Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Wed, Sep 19, 2012, at 8:51 PM:
I guess the truth hurts. Romney just said it the way it is. Its a shame Obama doesn't have the manhood to do the same. Instead he cried foul and blamed the wealthy.
I know some of you may have seen this but Romney does make a point. I hope people realise that when they get finished killing the golden goose (the wealthy) they alone will be responsible to pay the even larger future entitlements.
"In 2010 alone, government at all levels oversaw a transfer of over $2.2 trillion in money, goods and services. The burden of these entitlements came to slightly more than $7,200 for every person in America. Scaled against a notional family of four, the average entitlements burden for that year alone approached $29,000"
The republican senators blocked a bill assisting returning Iraq Afgan soldiers on a job bill. Senators who worked on the by partisan bill voted against it.
Again another vote, just another double talk, Romney could have phrased it differently, look at Akin, speaking and not thinking.
-- Posted by Dexterite1 on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 5:03 AM
Again another vote, just another double talk, Romney could have phrased it differently, look at Akin, speaking and not thinking.
-- Posted by Dexterite1 on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 5:03 AM
In other words, "Words speak louder than actions."
-- Posted by FreedomFadingFast on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 6:05 AM
Romney was preaching to those who would drink his kool-aide without using their own brain. You fell for his rhedoric and tactics. Shame on you for not thinking for yourself
!-- Posted by Me'Lange on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 4:31
And this differs from obama supporters how?
-- Posted by FreedomFadingFast on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 6:09 AM
Stupid remarks brings surprising results. Shows their ignorance and out of touch with average citizens.
-- Posted by Dexterite1 on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 6:21 AM
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 10:44 AM
If romney was so right, why is he now apologizing for saying so, and now even using his wife? What a joke he is. Every week now since the RNC, he has been shoving his foot deeper and deeper down his own throat with "knucklehead i don't really want to be president" statements. He just sucks man.
President Obama doesn't really have to do anything to even get on his case. Romney is practically giving the election to President Obama all by himself. The debates are gonna be real fun to watch. So if Romney thinks that repeating and basing his whole debate on jobs and the economy, he will really lose out. Romney has changed that from being a big issue to a moog point. People are gonna want to know who are all these 47% or more that you are talking about. Don't get scared now...everybody wants to know who exactly are you talking about.
Romney has continued to insult those so call 47% of the people. His numbers are getting worse in several national polls. If you think the 47% and people who heard all this BS he has saying about them, and if he thinks they will forget about it come november....wrong!
It's gonna be Obama butt kickin time! Bring on the debates. Your republican choice for president is going down in flames and thats the truth ruth!
-- Posted by kcknown on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 10:56 AM
bc stoned. so you think romney is only talking about people who are on welfare? That would be highly discriminatory. now how many of them will still vote for him?
-- Posted by kcknown on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 11:28 AM
BC
They will never buy privatizing government, Obama and his crew have everyone convinced, to make a profit is evil. I think our country is about at the point where all we have to do is pile brush on it and watch it burn.
One thing about it, what little I have I do not intend sharing willingly with the moochers and Caddy can put that in his pipe and smoke it!
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 11:29 AM
The interesting thing about the 47% number is this: According the Tax Policy Center, which is often cited for analysis of the figure, the number refers to the number of 'households' that do not pay income tax, not the number of 'citizens' or the number of 'voters'. Mr. Romney was clearly talking about voters in the video, and was referring to the composition of the 47% that will vote for Mr. Obama 'no matter what'.
If the 47% refers to households, then we can expect the number of 'citizens' or 'voters' to be much higher. That is to say, only a percentage of citizens file income taxes at all, and the figures say half of those do not pay any income tax.
The figures that cite the 'top 1%' or the 'bottom 50%' as paying a percentage of total taxes refer to percentile of tax filers, not of total citizens or total voters.
Many households file jointly, though they consist of two or more citizens of voting age. Non-working spouses, dependent teens of voting age who do not work or earn below the threshold for filing, etc., are not included in the percentage of filers. It is reasonable to assume that the number of voters who pay no income taxes, at least individually, is much higher than the number of filers or the number of households so included.
The IRS reports roughly 140 million tax returns, while the BLS places the civilian labour force at 154 million. Also, many returns are filed by those not in the labour force (retirees, etc.), which indicates that there is a sizable percentage of the labour force that does not file income taxes. The labour force is measured from age 16, while voting age begins at 18, which would account for some disparity. The BLS puts the Civilian Noninstitutional Population at 239 million, which is the estimated number of civilians 16 and over not institutionalized (available for workforce employment. This would imply that 64% of the population is in the workforce, but only 58% file taxes.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 11:34 AM
bc stoned. so you think romney is only talking about people who are on welfare? That would be highly discriminatory. now how many of them will still vote for him?
-- Posted by kcknown on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 11:28 AM
Uh, OK. Didn't you just kinda knot your panties into a circle. Sometimes speaking the truth does not automatically become discrimination ( I know, depends on who's talking about who). Actually some of us believe that many of them will vote for 'him" (Romney) Obama has failed miserably. And is looking riduculous weaseling out of it. The mainstream media is even beginning to waffle a little bit, haunted by the ghost of Edward R. Murrow no doubt.
-- Posted by blogbudsman on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 11:48 AM
Seems I read a comment on another thread that sounded like you are still trying to blame Obama for your business slump. What happened to pesonal responsibility?
-- Posted by Me'Lange on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 4:31 AM
I see you are out of touch with contractors and their suppliers. This is a nation wide problem.
Personal responsibility? I have always taken care of myself and family and always will. You guys are expecting me to also take care of others until I am broke. I have come to the conclusion that if BO is reelected I will take my ball and quit playing the game. There are many like me that are doing the same thing.
BTW I don't drink kool-aid. I see a guy that has a record of fixing problems and a guy that never fixed anything, laid by in the senate, and has purposely concealed his past. Also now we have found out he was never a law professor and only a lecturer that had some pretty bad ratings. Obama is a empty suit.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 12:04 PM
Anybody want to guess Regret's retirement?
a) Nov 7th 2012
b) Jan 20th 2013
I'm saying neither one.
-- Posted by howdydoody on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 12:16 PM
The University Of Chicago Law School, where he taught, considers/considered him a professor. Maybe you know something else?
-- Posted by Reasoning on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 12:19 PM
Teaching Law is not Practicing Law. Nice.
-- Posted by Reasoning on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 12:26 PM
Wheels, The government will eventually default on their obligations. This will be a point when privatization will become possible.
-- Posted by BCStoned on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 12:17 PM
BC,
We will default, I am reasonably sure of that. Will we have learned anything.
A side note..... wonder if someone we know in common had something to do with this?
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 2:24 PM
Rick,
With those missals that can be turned to the target, I would be worried about being a pilot, loosing my grip on what was happening and shoot myself or my buddy in the arse.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 2:49 PM
What... me being the pilot and destroying myself??
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 2:54 PM
Rick,
Under mo circumstances do I want to be equal to Obama.
That would be worse than you sticking your head in the ceiling fan, I guarantee it. ☺ ☺ ☺ ☺
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 3:09 PM
-- Posted by howdydoody on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 12:16 PM
I will follow my accountant's instructions. I don't want to give Obama any more money than I have to.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 3:43 PM
I'm curious what has happened to Mr. Romney's detractors today. We've learned in the past twenty-four hours that the tape was doctored and that the attack in Libya was apparently pre-meditated and carried out by terrorists, and the Obama supporters all seem to have disappeared, except Spaniard, whose avoided those topics.
I'm just curious, that's all.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 3:54 PM
Shap, I'm not sure they distracted many with their detracting. I did notice one of our favorite spin masters was repeated by DNC talking points two days after his post on these forums.
Do we have a talking point originator among us?
If so I give him credit for originality. :)
-- Posted by Old John on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 4:24 PM
"Do we have a talking point originator among us?"
Maybe. Or maybe he just got the early release... ;)
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 4:34 PM
"Romney was right about the 47%."
Sure thing...
As Governor Romney said the 47%
"who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it."
Among the lazy victims that do not take responsibiliy for themselves and don't pay taxes are:
Lower ranking members of the US military,
All US military serving in combat zones.
Presumable the republicans have duly informed those troops in Afghanistan that they are in the 47%. No wonder the Governor did not mention the GI's in Afghanistan during the convention acceptance speech. Could it be that Governor Romney is ashamed of them because they don't pay taxes?
There has been nothing shown that implies anything in his Boca Raton speech to donors was "doctored." The portions released were in complete sentences and paragraphs. If something was supposedly left out you would think Governor Romney would know it. But then again, he has not been very careful about what he says.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 4:55 PM
"...Libya was apparently pre-meditated and carried out by terrorists,..."
Why is that an issue. Within hours of the attack the FBI had people in Libya to assist in tracking down whoever was responsible.
As for the embassy having been warned, the impression I received is the the Ambassador was confident and courageous enough to go to Bengazi anyhow.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 4:59 PM
"There has been nothing shown that implies anything in his Boca Raton speech to donors was "doctored.""
Didn't Mother Goose admit it had a couple of minutes missing from the speech? Guess Common missed that part.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 5:00 PM
"...had a couple of minutes missing..."
There was probably a hour missing from what was publicized, what was in this precious 2 minutes?
The good governor can't dig his way out of a deep hole by claiming a few words were missing, and by the way he has not claimed that. What were the missing words?
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 5:05 PM
"What were the missing words?"
What a dumb question. How would anyone know what words were missing... if they were missing?
Common your dim light is flickering now.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 5:21 PM
Man, Regret you bring out some of the far left when you hit on the 47% topic. I figure this time next year the 47% will increase to 60% and by the time we reach 2016 it will be 90% and were down the tubes. We have to start growing more money trees I don't see any way around that, don't you agree Wheels.
-- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 5:33 PM
Swanp
When you get a line on those trees I would appreciate a contact.
The University Of Chicago Law School, where he taught, considers/considered him a professor. Maybe you know something else?
-- Posted by Reasoning on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 12:19 PM
Obama wasn't a professor he was a lecturer. A position that the Chicago law school said signifies adjunct status.
He was elevated to a senior lecturer the year he was first elected to the Illinois Senate in Springfield. BTW he was a bad one according to the students.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 5:54 PM
Ir sure is funny to me that the same few people on here who complain every day about the democrats and Obama, and the worthless welfare class who are too lazy to work, seem to have enough free time EVERY DAY to post continuously on this forum. Day after day, it's the same half dozen people ranting about the same things... Aren't you people supposed to be busy creating jobs or something?
Ironically, when the last president was doing the EXACT SAME THINGS that you criticize Obama and the democrats for, you were silent or supportive of him.
I feel bad for people who happen to check out this forum on a rare occasion and think that all people in SEMO are like the few on here.
The only thing the speakout forum is good for is a laugh.
-- Posted by the_eye on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 6:16 PM
Swamp,
I tried raising money trees but they all died with this summer's dry weather.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 6:17 PM
Aren't you people supposed to be busy creating jobs or something?
-- Posted by the_eye on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 6:16 PM
Thanks to Obama's dithering and the anti-business climate he had created we have time on our hands. I'm not gambling my money on his policies.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 6:36 PM
Eye,
I have seen you on here a good number of times as well. And never have I heard you say anything positive. It is alwayd whining about some other poster. If you don't like anything about this venue for people to speak their piece.... why don't you ignore the whole scenario and do whatever it is that makes you happy.... if there is such a thing?
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 7:26 PM
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 7:29 PM
The only thing the speakout forum is good for is a laugh. -- Posted by the_eye on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 6:16 PM
Did someone lift your rock?
-- Posted by not_sorry on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 7:36 PM
"the_eye"...as in cyclops? Wasn't it killed in some old black and white movie years ago? eeek!
-- Posted by dchannes on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 8:18 PM
I had a money tree once. By the time I paid to have it guarded, paid to have the money picked, paid an accountant to keep up with it and paid the government it's part, I found myself in the 47%. :)
-- Posted by Old John on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 8:35 PM
Wheels,
IMHO, the eye is simply reporting what he is observing: irony. Like all of the folks who post on here who hate Obamacare, yet are going to vote for Romney for example.
Irony is so, uh, ironic.
-- Posted by Rick Vandeven on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 8:47 PM
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 7:29 PM
Regrets,
I like it. You know, I was thinking, and my Grandfather had his picture taken with Obama about a hundred or so years ago. He is standing behind an empty chair. And so did my Great Grandfather and his family. There was an empty chair in the front row of the picture. that had to be back in the 1800's.
I think we are going to find Obama is the most photographed President ever. Lots of people had their pictures taken with him in the empty chair.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 8:53 PM
"The good governor can't dig his way out of a deep hole by claiming a few words were missing, and by the way he has not claimed that. What were the missing words?"
Ask the man who filmed it. He first said he sent the complete tape. When Mother Jones admitted part of it was missing, he claimed the camera 'inadvertenly' quit, and he restarted missing a couple of minutes.
He works for NBC, by the way. I wonder why he didn't peddle it to his bosses...
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 8:56 PM
"There has been nothing shown that implies anything in his Boca Raton speech to donors was "doctored."
...except the admission from the man that filmed it, and the from the e-tabloid that ran it...
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 8:57 PM
Rick V
We are going to have either Obama or Romney for a President come January. I would vote for the Marble Hill Dog Catcher or whomever has the best chance of winning before I voted for Barack Obama after his performance of the past 3 1/2 years.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 8:58 PM
"As for the embassy having been warned, the impression I received is the the Ambassador was confident and courageous enough to go to Bengazi anyhow."
And how did that work out for him?
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 8:59 PM
"Ironically, when the last president was doing the EXACT SAME THINGS that you criticize Obama and the democrats for, you were silent or supportive of him."
Ironically, when the last president was doing the EXACT SAME THING, the democrats were criticizing him for it. Why do you not find that peculiar?
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 9:01 PM
"Why is that an issue."
Why? Because, for one solid week Mr. Obama has told us this was about a film trailer to a movie that no one has seen. Now, Mr. Carney tells us it is 'self evident' that this was a terrorist attack.
Yet, at the same time, the President and Ms. Clinton are on the air in Pakistan in public service ads apologizing for the film clip.
I have tried to find a quote from Ms. Clinton criticizing 'The Book of Mormon' after she left the theatre, but can't find it.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 9:07 PM
Wheels,
We all gotta do what we think is best. I prefer to flip the status quo the bird. There are folks who still believe that there is a difference between the duopoly parties. BWAHAAAAAAAA!
Ultimately, we deserve it.
-- Posted by Rick Vandeven on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 9:25 PM
Rick V
I would not disagree with you on the parties as a whole. Although there are some good people on the Conservative end of things still out there. Take Swamp for instance, a loyal Democrat, but a Conservative Southern Democrat. I can identify with someone like that. I think there are a lot of others, unfortunately a minority still. When it comes to Romney and Obama, I think Romney has something going for him when it comes to business sense.... Obama has none, zip, zero! Is Romney a true Conservative.... No!
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 9:44 PM
Rick V.
PS: Yes we deserve it!
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 9:46 PM
-- Posted by Rick Vandeven on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 9:25 PM
Just curious Rick, do you believe in "states rights" trumping federal rights that would allow states more control as originally intended?
Or no government at all like an "anarchist"?
-- Posted by not_sorry on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 9:49 PM
"...camera 'inadvertenly' quit, and he restarted missing a couple of minutes."
Maybe that's a good thing that we don't know what else the Governor said.
----------------------------
"...is 'self evident' that this was a terrorist attack."
The reaction to the video on u-tube was obvious. The terrorist atttack was announced after evidence was collected.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 10:53 PM
Dug,
States don't have rights, only people do. I also don't see any difference between 50 little bullies, or one big bully. Governments do what governments have always done throughout history regardless of their size. I have always held that a society free of rulers is the end goal of libertarianism, but is unachievable.
Most people like the conflict that the State creates in their lives. I don't believe that people should be forced to abandon a political system if they don't want to. On the other hand, people should not be forced to support a political system that they object to.
I think the US is simply too large in territory and population to reasonably expect a central government to effectively govern. That is usually when the real trouble starts.
-- Posted by Rick Vandeven on Fri, Sep 21, 2012, at 5:24 AM
"The reaction to the video on u-tube was obvious. The terrorist atttack was announced after evidence was collected."
It ain't about the video.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Fri, Sep 21, 2012, at 6:33 AM
"Maybe that's a good thing that we don't know what else the Governor said"
I'm sure it's a good thing for Mr. Obama, or we'd know what else was said. Notice that it 'inadvertently' stopped at conveniently at the end of a sentence, he he 'quickly' restarted it at the beginning of another topic. Might coincidental, that.
It's a selective edit. That much is clear.
You talk a lot about putting the 'You didn't build that' comment 'in context', even though the entire context has been made available. Why no full context here? Is it because they don't want the positive aspects of Mr. Romney's speeches getting out?
Your bias, and the press's, is showing again.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Fri, Sep 21, 2012, at 6:38 AM
"...restarted it at the beginning of another topic. Might(y) coincidental, that."
Again, the obvious solution would be for Governor Romney to explain what the missing text was. If there were "positive aspects" it would seem the campaign should put them out there.
But on the other hand, there was a chorus of conservative types, agreeing with what he said and urging him to "keep up bashing the 47%," (or something to that effect.) Perhaps they forget that our combat troops in Afghanistan are charter members of his 47%.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Fri, Sep 21, 2012, at 8:11 AM
"Again, the obvious solution would be for Governor Romney to explain what the missing text was. If there were "positive aspects" it would seem the campaign should put them out there."
It was a fundraiser. Send him $50,000, and I'm sure he'll be happy to fill you in on the details. He was talking campaign strategy, something that's not usually put out there, unless NBC-hired operatives of the Democratic campaign illegally film them, edit them, and send them to left-leaning rags for airing. But you already know that.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Fri, Sep 21, 2012, at 8:35 AM
"If there were "positive aspects"
So it appears that there were no "positive aspects..."
"...NBC-hired operatives of the Democratic campaign illegally film them..."
How does anyone know that to be true?
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Fri, Sep 21, 2012, at 9:10 AM
"But on the other hand, there was a chorus of conservative types, agreeing with what he said and urging him to "keep up bashing the 47%,"
How was it bashing? He merely stated they will vote for Obama no matter what.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Fri, Sep 21, 2012, at 9:34 AM
No government employee pays taxes, their salaries are taken from the rightful property owners. It is those rightful owners that are paying their taxes.
-- Posted by BCStoned on Fri, Sep 21, 2012, at 9:32 AM
That would be true. Never thought of it that way.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Fri, Sep 21, 2012, at 9:43 AM
I still cant get my arms around how $23K is poverty. I can live fine on that much and still have a cell phone.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Fri, Sep 21, 2012, at 10:10 AM
I think the US is simply too large in territory and population to reasonably expect a central government to effectively govern. That is usually when the real trouble starts. -- Posted by Rick Vandeven on Fri, Sep 21, 2012, at 5:24 AM
Thanks for the response. I'm not trying to bait, just trying to understand the libertarian view. I agree that more and more people are accepting libertarian ideas on less governing and I believe that many conservatives that would support Republicans are far more libertarian than their representatives.
I'm curious about the libertarian notion of democracy in general. Obviously no democratic action that violates the constitution should be legal - of course there are 1000's of examples where they do now and for many decades.
Another probing question. If the constitution allows taxation *with* representation, if a state with a democratically elected governor and congress pass a *state* health care law that affects just those in the state - is it your view that it's just plain stupid to do so and infringes on the populations rights or it's unconstitutional? Maybe another way to say it is - if libertarians were in charge in Massachusetts and 90% of the population wanted mandated health care - what would a libertarian do? Should they represent the people or what?
Again, just trying to understand.
-- Posted by not_sorry on Fri, Sep 21, 2012, at 10:13 AM
St. Charles County saw a slight dip in its poverty rate, which now stands at 5.4 percent, while also seeing a bump in median household income, to $66,374. St. Louis County, which fell below 1 million residents in 2010, also saw its poverty rate climb above 10 percent two years ago. It now stands at 12 percent.
-- Posted by Rɨck on Fri, Sep 21, 2012, at 10:03 AM
Rick,
Yes, and would you like to know how St. Charles County did it?
It was by refusing to allow low income housing developement within what was once 'small hick towns' now grown up into more 'elite communities' and pushing the poor into the adjoining counties.
These new 'elites' wanted a higher tax base and what was once acceptable developement was no longer wanted.
Might want to check the numbers from Warren and Lincoln counties to see what happened with their numbers.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Sep 21, 2012, at 10:45 AM
Wheels, I alway thought the mean income of St Charles County went up in the summer and down in the winter at the expense/gain of Gulf Shores. :)
-- Posted by Old John on Fri, Sep 21, 2012, at 11:20 AM
Old John,
I haven't seen that many people from St. Charles County in Gulf Shores and it sure as hell ain't me affecting the mean income.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Sep 21, 2012, at 11:24 AM
Old John,
As an afterthought.... I invested in Lincoln County, where they are driving the poor people. I figured God had to love poor people, because he made so many of them.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Sep 21, 2012, at 11:26 AM
"...NBC-hired operatives of the Democratic campaign illegally film them..."
How does anyone know that to be true?"
YOu're right, Mr. Corn, who is peddling the video, works for both Mother Jones and MSNBC/NBC, but he apparently didn't film it, he received it from the person who did.
The speculation is that the bartender at the fundraiser filmed the video, based on the camera location and imagery in the video.
I suspect he'll have a hard time getting jobs at any more Republican fundraisers.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Fri, Sep 21, 2012, at 11:33 AM
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Fri, Sep 21, 2012, at 11:49 AM
We Regret to Inform you,
Check your source. He was a lecturer, but he was considered a professor and titled as such.
-- Posted by Reasoning on Fri, Sep 21, 2012, at 11:55 AM
Weasoning
Nope. Still a lecturer and a bad one at that. His lectures.... Racism.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Fri, Sep 21, 2012, at 12:35 PM
Dug,
Libertarianism is based on the belief that everyone has the right to live their lives in peace so long as they aren't hurting anybody else, and that we extend that right to everybody.
A libertarian in the Mass legislature would not have voted for Romneycare regardless of how many people were clamoring for it because it would violate that basic libertarian value.
The best definition of democracy that I have ever heard is from Ralph Raico: "the right of a government legitimized by formal majoritarian processes to dispose at will of the lives, liberty, and propery of its subjects".
-- Posted by Rick Vandeven on Fri, Sep 21, 2012, at 2:26 PM
"the right of a government legitimized by formal majoritarian processes to dispose at will of the lives, liberty, and propery of its subjects".
If you were to go back to the Constitution, you'd find a complete Bill of Rights, specifically written to protect the people from the government.
Was Mr. Raico not aware of this?
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Fri, Sep 21, 2012, at 3:51 PM
If you were to go back to the Constitution, you'd find a complete Bill of Rights, specifically written to protect the people from the government.
Was Mr. Raico not aware of this?
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Fri, Sep 21, 2012, at 3:51 PM
Yes he was. It's the politicians that are not aware of it.
-- Posted by FreedomFadingFast on Fri, Sep 21, 2012, at 4:20 PM
If you were to go back to the Constitution, you'd find a complete Bill of Rights, specifically written to protect the people from the government. -- Posted by commonsensematters on Fri, Sep 21, 2012, at 3:51 PM
And I suppose that a government take-over of health care is in that bill of rights too? Forced purchase of health insurance in the bill of rights? Or would that fall under the "infringing" of those rights?
-- Posted by not_sorry on Fri, Sep 21, 2012, at 5:01 PM
CSM,
I am sure that Ralph Raico is well aware of the Bill of Rights. He is still alive, and teaches European history at Buffalo State College. His speciality is the liberal tradition in Europe, and has written extensively on the subject. Perhaps you can find his contact information, and ask him your question directly. You can also download most of his books at Mises.org for free.
I am a big fan of the Bill of Rights too. But, I think they could have saved a lot of hemp, ink, and misery by stopping at "Congress shall pass no law".
-- Posted by Rick Vandeven on Fri, Sep 21, 2012, at 8:32 PM
Weasoning
Nope. Still a lecturer and a bad one at that. His lectures.... Racism.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Fri, Sep 21, 2012, at 12:35 PM
Thank you, but check this out.http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media
-- Posted by Reasoning on Sat, Sep 22, 2012, at 8:32 AM
Mitt Romney's taxes are not the issue..... Barack Obama's poor performance as President are the issue.
If we don't require politicians stick to the real issues we are going to get four more years of the current mess in spades.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Sep 23, 2012, at 10:40 AM
If we don't require politicians stick to the real issues we are going to get four more years of the current mess in spades. -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Sep 23, 2012, at 10:40 AM
Exactly. Democrats scream "1%er, rich, evil" when they talk about Romney yet say nothing about Claire McCaskill's millions, private plane and avoiding taxes.
Democrats scream "war on women" when Akin doesn't support taxpayer funded abortion yet stay silent when Obama supports partial-birth abortion - sticking scissors in the neck of a nearly newborn, full-term baby and sucking it's brains out.
They - like Common - are so confused with their spin and deflection with the fact is:
It's the economy stupid.
-- Posted by not_sorry on Sun, Sep 23, 2012, at 12:55 PM
Speaking on the economy, he compared the republican's idea of getting the economy back on track by saying, "The other side's plan to deal with the problem of obesity that plagues so many in the poor and middle class is to put a big tax on poor people's food and give the money to the super rich so they can buy more healthy food."
Has anyone seen the illegal secret tape of this?
-- Posted by Old John on Sun, Sep 23, 2012, at 1:20 PM
"Mitt Romney made $13.7 million last year and paid $1.94 million in federal income taxes"
And people that paid NO taxes thick he didn't pay his fair share.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sun, Sep 23, 2012, at 6:01 PM
Gettin' pretty low there aint ya' Rick. Maybe they could put a pay toilet in her bathroom. The first family is charged for the food they eat according to a white house steward who was on 60 minutes one time. So you are off the hook.
-- Posted by howdydoody on Sun, Sep 23, 2012, at 9:38 PM
Rick and Howdy,
I would imagine the people who are paying Grandma's expenses are the same ones who have been subsidizing the illegal aunt to live in Government Housing.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Sep 23, 2012, at 11:23 PM
Perhaps you should get some thicker skin . -- Posted by Rɨck on Mon, Sep 24, 2012, at 1:26 AM
Good luck with that one! About as thin-skinned as they get... just like Obama?
-- Posted by not_sorry on Mon, Sep 24, 2012, at 8:24 AM
As SS is a gov't run program, shouldn't the gov't be regulating, monitoring, and preventing such things from occuring. I know that if I make a change with regards to my credit card or the credit card co. sees something that looks remiss, they contact me to see what is going on. But then again, the credit card company is one of those privately owned businesses that are less efficient and not as diligent as the gov't.
-- Posted by FreedomFadingFast on Wed, Sep 26, 2012, at 1:04 PM
If the President takes care of Grandma, he is chastised, if he doesn't take care of Grandma, he is chastised.
Ok, I think I understand. There is nothing he can say or do to please the speakout posters in Southeast Missouri.
-- Posted by Reasoning on Wed, Sep 26, 2012, at 1:13 PM
As long as Grandma is not being taken care of by the taxpayer, the pres won't be chastised by me.
-- Posted by FreedomFadingFast on Wed, Sep 26, 2012, at 2:06 PM
Rmoney just responded to what happened to William Combs the disabled veteran. Who cares, he is one of the 47% and was too dumb and got disabled. My sons are smart and will never be stupid enough to become disabled veterans.
-- Posted by howdydoody on Wed, Sep 26, 2012, at 3:28 PM
My sons are smart and will never be stupid enough to become disabled veterans.
-- Posted by howdydoody on Wed, Sep 26, 2012, at 3:28 PM
Its a shame they dont still have the draft. But of course you would teach them to run away instead. Just more of liberals raising chicken s***s like Obama's parents.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Wed, Sep 26, 2012, at 4:05 PM
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Wed, Sep 26, 2012, at 4:05 PM
Give it up Regret. 90% of howdy's posts are "where's mine". He doesn't appreciate anything anyone has done to improve this country - including laying their life down to protect it. Alas, you have a typical Obama supporters thought process. "WHERE'S MINE".
I would bet his sons are in the 47% just like daddy. And wanting more of your money and mine out of our pockets. Just read his posts...
-- Posted by not_sorry on Wed, Sep 26, 2012, at 4:10 PM
Regret and Dug:
I don't know how old you two clowns are and really don't care. I entered the Army in 1966 and was an infantry man. You probably don't know what that is. I have a CIB and a PH, so don't even think about telling me about protecting our country.
Why is the rich man dancing while the poor man pays the band? I could really throw some of my thoughts out here, but I don't want to get censored. You can make all the little inuendos you want, but don't ever question my service to our country.
-- Posted by howdydoody on Wed, Sep 26, 2012, at 4:38 PM
You can make all the little inuendos you want, but don't ever question my service to our country. -- Posted by howdydoody on Wed, Sep 26, 2012, at 4:38 PM
Take some of your own medicine. I'll quit questioning your "service" to our country when you quit calling disabled veterans dumb. Again, as O&T pointed out we can see the Obama supporters by their statements.
"Mitt the twit" - from O&T. Talk about a "zealot". I said everything you did in 2 lines. Get over yourself.
-- Posted by not_sorry on Wed, Sep 26, 2012, at 4:57 PM
howdy,
Have no questions about your service to our country. I respect that service. But just out of my own personal curiousity, in 1966, who or what was it that you (and 10's of thousands of other combat vets) were protecting our country from? I'm sincerely curious to hear the answer from a combat vet. To-date I've only heard an answer to that question from politicians, beauracrats, and talking heads.
-- Posted by FreedomFadingFast on Wed, Sep 26, 2012, at 4:59 PM
Freedom: To tell you the truth, as a 19 year old who thought he knew more than most,it was never realyy explained to me directly. You see, they ran us through in 16 weeks and you were combat ready. Now it takes us 2 plus years to train foreign troops, go figure.
I suppose it was to prevent the spread of communisn as we were later told. Gee, how did that work out? The older I've become, the more I feel like it was a waste of 58,000 lives and taxpayer money. But, at the time I didn't give it a second thought as a wise 19 year old. Hope I kind of answered your question.
-- Posted by howdydoody on Wed, Sep 26, 2012, at 5:43 PM
Why is the rich man dancing while the poor man pays the band?
-- Posted by howdydoody on Wed, Sep 26, 2012, at 4:38 PM
The poor man is paying? I thought he was part of the 47%
So you didn't try? Decided to take the easy route? Just envious?
You need to go back and look at some of the dated comments you have made.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Wed, Sep 26, 2012, at 6:10 PM
Gee, how did that work out? -- Posted by howdydoody on Wed, Sep 26, 2012, at 5:43 PM
Let's see. Communism is waning in Viet Nam. No communism in Russia. Communism trading for capitalism in China and Cuba - and a middle class is developing with their market place economy. What country is still true communist?
-- Posted by not_sorry on Wed, Sep 26, 2012, at 6:31 PM
Dug, Would not that have happened if Americans would have stayed out of the conflict in Vietnam. It's been a few years you know.
-- Posted by Old John on Wed, Sep 26, 2012, at 7:06 PM
Thank you Howdy.
It just makes me wonder sometimes when I hear the phrase "fought for our freedom" or "fought to protect us" with reference to Vietnam (and even N Korea), what freedoms were N Vietnam and N Korea threatening to take from us? When was it that either of those countries threatened our borders or the citizens within? Maybe I'm just letting semantics get in the way of my thinking. Thanks again for your perspective.
-- Posted by FreedomFadingFast on Wed, Sep 26, 2012, at 7:11 PM
"Obviously those that recognize themselves in this comment are going to attack this messenger and further disparage President Obama."
O&T,
You consider yourself a messanger? We have heard this dumb crap from you before and it is no new message.
Ad you might be shocked to find we are not all Republicans... we just cannot stand your buddy, that keeps your freebies coming in.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Wed, Sep 26, 2012, at 7:20 PM
Remember the Nam conflict belongs to the Democrats. They were trying to buy the love of France. They still hate us.
That is the reason Obama need to quit being apologetic about the success of America. They envy of our way of life and like many Americans are jealous of the wealthy.
We live in one of the few countries you can become anything you want or you can do nothing and we will make sure you get by. The bad thing is 47% have learned they can vote themselves largess which will kill the golden goose.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Wed, Sep 26, 2012, at 7:35 PM
There are several posters on speak-out who praise Obama daily , look around .
What are you hell bent on protecting this bum ??
-- Posted by Rɨck on Wed, Sep 26, 2012, at 3:21 PM
I used to see some posters who support our President, but I believe most have been run off, or at least tired of the constant pessimism. I suspect they are reading and watching the regulars trip.
-- Posted by Reasoning on Wed, Sep 26, 2012, at 8:59 PM
Trip?
-- Posted by not_sorry on Wed, Sep 26, 2012, at 10:15 PM
... not in my nature to look the other way (or respect those who make choices that cost society money).
Unless of course it's a politician or beauracrat that shares your ideology.
-- Posted by FreedomFadingFast on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 6:20 AM
A lot of this division has been fueled by the media every single one of them including Fox. Whatever happen to fair reporting with facts to support the story they present to the public each and every day. I will be glad when this election is over, many friends have been lost due to this election cycle and it shouldn't be that way no matter whether your a democrat or a republican. Many of you on here are good hard working people do we have problems yes we do can they be fixed yes they can but nothing will ever be fixed if we all don't work together as Americans regardless of what your politics are. I have a lot of democrat and republican friends which are good people, the division will not work and never has worked. The State of Missouri has the best motto "United We Stand Divided We Fall" how true that is.
-- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 8:05 AM
"...what freedoms were N Vietnam and N Korea threatening to take from us? When was it that either of those countries threatened our borders or the citizens within?"
Perhaps you don't recall or are aware that neither of those countries were acting in isolation. That they were influenced by both the Soviet Union and China. Both of those countries had and still have the real capability to do us very much harm. The likelihood of actual attacks from Russia or China was never very high at all, primarily because of our capability to retaliate.
In Korea the North clearly invaded the South and our participation was was related to international agreements and United Nations intervention. South Vietnam was also assaulted by insurgents sponsored by North Vietnam and China. Again, while the attack was not directly against us, we had security interests in the area and were inclined to counter communist expansionism.
The inference that we were "trying to buy the love of France" is ridiculous. The objective of preventing a domino effect (of countries falling under Communist control) in Southeast Asia was not achieved in South Vietnam, but other nations outside of Indo-China were not lost
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 8:22 AM
I don't know who's doing all of this 'berating' of the President. We question his policies. We have a right to do that here in America. Some question his 'natural born heritage' status, though I've long considered that a settled issue.
We have a few on here that see him as a continuation of the same attack on our freedom that began, by their reckoning, in the 1930s or 1940s or even the 1860s. There is some truth to that, but I don't buy into the conspiratorial nature of their posts. I say it is simply the nature of government to grow.
When Mr. Bush was president we had a steady stream of posts from left-leaning posters faulting him for everything from global warming to hurricanes to an imminent attack on Iran (which never happened) as a part of his 'cowboy mentality). Even now, nearly four years after he left office, we continue to see attacks both on his performance and on his character. And, yet, you appear blind to those.
Mr. Romney, similarly, seems to be subjected to a steady stream of posts denigrating his character. Your own posts are reflective of that, beginning with your mischaracterization of the 47% remark. He said there are 47% that will vote for Mr. Obama 'no matter what'. He then expounds upon what type of person comprises that group. Everytime you claim one of the 'right wing zealots' is a part of Mr. Romney's '47%', you contradict yourself. It is unlikely that a 'right wing zealot' will vote for Mr. Obama at all, let alone vote for him 'no matter what'.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 8:34 AM
If we had wanted to 'buy the love of France', we'd have intervened at Dien Bien Phu, which we did not. After Dien Bien Phu, France was effectively out of the picture in Vietnam (which it was called thereafter, previously having been 'French Indochina').
We went into Vietnam under the premise of SEATO, even though our principle partners in that organization, Britain and France, bowed out. France was effectively defeated, and Britain refused to fight for French colonies while freeing their own. Vietnam was partitioned, and South Vietnam requested our assistance in keeping them free.
My recollection was that we said we 'fought for freedom', not we 'fought for our freedom', though I admit to not being among those doing the fighting, so the mantra may have been different there.
It is my view that the U.S. Congress, not the servicemen who fought and died, lost the war and rendered the sacrifice of those who fought and died to naught. President Nixon had negotiated a settlement, and had trained and equipped the South Vietnamese to defend themselves in our absence. The Congress, however, denied South Vietnam the resources needed to maintain those defenses, and left them to their fate. In their darkest hour, they pleaded to then-President Ford for help, who took their plea to the Congress. The Congress turned a deaf ear to their plea.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 8:44 AM
Anytime libs are lacking real substance in a "reasonal political disscussion", the word/s "hate" or "haters" is soon to show up.
-- Posted by Old John on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 8:54 AM
"I don't know who's doing all of this 'berating' of the President."
"What are you hell bent on protecting this bum ??
-- Posted by Rɨck"
Just because the statement does not make sense, does not disqualify it from it being considered as "berating."
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 9:03 AM
"In their darkest hour, they pleaded to then-President Ford for help, who took their plea to the Congress. The Congress turned a deaf ear to their plea."
I cannot agree with blaming Congress in this instance.
The South Vietnamese government was many years late in their "plea" to President Ford. They did no need more US arms, they needed their own army to use what they alrady had. By that time the major units of the ARVN had collapsed to such a degree from Hue to the Mekong, that any arms shipments from Congress would have been received by the NVA.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 9:12 AM
O&T, Reasoning, MeLange,etc.
You all sound like the same person. You know, sock puppets.
You cannot get anyone to agree with you, so you try to form a majority out of one.
I think you should go back to beating up on the Boy Scouts of American. Throwing your weight around there didn't get you much did it? Unless of course, you want to count the meltdown you had over Lumpy. That was impressive.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 9:12 AM
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 9:12 AM
Common
You think maybe they only needed a hug??
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 9:16 AM
-- Posted by Observations and Thoughts on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 2:23 AM
-- Posted by Me'Lange on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 4:54 AM
More "drive by" posts from liberals who focus on attacking posters without much to add to the discussion or debate. These threads are what they are - a free expression of opinion. I know for liberals that's very very frustrating and we know of at least one on here that works hard to get people banned that don't agree with them. You both mirror the thin-skinned nature of your president.
I sat around in 2008 and watched goggle-eyed democrats and independents fall glowingly for a man who had no real experience in leadership of any kind, clearly said he was for higher gas prices, disparaged rural folk with their guns and religion, accused Bill Clinton of being racist and lied repeatedly in his own biography. You fell for it and the country is paying dearly.
I will not sit around this election as the lies from him and his administration are 10-fold in 2012. Just today we find out Obama is lying DAILY about the Libyan attack. And yet you cry and whine when people call him on it. He will set this country so far back our children will be the first to experience a failed country. And when that happens you will be hiding somewhere ashamed to admit you supported it. I will sleep well at night.
If you can't stand the heat and resort to these personal attacks and the "run for cover" - get out of the kitchen and back on the couch.
-- Posted by not_sorry on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 9:26 AM
"They did no need more US arms, they needed their own army to use what they alrady had. "
I disagree. President Nixon's agreement was that we would replenish 'what they had' as it was consumed. The Congress blocked that by forbidding any shipments of arms. They were reduced to throwing their empty rifles at the advancing North Vietnamese, who had an ample supply of Soviet and Chinese arms.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 9:44 AM
-- Posted by Spaniard on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 9:45 AM
Well let's see... you asked for proof and links on voter fraud and duplication. I gave it and you went into hibernation. Guess you lost on that point. So now you do believe in voter fraud and duplication in Missouri since no retort to the NY TImes article and the other 6 articles.
And the other day you said Obama should be impeached for knowing about the al Qaeda attacks ahead of time.
Looks to me like I'm getting somewhere when one of the biggest drive-by liberals realizes there is voter fraud in Missouri and admits Obama should be impeached.
Now, whine don't you respond?
-- Posted by not_sorry on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 9:51 AM
I agree that, by the Time of President Ford it was too late, but that was their last stand. Prior to that, they had been using 'what they had' with the hope that their supplies would be replenished as it was consumed, per Mr. Nixon's brokered agreement. Methinks they never expected the Congress to turn such a cold shoulder to their ally.
The same was true in Cambodia. The Cambodian government had risked much in permitting our incursions to root out the North Vietnamese who had been finding refuge there during the Johnson years. As a result of our incursions, and then our abandonment, the Cambodian government lost the faith of their people (as did we, a faith we have never regained). King Sihanouk was toppled, and the rest is well known.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 9:59 AM
I am voting for Obama.
-- Posted by Spaniard on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 9:59 AM
Well who would've thunk it? What a revelation Ike! Are yo going to call a news conference to announce it?
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 10:13 AM
Keyboard commando! -- Posted by Spaniard on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 10:01 AM
I post on some other sites and want to get the truth out there. Not the complicated truth, the simple truth. Just the other day a poster responded to one of my posts and said "I had no idea Claire McCaskill failed to pay that much in taxes. I looked it up on the internet and Dug is right. It's true!". One person at a time. I'm also not afraid to speak out in conversation when it comes up.
Whine don't you answer this question? Whine are YOU here? You're getting schooled and you still post.
Your posts are getting a little cowboyish Comrade Spaniard... you need to move to Venezuela or Cuba where your Comrades control the message. That freedom of speech thing sucks in the US doesn't it?
Let me answer my previous question to you - since you probably won't. I know why you are here. You just hate it when people put up facts - even Obama in his own words - and it tears you up. You come on here to fight the good fight for your thin-skinned president - since he doesn't post here. If these threads are nothing but wasted time and don't make a difference to anyone, why are you here? You're guilty of your own crime.
-- Posted by not_sorry on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 10:15 AM
Buddy - you are so far from under my skin. If you want to get into a body parts discussion think "toilet paper" when you think of how you affect me. :-)
Nothing liberals throw at me sticks much. You'd better look at your own skin - the "dug bug" has got you posting that Obama should be impeached. Now, who's under whose skin?
-- Posted by not_sorry on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 10:45 AM
Is anyone else enjoying this as much as I am? I've got so much to do today but this is just too much fun!
-- Posted by not_sorry on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 10:52 AM
"...advancing North Vietnamese, who had an ample supply of Soviet and Chinese arms.
Don't forget the advancing VC that had an ample supply of both Soviet and American arms.
Large quantities of American weapons and munitions were lost to the enemy. The biggest single cause of the failure of the ARVN is that their government was unsuccessful in convincing their soldiers that they were fighting for something that they (the soldiers themselves) valued.
Telling them that they were fighting against worldwide communism meant nothing to them. They could see they were only fighting other Vietnamese. The VC and NVA on the otherhand, were convinced that they were fighting for the freedom of Vietnam. The difference in motivation between opposing side was unparalleled. The South Vietnamese government and by extension their military, was highly corrupt, ineffective in most areas, unsupported by the local populace, and highly vulnerable to overt and covert attacks. They had for all practical purposes lost before the US moved out.
I was not then and am not now against the efforts in Vietnam, but see that our biggest mistakes were not military (although there were some of those) but rather political in nature. It was our inability to convince the South Vietnamese government that earning the support and respect of their people was absolutely essential to overcoming the insurgency. And without popular support, nothing else would work. We should have given the government an ultimatum in about 1970, change your ways to earn support of the people or we're leaving.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 11:03 AM
"...USA did not learn a lesson from France futile attempts..."
France was fighting to retain Vietnam as a colony. We were fighting a communist inspired insurgency, with no colonial ambitions.
Big difference...
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 11:20 AM
"I was not then and am not now against the efforts in Vietnam, but see that our biggest mistakes were not military (although there were some of those) but rather political in nature."
Many people, including myself, have said the same.
"It was our inability to convince the South Vietnamese government that earning the support and respect of their people was absolutely essential to overcoming the insurgency."
President Diem knew this. But we had him toppled (thanks to Mr. Kennedy's meddling). The government we supported couldn't muster the support he had. Diem was killed, we are told, because the coup leaders feared that he was sufficiently strong and had sufficient support to regain power if he was left alive. That's entirely contrary to the justifications given for overthrowing him.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 11:37 AM
"If I'm not mistaken , France was at war with Vietnam for years before America and got no-where either."
The Japanese 'liberated' the French Indochinese when they pulled out at the end of World War II.
We Americans like to think of wars in terms of existing only when we are involved. World War II led into the Korean War, the French Indochinese War, The Chinese Revolution, The Vietnam War, etc. with little or no break in hostilities. While Chaing Kai Shek was allied with us against the Japanese he was fighting the Chinese Communists, who were also fighting against the Japanese. Russia had its eye on Manchuria but wasn't going to go to war against Japan over it, waiting for the moment when Japan pulled out and left a vacuum. There was no interim between one war and the next, except in our American minds.
The French sought to regain their colonies in French Indochina, while the Communists, long a threat in the region, took advantage of the void left by the Japanese pullout to advance their objectives. Once the Nationalist Chinese had been driven to Formosa, the Chinese Communists were happy to support their efforts.
It is probably true that the French Indochinese, having long laboured as a French colonial power, followed by an oppresive Japanese occupation, saw the threat of labouring under a Chinese colonial power or a Russian colonial power as little more of a threat. The South Vietnamese, however, did harbour hopes of both political and economic freedom, which the Communists sought to prevent.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 11:49 AM
So we sent troops to Vietnam to prevent a communist take over as we felt a communist take over of South Vietnam would threaten US security.
End result? U.S. politicians ran the war. We lost, cut and ran. Sent 50,000+ home in body bags. Communist N. Vietnam took over S. Vietnam. 40 yrs later, Communist Vietnam still not (and never was) a threat to US security. Complete waste of human life. As far as I can tell, the only benefactors were the defense contractors who made $billions off the war.
-- Posted by FreedomFadingFast on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 11:58 AM
As far as I can tell, the only benefactors were the defense contractors who made $billions off the war.
-- Posted by FreedomFadingFast on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 11:58 AM
To the best of my knowledge and as I remember it... I believe 'Lady Bird' Johnson owned a substantial investment in a company that was keeping the harbor dredged somewhere in that country. So that we could carry on the war without running aground getting supplies in I think.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 12:05 PM
Do you think if someone continuously post disrespectful comments and blind remarks, anyone believes that poster?
I don't post often, but I can assure you that I am me, and only me. Why would you assume only one person could agree with an opponent?
-- Posted by Reasoning on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 12:10 PM
To the best of my knowledge and as I remember it... I believe 'Lady Bird' Johnson owned a substantial investment in a company that was keeping the harbor dredged somewhere in that country. So that we could carry on the war without running aground getting supplies in I think.
Wheels,
That may be true, I don't know, but I would like to clarify that as cynical as I am of government, I don't believe we were there just to make money for defense contractors. Just works out that way.
So sorry for the men and women (as well as their families) that gave their life and limb for that debacle. Nothing but deep respect for those that went. (Many, if not most, forcably through the draft) Ain't government grand??
-- Posted by FreedomFadingFast on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 12:17 PM
Ain't government grand??
-- Posted by FreedomFadingFast on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 12:17 PM
Only in the spirit that I think you intended it. :-)
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 12:28 PM
"too dumb" "stupid" - howdy
"Stupid" "ignorance" - dexterite
"hate" - MeLange
Do you think if someone continuously post disrespectful comments and blind remarks, anyone believes that poster -- Posted by Reasoning on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 12:10 PM
Agreed.
-- Posted by not_sorry on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 12:39 PM
Reasoning, because some posters in the past have been found out when they pop up with several different names. If you are not one of them, then I apologize for including you, if you are simply trying to provide a cover my apology is null and void.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 12:40 PM
You've got to see this. Howdy - another "where's mine" voter. Call her up and see whassup.
-- Posted by not_sorry on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 2:16 PM
Let me help you.
"If I comprehend your extrapolation to "drive by" that is a term reserved by this group for persons that do not post incessantly"
No. Just post (attack usually) and never respond.
======================================
Jethro Bodines? Again with the name calling. Hilarious!
======================================
The knee jerk right-wing-nut reactions are bonus. -- Posted by Observations and Thoughts on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 2:19 PM
You just got goaded into responding and blathered for 4 paragraphs which I didn't read much of.
Your problem??? Credibility. Obama has now been proven to have lied about Libya over the tragic deaths of Americans in a terrorist attack. Why? To win an election. And you support him. Says all anyone on here needs to know about you.
-- Posted by not_sorry on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 2:25 PM
O & T, as you continue to beat your head against wall, you may take solice in the fact that you are the master of "fictitious narrative" on these threads. You win hands down. Congratulations.
Here's that "knee jerk" for you:
Romney leads Obama by 7.8% in Election Polls as Obama's approval rating sinks to 44.1%.
-- Posted by dchannes on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 2:36 PM
-- Posted by Observations and Thoughts on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 2:19 PM
Awwww! We didn't mean to get you all worked up that way.
I do think you missed a couple of names there in your mud slinging.
Tee he!
Hope I'm not interrupting you in your answers under some of your other names.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 2:52 PM
Dug,
I know, God Willing, that I will be here after the election posting, regardless of the outcome and I think you will as well.
Wonder how many of these Flash in the Pans will be around the day after the election if the empty suit currently in the oval office loses.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 5:31 PM
Well, who gives a crap? At least we still have football and cold beer...so far.
All this mindless banter about which Socialist is better for the job of POTUS is boring me silly anyway. Truth is, I can't stand either one of them.
Eat, drink and be merry Ladies and Gents. Even if most of the food is contaminated. Heck, my bourbon is probably made from Bt corn.
All is meaningless says the teacher.
-- Posted by dchannes on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 5:34 PM
Me'Lange, I hate Socialism. I don't want it for this country, but that's what's coming. We see our rights being cut off by "laws" and "regulations". It makes me mad. Rioting will happen here. Mark that.
You see, what I want is liberty. You know, freedom? I don't care about these petty pokes that people give out here on these threads. You think it's funny? This is serious. It's too bad we can't all see each other face to face and really talk...we might get some understanding on both sides.
I strongly disagree with you that the posters you refer to "can not form a logical debate and/or a mental condition similar to hearing voices that are not really there." That has NOT been my experience. Sometimes it just gets reduced to poking, out of frustration, I think, and that was a rather mean thing to say from behind a computer screen, wouldn't you say? If you accuse people of being stupid for saying you're stupid, isn't that the same thing?
I am not immune to it myself, though. Especially with Observations and Thoughts, commonsensematters and others. However, I'm growing weary of that game. I apologize for being rude. I still believe what I believe, based on my research and experience, but I will try to be more polite. Anybody else?
-- Posted by dchannes on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 7:06 PM
DC,
Given enough time on here you will find it very difficult after awhile to play nice and be polite to people who are rude and demeaning and have all of the tact of a brick coming through a window.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 7:11 PM
Wheels, there's always the "ignore" button. :)
-- Posted by dchannes on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 7:38 PM
Managing properies and invetments? Sound like you are voting for the wrong person.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 7:57 PM
O&T said "... American voters are much more educated today and, as the polls indicate,..."
Now that's funny!
Me'Lange, I guess you are reassuring the old people that no one is trying to take away their social security. Seems some are concerned about that, not sure how that fear got instilled into our respected elders.
Common, Did you take that "denigerate" word from O&T or did he plagaratizal that word from his writen?
-- Posted by Old John on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 8:04 PM
If you want to know what is wrong with Washington, Jefferson City, Middle east, the world... read posts like yours. -- Posted by Me'Lange on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 8:03 PM
Just another far-left opinion here. The country is in a mess, rampant welfare, unemployment, deficits - and your party is in charge. And the country is in trouble due to SE Missourian posts? Says all I need to know about your judgement.
And please don't play the "I haven't decided yet" card. You're about as far-left in your opinions as they come. Honesty is a good character trait - not a bad one. Try it some time.
-- Posted by not_sorry on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 8:09 PM
Regrets,
I watched both of those videos and cannot believe humans have sunk to that level.
In the case of the woman with 15 kids, those children should never be subjected to her screwed up thinking and lifestyle again, ever!
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 8:11 PM
Wheels
This is the society the Democrats have developed.
Mel
Like Spanyard you are voting for Obama.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 8:28 PM
Me'Lange, Good soft shoe around what I implied, I'll ask more directly. Are you one of the helpful to elders that fanned the flames of the republicans intend to take away your social security crap?
-- Posted by Old John on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 8:41 PM
-- Posted by Me'Lange on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 8:33 PM
More thin-skinned reactions from a liberal. I still can't believe how hard you work to get people banned on these forums. Gotta be an Obama supporter - free speech sucks doesn't it?
-- Posted by not_sorry on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 8:49 PM
Old John, I bet she knows how to use the ignore button herself. She certainly used it on me.
-- Posted by dchannes on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 8:53 PM
The "going to take away grandma's SS" is about as old as SS itself. Grandma knows that. They act like she is stupid but grandma has seen a lot more stuff go down and is much wiser than most of us. My mom still laughs about Kerry saying he will keep that lock box locked.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 9:12 PM
Me"Lange, Thanks for your response. That informed opinion is definately an asset and I applaud your concern with old folks. I share and pleasure in such personal self gratification dealing with the elderly.
Now I understand why you don't have time to offer input or take sides in state or federal politics.
-- Posted by Old John on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 9:34 PM
Dug, Being sober is a good quality too, try it some time.- Posted by Me'Lange on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 8:15 PM
More personal attacks. As the expert on this, how do you get people banned?
-- Posted by not_sorry on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 9:40 PM
Dug, Being sober is a good quality too, try it some time.- Posted by Me'Lange on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 8:15 PM
More personal attacks. As the expert on this, how do you get people banned?
-- Posted by Dug on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 9:40 PM
Dug,
Try maligning her character like that and she will threaten you with a lawyer. She threatened me once or twice with it.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Sep 28, 2012, at 1:21 AM
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Sep 28, 2012, at 1:21 AM
Didn't someone on here start a thread about "bullying"??? I can't remember who it was - could someone refresh my memory?
lol
-- Posted by not_sorry on Fri, Sep 28, 2012, at 7:59 AM
I refuse to debate most politics. However, if I did, it would be with individuals who have the ability to form their own opinions. With very few exceptions, the handful of "conservative" regular posters have yet to express that ability.
-- Posted by Me'Lange on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 8:03 PM
So tell us Me'Lange, how is it you form your own opinion. Hopefully you don't just pull it out of thin AIR!! You form an opinion by gathering information, and listening to both sides and then decide which way you believe. I'll venture to say that most posters on here have a very well informed opinion ( especially the conservatives). You may not agree with all of them, but they are informed.
-- Posted by semofan23 on Fri, Sep 28, 2012, at 7:59 AM
"...a very well informed opinion ( especially the conservatives). You may not agree with all of them, but they are informed."
Really? Check out the "Firsts" post.
That's "well informed?"
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Fri, Sep 28, 2012, at 8:05 AM
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Fri, Sep 28, 2012, at 8:05 AM
Maybe you should check out the "firsts" post. I just asked your buddy O&T to answer just one of the supposed "bogus" firsts. I doubt the two of you could put your heads together to refute many of them.
Liberals hate open forums. They can control the media, but these threads get them frothing at the mouth.
-- Posted by not_sorry on Fri, Sep 28, 2012, at 8:13 AM
France to impose punitive tax rate on top income earners: 75% tax rate on those earning over 1 million Euros.
Reportedly, Victoria's Secret model Laetetia Casta, restaurateur Alain Ducasse and singer Johnny Hallyday have already packed their bags and left France to avoid the high taxation.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Fri, Sep 28, 2012, at 8:57 AM
"France to impose punitive tax rate on top income earners: 75% tax rate on those earning over 1 million Euros."
Maybe the low level thinking from the left will be enlightened a little when they see how this works out for France.... but I doubt it. I believe most of them think we can do it and make it work over here. They insist on giving socialism another shot, in spite of it's dismal failures around the globe.
What a bunch of idiots. Yeah, yeah I know it isn't nice and politically correct to say that.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Sep 28, 2012, at 9:10 AM
BC
I think that most U.S. citizens believe that the U.S. gov't has some sort of magical powers that would prevent happening to us what is happening in Greece and Spain.
I'm afraid that the responses to your post will be of the "chicken little, the sky is falling" type. This could never happen to the U.S. of A.!!!!
-- Posted by FreedomFadingFast on Fri, Sep 28, 2012, at 10:14 AM
I refuse to debate most politics. However, if I did, it would be with individuals who have the ability to form their own opinions. With very few exceptions, the handful of "conservative" regular posters have yet to express that ability.
-- Posted by Me'Lange on Thu, Sep 27, 2012, at 8:03 PM
So tell us Me'Lange, how is it you form your own opinion. Hopefully you don't just pull it out of thin AIR!! You form an opinion by gathering information, and listening to both sides and then decide which way you believe. I'll venture to say that most posters on here have a very well informed opinion ( especially the conservatives). You may not agree with all of them, but they are informed.
I would go so far as to say that most of us do form our own opinion, it's just when that opinion isn't what another thinks it should be, well it just isn't yours. Only the left has thinking people apparently. Just automatons on the right.
-- Posted by Knoblickian on Fri, Sep 28, 2012, at 10:15 AM
BC, The daily Bell article offers a lot to think on.
-- Posted by Old John on Fri, Sep 28, 2012, at 11:14 AM
Menu
I guess the truth hurts. Romney just said it the way it is. Its a shame Obama doesn't have the manhood to do the same. Instead he cried foul and blamed the wealthy.
I know some of you may have seen this but Romney does make a point. I hope people realise that when they get finished killing the golden goose (the wealthy) they alone will be responsible to pay the even larger future entitlements.
"In 2010 alone, government at all levels oversaw a transfer of over $2.2 trillion in money, goods and services. The burden of these entitlements came to slightly more than $7,200 for every person in America. Scaled against a notional family of four, the average entitlements burden for that year alone approached $29,000"
http://www.aei-ideas.org/2012/09/romney-needs-to-keep-talking-about-our-fiscally...
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