Well with about two years of unemployment benefits to look forward to along with the cash side jobs, what is the incentive of the employees to work. Free Obama cash.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Nov 16, 2012, at 10:17 AM
Well said Wheels. They will now get nice unemployment checks for 99 weeks, then they can move to Social Security disability, they'll get food stamps, "free" Obamacare and a new cell phone to boot.
The simple-minded Obama supporters just don't get it. Bring the fiscal cliff and let it all happen sooner than later.
-- Posted by Dug on Fri, Nov 16, 2012, at 10:29 AM
And Obama didn't even offer help as in "er..lets go have a beer!"
Have the unions lost clout since Obama won?
-- Posted by Old John on Fri, Nov 16, 2012, at 1:20 PM
Yes, It's Obama's fault that Hostess is going under. Not they they can't sell enough overpriced junk and pay their route drivers 20 bucks an hour or more to stock twinkies.
You people are clueless.
-- Posted by the_eye on Fri, Nov 16, 2012, at 1:44 PM
You people are clueless. -- Posted by the_eye on Fri, Nov 16, 2012, at 1:44 PM
Your reading comprehension is not good. Where did anyone here - anyone - say that it was Obama's fault? We are talking about all the freebies you can get if you lose your job. 99 weeks of unemployment is an Obama policy.
Olin ammunition plant in the St. Louis area (Illinois side) went on strike. The union refused to budget despite warnings of losing jobs. Olin moved the manufacturing to the south - Mississippi I believe - and the union workers lost their jobs. Stupid.
-- Posted by Dug on Fri, Nov 16, 2012, at 2:21 PM
All of these people would be working their shift right now if the union would have negotiated. Instead they wouldn't even talk to Hostess the last two weeks. The Teamsters looked at their financials and realized Hostess wasn't bluffing and the accepted theirs.
This can go along withe the 435,000 jobless claims just a week after Obama won.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Fri, Nov 16, 2012, at 6:10 PM
Regrets,
Obama will get up and huff and puff a little and tell us there is more work to do and all of the liberals will feel better and live happily thereafter.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Nov 16, 2012, at 6:18 PM
These people must be braindead. Why would you be stunned by something you were promised was going to happen?
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Nov 16, 2012, at 6:23 PM
They listened to the hall instead of thinking. I bet some of the union heads are sleeping with one eye open tonight.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Fri, Nov 16, 2012, at 6:48 PM
Knock, knock yourself. In as much as you didn't know an hour ago what year they first filed for bankruptcy, I doubt that you can had enough inside knowledge to know with a certainty that with some concessions that they were still going down for the count.
Could be it would still happen, but not a certainty.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Nov 16, 2012, at 7:00 PM
"Those managing the company have a responsibility to stockholders to make money"
Knock knock, anybody home.
Hostess is/was a privately held company.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Nov 16, 2012, at 7:02 PM
"And Wheels, you are also unaware, the owners hired an outside management firm to handle the bankrupty (ies) and production/company management."
Really, I am unaware of that? You assume a lot.
I also am aware of the stockholder status of private companies, I have owned several privately held companies. Also know that you were talking about a publicly held company.
I have to commend you though, you are a quick reader to cover for your shooting from the hip style.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Nov 16, 2012, at 7:18 PM
"The privately held Texas company filed for protection in January, its second trip through bankruptcy court in less than a decade."
MeLange,
From the ktvu article I posted at 6:23pm. Try reading it before jumping to conclusions.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Nov 16, 2012, at 7:27 PM
I might add, we may have been able to have civilly discussed this had you not tried your normal condescending BS. But that is your style, so be it.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Nov 16, 2012, at 7:31 PM
Businesses come and go. Sometimes, it is best they go, which allows better ran businesses to take their place. Hostess has assets that may fit better under new management.
As they point out in the Daily Reckoning, manufacturing is slowly returning to the US. Not rapidly, but returning.
-- Posted by BCStoned on Fri, Nov 16, 2012, at 7:37 PM
-- Posted by BCStoned on Fri, Nov 16, 2012, at 8:01 PM
A white house initiated petition is afloat to urge Obama to nationalize the company and allow the union employees to be co-owners. It's enough to make Dolly Madison proud!
Just kidding!
-- Posted by Old John on Fri, Nov 16, 2012, at 11:43 PM
Knock, knock, anyone awake here?
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sat, Nov 17, 2012, at 12:10 AM
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sat, Nov 17, 2012, at 1:24 PM
Rick
Dont ask......
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sat, Nov 17, 2012, at 2:08 PM
As a former member of the BCTGM, I can say this is not the first time that something like this happened. Do you remember when Bunny Bread had a bakery in Cape Girardeau, Sikeston, and Anna? BCTGM overstepped then and made it more profitable for the company to build new bakeries in Anna and move production. There is nothing new under the sun............but BCTGM does not seem to learn from it's mistakes.
-- Posted by Robert* on Sat, Nov 17, 2012, at 2:32 PM
Rick,
I realized this late in my employment with Bunny Bread when I realized the union rep had more in common with company management than he had with the workers he 'represented'. He had almost nothing in common with the workers.
Big government, big business, and big labor; they have a lot in common.
-- Posted by Robert* on Sat, Nov 17, 2012, at 3:41 PM
-- Posted by Robert* on Sat, Nov 17, 2012, at 2:32 PM
I had a couple of friends in Sikeston that was let go with 17 years in. They were mad at the union.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sat, Nov 17, 2012, at 4:32 PM
Here's the link to employee FAQ's. I would hate to be reading this as a fired employee. Thanksgiving next week, Christmas in 6 weeks, mortgage, car payments, due and NO insurance after this month is just part of their problems. Hindsight is a ******.
BTW it depends on the state if they will get unemployment since they walked out. Myself having to pay into unemployment I would hate to know someone could quit and still delete my account that I have to replenish.
I am not a union hater by all means but they are becoming their own worst enemy.
As far as saying a bunch of Yahoos bought it would be a stretch. People said the same thing about Harley Davidson when AMF bought them. There where a lot of problems during their ownership but otherwise Harley would be a memory. Now it is thriving.
The problem is a health concuss public creating a smaller demand for a unhealthy product. That company had a larger cost of doing bushiness than they did 10 years ago when sales were much higher.
They wanted 17% in employee contributions to insurance that had doubled and no matching funds for the 401 K. Plus the union was going to get 25% ownership.
Now these people are without insurance, a check, and looking for work in a poor jobs market.
I feel for the ones that wanted to keep working because they knew this would happen. That is the reason they need a secret ballot.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sat, Nov 17, 2012, at 8:03 PM
As a former employer,Employment security insurance is paid by the employer, unless it has since been changed. An employer has the right to challenge an employee who wishes to draw unemployment.
-- Posted by BCStoned on Sat, Nov 17, 2012, at 10:19 PM
My friend had a body shop with four employees. When things got slow he would buy an auctioned car with damage to keep them busy but pay them only the agreed upon guarantee. When the shop was busy they were paid 60% of labor sold but the guarantee was still better than what unemployment would pay.
Three out of four quit rather than accept the arrangement. The guy that stayed continued on and within five years the owner retired and gave him the business, came in part time to help him with the books and sold him the equipment cheap.
Three years later the new owner had five employees doing very well. The three guys that quit were back wanting to work for him and told no way!
Not sure the moral of the story if there is one, just thinking the union employees kind bit the hand that had been feeding them.
-- Posted by Old John on Sat, Nov 17, 2012, at 11:25 PM
How can unions keep on giving back, had they accepted latest offer they would be working minimum wage, now the owners can sell the rights to twinkie name and never work again.
-- Posted by Dexterite1 on Sun, Nov 18, 2012, at 6:55 AM
I had a couple of friends in Sikeston that was let go with 17 years in. They were mad at the union.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sat, Nov 17, 2012, at 4:32 PM
There was plenty of blame to go around, but in my opinion the majority of it belonged to the union. The officers of the union failed to educate the workers they represented in the realities of business. (Perhaps because they were also ignorant of them) Together they killed the goose that laid the golden egg.
When the plant in Cape Girardeau was moved to Indiana, the community there agreed to build a modern plant for them and lease it to them on favorable terms. The state government had a program which agreed to pay half the wages of the newly hired employees for a period of time, I think five years because the company had 'created' new jobs. The union created an atmosphere of tension which caused the company to look elsewhere and consider other options.
At first, I blamed the company but as my understanding of management principles grew my opinions changed. I still have a low opinion of government incentives which encourage companies to move from community to community or state to state. In my opinion these create more problems than they solve. Bunny Bread is one of those companies which now has an opportunity to take advantage of the demise of a powerful competitor.
-- Posted by Robert* on Sun, Nov 18, 2012, at 7:18 AM
~A point no one has touched on, WHO do you think pays for these bankruptcies? NOT impressed with companies who choose to write off their supplier debts. Thus this companies poor management snowballs down to all other companies in the supply chain.
-- Posted by Me'Lange on Sun, Nov 18, 2012, at 6:36 AM
I have been burned by two bankruptcies and I learned to be careful of who I gave credit to. That is part of doing business and the way it is.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sun, Nov 18, 2012, at 8:41 AM
Much is being made of the the assumption that since bankruptcy was filed twice, Hostess was history.
Does anyone remember a man by the name of Sam Walton?
Did he file only once.... or was it twice? Cannot remember, but I thought it was twice??
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Nov 18, 2012, at 9:49 AM
Sam filed when a landlord didn't renew the lease on his Ben Franklin store and left him broke. Lets see.... There's about million employees now?
You cam add:
The Walt Disney Company, Disneyland, Walt Disney World
Hilton Hotels
Hershey's chocolates
Macy's department stores
Heinz ketchup
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sun, Nov 18, 2012, at 9:59 AM
Little Debbie is hiring.
-- Posted by Simon Jester on Sun, Nov 18, 2012, at 10:04 AM
Rick
I was at the store last night and the Little Debbie endcap was twice the size.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sun, Nov 18, 2012, at 10:11 AM
-- Posted by .Rick. on Sun, Nov 18, 2012, at 9:54 AM
Rick,
Dexter makes up crap as he goes along. He would make a great poster child for the anti establishment group, or the Occupy Wallstreeters.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Nov 18, 2012, at 10:20 AM
I have been burned by two bankruptcies and I learned to be careful of who I gave credit to. That is part of doing business and the way it is.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sun, Nov 18, 2012, at 8:41 AM
It is fun to be a non secured creditor isn't it Regrets?
Last bankruptcy that the kids (my old) business had that I was aware of, they received a check as a non secured creditor for their part of the distribution after the secured creditors received theirs. I believe when my son-in-law showed it to me with one of those, would you look at this, it was for $.74.
But hey that was a plus, I don't ever remember receiving anything myself and you did get one of those notices from time to time.
Had a guy once file bankruptcy on the balance he owed me on an air conditioner. After the dust settled he wanted warranty service. I said I don't think so. He said the bankruptcy made me a new person. I said yeah I know and that makes you the second owner and don't wait for us to come out as there is no warranty to the 2nd owner and hung up on him.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Nov 18, 2012, at 10:31 AM
Rick,
Somewhere remember Dexter or someone saying he was supposed to be about 80 or so. He acts more like he is about 13.
Him and Suelynn both, but I know she is older cause she has been posting since she was only 8 or 9 if she is 13 now.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Nov 18, 2012, at 11:03 AM
Where was it written that Hostess was going to leave creditors unpaid?
-- Posted by Old John on Sun, Nov 18, 2012, at 12:30 PM
Apparently they have borrowed assets and are requestiong the court to allow them to use that money to pay employees what is rightfully owed at termination date but no guarantees of the court allowing that.
So there is one or more cash lender depending on bankruptcy court to get paid. I read no mention of suppliers that are owed but assume they too, if any, will depend on the court to recoupe.
Sell off of assets may still cover all debt.
Oh well, I don't look for the price of bread to go down and those Me'lange's Wheels buns will have to be of a different brand for a while.
-- Posted by Old John on Sun, Nov 18, 2012, at 1:07 PM
OOPS, Make that "Honey Buns"! :)
-- Posted by Old John on Sun, Nov 18, 2012, at 1:08 PM
Isn't it interesting the Conservative posters are supporting business bankruptcy? Suggesting it okay to leave your suppliers holding YOUR debts?
-- Posted by Me'Lange on Sun, Nov 18, 2012, at 12:13 PM
Isn't it interesting that you are reading something into conservative posters written words that is not there? Presumably to help prove you assertions of facts that are not yet facts.
One thing is for certain. We have bankruptcy laws, just or unjust. And they are at times taken advantage of by disreutable businesses and individuals.
Another thing for certain, it would be a rare business that issued credit, that did not experience the letter in the mail of someone declaring bankruptcy.
In one of those "Perfect Worlds" all people would make perfect decisions both the issuer of credit and the company or business being issuing credit. Then we would have no need of bankruptcy laws.
In the case of the issuer of credit, the trick is to keep bad debts to a minimum and never let a debtor get to the point where his bankruptcy causes your own.
You can be a conservative, and you can recognize the fact there are bankruptcy laws without declaring support of them. Who specifically did you have in mind that was supporting bankruptcy?
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Nov 18, 2012, at 1:31 PM
Mel
Do you like plagiarizing my posts?
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sun, Nov 18, 2012, at 2:31 PM
-- Posted by Me'Lange on Sun, Nov 18, 2012, at 1:56 PM
While several folks may have appeared to been blaming the union.... I don't see that as endorsement for the bankruptcy laws in this country.
Fortunately I have never had to even think in terms of personal or business bankruptcy.
But God knows I have been screwed over by them often enough that I have no love for bankruptcy laws in this country.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Nov 18, 2012, at 5:06 PM
Wheels
Had one guy to tell me if he would pay me even after the bankruptcy when he got some money. That was about 15 years ago and this summer I saw him driving a new truck with a new boat in tow at the lake. I never saw a dime of it.
Loaned a sis in law a couple of hundred one time and it was the best money I ever lost. She never asked again.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sun, Nov 18, 2012, at 6:52 PM
Regrets,
Had a genuis business operator from Perryville owed me a little over $5000.00 when he bankrupted. Since I happened to be in Cape the day he appeared in court, I thought I would just drop in and watch the proceedings. When he ran into me in the hallway it was obvious I was the last person he expected to see. He gave me one of those quick I will pay you when this is all over deals. The person I really felt sorry for was his wife. She was a really nice person and they really grilled her. Her hands were shaking and she was crying before they finished with her.
At least 15 years maybe 20 have passed. If I was in the same area this guy was in, he must have seen me first.... I have not received the money by the way, and I am smart enough to not pursue it as I would be the one in court then. He is a new person now.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Nov 18, 2012, at 7:48 PM
I learned to sell bad debts as soon as I saw a problem. A bird in the hand you might say.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sun, Nov 18, 2012, at 8:12 PM
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sun, Nov 18, 2012, at 9:28 PM
Isn't it interesting the Conservative posters are supporting business bankruptcy? Suggesting it okay to leave your suppliers holding YOUR debts? -- Posted by Me'Lange on Sun, Nov 18, 2012, at 12:13 PM
Bankruptcy isn't always a collapse and closure. It is sometimes to allow a company to reorganize and get better terms for it's debt. And there are laws to protect 1st liens, 2nd liens, etc. Then when a company comes out of bankruptcy it still has debt obligations sometimes on the whole dollar and sometimes at pennies on the dollar. And, yes, sometimes unions must agree to reduced terms for the firm to come out of bankruptcy.
What other suggestion do you have? Obama's only plan appears to be based on bailing out large union companies that vote his way - with taxpayer money. When a company goes belly-up it's not pretty for anyone.
-- Posted by Dug on Sun, Nov 18, 2012, at 10:52 PM
Look at it this way, nothing is lost. Twinkies will still be produced but by another company. Approximately the same number of employees will be needed to produce the product; they will just be employed elsewhere. It seems to me that everyone wins.
-- Posted by Robert* on Mon, Nov 19, 2012, at 10:07 AM
Twinkies will still be produced but by another company. -- Posted by Robert* on Mon, Nov 19, 2012, at 10:07 AM
Can I change that "company" to "country"? :-)
I wonder if twinkies can stay fresh on their way in from China? :-)
-- Posted by Dug on Mon, Nov 19, 2012, at 10:11 AM
I wouldn't remember what a Twinkie tasted like it has been so long since I had one. I would bet it has been 40 years at least. Never did have that big a fascination for junk food.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Nov 19, 2012, at 11:02 AM
The bankruptcy of Hostess Bakeries and selling off of it's assets provides opportunity for many people; including and especially the union.
If management was the problem.................
If greedy investment bankers were the problem............
The BCTGM has the same opportunity other groups have, plus a unique advantage. With the UAW, the AFL-CIO, and affiliated organizations, the union has both the opportunity and the ability to purchase the bakeries and the rights to the Hostess name and it's products. The skilled work force is already there. The union has the opportunity to prove to the world (and all the doubters and naysayers on this thread) that the company was mismanaged and sold off by investment bankers for an unfair windfall profit.
Now is the time for the union to act and allow the workers of this world to enjoy all the profits made from the fruits of their labor. The skilled labor force is already there, the distribution system is established, and the demand for their product is there. All that is required of them is to purchase the bakeries and produce the product. Workers of the world unite!
-- Posted by Robert* on Mon, Nov 19, 2012, at 11:46 AM
Robert, There are a lot of employee owned companies. They make up their own union I would think. Are there any successful union owned companies that are doing well?
-- Posted by Old John on Mon, Nov 19, 2012, at 12:18 PM
Like politics , both sides , the company and the union have dug their heels in and refuse to find a common solution for the company to continue to grow and job security .
-- Posted by .Rick. on Mon, Nov 19, 2012, at 1:07 PM
The company was at the end of their rope. They said they couldn't survive the walkout and meant it. Just like this election people were told what to believe and believe me they will pay for it the same way.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Mon, Nov 19, 2012, at 4:56 PM
Workers of the world unite! -- Posted by Robert* on Mon, Nov 19, 2012, at 11:46 AM
They're waiting on their $50 BILLION bailout check from Obama but he's in Burma or Myanmar or somewhere on the other side of the earth. They'll have to wait until he returns.
-- Posted by Dug on Mon, Nov 19, 2012, at 7:56 PM
Well it's all over. I feel for the workers that have lost their jobs by listening to someone else.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Wed, Nov 21, 2012, at 5:21 PM
The striking employees voted 87% to strike. They chose this path.
-- Posted by left turn on Wed, Nov 21, 2012, at 5:33 PM
Honestly I feel that the prospect of 99 weeks of unemployment, food stamps, medicaid, etc. are just too tempting to pass up. If there were none of these programs I bet the vote would have been different. When it truly gets down to your job or nothing I believe most will choose their job - or get another job if possible.
-- Posted by Dug on Wed, Nov 21, 2012, at 5:41 PM
Regret, I guess you'll just have to deep fry donuts on Thanksgiving instead.
-- Posted by Old John on Wed, Nov 21, 2012, at 5:45 PM
The striking employees voted 87% to strike. They chose this path.
-- Posted by left turn on Wed, Nov 21, 2012, at 5:33 PM
How do you know I wasn't talking about Obama voters?
Just kidding.
The problem is NO secret ballot. Wanna get harassed? Vote not to strike.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Wed, Nov 21, 2012, at 7:12 PM
OJ
The future deep fried turkey is marinating.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Wed, Nov 21, 2012, at 7:14 PM
If the company is sold in tact, equipment, real estate and recipies, I wouldn't be surprised to hear they rehire with higher wages and less benefits. [non union]
In the meantime more than a couple of places sell a pretty similar product.
I still miss the oulet place [Wonder Bread] on Kingshighway and now I'll have less excuse to go to Jackson and stop in at Dents Makes Cents.
Oh well, if nothing ever changed more people would be drinking Fresca and Falstaff.
-- Posted by Old John on Wed, Nov 21, 2012, at 10:22 PM
Little Debbie is making a killing off of this.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Wed, Nov 21, 2012, at 10:44 PM
Am I not mistaken in thinking Lil' Debbie is delivered by independent distributers?
Seems the independent distributer would have more incentive to deliver and sell product than a union company truck driver.
Of course I remember the three sometimes four competing bread trucks that delivered to the corner grocer. It was a constant battle of profit based on low cost vs percieved quality and sales that kept prices in check plus there was always a person behind the product that influenced which brand got the wider eye level shelf.
Harts, Colonial, Wonder and Bunny Bread.
-- Posted by Old John on Wed, Nov 21, 2012, at 11:22 PM
My friend that worked in Sikeston said if you ever got a whiff of the Cinnamon when they opened the barrel you would feel different about it.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Thu, Nov 22, 2012, at 8:42 AM
Subject: How twinkies bakery was divided up
You may have heard that Hostess Bakery plants shut down due to a workers' strike. But you may not have heard how It was split up. The State Department hired all the Twinkies, the Secret Service hired all the HoHos, the generals are sleeping with the Cupcakes and the voters sent all the Ding Dongs to Congress.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Nov 29, 2012, at 1:08 PM
Me'Lange, I got up yesterday and spent my breakfast time trying to find something in the closet that still fit me fit to wear to a funeral. 4pm before we had time to think about food and by then I was getting comfortable with the empty feeling. After a snack and some stuff to do, well it was bed time before I knew it and I woke up no more hungry than if I had been to an all you can eat place the day before. My brother I think still practices fasting, a couple of days a month with nothing but water/coffee. Says it makes him appreciate what he has been blessed with more.
-- Posted by Old John on Thu, Nov 29, 2012, at 6:36 PM
You may have heard that Hostess Bakery plants shut down due to a workers' strike. But you may not have heard how It was split up. The State Department hired all the Twinkies, the Secret Service hired all the HoHos, the generals are sleeping with the Cupcakes and the voters sent all the Ding Dongs to Congress.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Nov 29, 2012, at 1:08 PM
You forgot the Zingers. Where did they go?
-- Posted by Old John on Thu, Nov 29, 2012, at 7:20 PM
"You forgot the Zingers. Where did they go?"
We try to post there here on these threads, though they sometimes come up short...
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Fri, Nov 30, 2012, at 6:15 AM
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http://www.nbcnews.com/business/hostess-...
Replies
Well with about two years of unemployment benefits to look forward to along with the cash side jobs, what is the incentive of the employees to work. Free Obama cash.
Well said Wheels. They will now get nice unemployment checks for 99 weeks, then they can move to Social Security disability, they'll get food stamps, "free" Obamacare and a new cell phone to boot.
The simple-minded Obama supporters just don't get it. Bring the fiscal cliff and let it all happen sooner than later.
And Obama didn't even offer help as in "er..lets go have a beer!"
Have the unions lost clout since Obama won?
Yes, It's Obama's fault that Hostess is going under. Not they they can't sell enough overpriced junk and pay their route drivers 20 bucks an hour or more to stock twinkies.
You people are clueless.
You people are clueless. -- Posted by the_eye on Fri, Nov 16, 2012, at 1:44 PM
Your reading comprehension is not good. Where did anyone here - anyone - say that it was Obama's fault? We are talking about all the freebies you can get if you lose your job. 99 weeks of unemployment is an Obama policy.
Olin ammunition plant in the St. Louis area (Illinois side) went on strike. The union refused to budget despite warnings of losing jobs. Olin moved the manufacturing to the south - Mississippi I believe - and the union workers lost their jobs. Stupid.
All of these people would be working their shift right now if the union would have negotiated. Instead they wouldn't even talk to Hostess the last two weeks. The Teamsters looked at their financials and realized Hostess wasn't bluffing and the accepted theirs.
This can go along withe the 435,000 jobless claims just a week after Obama won.
Regrets,
Obama will get up and huff and puff a little and tell us there is more work to do and all of the liberals will feel better and live happily thereafter.
Headlines from Oakland California.
"Local strikers stunned by Hostess shutdown"
http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/local/bay-...
These people must be braindead. Why would you be stunned by something you were promised was going to happen?
They listened to the hall instead of thinking. I bet some of the union heads are sleeping with one eye open tonight.
Knock, knock yourself. In as much as you didn't know an hour ago what year they first filed for bankruptcy, I doubt that you can had enough inside knowledge to know with a certainty that with some concessions that they were still going down for the count.
Could be it would still happen, but not a certainty.
"Those managing the company have a responsibility to stockholders to make money"
Knock knock, anybody home.
Hostess is/was a privately held company.
"And Wheels, you are also unaware, the owners hired an outside management firm to handle the bankrupty (ies) and production/company management."
Really, I am unaware of that? You assume a lot.
I also am aware of the stockholder status of private companies, I have owned several privately held companies. Also know that you were talking about a publicly held company.
I have to commend you though, you are a quick reader to cover for your shooting from the hip style.
"The privately held Texas company filed for protection in January, its second trip through bankruptcy court in less than a decade."
MeLange,
From the ktvu article I posted at 6:23pm. Try reading it before jumping to conclusions.
I might add, we may have been able to have civilly discussed this had you not tried your normal condescending BS. But that is your style, so be it.
Businesses come and go. Sometimes, it is best they go, which allows better ran businesses to take their place. Hostess has assets that may fit better under new management.
As they point out in the Daily Reckoning, manufacturing is slowly returning to the US. Not rapidly, but returning.
More on Hostess http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/ar...
The Revival of American Manufacturing by Chris Mayer http://dailyreckoning.com/the-revival-of...
A white house initiated petition is afloat to urge Obama to nationalize the company and allow the union employees to be co-owners. It's enough to make Dolly Madison proud!
Just kidding!
Knock, knock, anyone awake here?
Wheels, I must have dozed off while reading the Drudge report. :) http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/...
Old John,
I look for Obama to check it out with our resident expert before he would dare do anything.
"Hostess Shrugged" by Joel Bowman http://dailyreckoning.com/hostess-shrugg...
And who will be blamed if Congress passes legislation based on the 25,000 signatures?
-- Posted by Me'Lange on Sat, Nov 17, 2012, at 5:11 AM
Congress and the fools that voted for them, whether dead or alive.
Me'Lange, Should the former employees qualify for unemployment checks since they voluntarily left their jobs?
Dang greedy entrepreneurs making money. Common and crew should stop this!
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p...
Rick
Dont ask......
As a former member of the BCTGM, I can say this is not the first time that something like this happened. Do you remember when Bunny Bread had a bakery in Cape Girardeau, Sikeston, and Anna? BCTGM overstepped then and made it more profitable for the company to build new bakeries in Anna and move production. There is nothing new under the sun............but BCTGM does not seem to learn from it's mistakes.
Rick,
I realized this late in my employment with Bunny Bread when I realized the union rep had more in common with company management than he had with the workers he 'represented'. He had almost nothing in common with the workers.
Big government, big business, and big labor; they have a lot in common.
-- Posted by Robert* on Sat, Nov 17, 2012, at 2:32 PM
I had a couple of friends in Sikeston that was let go with 17 years in. They were mad at the union.
Here's the link to employee FAQ's. I would hate to be reading this as a fired employee. Thanksgiving next week, Christmas in 6 weeks, mortgage, car payments, due and NO insurance after this month is just part of their problems. Hindsight is a ******.
http://hostessbrands.info/employee-faq/
BTW it depends on the state if they will get unemployment since they walked out. Myself having to pay into unemployment I would hate to know someone could quit and still delete my account that I have to replenish.
I am not a union hater by all means but they are becoming their own worst enemy.
As far as saying a bunch of Yahoos bought it would be a stretch. People said the same thing about Harley Davidson when AMF bought them. There where a lot of problems during their ownership but otherwise Harley would be a memory. Now it is thriving.
The problem is a health concuss public creating a smaller demand for a unhealthy product. That company had a larger cost of doing bushiness than they did 10 years ago when sales were much higher.
They wanted 17% in employee contributions to insurance that had doubled and no matching funds for the 401 K. Plus the union was going to get 25% ownership.
Now these people are without insurance, a check, and looking for work in a poor jobs market.
I feel for the ones that wanted to keep working because they knew this would happen. That is the reason they need a secret ballot.
The Mexican Company Bimbo may be buying Twinkies (Hostess) http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/...
As a former employer,Employment security insurance is paid by the employer, unless it has since been changed. An employer has the right to challenge an employee who wishes to draw unemployment.
My friend had a body shop with four employees. When things got slow he would buy an auctioned car with damage to keep them busy but pay them only the agreed upon guarantee. When the shop was busy they were paid 60% of labor sold but the guarantee was still better than what unemployment would pay.
Three out of four quit rather than accept the arrangement. The guy that stayed continued on and within five years the owner retired and gave him the business, came in part time to help him with the books and sold him the equipment cheap.
Three years later the new owner had five employees doing very well. The three guys that quit were back wanting to work for him and told no way!
Not sure the moral of the story if there is one, just thinking the union employees kind bit the hand that had been feeding them.
How can unions keep on giving back, had they accepted latest offer they would be working minimum wage, now the owners can sell the rights to twinkie name and never work again.
I had a couple of friends in Sikeston that was let go with 17 years in. They were mad at the union.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sat, Nov 17, 2012, at 4:32 PM
There was plenty of blame to go around, but in my opinion the majority of it belonged to the union. The officers of the union failed to educate the workers they represented in the realities of business. (Perhaps because they were also ignorant of them) Together they killed the goose that laid the golden egg.
When the plant in Cape Girardeau was moved to Indiana, the community there agreed to build a modern plant for them and lease it to them on favorable terms. The state government had a program which agreed to pay half the wages of the newly hired employees for a period of time, I think five years because the company had 'created' new jobs. The union created an atmosphere of tension which caused the company to look elsewhere and consider other options.
At first, I blamed the company but as my understanding of management principles grew my opinions changed. I still have a low opinion of government incentives which encourage companies to move from community to community or state to state. In my opinion these create more problems than they solve. Bunny Bread is one of those companies which now has an opportunity to take advantage of the demise of a powerful competitor.
~A point no one has touched on, WHO do you think pays for these bankruptcies? NOT impressed with companies who choose to write off their supplier debts. Thus this companies poor management snowballs down to all other companies in the supply chain.
-- Posted by Me'Lange on Sun, Nov 18, 2012, at 6:36 AM
I have been burned by two bankruptcies and I learned to be careful of who I gave credit to. That is part of doing business and the way it is.
Much is being made of the the assumption that since bankruptcy was filed twice, Hostess was history.
Does anyone remember a man by the name of Sam Walton?
Did he file only once.... or was it twice? Cannot remember, but I thought it was twice??
Sam filed when a landlord didn't renew the lease on his Ben Franklin store and left him broke. Lets see.... There's about million employees now?
You cam add:
The Walt Disney Company, Disneyland, Walt Disney World
Hilton Hotels
Hershey's chocolates
Macy's department stores
Heinz ketchup
Little Debbie is hiring.
Rick
I was at the store last night and the Little Debbie endcap was twice the size.
-- Posted by .Rick. on Sun, Nov 18, 2012, at 9:54 AM
Rick,
Dexter makes up crap as he goes along. He would make a great poster child for the anti establishment group, or the Occupy Wallstreeters.
I have been burned by two bankruptcies and I learned to be careful of who I gave credit to. That is part of doing business and the way it is.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sun, Nov 18, 2012, at 8:41 AM
It is fun to be a non secured creditor isn't it Regrets?
Last bankruptcy that the kids (my old) business had that I was aware of, they received a check as a non secured creditor for their part of the distribution after the secured creditors received theirs. I believe when my son-in-law showed it to me with one of those, would you look at this, it was for $.74.
But hey that was a plus, I don't ever remember receiving anything myself and you did get one of those notices from time to time.
Had a guy once file bankruptcy on the balance he owed me on an air conditioner. After the dust settled he wanted warranty service. I said I don't think so. He said the bankruptcy made me a new person. I said yeah I know and that makes you the second owner and don't wait for us to come out as there is no warranty to the 2nd owner and hung up on him.
Rick,
Somewhere remember Dexter or someone saying he was supposed to be about 80 or so. He acts more like he is about 13.
Him and Suelynn both, but I know she is older cause she has been posting since she was only 8 or 9 if she is 13 now.
Where was it written that Hostess was going to leave creditors unpaid?
Apparently they have borrowed assets and are requestiong the court to allow them to use that money to pay employees what is rightfully owed at termination date but no guarantees of the court allowing that.
So there is one or more cash lender depending on bankruptcy court to get paid. I read no mention of suppliers that are owed but assume they too, if any, will depend on the court to recoupe.
Sell off of assets may still cover all debt.
Oh well, I don't look for the price of bread to go down and those Me'lange's Wheels buns will have to be of a different brand for a while.
OOPS, Make that "Honey Buns"! :)
Isn't it interesting the Conservative posters are supporting business bankruptcy? Suggesting it okay to leave your suppliers holding YOUR debts?
-- Posted by Me'Lange on Sun, Nov 18, 2012, at 12:13 PM
Isn't it interesting that you are reading something into conservative posters written words that is not there? Presumably to help prove you assertions of facts that are not yet facts.
One thing is for certain. We have bankruptcy laws, just or unjust. And they are at times taken advantage of by disreutable businesses and individuals.
Another thing for certain, it would be a rare business that issued credit, that did not experience the letter in the mail of someone declaring bankruptcy.
In one of those "Perfect Worlds" all people would make perfect decisions both the issuer of credit and the company or business being issuing credit. Then we would have no need of bankruptcy laws.
In the case of the issuer of credit, the trick is to keep bad debts to a minimum and never let a debtor get to the point where his bankruptcy causes your own.
You can be a conservative, and you can recognize the fact there are bankruptcy laws without declaring support of them. Who specifically did you have in mind that was supporting bankruptcy?
Mel
Do you like plagiarizing my posts?
-- Posted by Me'Lange on Sun, Nov 18, 2012, at 1:56 PM
While several folks may have appeared to been blaming the union.... I don't see that as endorsement for the bankruptcy laws in this country.
Fortunately I have never had to even think in terms of personal or business bankruptcy.
But God knows I have been screwed over by them often enough that I have no love for bankruptcy laws in this country.
Wheels
Had one guy to tell me if he would pay me even after the bankruptcy when he got some money. That was about 15 years ago and this summer I saw him driving a new truck with a new boat in tow at the lake. I never saw a dime of it.
Loaned a sis in law a couple of hundred one time and it was the best money I ever lost. She never asked again.
Regrets,
Had a genuis business operator from Perryville owed me a little over $5000.00 when he bankrupted. Since I happened to be in Cape the day he appeared in court, I thought I would just drop in and watch the proceedings. When he ran into me in the hallway it was obvious I was the last person he expected to see. He gave me one of those quick I will pay you when this is all over deals. The person I really felt sorry for was his wife. She was a really nice person and they really grilled her. Her hands were shaking and she was crying before they finished with her.
At least 15 years maybe 20 have passed. If I was in the same area this guy was in, he must have seen me first.... I have not received the money by the way, and I am smart enough to not pursue it as I would be the one in court then. He is a new person now.
I learned to sell bad debts as soon as I saw a problem. A bird in the hand you might say.
Just wondering how many jobs this will cost.
http://washingtonexaminer.com/reward-oba...
Isn't it interesting the Conservative posters are supporting business bankruptcy? Suggesting it okay to leave your suppliers holding YOUR debts? -- Posted by Me'Lange on Sun, Nov 18, 2012, at 12:13 PM
Bankruptcy isn't always a collapse and closure. It is sometimes to allow a company to reorganize and get better terms for it's debt. And there are laws to protect 1st liens, 2nd liens, etc. Then when a company comes out of bankruptcy it still has debt obligations sometimes on the whole dollar and sometimes at pennies on the dollar. And, yes, sometimes unions must agree to reduced terms for the firm to come out of bankruptcy.
What other suggestion do you have? Obama's only plan appears to be based on bailing out large union companies that vote his way - with taxpayer money. When a company goes belly-up it's not pretty for anyone.
Look at it this way, nothing is lost. Twinkies will still be produced but by another company. Approximately the same number of employees will be needed to produce the product; they will just be employed elsewhere. It seems to me that everyone wins.
Twinkies will still be produced but by another company. -- Posted by Robert* on Mon, Nov 19, 2012, at 10:07 AM
Can I change that "company" to "country"? :-)
I wonder if twinkies can stay fresh on their way in from China? :-)
I wouldn't remember what a Twinkie tasted like it has been so long since I had one. I would bet it has been 40 years at least. Never did have that big a fascination for junk food.
The bankruptcy of Hostess Bakeries and selling off of it's assets provides opportunity for many people; including and especially the union.
If management was the problem.................
If greedy investment bankers were the problem............
The BCTGM has the same opportunity other groups have, plus a unique advantage. With the UAW, the AFL-CIO, and affiliated organizations, the union has both the opportunity and the ability to purchase the bakeries and the rights to the Hostess name and it's products. The skilled work force is already there. The union has the opportunity to prove to the world (and all the doubters and naysayers on this thread) that the company was mismanaged and sold off by investment bankers for an unfair windfall profit.
Now is the time for the union to act and allow the workers of this world to enjoy all the profits made from the fruits of their labor. The skilled labor force is already there, the distribution system is established, and the demand for their product is there. All that is required of them is to purchase the bakeries and produce the product. Workers of the world unite!
Robert, There are a lot of employee owned companies. They make up their own union I would think. Are there any successful union owned companies that are doing well?
Like politics , both sides , the company and the union have dug their heels in and refuse to find a common solution for the company to continue to grow and job security .
-- Posted by .Rick. on Mon, Nov 19, 2012, at 1:07 PM
The company was at the end of their rope. They said they couldn't survive the walkout and meant it. Just like this election people were told what to believe and believe me they will pay for it the same way.
Workers of the world unite! -- Posted by Robert* on Mon, Nov 19, 2012, at 11:46 AM
They're waiting on their $50 BILLION bailout check from Obama but he's in Burma or Myanmar or somewhere on the other side of the earth. They'll have to wait until he returns.
Well it's all over. I feel for the workers that have lost their jobs by listening to someone else.
The striking employees voted 87% to strike. They chose this path.
Honestly I feel that the prospect of 99 weeks of unemployment, food stamps, medicaid, etc. are just too tempting to pass up. If there were none of these programs I bet the vote would have been different. When it truly gets down to your job or nothing I believe most will choose their job - or get another job if possible.
Regret, I guess you'll just have to deep fry donuts on Thanksgiving instead.
The striking employees voted 87% to strike. They chose this path.
-- Posted by left turn on Wed, Nov 21, 2012, at 5:33 PM
How do you know I wasn't talking about Obama voters?
Just kidding.
The problem is NO secret ballot. Wanna get harassed? Vote not to strike.
OJ
The future deep fried turkey is marinating.
If the company is sold in tact, equipment, real estate and recipies, I wouldn't be surprised to hear they rehire with higher wages and less benefits. [non union]
In the meantime more than a couple of places sell a pretty similar product.
I still miss the oulet place [Wonder Bread] on Kingshighway and now I'll have less excuse to go to Jackson and stop in at Dents Makes Cents.
Oh well, if nothing ever changed more people would be drinking Fresca and Falstaff.
Little Debbie is making a killing off of this.
Am I not mistaken in thinking Lil' Debbie is delivered by independent distributers?
Seems the independent distributer would have more incentive to deliver and sell product than a union company truck driver.
Of course I remember the three sometimes four competing bread trucks that delivered to the corner grocer. It was a constant battle of profit based on low cost vs percieved quality and sales that kept prices in check plus there was always a person behind the product that influenced which brand got the wider eye level shelf.
Harts, Colonial, Wonder and Bunny Bread.
My friend that worked in Sikeston said if you ever got a whiff of the Cinnamon when they opened the barrel you would feel different about it.
Subject: How twinkies bakery was divided up
You may have heard that Hostess Bakery plants shut down due to a workers' strike. But you may not have heard how It was split up. The State Department hired all the Twinkies, the Secret Service hired all the HoHos, the generals are sleeping with the Cupcakes and the voters sent all the Ding Dongs to Congress.
Me'Lange, I got up yesterday and spent my breakfast time trying to find something in the closet that still fit me fit to wear to a funeral. 4pm before we had time to think about food and by then I was getting comfortable with the empty feeling. After a snack and some stuff to do, well it was bed time before I knew it and I woke up no more hungry than if I had been to an all you can eat place the day before. My brother I think still practices fasting, a couple of days a month with nothing but water/coffee. Says it makes him appreciate what he has been blessed with more.
You may have heard that Hostess Bakery plants shut down due to a workers' strike. But you may not have heard how It was split up. The State Department hired all the Twinkies, the Secret Service hired all the HoHos, the generals are sleeping with the Cupcakes and the voters sent all the Ding Dongs to Congress.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Nov 29, 2012, at 1:08 PM
You forgot the Zingers. Where did they go?
"You forgot the Zingers. Where did they go?"
We try to post there here on these threads, though they sometimes come up short...