Speak Out: Depoliticize Everything

Posted by Old John on Thu, Oct 27, 2011, at 9:56 AM:

BC, This article seems to touch upon a lot of what you have mentioned in prior posts.

Good read although I don't look to see Mauzy's solution sweeping the nation anytime soon.

Replies (118)

  • Good to see another private law society proponent and Mises subscriber in SEMO.

    All it takes is for people to hear the logic and understand.

    Anarchy is the radical idea that stealing is bad.

    -- Posted by uberfan20 on Thu, Oct 27, 2011, at 12:29 PM
  • BC, I was looking forward to another lecture from Hillsdale College on the constitution tonight but for some reason could not get the site to open. Wonder if anyone else tried. The course schedule indicated it would be relevant to this thread.

    -- Posted by Old John on Thu, Oct 27, 2011, at 8:25 PM
  • Is the president is doing his part to depolicitize by not congradulating the Cards on their win? :)

    -- Posted by Old John on Sat, Nov 5, 2011, at 12:30 PM
  • -- Posted by Old John on Sat, Nov 5, 2011, at 1:11 PM
  • Yea, sure! When the sun rises in the West will anything be de-politicised. Nice dream, though.

    -- Posted by voyager on Sun, Nov 6, 2011, at 5:14 PM
  • Obama called SF after their win? Isn't that Pelosi's town? I guess he doesn't like Missouri.

    -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sun, Nov 6, 2011, at 7:29 PM
  • Regrets, he knows he will loose by a larger margin in Missouri in 2012 than he did in 2008. Why would he want to congratulate us?

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Nov 6, 2011, at 8:28 PM
  • Maybe he thinks the St Louis based team is a Catholic/Christian organization. [cardinals] :)

    -- Posted by Old John on Sun, Nov 6, 2011, at 11:19 PM
  • Theo-I think differntly, even though you didn't ask me. I would venture to say that the world series did more to stimulate the economy and create more long term jobs than any stimulus program. That's the actual economy, not the false gubment one. World hunger will always be with us and we need to keep working on that and global warming will take care of itself.

    -- Posted by Knoblickian on Mon, Nov 7, 2011, at 7:33 AM
  • Theorist

    This may come as a shock to you, but I am not a sports enthusiast. Never watched a ball game this season until the final playoffs and then the final World Series games.

    But I do think a sitting president owes the team that much. And please don't give me that crap about how involved he is in all of those issues you mentioned. His primary involvement since 2007 has been nonstop campaigning.

    Quite frankly Theorist, I could care less if he never set foot in Missouri again. Who needs him?

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Nov 7, 2011, at 10:14 AM
  • Theorist,

    When a President truly wants to solve a problem, the first thing he does is gather the leaders of both parties at a meeting in the White House. He lays out the problem as it concerns the nation as a whole. By laying a foundation of national interest he can then ask each party to lay down it's special interests for the good of all. Then, and only then, the legislation is written and worded in a way that both parties can support.

    True leadership does not call out an opposition leader during a State of the Union address or before a joint session of Congress. It works behind closed doors to assure the participants that measures passed will create a positive outcome for all parties involved.

    This President has not developed leadership skills. I am amazed that he passed up a photo-op. Perhaps he was fearful that he would not be able to outshine Albert Pujols?

    -- Posted by Robert* on Mon, Nov 7, 2011, at 10:41 AM
  • Again, we have all strayed from the original topic of this thread. The person who is focused upon taking care of family and meeting his/her responsibilities in the community tends not to get involved in politics until forced to do so in self-defense. Even then, that individual is not as well-educated in the methods of applying influence as the person who has learned from early on to use government to fulfill his/her desires.

    -- Posted by Robert* on Mon, Nov 7, 2011, at 10:52 AM
  • "Well, they are in SAINT Louis. So by Shap's reasoning, they are all Catholic."

    A typical Theorist mistake. All I've said was that Saint Louis was founded as a Catholic community and named for a Catholic Saint. A fact Theorist has yet to acknowledge, and continues to misconstrue as my arguing that anything related to the City of St. Louis is, by definition, Catholic.

    Corpus Christi, Texas, by contrast, was not founded as a Catholic Town, but was named for the bay which was named 'Corpus Christi' by its founder, Alonzo Alvarez de Pineda, because he discovered it on the day of the Feast of Corpus Christi. The settlement, and the later Army encampment that sprang up there were originally called 'Kinney's Ranch', after the trading posts' founder. They later adopted the name Corpus Christi, not so much out of respect for the Catholic heritage as for the fact that the place was already named that on maps - that being the name of the bay on which it was established.

    When the U.S. Navy sought to name a ballistic missle submarine after the city, the Catholic Church objected. The idea of having a missile armed with nuclear warheads capable of wiping out large segments of the civilian population along with military targets bearing the moniker 'The Body of Christ' was unappealing to them. The Navy compromised by naming the vessel 'City of Corpus Christi', to more accurate reflect that it was named after the city, and not the Holy Eucharist.

    Thus it is not 'my logic' that determines whether a city is Catholic in origin, but rather the History of the place. I still do not understand why Theorist has so much difficulty understanding that, being a teacher and all.

    I guess she just doesn't want to admit she was wrong about the place merely being named after the 'King of France'...

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Mon, Nov 7, 2011, at 11:37 AM
  • stnmsn8 wrote:

    "The person who is focused upon taking care of family and meeting his/her responsibilities in the community tends not to get involved in politics until forced to do so in self-defense. Even then, that individual is not as well-educated in the methods of applying influence as the person who has learned from early on to use government to fulfill his/her desires."

    The founding fathers sought to deal with this by simply giving the more distant federal government very little power over the daily lives of such citizens. The common man found most of his political energies devoted to worrying about those aspects of government that were likely to impact him directly: the local school board, the municipal and county boards, etc. For bigger issues, he may find himself dealing with his State Representative or State Senator, who used lived in the general geographical area, and could be reached if needed.

    The federal government, which dealt with much larger and more remote issues; fighting wars and such, was seldom on the local citizens' minds.

    Unfortunately, ever restless for power, the government grew both in size and scope. The idea that 'bigger is better' fueled the idea that the federal government was in the best position to solve our most minute problems. Whenever they found the states improperly dealing with an issue, or inadequate to the task at hand, they stepped in. Unfortunately, once they had their nose in the tent, they just kept wiggling themselves in. Seldom did they simply resolve the issue at hand and go back to their business, but rather established an agency to continuously monitor and deal with the issue they supposedly resolved.

    If the states weren't resolving their labour issues well enough, we needed a federal department of labour. When education became an issue, the created a department of Health, education, and welfare. As federal meddling in education grew, the Department of Education branched off onto its own. Federal involvement in education has grown bigger, and the poor citizen finds his local school board more or less powerless over the issues that actually affect his childrens' education.

    The solution, of course, is the Libertarian one - reduce the size and scope of the federal government to that which it was intended to do. But we ain't likely to see that, since so many have so much invested at the federal level that they are ill-inclined to reduce that power. By that, I'm not just talking about corporations. The AARP, with its influence on keeping the federal government buying the votes of senior citizens and meddling in health insurance has a vested interest in keeping big government big, and will fight tooth and nail to keep it from getting any smaller.

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Mon, Nov 7, 2011, at 11:56 AM
  • ...and here I was staying out of this thread until Theorist decided to drag my name into it with her mischaracterization of my statement....

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Mon, Nov 7, 2011, at 11:58 AM
  • Theorist wrote:

    "I also think the city was named after him because of his life, not the fact that the Catholic Church thought he was worthy of sainthood."

    As has already been discussed, if that were the case they would have simply named it 'Louisville' or 'Louisburg' or 'Louis'. The use of the title 'Saint' has a very specific, and a very Catholic, connotation.

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Mon, Nov 7, 2011, at 12:16 PM
  • http://www.psichurch.com/churches/140stlouis/history.html

    "When Pierre Liguest Laclede and his First Lieutenant Auguste Chouteau founded the City of St. Louis in 1764, Laclede dedicated the square just west of where he built his home, to church and graveyard purposes. The first Catholic Church in St. Louis built on this site, was a small log house built in 1770. St. Louis IX, King of France, is the Patron Saint of the City and of the Church. In 1776, the mission of St. Louis became a canonical parish and the second log cabin church was built. Its bell, the gift of Lieutenant Governor Don Piernos and enriched by 200 Spanish silver dollars in its casting, can be seen today in the Old Cathedral Museum."

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Mon, Nov 7, 2011, at 12:20 PM
  • wiki is useful but not the most accurate source of information.

    -- Posted by Robert* on Mon, Nov 7, 2011, at 12:58 PM
  • Calling it Louis or something else would have seemed sacrilegious, no? Bottomline, he was infamous for his life and works, not his canonization.

    -- Posted by Theorist on Mon, Nov 7, 2011, at 12:23 PM

    My guess would be he was canonized because of his life works. Seems like a chicken or the egg type argument. This battle has been raging longer than the Great Tater War.

    Maybe Theorist and Shap should just hug this out:)

    -- Posted by Joe Dirte on Mon, Nov 7, 2011, at 1:24 PM
  • Rick,

    Yes, I've been to the Old Cathedral. It is something to see. As you'll note from my link, it's not the original church there, since it replaces the log cabin churches that were built there shortly after St. Louis was established.

    "Calling it Louis or something else would have seemed sacrilegious, no?"

    Only if you acknowledge that it is named after a Saint. If it's named simply after the man, 'sacrilege' has no meaning, yes?

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Mon, Nov 7, 2011, at 1:55 PM
  • "St.Louis" , so what's in a name ?

    -- Posted by Rick * * on Mon, Nov 7, 2011, at 1:36 PM

    Was St. Francois county MO named after the Saint or the river which flows through it?

    Was Jackson, MO named after Andrews time spent as a general or as president?

    Was Washington named after the general, the president or the boy who chopped down the cherry tree?

    Good thing my family homeplace is in Twelvemile, MO. No debate over where the name came from or how far from town it was:)

    -- Posted by Joe Dirte on Mon, Nov 7, 2011, at 2:46 PM
  • "Have you ever visited the Old Cathedral in St.louis by the riverfront ?"

    Rick,

    Sometime when you have time to kill, tour the New Cathedral on Lindell. If you like that type of thing, I think you would appreciate. I have a tendancey to let things get scrampled in my memory... but if I am not mistaken, it has the largest collection of 'Mosaics' in the world. Well worth seeing if you like works of art.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Nov 7, 2011, at 2:47 PM
  • Good thing my family homeplace is in Twelvemile, MO. No debate over where the name came from or how far from town it was:)

    -- Posted by Joe Dirte on Mon, Nov 7, 2011, at 2:46 PM

    Joe, you could have been from Peculiar or Climax Springs. That would have been a talking point.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Nov 7, 2011, at 2:52 PM
  • Wheels,

    I have spent some time hunting near Monkeys Eyebrow, KY as well as Possum Trot, KY.

    I drove by a exit on I-75 in Tennessee several times with a sign labeled "Stinking Creek Rd. I finally searched the net to find out where the name came from.

    Turns out the creek was once known as Sugar creek until the winter of 1779, when harsh whether froze everything solid for months. This weather killed much of the wildlife in the area. The spring thaw presented a unusual amount of rotting animal carcasses so residents changed the name to Stinking creek.

    -- Posted by Joe Dirte on Mon, Nov 7, 2011, at 3:09 PM
  • I travel through Knob Lick nearly every day. I forgot about Cooter, good bunny huntin' there too.

    -- Posted by Joe Dirte on Mon, Nov 7, 2011, at 3:27 PM
  • Joe, what are you going through for? Of course, there's Possum Hollow Rd that runs between Knob Lick and Farmington.

    -- Posted by Knoblickian on Mon, Nov 7, 2011, at 3:34 PM
  • I run down the highway from Farmington and cut through DD to get to T highway. I know of or are friends with several folks around Knob Lick.

    -- Posted by Joe Dirte on Mon, Nov 7, 2011, at 3:38 PM
  • Rick-I know that Bailey's had some at one time, but doubt that they do now. He can't carry too much inventory anymore.

    Joe-that's a bad way to go in the winter, but then again, T isn't much better.

    -- Posted by Knoblickian on Mon, Nov 7, 2011, at 3:52 PM
  • Rick,

    Those kinds of Ladies seem to be drawn to areas like that... tourists or who knows??

    We were in Rome many years ago and a street that I remember the 'Via Venito' not far from St. Peters was loaded with them. This street was only a block or so from the Hotel Jolly where we were staying. (May have that name wrong.) One evening my wife and I along with four other couples were walking along the street just to observe. It started raining and we ducked into a streetside cafe to get out of the rain. We ordered a bottle of wine and a guy (Pimp) was sitting across the restaurant with about 4 or 5 of the girls who had come in out of the rain as well. After we ordered he calls our waitress over and spoke to her. When she brought the wine, she would take no pay and explained it was compliments of the guy she spoke to. He smiled broadly and came over and passed out a card to all of the guys, suggesting we come back later.

    Needless to say, not one of the guys even discussed getting out of sight of his wife the rest of the evening.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Nov 7, 2011, at 4:10 PM
  • He is dancing...

    wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_St_Louis_named_after

    Shap, check out this answer....

    I agree on who the city is named after, and the fact that he was canonized by the Catholic Church. I also think the city was named after him because of his life, not the fact that the Catholic Church thought he was worthy of sainthood.

    -- Posted by Theorist on Mon, Nov 7, 2011, at 12:06 PM

    Yesterday, Theorist decides to put the Coup de Grace on Shapley in their ongoing battle on who St Louis was named after, I have watched this with amusement, waiting for Theorist to bury herself with an unreliable source such as Wiki.

    Due to my hobby of genealogy I have read quite a bit of the history of St. Louis and the Catholic connection. I use a set of books titled History of the Archdiocese of St. Louis, written by Rev John Rothensteiner published in 1928, for some of this work.

    The Author's acknowledgements on pages VIII & IX ends the Preface of the book and the last paragraph is as follows:

    In conclusion the Author would bless the memory of a former Chancellor, the Very Rev. Henry Van der Sanden, for the great solitude with witch he helped to gather, and prepserve from waste so many of the precious memorials of our historic past.

    My interest.... the Very Rev. Henry Van der Sanden was my Great Great Grand Uncle. Therefore my interest and studies of this history which goes much farther than just a church history.

    To the point...

    The Chapter - Founding of St. Louis begins on page 99. On Page 100 the following is written.... "He (Laclede) laid down the lines for the streets of the new village, fixed the place of his own house, assigned one block for religious purposes and designated another as the Place des Armes and then, to crown his work, named the new foundation, St. Louis, in honor of St. Louis the IX, the patron Saint of the King of France."

    Theorist I will leave it up to you to determine if you are a big enough person to admit to Shapley that you are incorrect.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Nov 8, 2011, at 10:55 AM
  • Wheels, The founder may have named the place for someone he admired. That doesn't mean the city of St. Louis is a Catholic city or was it meant to be. And as pointed out previously the man wasn't cannonized until after he died.

    Just saying.. :) :)

    -- Posted by Old John on Tue, Nov 8, 2011, at 11:18 AM
  • Old John,

    Don't quite know how to answer that. Kind of hard to tell what those old timers may have thought it might become at some future date.

    Doubt it if they invisioned Wiki then.... or they may have just dispensed with writing a history altogether.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Nov 8, 2011, at 11:31 AM
  • Wheels, Don't mind me, I was just thinking Theorist might be too busy to reply and thought I would fill in for her. She can thank me later.

    -- Posted by Old John on Tue, Nov 8, 2011, at 11:34 AM
  • Thank you Old John, I know you did it with "Pure Intentions".

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Nov 8, 2011, at 11:49 AM
  • "we already know Laclede named the city after Louis, The King of France, then known as Saint Louis."

    You are wrong Theorist. The statement was very clear... read it again. Maybe you will get it this time. It is very clear what and why it was named as it was. If you want to twist sentences and parse words in the tradition of Bill Clinton and his definitiion of "is", go ahead and remain uneducated on the subject.

    "in honor of St. Louis the IX, the PATRON SAINT of the King of France." (Caps are mine)

    If I twisted the sentence, the way you try to, it would read... in honor of the King of France's Patron Saint, Louis the IX.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Nov 8, 2011, at 12:17 PM
  • Theorist wrote:

    "Shapley believes it was because he is a "Saint". I disagree...I am not sure what your post is purporting Wheels...we already know Laclede named the city after Louis, The King of France, then known as Saint Louis."

    Louis the XV was King of France at the time of the founding of the city of St. Louis. It was not named for the 'King of France', since Louis XV was not known as "Saint Louis" then or now. The city was named after the long-dead and long-since canonized King Louis IX, who was commonly known as Saint Louis, the Patron Saint of France. He was cannonized in 1297, nearly five hundred years before the city was founded.

    The use of the title "Saint" in lieu of the title "King" indicates purely and simply that the city was named after the Saint.

    Of course, he was honoured for his life, not his canonization. He was canonized because of that life. But he most certainly was not being honoured for being King, he having not held that positin for some five-hundred years by the time the city was founded.

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Tue, Nov 8, 2011, at 12:25 PM
  • Also Theorist my post is not "Purporting" anything. It is taken word for word from a respected history, written by one man after many years of combined study by a group of very well educated people.

    I have the set of books. and I gave you the proper references as to Book and Page. Look it up yourself if you do not believe me. I suspect the Cape Girardeau Library has a set of the books for reference purposes, most do.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Nov 8, 2011, at 12:26 PM
  • As I understand it, Theorist is arguing that St. Louis is not named after a Saint...

    Isn't that a bit absurd?

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Tue, Nov 8, 2011, at 12:28 PM
  • SH, to use your words... Methinks Theorist would argue with a fence post.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Nov 8, 2011, at 12:30 PM
  • Well, she certainly likes to argue with my posts... ;)

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Tue, Nov 8, 2011, at 12:42 PM
  • SH,

    You owe me one for setting that up for you. ☺ ☺ ☺ ☺

    Theorist seems to have melted again. Probably under the guise of, unlike others... she works. At least part of which is indoctrinating young minds.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Nov 8, 2011, at 12:51 PM
  • "At least part of which is indoctrinating young minds."

    That's a frightening thought.

    I'm often reminded of this old rime from MAD magazine:

    Doctor Spock, Doctor Spock

    leads a peace march down the block.

    All around, every where you look

    are the kids he messed up with his book!

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Tue, Nov 8, 2011, at 12:56 PM
  • My wife and I had a conversation early on regards Doctor Spock.... I told her that I did not want to hear his name in our house again. I rememeber the conversation vividly.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Nov 8, 2011, at 1:01 PM
  • And I shouldn't say such things about Theorist. She may be a very effective teacher, and she may not even believe the stuff she posts here on the board...

    My most humble apologies...

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Tue, Nov 8, 2011, at 2:23 PM
  • SH,

    Careful... that could wind up maaking you both wrong. ;-)

    Theorist,

    Tap, tap, tap, tap.... that is the sound of my toe tapping the floor awaiting your response.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Nov 8, 2011, at 3:22 PM
  • Wait a minute... Why was he known as St. Louis? It was not because of his life, it was because of his canonization! Who canonized him? Not the French. It was the Catholic Church, was it not?

    You are dancing hard to avoid admitting something that is pretty well known to the rest of the World. There are lots of people who lived honourable lives, but we don't call them 'Saint' unless the Catholic Church recognizes them as such.

    I suppose you think St. Paul, Minnesota was merely named after some Roman guy that wrote nice letters... (Hint: The city was renamed after the Church on the hill above it, having originally been named 'Pig's Eye'.)

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Tue, Nov 8, 2011, at 3:29 PM
  • Why there she is....

    Keep it up Theorist you only make yourself look sillier than your statements already are. There was a day when people of all faiths were a lot more concscious of their religion than they currently are. It was common practice to name things and places after Saints or other things associated with religion.

    You are so stubborn you will not even take the word of historians, that were in the case of some of the facts reported in this history, quoting from other historical sources written close to 200 years ago.

    Sorry but you are wrong and you and wiki are far from the last word on the subject.

    Why do you feel the necessity of personal attacks when you are loosing? Is that the only way you know how to discuss things?

    My personal life and my wife have nothing to do with you. We have been happily married for over 54 years now... think you will ever be able to match that?

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Nov 8, 2011, at 3:34 PM
  • Come back Old John... you answering for Theorist makes more sense than her own answers do.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Nov 8, 2011, at 3:39 PM
  • Columbus and many explorers named islands and cities after the kings and queens that sponsored their expeditions.

    The gateway city was named for King Louis XV.

    Remember, they had no phones or telegraphs in those days so the decree of the new city's name was sent back upon a sea going vessel. [For Wheels that means on the water where things can get wet, got it?]

    When King Louis XV got the news by wet, smeared decree he assumed, being the modest king he was, that the honor was to Saint Louis aka the King Louis IV. Thus the city is mistakenly known as St. Louis.

    Just saying..

    -- Posted by Old John on Tue, Nov 8, 2011, at 10:57 PM
  • I feel better now!

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Nov 8, 2011, at 10:59 PM
  • Old John,

    What did they name Peculiar after?

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Nov 8, 2011, at 11:01 PM
  • Wheels, The folks that settled there were'nt from Cininnatti and "Cleaveland" was already taken just up the road. Had to call it something.:)

    -- Posted by Old John on Tue, Nov 8, 2011, at 11:13 PM
  • Good Grief, Cincinnati you say... my folks came by way of Cincinnati. They named their new town Vinemount. Wonder if Theorist folks came from Cincinnati and settled in Pecular?. That would explain some of it.

    Old John, I would tell you why they renamed Vinemount and why they chose the current name, but I am afraid it would just start another argument.

    The Dutch named one of their little settlements New Amsterdam, and some well meaning idiot changed the name to New York. At least that is what they taught me in school. I think it was renamed after the York Air Conditioning Company. ;-) Wonder if Teorist will put up an argument about that.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Nov 8, 2011, at 11:29 PM
  • Well, it appears Theorist is all finished, she has no proof of what she says... just she thinks.

    I brought Book and Page proof to the discussion between her and Shapley on the reason for the naming of St. Louis. Book says.... "and then, to crown his work, named the new foundation, St. Louis, in honor of St. Louis the IX, the patron Saint of the King of France."

    So I am declaring Shapley the winner.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Wed, Nov 9, 2011, at 8:52 AM
  • Was Dumpling Tenn. settled by the Dutch? It's not too far from Cornbread near Knoxville.

    -- Posted by Old John on Wed, Nov 9, 2011, at 10:12 AM
  • Old John,

    I don't know but it sounds like it could have been. I have a very good Baptist friend who said it was those Dutch and German Catholics in our area that taught his Mother how to make Chicken and Dumplings. And he always raises hell if somebody doesn't bring chicken and dumplings to a reunion or a get together.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Wed, Nov 9, 2011, at 10:17 AM
  • Wheels, I think my family was run out of Dutchtown way back for eating all the chicken and dumplings at a church social.

    They tried living at Cooks Station a ways south of Bland. Some ended up in Cherryville and I have distant relatives way out in Butterfield. :)

    -- Posted by Old John on Wed, Nov 9, 2011, at 10:39 AM
  • Old John,

    Sorry your family was banned from Dutchtown.

    Mine didn't move a lot but I knew a girl who grew up in Cherryville. She moved to Neck City and due to some heavy necking of her own with a young sport, she soon married and moved to Conception. After the seventh child, they were force to move to Liberal where they went on Food Stamps and became an Obama supporter.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Wed, Nov 9, 2011, at 5:06 PM
  • Theorist,

    Why are you so obstinate? There is no question about which St. Louis it was named after. After very careful research a respected History of the St. Louis Archdiocese and St. Louis itself spells it out very clearly. The following, which I posted yesterday, is a direct quote from this work. Here it is again. Maybe you misunderstood. Slow down, read it word by word and you will find that it was St Louis the IX, the patron Saint of the King of France. Or more clearly, the patron Saint of the current King of France. There is no question about it... the author spoke with excellent clarity.

    The Chapter - Founding of St. Louis begins on page 99. On Page 100 the following is written.... "He (Laclede) laid down the lines for the streets of the new village, fixed the place of his own house, assigned one block for religious purposes and designated another as the Place des Armes and then, to crown his work, named the new foundation, St. Louis, in honor of St. Louis the IX, the patron Saint of the King of France."

    In reality Theorist he was honoring both the Saint by naming the city after him, and honoring the King at the same time, by doing do, as St Louis the IX was the Patron Saint of the current King of France

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Wed, Nov 9, 2011, at 7:15 PM
  • We have been happily married for over 54 years now... think you will ever be able to match that?

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Nov 8, 2011, at 3:34 PM

    Nope! But the happily may sometimes be debatable.

    -- Posted by Theorist on Wed, Nov 9, 2011, at 6:55 PM

    The happily may sometime be debatable... Now what would that mean do you suppose? Do you think I am going to sit here and tell you we have never had a disagreement? Come on now Theorist, wouldn't that be a dull life? Absolutely we have had our differences of opinions, but we have always been able to come to an agreement and go on. We take our values from a day when the first disagreement didn't mean a trial seperation and a divorce.

    We both have been told we do not look our age, so I don't think we have been too detrimental to one another.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Wed, Nov 9, 2011, at 7:28 PM
  • It kind of bugs me somehow that whether folks live in Webster Groves, Florissant, Overland, St Charles or any other town in the greater St Louis area, they seem to be thought of as living in St Louis.

    -- Posted by Old John on Wed, Nov 9, 2011, at 9:51 PM
  • Old John,

    I live in St. Charles. If I talk to anybody in Michigan, or Alabama, or Florida or similar locations and the conversation is just going to be a few words, I will tell them I live in St. Louis or the St. Louis area. Simply because it is something they can identify with. If the conversation goes for any length of time I will clarify where I live and the difference.

    Not necessarily St. Louis City dwellers, but the more uppity St. Louis County dwellers look down their nose at people from St. Charles because they know we all have gun racks in our back windows. Just to p*** them off, I would go get a gun rack and mount it in my car if I could find one.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Wed, Nov 9, 2011, at 10:02 PM
  • Wheels, You could show off your gun rack and your hub caps.

    -- Posted by Old John on Wed, Nov 9, 2011, at 10:09 PM
  • Old John,

    I would probably get in trouble. About a year ago, I had a pesky ground hog digging holes here, there and everywhere. I stalked the hateful critter with my trusty Stevens Visible Loader pump that I gave my cousin $5 for when I was in grade school. Not sure where I got the $5. Anyway I like to shoot that gun and when I was through just threw it into the trunk. A couple of weeks later after I forgot about it, I took my car to the dealer in St. Louis County for service. The mechanic needed to get in the trunk to work on something and I guess he didn't see many Stevens Visible Loaders. He got all excited and called the service writer, who was dispatched to bring me in from the waiting area, dead or alive to her office. After I finally figured out what was going on, she said don't worry about it, I'm from Wisconsin and my dad told me he used to set his in the corner of the school so he could rabbit hunt on the way home.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Wed, Nov 9, 2011, at 10:19 PM
  • Getting way off subject, someone blessed me with a cat that holed up in the barn with kittens. I figured it might me a good thing to have cats around the barn and left them alone. But as you can imagine, I found myself tossing a left over bisquit there way. The kittens being pretty well grown and all gone away or demised but one, and I find myself setting out left overs at the back door. Tonight the biggest, prettiest skunk I've ever met took charge of the scraps and wouldn't be pesrsuaded by any means to leave. I even prodded the skunk up close and personal with a stick with no avail.

    Old trusty Winchester 74 came to mind but after second thought I decided to just admire the shunk's beauty through the back door.

    Yep, that skunk reminded me of some of my democrat friends, love and admire 'em, just don't like what they spew! :)

    -- Posted by Old John on Wed, Nov 9, 2011, at 10:38 PM
  • Old John,

    You prodded that skunk with a stick??? They don't make a long enough stick for me to do that.

    I'll stick to prodding liberals.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Wed, Nov 9, 2011, at 11:18 PM
  • Shap, the city was not named St. Louis because he was declared a Saint by the Catholic Church, and I think you know it. If it were, you would have to figure out which St. Louis it was named after, I mean there is more than one Saint named Louis...

    Just sayin'...

    -- Posted by Theorist on Wed, Nov 9, 2011, at 6:55 Pm

    Theorist, seems to be multiple King Louis' as well, take your pick

    Kings of France

    Louis the Pious, Emperor and King of the Franks from 814 to his death

    Louis the Stammerer, the eldest son of Charles the Bald and Ermentrude of Orléans

    Louis III of France, king of Western Francia

    Louis IV of France, king of France from 936 to 954

    Louis V of France, son of the Frankish King Lothair and his wife Emma

    Louis VI of France, King of France from 1108 to 1137

    Louis VII of France, King of France from 1137 to 1180

    Louis VIII of France, King of France from 1223 to 1226

    Louis IX of France, King of France from 1226 to 1270

    Louis X of France, King of France from 1314 to 1316

    Louis XI of France, King of France from 1461 to 1483

    Louis XII of France, King of France from 1498 to 1515

    Louis XIII of France, King of France and Navarre from 1610 to 1643

    Louis XIV of France, King of France and Navarre from 1643 to 1715

    Louis XV of France, King of France and Navarre from 1715 to 1774

    Louis XVI of France, King of France and Navarre from 1774 until 1791

    Louis XVII of France, the son of King Louis XVI of France and Marie Antoinette

    Louis XVIII of France, King of France and Navarre from 1815 to 1824

    Louis XIX of France, King of France and Navarre for twenty minutes in 1830 before his abdication

    Kings of Hungary

    Louis the Great, (Louis I of Hungary) Apostolic King of Hungary, Dalmatia, Croatia, Rama, Serbia, Galicia, Lodomeria, Jerusalem and Sicily from 1342, King of Poland from 1370

    Louis II of Hungary and Bohemia, King of Bohemia and Hungary from 1516 to 1526

    King of Portugal

    Louis I of Portugal (1838--1889), succeeded to his older brother Peter V in 1861

    King of Spain

    Louis I of Spain, the eldest son of Philip V of Spain by his first Queen consort Maria Louisa of Savoy

    Dukes and Kings of Bavaria

    Louis I, Duke of Bavaria

    Louis II, Duke of Bavaria

    Louis III, Duke of Bavaria

    Louis IV, Holy Roman Emperor, also Duke of Bavaria

    Louis V, Duke of Bavaria, also Markgrave of Brandenburg as Louis I

    Louis VI, Duke of Bavaria, also Markgrave of Brandenburg as Louis II

    Louis VII, Duke of Bavaria

    Louis VIII, Duke of Bavaria

    Louis IX, Duke of Bavaria

    Louis X, Duke of Bavaria

    Just sayin'...

    -- Posted by Joe Dirte on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 9:03 AM
  • "Shap, the city was not named St. Louis because he was declared a Saint by the Catholic Church, and I think you know it. If it were, you would have to figure out which St. Louis it was named after, I mean there is more than one Saint named Louis..."

    Now, you're grasping at straws rather than admit you are wrong.

    It's true there are multiple saints named Louis. Of course, you could discount any that were canonized after the founding of the city. You can also discount the Luis's and the Louise's, since the spelling is pretty well defined. You can probably discount any non-French saints named Louis, as well as those with hyphenated names. That begins to narrow it down. Methinks there may be two - Saint Louis IX and Saint Louis, Bishop of Toulouse.

    Your own link notes that the city was named after the Saint that was King of France. Methinks there's only one Saint Louis that was ever the King of France, and that would be Saint Louis IX.

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 9:38 AM
  • Joe,

    Now I have a headache. I don't know which direction to bow to as I reach the city limits, so that i might show proper respect.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 9:39 AM
  • Methinks Theorist is just having fun with it now. I know I am. As far as I'm concerned, the issue is settled, but if Theorist wants to continue tenderizing this poor, dead horse, I'll cook it when she's done.

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 10:04 AM
  • Caddy,

    Many of us that love history do care. It is those who do not who are largely responsible for turning the once great city into what it is today.

    There is more to life than where the next check comes from.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 10:24 AM
  • SH

    I don't want any of the cooked horse, tenderized or not.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 10:28 AM
  • -- Posted by cadillacman on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 10:10 AM

    Yes, it matters. Our History is very important.

    In the context in which this discussion began, we were debating why communities that start as religious centers, as evidenced by their names, are being forced to abandon all references to religion becuase they are incorporated. Cities such as St. Louis deserve the right to hang onto their historical foundations.

    Cities, towns, and villages with names such as Mt. Zion, St. James, and Los Angeles should not lose sight of their origins in the name of 'political correctness'.

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 10:34 AM
  • There are probably as many cities and places named for the people here first as there are for the people that came later.

    I never understood why so many object to being honored by having a sports team named for them.

    I think is is still debated as to how Zalma MO. was named. Some say zalma is a rough translation of a native word meaning end of the line, as the railroad ended there.

    Others say a railroad official had five daughters and the first letter of each of their names made up the word.

    And then another question: Was Jackson Mo. named for Andrew Jackson? I have my doubts.

    -- Posted by Old John on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 11:52 AM
  • I'll throw a really big town or two into the mix. Anybody know who they named Glennon and Glennonville after?

    Old John,

    Somewhere in the dark hole of a mind that I have left, I think I remember something on the naming of Zalma, cannot recall it right now though.

    I was afeered I kept you up too late last night. You just getting up? ☺ ☺ ☺ ☺

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 11:58 AM
  • According to St. Anthony's Catholic Church, the town of Glennon was named after Cardinal John Joseph Glennon, the same after whom Cardinal Glennon Children's Hospital is named.

    It was Archbishop Glennon that permitted the foundation of the Parish, on November 29, 1905.

    Glennonville is also named for then-Bishop John Joseph Glennon, who also authorized the establishment of St. Theresa's Parish.

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 12:11 PM
  • -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 12:12 PM
  • SH

    You win the Kewpie Doll for that one. I am waiting for Theorist's rebuttal though before I send it to you. Haven't seen hide nor hair of her on here today yet. Sorry I forgot... she works!

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 12:18 PM
  • Shapley,

    Are you sure the town was named Glennon because of the time he spent with the church? I could be they named it after him because of something he did earlier in his life, like winning a ping pong tournament or something:)

    -- Posted by Joe Dirte on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 12:31 PM
  • Wheels, Was up early so the Dr could leave me in a small cold room for a long time awaiting his three minute visit.

    In 1898 Thomas Swindell founded a town. Swindell was not a name Louis Houck thought approriate for a town associated with his railroad so it became Swinton.

    Bell City is said to be named for the many cows wearing bells although it was nicknamed steal-easy because items left unlocked or unguarded had a tendency to disappear over night. :)

    -- Posted by Old John on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 12:37 PM
  • Nope Joe,

    You are going to have to do better than that. There is not a level enough spot in Glennon for a Ping Pong Tournament.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 12:39 PM
  • Old John,

    My recollection of one of those small cold rooms was when the Doctor came in he told me about the time Rock Hudson went to Mexico for a cure for AIDS. I cannot tell it on here though, or I have to go through a resurection process which I am as of yet, not familiar with.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 12:43 PM
  • Wheels,

    I will just leave it to Theorist. I was never any good at arguing the wrong side of a debate:)

    -- Posted by Joe Dirte on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 12:43 PM
  • But never the right side, Joe!

    -- Posted by Robert* on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 1:41 PM
  • Joe Dirte,

    You may have a point. He was called 'Cardinal Glennon' because of his love for St. Louis baseball. He wore brown in his early days, but changed to red in honour of the renaming of the team.

    It was his love for the game that earned him so much respect from Missourians. The hostpital, which was to be named St. Louis Cardinals Children's Hospital was changed to Cardinals and Glennon Children's Hospital. However, due to a mixup by the sign painters, it was shortened to simply Cardinal Glennon Children's Hospital.

    He reportedly was also a noted ornithologist, but that is another tall story...

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 1:54 PM
  • Good Grief SH, couldn't you just say he was a bird watcher instead of making us go to the dikshunary.

    They did play baseball in Glennon, but they had to go out of town to find a spot that was semi-level to do it... not suitable for a Ping Pong tournament even there. However due to their playing with neighboring towns and everybody being related for the most part, there was sometimes so many arguments over balls and strikes, and he was out, he was not, they finally quit that venture.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 2:12 PM
  • Wheels,

    The Glennonites joined up with their neighbors from String Ridge in order to whup that bunch from Leopold.

    -- Posted by Robert* on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 2:16 PM
  • But never the right side, Joe!

    -- Posted by stnmsn8 on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 1:41 PM

    I like that one. See Wheels for your prize.

    Shap,

    You your saying the town could have been named Brownsville if not for the teams name change. Very interesting.

    Not sure what they would have done back in the day the team was known as the St. Louis Perfectos.

    I do wonder about the hospital naming situation. Was it truly just a mix up with the sign or was there actually a battle over how people would perceive the term "St. Louis" in the name. As we all know the Civil War started over who St. Louis was named for. It has been a very controversial subject for decades.

    -- Posted by Joe Dirte on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 2:22 PM
  • "As we all know the Civil War started over who St. Louis was named for."

    I thought is was the French and Indian War. The French argued that it was named 'Saint Louis' after their one-time King and all-time Saint, and the Indians argued that it was named Santloowee, an Indian word for "Land of Watered-Down German Beer and Baseball".

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 2:33 PM
  • Oh, just in case anyone missed it, today is the Feast of St. Frivolous. Therefore, posts made today need neither be serious nor on topic...

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 2:41 PM
  • St. Frivolous' Day is a movable feast. It can land unexpectedly on the calendar at any time...

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 2:48 PM
  • What dish is most commonly associated with a St. Frivolous Day feast? Could it be humble pie?

    -- Posted by Robert* on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 2:57 PM
  • stnmsn8 wrote:

    "What dish is most commonly associated with a St. Frivolous Day feast? Could it be humble pie?"

    Nuts, I think...

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 3:00 PM
  • Stnmsn8,

    Yeah, and while I don't remember who won what, because with a game delayed by so many disputed calls it was hard for my short attention span to keep up with the score.

    I do remember one game though where one of Glennon's players became confused during an argument and went and played with the opposition. I think that was the game where my uncle, a non basebaall player said, I think we better go home before the hair pulling starts.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 3:04 PM
  • Wasn't the New Orleans Saints named after all of this controversy? Sounds reasonable to me. I think they looked at all the Saints living on the banks of the Mississippi and Missouri rivers and thought it would only be appropriate to name their team as such, in light of the fact that all of the 'waste' from these Sainted People flows by New Orleans on a daily basis.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 3:09 PM
  • Holy Crap!

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 3:15 PM
  • Not to change the subject:

    Years ago when talking to my Dad about those String Ridge ball games a comment was made about how far some of the players had to walk to get to the games. From there the subject of conversation somehow turned to the distance he might have walked in a day while walking behind a horse-drawn plow.

    By coincidence, I came upon this web site today:

    http://www.farmcollector.com/looking-back/miles-per-acre.aspx

    -- Posted by Robert* on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 3:18 PM
  • I stand corrected Shapley, it was the French Indian War. The Civil War may have begun over the origin of the naming of Cape Girardeau. Many believed it was a two part name, Cape after the rock formation along the bank of the river, and Girardeau after Jean Baptiste de Girardot, an early French settler to the area.

    Others, mainly Dutchman, believed the name was because Jean Baptiste de Girardot was a limp wristed Frenchman who pranced up and down the riverbank wearing a long silk cape.

    -- Posted by Joe Dirte on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 3:24 PM
  • I seem to recall a similar dispute over the naming of New Madrid. There is no question that the Spanish settled there, and some say they named the town after old Madrid, Spain.

    But the later settlers were French, and they didn't like the Spanish. One day it all came to a head, and with the French kicking the Spaniards down the river. They posted a sign saying in English (for some unknown region)

    "On this day, we, the

    New Settlers of this Area got

    Mad at the Spanish and got

    rid of them, once and for all."

    The sign was broken, by an irate Spanish descendant, such that only three three-letter words remained....

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 3:35 PM
  • And that was supposed to say 'for some unknown reason', but I've got my spell checker turned off in honour of St. Frivolous Day...

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 3:39 PM
  • On, by the way, the Spanish originally called the town Saint Luis...

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 3:41 PM
  • A Spaniard being irrational, hard to believe:)

    -- Posted by Joe Dirte on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 3:50 PM
  • Stnmsn8

    Yeah, throwing something in off the wall there, don't you know this is serious stuff? ☺ ☺ ☺ ☺ Cannot imagine anyone on the theads getting off topic.

    One and only time I ever got to walk behind a plow, my Dad, my Uncle and I plowed an 18 acre field with three teams. Meaning I walked about 60 miles in the process. I could have sworn it was closer to 600.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 4:31 PM
  • The sign was broken, by an irate Spanish descendant, such that only three three-letter words remained....

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 3:35 PM

    SH,

    Are you saying that they were so poor that they couldn't afford the four letter words most appropriate for the occassion?

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 4:37 PM
  • Theorist must be back at work, she is absent from this important round table discussion. She won't answer why she works so much, I have asked her if it was "need" or "greed" and she just gives an Obama like answer.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 4:39 PM
  • "Are you saying that they were so poor that they couldn't afford the four letter words most appropriate for the occassion?"

    Not at all. The composition of the sign was such that only the words: New, Mad, & rid remained.

    Thus was the town named...

    -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 4:44 PM
  • "The Civil War may have begun over the origin of the naming of Cape Girardeau."

    Joe I think the Civil War was the one where the two brothers out in Leopold got into a disagreement over the spelling of the family name and never spoke again.

    Let me clairify that.... never spoke to one another again.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 4:45 PM
  • Wheels, Bis in die puppen may be appropriate in regards to understanding Theorist.

    -- Posted by Old John on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 4:55 PM
  • There were two brothers where I grew up that hadn't spoken directly to one another for what some said was twenty years.

    One was sitting at the bar of the local pub near the front door one day when the other came through the back door and sat on that end of the bar. With several in between them, they were unaware of the other.

    The bartender went to the one just seated and sat a Stag draft in front of him and said this is on the guy at the other end of the bar. He then took one to his brother saying the same.

    The way I heard it told, each later learned who had bought the drink and from then on whatever the feud was about was over.

    -- Posted by Old John on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 5:24 PM
  • Old John,

    Don't think their not getting back together had anything to do with not drinking, ☺ ☺

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 5:33 PM
  • Wheels, I always wondered if the feud was about who owed who a drink. :)

    Anyway I thought of that because at the Dr place today I saw the one still living. Actually I think we are distant cousins.

    -- Posted by Old John on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 6:47 PM
  • Old John,

    You have raised a new issue in the naming conundrum. I wonder where the Puppenplatz was in St. Louis. Or was there even a Pupenplatz designated for St. Louis. Or was it the Grober Stern in St. Louis the whole time. It's like trying to sort out an accounting problem.... before you find it, you will probably uncover another situation or two where somebody appears to be trying to prove the Peter Principle is alive and well.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 7:56 PM
  • The feuding brothers I was referring to were a full two generations back, pretty sure we are not going to run into them in the Docter's office or anywhere else.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 7:58 PM
  • Not sure about Puppenplatz. I seem to remember something about some sort of saying about Puppenplatz concerning a schnitzel menu so long it took until the cows came home just to read it.

    Was there a Saint involved there somewhere?

    -- Posted by Old John on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 8:26 PM
  • Was there a Saint involved there somewhere?

    -- Posted by Old John on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 8:26 PM

    I didn't see it if there was.... but a Schnitzel menu as long as you described surely must have some heavenly food on it.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 8:32 PM
  • Joe I think the Civil War was the one where the two brothers out in Leopold got into a disagreement over the spelling of the family name and never spoke again.

    Let me clairify that.... never spoke to one another again.

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 4:45 PM

    Wheels,

    I have a similar feud in my family. The story goes that my gg grandpa and his brother had a falling out and one of them changed the spelling of their last name. This divided the family into two groups, one of which used the letter A as the first vowel in the name and one using a E. They fought over who was using the original correct spelling.

    This "feud" went on for a few generations. The A's and E's were not on friendly terms. When my dad was a kid he asked my grandpa why we didn't like uncle billy and his family just because they spelled their name different. Grandpa said, "Son, it ain't got nothin to do with the way he spells his name. I just can't stand the dumb son of a b!$ch!"

    -- Posted by Joe Dirte on Mon, Nov 14, 2011, at 8:28 AM
  • I once had a neighbor named Muller. He said it was actually Miiller, but the two dots were confused with the umlaut thus just call it Muller. Some of his family spelled it Meuller.

    -- Posted by Old John on Mon, Nov 14, 2011, at 9:40 AM
  • Old John,

    One would think brothers would have better things to do, but it proves out.... they don't. ;-)

    -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Nov 14, 2011, at 8:38 PM

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