wielding a "night stick" intimidated voters at a polling place in Philadelphia. The Black Panther allegedly claimed he was "tired of white supremacy." An Obama volunteer on the scene disputed this account, saying there was no intimidation of voters occurring at the polling place.
When Leventhal went to investigate, he got into a confrontation with a Black Panther -- a certified poll watcher -- who denied the story and told Leventhal in no uncertain terms that he was not welcome at the polling place. Leventhal disputed his claims, citing election law which allows him to be within 10 feet of the entrance.
Leventhal could not confirm that the Black Panthers were on the scene intimidating voters, saying, "There's been no disturbances that I'm aware of, except what we've encountered here. But again, I want to make very clear, we don't know that any voters were denied entrance to this polling facility. We don't know that anyone was intimidated to the point that they decided not to vote here, but that was what some people were concerned might be happening with two Black Panthers, one of them holding a nightstick, out front."
Leventhal, ended up calling the cops. When they arrived, the Black Panther holding the nightstick decided to leave voluntarily to defuse the situation.
Faux News. If there isn't a story. MAKE ONE UP!
-- Posted by riregrist on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 4:10 PM
Faux News does not exist. It isn't even clever anymore, just stupid.
-- Posted by voyager on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 4:57 PM
When Leventhal went to investigate, he got into a confrontation with a Black Panther -- a certified poll watcher -- who denied the story and told Leventhal in no uncertain terms that he was not welcome at the polling place.
-- Posted by riregrist on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 4:10 PM
riregrist,
A member of the Black Panters has no more business being a poll watcher in a Northern City than a member of the Klu Klux Klan in full regalia does being a poll watcher in a Sourthern (or any other) City.
How does this happen anyway? Is this more of ACORN's work?
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 5:08 PM
Wiff,
I would say that link shows about what I would expect from a Justice Dept headed up by one of Chicago's politicians.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 7:28 PM
Dont expect a heated reply just yet. They are all watching Huckabe on Fox.
-- Posted by Old John on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 7:46 PM
"Although popularity polls and job approval polls differ, the results suggest that Palin is closing the gap on Obama." - David A. Patten
So Palin's job approval has gone up considerably since she quit her office? :-P Oh, gee, no, it was popularity, not job approval ratings.
Given the low intelligence of Conservative Republican Voters, I guess most didn't notice the apples-to-oranges nature of the questions, or that their right-wing source even noted the disparate nature of the questions, but still jumped to his unfounded conclusion.
-- Posted by Ediacaran on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 10:52 PM
By 2012 the American voters will be so sick and tired of the Chicago amateur's accumulated mistakes and bad judgment, they would turn to anyone else, even Palin, out opf shear desperation.
Anyone but Obama! Has a nice ring to it.
-- Posted by voyager on Sun, Dec 13, 2009, at 1:53 AM
-- Posted by Ediacaran on Sun, Dec 13, 2009, at 7:18 AM
riregrist,
The carbon credit market would not exist without mandates from the state. The state never considers the needs of the individual when passing law. Law = force. I am a non-violent individual, therefore I am anti-state.
Perhaps someone can explain to me how these carbon credits work. I am one of those mildy retarded red state citizens, so my interpretation may be questionable at best. But, it seems to me that the carbon credit system does nothing to prevent the emissions from being released, it just makes it more expensive to do so.
-- Posted by Lumpy on Sun, Dec 13, 2009, at 8:57 AM
Spank,
Anyone who wants to be involved in the election process and gets the certification, can be a pole watcher. No nightsticks aren't justified. Who did they indimidate? If charges were filed, it's in the public record. Give me one voter's name that filed charges. And finally, Faux News may have the highest ratings but that just means there are lots of idiots in this country watching it.
Voyager,
Please read the above statement again. It's clear your an avid watcher.
Wheels,
It's still a free country. People are allowed to wear what they want. By the way, a federal judge recently ruled that congress taking away Acorn's funding was unconstitutional. They're baaaaack!
Wiff,
It was a civil lawsuit brought against them by the right wing. No, and I repeat NO criminal charges were ever pressed against them. Leventhal, one your beloved Faux News reporters, himself stated that there were no disturbances that he knew of. That's because HE was the one starting the disturbance. I don't condone the black panthers bringing a night stick to the polling place but I thought all you tea baggers believed in the right to bear arms.
Ediacaran,
Sigh, I know. All we can do is try. Apparently, Glen Beck has been handing out more kool-aid than I thought.
-- Posted by riregrist on Sun, Dec 13, 2009, at 8:59 AM
Lumpy -
My understanding of the proposed carbon credit system is not complete - but sharing what I think I know -
There will be a total carbon emissions 'cap', or limit, set, either nationally, by state, etc.
* Each emitting entity will be granted a number of credits out of the gate, based in part on their current emissions as relating to this total cap.
* Should the entity emit less than its allotted credits for the given time period, then they can place the remaining surplus credits up for sale, or perhaps can bank them for future use to cover expansion, increased production or manufacturing, etc.
* Should the entity emit more than its allotted credits for the given time period, then they will be forced to go to market to purchase the balance of credits to cover its emissions, at the prevailing market prices. If the prices are deemed favorable, then they too can purchase extra credits for future use. However, these credits will likely have an expiration date, after which they can no longer be used.
Perhaps an example would help -
* Company 'X' is allotted 100 credits for a given timeframe. They end up emitting 95. They now have 5 credits to put up for sale, or to bank.
* Company 'Y' is allotted 100 credits. They emit 105. They now must go purchase these 5 extra credits from another source to remain in compliance and good graces.
This is supposed to be a zero-sum game, with the excess emitters covered entirely by those under the limit. The reduction in emissions comes from a decrease in the total cap, and the trickle-down of the new proportioning.
So now, Company 'X' is alloted, say, 90 credits for the new timeframe. If they haven't done anything to reduce their 'footprint', then they will be forced to go to market for the 5 credits, or to use the 5 credits they had previously banked for themselves.
Company 'Y' is in worse shape if they have done nothing, as they will need to now buy 15 credits, further increasing their cost of operation.
As the cap limit is moved downward, the supply of available credits will tend to be reduced, while potentially increasing the demand for these credits, should there be a lot of foot-draggers. We know what this shift in balance does to prices in a conventional marketplace - which will provide added financial encouragement for those over-emitters to do something. A very expensive self-correcting scheme.
Companies that are thinking ahead, and who are financially able, can bite the bullet early-on to expend massive amounts of money towards reducing their footprint, creating an addtional revenue stream through the sale of credits to offset at least some of the costs of compliance.
The severity of the impact will be determined by factors such as the original placement of the cap limit, and the rate at which this cap is decreased.
This cap-n-trade scheme has been used for other pollutants such as sulfur and nitrogen oxides - but it wasn't cheap, even though there were technologies available to remove the pollutants. The challenge with carbon is that there really isn't an economically feasible means, proven on a large scale, by which to reduce these emissions - yet.
-- Posted by fxpwt on Sun, Dec 13, 2009, at 9:48 AM
fxpwt,
Thanks for the explanation.
Is it any wonder that so many blue chip companies are on board and pushing for this legislation?
-- Posted by Lumpy on Sun, Dec 13, 2009, at 9:56 AM
Wheels,
It's still a free country. People are allowed to wear what they want. By the way, a federal judge recently ruled that congress taking away Acorn's funding was unconstitutional. They're baaaaack!
-- Posted by riregrist on Sun, Dec 13, 2009, at 8:59 AM
riregrist,
Free is debateable. We do not have the right to say what we want in all cases, or it will be called hate speech. That should be a personal decision to make, not the governmenet's to dictate. Our own conscience should tell us what is objectionable.
There was intimidation taking place at the 2008 elections and we both know that. I only use the KKK to illustrate, but if there were two of them standing in front of a polling place in Mississippi for instance, swinging a noose, what do you suppose would have been the end result? And they would have been forced to leave, I have no doubt in my mind. It would have been a form of peace disturbance, just as the black panthers were. I am sure you saw the U-tube video furnished by Wiff, I think.
Charge were being filed and they were squashed. I believe they missed one court appearance.
Regards ACORN... aren't you proud?
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Dec 13, 2009, at 10:13 AM
There has been a carbon credit exhange on an international level in the UE for several years now. They are now starting to see a drop in smog levels in the large metro areas and a drop in mercury levels in lakes and rivers(an unexpected side effect that's still unexplained). The key to making the carbon credits work is to slowly reduce the number of credits available. As the number drops, it gets more expensive to pollute thus reducing the overall output. The same procedure has been used here in the states for many years to combat the sulfur pollutants that produced acid rain. It's a proven concept.
-- Posted by riregrist on Sun, Dec 13, 2009, at 10:52 AM
riregrist,
Where do we sign up to promote black power?
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Dec 13, 2009, at 11:32 AM
Spank,
We are wasting out time. I already asked riregrist if he is proud. He is obviously ashamed or he would answer the question... wouldn't you think?
Off to pray over it.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Dec 13, 2009, at 11:45 AM
Wheels,
I answered you on another thread. I still didn't see any voter indimidation in those vids. It seems from the above posts that more people than the black panther is a racist. He may be a racist, but you guys were claiming indimidation. I ask again, if what you said was true why weren't criminal charges brought against him?
Spank,
Frankly, you'd pee your pants if you had to repeat your last statement to his face. Look at the big, brave man posting anonymously on the web.
-- Posted by riregrist on Sun, Dec 13, 2009, at 1:39 PM
riregrist,
Is it your contention that an action can only be a crime if it is reported and then prosecuted? Do some research on the number of unreported crimes especially sexual assault.
As to your last statement, neither of us know Spank or the guy in the video, so who knows; are you afraid of black people based on nothing other than their appearance, hmmm...
-- Posted by D'oh on Sun, Dec 13, 2009, at 1:49 PM
D'oh,
Have you've been reading the above posts? The cops were called to the scene, an investigation was done, and then no criminal charges were filed. Black people don't bother at all. In fact, I was married to a black woman for three years.
-- Posted by riregrist on Sun, Dec 13, 2009, at 2:54 PM
Sorry Gentlemen,
I can't play with you anymore for a couple of days. Got a business trip.
-- Posted by riregrist on Sun, Dec 13, 2009, at 2:55 PM
riregrist,
As is almost always the case, these things cover several days, don't always have a smooth flow of connected information and some people even change their opinion/position over time, so before posting I do not review all of the posts and may respond to a post in isolation; perhaps you should write a rule/guide book or something.
I was once present when a Deputy who had been called when a woman shot out the back glass of a guys truck, took her gun, gave her a "stern talking to" and returned her weapon and sent her on her way. This is an extreme example, but Police Officers do not alway take action when a crime is reported for a variety of reasons from lack of evidence, low priority, incompetence, fear, politics or a host of reasons.
I don't know if a crime was committed in this instance, but I don't believe anyone should be standing outside of a polling place like this.
Have a good trip if you aren't already gone, while I seldom agree with you, I enjoy your posts.
-- Posted by D'oh on Sun, Dec 13, 2009, at 3:18 PM
riregrist, have a safe trip. ;o)
-- Posted by Turnip on Sun, Dec 13, 2009, at 4:15 PM
Wheels,
Didn't you just love the parts about how this man hates anything and everything about us white "crackers"?
How about the parts where all the black people should go out and kill the white man and their CHILDREN.
Yeah, riregrist, this is the same man in your "poll watcher" comments.
I would love to take him out on a deer hunting trip. Just thinking about it makes me sick to my stomach.
-- Posted by SpankTheTank on Sun, Dec 13, 2009, at 12:35 PM
Just another drag on society. Whitey can never do enough for some of them.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Dec 13, 2009, at 4:17 PM
Isn't there something intelligent to discuss, like how to bake good MJ laced cookies?
-- Posted by voyager on Sun, Dec 13, 2009, at 5:08 PM
SpankTheTank,
My nephew goes to a machine gun shoot every year. My niece is buying her first handgun this year; went shooting the other day and LOVES it. I am going to try to help her decide what to get over the holidays.
-- Posted by D'oh on Mon, Dec 14, 2009, at 11:34 AM
D'oh,
That little Ruger LCP 380 Calibre shooting Glaser Pow'R Ball ammunition would fit nicely into a purse.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Dec 14, 2009, at 11:47 AM
Have_Wheels_Will_Travel,
I have seen some good reviews on those which are essentially identical to the Kel Tek, but never shot one. I have a Walther PPK/S in .380 though I usually carry a G27.
I recently bought my wife a smaller gun and after handling the Kahr PM9 and Kel Tec, she chose a S&W 638 which kind of surprised me as she usually prefers semi autos.
I have several guns my niece can try out as do my sons and nephew, but I will be sure she stops by Shooters to try a LCP.
A friend of mine awoke to an intruder this weekend standing at the foot of her bed; she is getting her first gun today. She called the Sheriff's Office and was told they couldn't get someone there for 45 minutes. Fortunately, she and her husband were able to chase him off.
-- Posted by D'oh on Mon, Dec 14, 2009, at 12:17 PM
D'oh,
I am afraid the coroner may have been needed if I awoke to find someone standing at the foot of my bed. I hope that I may never have to point a gun at another human, but given the the choice of thee or me... thee is not going to stand a chance if I can help it.
I do own an LCP as well as a number of others. Some say 380 calibre is too small, but better to have something like that with you than leaving a 45 at home because of size.
I like the Pow'R Ball ammunition for it, because I believe by it's design it should help eliminate feeding problems. And it's muzzle velocity and hitting power is a little healthier than some.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Dec 14, 2009, at 12:30 PM
D'oh, 45 minutes, Oh My Goodness. That's scary.
-- Posted by Turnip on Mon, Dec 14, 2009, at 12:34 PM
I heard a srory, not sure if true, about folks calling the police when they saw from there kitchen window someone breaking into their garage. The were told to stay in the house untill police arrived. He called back twenty minutes later to say they were in the garage now. He was told it would be 30 minutes before they would arrive. Wife called back a few minutes later and said no need to hurry, my husband shot them. Police arrived one minute later.
-- Posted by Old John on Mon, Dec 14, 2009, at 12:43 PM
John, I believe I heard that story as well. I think the end was he had not shot them but when questioned by the police, they asked him why he claimed to have shot them & he asked why the police claimed it would be 30 minutes. ☻
-- Posted by Turnip on Mon, Dec 14, 2009, at 12:52 PM
Have_Wheels_Will_Travel,
I have heard the same about the .380, but was comfortable with my Walther for daily carry for years. Rules changed I had to conform, so I put it away. I agree on the Safety Slugs as I had an OMC Back-Up that would choke on anything departing from the profile of a FMJ except the Super Vel which went out of production.
I agree on someone entering my bedroom. I keep a G23 with Tac Light close; pray I never have to use it, but will.
Now that I can do what I want, I am looking at a smaller carry gun as I am going unarmed most of the time.
Turnip,
Yeah, she couldn't believe it either and has always opposed private gun ownership as being alarmist and unneeded.
-- Posted by D'oh on Mon, Dec 14, 2009, at 12:55 PM
Perhaps way off-topic with regards to recent posts, but revisiting the carbon thing touched on earlier - found this paper discussing the correlation between electricity prices and carbon dioxide allowance prices when Europe turned their carbon-capping system loose. http://www.iea.org/papers/2007/jr_price_interaction.pdf
IMO, the charts on pp. 24-25 are pretty much on the OMG level - showing wholesale electricity price increases on the order of 50%-100% within 2-1/2 years, with a strong correlation between electricity pricing and CO2 pricing.
Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. :-)
-- Posted by fxpwt on Tue, Dec 15, 2009, at 6:41 PM
Gee, thanks, fxpwt ... Now, I still have Grandma's kerosene lamps ... and even have a small ice box (gonna be hard to find an ice man to deliver, though) ... but ... can't think of any substitute for powering up the computer--or Pops' TV.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I hope Palin doesn't decide to run for president. The In Group might boot me out ... and since I couldn't bring myself to go over to other side (The Out Group?), I'd be so lonely ...
-- Posted by gurusmom on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 12:01 AM
I like to think of us as 'Rebels'. Oh come on Guru, you'd feel better about yourself in OUR group...
-- Posted by Theorist on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 6:54 AM
Uh ... No, actually, I wouldn't. I don't do 'groups' very well (evidenced somewhat by my puzzlement over Palin's 'popularity' or by my total dislike and disrespect of Jetton even before his little, um, recent problem), because I'm not so opinionated about various issues that I can't sometimes see, or be convinced of, the validity of facts and common sense over hard-core political leanings.
It's okay ... I realize what a feather in your cap you might consider my joining could be. Yep! I'm grinning!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How many dems fell for the flyer saying Rebubicans vote on Tuesday and others vote Wednesday? ...
-- Posted by Old John on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 2:06 PM
Forgot about that, Old J! Sorry, but those taken in by that one almost makes the now-and-then suggestion that voters should have to take an intelligence test seem a little more ... um ... credible?
-- Posted by gurusmom on Wed, Dec 16, 2009, at 2:06 AM
Theorist,
Absolutely, scaring someone off is ALWAYS preferable to killing someone or any type of physical violence. These are very kind and considerate people who spent their lives counseling people with emotional, mental and substance abuse problems and taking a life would be very traumatic. Neither is physically able to defend themselves and have fairly limited options.
They made the decision to purchase a firearm on their own and based on their life experiences, education and mental maturity, I will not second guess that decision. I know from speaking with them that ALL other options will be exhausted to avoid injury and that a firearm will be used only when all else fails.
-- Posted by D'oh on Wed, Dec 16, 2009, at 7:45 AM
-- Posted by D'oh on Wed, Dec 16, 2009, at 9:40 AM
Thanks, D'oh. Sometimes, some people just want to believe that anyone with a gun available is just waiting for a chance to use it. And ... I'm not saying there aren't those who are ... but suspecting that they are in the minority.
Some of the comments after the article were disturbing ... Made me hope those people don't have access to a gun, and made me realize why some people may be against gun ownership for anyone. Because ... not everyone in this world are responsible, decent, sane individuals.
Fortunately, the intended victim in the article did have a gun, and seems to be a person who is responsible and decent.
All in all ... reading everything on your link ... I still support our right to own and carry guns ... because I believe that there are in fact more responsible, decent, sane individuals than otherwise. I would like to think I am one of those, Theorist.
Actually, I'm pretty certain I am ... If I weren't, the man who was standing at the wellhouse outside the back door at our isolated farmhouse over 40 years ago would not have gone back to the prison from which he had escaped.
I know ... the idea/purpose is to shoot the invader/attacker ... but at the time, all I really could think about was trying to scare him away by shooting over his head, letting him know that I was 'armed.' In today's world, today's maturity? I'd probably have filled him full of buckshot to protect my children ... because in looking back, I do realize that he might have been armed, and I might not have been fast enough to use that second shotgun shell.
-- Posted by gurusmom on Wed, Dec 16, 2009, at 11:29 PM
Gurusmom,
I did not read the comments as there are always "chest beaters" who have no concept of what it is like and may very well wind up cowering in a corner or those who espouse opposition to violence only to realize they are quite capable of and unfazed by its use. If you haven't been there you probably have no idea what you will be able to do or how it will affect you.
Actually the goal is to protect you and your family by whatever means "necessary".
The level of force will vary by the characteristics of the "attacker" and "victim". These will all be covered in any good firearms training program which I recommend for anyone who owns a firearm for personal defense. That certificate of completion may prove valuable in any legal inquiry/civil action depending on the situation and location.
To demonstrate how little time you have to react, have an individual who is in good physical condition, stand twenty-one feet or so away while you hold a rubber gun or something similar and without warning, run up and tap you on the shoulder.
Point Blank is no longer in business, but the facility is still there and has been taken over by SOTT-I at www.sottint.com and there is a facility in Sikeston at ReArms as well as one in Dexter though I don't know the name.
-- Posted by D'oh on Thu, Dec 17, 2009, at 7:18 AM
To demonstrate how little time you have to react, have an individual who is in good physical condition, stand twenty-one feet or so away while you hold a rubber gun or something similar and without warning, run up and tap you on the shoulder.
-- Posted by D'oh on Thu, Dec 17, 2009, at 7:18 AM
D'oh,
I suppose that I never thought a lot about that before taking the course, but have thought about it many times since.
I believe if someone rushes you in your bedroom, where he will most likely be less than 21 feet away, you had best act and act quickly. The intruder is certainly not there to tuck you in and kiss you good night.
And at that distance, a concern of mine would be, could you think quickly enough to aim and shoot, especially when you have just awakened. I have convinced myself that I can use the necessary force to protect my wife and myself, if the time is there to do it.
The whole scene is scarey, especially to older folks who are vulnerable. I cannot tell you how many times over the last ten years I have layed down and then wondered, did I lock the front door and turn the deadbolt. So far a get up and check it has always turned up a locked and bolted front door.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Dec 17, 2009, at 11:00 AM
Have_Wheels_Will_Travel,
We do not like to think "what if", but you are right, many locations in our home are much less than twenty-one feet and most often, we do not have a weapon in hand, which seriously narrows our options.
There was a time I felt the equal of any man, but those days are far behind me and in the world in which I live, my choices in defense strategy are to "identify and engage".
When in my home, my primary defense weapon is a Glock with a Sure Fire Tactical Light and Laser Sights, so I know I am not shooting an innocent and to speed target acquisition. I have also place Crimson Trace sights on my other handguns.
From past experience I also know I am capable of using deadly force and will do so without compunction.
Yep, I have done the door lock thing even though I make a habit of keeping my doors locked at all time, people do forget.
Alarms are an option, but can be defeated and some people find keeping a dog is a good early warning devise. In the end however, it comes down to an issue of self defense being up to each individual.
Fortunately, the likelihood of anyone breaking into your home is really very small. But, I must admit what happened to my friends has made me do some serious thinking.
-- Posted by D'oh on Thu, Dec 17, 2009, at 12:07 PM
D'oh,
My biggest concern is someone coming in while we are asleep. Like you I do keep the doors locked regardless if we are going in and out. I do have an alarm and to give me more time to be ready and identify, I plan to add to that a seperate infra red switch which will turn on the lights in the area where they trip it, allowing me to identify them (while I am in the dark) before they get to the hallway to the bedroom. One would think anyone with any sense would not enter a dwelling with an alarm going off, let alone stand in a lighted area once the lights went on. But then a drug crazed or drunken individual may pay no attention.
I hate to sound paranoid, but like you, I recognize the limitations age puts on a person. That song that goes... I am not as good as I once was, but I am as good once as I ever was, was obviously written by a middle aged man.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Dec 17, 2009, at 12:28 PM
Have_Wheels_Will_Travel,
Sounds like a very good plan and in all likelihood, it will deter all but the most determined or drug addled individuals and those are pretty few and far between. If you haven't already done so, you might consider a motion activated outside light in addition.
Research shows that most burglars do not want to encounter anyone and will not enter an occupied dwelling, but those that do are very dangerous.
I ca sure identify with your last statement.
-- Posted by D'oh on Thu, Dec 17, 2009, at 1:05 PM
Good idea on the motion activated lights. Had them around the house I sold.
Yes chasing away is the best plan. And if it can be done without waking me up all the better. I get cranky when awakened from a sound sleep. :-)
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Dec 17, 2009, at 1:17 PM
Rick,
So far so good, the bells and whistles haven't been going off.
My outside lights used to go on once in a while I am told. Probably a coon of some other late night critter. But the light didn't make a lot of noise, so it never awoke me.
Just don't want an incident like D'oh spoke of happening to his friend. I'm too old to fight... and unable to run.
I sleep good by the way. Till 9:30 or thereabouts this morning actually.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Dec 17, 2009, at 3:11 PM
It would be interesting to know what the woman who killed Ronnie Preyer last, year after he broke into her home a second time, thinks about home protection. Less than a week earlier he had broken in and raped her, additionally, threatening to kill her if she went to the authorities. Her landlord bought her the shotgun that may well have saved her life. As I remember the article, she glad to be alive. Just some food for thought.
-- Posted by non-biasedphilosopher on Thu, Dec 17, 2009, at 7:50 PM
What if they just go to another part of your house, into the hall to wait on you, or storm back in firing. If they hear you dialing 911 they know you don't have you gun aimed at the door. Not me. I'll take them out. They should not have been in my house. It would be another criminal taking the eternal dirt nap. There is a reason lawmakers passed the Castle Doctrine.
-- Posted by Mr. Wiffle on Thu, Dec 17, 2009, at 6:22 PM
Wiff,
This is bringing two threads together, but since nobody stays on topic anyway, I will go ahead.
Some of the liberal minded folks on here, who seem to think they have a lock on IQ cannot seem to grasp that there are people out there who intend doing you/me/whomever harm.
And speaking of IQ, I think a case can be made for IQ having little to nothing to do with degrees and education. Many people with below an average IQ wind up with degrees and end up in jobs they cannot handle. And many people with a higher than average IQ end up sucessful business people even with little to no education.
Case in point, I know a business who hired an accountant with a college degree, who showed proof of belonging to two honors societies, and it was found later... she couldn't explain the difference between a debit and a credit. Took a high school graduate with only two years of high school bookkeeping and a lot of common sense, several months to straighten out the accounting errors and put the company back on track after this lady was made available to the marketplace.
People with higher IQ levels usually are smart enough to know how little they really do know in the spectrum of things, and certainly do not flaunt it.
Common sense alone will get you a long way in this life.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Dec 17, 2009, at 8:53 PM
Wheels,
I wonder if she pays someone to do her taxes and balance her checkbook?
-- Posted by non-biasedphilosopher on Thu, Dec 17, 2009, at 10:01 PM
Philosopher,
I heard she should have. One month, I was told, she was in the 6 figures out of balance on the company's checkbook. This was a few years ago, and probably a few employers since.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Dec 17, 2009, at 10:12 PM
I hear that term "common sense" used a lot. And since the thread has strayed form original subject, may I add this. Where does one get common sense and how did this special talent evolve? My theory: As our ancesters settled away from the crowded cities and found themselves homesteading farms with neighbors far away, they had to rely upon their own thinking. No advisors, just what they learned day to day. If a mountain lion comes your way looking hungry, best shoot to kill because if you miss he may eat you. If some one says you caused it to rain by plowing the sod, dont go plow up a dry crop to save it. I've learned over the years that if it goes against what you think without any input from others, you are probably right and need other opinions only to prove it. But I could be wrong again.
-- Posted by Old John on Thu, Dec 17, 2009, at 10:49 PM
John,
Only thing I could add to common sense, you either have it or you don't. I believe you have it.
On the other hand, did you ever try eye to eye contact with the mountain lion. Did you ever try reasoning with him. How do you know he was hungry. Maybe he only wanted to plant a big wet kiss on you.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Dec 17, 2009, at 11:08 PM
Wheels, Thanks for your response. No, the closest was when the rangers told my aunt to stay inside because there was a couger in her garage. She straighened them out real quick. "Better look again, that's a Buick!"
Good night
-- Posted by Old John on Thu, Dec 17, 2009, at 11:18 PM
Good night John!!!
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Dec 17, 2009, at 11:34 PM
Menu
http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/sarah_palin_obama_poll/2009/12/08/296051.html...
And the band plays "Who's Sorry Now". Or whatever the name of that song was. While she continues to irritate all of the right people. Quoting Dennis Miller.
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