Staten Island residents plead for help from Mayor Bloomberg after storm

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Posted by Shapley Hunter on Fri, Nov 2, 2012, at 9:13 AM:

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/stat...

Mayor Bloomberg is beginning to look like the Ray Nagin of the Northeast.

Breitbart is reporting that he is diverting generators and other supplies from the outer burroughs to be used to support the New York City Marathon, which he has decided must go on as planned.

Replies

  • This is a mess out there this could be Obama Katrina.

    -- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Fri, Nov 2, 2012, at 9:18 AM
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    The cream always rises to the top .

    -- Posted by .Rick. on Fri, Nov 2, 2012, at 9:42 AM

    Not in a septic system.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Nov 2, 2012, at 9:43 AM
  • When all is said and done, obama & bloomberg will be hailed as a heros for their actions concerning Sandy.

    -- Posted by FreedomFadingFast on Fri, Nov 2, 2012, at 9:45 AM
  • You really can't compare the two.

    Katrina was handled extremely poorly. The residents of New York benefited from the lessens learned there.

    -- Posted by Rational.Thought on Fri, Nov 2, 2012, at 12:07 PM
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    "Never thought of this , I guess because I never dealt with one ."

    Rick,

    Well let me fill you in on the basics. In any Septic System, be it Sanitary, Political, Religious, Work Related, doesn't matter.... the biggest t***s float to the top.

    At least that is the way it was explained to me years ago.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Nov 2, 2012, at 1:01 PM
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    :-)

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Nov 2, 2012, at 1:11 PM
  • Never go fishing in Lake Lotahockey!!!!!!!!

    -- Posted by Mowrangler on Fri, Nov 2, 2012, at 1:56 PM
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    Katrina was handled extremely poorly. The residents of New York benefited from the lessens learned there.

    -- Posted by Rational.Thought on Fri, Nov 2, 2012, at 12:07 PM

    Katrina was worse. Tunnels, subways, and other underground areas are all that's left that is flooded.

    In NOLA most of the city was still under 6 feet of water a week later. The majority of people that lived there wouldn't even clean their own front yard or try to help others. It was all about "where's my check" and "when are they gonna put up my FEMA trailer".

    Bush was chastised about where's FEMA and the national guard but Obama has gotten a pass by the media because people are saying the same thing. I still remember the liberals on here running their mouth about NOLA not even knowing what was really happening down there.

    I was down there within three weeks of Katrina and much of the area was still without power and water for a month. The leeches down there are pitifully lazy.

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Fri, Nov 2, 2012, at 7:07 PM
  • Not surprised by your biased comments Regret, but at least Chris Christie thinks President Obama is doing a good job. I'm sure you know better than the governor of New Jersey how President Obama is taking care of things.

    -- Posted by Sandyhook on Fri, Nov 2, 2012, at 7:46 PM
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    Username

    The same goes for you. I just see the people speaking on the news and not the unbiased opinion of Democrat Underground. BTW Christie said that three day ago. Whats he going to do? Say the truth that Obama is an empty suit getting some photo opts.

    Better be glad Obama didn't give them a couple of trillion this week. But after Tuesday expect him to start throwing money at it.

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Fri, Nov 2, 2012, at 8:23 PM
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    Better be glad Obama didn't give them a couple of trillion this week. But after Tuesday expect him to start throwing money at it.

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Fri, Nov 2, 2012, at 8:23 PM

    Hopefully he will be a "Lame Duck" President after Tuesday.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Nov 2, 2012, at 8:39 PM
  • You're calling Chris Christie part of the "Democratic Underground"? People speaking on the news? What did you expect them to say a few day after the worst storm to ever hit that area? Of course they expected the power back on and the area to be cleaned up the next day. Get real.

    -- Posted by Sandyhook on Fri, Nov 2, 2012, at 8:57 PM
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    Usermane

    Why would Christie be part of Democrat underground? That is a place for wimpy and lazy liberals to hang out and whine because they might lose their free ride. Maybe we can compare that sound bite to "You're doing a good job Brownie". If you remember Brownie was fired.

    Wheels

    Hope he is done. I do have the escape plan to shut down, get my funds out of the tax man's reach, and retire if Obama get reelected. I like the idea of snow birding.

    If Romney wins I will reinvest some of my retirement money and keep playing the game.

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Fri, Nov 2, 2012, at 9:22 PM
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    If Obama, is re-elected my retirement money is going where he is going to have a hard time taxing it.

    If this country is dumb enough to re-elect the empty suit, then I do not feel obligated to help pay their bills.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Nov 2, 2012, at 9:27 PM
  • The marathon has been canceled.

    -- Posted by riregrist on Fri, Nov 2, 2012, at 9:40 PM
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    Wheels

    Same here.

    That is what a couple of my friends are doing also.

    They want to get out while the getting is good if Obama wins. If you can retire and you are close to retirement, why take the chance?

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Fri, Nov 2, 2012, at 10:00 PM
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    Regrets,

    Been retired since the year 2000, but still keeping active and earning which puts me paying taxes, which is more than 47% of the population can say.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Nov 2, 2012, at 10:12 PM
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    Guys were caught with a truck full of Romney signs stolen out of yards.

    Those charged with receiving stolen property included John Russell, 39, of Toledo, and Chris Monaghan 41, of Rossford, who are both listed on the Sheet Metal Workers Local 33 Web site as business agents for the union's Toledo district.

    The men were in a pickup truck registered to Local 33 in Parma, Ohio, police said.

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Fri, Nov 2, 2012, at 10:20 PM
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    Sheet Metal Workers Local 33 Web site as business agents for the union's Toledo district. The men were in a pickup truck registered to Local 33 in Parma, Ohio, police said. -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Fri, Nov 2, 2012, at 10:20 PM

    Howdy - say it ain't so! Union guys stealing Romney signs??? Business agents no less! I guess they're happy they got their Obamacare waivers for their cadillac health care plans.

    -- Posted by Dug on Fri, Nov 2, 2012, at 11:40 PM
  • riregrist, Just read that, also on Drudge, Alabama utility crews return after wasting time waiting to be in proper order and compliance with union crews.

    Something I've not heard asked: Isn't there a population of so call homeless people living in subway and muninciple underground infrastruction in some of the big cities affected? Would they have been in the know about the devastation in time to come up?

    -- Posted by Old John on Fri, Nov 2, 2012, at 11:57 PM
  • Rick, A repubican candidate's large sign was posted across the road from my house one morning. That evening when I got home only the posts were left.

    If someone turns around in my driveway when I'm gone or anytime I have company or come home at an odd hour, my neighbors know about it and mention it.

    Kind of strange to me no one knows what happened to that sign.:)

    -- Posted by Old John on Sat, Nov 3, 2012, at 12:13 AM
  • BC, I assume you have a supply of possum jerky and fire wood at the farm in case of a bollinger county disaster?

    -- Posted by Old John on Sat, Nov 3, 2012, at 12:51 AM
  • Swamps prediction Romney 51% Obama 46% I hope my prediction is right, if it is we can start rebuilding our country again.

    -- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Sat, Nov 3, 2012, at 7:22 AM
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    -- Posted by Old John on Sat, Nov 3, 2012, at 12:51 AM

    Now I know what I want for lunch......

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sat, Nov 3, 2012, at 9:16 AM
  • Rick I bet if one of these homeless mentally ill people chased a criminal through a school zone Ol Me Lange would call them worse than trash.

    -- Posted by Mowrangler on Sun, Nov 4, 2012, at 12:38 PM
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    Rick,

    Closest I came to being homeless was living alone in a sleeping room in someone's home that you only saw when the $7 to $10 weekly rent was due. While you may have a dry & warm (really warm in July) room to sleep in, you are possibly more alone than the homeless.

    It is a way of life you must do something about yourself if you want to be like the balance of the world... and maybe some do not want to. Maybe they prefer the lifestyle, having the knowledge that they are one of the do gooders conscience items. ☺ ☺ ☺ ☺

    Moving day was a hell of a lot less complicated than when I moved out of my 4000 sq. ft. house a few years ago.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Nov 4, 2012, at 1:23 PM
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    Moving day was a hell of a lot less complicated than when I moved out of my 4000 sq. ft. house a few years ago.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Nov 4, 2012, at 1:23 PM

    That's what I want to do. Too much stuff! If you don't have room you cant collect it.

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sun, Nov 4, 2012, at 3:47 PM
  • Once again, the federal government and Obama are doing a much better job than what was handled in Katrina.

    Katrina was the first big test, and they failed. Poor coordination, poor leadership, poor communication. It was a failure at all levels.

    The Hurricane in the Northeast is a much better situation. Not becasue Obama is better, but becasue we learned our lessons with Katrina and made improvements. The coordination between FEMA and city and state officials is what led to better handling of the Hurricane.

    If you want to blaim Katrina's problems on Bush, that is fine. He deserved some criticism. But the governor and mayor of NO share the blame as well. But Bloombuerg, Cuomo and Christy have also done a better job.

    -- Posted by Rational.Thought on Mon, Nov 5, 2012, at 2:12 PM
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    It's worth keeping in mind that Hurricane Katrina was a Category 3 hurricane when it came ashore. Sandy was already downgraded below hurricane status when she hit the shore. That's not to belittle the suffering of those who were impacted, but the nature of the impact is much less.

    Nonetheless, those who live there are faulting the officials at all levels for management failures. They had five days to prepare, but no one apparently thought to move a descent supply of generators to a safe location near the cities. The same can be said of food and other supplies.

    Without electricity, the gas stations can't pump gasoline, and without gasoline the people who have generators can't run them.

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Mon, Nov 5, 2012, at 3:25 PM
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    And there continue to be problems. Mayor Bloomberg seems intent on maintaining the appearance that all is well, no matter the reality.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/milit...

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/04/us/tropica...

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/03...

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/02/us/sandy-g...

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Mon, Nov 5, 2012, at 3:36 PM
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    And, of course, the inevitable looting:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/quee...

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Mon, Nov 5, 2012, at 3:37 PM
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    "No one can make millions of people happy..."

    No. But Rudy Guiliani did a pretty decent job of it. The secret is to focus on making the people that matter happy. If you try to appease the unappeasable, you're bound to lose.

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Mon, Nov 5, 2012, at 3:53 PM
  • Total conjecture and opinion .

    Obama attempted to really care about the destruction and the people .

    It was only a temporary chance to try and show he was a strong leader .

    The Entitlement Army will believe anything to keep their monthly Government checks coming...

    -- Posted by .Rick. on Mon, Nov 5, 2012, at 3:47 PM

    But everything else posted against Obama is not conjecture and opinion? Interesting how some people pick and choose what isn't opinion?

    But its actually more truth than opinion.

    With Katrina, our country so far behind the ball in preparedness. Depelated national guard, first big test of FEMA reorganization (became part of homeland security). Since that reorganization, we were focuced on preventing terroism and terrosit act response that natural disaster were put on the back burner. Katrina exposed that.

    Bottom line, there were a lot of lessons learned at Katrina and other problems since then. The president now has a lot better prepared department than Bush did.

    Also, Christie was smart enough to tell everybody leading up to the hurricane to get the hell out. The gov. of Louisiana and NO mayor gave the order much too late.

    FEMA got a lot of deserved criticism after Katrina, but they have show much improvement since then.

    -- Posted by Rational.Thought on Mon, Nov 5, 2012, at 4:24 PM
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    FEMA got a lot of undeserved criticism after Katrina, as well. People seem to have a wrong idea about what FEMA is all about. They usually show up after the fact, and give out low-interest loans. They are not rescue units, firefighters, police units, etc. They do coordinate the response of many of these units, but they do not own them. They also coordinate the response of private donors of supplies, such as Wal-Mart.

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Mon, Nov 5, 2012, at 4:44 PM
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    11 Busted Looting Key Food In Coney Island After Sandy

    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/broo...

    "_'What am I supposed to do? Let my grandmother starve?' says suspect Justin Diaz. The accused made off with toilet papers, diapers and candy, police said."

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Mon, Nov 5, 2012, at 4:49 PM
  • FEMA got a lot of undeserved criticism after Katrina, as well. People seem to have a wrong idea about what FEMA is all about. They usually show up after the fact, and give out low-interest loans. They are not rescue units, firefighters, police units, etc. They do coordinate the response of many of these units, but they do not own them. They also coordinate the response of private donors of supplies, such as Wal-Mart.

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Mon, Nov 5, 2012, at 4:44 PM

    FEMA does wear a lot of different hats.

    But I would not say the criticism was unjustified.

    -- Posted by Rational.Thought on Mon, Nov 5, 2012, at 5:01 PM
  • You are as guilty , if not more than me .

    Are you acusing me of a "pick and chooser" ? Who are you to judge me ??? Doen't this make you a "pick and chooser" in of itself ?

    You "pick and choose" any of my posts you feel you need to . Obviously , you do not read all of my posts . I back no one , Obama nor Romney . Do not try to force your choice of Obama on me , it will not work..not even a little .

    Look in the mirror and decide which part of you is perfect .

    When I see "facts" posted by anyone -- including you , it is conjecter and opinion .

    Don't start none and there will not be none .

    -- Posted by .Rick. on Mon, Nov 5, 2012, at 5:01 PM

    Struck a nerve did I? All I did was ask a reasonable question.

    Force the choice of Obama on you? What are you talking about? I am not even voting for Obama.

    Where is all of this coming from?

    -- Posted by Rational.Thought on Mon, Nov 5, 2012, at 5:04 PM
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    "Once again, the federal government and Obama are doing a much better job than what was handled in Katrina.

    Katrina was the first big test, and they failed. Poor coordination, poor leadership, poor communication. It was a failure at all levels."

    Katrina was much worse. I was there. Not only was it a logistical nightmare there were the Democrat raised leech population that wouldn't even clean there own yard. At least this time they are dealing with people that will try to help themselves. Did you see looting like you did in NOLA? Remember NOLA was flooded for more than two weeks under 4 to 10 feet of water.

    Did I see any helicopters dropping food and water as they did in NOLA? NO. Obama didn't do any better job and he should have been prepared for it because of the time they knew it was going to hit and past history.

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Mon, Nov 5, 2012, at 7:38 PM
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    We backward hillbillies are stupid enough to supply our own needs in case of an emergency.

    -- Posted by BCStoned on Mon, Nov 5, 2012, at 4:24 PM

    It would never occur to me to be out here in the sticks and not be prepared to tough it out. Would it be fun? No. But it can be done. I could last for months without any outside sympathies.

    -- Posted by dchannes on Mon, Nov 5, 2012, at 7:46 PM
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    There were a number of hurricanes before and after Katrina that were handled quite well. Katrina was a massive hurricane which struck with full force on a population center that had grown to believe they were immune to hurricanes. Much of New Orleans was built below sea level.

    Neither the geography of New York and New Jersey nor the intensity of hurricane Sandy were comparable to the situation seen during Katrina.

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Mon, Nov 5, 2012, at 7:57 PM
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    The main problem with Katrina was the water from the 30 foot storm surge took out the 17th street levee (the one Louis Farrakhan said Bush had blown up).

    The pumps were powered and ready to run but the operators abandoned them. NOLA is about 13 feet below sea level.

    Imagine driving the south half of Memphis from the Mississippi bridge to 285 and it was flooded with 25% of the people still there. That's what it was like.

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Mon, Nov 5, 2012, at 8:31 PM
  • -- Posted by .Rick. on Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 8:29 AM

    I am not picking on you. I reply to all the posters. And I apologize as I never ment to offend you.

    -- Posted by Rational.Thought on Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 8:45 AM
  • Did I see any helicopters dropping food and water as they did in NOLA? NO. Obama didn't do any better job and he should have been prepared for it because of the time they knew it was going to hit and past history.

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Mon, Nov 5, 2012, at 7:38 PM

    i am sorry. But doesn't this contradict itself?

    -- Posted by Rational.Thought on Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 8:46 AM
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    With a few exceptions, the roads into and out of New York and New Jersey remained intact. Flooding made some of them impassable, but they were structurally destroyed like the I-10 bridges in New Orleans.

    There was less need to rely on helicopters and other non-vehicular traffic to deliver food and supplies in New York and New Jersey. The principle issue there is the lack of power to provide heat and power the gas pumps necessary for fuel, as well as the cold (no power means no heat for many residents).

    In New Orleans, the August heat was a factor. In New York, it is the November cold. Yet another reason the two are not very comparable.

    Keep in mind that there were several hurricanes that made landfall in the U.S. during president Bush's term. Only Katrina is cited as a failure of governmental response. The governors of Florida and Texas seemed to weather others with competence, and relied largely on state resources with the usual, limited federal assistance.

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 9:44 AM
  • -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 9:44 AM

    Katrina was a failed response because the government on so many levels.

    Bush took the blunt of the criticism, some of it justified, some if it not.

    Yes, other huricanes hit during his term, but Katrina was the first to test the Department of Homeland security, and the newly reorganized FEMA. Both were overrun with beuracracy and incompantance.

    What people failed to realize is how quickly FEMA recovered. Yes, Katrina was bad. But there was another hurricane soon after. The mass mobilization and preparedness and coordination between local, state and federal levels was impressive, but overlooked in the aftermath of Katrina.

    What is also different is the coordination of local governments. Yes, Bush set up fema and it didn't work well initially. But the Govonor of Louisiana and the mayor of NO were by far more incompotant.

    If I recall, the mayor never even released an evacuation alert.

    Moral of the story...We learned a huge lesson at Katrina. The residents of New York are benefiting from those lessens and better management at FEMA.

    -- Posted by Rational.Thought on Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 11:57 AM
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    "Yes, Bush set up fema and it didn't work well initially."

    There was FEMA long before Mr. Bush. All he did was move it into the Department of Homeland Security.

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 12:48 PM
  • "Yes, Bush set up fema and it didn't work well initially."

    There was FEMA long before Mr. Bush. All he did was move it into the Department of Homeland Security.

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 12:48 PM

    Which I mentioned.

    It was totally restructured as a part of homeland security.

    -- Posted by Rational.Thought on Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 2:14 PM
  • The huge lesson was not learned . Some people refused to evacuate as warned causing excessive time for the Coast Guard , LEOs , and firemen to evactuate these people .

    As far as better Management by FEMA , there are 2 acres of temp living trailers made for Katrina victims just rusting away .

    Why didn't FEMA start moving them to the Northeast before the storm ?? How does people in New York benefit from this negligence ? Why wasn't extra fuel sent to New York/New Jersy so there would not be long lines waiting to get gas -- some stations ran out ?

    I see a lack of planning by the Management which would mean they did not learn a thing about NOLA , except a way to give money away .

    -- Posted by .Rick. on Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 1:43 PM

    Agree on the idiots who refused to evacuate.

    Like I said, Katrina was screwed up on so many levels.

    They did start preparing before the storm.

    And they have plenty of fuel in New York/New Jersey. The problem is distribution. They have a limited number of gas stations. Its going to be a while before they are all back up and running.

    -- Posted by Rational.Thought on Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 2:23 PM
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    Speaking of telling people to leave and having the order being ignored. A feriend of mine's brother lived in Key West, FL area. Don't remember the storm but he was told to evacuate. He told the guy he thought he would stick it out. The guy did not argue with him. He went to his vehicle and came back with a toe tag and told my friend's brother to fill it out and tie it to his big toe so they would know how to notify the next of kin.

    It was then A..h..... and elbows with my friend's brother vacating the area. I guess it was just explaining it in the right way that made him understand.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 3:41 PM
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    BC,

    Are you saying, as in the case of the "gouging laws" the government thinks it is their duty to protect us even if it kils us?

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 3:56 PM
  • -- Posted by BCStoned on Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 3:52 PM

    That doesn't make any sense.

    Gouging laws is the reason why there are long fuel lines?

    So if tomorrow, all of cape's gas stations closed down except for 2 of them....Long lines would be the result of price gouging and not the fact there are only 2 gas stations?

    -- Posted by Rational.Thought on Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 3:57 PM
  • Gouging laws do not make sense, anytime.

    -- Posted by BCStoned on Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 3:59 PM

    This is what you are basing your opinion on?

    Again, this is a stupid premis. The lack of gas is due to the fact there is a lack of operable gas stations.

    Seriously, cardiac surgeons are the only people who need gas? Me and you getting to our jobs don't matter? What about a fireman? I guess they don't need to get to their jobs either? How is that cardiac surgeon going to perform surgery with out techs and nurses?

    The gas lines are not filled with senior citizens looking for warm fuzzy feelings. They are waiting out of necessity, not for the fun of it.

    Price gouging consumers will not fix the problem. Price gouging protects people so they don't have to spend $300 to fill their tank up to get to work. It helps make sure that where ever you work, your staff can make it to work as well.

    -- Posted by Rational.Thought on Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 4:08 PM
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    BC,

    Your work is cut out for you....

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 4:10 PM
  • BC,

    Your work is cut out for you....

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 4:10 PM

    Sure is.

    Trying to prove a point with out any rational thought to support it.

    -- Posted by Rational.Thought on Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 4:13 PM
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    RT,

    I suspect you are on the younger, or perhaps more protected side of things and, I think perhaps if you had seen a little more of life you would understand perfectly what he is saying.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 4:27 PM
  • Rational.Thought, In a market economy, prices determine the distribution of goods.

    Marx and Engels, like you, thought that central planning works best in the distribution of goods. The collapse of the Soviet Union proved them and you wrong.

    New York, with its anti-gouging laws prevented the market from working its miracles.

    -- Posted by BCStoned on Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 4:27 PM

    Working what miracles?

    The key issue is a break down in the consumer level supply chain.

    Simply allowing price gouging will not fix the issue, nor work miracles. Its going to take time to get all the service stations up and running.

    -- Posted by Rational.Thought on Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 4:50 PM
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    It would depend on how one defines 'gouging'.

    If a person that operates a gas station purchases a generator, has a qualified electrician connect it to his power supply (a requirement in most cities), and provides the fuel and possibly extra personnel to run the generator and the pumps to provide gasoline to those who need it, he has a reasonable right to recoup those costs through the gasoline he sells.

    The generator may have cost several thousand dollars, which he may have had to drive many miles to find, and the electrician probably charged no small fee for his services.

    Let us say he has incurred $5,000 worth of expenses, and he expects to sell maybe 20,000 gallons of gasoline before power is restored and competing stations can begin to supply gasoline, as well. He would need to charge an additional $.25 per gallon in order just to recoup the costs.

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 4:53 PM
  • RT,

    I suspect you are on the younger, or perhaps more protected side of things and, I think perhaps if you had seen a little more of life you would understand perfectly what he is saying.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 4:27 PM

    Sorry Wheels, but I don't buy it.

    It is his premis that there would be plenty of fuel and generators if there was price gouging. There is now way that would help the situation. And the link provided offered nothing of value either.

    -- Posted by Rational.Thought on Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 4:53 PM
  • It would depend on how one defines 'gouging'.

    If a person that operates a gas station purchases a generator, has a qualified electrician connect it to his power supply (a requirement in most cities), and provides the fuel and possibly extra personnel to run the generator and the pumps to provide gasoline to those who need it, he has a reasonable right to recoup those costs through the gasoline he sells.

    The generator may have cost several thousand dollars, which he may have had to drive many miles to find, and the electrician probably charged no small fee for his services.

    Let us say he has incurred $5,000 worth of expenses, and he expects to sell maybe 20,000 gallons of gasoline before power is restored and competing stations can begin to supply gasoline, as well. He would need to charge an additional $.25 per gallon in order just to recoup the costs.

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 4:53 PM

    And I have no problem with that.

    But again, that really doesn't solve the current problem they are facing.

    But here is the kicker. That Electrition knows how much that gas station charges....So he charges the gas station $1000 an hour to get it going?

    -- Posted by Rational.Thought on Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 5:04 PM
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    Good luck getting an electrician but the big deal is getting passed the red tape to instal temporary power.

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 5:30 PM
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    Good luck getting an electrician but the big deal is getting passed the red tape to instal temporary power.

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 5:30 PM

    Regrets,

    If it was my business or family that needed temporary power to survive and I had the generator available I would look for forgiveness after the crisis was over rather than a permit to do what was necessary to survive during the crisis, and the government could get screwed.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 9:51 PM
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    Rick,

    That is always the excuse when a liberal does not know what to do.

    Business will not take a loss if the cost of supplying a service rises dramatically due to a crisis, when government forbids them from recouping those losses in increased prices. Hell the supplier of gasoline could cut the price 50% as long as he has nothing to sell. I guess that would be a success story in a liberal's mind.

    The loosers are those folks who need the services.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 10:24 PM
  • *

    "But here is the kicker. That Electrition knows how much that gas station charges....So he charges the gas station $1000 an hour to get it going?"

    If the gas station gets 'gouged', that is a separate issue, they still have the right to recoup their costs.

    If the electrician exposes himself to higher risk by performing the work, say, at night while immersed in salt water, then he is entitled to compensation commensurate with the risk.

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Wed, Nov 7, 2012, at 8:50 AM
  • *

    BC,

    The Northeast situation is just one more case where government stands in the way of a solution.

    Get government out of the way and the prices charged amongst neighbors would be fair based on the costs of providing those services at any given time.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Wed, Nov 7, 2012, at 9:27 AM
  • *

    "Amid Sandy's devastation, Long Island union sent written demand to Florida utilities: Pay dues or stay home"

    http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/03/amid-s...

    "In a two-page Oct. 29 contract, the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers (IBEW) local 1049 demanded union dues, pay hikes and benefit contributions from Florida electric utilities before its workers would be permitted to help reconnect power to Long Island communities. The demand came as Hurricane Sandy was bearing down on the Northeastern United States, stranding tens of millions without electricity.

    "The "Letter of Assent," which The Daily Caller obtained from the Florida Municipal Electric Association, demanded 11 separate financial commitments from municipal power companies and electrical cooperatives in the Sunshine State. The agreement, for any utility that decided to sign it, would have been in force from Oct. 29 to Nov. 29.

    "Barry Moline, the association's executive director, told TheDC that by Nov. 1 the union, based in the central Long Island town of Hauppauge, had relented and stopped insisting that nonunion crews pay dues and other union fees.

    "The union director" himself placed a phone call to withdraw the letter, Moline said during a telephone interview Saturday. But that came only after Moline had notified a national trade group, the American Public Power Association, which turned outrage into action."

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Nov 8, 2012, at 10:16 AM
  • *

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Nov 8, 2012, at 10:16 AM

    I'm surprised Obama didn't issue an executive order demanding they pay the union dues. After all he is supporting the unions to anyone in the way's detriment.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Nov 8, 2012, at 2:56 PM
  • Again I say, if folks didn't send the bulk of taxes to the federal government the states could be funded enough to not need FEMA to be there passing out water and money.

    Also FEMA was not intended to compete with the Red Cross and charitable organizations in first response but rather with after the storm rebuilding help.

    No worry though, Obama has in his plan to cut the boots on the ground and add more office personel to FEMA and military operations overall as well.

    -- Posted by Old John on Thu, Nov 8, 2012, at 5:27 PM
  • -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Nov 8, 2012, at 10:16 AM

    And you support this?

    -- Posted by Rational.Thought on Fri, Nov 9, 2012, at 10:28 AM
  • I'm surprised Obama didn't issue an executive order demanding they pay the union dues. After all he is supporting the unions to anyone in the way's detriment.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Nov 8, 2012, at 2:56 PM

    So local business are allowed to overcharge, but not the unions?

    Why the double standard?

    -- Posted by Rational.Thought on Fri, Nov 9, 2012, at 10:29 AM
  • *

    RT,

    Your childish questions are becoming tiresome. Quit trying to put words into other's mouths.

    My comment had nothing to do with overcharging whatsoever. It had to do with the stupidity of the situation in the Northeast. They don't want anyone helping unless they do it the New York way. If told my help was not wanted under this dire situation I would have turned my trucks around while I still had enough fuel in the tanks to get the hell out of there and go some place where my assistance was appreciated.

    I am not so dense as to not be able to figure out when my assistance is not wanted. When you want compulsary unionism before you are allowed to help someone in need it has reached the point of STUPID.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Nov 9, 2012, at 10:42 AM
  • *

    "And you support this?"

    No. I support the union's decision to rescind the demand.

    As I understand it, however, the Long Island Power Authority has managed to block repair crews from performing any work without LIPA personnel at the site. Since there are more crews from all over the country than there are LIPA personnel to man them, necessary work was reportedly prevented from happening because of this requirement.

    While it makes some sense for the power company to want to maintain authority over repairs made to its grid, emergency repairs by trained crews should not be blocked by needless regulations.

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Fri, Nov 9, 2012, at 10:44 AM
  • RT,

    Your childish questions are becoming tiresome. Quit trying to put words into other's mouths.

    My comment had nothing to do with overcharging whatsoever. It had to do with the stupidity of the situation in the Northeast. They don't want anyone helping unless they do it the New York way. If told my help was not wanted under this dire situation I would have turned my trucks around while I still had enough fuel in the tanks to get the hell out of there and go some place where my assistance was appreciated.

    I am not so dense as to not be able to figure out when my assistance is not wanted. When you want compulsary unionism before you are allowed to help someone in need it has reached the point of STUPID.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Nov 9, 2012, at 10:42 AM

    Its not putting words in your mouth when I point out the contraindication of your statement.

    I don't like the unions either. And I think what they are doing is wrong.

    But I find it highly ironic that they are simply employing a tactic that you thought the gas stations could provide.

    -- Posted by Rational.Thought on Fri, Nov 9, 2012, at 10:48 AM
  • "And you support this?"

    No. I support the union's decision to rescind the demand.

    As I understand it, however, the Long Island Power Authority has managed to block repair crews from performing any work without LIPA personnel at the site. Since there are more crews from all over the country than there are LIPA personnel to man them, necessary work was reportedly prevented from happening because of this requirement.

    While it makes some sense for the power company to want to maintain authority over repairs made to its grid, emergency repairs by trained crews should not be blocked by needless regulations.

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Fri, Nov 9, 2012, at 10:44 AM

    Its not about regulation, its about money. They want to be paid.

    In the context of this argument, I see this in the same light as price gouging.

    -- Posted by Rational.Thought on Fri, Nov 9, 2012, at 10:49 AM
  • *

    Yes, the union's demand for dues is just about the money, and is a form of price-gouging.

    Valid concerns about safety and quality of work could justify requirements on the out-of-area workers requiring oversight by locals. However, given the emergency nature of the situation and LIPA's inability to provide the personnel to fulfil their own mandate, such a mandate is a burden, not a help. As such, it should be tossed out.

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Fri, Nov 9, 2012, at 11:01 AM
  • *

    Its not putting words in your mouth when I point out the contraindication of your statement.

    -- Posted by Rational.Thought on Fri, Nov 9, 2012, at 10:48 AM

    There was no "contradiction" in my post.

    Demanding that an outside contractor or utility be put into the position of paying a prevailing union wage of the area is not "price gouging" it is "price fixing". Had absolutely nothing to do with the laws of supply and demand. Had everything in the world to do with union control even when they could not meet the demand and desperately needed help.

    Do you think it would be fair to send the New York utility crews to some area where the wages were lower and demand they take a lesser wage? Of course not it would be ludicrous and equates to the same thing.

    When you gain a little more knowledge, you may learn the natural laws of supply and demand and where they apply.

    Now I have to scoot. Will get back to your liberal in disguise way of thinking later.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Nov 9, 2012, at 11:10 AM
  • So if a fellow from Washington state wanted to send a box car of apples to New York as his charitable contribution to the relief effort, would he have prove he paid the New York price for the apples before shipping?

    Or would he have to pay dues to the apple sellers association in NY?

    -- Posted by Old John on Fri, Nov 9, 2012, at 11:30 AM
  • There was no "contradiction" in my post.

    Demanding that an outside contractor or utility be put into the position of paying a prevailing union wage of the area is not "price gouging" it is "price fixing". Had absolutely nothing to do with the laws of supply and demand. Had everything in the world to do with union control even when they could not meet the demand and desperately needed help.

    Do you think it would be fair to send the New York utility crews to some area where the wages were lower and demand they take a lesser wage? Of course not it would be ludicrous and equates to the same thing.

    When you gain a little more knowledge, you may learn the natural laws of supply and demand and where they apply.

    Now I have to scoot. Will get back to your liberal in disguise way of thinking later.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Nov 9, 2012, at 11:10 AM

    First, I don't think unions are fair for anyone to begin with. This case worst than others.

    Second, you post about supply and demand contradicts your earlier statement.

    Just as I don't think its fair for the union, I don't think its fair to price gouge during a national disaster.

    And yes, it is about supply and demand. The union is controlling the supply of elections, ultimately price fixing as you pointed out.

    I just happen to think both scenarios are wrong.

    Let the gas station up his price to cover costs, but not gouge and get rid of the unions.

    -- Posted by Rational.Thought on Fri, Nov 9, 2012, at 11:47 AM
  • Unions....

    I refuse to pay someone to speak for me , I can speak for myself very well .

    Union Reps take the Company HR to dinner on the Union due's dime .

    Unions use fear instead of protecting the worker against the Corporation as they were meant to be . Unions are now just as big of a business as any Corporation .

    -- Posted by .Rick. on Fri, Nov 9, 2012, at 2:45 PM

    What is intersting is that a by product of federal regulation has eliminated the need for unions.

    "Unions make work places safe"....No, OSHA does a better job at that.

    "Unions make work free of harrasment"...No. Unions have been powerless there too. Infact, sometimes creating harrasment. The courts have controled that.

    "Unions provide benefits"...Not really. In some industries, yes...To the point where they killed off those industries for forced jobs oversees.

    Fact is, the general union worker does not get what he paid in dues anymore....This coming from a former union member.

    -- Posted by Rational.Thought on Fri, Nov 9, 2012, at 2:49 PM
  • The worst thing a person can hear in times of disaster as Katrina and Sandy is "I'm from the FEMA and I'm here to help you". That would be their last words before the muzzle flash.

    -- Posted by dab1969 on Fri, Nov 9, 2012, at 5:20 PM
  • The worst thing a person can hear in times of disaster as Katrina and Sandy is "I'm from the FEMA and I'm here to help you". That would be their last words before the muzzle flash.

    -- Posted by dab1969 on Fri, Nov 9, 2012, at 5:20 PM

    Good point.

    Becasue that fend for yourself really worked in New Orleans.

    -- Posted by Rational.Thought on Fri, Nov 9, 2012, at 5:25 PM
  • BC, Alice in Waterland took my attention out of speed read mode. I said a few years ago that I would not be suprised if papers were needed cross state lines some day.

    The article makes a pertinent point.

    -- Posted by Old John on Sat, Nov 10, 2012, at 1:15 AM

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