"The left believes the Constitution means whatever they say it means."
I think you mean "The Right".
Awlaki did not receive the due process he was entitled to according to the Constitution.
Also, I believe in the sovereignty of nations. We have not declared war on the state of Yemen. We had no business assassinating anyone there. Since we obviously knew where Awlaki was, the proper thing to do was ask the Yemeni government to pick him up.
What would we do if the Mexican government decided to use a Hellfire missile fired from a drone to execute one of their druglords driving down a US highway in the state of Texas?
How does the constitution apply beyond our borders? The man declared war on the US. That should be justification for the actions.
Our society is based upon the rule of law. No matter how evil one of our citizens may appear to be, he cannot be deprived of life, liberty, or property except through due process. He should have been arrested and brought to this country to face trail. No one, not even the President, has the authority to deprive anyone of life or liberty except through due process of law; a trial by jury.
We have been told that this man has been executed by the CIA. Besides the fact that he was not convicted by a jury, there is no way now to prove beyond a doubt that he is the man who was killed. We have only the word of the CIA as proof. And we have already seen on these threads how quickly a conspiracy theory can get started.
Although I do not presently intend to vote for Ron Paul I have to give him credit for taking a stand according to his principles. The statement he made will cost him votes. He knew that when he made the statement.
The constitution was written by men who never invisioned a drone or such an undefined enemy so although the constitution still has purpose, it applies only to the purposes the teacher says.
Spaniard, So which is the single most dictatorial action you recall an American president ever taking? Is it this or Reagan selling guns to Iran and holding Americans in hostage until after the election? I suppose you mean in your lifetime; there was Lincoln you know.
"...when in actual service in time of War or PUBLIC DANGER; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb;..", It depends on "what the meaning of is is" talk. Was public danger placed there as a general exeption or just in the case of twice in jeopardy events?
Ron Paul is correct given changes to interpetation of the constitution since it was written. I don't agree with those changes as I think Johnny Lind should have been shot by a military firing squad. But that term "rule of law" does have meaning.
BC, I did not mean to infer the constitution was changed by amendment in regards to the process by which such crimes are procecuted. Am I wrong in thinking interpretation by the courts can have the same effect as changing the constitution by amendment? Seems to me the process has changed.
BC, I don't understand. Hopefully it will sink in after about 3hrs and 59min. :)
Barack Obama should be impeached over this!
-- Posted by Spaniard on Sat, Oct 1, 2011, at 9:34 PM
Good Grief Gertrude!!! I was only gone a couple of days and the whole world has 'falled' apart. Ike calling for the Messiah's impeachment? I must have gone off course someplace and arrived on the wrong planet.
He has been doing the trashing for how long now?
Spaniard may be right and as a consequence says impeach Obma. My God, what is the world coming to when I find myself in any agreement with Spaniard!
CNN) -- Three law enforcement officers patrolling a remote stretch of northern California woods shot dead a double-murder suspect whom authorities had been hunting for 36 days, a sheriff said.
Aaron Bassler was wearing black clothing and carrying a large backpack, a fanny-pack and assault rifle when three Sacramento sheriffs spotted him early Saturday, Mendocino County Sheriff Tom Allman said.
From about 40 yards away and at an elevation 25 feet higher, they fired about seven rounds into his upper torso.
Allman said Bassler didn't fire a shot, and there was no verbal exchange between the parties. The suspect raised his weapon -- which was loaded and not on safety -- from the ground toward law enforcement officers.
What I have pasted above is part of an article that's on CNN now. Looks to me like "Due Process" wasn't a concern for this American citizen. I don't think they had a copy of the constitution there either. The killing of Anwar and others was justified and should be commended. Mr. Brassler in California and Mr. Anwar in Yemen both had ample opportunity to surrender. They chose not to and paid the price. End of story.
Over the River,
Sounds like 'blue suicide' to me. It seems to be becoming more common lately. A person puts himself into a position in which he knows/expects that a policeman will react with deadly force.
Well, don't worry, some stupid congress person will attempt to bring impeachment charges against Obama. If you are a member of Al Queda, then you are a combatant enemy against the USA. Let's don't wait until they fire first. They know they are targets as we are to them. I say take them out when you can.
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
The text of the 5th amendment above says in time of war or public danger. A terrorist planner and a bomb builder for Al Queda in the same car. Yep...I think that's enough of a public danger. Pull the trigger. I notice the 5th amendment doesn't mention airplanes. Hey for some of you...this might be a loophole!
The person in California chose his fate as well. "Blue suicide" it could be. He was cornered and chose his fate as well.
Do you know what the definition of "a crying shame" is? A bus load of terrorists being blown up with two empty seats.
It is a shame that many of those conservatives who oppose big government's expansion in social programs are so willing to accept the same expansion of government concerning foreign affairs. If we as a nation expect our national sovereignty to be respected we should respect the sovereignty of other nations.
Our armed forces should be focused on protection of our borders and our national interests not on being the police force of the world.
I think we can satisfy your thirst for justice.
Let's try this traitor postumously (sp?). That way justice, as you see it, will be served. Bush said the constitution was only a GD piece of paper and on occassion he acted as such. Does the 'Patriot Act' give any indications of being unconstitutional? Some say so. What do you say?
After 9/11 most citizens were willing to trade a measure of their liberty for a promise of a measure of safety for themselves and their families. Mr. Bush has never been accused of being a true conservative. And he obviously was not a strict constitutionalist. The Patriot Act definitely crosses the boundaries of personal liberty.
I am not a constitutional expert, but would it make any difference if an American citizen renounced their citizenship, were natural born or naturalized?
Not being a constitutional expert, it would be my opinion that a person who renounced their citizenship would at the same time give up their rights as a citizen of the U.S.
Politicians believe in the constitution only when it suits their purposes. This includes conservatives, liberals, democrats, and republicans.
The assuault on the Second Amendment will commence upon obama's second term. Republicans will assist in this endeavor.
This is another case of Mr. Paul stating an unspeakable truth. Assassination is the proper term, but it's not the type of thing in which we like to admit that we, as Americans, engage.
That which happened before the Constitution was written and signed is not covered by the Constitution. Specifically which deaths caused by George Washington do you refer to?
They all think the constitution is an inconvenience. I think that was the intended purpose but the legal community has found a way around that..
Spaniard, I commend you for being correct on this topic of the illegal and slippery slope justification of assassination of American political dissidents no matter whether they reside in a mud hut in Yemen or a $550K house in Fruitland Missouri. This decision gives Obama or any future president the thumbs up or thumbs down decision on an American citizen's life much like a Roman emperor had in the Colosseum.
But I am especially disappointed in your reaction to this political assassination Theorist. De you really agree with political assassination? Theorist?
I have heard the phrase "war an terrorism" many times. Is there an official declaration of war on Alqueda?
What was the purpose of the msnbc report? It is old news.
The U.S. government and military was so inept and clueless,even after being attacked on 9/11 by "Muslim terrorists" that they still invited Anwar al-Lawaki to the Pentagon for dinner. They invited hem for dinner and now they rejoice in killing him! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsKwGRMqoGA
Problem , Reaction, Solution. I have said it many times on this forum. It is true every time throughout history. The government creates the problem, the people react, and the government steps in to correct the problem. Anwar al-Awlacki paid the price this time. Which one of you are going to be next for saying something Obama doesn't like? Theorist? Spank the Tank?
Is there some confusion about whether the other guy is dead or alive?
Obama, when he was running for president, said he hated the war in the middle east and blamed George bush for it. Obama said he would end the war. Yet Obama increased the Drone attacks which killed innocents. Obama O.K'd 5 times the drone attacks than Bush did. Where is your principle Theorist?
Obama has been in an illegal war with Libya for months even though he said it would be days. What happened to the news on Libya?
"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people,
it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government
-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests."
- Patrick Henry
They invited hem for dinner and now they rejoice in killing him! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsKwGRMqo...
-- Posted by Thought Criminal on Sun, Oct 2, 2011, at 6:43 PM
They should have fed him my wifes cooking and it would have been a done deal.
Spank. Please? You seem to be a well intentioned soul. Clinton and Bush work together Spank. All living previous presidents work together. They are all working for a goal. A One World Government. Our "leaders" will have a special privilege for survivability in underground safe bunkers in the future, Spank, You will not unless you are one of them Spank. Please quit being a tool Spank.
I will say when they are in Washington it becomes their cocoon. They are sheltered from the real world and that is dangerous.
Why did they let him leave the U.S. if he was so evil? Did he diss the food at the Pentagon after his invite?
The U.S. Government has a no fly list which has many innocent people on it. Why didn't they have this nasty boggy man on it and prevent him from going to Yemen? They feel you and your wife and children up at the airport, but they let this Enemy of the State go to Yemen Scott free http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsKwGRMqoGA free? Why is that?
"I wonder whose names are on the list of Americans to be assassinated?"
Anyone that is in the way.
Accordingly did he not commit his crimes of terror and war after leaving the United States? Logic is flawed here. To suggest insurgents against the United States cannot be targets for elimination is faulty. To suggest such would also suggest that no Confederate Soldiers should have been killed but rather all should have been arrested and tried for treason. Because the Union did not recognize the Confederate States as a seperate state from the Union all those in the Confederacy were still considered citizens of the United States...no matter how devided at the time.
Because this War on Terror is unique in that there are no definable borders does complicate the matter. Any of us who would chose to take up arms against our country and take refuge in a land protecting us from proseqution can surely expect to be a target for elimination.
It is interesting that you cry due process Theorist after a citizen has been murdered. You are so joined at the hip with Obama that your normal liberal tendencies are confounded when he throws out some fascist police state action like killing a political opponent in Yemen.
I normally have no quarrel with you Theorist and many times cheer you on when you are attacked by your detractors. But you are a phoney when it comes to political murder. You are a phoney liberal. You are a totalitarian just like your hero Obama in this matter. Case closed.
from Russia http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/8802732/PIC-AND-PUB-PLS-...
The secret memo
-- Posted by BCStoned on Sat, Oct 1, 2011, at 12:13 PM
Actually, you got that wrong.
Both are guilty of that.
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