Speak Out: The gun incident at Kidds

Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Thu, Dec 1, 2011, at 8:18 PM:

Since there was not a lot of posts on the story what do you think about this? I think the guy needed his firearm and the woman should have been arrested. I know this guy and he is not mean.

http://www.semissourian.com/story/1790143.html

This was a comment from a witness:

"The woman got out of her car and came toward him spitting on him. He was blocked in and could not drive away. He has a conceal carry permit. When she called for "back up" from her friends, he put the gun in his waist band and covered it with his shirt. When her friends showed up, one drove in and hit a brand new scooter sitting in the parking lot... scooter hitting an officer. He did nothing illegal. She on the other hand spit on him. She should be in jail. Not him, This story is so bogus!!! Shame on you!!! Once again the media feeding **** to the public. If you are going to report a story... report the entire story. There is no monster on the loose at Kidds. Again.. shame on you!!!!"

Replies (104)

  • We,

    The police have Jr. in jail. They obviously feel like he broke the law. Jr. is not an angel, check out case.net.

    The police report has not been posted to the article, Your so called witness account is nothing more than hearsay.

    -- Posted by ziggie on Thu, Dec 1, 2011, at 8:36 PM
  • Jr. has three pages of blatant disrespect for the law on case.net.

    -- Posted by ziggie on Thu, Dec 1, 2011, at 8:45 PM
  • Does Kidds not have video surveillance?

    If'n I ran a business in that area - there wouldn't be a square foot not recorded for posterity and protection against frivolous liability lawsuits.

    -- Posted by fxpwt on Thu, Dec 1, 2011, at 8:47 PM
  • Maybe he was afraid he would end up like those four guys in Zimbabwe. The ones they are taking the three women to court for.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Dec 1, 2011, at 9:01 PM
  • If he had the gun in a holster hanging from a gun belt in plain sight the incident may not have happenned.

    -- Posted by Old John on Thu, Dec 1, 2011, at 9:47 PM
  • Jr. has three pages of blatant disrespect for the law on case.net.

    -- Posted by ziggie on Thu, Dec 1, 2011, at 8:45 PM

    He still had a CC permit so there were no felonies.

    ******************************************************************

    Who the heck knows what the intentions were at that point he could have been headed into the store to rob them? ... or planning to follow thru on the 'threat'?

    -- Posted by Me'Lange on Thu, Dec 1, 2011, at 9:02 PM

    Everyone there knew what was happening. He was the one being threatened.

    He didn't threaten her other than get his piece and finish pumping gas. The woman had already said and done some pretty nasty things and was calling in the gangsters so the guy was being cautious. I DON'T BLAME HIM.

    ****************************************************************

    But like OJ, mine is holstered, but can be seen strapped on my chest my if I bend over right. I have been in situations like that in MFS so I can understand him protecting himself. It is a "I rather be judged by twelve than be carried by six" deal.

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Thu, Dec 1, 2011, at 10:12 PM
  • Sounds like he ran into a woman running her mouth and did something that may have been a little less than prudent.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Dec 1, 2011, at 10:33 PM
  • Wheels

    He should have just put it in his pocket without showing it.

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Thu, Dec 1, 2011, at 11:45 PM
  • Apparently you folks do NOT know the laws in a case like this and sadly neither do our police. If a permit carrier feels threatened and apparently this was the situation, he had every right to do what he had to do.

    -- Posted by agape on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 4:35 AM
  • Apparently some trust the police to know the "laws" over an anoynomous poster who 'claims' to know the law.

    -- Posted by hello7777 on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 4:53 AM
  • Parking lot at Kidds is horrible, I refuse to shop at their location.

    -- Posted by Dexterite1 on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 5:53 AM
  • 'Police must have enough evidence to charge him, because they did.'

    Me'Lange,

    Is it your natural tendency to accept the authorities' version of all events? I was not there; all my knowledge of the affair comes by secondhand reporting. I find it difficult to take a side in this. We/I do not know whether these two people have a history which might cast some light on this disturbance.

    After all, it was dark. Most witnesses saw only part of the disturbance and many witnesses are prejudiced in some manner.

    Displaying a weapon IS an extreme measure. I am pro gun rights but will support severe consequences if his actions turn out to be out of line.

    -- Posted by Robert* on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 7:36 AM
  • Silly me... if someone feels flashing a gun is necessary to resolve a dispute; it is time for third-party mediation. :-)~

    -- Posted by Me'Lange on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 7:51 AM

    I have done it because there was no time out called to wait for police to get there. Otherwise it was going to escalate to me being attacked and robbed. But I let them know I was packing and hit the interstate.

    I have been in a hold up before and I don't plan to be a unarmed victim again. The lady had called in her gansta reinforcements and they were pulling in.

    I remember a lawyer friend that was intimidated by a man that was coming at him when he pulled his gun and he to was arrested. But he didn't get beat up which was going to happen.

    If you have never seen one of those crazy women in action look it up on youtube. They even scare me since you have no idea of what they will do next.

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 8:56 AM
  • "Consider yourself fore-warned, don't flash a gun at me, after dark in a gas station parking lot. I'll dial 9.1.1. promptly. :-)"

    Consider yourself forewarned, don't spit on me and threaten me with violence from your friends that are on their way to the location, after dark in a gas station parking lot. I'll prepare to defend myself promptly.

    "Police must have enough evidence to charge him, because they did."

    The police don't charge anyone, the prosecutor's do. And there doesn't have to be any evidence to be arrested, or charged, they only need evidence for you to be convicted.

    -- Posted by gomer on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 9:04 AM
  • Me'Lange,

    I am aware of your problem with authority figures. That is why I was surprised that you would so quickly take sides on this.

    What I have read on this thread indicates there may well be more to this issue than simply a person flashing a gun on a dark parking lot.

    I can understand why a police officer might feel it necessary to take the person showing the gun into custody in order to defuse what was potentially a violent situation. And, as a person who supports the second amendment, I feel that anyone who uses a firearm in a dangerous, unprovoked manner should face the consequences.

    However, neither you nor I knows enough details concerning this situation to take an informed position. It would be better to observe as authorities sort the situation out.

    -- Posted by Robert* on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 9:14 AM
  • Many on here really need to refer to RSMo 571.030.

    In part: Unlawful use of weapons--exceptions--penalties.

    571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:

    (4) Exhibits, in the presence of one or more persons, any weapon readily capable of lethal use in an angry or threatening manner; or

    -- Posted by Acronym on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 9:54 AM
  • "Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six."

    Most concealed-carry licensees know this and abide by it. He'll have his day in court to explain his actions.

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 10:08 AM
  • Rick,

    Many is the time a coward hides behind a gun.........or anything else that is bigger than he is.

    -- Posted by Robert* on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 10:09 AM
  • For those who think gun laws are too lax, consider this.... If enforcement, prosecution & punishment were not so lax would there be as many citizens who feel gun ownership and carrying of guns to be necessary?

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 10:17 AM
  • Ike, who died and put you in charge?

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 10:20 AM
  • Acronym - there is nothing in the article that says he 'exhibited the weapon in an angry or threatening manner'. Simply placing your weapon on your person is not exhibiting in a threatening manner. He very well may have, but you cannot tell that from the article posted.

    "Acronym, Thanks for posting facts."

    Posted facts? Yes. We just don't know if it applies to this instance or not, yet.

    -- Posted by gomer on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 11:23 AM
  • -- Posted by gomer on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 11:23 AM

    Exactly, but knowing what constitutes "Unlawful Use of a Weapon" is to me essential in forming an "opinion" as to whether in fact there is reason to believe a law was violated.

    I don't know enough facts to form an opinion at this point. "An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it." - Jef Mallett

    Just as an FYI, I have a Concealed Carry Permit and have spent hundreds of hours in classroom instruction and on the range examining the use of force including when and what level is appropriate and legal from a civilian and Law Enforcement perspective.

    And for clarification, I do not feel "gun control laws are too lax"; have stated before my opinion is more in line with that of the Libertarian Party.

    -- Posted by Acronym on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 11:44 AM
  • -- Posted by Rick * * on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 12:32 PM

    Sorry Rick, but I have to call BS on that and I know people who are experts at both.

    I will admit a knife attack from within 21 feet is next to impossible to defend against and our trainers always advised, "Accept the fact you are going to get cut and go from there." There are a lot of disarming techniques which can be used against someone with a knife. I have seen highly train Special Forces guys have their "red handle knives" taken away and used on them.

    -- Posted by Acronym on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 12:50 PM
  • -- Posted by Me'Lange on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 1:37 PM

    Yes, I remember it and it goes against all of my training and the advice I have given to my family members and anyone who owns a gun for protection. We have always had a designated "safe room". If in danger grab a phone and go there where a weapon is accessible, get behind cover and begin calling 911 and leave the phone line open. Loudly advise ANYONE who tries to enter that you are armed and prepared to deploy deadly force. DO NOT LEAVE THE ROOM LOOKING FOR ANYONE; wait until the Police arrive or someone you know and trust.

    This may not apply to someone who is properly trained in house clearing etc,. but few of us are.

    Armed encounters are not "fun" and anyone who thinks so is either imbalanced or ignorant or both. I have deployed a weapon and to never have to do so again.

    Even if a person does not intend to carry a concealed weapon, such a course by a good instructor is invaluable in learning the legal and moral aspects and helping you decide if you can use deadly force. It is not uncommon for people to leave at this point once they examine their mindset and consequences.

    -- Posted by Me'Lange on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 1:37 PM

    Knives are covered in 571 also as to type, blade length etc.

    I hope this clarifies rather than confuses and let me make it clear, I AM NOT a brave man; never have been never will be.

    -- Posted by Acronym on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 2:00 PM
  • Most true gun owners are NOT cowboy types flashing them at will. The only way I consider concealed carry to be successful is that nobody knows you have it unless there is an absolute and unavoidable reason to use it.

    I have a concealed carry permit, but do not carry in most cases. However when a threat was made on me to do me bodily harm a while back I did carry it for a period of 3 weeks and even my wife did not know I had it on me.

    I never want to have to point a gun at another person, but if it were to be one of those cases where it is to be thee or me, and it is within my power to make it happen, thee is not going to stand a chance.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 2:00 PM
  • Me'Lange, "open carry" is believe it or not a very hot topic in a lot of areas with masses of people openly carrying weapons as many state laws either specifically allow it or do not prohibit it.

    Missouri law does not prohibit open carry, only concealed carry without a permit. Missouri's statutes are however somewhat cloudy in this respect and states in part: 571.030 "so long as such concealable firearm is otherwise lawfully possessed, nor when the actor is also in possession of an exposed firearm or projectile weapon for the lawful pursuit of game, or is in his or her dwelling unit or upon premises over which the actor has possession, authority or control, or is traveling in a continuous journey peaceably through this state."

    Some people object to open carry and some object to concealed carry. The only time I have carried openly was on a firing range or while hunting. Even when I carried a badge next to my weapon, it was concealed. I subscribe to Wheel's philosophy.

    -- Posted by Acronym on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 3:13 PM
  • I put a post on here yesterday and the monitor jerked it right off of here. I had previously stated that today many people are short fused temper and you have to watch what you say as some one might get offended, like the monitor did he must had got offended. Wheels I hope I didn't offend any one my gosh that would be the last thing I would want to do.

    -- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 3:37 PM
  • Like really? Regardless of if this man was feeling threghtened or his personality, he was in a very public place, he simply should have called 911 himself and pressed charges on the woman. Who knows what would have happened if the cops did not show up. There could have been blood-shed by either party, or even an innocent bystander could have been injured or killed.

    -- Posted by really456 on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 3:50 PM
  • the conceal and carry law does not give somebody the right to brandish a weapon or display it in a threatening manner.

    Not sure if that is what he did, but just wanted to clarify that.

    -- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 3:51 PM
  • AARP must be sitting in on me this weekend I found my original post from yesterday news article when that story first broke. Sorry, about that Mr. Monitor now you can get after Wheels you got to watch that Bollinger County hillbilly

    -- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 3:53 PM
  • I never want to have to point a gun at another person, but if it were to be one of those cases where it is to be thee or me, and it is within my power to make it happen, thee is not going to stand a chance.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 2:00 PM

    Same as you I don't want to let people know I am carrying until it is absolutely necessary. When I am on the buying trip I carry cash. At any time I could be in a fight for my life by someone that knows I have it.

    I always carried one in my truck while on the road but now I am legal to carry to and from my motel room cocealed. I refuse go into states like IL that deny me a way to protect myself.

    This world is getting mean and some drug head might kill you for $50. They raise them not to care about life. I grew up with guns and knew the implications of misusing them. Now kids think they are tough guy toys.

    Accro, you are right about taking away weapons. I have a fiend that can take away a gun or knife and break their wrist while he is doing it.

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 3:55 PM
  • Wheels I hope I didn't offend any one my gosh that would be the last thing I would want to do.

    -- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 3:37 PM

    AARP must be sitting in on me this weekend I found my original post from yesterday news article when that story first broke. Sorry, about that Mr. Monitor now you can get after Wheels you got to watch that Bollinger County hillbilly

    -- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 3:53 PM

    Dangit Swamp, I was just getting ready to post and tell you that you were indeed pretty offensive and I read down a little further and you go and prove it for me. ;-)

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 4:05 PM
  • Like really? Regardless of if this man was feeling threghtened or his personality, he was in a very public place, he simply should have called 911 himself and pressed charges on the woman. Who knows what would have happened if the cops did not show up.

    -- Posted by really456 on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 3:50 PM

    He was blocked in and could not get out. During that time she had already spit on him and had called loudly on her cell phone for backup from her friends and they were arriving. Now that would have me in a defense mode.

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 4:05 PM
  • -- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 3:51 PM

    Actually that is kind of a grey area as you can justify doing so if it involves reacting to a real or perceived threat using the "reasonable man" theory.

    Law Enforcement Officers are specifically exempted from that section, but that does not mean they can do so at will absent a legitimate "Use of force situation".

    Another very important thing to keep in mind, you may very well be found innocent of any criminal charges in a use of deadly force incident and still be subject to a civil suit that will bankrupt you.

    None of this stuff is simple and how you come out may very well be dependent on the area in which you are involved.

    I'm out, got kids to play with.

    -- Posted by Acronym on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 4:06 PM
  • Me"Lange, About the guy you saw at the yard sale. I know a guy that deals in replica old west type guns and holsters. The holsters and belts are sold to be used with real guns and ammo but the guns are non working collector pieces. He often wears his wares. He also deals in silver and gold coins and other neat stuff and sets up at the 100 mile yard sale with a lot of $ worth on display.

    Not sure if the hog leg he has in the holster on his hip is real or not, he won't say and you sure couldn't tell without an in-hand look.

    -- Posted by Old John on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 5:15 PM
  • So it looks like Patricia Cox and the gangstas must have lied to the police. She should have been charged with assault. BTW Mel, Look at her record.

    http://www.semissourian.com/story/1790816.html

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 5:28 PM
  • Sounds like the police and prosecuter are worried more about not appearing racially biased than calling it like it is.

    -- Posted by Old John on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 5:46 PM
  • Me'Lange, .................. Maybe he was a Federal Agent, Retail Trade officer. :)

    -- Posted by Old John on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 5:49 PM
  • Don't know what he "was". He probably belongs in a mustache-like, power-hungery, personality disorder group. :-)~

    It certainly made me very uncomfortable. Suspect that was his intent.

    -- Posted by Me'Lange on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 6:16 PM

    You should have asked him about it. But a power hungry disorder? Geez......

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 6:24 PM
  • Acronym

    Your post have been very beneficial and I for one appreciate your insight and knowledge that you have brought to this discussion.

    If I may, for those who do subscribe to "open carry" instead of concealed. A website that has a good forum for review by state and cities is at http://opencarry.org/ . Under the Missouri forum you can find a list of cities that allow for open carry. For myself I prefer concealed and always will.

    -- Posted by gman on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 6:25 PM
  • When I was growing up I always heard it was legal to carry a visible gun such as in a holster on your hip. I was also told you could carry one in a vehicle as long as it was in plain sight.

    Several years back a friend that traveled a lot in his job often slept in his truck. He threw a large frame holster up on the dash before going to the back of the van to sleep.

    Once he was awakened to find several LEOs demanding he come out. They insisted he hand over the gun. After he finally convinced them he didn't own a gun and used to holster to make people think he had one, they went away. That's when he decided he better read up on gun laws.

    -- Posted by Old John on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 6:59 PM
  • OJ

    There are very few OTR truck drivers that don't have one in the truck. The best thing to have is a small dog to keep a lookout while you are sleeping.

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 7:44 PM
  • Not sure if the hog leg he has in the holster on his hip is real or not, he won't say and you sure couldn't tell without an in-hand look.

    -- Posted by Old John on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 5:15 PM

    Old John,

    Some on here are able to tell without looking... they know even if they cannot prove it. Some of us do not have expertise on everything.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sat, Dec 3, 2011, at 11:38 AM
  • - Posted by Rick * * on Sat, Dec 3, 2011, at 11:12 AM

    Come on Rick, you and I both know a knife is next to useless when thrown. People watch too many Ninja movies. Even well trained Police/Military miss more often than they hit with handguns in a real gunfight. Look up the statistics on rounds fire per kill in warfare and look at the same thing in police shootings.

    I agree an experienced person with a knife is extremely deadly up close, we were trained to shoot them well before that.

    W. E. Fairbairn and E. A. Sykes have written some really interesting stuff on it. Knife fighting is a specialized skill set that few can master, if you have then my hat is off to you. For the average person it is just a good way to get shot or have it taken away and used on you.

    I know people who teach this stuff and it is not something I could ever become proficient nor can most.

    -- Posted by Acronym on Sat, Dec 3, 2011, at 11:44 AM
  • Wheels, Some seem to suggest if you have a weapon that could be brandished, you are probably guilty of it.

    Reminds me of another story in the news about a woman that had a picture of a gun on the design of her purse going through extra scrutiny at an airport.

    -- Posted by Old John on Sat, Dec 3, 2011, at 11:51 AM
  • -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sat, Dec 3, 2011, at 11:38 AM

    No matter how much knowledge a person possess or thinks/he she possesses, the assumption must always be that it is real.

    Replica firearms are very popular in countries like Japan where possession is prohibited. There are actually Japanese handgun shooters who regularly win matches in this country and use them to train with.

    -- Posted by Acronym on Sat, Dec 3, 2011, at 12:26 PM
  • -- Posted by Rick * * on Sat, Dec 3, 2011, at 1:57 PM

    At the risk of going over plowed ground, throwing a knife even for an expert is no different than an expert firing a gun. An expert shot is going to miss more than they hit and so is someone throwing a knife. My gun holds 13 rounds, so if I hit every once in a while, I will be able to adequately defend myself whereas when you throw a knife, you don't have a backup.

    Also while a knife may kill you, it takes time to bleed out and a lot of damage can be done even after a fatal injury. Even a fairly heavy caliber firearm seldom does a "one shot stop" refer to studies by Evan Marshall, Dr. Marvin Fackler the FBI and others. Knives send out no secondary missiles, temporary wound cavities with attendant shock etc.

    I am certainly not knocking knives, I have some really nice ones some of which are collectables and even made quite a few growing up on the farm.

    I respect your opinion so we are just going to have to sort of agree to disagree just a bit on this one.

    -- Posted by Acronym on Sat, Dec 3, 2011, at 2:25 PM
  • FYI Rick and Acro, if a person comes at you with a knife that he is holding it by the handle backwards you have a problem.

    When I was young I worked night shift at a gas station. The owner to me if a guy comes in with a gun just give him the money. He said if he has a knife run.

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sat, Dec 3, 2011, at 7:39 PM
  • If he had the gun in a holster hanging from a gun belt in plain sight the incident may not have happenned. Posted by Old John

    Kind of agree with you, Old J. ... Have told Pops that carrying UN-concealed might be sort of a deterent to those who consider accosting someone. On the other hand ... guess there could be some who might consider that somewhat of a challenge ...

    Anyway, as for this incident ... What's the point of having the weapon (and the permit) if one isn't allowed to at least pull it out of concealment when threatened? Just asking ...

    Loved this, Regret: "... there was no time out called to wait for police to get there."

    Hoping that all women who have to be out alone late at night at least know to carry their keys in their fist, with one sticking out between their fingers ... and that they would not be so sissy as to hesitate ramming it into a face if they were attacked. Or I guess they could just let themselves be attacked, robbed, raped or whatever ... Me? I'd prefer better protection ... And no, Wheels, I haven't gone to the classes yet, darn it.

    -- Posted by gurusmom on Sat, Dec 3, 2011, at 9:10 PM
  • Me'Lange wrote:

    "These discussions remind me of a 'ha-ha' new truck driver story."

    I'm also reminded of a truck-driver stroy from the '70s'.

    A friend was making a delivery into a rather rough area of Memphis. A police officer pulled him over, checked his license, and asked what he was doing in that area of town. When he explained that he had to deliver his load to an address in the area, the officer asked if he had any firearms.

    My friend hesitantly asnwered that there was a pistol in the glove-box. The police officer told him "Well, it ain't gonna do you no good in there, bet it out where you can get at it when you need it."

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Sun, Dec 4, 2011, at 10:00 AM
  • I think SHE should be charged with a HATE CRIME.

    -- Posted by Hot Dog on Sun, Dec 4, 2011, at 10:41 AM
  • FYI Rick and Acro, if a person comes at you with a knife that he is holding it by the handle backwards you have a problem.

    When I was young I worked night shift at a gas station. The owner to me if a guy comes in with a gun just give him the money. He said if he has a knife run.

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sat, Dec 3, 2011, at 7:39 PM

    There are actually different methods of holding a knife depending on how you are taught and intended method of attack, but certainly not bad advice.

    My preferred response is to shoot them several times as I am getting too darned old to run.

    Of course now if he has a shirt with "Rick" on it I am just going to give up. :)

    -- Posted by Acronym on Sun, Dec 4, 2011, at 3:00 PM
  • My preferred response is to shoot them several times as I am getting too darned old to run.

    -- Posted by Acronym on Sun, Dec 4, 2011, at 3:00 PM

    I understand. Running is no longer a option if they are young,

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sun, Dec 4, 2011, at 3:21 PM
  • -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sun, Dec 4, 2011, at 3:21 PM

    Pay special attention to the last one.

    Life from the seat of a tractor..

    Your fences need to be horse-high, pig-tight and bull-strong.

    Keep skunks and bankers at a distance.

    Life is simpler when you plow around the stump.

    A bumble bee is considerably faster than a John Deere (but not a Kubota!) tractor.

    Words that soak into your ears are whispered?...not yelled.

    Meanness don't just happen overnight.

    Forgive your enemies; it messes up their heads.

    You should not corner something that you know is meaner than you.

    It don't take a very big person to carry a grudge.

    You cannot unsay a cruel word.

    Every path has a few puddles.

    When you wallow with pigs, expect to get dirty.

    The best sermons are lived, not preached.

    Most of the stuff people worry about, ain't never gonna happen anyway.

    Don't judge folks by their relatives.

    Remember that silence is sometimes the best answer.

    Live a good and honorable life, then when you get older and think back, you'll enjoy it a second time.

    Don't interfere with somethin' that ain't bothering you none.

    Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.

    If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop diggin'.

    Sometimes you get, and sometimes you get got.

    The biggest troublemaker you'll probably ever have to deal with, watches you from the mirror every mornin'.

    Always drink upstream from the herd.

    Good judgment comes from experience, and a lotta that comes from bad judgment.

    Gettin' the cat outta the bag is a whole lot easier than puttin' it back in.

    If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try orderin' somebody else's dog around.

    Live simply, love generously, care deeply,

    Speak kindly, and leave the rest to God.

    And the best one....

    Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you!

    -- Posted by Acronym on Sun, Dec 4, 2011, at 4:01 PM
  • Acronym.

    I like this one.

    "Life is simpler when you plow around the stump."

    A couple of ladies on here haven't learned that yet.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Dec 4, 2011, at 6:56 PM
  • Wheels, are you talking about me?

    -- Posted by Turnip on Sun, Dec 4, 2011, at 7:05 PM
  • Actually, no I wasn't Turnips.

    I believe you to be smarter than the pair I was thinking about.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Dec 4, 2011, at 7:12 PM
  • Now this sheriff understands the way things should be.

    http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2011/12/01/athens-man-takes-law-into-own-han...

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sun, Dec 4, 2011, at 7:33 PM
  • Rick,

    We had one patch where the timber had been cut and there was nothing left of value and the ground was rich, so we started farming it. There ain't nothing tougher than a new ground stump unless it is maybe 10 acres of them.

    You can try to burn them, pull them or just plain curse them and they still stand between you and the end of the field. You learn to just go around them. In time.... they too shall pass. I have seen that field in the past 10 years and in their own good time they are gone.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Dec 4, 2011, at 8:38 PM
  • Rick, I guess I'm having a blonde moment, cuz' I don't know. "Life is simpler when you plow around the stump." ?? I have never plowed anything. I just figured Wheels was trying to start trouble, he usually is. ☺

    -- Posted by Turnip on Sun, Dec 4, 2011, at 8:46 PM
  • Turnips,

    You know what a tree stump is? If you do and you imagine that stump to be some 24 to 30 inches in diameter, do you see why it would be easier for a farmer to plow around it than to try to outsmart the stump? Remember when Spank and I was going to take your 3 year old and give him some basic training in chewing tobacco, cussin and other necessary items needed to survive out on the farm..... I think we should have started with you! ☺ ☺ ☺ ☺

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Dec 4, 2011, at 8:58 PM
  • If you get tired of plowing around the stump you could always make use of a couple of sticks of dynamite, Wheels. Of course, someone would probably object nowadays.

    -- Posted by Robert* on Sun, Dec 4, 2011, at 9:32 PM
  • Dynamite was not in the picture when I was growing up Stnmsn8. Bollinger County might have been short a couple of farmers if we had tried that. :-( :-(

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Dec 4, 2011, at 9:36 PM
  • Dad had a way to deal with stumps. Me and my brother, two shovels, a saw, a grubbing bar, and an ax. Oh yea, lots of hours. Labor was free.

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sun, Dec 4, 2011, at 9:44 PM
  • Much simpler to plow around the stump and allow nature (and time) to take it's course. Of course, when the crops grew tall around the stump you always had to remember.............

    -- Posted by Robert* on Sun, Dec 4, 2011, at 10:03 PM
  • Stnmsn8,

    We raised corn in that patch of stumps. No problem... no high speed chinery, unless of course the mules ran away while corn gathering was underway.

    Regarding the way your Dad handled stumps... I can almost close my eyes and hear what he said back in the kitchen, Well Mom, those two boys are not going to be causing any trouble... for a couple of days anyway.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Dec 4, 2011, at 10:30 PM
  • Sorry,

    Second part of that last post was for Regrets.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Dec 4, 2011, at 10:32 PM
  • It was told that the legend of buried civil war gold right under all those stumps along the fence row on grandad's farm along the old Bloomfield road worked wonders on stumps.

    -- Posted by Old John on Sun, Dec 4, 2011, at 11:12 PM
  • One real eye-opener when plowing in a field full of stumps and/or rock. That one time when the trip-beam on the John Deere moldboard plows did not trip. I have known the time when I was looking at the sun before I could throw that hand clutch!!!!!!!!!!

    -- Posted by Robert* on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 7:57 AM
  • stnmsn8 wrote:

    "Much simpler to plow around the stump and allow nature (and time) to take it's course."

    Not if they're locust tree stumps....

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 9:50 AM
  • Me'Lange said "I prefer to have larger "stumps" ground into saw-dust by a professional."

    Well, I married into a family with 7 girls... two were angels, and I married one of them. The other 5 thought they were professional stump movers too. Then there was the one brother who married a lady who, if Satan had a sister, she was it. She was a stump mover extraordinar, or so she thought.

    Now the dear sister-in-law and the stump mover extraordinar are gone, the other 5 stump movers took retirement. Checked my roots and this stump is still pretty tight.

    Give it your best shot!

    And how am I doing today.... why thank you for asking. I am doing just lovely. I saved a $100,000 out of my proposed budget already this morning by not buying that new Mercedes someone spoke of on one of these threads.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 11:28 AM
  • Well Mom, those two boys are not going to be causing any trouble... for a couple of days anyway.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Dec 4, 2011, at 10:30 PM

    My grandmother would tell my dad he worked us like a chain gang. He always told her "it keeps them out of trouble". He also asked her why she didn't tell his dad that.

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 11:56 AM
  • Regrets,

    Thank your lucky stars he taught you how to work. Grandmothers get a little soft when it comes to grandkids.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 12:10 PM
  • After spitting on him multiple times and threatening by she called her son to come "beat his @$$" she deserved to be arrested. Perhaps Morley will see the light and pitch this case. Shame on you mrs Cox!

    -- Posted by bebacksoon on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 12:27 PM
  • After spitting on him multiple times and threatening by she called her son to come "beat his @$$" she deserved to be arrested. Perhaps Morley will see the light and pitch this case. Shame on you mrs Cox!

    -- Posted by bebacksoon on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 12:28 PM
  • I started on a stump that was about 2' high and 18" across. When I had dug down a couple feet all around it was clear this thing is over 4' wide and I'm still not down to the roots. Now I have reached to limits of the hoe without digging out a lower platform all around to position the tractor on.

    Is 75' from the house and 30' from the underground gas line too close for dynamite?

    -- Posted by Old John on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 1:40 PM
  • Old John,

    I don't know, but I would like to watch from a safe distance. Could be a life changing event.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 1:45 PM
  • Old John,

    PS: When you run out of ideas... I think I can direct you to a perphessunal. ;-)

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 1:50 PM
  • Ooh, Shapley, I hate those locust trees. Plowing within 100 yards of them can be dangerous. I have been trying to forget them for about thirty years now.

    The locust tree is living proof there is a devil!

    -- Posted by Robert* on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 2:27 PM
  • My aunt use to put a washtub on the stump of locust trees and let the bugs eat it. It worked.

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 2:36 PM
  • I saved a $100,000 out of my proposed budget already this morning by not buying that new Mercedes someone spoke of on one of these threads. -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 11:28 AM

    Ahhh, ummm, Wheels - you sold yourself short there on the frugality, IMO. Also saved another $5-$8K in upfront sales taxes and $1,600 annually in personal property tax on that $100K cost avoidance. :-)

    -- Posted by fxpwt on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 2:57 PM
  • fxpwt,

    Saving all of that money on my proposed budget and getting all of those extra savings as a bonus... just thinking about it makes me tired, I should go take a nap.

    Does this make me as wise as the US Government?

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 3:03 PM
  • Wheels - figure you and the US government are just about polar opposites.

    One had an opportunity where could have spent but didn't, the other had numerous opportunities where did spend but shouldn't have.

    :-)~

    -- Posted by fxpwt on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 3:11 PM
  • Wheels - figure you and the US government are just about polar opposites.

    :-)~

    -- Posted by fxpwt on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 3:11 PM

    Why Thank You Fxpwt. That could qualify for the highest compliment I have ever been paid..... ☺ ☺ ☺ ☺

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 3:25 PM
  • Wheels, I would rather have your Acura than a Benz or BMW myself.

    -- Posted by Acronym on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 4:27 PM
  • Acronym,

    My wife loves "HER" Acura. We take it with us when we travel with the motor home. Actually I had no intention of buying a new car of any shape or description. I did buy a 97 S500 Mercedes from a friend to help him out recently. I am down to having a light connected on the dash to make it completely DOT compatible. It came out of Canada. Not sure I would want to do that again. The problem wasn't the way the car is built. Only one stinking light turned off on the dash on the Canadian model. Else it is 100% even California emissions compatible. Finding someone to help you with what you need was the problem. Even the US DOT, or whatever they are called today had problems. It was finally decided there was one guy in Washington who could help... call him. Being 4:00 Central Time on Friday when I found this out, I got on the internet and worked my way through that maze over the weekend and finally figured it out for myself. If Henry Ford and the other pioneers had this crap to go through you would still be deciding what horse to buy to pull your buggy by how many 'hands' high he was. It is a fine riding car, 15 years old now, with 22,252 miles on it.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 5:31 PM
  • Well we have an update. Patricia Cox said she isn't racist and most of her family is white. She said she is going to have the white boy prosecuted to the full extent of the law for not obeying her big mouth.

    The bad thing is Morley must be worried he might upset the black population if he doesn't ruin someones life that was only protecting himself. He says he need to get more information on the incident that will take a week? Geez Morley. Let him go or prosecute her also.

    These things bother me when a big mouth woman can assault you and then have you prosecuted even if you have a witness.

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 5:39 PM
  • Wheels - perhaps a bit too late for you in this case, but I've had pretty good luck with some of the independent user forums - Impala, F150, Jeep, and Saturn. Lots of knowledge not readily found in shop manuals and the like.

    Have to poke around a bit to see which forums have the useful helpful people, and which have mainly the chuckleheads and flamers trading jabs about stereos, loud exhausts, 'do these wheels make my truck look phat?', etc.

    Likely more of a problem with the F150 and Jeep forums than the Mercedes ones. :-)

    -- Posted by fxpwt on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 5:39 PM
  • I heard from an old timer years ago about removing stumps. Don't know if it works, but here goes. Drill several holes in the stump. Pour salt peter in the holes. In about 60 days you can set the stump on fire and it will burn under ground even getting rid of the roots. Anybody else ever heard of this method? Might just be a myth.

    -- Posted by howdydoody on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 5:46 PM
  • Regrets - I'm guessing there isn't any video surveillance available. IMO, would've gone a long way as to who moved where and did what through all this.

    As cheap as those systems are getting, might be something for these as well as any business owners to consider to protect themselves as well as their patrons.

    And no, I do not sell, service, or otherwise profit from these systems. Just have one running here at the house, and love it for the peace-of-mind. Biggest discovery thus far has been identifying which dog left what pile.

    -- Posted by fxpwt on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 5:47 PM
  • My two are. diesel stop is a great powerstroke source.

    www.truckforums.com/

    www.thedieselstop.com/

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 5:50 PM
  • Biggest discovery thus far has been identifying which dog left what pile.

    -- Posted by fxpwt on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 5:47 PM

    Never thought about that.

    I figured they would have video on their pumps. I just hate to see someone railroaded.

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 5:52 PM
  • These things bother me when a big mouth woman can assault you and then have you prosecuted even if you have a witness.

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 5:39 PM

    Hmmmmm!

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 6:01 PM
  • Mercedes and BMW quality control slipped quite a bit for a while and I would be a bit concerned about them. They use to be among the finest cars made. Yours was probably made before the problems. I don't think it is that they are bad cars, just not what they once were.

    Unlike Rick I have been running the Rice Burners for many years after getting tired of having headliners of American models falling down on our heads, door handles breaking off and replacing engines at 100k. We had to have a new transmission in our GMC before 30K; still have because we need something its size from time to time. I have a relative with a new Corvette that is in and out of the shop pretty regularly.

    Out now; have a good evening.

    -- Posted by Acronym on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 6:18 PM
  • Wheels - perhaps a bit too late for you in this case, but I've had pretty good luck with some of the independent user forums - Impala, F150, Jeep, and Saturn. Lots of knowledge not readily found in shop manuals and the like.

    Have to poke around a bit to see which forums have the useful helpful people, and which have mainly the chuckleheads and flamers trading jabs about stereos, loud exhausts, 'do these wheels make my truck look phat?', etc.

    Likely more of a problem with the F150 and Jeep forums than the Mercedes ones. :-)

    -- Posted by fxpwt on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 5:39 PM

    Fxpwt,

    Thanks for the information, but in this case I am not allowed to help myself because of government regulations.

    Problem, there are two specific forms needing filled out. EPA compliance and the DOT highway safety compliance form.

    In the case of the EPA form all information on what models comply are listed on the Web and all you have to do is print the applicable ones. In the case of the DOT form you have about 14 different circumstances that can bring you into compliance. In my case I needed to comply with 2b and that requires a statement on Mother Mercedes letter head stating that such and such VIN no auto is in compliance. I now have that letter with the exception listed on the light telling me if the brake fluid is running low. I think it is a software thing to turn it on... but even if I knew how, it wouldn't count, because I need another letter from Mother Mercedes US on official stationary, this time saying that they indeed made the modification through an official dealer's shop. And there were two minor recall items that were not taken care of in 1998 that they have to fix under warranty. How about that warranty on a 15 year old car. And they will give me a car to tool around in when I bring it in, in the morning.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 6:18 PM
  • Mercedes and BMW quality control slipped quite a bit for a while and I would be a bit concerned about them.

    -- Posted by Acronym on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 6:18 PM

    Indeed it did, around the year 2000 they had some bad rust issues. The 2004 I own never had the rust problem, it was fixed by then, but there were a number of other issues in the first 50,000 miles. Funny but after the 50,000 mile warranty expired the problems seem to have pretty much been taken care of. Part of their problem I believe were initiated when they reduced the weight of the S series by about 500 lbs in either 1979 or 2000. Done to meet mpg requirements I would suspect.

    The 97 model I bought from the friend still has the cosmolene on the underparts from the factory. The friend wouldn't take it out in the rain. Most of what he did was wash and wax it. No door dings, no rock chips and no scratches, and the mechanic who checked it for me tried to buy it.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 6:31 PM
  • Doggone - may has to look at these Mercedes rides on the next go-round.

    Thoroughly ticked at GM for their attitude and corresponding legal ruling that the Impy isn't warrantied in any way, shape, or form - because it was made by the 'old GM', a company that no longer exists and thus cannot be held accountable.

    On the bright side - three wheel bearings replaced on a three-model-year-old vehicle, only one to go.

    -- Posted by fxpwt on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 7:49 PM
  • My wife has one of Rick's "Rice Burners" which she really likes. It is an Acura.

    In all of my years I have only had 5 new cars. Everything else was used.

    I joined the economy crowd and purchased a 1960 Ford Falcon, then a 1964 Ford Galaxy 500, next a 77 Lincoln Mark 5, and two Mazdaa RX7s. Before, in between and after those new ones, I have always purchased used cars, preferring to buy a higher quality used one than an overpriced low end model. That way someone else takes the sting of that first big hit. And I don't mind driving them until the wheels fall off. I drive a car for me and no one else. Will have to get rid of something next spring, and at this point I don't know if it is going to be the 15 year old car with 22,000 miles on it or the 8 year old car with around 65000 miles on it. Either one is built to last longer than they will probably issue me a driver's license to operate it.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 8:12 PM
  • Howdy,

    I have heard a lot of things about saltpeter over the years... but go to admit this is a first.

    Could be something to it. I guess what I heard was that a certain body party wouldn't stand in the way of anything, the way a stump does.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 8:19 PM
  • Rick

    Me thinks someone is trying not to upset a portion of Cape. They are going to roast a man that was worried about his safety and let someone off that admitted she was guilty but lied about it also.

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 10:06 PM
  • I agree Rick. In MFS they had a shooting by a white LEO that had to shoot an old man that pulled a shotgun on him. There was three witnesses (citizens)other than the cops there that said it was justified but by morning they had over 250 that said the cop murdered him. That almost turned into a riot.

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 10:35 PM
  • I had a stump problem a few years back. An old cottenwood tree got taken out by the 2003 tornado. A few years later, my neighbor and I were out shooting the bull, and noticed it had termites in it.

    I went and bought a big bag of Kingsford charcoal and lighter fluid. We stacked the charcoal around the stump, dowsed it in lighter fluid and set it on fire. The next morning, no more stump.

    It does make it fun when you can stand around drinking beer and watch it burn,

    -- Posted by SpankyTheTanky on Tue, Dec 6, 2011, at 1:05 PM
  • It does make it fun when you can stand around drinking beer and watch it burn,

    -- Posted by SpankyTheTanky on Tue, Dec 6, 2011, at 1:05 PM

    Why Spank, I am surprised at you. I would never let that stuff pass my lips. ;-)

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Dec 6, 2011, at 1:08 PM
  • If your looking for real protection, look to the government for the right way to invest in security. http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/homeland-security-equipment-includes-13-sn...

    -- Posted by Old John on Tue, Dec 6, 2011, at 1:30 PM

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