Speak Out: Police Chases in School Zones

Posted by 356 on Thu, Mar 22, 2012, at 2:09 PM:

This has about been beat to death; my "opinion" only.

Replies (31)

  • Surely, they have a school lock-down policy.

    Who else should have the discretion to call "every available car"?

    I would think that, while a written policy might be in place, each situation would call for individual application and not a "firm" guideline.

    -- Posted by InReply on Thu, Mar 22, 2012, at 3:02 PM
  • I don't like restricting police chaces in school zones. It signals to criminals to head there to help evade police becasue you know they are restricted.

    -- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Thu, Mar 22, 2012, at 3:59 PM
  • -- Posted by Me'Lange on Thu, Mar 22, 2012, at 5:28 PM

    Without knowing the Cape SOP on pursuits, it's hard to say if and what changes should be made. It may simply be a matter of the Corporals and Sergeants needing to remind those under them to follow the SOP and respond as directed with no discretion to leave their area of assignment to "join in".

    For reasons I won't go into, I don't like CGPD, but try to look at things objectively.

    -- Posted by 356 on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 7:01 AM
  • If I remember correctly, Dr. Welker commented that all 3 schools in the area were on lockdown.

    -- Posted by manning on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 7:54 AM
  • Me'Lange,

    Why not march right down to the Cape Girardeau Police Department and request a copy of their pursuit policy? Have you tried that? Get a copy and read it, and then you will have something to criticize. Why do you continue to rant and rave about everything that you know nothing about? I doubt that the police department is concerned that they do not satisfy you.

    -- Posted by arrestthem on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 8:21 AM
  • -- Posted by Me'Lange on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 8:18 AM

    You simply cannot base anything on what you read in the paper and need the SOP on the Pursuit Policy in hand. I know of an instances in which an Officer was told to pursue and apprehend after he advised he didn't think it could be done. He did it, but his speeds exceeded those he felt advisable.

    I don't believe a good policy can simply be "at the Officer's discretion" or is the present policy.

    -- Posted by 356 on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 9:14 AM
  • Maybe we can close the case with 'Alls well that ends well'.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 9:36 AM
  • Honestly, I'm not trying to bust anyones chops here. However, I was very disappointed to read Chief Kinneson's comments stating an outstanding job had been done ... when it seems obvious that lessons could definately be learned from the serious of incidents that unfolded.

    -- Posted by Me'Lange on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 8:18 AM

    I disagree.

    An oustanding job was done. This is a guy who has demonstrated no concern to the pain and suffering of others. This is a guy who chose to arm himself.

    No innocent bystanders were hurt. No police officers were hurt. I count that as a success 100% of the time.

    -- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 9:39 AM
  • Me'Lange, I am beginning to suspect you have your mind made up and merely create these "discussions" to allow you to proselytize rather than facilitate an exchange of ideas.

    -- Posted by 356 on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 10:10 AM
  • lumbrgfktr, Just because one lands a plane safely doesn't mean one can not learn from the approach taken. Same difference here, just because no one was hurt (except the suspect) this time, does not mean the approach was handled 100% correctly. ie Dumb luck and God's grace

    Police reports state (thus fact, right?)

    -- Posted by Me'Lange on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 9:56 AM

    Wrong. Its not the same difference here. You are wanting to change the situation.

    You have a preformed opinion. You are choosing to criticise the situation not based on fact, but based on your opinion.

    In your senario, a plane could land safely. A person who does not beleive we should flying is going to have a different opinion. They will cricize the landing, not becasue it was done correctly, but becasue they feel they should never fly to begin with. That is the problem with your scenario.

    -- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 10:14 AM
  • Why take a "reactive" point of view, when a "proactive" choice was available? The chase (and suicide) most likely could have prevented had the initial approach been handled with more care. IMHO

    -- Posted by Me'Lange on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 9:56 AM

    Then give us the answer. What would have been the correct coure of action?

    What are you talking about "reactive"? Explain that.

    How do you rationally handle irrational people?

    Actually, this could have been avoided if the scumbag chose suicide BEFORE the rape.

    -- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 10:16 AM
  • So when was the chase high speed? Did the other cars that came to the area put others in danger by driving unsafely?

    -- Posted by Old John on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 10:47 AM
  • Given the information the police had before initially approaching the suspect--PD knew where he was living and parking his truck, that he most likely was armed, he had displayed his intent to use force and that he had little regard for others well being-- I'm suggesting Cape PD should have had more than TWO law enforcement present when initially apprehending the suspect aka proactive. Rather than TEN, after a chase began aka reactive.

    I shared this on one of the articles, that parking lot could have easily been blocked so that there was no way (other than foot) the suspect could have fled.

    -- Posted by Me'Lange on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 10:37 AM

    Monday morning QB'ing.

    So we need to send more officiers to every possible situation that could escalate.

    Sure....Who by the way is going to pay for the manpower?

    -- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 11:04 AM
  • I'm hoping Cape PD takes the time to evaluate how badly things COULD have went and initiates the appropriate steps to assure that next time, changes are made to lessen the potential for harm of officesr and/or innocent by-standers (especially students). Patting backs and saying "job well done", will not save someone's life next time.

    -- Posted by Me'Lange on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 10:47 AM

    And yet, after the fact criticizing will also saves lives?

    I don't buy it.

    You keep talking about the poor job they did, mentioned results don't matter and yet can't provide a singe viable example of something they did wrong.

    -- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 11:07 AM
  • Emm ... on the particular narrow residential streets mentioned--most have parking on both sides-- 45-50mph would be considered high speed to most.

    -- Posted by Me'Lange on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 11:04 AM

    No. It doesn't.

    You want it to be considered high speed to justify your complaint.

    I can coast down hill in my residential neighborhood and hit 45-50.

    -- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 11:11 AM
  • "I still don't understand the reason you are discriminating against a law enforcement officer with less than 6 months with the CGPD"

    Theorist,

    At the risk of being called disruptive on a thread that is approaching the point of being beat to death... I have to say this, because the devil made me do it. Maybe that police officer is over 70 and hasn't been retested... making him dangerous and unsafe to drive at any speed.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 11:22 AM
  • a thread that is approaching the point of being beat to death...

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 11:22 AM

    Too late; approached and passed long ago. Look for upcoming episodes of Crusader Rabbit vs the Cape Girardeau Police Department, Crusader Rabbit vs the Cape Girardeau School District, Crusader Rabbit vs the NRA and other fan favorites.

    -- Posted by 356 on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 11:41 AM
  • 356,

    You forgot... Crusader Rabbit vs Drivers over age 70. ;-)

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 11:47 AM
  • Rick,

    Or a re-run of Smokey and the Bandit.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 11:49 AM
  • -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 11:47 AM

    You must forgive me as by some definitions I am old and often forget.

    -- Posted by 356 on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 11:57 AM
  • 356,

    Seek Counseling! :-)

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 12:05 PM
  • 356,

    Seek Counseling! :-)

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 12:05 PM

    I suspect if I did there would shortly be a new highly educated Wal-Mart greeter in Cape with that thousand yard stare. :)

    -- Posted by 356 on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 12:18 PM
  • lumbrgfktr, I've mentioned several things they could have improved upon (in my opinion). 1. only TWO officers on the initial approach 2. TWO attempts escalating in a school zone 3. defined chase policy that would prevent "all available cars" speeding thru town

    Theorist, In my opinion, experience is extemely important in tense situations like this. As mentioned before, it appears he was the first to join in the chase, thus the third officer on the scene.

    And yes, this officer has previous law enforcement experience, but had not been employed with a PD for a significant time frame. None of your business how I know these facts.

    -- Posted by Me'Lange on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 11:25 AM

    No.

    1) You said it should be more than 2 officiers. I also highlighted what was wrong with that statement. Sending multiple officers to every single incident in hopes it doesn't escilate is not practical. And not only that, You also failed to point out how more officers could have prevented the incident, or avoided a "chase". Seeing how the guy was primed to run, I seriously doubt he would have calmly pulled over and surrendered to multiple marked police cars like you are suggesting.

    What you provided were not mistakes, but rather unjustifiable criticism. I fail to see the logic in assuming the guy would surrender to multiple marked cards. And actually, just the opposite. I think it could have escalated to where the passanger may have been hurt as well.

    2) Two attempts esclating in a school zone - not sure what you mean here.

    3) Emergency situation - They had reports of the guy being armed and had somebody in the car with him. That defines emergency situation for me. What if that were your sister in that truck...I am sure you would criticize them for not sending all available cars in that situation.

    Also, ambulences and fire trucks speed through town all the time for EMERGENCY situations. Letting it burn, letting them die is not acceptable. Just like letting him flee with a passanger is not acceptable.

    -- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 12:20 PM
  • lumbrgfktr, Feel free to attempt to drive 40-45 on the route of this chase. It is unlikely that you could manage without incident. Highly populated area, car doors opening, folks walking, school buses, lawn service trailers, not to mention seHospital, franklin and cjhs slow moving construction vehicles.

    -- Posted by Me'Lange on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 11:36 AM

    I tell you what, if there was an Emergency, you bet i would fly through there. And I would actually do it at a REAL high speed.

    Telling police to stop chasing criminals will not lower any danger. Just like telling the fire department to drive the speed limit will not make fires burn slower.

    -- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 12:25 PM
  • I can coast down hill in my residential neighborhood and hit 45-50.

    -- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 11:11 AM

    The folks behind me get upset when I hit the top of the hill at 10mph and then let it coast down hill to 45-50 mph. :)

    -- Posted by Old John on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 12:29 PM
  • You guys are cluless.

    If the government made us all buy chevy volts...High speed chates would never be a problem.

    -- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 12:42 PM
  • Lumber,

    I believe it was 356 who explained the Police Interceptor package for the Chevy Volt. Maybe you could ask him to repeat it. I couldn't do it justice but thought it fit need.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 1:25 PM
  • heard one the two tipsters was told it could be a while before police responded to the tip because it was lunch time

    -- Posted by CSIP2016 on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 1:41 PM
  • lumbrgfktr, First, you need to drive by the parking garage/lot. Look where the police reports state the Mazda was parked, by the elevator. Then come back and tell me the "chase" could not have been prevented by blocking the parking garage/lot or using stop sticks there. Which would have required more than TWO cops.

    (2) Officer Hickey attempted to use "stop sticks" IN, repeating IN a school zone. These are designed to stop the suspects vehicle, thus ESCALATING aka suspect drew his gun IN a school zone.

    No matter what situation one is discussing, it is arrogant and ill advised to think lessons can not be learned from situations ending "okay" or even successfully.

    Last comment to you, as I have clearly voiced my concerns about the recent issue and concern regarding police discretion of pursuit policy. I've heard your stance. Clearly we disagree and that is fine. (And the point of a discussion thread.)

    -- Posted by Me'Lange on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 1:27 PM

    I have seen that garage. And maybe it cold have been preventd. But the cops didn't know that going in. You can not predict what the unpredictable would do. That is only the benefit of the hindsight criticism.

    Also, they tried to pull him over before he even got into the garage. So should the cops need to be waiting to lay strips down on every street?

    I still only see the beenfit of hindsight.

    Also, you are arguing 2 different scenarios. The cops should not chase in a school zone AND stop suspects in a school zone. Kind of darned if you do, darned if you don't.

    Wait. Who is saying that lessons can't be learned. Stop trying to change the argument becasue your weak points have been exposed. Your complain wasn't about the cheif saying "We have nothing to learn hear.". Your complain was about him giving credit to his officers.

    Right now the policy does allow chases in a school zone. The cops did follow that policy. You disagree with that policy. I get that. But I do have a problem with you cricizing the police for actually following policy.

    -- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 2:11 PM
  • Learning goes both ways.

    -- Posted by 356 on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 2:26 PM
  • "I do have a problem with you cricizing the police for actually following policy."

    Lumbrgfktr, That is your problem, not mine. Last I checked, we are still on US soil. :-)~

    I've stated the same concerns and reason for those concerns over and over (and over). The whole point, LEARN from what took place.

    Apathy might work for some, but if I don't like a policy I do something about it.

    -- Posted by Me'Lange on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 2:21 PM

    I have no problem with you stating your concerns.

    But I think publicly calling out the police cheif for comending officers for doing things correctly crosses the line.

    -- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Fri, Mar 23, 2012, at 3:10 PM

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