Speak Out: Jefferson City lawmakers are trying to undo voters-approved law...

Replies (31)

• If big business is all that powerful, they can join up and fund a power plant with invester monies, that is if the government will let them.

  -- Posted by Old John on Fri, Mar 11, 2011, at 9:48 AM

• This issue needs to be studied very carefully and an examination of what might have been had we not passed that bill when we did. I believe this thread is running along the line of political good/bad again.

  I was around for the controversy and there was a lot of emotion involved when this bill was voted on, much as there was recently in the puppy mill thing.

  Union Electric wanted to build two nuculear reactors at the time but the passing of the bill made it financially impossible. So they need to build it now, which is going to cost a big tad more and meanwhile we could have been selling some power on the grid which just might have kept a lot of Missourian's bills a little lower.

  -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Mar 11, 2011, at 9:59 AM

• one4,

  I have not read the bill and do not know the details.

  What I remember from the last time this was an issue, the utility was allowed to use incomplete assets, such as completed work on a new plant in the calculations for setting the rates, return on investment, etc.

  The law stopped that and I believe we may have lost by it, as the 2nd plant was not built.

  What they are asking for or doing now sounds different from what I hear you saying. So I do not know if this is a workable solution or not.

  What concerns me is that the needed plants do not get built. Of course we could always let the government build the plants. I am sure that would be an exercise in efficiency and we would all benefit from lower costs. :(

  -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Mar 11, 2011, at 11:36 AM

• I remember that wheels. There was a commercial that showed a a-bomb going off at a plant and then said "do you want this to happen in Missouri?"

  -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Fri, Mar 11, 2011, at 11:41 AM

• one4,

  I suppose there is validity in what you are saying. If I remember correctly, the utility's argument many years ago was that with the increased costs of financing, the consumers would ultimately be paying more when those costs were added into the finished product..

  Seems like I was reading somewhere a while back that there are other states where they are indeed still doing it the way we did before the law was voted in by the citizens of Missouri.

  At any rate, I remember Union Electric, now Ameren, deciding to put the 2nd reactor on hold due to the increased costs that would not be easily recovered.

  There is little resemblence of the new Ameren to the old Union Electric, I can tell you from having worked with both during my business years.

  I just hope that all sides of the arguments are fairly placed on the table so that Missouri's electric rate payers ultimately enjoy the lowest electricity costs possible.

  -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Mar 11, 2011, at 1:20 PM

• -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Mar 11, 2011, at 9:59 AM

  Wheels,

  I was pretty young then, so maybe you can help clarify. I don't remeber the nululear plants, but wasn't there a couple of dam/hydro plants involved?

  -- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Fri, Mar 11, 2011, at 1:38 PM

• What concerns me is that the needed plants do not get built. Of course we could always let the government build the plants. I am sure that would be an exercise in efficiency and we would all benefit from lower costs. :(

  -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Mar 11, 2011, at 11:36 AM

  But wheels, you have to remember that dam projects fall under Army control, which does have a better track record that most of the federal government.

  -- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Fri, Mar 11, 2011, at 1:41 PM

• If the U.S. can finance off shore drilling in Brazil, why can't gov loan money to build power plants? Sell bonds or shares maybe?

  -- Posted by Old John on Fri, Mar 11, 2011, at 1:52 PM

• Lumber,

  I do not remember hydro being involved in this issue. Definitely the nuclear plants were. The fear of the unknown, at least to many Missourians, of this type of generating facility was hi-lighted by the utility's opposition, as pointed out earlier by Regrets.

  There has been talk of hydro over the years, the last of which I remember being some kind of submerged apparatus at certain points in the Mississippi. Seems like there was some talk of that going on just a few short years ago.

  I do not believe the utility is looking at hydro in Missouri as being a cost effective method of generation.

  Speaking of the efficiency of the Army Corp of Engineers, although they may be better than most of government, they still have their moments as well. Truman Dam was one of them. Fish Grinding was one of their unintended consequences a few years ago.

  I read several years ago that when the corps took over water management of Missouri's rivers that there were sensible setbacks put into place where no developement could take place other than farming the land. However over time outside influence and politicians caused that to be "rethunk" and as a consequence we as taxpayers got to help buy out and rebuild the structures placed in that area. Do not remember the full details of this.

  -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Mar 11, 2011, at 2:06 PM

• Travel,

  I don't remember those specifics, but I remember a whisle blower in St. Louis point out some fudging of numbers. I think it was the first legal battle witht he new law.

  It just seems that there was supposed to be a dam built outside Arnold on the meremac for flood control and a power plant. But the more I think about it, it might have been scrapped becasue of Times Beach, but it seemed like that was after.

  -- Posted by lumbrgfktr on Fri, Mar 11, 2011, at 3:32 PM

• If we can power navy vessels with nuclear, why can't we build smaller scale nuclear electric generators that wouldn't need as much cash outlay as the big plants?

  -- Posted by Old John on Fri, Mar 11, 2011, at 5:14 PM

• Lumber,

  I had forgotten about the Meramec Basin project. It was supposed to be a flood control project with recreational side benefits. Power generation was not a part of the project. The main dam was to be around Sullivan, MO. I think the Times Beach issue you remember was the Dioxin contamination problem.

  There was a lot of hate and discontent over the project, with a lot of the affected citizens objecting. Senators Danforth and Eagleton asked for a non binding referendum which was granted by then Gov Kit Bond showing a majority of the citizens in the 12 affected counties voting against the dam.

  Funding was removed for the project by Congress and signed by then President Jimmy Carter. Reagan signed the bill de-authorizing it in 1981.

  The following link pretty much spells out the history of the project.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meramec_River

  -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Mar 11, 2011, at 11:04 PM

• Someone educate me. What is the Rider FAC adjustment on the Ameren electric bill?

  -- Posted by howdydoody on Sat, Mar 12, 2011, at 8:47 AM

• Howdy, I think the psc allows a max price and that adjustment brings it to that price whether it be a minus or a plus. Most likely it's a plus.

  -- Posted by Old John on Sat, Mar 12, 2011, at 9:01 AM

• "AmerenUE Electric Customers Receive Credit for Lower Fuel Costs Fuel Adjustment Clause Lowers Customers' Electric Bills"

  -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sat, Mar 12, 2011, at 10:02 AM

• I meant to put:

  Of coarse now fuel is up.

  -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sat, Mar 12, 2011, at 10:18 AM

• When I read my coop bill it clearly states the rate charged per kwh.

  I'm not smart enough to figure out the rate from Ameren. I called them once and asked, they wouldn't give me a direct answer. They kept saying they were only covering their cost plus a charge for delivery.

  -- Posted by Old John on Sat, Mar 12, 2011, at 10:35 AM

• The bill that is amazing is the phone bill. I pay about $25 a month in taxes.

  -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sat, Mar 12, 2011, at 10:45 AM

• Old John,

  Just out of curiosity, how much does it cost you for a meter charge on Co-Op if you do not even turn on a light?

  Here in Gulf Shores on Baldwin County EMC my monthly charge is $34.93 if I do not use ANY power. They are a Co-Op.

  -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sat, Mar 12, 2011, at 11:11 AM

• Wheels, $.071 per kwh, $15 availability and $.31 tax. That was Nov '10. I think the rate has come up since then, just don't have one handy to look at.

  Total was $21.52 with a mercury vapor light and the gas furnace set at 50 degrees.

  We got a summary from Ameren recently. It is hard to understand why my electic usage is so high in the cold weather here in Cape Co, considering we have hot water heat [no blower]. We do use a couple of space heaters sparingly.

  -- Posted by Old John on Sat, Mar 12, 2011, at 12:18 PM

• I was a Jurist during the trial of the man who sprayed the used oil at Times Beach .

  -- Posted by Rick... on Sat, Mar 12, 2011, at 12:15 PM

  That would have been Mr. Russell Bliss I believe.

  -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sat, Mar 12, 2011, at 12:21 PM

• Old John,

  That $15.31 would be less than half what I am paying for just having it available when I am not here. Shut it off and you get a reconnection charge. Plenty of pain and no gain.

  -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sat, Mar 12, 2011, at 12:25 PM

• Rick,

  Somewhere in my memorabilia/junk, I have a Russell Bliss Oil Co advertisinig pen.

  You guys didn't hang him did you? He seemed to have dropped out of the headlines all of a sudden.

  -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sat, Mar 12, 2011, at 1:31 PM

• Sort of bothers me, knowing we live in an area related to the New Madrid Fault ... and seeing that Japan has evacuated people in the area of that nuclear plant there ...

  Aw heck, Regret ... all those phone bill charges aren't taxes, you know. Read what they're called. ~grinning~ I think 2009 was when I noticed that those various 'charges' had finally totaled more than the actual phone bill. Hard to believe, isn't it?

  Old J., are you saying you had a $21.52 electric bill? I can't recall when our Black River bill was less than $90!

  Times Beach ... Wasn't there information several years later saying that the contamination wasn't ... um ... bad enough to take the actions they did? Or am I imagining that?

  -- Posted by gurusmom on Sat, Mar 12, 2011, at 4:59 PM

• That $15.31 would be less than half what I am paying for just having it available when I am not here. Shut it off and you get a reconnection charge. Plenty of pain and no gain.

  -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sat, Mar 12, 2011, at 12:25 PM

  That is the way it is on our irrigation riggs.

  -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sat, Mar 12, 2011, at 5:30 PM

• Gurus, That is for a vacant house. Ameren still gouges us for the gas.

  I know someone with a 4000 sf all electic house that averages about $100 year round inc tax. Geothermal.

  Rick, Didn't they spend oodles and gobs of super fund money to clean up the dioxin in what was Times Beach?

  -- Posted by Old John on Sat, Mar 12, 2011, at 10:55 PM

• Bliss was hauling waste from the production of agent orange. There was something about him spraying horse barns and horses started dying and them the investigation started.

  Rick.

  Didn't he get an employee to cash checks and give him 80m or 90 percent back in cash? I was running line haul freight up there every weeknight and it was a big story.

  -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sat, Mar 12, 2011, at 11:48 PM

• Nothing better to so I looks bliss up and saw what you were talking about. That was a jumbled up mess. He was giving cash to one guy who was secretly married to the owner of an oil company. He was guilty no doubt about it.

  http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F2/735/294/211785/

  -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sun, Mar 13, 2011, at 12:14 AM

• I know someone with a 4000 sf all electic house that averages about $100 year round inc tax. Geothermal.

  -- Posted by Old John on Sat, Mar 12, 2011, at 10:55 PM

  Old John,

  Now that is just not fair. This guy has a cheaper electric bill than all of his neighbors, and he has an advantage over them.

  This goes against everything Obama is trying to do. We simply must share the wealth.

  Therefore in the future, this guy must impute himself a fair and proper charge and send the amount of the true bill to the utility and the balance must be sent in to the government for redistribution. It is his duty you know!!!

  -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Mar 13, 2011, at 8:09 AM

• Times Beach was not the only town he had a contract with .

  -- Posted by Rick... on Sun, Mar 13, 2011, at 8:51 AM

  He spread that stuff everywhere. If it was bad stuff he just diluted it with motor oil. The one guy cut a fat hog. He was getting paid $4000 a load and bliss took it off his hands for $125.

  -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sun, Mar 13, 2011, at 10:18 AM

• A neighbor that had big trucks kept the dust down on his gravel road with used motor oil from his trucks. The county grader would always lift his blade as not to disturb that area he had oiled.

  One day it was graded through and he quit oiling it.

  With all the Times Beach publicity, I think he decided not to take the chance of dealing with EPA someday.

  I remember when all the country bumpkins that moved to big city would change oil in their cars with one wheel up on the curb so they could let it go into the curb drain.

  -- Posted by Old John on Sun, Mar 13, 2011, at 11:30 AM