Ok...so what happened with the separation of Church and State? I knew Cape Central was allowing students to hold prayerfest in the mornings around the flag, but I didn't know this was sponsored by a teacher.
Additionally, Central Junior High is hosting a thing called POPS (Power of Prayer). Now...These are nice and all, but the problem is this.
On several occasions, this organizations are "ACTIVELY" recruiting other kids to join their efforts (and churchs). Not only that, Catholic children who attend CJHS and CHS are being told by THESE GROUPS that Catholics are NOT Christian.
First of all...Yes, my kids are Catholic. Second, if I wanted my kids to get a formal religious education, I would have enrolled them into a Parochial school system.
Religion, specifically "certain" endorsed religions DO NOT have any place in the Public School System. My question is, how well would Cape Girardeau School District accept it if a bunch of Catholic students began gathering around the flag every morning and praying the rosary at CHS?
This discussion came about after watching the KFVS story on local churches "stepping over the line" in their ways of recruiting young kids to their churches. Having the gall to DEGRADE the Catholic Religion, (one the oldest religions in existance and began from the foundational teachings of Christ) is blasphemous, considering most of these hoopla rolling in the isle churches have only been around for 7-10 years.
Personally, I have become disgusted with the hate-mongering of Catholics in Cape Girardeau. Again, I believe the new wacko newbie population has come in trying to alter our heritage. In Cape you WERE either Lutheran or Catholic.
Anyway...I think it's time Public School officials shut this practice down. OR Start a rosary prayer group every morning for the Catholic students.
It's interesting that you seem more concerned that a religion other than yours is holding prayer meetings. You say you're disgusted with the hate-mongering of your chosen religion but in sentence before that you showed your true colors by showing absolutely no respect for any other religion. Who's the hate-monger now? Organized religion has an amazing tendency to close the minds of their followers. You just reinforced that opinion in my mind. NO religion of any kind belongs in our public schools. If you want your children brain washed send them to a private religious school.
If they are doing it before school starts, which is when they did it when I was there, then there's not much that can be done. Teachers can't teach religion/pray in class.
Likewise, if Catholics were saying the rosary before school, not much could be done. I think you're "muddying the water". If you're a true Christian, then why are you upset? Is not the goal of the prayer groups to bring people to Christ? Is that now your goal in life, to make disciples of all nations?
I don't know exactly what was said to your kids, but that's not right either. All Christians should be allowed to participate in this prayer session in the morning. This is why I hate denominations. Find any denomination in the bible. You can't. You're either a Christian or you're not. You either believe in Christ or you don't.
Frankly, I have never read in the Bible where you should attend a Church of any denomination. Lets be realistic here fellow Christians. Our creator (GOD) did not put himself here on earth in flesh as Man to build a Church. Rather he did it so that we would understand. I have said this before and I will gladly say it again. " You can tear down all the Churches on this planet and look in every board, brick and corner you will not find God in any of them"! However, he does tell us to fellowship with other believers and to spread the good news. I applaud these kids with their prayer group around the flag. I also agree with Mr.Wiffle. There has always been a difference between praying in school and religion in public schools.
I have always thought that the "seperation of Church and State" has been misunderstood. I do not believe our for Fathers meant kids or anyone else could not pray on school or Government Property! Thats just plain ridiculous! I am a Christian but I am not a religious person. Religion (denominations) do nothing but divide people. This thread I believe, is a case in point.
The point is, the kids gathering around the flag in the Lord's name shouldn't be degregrating and judging other religions as being Christian or not.
Furthermore Wiffles, I've never had a problem with corporal punishment in the school system. Infact, you've heard me rant about that many times.
I'd rather see some paddlings be dispursed than degregrating a child's religious heritage.
Wolf, I brought his up for two reasons. To the see the responses (wasn't surprised there) and proves some theories I have had for a long time about religion and politics and Neo-Cons.
And two...to voice my opinion on the matter. Again...when these flagpole prayers start harassing other kids, the "virtues" of Christianity have been thrown completely out the window.
I noticed posters in the jr. high hallway had a small corner advertising a 7:00 p.m. sermon at Cape First. I think that's probably crossing the line. This opens the door for all churches to post flyers about their services.
Probably part of the POP program being held at CJHS (Power of Prayer) Also sponsored by a teacher at CJHS. Funny...all this whinging about Obama talking at schools, and no one complains about the subversive tactics being used in some of our public schools to promote "individual" teachers religious preferences.
Also thought I'd throw this out there so we can set the record straight!
Catholics ARE Christians. They are the first organized Church of Christianity formed by Peter, deciple of Christ.
Additionally, 30,000 protestant denominations branched of from Roman Catholicism after the Reformation in 1507.
Here's an interesting article.
"So, why then would anyone dispute the fact that Catholics are Christians? My first answer would be, honestly I don't know. But in seeing all the misinformation about Catholicism on the internet, I believe that is the root of it. The misinformation - not the internet. If someone is searching for information about Catholicism and happens upon an anti-Catholic site, or speaks to a misinformed individual, he or she could very well come away with a false understanding of Catholicism. This false understanding then might lead to someone believing that Catholics are not Christians."
Funny..."misinformation" keeps coming up. Something the Neo-Cons are fond of? Yeah...I totally went there!
Remember Nil, many folks group us Catholics together with the Pagans ya know.
A search of the Christian religious text reveals the following:
Matthew 6:6: But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
Egotistical_Bigot, perhaps your kids can explain to the flaggers how Christians are supposed to pray.
Wiffles, the law doesn't keep religion out of schools - for example, kids can pray nondisruptively on their own or in self-selected groups during non-instruction time. As noted in the "Joint Statement of Current Law on Religion in the Public Schools" at the ACLU website, 'Student participation in before- or after-school events, such as "see you at the pole," is permissible. School officials, acting in an official capacity, may neither discourage nor encourage participation in such an event.' http://www.aclu.org/religion/schools/16146leg19950412.html
However, the harassment described by Egotistical_Bigot sounds like it crosses the line, as discussed in the Joint Statement:
"Students have the right to speak to, and attempt to persuade, their peers about religious topics just as they do with regard to political topics. But school officials should intercede to stop student religious speech if it turns into religious harassment aimed at a student or a small group of students. While it is constitutionally permissible for a student to approach another and issue an invitation to attend church, repeated invitations in the face of a request to stop constitute harassment. Where this line is to be drawn in particular cases will depend on the age of the students and other circumstances."
Teachers and staff may not engage in proselytizing, or invite speakers for that purpose. That's one of the reasons creationism isn't allowed in science classes (another being that it has no scientific validity). Nor may teachers denigrate religion. Much is clear from current law, but there are still some gray areas to be decided by the courts.
May the Flying Spaghetti Monster forgive the flaggers.
someone is playing their perpetual victim card
That's right Al Bino, go on and use the standard NEO-CON tactic of blowing off relevant issues by catagorizing them as minority disgruntlement. Can't wait til 2012, you, and folks you will be completely annihilated from the face of the spectrum. It'll be like a form of political genocide.
"In Cape you WERE either Lutheran or Catholic." wrote Egotistical_Bigot.
Tell that to the good folks at Centenary United Methodist who probably would find it amusing.
Instead of whining and bickering, why don't you old poots just pack up and leave your beloved Cape? Geez....moaning about a bunch of kids praying at school!!!??? Who's setting the REAL Godly example???
Some mighty fine kids. Jesus bless them!
The separation of church and state is in the Constitution. This practice of trying to erase the line of separation has been going on for decades (it happened at my school and I graduated in 1986.) I objected to it then and I object to it now.
The separation of church and state is there to protect both the state and the religious organizations.
If your school is doing this, then complain to the school board.
Aside note: get off your high horse about new people moving to town.
-- Posted by voyager on Tue, Sep 22, 2009, at 12:18 AM
you just outted yourself, you must be a newbie. LOL
If there is one thing that would be worse to debate/argue about than politics, this one would be it!
Of course that's why I brought it up Wheels. Just trying to save some honor for us Catholics. Trying to stop the covert religious persecution of Catholics that's being instigated by the Neo-Con evangelicals.
Ego or whatever your past reincarnations were,
The argument is stupid.
Typical Neo-Con town newbie response.
Ego, Your comment is still stupid.
I am Catholic and I feel people put too much stock in what religion you are. Remember folks the important think is that you believe in GOD. I think it doesn't matter what the name of the church you belong too, just as long as you believe in God. I think that is part of our problem. That is not enough religion in our daily lifes. Think how religion play a part of your life as a child in your parents house.
Catholics: The Real Christians! Oh and Hail to the Queen!
"religion is politics"
I agree with that statement.
In my younger years I found myself in a small Southern town (pop. 5000). The folks were about evenly divided between Baptist, Methodist, and Church of Christ with a small sprinkling of Cumberland Presbyterian.
One evening at a social meeting, I was accosted by one of the boss cows who very primly asked me what church I belong to. I answered I was an Episcopalian.
A puzzled look settled across her face.
"Is that Christian," she demanded.
"Upon rare occasions," I replied and added, "with considerable difficulty and trouble."
I think it must have been 15 minutes before it registered with her.
Oh yes, Ego et. al., I know, we're JV Catholics etc etc etc. I've heard all the old tired well worn jokes and comments many times before. Don't bother.
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