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Traditional Values Down The Tubes At The Boy Scouts of America
Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 1:41 PM:

http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/359481/...



Replies

If this comes to pass, there is no Grandson of mine going to spend a weekend in the woods with Chester the Molester.

-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 1:43 PM

"I honestly believe there was no way the Boy Scouts could prove who was gay and who wasn't in the past , nor will they be able to in the future."

They can't tell who is homosexual, but 'gay' traditionally means 'openly homosexual', which is to say one who readily identifies themselves as such.

-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 2:38 PM

The BSA claims that it will not force the issue, just not fight it. OK by me, there are probably some gays who want to be scouts.

This comes from someone who almost made it a week in the BSA, perhaps for the same reason that I chose not to re-enlist in the military. It's hard to feel free when standing at attention.

-- Posted by BCStoned on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 2:45 PM

I do not have a problem with kids of the same age group. And like someone else on here, I cannot get to the point of using the word to describe happiness incorrectly. I have a more accurately descriptive word for it, and I do not think they should be scoutmasters.

-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 3:46 PM

Why would one automatically assume an openly homosexual individual would be a pedophile? Why would one automatically think an openly homosexual person would be less likely to have a healthy child-adult relationship than a openly heterosexual man?

-- Posted by Epictetus on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 4:26 PM

-- Posted by js68520 on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 4:26 PM

I've never assumed any homosexual is a pedophile and don't know that anyone above assumed it. Maybe you could enlighten us on this issue that pro-gay individuals struggle with.

If a person is gay and "born that way" then why should a homosexual person be allowed to shower openly with heterosexual men? Isn't that the exact same thing as allowing women to openly shower with men everywhere? Whether they like it or not?

Should homosexual men in the military be allowed to shower openly with heterosexual men in the military?

-- Posted by Dug on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 4:33 PM

Why, when many years ago you had a relative that was molested by a dirtbag wouldn't you be concerned?

Send your family members in to test your theories. I will do my best to see that mine stay away from the possibly present danger.

-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 4:35 PM

I don't think I want a guy checking out my kids junk anymore than I would want my daughter showering with a man for the same reason. This is going too far.

-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 4:40 PM

"Why would one automatically think an openly homosexual person would be less likely to have a healthy child-adult relationship than a openly heterosexual man?"

For the same reason that we do not have male girl scout leaders: we generally refrain from placing persons in close proximity with young children to whom they may be sexually attracted.

Heterosexual men are attracted to females. For that reason, we do not send them on overnight camping excursions with young girls, particularly not young girls approxing sexual maturity.

Since homosexual men are attracted to males, it makes sense not to send them on overnight camping trips with young men, particurly not young men approxing sexual maturity.

It's not a matter of assuming they are pedophiles, it is more a case of leading them not into temptation.

-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 4:41 PM

Straight men should not be allowed to coach girls athletic teams. Lead them not into temptation.

-- Posted by Dugtard on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 4:48 PM

Altar boys are at a far greater risk than scouts with gay scout leaders.

-- Posted by Dugtard on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 5:13 PM

Shapley, Good point, but along Spaniard's line of thought, exactly where do we draw the line? Teachers of all ages, coaches, counselors, church group leaders, 4-H, scouts, doctors, parent, step-parent, dentist, spending time with a family member, friend of the family, etc etc

A couple of good solutions, no matter the sex, sexual preference or group size: always have more than one adult "leader" on all activities (no private or alone time), always background checks on all "leaders" who spend time with children (nearly all pedophiles repeat their crime).

-- Posted by Epictetus on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 5:14 PM

-- Posted by Spaniard on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 4:48 PM

I've coached girls soccer teams for years. Please provide a source Spaniard of male coaches openly showering or sleeping in tents with girls on a soccer team. Try and stay on topic.

=======

Altar boys are at a far greater risk than scouts with gay scout leaders. -- Posted by Spaniard on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 5:13 PM

Source please.

-- Posted by Dug on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 5:16 PM

Altar boys are at a far greater risk than scouts with gay scout leaders.

-- Posted by Spaniard on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 5:13 PM

What are your sources on that "fact" Ike? Or is it just an opinion?

-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 5:17 PM

Seriously Dug? Have you not heard of the tens on thousands of boys molested by catholic priests for decades?

Priests are statistically more likely to molest.

-- Posted by Dugtard on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 5:19 PM

If any scout leader "openly showering or sleeping in tents" with any scouts, no matter their sexual orientation, there is a problem that should be addressed by the parents.

K-12 Scouts, never showered or slept in the same tent with any the scouting leaders.

-- Posted by Epictetus on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 5:21 PM

If memory serves, there is a whole lot more substance to scouting than camping trips

-- Posted by Epictetus on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 5:30 PM

K-12 Scouts, never showered or slept in the same tent with any the scouting leaders.-- Posted by js68520 on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 5:21 PM

What about grade 6-12 scouts openly showering with homosexual scouts of the same age? Or sleeping with them? I'm not saying that homosexuals are more prone to any attacks or anything. I'm just asking the question - if it is improper for 6-12 grade young men to be showering with 6-12 grade young women, then why is it ok for homosexuals - who were "born that way" - to do so?

==============

Priests are statistically more likely to molest. -- Posted by Spaniard on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 5:19 PM

Priests that have done that are homosexuals. You've made my very point why "gay" scout masters shouldn't be around heterosexual boys.

-- Posted by Dug on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 5:36 PM

"Priests that have done that are homosexuals"

No, they are pedophiles, which is NOT a synonym for homosexual.

-- Posted by Epictetus on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 5:51 PM

A false accussaion can ruin an innocent person's life for-ever .

-- Posted by Dissidence. on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 5:34 PM

Diss,

Check out what sexual abuse can do to a child. A child's life can be ruined as well. I do not believe in ruining anyone's life, but I am all for protecting our most vulnerable, the children who are our future.

I personally could give a rat's arse what anyone's sexual preference is.... just keep it out of my face.

And I do not care if someone wants to marry their pet goat. Save your invitation... I won't be there.

-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 5:53 PM

Priests that have done that are homosexuals"

No, they are pedophiles, which is NOT a synonym for homosexual.

-- Posted by js68520 on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 5:51 PM

Ok, what then are males who would rape young girls. Are then not hetrosexual. They sure as hell aren't homosexual.

I contend a homsexual can also be a sexual predator, which appears to contradict what you have said.

-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 5:57 PM

No, they too are pedophiles, which is NOT a synonym for hetersexual.

-- Posted by Epictetus on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 6:02 PM

Helpful and interesting information:

"Not all pedophiles are child molesters (or vice versa). "Child molesters are defined by their acts; pedophiles are defined by their desires," Blanchard says. "Some pedophiles refrain from sexually approaching any child for their entire lives."

"Most pedophiles have a definite preference for one sex or the other. But it's tough to estimate the percentage of pedophiles who are heterosexual, bisexual, and homosexual in their attraction to children..."

http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/featu...

-- Posted by Epictetus on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 6:12 PM

No, they too are pedophiles, which is NOT a synonym for hetersexual.

-- Posted by js68520 on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 6:02 PM

The point is... they can be the same thing. There is no separate clearly defined class that proves a pedophile has no other sexual preference. In my book a pedophile, molester or whatever you want to call them can have either homosexual or heterosexual tendencies.... bottom line they are both still a sexual criminal.

In other words you keep heterosexuals away from our children of the opposite sex in possibly compromising situations as well as you keep homsexuals away from our children of the same sex in a possible compromising situation.

Call me what you want, but I do not want my grandson on an overnight camping trip with a homsexual scout leader. If that is offensive to anyone, so be it, I am not into political correctness. I am into protecting America's children.... first and foremost, and especially the ones most dear to me.

-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 6:16 PM

Just be 100% certain the pedophile allegations are correct and not only be rumored or suspected .

-- Posted by Dissidence. on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 6:23 PM

I agree with exceptions. If they are professed homosexuals, why do they have to demand they be in possibly unsupervised situations around our children.

Do some other public service. There are things I have wanted to do, but have had to lower my expectations. So what, get used to it and get on with life.

Should I, as a male, be able to demand that I be awarded the open position of "Fitter" down at Ann's Bra Shoppe?

-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 6:32 PM

I'm not prepared to claim a bra fitter as a homo-sexual proffession .

-- Posted by Dissidence. on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 6:39 PM

Diss,

Nor am I. I believe as a heterosexual male, I have no more business in that profession as does a homosexual have as a scout leader.

-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 6:44 PM

"Priests are statistically more likely to molest."

Statistically more likely than whom?

-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 8:05 PM

"Shapley, Good point, but along Spaniard's line of thought, exactly where do we draw the line?"

The coaching of girls' sporting teams by men depends on the arrangements. I really don't think they should be allowed to coach teams teams that travel.

But, I've expressed my opinion on the current focus on sports within our educational system, and on the long-distance travel and removal of students from classrooms to travel hundreds of miles to distant sporting events. I'm no fan of it.

But, that being said, most schools have put in place rules and regulations that ensure that sufficient supervision by same-sex parent leaders or other chaperones are on hand to provide a watchful eye. But, alas! The Penn State scandal shows that too many let their guard down when it comes to sporting events.

The same is not always true of scout groups, who travel in small groups to remote locations.

-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 8:13 PM

I'm not aware that either the term 'heterosexual' or the term 'homosexual' are altered by the existence or non-existence of a legal age of consent. The definition applies to those attracted either to one gender or to the other, and is not age specific.

Since the gay ban applied equally to boys entering scouting and to adults wishing to be scout leaders, I think such distinction is meaningless.

We prohibit men from being girl scout leaders and women from being boy scout leaders largely because the possibility of sexual impropriety exists. The scouts put in place rules designed to prevent young boys and adult leaders from being placed in compromising positions. However, these rules are largely designed to avoid chance encounters. If we begin to place in the proximity of young men adult men or other young men who have a known attraction to men, then the chance of impropriety increases.

________

It seems to me there are more cases of pedophilia involving teachers and sports leaders than priests, particularly given that such cases involve a larger number of members, and include adults of both genders. I'm not sure that relying on person's memory of the number of cases they may have heard about is sufficient grounds to claim that priests are statistically more likely to molest children than other professions, such as teachers, coaches, counselors, or any other profession in which contact with children is routine.

-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Mon, Jan 28, 2013, at 8:30 PM

There are several ways to help teach a young boy how to grow into an adult man with-out the help of the Boy-Scouts .

Kinda what I was thinking, plus you're not teaching how to beg for funding.

-- Posted by Old John on Tue, Jan 29, 2013, at 12:14 AM

"We camped , learned to fish and create fires to cook out , identify wild life and plants , watch the night's stars shine , and enjoy each other's company alone ."

And that's all well and good for parents who know how to do such things and how to teach them. Scouting, methinks, exists more to allow those adults with those skills to teach them to the children of those who don't. At the same time, scouting permits the children to interact with their peers and to learn to work with them.

It's not unlike the arguments for and against home schooling. For those who have the knowledge and the ability to impart it, home scholing is fine. For those that don't, there are regular schools.

-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Tue, Jan 29, 2013, at 6:45 AM

Just keep your sons out of the catholic church and they will be ok.

-- Posted by Dugtard on Thu, Jan 31, 2013, at 9:19 AM

Ike please tell me your not a shining example of being "ok?"

-- Posted by Mowrangler on Thu, Jan 31, 2013, at 11:15 AM

"What does this statement mean ?"

Ike has issues??

-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Jan 31, 2013, at 1:06 PM

Spaniard, I don't think all priests are pedophiles, but one would never know if their priest was one with all the coverups.

-- Posted by BCStoned on Thu, Jan 31, 2013, at 1:44 PM

Just keep your sons out of the catholic church and they will be ok -- Posted by Spaniard on Thu, Jan 31, 2013, at 9:19 AM

And your daughters away from democrats. Apparently Dem Senator Menedez was having "relations" with underage teen prostitutes and failed to pay them for it? And of course the Democrat president that was getting a you-know-what from a poor female college intern. And the cigars?

Democrat politicians are far worse than any priest I ever met. You've once again proven how poor your judgement is "Spaniard".

And you've never given a single shred of "source please" on your statement about priests - vs. teachers? vs. protestant pastors? vs. democrat politicians?

Source please. I'll await your non-response.

-- Posted by Dug on Thu, Jan 31, 2013, at 2:36 PM

Wheels, I don't know what traditional values are. There are those that celebrate the Roman empire. Where almost every sexual act was common.

-- Posted by BCStoned on Thu, Jan 31, 2013, at 2:59 PM

BC,

Maybe that was not the proper terminology. I guess the values of my parents and grandparents would have been more appropriate. I am not into political correctness, and I am sure there are some homosexual men who could leave the boys alone, but I do not see the risk to the kids being worth not offending someone, just so he could be a scout master. I have been around those people off and on since I was about 18 years old, and have had things suggested to me that I did not want to hear, and a pinch on the arse when you have your back turned and there was no one around but another guy and my wife and I could see her ahead of me nearly got an antique dealer busted in the chops when I was in his store in Ontario some 30 years ago. I advised him that he could be whatever he wanted to be but leave me the f*** alone. I am sorry but it truly disgusted me.

-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Jan 31, 2013, at 3:26 PM

Wheels, I don't have the necessary power to feel the need of a man for sexual pleasure. Powerful men sometimes do weird stuff.

Women must have the necessary power, but are not usually weird.

-- Posted by BCStoned on Thu, Jan 31, 2013, at 3:45 PM

BC,

I don't know that power has anything to do with it. Personally, I just think they're screwed up in the head.

They can call it whatever they want... but in my book it is strange and unnatural behavior and I don't want it carried out anywhere around me. Do what they want in private.... keep it out of my face.

-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Jan 31, 2013, at 4:26 PM

Wheels,

San Francisco, New York, and Washington are probably the homosexual centers. San Francisco and New York are powerful banking and finance centers, and of course, Washington D.C. is political power.

Who hasn't heard of sexual misconduct among our Congressmen? Homosexuality is a show of power, in these cases, over underlings.

As far as homosexuality being immoral, I don't think it compares to pedophiles? It certainly doesn't compare to blowing up villages with women and children in them. Which is the most despicable thing I can think of other than drones.

-- Posted by BCStoned on Thu, Jan 31, 2013, at 4:45 PM

BC,

I have no problems with homos so long as they keep it among themselves. They do not do this. I have less use for pedophiles and that was my entire point, keep the homos who cannot keep it to themselves away from the innocent kids.

So far as blowing up villages of women and children, do not see it as a legitimate function of war, but do believe it happens. Not sure there is such i thing as a justifiable war... but it will happen as long as this planet is still spinning and populated.

Drones... you have a man in the White House who claimed water boarding was torture and uses drone which theoretically targets one and kills many. Collateral damage, right?

-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Jan 31, 2013, at 5:27 PM

BC, Since drones are the mostest of evil, should we resign to tolerate the lesser of evils?

-- Posted by Old John on Thu, Jan 31, 2013, at 8:51 PM

While some of the priests could have been gay, the vast majority were Pedofiles, who preyed upon altar boys etc. Being gay and being pedofile is fairly rare. Because thousands of priests molested male children, it can be surmised that availability, not sexual orientation, led to the abuse.

-- Posted by bball15 on Thu, Jan 31, 2013, at 9:26 PM

Wheels, gays are seldom molestors! That myth has been around a very long time. Your grandchild would be much more apt to be molested by a straight, family guy. Drop the false stereotypes.......they're just not true.

-- Posted by bball15 on Thu, Jan 31, 2013, at 9:31 PM

Bball,

What do you have with a Homo Scout Leader and a troop of boy scouts.... if you don't have availability?

-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Jan 31, 2013, at 9:33 PM

-- Posted by bball15 on Thu, Jan 31, 2013, at 9:26 PM

Please provide the source for your "thousands" of priests. You and Spaniard are loose with the facts and Spaniard seems incapable of providing anything other than his biased opinion. Thousands?

-- Posted by Dug on Thu, Jan 31, 2013, at 9:39 PM

Wheels, gays are seldom molestors! That myth has been around a very long time. Your grandchild would be much more apt to be molested by a straight, family guy. Drop the false stereotypes.......they're just not true.

-- Posted by bball15 on Thu, Jan 31, 2013, at 9:31 PM

Agreed.This is about the most Homophobia I have ever seen in one place. But, what would you expect.

-- Posted by 3forone on Thu, Jan 31, 2013, at 10:18 PM

I don't know anything about gays. I lived in California for years and never ran into one. I guess that they are pretty thick around here the way people talk. I don't get out much, so I'll take your word for it.

I do wonder about those who believe in God that feel that they have to do his/her work. Makes a person wonder how strong their belief is if they think homosexuality is a sin and they must punish them.

-- Posted by BCStoned on Thu, Jan 31, 2013, at 11:16 PM

BC

Not sure if that was aimed at me but, nothing I said was directed at or experience in SEMO and had absolutely nothing to do with religious beliefs pro or con. Nor do I see any need of punishing anyone so long as they molest no one.

-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Feb 1, 2013, at 1:30 AM

"Because thousands of priests molested male children, it can be surmised that availability, not sexual orientation, led to the abuse."

As Spaniard would say: Where is your source for this?

"...gays are seldom molestors!"

A source for this, too, would be useful.

-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Fri, Feb 1, 2013, at 6:07 AM

A small percentage fear "these people" to the point of manufacturing stories aka homophobia.

-- Posted by uranincompoop on Fri, Feb 1, 2013, at 7:12 AM

"homophobia"

An overused and misused word. Much like 'racism', it is used to stifle legitimate debate.

-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Fri, Feb 1, 2013, at 9:00 AM

An overused and misused word. Much like 'racism', it is used to stifle legitimate debate.

-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Fri, Feb 1, 2013, at 9:00 AM

Only the meek let such tactics stifle legitimate debate.

-- Posted by Dugtard on Fri, Feb 1, 2013, at 9:16 AM

Only the meek let such tactics stifle legitimate debate. -- Posted by Spaniard on Fri, Feb 1, 2013, at 9:16 AM

Agreed. That's why we don't stop - it is overused and it doesn't work.

-- Posted by Dug on Fri, Feb 1, 2013, at 10:16 AM


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