Speak Out: Massive Debt

Posted by swampeastmissouri on Tue, Mar 19, 2013, at 10:48 AM:

http://www.usdebtclock.org/I have followed these budget talks and the debt crisis for some time now. Rep Paul Ryan presented his budget last week which reflected by 2023 his budget would show our debt being 41.5 trillion dollars under his plan and under the democratic plan the debt would be by 2023 44.5 trillion dollars. Now were all adults you know and I know there is no way we will ever be able to bring this monster debt back down to where it was at the turn of the century, we are fooling ourselves if we believe we can. No way will this happen in the baby boomer, our kids and our grand kids generations. We are deep deep in debt all red ink and no daylight in sight not in our life time. So sad this debt sky rocketed so much just over the past 13 years and will continue to rise each year thereafter until it reaches the bottom which is right around the corner. Majority of the people are not really concerned with this massive debt, that is what amazes me the most.

Replies (38)

  • Seisachtheia. The logical solution. It will throw the economy into turmoil, but many, rich and otherswise, into the poorhouse, and eliminate such things as Social Security and Pension plan obligations. But, it will end the debt.

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Tue, Mar 19, 2013, at 11:10 AM
  • They do better than the average middle class working man today. They also receive reduced HUD rent, energy assistance, child care and more plus a huge tax refund at the end of the year and don't turn a lick all year long they do also hit all the food pantries in the area they got more groceries than what a grocery store has. They do quite well under this administration. When I go to Wal Mart and sit in the truck while the wife is shopping what I see I don't know where some people say some Americans are hungry, the ones I see should don't look hungry at all to me.

    -- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Tue, Mar 19, 2013, at 2:58 PM
  • "You can make a pretty good living out of being poor."

    "It's hard work getting out of doing work, but the rewards are worth it."

    "There ain't but a nickel's difference between the working man and the one that don't work - and the one that don't work has got the nickel."

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Tue, Mar 19, 2013, at 3:28 PM
  • Green eyed monster strikes again-- welfare envy.

    Each and every program listed has guidelines, limitations, checks and balances. It would be nice if ranters informed themselves, once in a while, instead of spewing hatred.

    If you know of someone committing fraud report the, otherwise contact representatives to change the law. And mind your own business.

    ***Nil, Medicare Part C aka Advantageis elective, and is an either or to Medicare Part B. Medicare Part D aka drug coverage is elective and partically funded at the tune of rougly an annual cost per insured of $300. Medicare Part B. Co pay has more than doubled in the last ten years. The point, changes have been made over the last 10 years.

    -- Posted by persnickety on Tue, Mar 19, 2013, at 3:50 PM
  • "And mind your own business."

    Since these monies come out of our, aka 'the public's', pocketbooks, these programmes are our business.

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Tue, Mar 19, 2013, at 4:27 PM
  • What people are not even thinking about is what will happen when we start paying 2 more points on our borrowed money? The American citizens are so used to filing bankruptcy they figure they can just start all over when they cant pay anymore.

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Tue, Mar 19, 2013, at 4:39 PM
  • "Each and every program listed has guidelines, limitations, checks and balances. It would be nice if ranters informed themselves, once in a while, instead of spewing hatred."

    Here ya go.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/poor_some_ugar_on_me_0Hq1d3iPnvj2RwpsEDS7MN

    It's not called green eyed envy? It's called pride. The liberals have the envy for anyone that worked their tails off and paid their fair share.

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Tue, Mar 19, 2013, at 4:55 PM
  • Shapley Hunter, Energies may be spent trying to change the laws or reporting fraud, but should not be spent judging those who legally qualify, as that is not a matter of public record and none of anyone's business (in my opinion).

    -- Posted by persnickety on Tue, Mar 19, 2013, at 5:02 PM
  • "When it's their free money coming out of my pocket , it is my business (in my opinion)."

    Good one! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

    -- Posted by notrump on Tue, Mar 19, 2013, at 5:11 PM
  • Green eyed monster strikes again-- welfare envy. -- Posted by monster_trucks on Tue, Mar 19, 2013, at 3:50 PM

    This statement is one of the purest forms of an "entitled" mindset that I've seen around here. When someone gives you their hard earned money and you basically tell them to "get lost" when they question how it is spent that is an entitled mind set. You feel you are entitled to a portion of my income? I'm envious that you are given my money to spend on your family.

    The money you receive on welfare is money my family is not going to get for their education, their food, their clothing. They'll get those things but will be shorted by the very amount you take from me.

    The entitled mind likes to use terms like "programs", "rules", "regulations" to put a wall of confusion around the facts. The simple fact is I'm being forced to give you money. That raw fact doesn't set well with the entitled because it sounds like laziness or thievery.

    Just my two entitled cents...

    -- Posted by Dug on Tue, Mar 19, 2013, at 6:00 PM
  • I think the real resentment comes from folks that work their buts off only to be a nickel apart from those that don't.

    -- Posted by Old John on Tue, Mar 19, 2013, at 6:29 PM
  • "portion of [YOUR] income" was spent on the following:

    If you or your family has sent your children to public schools, driven on a public road, taken a tax deduction, claimed Medicare benefits, filed for unemployment, received food stamps at any stage of your life, swam at Cape Splash, walked or rode a bike on a trail, visited a state or federal park, fished on a public lake or river, called 9.1.1, played golf on a public course, used the police or fire department, attended a state university, played disc golf, checked out a book at a library, flown out of ,Cape Regional Airport etc, etc, etc

    Everyone has received a form of "entitlements"! To suggest otherwise is simply ignorant and ludicrous.

    -- Posted by CSIP2016 on Tue, Mar 19, 2013, at 6:56 PM
  • -- Posted by monster_trucks on Tue, Mar 19, 2013, at 5:02 PM

    So you say we should just shut up and pay?

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Tue, Mar 19, 2013, at 7:03 PM
  • To suggest otherwise is simply ignorant and ludicrous. -- Posted by Reasoningly on Tue, Mar 19, 2013, at 6:56 PM

    If you can't tell the difference between ME enjoying public facilities that I pay for out of MY pocket vs. YOU enjoying public facilities that I pay for out of MY pocket - then you are ignorant and ludicrous.

    I pay taxes and get to use the facilities I pay for. I give you a welfare check and YOU get to use MY money. Get it?

    Again - the liberal approach is to confuse and gloss over the money grab. Who complained about paying gasoline excise taxes? No one here. So why do you bring them up?

    THE issue is welfare - EBT cards, section 8 housing, 99 weeks unemployment, food stamps, Obamaphones, etc. Can you tell the difference now?

    -- Posted by Dug on Tue, Mar 19, 2013, at 7:13 PM
  • Regret: I have been noticing by your posts that you must believe that the only people who receive welfare, food stamps, etc. vote democratic. Do you believe none of these people vote republican?

    -- Posted by left turn on Tue, Mar 19, 2013, at 7:22 PM
  • left turn 51.1% of them voted in the November Election. That is where the man built his base at was in the welfare communities, a lot of those people couldn't tell you who there congressman, governor or mayor was but they could tell you who Obama was because like they said prior to the election "I'm going to get some of that free Obama money".

    -- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Tue, Mar 19, 2013, at 7:41 PM
  • If you know of someone committing fraud report the, otherwise contact representatives to change the law. And mind your own business.

    -- Posted by monster_trucks on Tue, Mar 19, 2013, at 3:50 PM

    Each and every time I read another one of Monster's posts telling the 'Producers' in this country to mind their own business, the more I am convinced he/she is a left wing-nut and a 'Taker' in his own right.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Mar 19, 2013, at 7:54 PM
  • I am just a little touchy about someone telling me to mind my own business how my tax money is spent after spending the better part of 3 days putting my tax records in order for the accountant.

    And one thing you can count on, people like Monster make me double my efforts to find every legal deduction I can to keep the amount of money they mooch from me to as minimal an amount as possible .

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Mar 19, 2013, at 8:00 PM
  • Regret: I have been noticing by your posts that you must believe that the only people who receive welfare, food stamps, etc. vote democratic. Do you believe none of these people vote republican?

    -- Posted by left turn on Tue, Mar 19, 2013, at 7:22 PM

    No. There are some that was hoping Romney would breath some life into the economy and they could get back to work. That is now only a dream since Obama will only make things worse.

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Tue, Mar 19, 2013, at 8:09 PM
  • Everyone has received a form of "entitlements"! To suggest otherwise is simply ignorant and ludicrous.

    -- Posted by Reasoningly on Tue, Mar 19, 2013, at 6:56 PM

    But I paid above and beyond for mine.

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Tue, Mar 19, 2013, at 8:11 PM
  • swamp: If I understand your 7:41 post correctly, you are saying 100% of the popular vote that voted for Obama are takers.

    -- Posted by left turn on Tue, Mar 19, 2013, at 8:32 PM
  • "Shapley Hunter, Energies may be spent trying to change the laws or reporting fraud, but should not be spent judging those who legally qualify, as that is not a matter of public record and none of anyone's business (in my opinion)."

    And my opinion is that your opinion is misguided. You apparently missed my earlier post on another thread about the need to reinstate a level of shame into the business of receiving government largess.

    There is nothing wrong with needing help, and there is nothing wrong with taking help when it is needed. There is something wrong with taking help when it is not needed, as it steals from the one(s) proving it and lessens that available to those who do need it.

    There is nothing shameful about needing help, but it is shameful to take help that is not needed. We, as a society, have lost that sense of shame, and it is my opinion that we need to put some of it back.

    No one here named names, as far as I have seen, and I most certainly did not 'judge' any one person or persons. I merely provided some quotes I have heard over the years regarding work and welfare.

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Tue, Mar 19, 2013, at 8:56 PM
  • "Shapley Hunter, Energies may be spent trying to change the laws or reporting fraud, but should not be spent judging those who legally qualify, as that is not a matter of public record and none of anyone's business (in my opinion)."

    And my opinion is that your opinion is misguided. You apparently missed my earlier post on another thread about the need to reinstate a level of shame into the business of receiving government largess.

    There is nothing wrong with needing help, and there is nothing wrong with taking help when it is needed. There is something wrong with taking help when it is not needed, as it steals from the one(s) proving it and lessens that available to those who do need it.

    There is nothing shameful about needing help, but it is shameful to take help that is not needed. We, as a society, have lost that sense of shame, and it is my opinion that we need to put some of it back.

    No one here named names, as far as I have seen, and I most certainly did not 'judge' any one person or persons. I merely provided some quotes I have heard over the years regarding work and welfare.

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Tue, Mar 19, 2013, at 8:56 PM
  • And I do spend my energies trying to change laws. Part of the process of changing laws includes spreading awareness to the public they need to be changed.

    Civil Rights laws were enacted and other laws changed by shaming those who needed shaming into recanting their views. Almost daily there are those on here who try to shame those who oppose gay marriage into changing their views by suggesting that they are bigoted, are trying to suppress the rights of others, or have some sort of fear of homosexuals. I've not seen you chide those people for judging the ones who oppose homosexual marriage. Why is that?

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Tue, Mar 19, 2013, at 8:59 PM
  • left turn, I figure the ones that weren't takers were just plain ignorant.

    Where do you fit in?

    -- Posted by Old John on Tue, Mar 19, 2013, at 9:01 PM
  • OUCH OJ! :-)

    And I don't mind helping others either if they need help. When it comes to welfare, I wouldn't mind paying my "revenue" to them if they came over to my house and mowed my lawn, cooked food, did the laundry, cut and split wood, washed my care and many other odd jobs. But they don't want to work.

    You see - I'm being *forced* to give my hard-earned income to those entitled Obama supporters with their Obamaphones, etc.

    -- Posted by Dug on Tue, Mar 19, 2013, at 9:31 PM
  • OJ: If there are only two categories, as you say, then put me in the ignorant column. I won't be in the same category of p*** and moan all the time with you, Dug, and Wheels (aka McCain). The more miserable and unhappy you all are with Obama the happier it makes me. Sorry, Regret, I forgot to include you in the fabulous four.

    -- Posted by left turn on Wed, Mar 20, 2013, at 9:10 AM
  • then put me in the ignorant column. -- Posted by left turn on Wed, Mar 20, 2013, at 9:10 AM

    For once we can agree on something. You, as an advocate for "takers", are ignorant of the money we pay for your beliefs. I don't care what you believe if you would keep your hands out of my pockets. I might add "thief" to the "ignorant" self-claim.

    -- Posted by Dug on Wed, Mar 20, 2013, at 9:19 AM
  • "If you or your family has sent your children to public schools, driven on a public road, taken a tax deduction, claimed Medicare benefits, filed for unemployment, received food stamps at any stage of your life, swam at Cape Splash, walked or rode a bike on a trail, visited a state or federal park, fished on a public lake or river, called 9.1.1, played golf on a public course, used the police or fire department, attended a state university, played disc golf, checked out a book at a library, flown out of ,Cape Regional Airport etc, etc, etc"

    These things mostly fall under the concept of 'general welfare', which is quite different than 'entitlements', which constitute individual welfare.

    None of these things constitute taking the monies from the pocket of one group of citizens and using those monies to pay the bills of another group of citizens.

    In the case of parks and roads, for example, the citizens pay taxes into the revenue fund, and the government, whether local, state, or federal, obtains and improves the land, and builds and maintains the infrastructure for the general use of all member of the public. It is not designed to benefit a single individual or group of individuals. They do not limit access to these things only to those who fall under or above a specific income range, to only those who have or lack employment, or who otherwise are singled out because of their economic status. No one (with the exception of those who work to build and maintain them) receives a checque drawn upon the treasury by virtue of their existence. They are not 'entitlements' by any stretch of the imagination.

    Surely you can see the difference between using the public monies to build a park or a road, and using the public monies to pay the bills of someone who does not, can not, or will not pay them themselves?

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Wed, Mar 20, 2013, at 9:28 AM
  • left turn: I'm not saying all of the 51.1% of the vote Obama received were welfare collectors, but a lot of them, were it was one of his largest voting bases. His campaign was on the ground signing these people up millions of them and it worked it sure did help his campaign no doubt about that. Now, were finding out that people are saying in at least four States that they voted twice on that day and every one of them that have got caught up to this time are from that sector. Now, when you hand out free phones, increased food stamps, continued extended unemployment benefits and increased pell grants. Did the welfare sector play a major role in his re-election yes they did in a big way. These people should be required to find a job doing something before they are allowed to receive any type of TEMPORARY ASSISTANCE ONLY not a life time of welfare assistance. The working middle class is tired of carrying these people while our tax dollars are being wasted in fraud and abuse. left turn read this for starters.http://www.semissourian.com/story/1951419.html

    -- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Wed, Mar 20, 2013, at 9:43 AM
  • The working middle class is tired of carrying these people while our tax dollars are being wasted in fraud and abuse. -- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Wed, Mar 20, 2013, at 9:43 AM

    And don't forget the 22 new taxes in Obamacare that the middle class has to carry to give free insurance for millions.

    -- Posted by Dug on Wed, Mar 20, 2013, at 9:57 AM
  • "I'm not saying all of the 51.1% of the vote Obama received were welfare collectors, but a lot of them, were it was one of his largest voting bases."

    A lot of his support came from confused people who think it is compassionate to steal money from some people to give to other people who they believe to be more deserving.

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Wed, Mar 20, 2013, at 9:58 AM
  • There are people who believe they can fulfil their obligation to give generously by giving generously with money they steal from others. By using the government's taxation powers to perpetrate the theft, they hide the immorality of theft behind the legality of taxation.

    'Legal' is not the same as either 'moral' or 'just'. Most wars are legal. Slavery was legal. The holocaust was legal. The pogroms were legal.

    Just because you can do something legally does nto mean you should...

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Wed, Mar 20, 2013, at 10:03 AM
  • I for got that one Dug thanks for reminding me. I believe we will have to carry and pay for 40 million of them regarding Obamacare. They could at least contribute something like $10.00 per month hell they spend that on lottery tickets in one day, not counting the cigarettes and booze they buy every day this is the best they have ever had it these people are doing better than what the working middle class and small businesses are doing by a long shot.

    -- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Wed, Mar 20, 2013, at 10:33 AM
  • "A lot of his support came from confused people who think it is compassionate to steal money from some people to give to other people who they believe to be more deserving."

    You hit it on the head.

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Wed, Mar 20, 2013, at 1:05 PM
  • Did you notice the President submitted his NCAA bracket but still cant get that budget done.

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Wed, Mar 20, 2013, at 4:39 PM
  • He submitted his NCAA Tournament bracket but he has not authorized the construction of the Keystone Pipe Line where thousands could be put to work with good paying jobs. He has closed the White House Tours on top of that.

    -- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Wed, Mar 20, 2013, at 9:57 PM
  • One concern here with the debt deals with not so much the total amount, but the cost of servicing - er, making the payments on at least the interest due.

    Agree that some level of debt is a good thing for progress, such as on a personal level, where it usually makes more sense to go into debt on a house upfront than it would be to pay rent while saving to buy a house outright. For many home loans, though, there are guidelines and even restrictions on what the debt and related payment should or can be, relative to income.

    Not as versed as I'd like to be, but this somewhat-dated article kinda sums up the relative fears on this end - "The Federal Debt: How To Lose A Trillion Dollars", http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126413824

    "Most people don't pay much attention to the interest payments the federal government makes every year. They haven't had to. Debt service has been manageable, thanks to low interest rates and consistent economic growth."

    "...annual debt payments -- currently about $200 billion -- are set to skyrocket. CBO estimates that interest payments on the federal debt will total $916 billion by the year 2020."

    "Having to pay close to $1 trillion a year just on debt will necessarily crowd out other parts of the federal budget."

    " "In 20 years, if you look at combined debt service, Social Security and health care, those are going to cost us more than the current tax system is capable of raising," says David Wyss, chief economist for Standard & Poor's. "

    While the values and timelines may have changed for the better or worse over the past 3 years since the article was published, suggest one question is how much of the revenue is appropriate and sustainable to direct toward paying for stuff already bought? A follow-up question would be where is the balance between increasing revenue and decreasing payments that results in a balanced and sustainable economy?

    -- Posted by fxpwt on Sat, Mar 23, 2013, at 11:46 AM

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