Posted by gurusmom on Fri, Mar 5, 2010, at 8:14 PM:
Only part of the novel; hope some have the patience to read it, and perhaps even do some more research into especially ACS, which was instituted by non-elected officials in our government employee. Was it voted on then, or just approved by a president?
The census as it is now, could logically be viewed as 'politicized.' The original intent was to actually count the population, for the purpose of assigning representative numbers to each state.
What we have now, on the long form--which we all know haa been eliminated, except ... it obviously hasn't been actually--are questions that are indeed politically motivated ... intended to disclose things that will aid the government in future endeavors to expand programs for certain groups of individuals ... Wiff has some of it figured out: " ... a way to figure out where the leches live so they can pump in more money to buy votes with."
According to Judge Napolitano, although the 'long form' is almost certainly unconstitutional, a citizen can and probably will be fined/imprisoned for not answering the questions. Yes, many of the questions are intrusive into our private lives. That doesn't bother some people?
It does bother me that money is being spent on printing and mailing letters telling us that the census is coming up, notices being printed and put into fortune cookies (good grief!), and census workers being hired/paid to go door-to-door to tell us that the census is coming up.
Sorry, FriendO, one was here just this week--knocking on the door of our house which has the house numbers, the street name almost in our front yard, and three vehicles in plain view: "... census takers don't go door-to-door anymore. They just mail the forms out. ... door-to-door people go out prior to the actual census to verify addresses. ... They only knock on the doors when a building must be verified that is vacant or occupied.". What an extraordinary waste of taxpayers' dollars!
Suggesting the census go back to its original intent is "dumb, stubborn, ignorant?" Perhaps there should be an award for people who willingly accept every single thing our government does or wants to do ... What could we call it? The Head in the Sand Award? Maybe The Blind Trust Award?
So sorry, but my small amount of research so far on ACS has disturbed me ... It's sad to keep discovering reasons not to trust our own American government.
5. How will the 2010 Census differ from previous censuses?
In 2010, every residence will receive a short form of just 10 questions. More detailed socioeconomic information previously collected through the decennial census will be asked annually of a small percentage of the population through the American Community Survey. To learn more about the American Community Survey, visit www.census.gov/acs. (Hmmm: Page moved or no longer available last night)
While all this sounds pretty daunting, there's a simple solution to this particular issue. We all know from Civics 101 that the federal government only has such lawful authority as is specifically granted to it under the Constitution. A quick reference to the 4th, 9th and 10th amendments should be all that's necessary to remind you that your right to privacy is still fully intact and nosy, snooping federal bureaucrats demanding access to the intimate details of your household and life are about as un-American and un-patriotic as it gets.
How many of our citizens rejoiced at the news of 'no long forms,' not realizing that "The Census Bureau intends the ACS to replace the "long form" questionnaire of the 10-year Census. Information provided is entered into a central data base. This data bank holds extremely sensitive details about countless residents in every area of the United States."
... the specific race of each individual, language spoken, education level, citizenship and ancestry. The physical, emotional and mental state of each resident is also to be supplied, including certain medical conditions.
... requires employment addresses, the time each resident leaves for work, and when he or she arrives home. If the resident doesn't work, the ACS asks if the person could have worked if offered a job, and other related questions. Self-employment, all income sources, and the total income earned over the previous year for each resident is also required.
... how many children each resident has given birth to, if any, or if any residents are currently pregnant. Military service and retirement questions are also covered in the ACS.
... inquiries are dedicated to the residence itself, including when it was built, how much land it occupies, how many rooms it has, number of bathrooms, type of plumbing, and market worth. The ACS also wants to know the cost of monthly utility bills, mortgage or rent, and the dates each resident moved in.
The Census Bureau maintains answers to all ACS questions are held in the strictest confidence ... [however] business owners can use the ACS data base to see whether their services or products would benefit a particular geographic area. For example, Wal-Mart might decide to put an outlet in your neighborhood based on information provided by the ACS data base.
The Census Bureau emphasizes that all questions must be answered. The ACS envelope arrives with a warning that a response is required by law. The form threatens a $100 fine for every question (heard there are 50) that goes unanswered, and a $500 fine for every question answered untruthfully.
... many citizens are unwilling to give away their right to privacy [and] are refusing to return the ACS. This automatically results in an additional ACS form being sent, followed by a series of phone calls. In 21% of the cases, an unannounced, personal visit [or more] from a Census Bureau representative follows
... the Census Bureau has no authority to enforce the laws that require the ACS be answered. The Census Bureau can press formal charges for non-compliance, but this is somewhat impractical given the number of ACS forms that are not returned, or returned incomplete.
***A lawsuit would likely draw media attention and a public outcry that would very probably bring an end to the ACS, or end mandatory compliance. As of early 2007, no legal action has been taken against anyone for refusing to answer the ACS.***
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Mar 7, 2010, at 5:49 PM
Sorry about the double dribble.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Mar 7, 2010, at 5:51 PM
They will get the bare minimum from me, and that's all they will get. There is no legitimate reason in my mind for then to know anything other than how many people live in my home.
-- Posted by 3kids_mom on Sun, Mar 7, 2010, at 8:03 PM
The answer they will get when they come knocking on my door, "He's moved and left no forwarding address."
-- Posted by voyager on Sun, Mar 7, 2010, at 9:19 PM
I think the whole thing boils down to not so much the questions asked but who is asking.
-- Posted by Old John on Sun, Mar 7, 2010, at 9:37 PM
Wheels I explained this to death on the other post. If you haven't gotten it yet it ain't gonna happen.
Let me know when they show up at your door demanding answers from you and we can talk again.
-- Posted by FriendO on Mon, Mar 8, 2010, at 6:33 AM
FriendO
You speak as if there is no connection between the Census Bureau and ACS. The article I asked you to comment on says different. It's not that I haven't gotten it, I just am not taking you as the last word on the subject.
If we only get the short form, no problem, if a couple of months later we get the long form, I have a problem with it. They are asking questions that the government has no business answering law abiding citizens, who are assumed by ACS to have less rights than a common criminal when it comes to answering questions.
You immediately made the assumption this was an Obama thing, it is not, he did not invent the problem. It is just getting worse as time goes on because we are being blindly obedient!
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Mar 8, 2010, at 6:55 AM
The census is every ten years and includes ten questions.
The ACS is longer and can go out anytime.
Census does not equal ACS. They're like cousins. I know they're related, but they are certainly not the same.
I enjoy my privacy probably more than the average person; I can also think of worse abuses of privacy than the census, both by government entities or (more likely) businesses; abuses that people don't seem to mind at all. More likely than not your life history is being bought and sold by marketers right now. It's interesting to see this battle picked over so many others available.
-- Posted by FriendO on Mon, Mar 8, 2010, at 7:21 AM
More likely than not your life history is being bought and sold by marketers right now. It's interesting to see this battle picked over so many others available.
-- Posted by FriendO on Mon, Mar 8, 2010, at 7:21 AM
Some of which will be furnished by ACS if we are dumb enough to answer all of their questions.
Still not quite certain where the authority for ACS putting these surveys out comes from.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Mar 8, 2010, at 3:13 PM
It seems that ACS and the Census Bureau are indeed 'linked' ... rather evidenced by the fact that ACS information is included in the government's census bureau sites. I haven't taken the time to search further, but the history of ACS so far is pretty interesting ... as well as disturbing.
"... I can also think of worse abuses of privacy than the census, both by government entities or (more likely) businesses; abuses that people don't seem to mind at all."
Off-hand, I can't ... so far, no business has ever asked me how many bathrooms are in my house. ~grinning~ But yes, there may be worse abuses of privacy conducted by govt. entities ... abuses which we tolerated in the name of ... whatever justification our government gave us.
-- Posted by gurusmom on Mon, Mar 8, 2010, at 4:15 PM
so far, no business has ever asked me how many bathrooms are in my house.
-- Posted by gurusmom on Mon, Mar 8, 2010, at 4:15 PM
Mom,
That one would have been easy to answer as late as about 1950!
Surveys that business takes are voluntary, and you can take them or decline.
The ACS/Census are different, and they plainly state if up front. Answered the damned questions or all kinds of horrible things are going to beset you.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Mar 8, 2010, at 4:31 PM
The Census Bureau have nine years between census counts to find new and interesting ways to justify their existence, and justify expanding the size of the office. (It is a curious thing that federal agencies always seem to expand the size of its offices faster than the population grows.)
"... requires employment addresses, the time each resident leaves for work, and when he or she arrives home. If the resident doesn't work, the ACS asks if the person could have worked if offered a job, and other related questions. Self-employment, all income sources, and the total income earned over the previous year for each resident is also required. "
Reminds me of the old Mad Magazine Questionaire. It just needs a few additions:
1.) Where do you keep the valuables in your house?
2.) Estimated Value of Jewelry, Cash, & Coins:
3.) Do you keep a spare key hidden near your house? Where?
4.) Do you have any large dogs?
5.) Are you part of a Neighborhood Watch program?
6.) Do you have an alarm system? Where is it located? What is the key code? (You can trust us, we're from the government and we're here to help you...)
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Mon, Mar 8, 2010, at 4:58 PM
Don't give anyone in government any more ideas, Spank!
Although ... I suppose there could be some future justification for knowing how many tree guys have watered; imagine a new department dedicated to the safety of trees from ... New laws to be made, more employees needed for enforcement ...
Women! We could petition our representatives for a law prohibiting anyone from standing up while watering the toilet! Hmm, maybe there's something to having more laws after all.
-- Posted by gurusmom on Mon, Mar 8, 2010, at 7:34 PM
Gurusmom, I can see it now. The Arbor Day Foundations joins Sewer Monitors Union calling for toilet restriction laws. Million dollar grant awarded for study of improper toilet habits impact.
-- Posted by Old John on Mon, Mar 8, 2010, at 7:45 PM
And the fine would be ... having to clean the bathroom every week for six months! Bet that would reduce the number of violations!
-- Posted by gurusmom on Sun, Mar 14, 2010, at 3:37 AM
A March 14, Newport News, Letter to Editor says exactly what I thought--add the visit to our neighborhood homes to 'verify' our house number and street name (clearly marked):
"The Census Bureau letter we received last week was not the returnable form I was expecting; it was a letter of notice to inform the public that the Census Bureau will be sending those forms in the coming weeks, again by mail, and to be on the lookout for them. They would like us to fill out and return the needed information promptly. What a waste of the taxpayers' money.
"... Taxpayers paid for staff, paper, ink and postage times two, not to mention that there will be teams collecting data door to door all over the United States and its territories. Oops, that would be times three.
"This is another fiscally irresponsible job done by the bureaucrats in Washington. And to think these are the same people who are telling us that they are going to save us money with health-care reform."
Also found it interesting that the test which potential Census workers take are, as one official stated, geared to 6th-7th graders; can be taken over again and again until it's passed; specifically mentions that drug testing will not be given. Additionally, the official said that felons would not be hired ... with a few exceptions. Huh? There was a link to the test, but for some reason it didn't work ... that is 3 times the links on census-related, non-government articles have not worked.
Our government at work ... Don't we wish they'd all take about a 6-month vacation every year?
-- Posted by gurusmom on Sun, Mar 14, 2010, at 3:45 AM
I understood $8 to $10/hour.
-- Posted by Old John on Sun, Mar 14, 2010, at 10:50 AM
I had the patience to read your entire Part I. And am glad I did. It answered more than a few of my questions. And I wasn't aware of the entire scope of the American Community Survey, until now.
Amazing how suddenly, the public has FINALLY started to not take everything at "face-value" only, when it comes to what little is left of true privacy.
I've gotten more education in the past five-years, than I ever did in the previous fifty, when it comes down to "legalese".
And you can interpret that as GOOD, or BAD, depending upon your persuasion...!
-- Posted by donknome-2 on Sun, Mar 14, 2010, at 11:06 AM
Man I sure do not remember so many complaints about the census in 2000...
-- Posted by futile_rant on Sun, Mar 14, 2010, at 12:53 PM
The article about the tests for census workers said they're paid about $14 an hour.
I've gotten more education in the past five-years, than I ever did in the previous fifty, when it comes down to "legalese".
And you can interpret that as GOOD, or BAD, depending upon your persuasion...!
-- Posted by donknome-2 on Sun, Mar 14, 2010, at 11:06 AM
Me, too, donknome! The internet has done wonders for my 'political education.' I consider that good, even though sometimes wishing I didn't know as much as I do now. Kind of destroys the blind faith/trust that felt pretty good in the past.
futile ... We weren't paying enough attention in 2000, were we? The less attention we pay to government, the better politicians like it.
Very funny, James! Ain't it cold bathin' in the creek every Saturday night in the winter?
True on the genealogy, Theorist ... but finding ancestors is one thing ... finding out their salary or how many bed/bathrooms were in their home; their emotional/mental state; how long it took them to get to work; what their utilities cost ... probably isn't all that important to genealogists ... and probably shouldn't be important to our government.
I'll try to get back to you on yours later, Ike ... Remember, I lost an hour before I even got up today!
-- Posted by gurusmom on Sun, Mar 14, 2010, at 6:09 PM
Man I sure do not remember so many complaints about the census in 2000...
-- Posted by futile_rant on Sun, Mar 14, 2010, at 12:53 PM
That is because everybody was enjoying their Great Spotted Suck Toad Soup.
Ike,
Thanks for reminding everybody that there is always a gun.
You guys got something to hide?
-- Posted by Theorist on Sun, Mar 14, 2010, at 4:34 PM
Not me. I will answer the door naked.
James,
Sometimes the Great Spotted Suck Toad Soup gets stuck in my winter beard.
-- Posted by Lumpy on Sun, Mar 14, 2010, at 6:35 PM
How many generations do you need to be here before you can claim native american??
-- Posted by matou on Sun, Mar 14, 2010, at 6:36 PM
"Aren't these the same people so interested in genealogy on another thread? If so, you would know how extremely valuable the census information can be to tracing your roots."
Yes valuable to a degree, also inaccurate due to unqualified people making entries in many cases, and contradictory in many cases from one census to the next.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Mar 14, 2010, at 9:28 PM
I still think it is not so much the questions but who is asking. Well make that demanding under penalty of law.
-- Posted by Old John on Sun, Mar 14, 2010, at 10:41 PM
Guess partly it's just the idea of it ... sharing our private information that we probably wouldn't tell our friends or relatives (like how much money we make?) with the government ... just so they can utilitize the information to target and benefit certain areas or groups of people.
-- Posted by gurusmom on Mon, Mar 15, 2010, at 1:27 AM
Short reply, Ike ... Verifying what I wrote initially on this thread.
Failure to answer your census form = $100.00 fine. -- Posted by Ike on Sun, Mar 14, 2010, at 3:55 PM
The actual, legitimate Census, probably ...
ACS, no ... This from one of the Census Bureau's websites: "The Census Bureau emphasizes that all questions must be answered. The ACS envelope arrives with a warning that a response is required by law. The form threatens a $100 fine for every question that goes unanswered, and a $500 fine for every question answered untruthfully." (I keep wondering how they'd know that ... unless they do some unethical research to verify those private answers.)
"According to Section 221, persons who do not respond shall be fined not more than $100. Title 18 U.S.C. Section 3571 and Section 3559, in effect amends Title 13 U.S.C. Section 221 by changing the fine for anyone over 18 years old who refuses or willfully neglects to complete the questionnaire or answer questions posed by census takers from a fine of not more than $100 to not more than $5,000."
Note Section 221, which you mentioned, was amended.
Might do a Chapter 2, after getting wrapped up in 3 hours of internet searching & reading. Finally found the ACS questionaire ... but not sure yet if it's this year's. AND some history on it's inception and evolvement.
-- Posted by gurusmom on Mon, Mar 15, 2010, at 4:22 AM
So, I guess the confusion comes because if the government already knows all of this why are they requiring us to tell them again?
I will fill my form out and mail it in, but I won't discount the concerns of those who have concerns/objections; open minded and non-judgmental...
-- Posted by Red_Rhino on Mon, Mar 15, 2010, at 6:08 AM
Now the argument is turning to... the government already has this information. So why are you concerned about giving it to them again.
Ok... If they already have the information, why do they need to waste a bunch of money to regather the same information. A classic example of wasteful government who has no concern for the taxpaying citizen.
My suggestion, take the census as provided for by our founding fathers and cut out the waste.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Mar 15, 2010, at 8:08 AM
I will do what i did in 2000. Tell him all he needs to know is that I live here.
-- Posted by mogearjammer on Mon, Mar 15, 2010, at 8:06 PM
I'm confused (okay, so what if I often am?) ... Lot of news last week saying we could expect the census forms to come in the mail this week. Today, news programs saying people started getting them today.
Ours came March 2 ...
Truthfully, though ... yes, govt. knows how much money we make ... maybe. However, they don't necessarily know how long it takes us to get to work, or what our country of ancestry is, or if we have a refrigerator, or what our utilities cost, or how many rooms are in our place of residence, etc.
And yes, the information is shared ... with other governmental departments, as well as given to private business. It's surprising to see how many corporations are involved in the census taking ... which probably means they actually DO have access to personal information.
Ever heard of the Current Population Survey?
Just an aside ... The annual cost for the ACS, sent to approximately 250,000 homes each month, is $150 million. Just another drop in the bucket ...
-- Posted by gurusmom on Mon, Mar 15, 2010, at 9:14 PM
OK, guys...I got my form today. It asks for the full name, birthdate, age and race of EACH person in the house. Your telephone number (in case they don't understand an answer) & whether you own; have a mortgage or paid in full or if you rent or live there for free. Another letter states: "Your answers are confidential. This means the Census Bureau cannot give out info that identifies you or your household. Your answers are used for statistical purposes, and no other purpose.
Federal law protects your privacy & keeps your answers confidential (Title 13, U.S. Code, Sections 9 and 214). The answers you give on the census cannot be obtained by law enforcement or tax collection agencies. Your answers cannot be used in court. They cannot be obtained with a Freedon of Information Act (FOIA) request. As allowed by law, census data becomes public after 72 years (Title 44, U.S. Code, Section 2108). This info can be used for family history & other types of historical research."
Got it?
-- Posted by Turnip on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, at 2:49 PM
Yes, Turnip, those sound really good.
The truth of the matter is a little different. Private companies are somehow involved in the census (ACS, at least). I'll try to find those company names again, and decipher just what their part in it all is ... Should have kept that website, but since it was rather vague in details (well, it was one of the many census sites, so that figures), I didn't bother saving.
And then there were (in 2007) the 'inadvertent' posting of over 300 returns on a public web site. In 2007, the govt admitted that the Census Bureau provided the Secret Service with the names and addresses of Japanese Americans in 1943 (despite confidentiality laws). In 2003, over 200 laptops with census info were lost of stolen.
-- Posted by gurusmom on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, at 5:19 PM
Y'know, I love a good conspiracy theory as much as anyone but some of you people are bordering on the insane on this subject. I just got my census form. All they wanted to know is how many people live in my home, nationalities and whether I rent or own. The same questions that have been on every census form I've ever gotten.
-- Posted by Data48 on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, at 6:01 PM
OK, my point is I have given out more information on a sweepstakes or for those darn cigarette coupons from Marlboro. I really don't see a problem. But I'm all about free will, throw it out if you must, ignore it if you want or answer the door nude speaking klingon (be sure to use windex)...makes me no nevermind. ☺ Ironically, many of you complain about government waste...seems silly to me to make them come to you for the information. After all...that is wasteful, right?
-- Posted by Turnip on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, at 6:12 PM
Wiff, I guess I missed that question since all of my household members stay here all the time. I do remember reading you should not include children away at college, people in nursing homes. It was my understanding the purpose of this was so they would not be counted twice.
-- Posted by Turnip on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, at 10:06 PM
Turnip, That raises a good question. Suppose your parents live at home but they have all their mail forwarded to you. How are they counted? The census form will not go to their residence.
-- Posted by Old John on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, at 10:12 PM
Old John, I left you a apology on a previous post (clean air, I believe). To answer your question, if their mail is being forwarded to you then it should still be addressed to them, right? My advice is to complete it for them and their household. Easy enough, right?
-- Posted by Turnip on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, at 10:14 PM
I've worked for the census in 1990 and 2000. I've never heard of them fining anyone for not filling out the census form. The department tries to get the most information they can but they end up settling for what they can get. You're told to tell people when you interview them that the government needs an accurate count in order to know where to improve roads, schools, hospitals, etc. Some people don't like giving out any info, zip, nada, not even how many members are in a household. They give various reasons why they won't give up the info but usually they are angry at the government for any number of reasons--from being injured in combat to their child being denied free school lunches and so on. Really though, if people won't even give a head count of their household, they are really kicking their own ***. Those benefits that would come to their area aren't going to be coming to the area, which they will get angry about and in the next census they won't give up any info again. And so on.
-- Posted by stardog on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, at 10:50 PM
Stardog, Makes sense to me. Just too bad we depend so much on the federal government to give back the local money we sent them when it could have just stayed here.
Turnip, Your right, surely I would know if Mom had an illegal living in the barn.
-- Posted by Old John on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, at 11:05 PM
Old John, it may be worth asking her first. ;o) Speaking of that, I best check my shed...I hear the homeless have been shacking up in sheds lately. Now where did I put my louiville slugger? ☻
-- Posted by Turnip on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, at 11:37 PM
Glad to hear that no one has received the 28-page ACS Form instead of the Census Form. I guess, though, that since it isn't just sent out every ten years, but is sent to random addresses every month ... perhaps someday it will be the turn of someone in this area? Would love to see the reactions to it if someone did get it, though. The ACS is not to 'count the population,' obviously.
I don't have a problem with the census forms, or counting us, for the reasons given in our Constitution ...
Reminds me: In 1790 we hired the equivalent of 1 census worker per 6,000 people. Now, we hire 1 census per 474 people. That's progress for you ... but certainly seems it should have been the other way around, doesn't it? 650 census workers back then, riding on horseback and hand-writing the information--650,000 or so now, with cars, mail, telephones and computers? Ah, the efficiency of our government ...
-- Posted by gurusmom on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 3:18 AM
Rick,
My census also wanted to know what race I am. Don't know why that matters, but I answered honestly. Scientists say that all man evolved from apes in Africa, therefore my ancestory can be traced to Africa, therfore I'm African-American and answered as such.
-- Posted by FreedomFadingFast on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 9:07 AM
I heard a rather stupid commercial for the census the other day. It talks about a community that has so many people so it gets three buses. The community grows but the people don't fill out the census forms, so they still only have three, very crowded, buses. I thought that was a bit silly.
The number of buses would typically be based on ridership, not on total population. If the buses are continually full, then they'll add to the number and frequency of buses. If not, they won't. It really doesn't matter if you community doubles in size, if the new population isn't riding the bus, you don't need more buses.
The census is supposed to be about determining the number of people to determine the number and distribution of congressional representatives. The federal government really shouldn't be involving itself in deciding how many buses any given community has or runs. That's the problem with our country today, we let Washington decide too many things that really should be out of their jurisdiction.
I don't know how we got to this situation. Given the financial shape we're in as a nation, maybe now is the time to start revisiting the role of the federal government in our lives. We can start by not letting them expand that role. Then, perhaps, we can consider shrinking it.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 9:19 AM
Today I got a reminder card to complete the census form if I haven't already.
-- Posted by Old John on Mon, Mar 22, 2010, at 7:37 PM
Old John,
Today I received a personal visit by a census worker, while I am vacationing in an RV Resort in Florida.
In spite of the fact that it was evident from my license on both motor home and automobile indicating that I was from out of state and a winter visitor, she was rather insistent that I needed to fill out something for her. I told her that I was not a Florida resident, but instead a Missouri resident and intended being counted in my own congressional district if I was counted at all. There are hundreds of RVs' in this developement and I saw at least two census workers with their little pads going door to door. At least 90% of these folks were from out of state. The few that live here year round should have received forms in the mail.
I don't think the Canadian next door filled out her forms either.
A very wasteful process at best.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Mar 22, 2010, at 8:11 PM
I'm tempted to use Rick's idea and send the card to the magazine company that sent me a letter from a teacher not in the districts I pay taxes in. Teacher says she can get a free subscription for her class if I buy a magazine and give back to the community. It's for the children you know!
It must be important to the teacher to take time away from her grant writing that takes up most of the class quiet time to write such a letter.
-- Posted by Old John on Tue, Mar 23, 2010, at 10:57 AM
So how many will they need for healthcare? -- Posted by Wiff on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 9:34 AM
I can't count that far ... but just think ... we'll start adding employees even before the full bill goes into effect, and before the next persidential elections ... so the GOOD thing is, the unemployment numbers will go down!
The bad thing is ... government employees salaries and perks have to be paid by ... someone.
And yes, we also got the census postcard. That's three mailings and one personal visit. Our government ... always efficient and budget-conscious.
Hated to read that, Wheels ... and imagine all campgrounds in those southern states are experiencing the same sort of wastefulness. Here again, though ... those temporary census workers make the unemployment rate look better--for now.
Remember the big RIF in the military years ago? That's what our federal government should probably be doing.
-- Posted by gurusmom on Tue, Mar 23, 2010, at 5:32 PM
I got one of those friendly reminders in the mail yesterday also. Strange, I participated in the enumeration last week.
g-mom,
You are not suggesting the draft are you?
Wheels,
You can run, but you can't hide.
-- Posted by Lumpy on Tue, Mar 23, 2010, at 6:01 PM
van de Ven,
You are correct, big brother will find me.
You have a classy name. I just seperated it the way I found it in the oldest records I have seen.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Mar 23, 2010, at 6:44 PM
I spoke to the Canadian from next door this afternoon. The census lady was there asking him nosey question also. His license plate is from Ontario and plainly visible, but she had a need to know I guess.
Anyone want to venture a guess as to how close they will actually come in the census count.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Mar 23, 2010, at 6:48 PM
Wheels, I hope big brother will find you having a swell time.
Vandeven, Your name rhimes with get even.
James Nall, We might have kinfolk.
-- Posted by Old John on Tue, Mar 23, 2010, at 7:28 PM
Wheels,
Some of the old Dutchmen from our neck of the woods still call me Fawn-duh-Fun.
The name "Schaffer" has about one thousand different ways to spell / pronounce it also.
-- Posted by Lumpy on Tue, Mar 23, 2010, at 8:11 PM
van de Ven,
When I was growing up, there was no way I could have got more than the "n" and maybe the "e" correct if I had to spell it the way the old timers pronounced it. My Grandpa would say Bill Fon a Fen meaning your Great Grandpa who only lived just a piece up the hill.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Mar 23, 2010, at 8:17 PM
Wheels,
I have heard that pronunciation also!
Usually I just answer to, "hey, *******!".
-- Posted by Lumpy on Tue, Mar 23, 2010, at 8:43 PM
van de Ven,
Would that be a form of endearment by your spouse? ☺ ☺ ☺
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Mar 23, 2010, at 8:51 PM
Wheels,
Mostly!
-- Posted by Lumpy on Tue, Mar 23, 2010, at 8:52 PM
vulcan77,
I participated in the enumeration also! Made me feel good!
-- Posted by Lumpy on Wed, Mar 24, 2010, at 4:35 PM
Anyone see the Colbert show about the Census? It was pretty funny about mocking the paranoia surrounding the census. I'll post it if I find it.
They want to know everything about me! My name, my race, how many kids I have. They want to know about the fact I merely exist, how dare they?!
-- Posted by almighty on Wed, Mar 24, 2010, at 4:51 PM
g-mom, You are not suggesting the draft are you? -- Posted by Vandeven 2010 on Tue, Mar 23, 2010, at 6:01 PM
No, no ... I was suggesting that our federal government should perhaps be considering RIF (Reduction In Forces) for itself.
Anyone want to venture a guess as to how close they will actually come in the census count. -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Mar 23, 2010, at 6:48 PM
We'll never know ... Even if the government suspects the numbers are off, that's certain to be a State Secret.
I was wondering, James ... the intent of the census is to 'count' us, right? Why do they need our age and birth date? Might as well have asked for our SS numbers ... so instead, they do that and we won't wonder about it? And our race? And our sex? What's all that got to do with 'head counting?'
Let us know where to send postcards to you, vulcan ... You know, which federal prison will be your address?
-- Posted by gurusmom on Thu, Mar 25, 2010, at 2:43 AM
almighty, have you read the 'long form' questions? You know, the one that isn't actually the census form?
If I ever receive that one, the federal government can depend upon supporting ME in one of their federal prisons, I guess. Do federal prisoners have to cook and do dishes and laundry, and vacuum and mop, you think?
-- Posted by gurusmom on Thu, Mar 25, 2010, at 2:48 AM
On the "long form" is there a question about how often you have sex? At 74 the answer would be wishful thinking. What was, was. What is, ain't. What will be, won't.
-- Posted by voyager on Thu, Mar 25, 2010, at 6:46 AM
I didn't see that on the ACS form, voyager ...
It's darned obvious that many of the questions are probably geared to business concerns. Here's just a tiny sampling of some 'interesting' questions on it:
This was also on the short (actual census) form: "What is Person 1's race? ... Black, African Am., or Negro" ... My question? Aren't those all the same 'race?'
"What is the main reason members of this household are staying at this address?" ... Uh, because living outside in the winter especially is a bummer?
""How did this person usually get to work LAST WEEK?" (Not my caps) ... Why does anyone need to know this?
"What time did this person usually leave home to go to work LAST WEEK?" ... Is this so they can mess with Daylight Savings Time again?
"How many times has the person been married? What year was person last married?" ... Having a tough time trying to figure out why anyone would want/need to know that.
Asks if you rent ... then asks what the dwelling might sell for, what the real estate taxes are, and how much is the property insurance. Sure, call your landlord and see if he wants to share that info with you? Funny!
At the very end: "The Census Bureau estimates that, for the average household, this form will take 38 minutes to complete, including the time for reviewing the instructions and answers. Send comments regarding this burden estimate or any other aspect of this collection of information, including suggestions for reducing this burden, to: (Address and e-address listed)
Like I'd feel comfortable calling attention to myself by writing them how about how intrusive and unconstitutional and wasteful I think this ACS survey is?
There's a lot of really scary information about this ACS thing ... but guess since none of us received one, no point in relating it ... Except for the fact that it could possibly open some people's eyes to the things we have allowed our government to do.
-- Posted by gurusmom on Fri, Mar 26, 2010, at 1:48 AM
Well, I answered my 10 questions and dutifully sent it in. Unfortunately there are so many issues to be concerned about, this seemed to be the least - with the exception of how much they spent to promote and the hiring to canvass. The big brother in our brave new world may have missed the novel's timeline, but is happening as feared nontheless.
-- Posted by blogbudsman on Fri, Mar 26, 2010, at 5:12 AM
Menu
Only part of the novel; hope some have the patience to read it, and perhaps even do some more research into especially ACS, which was instituted by non-elected officials in our government employee. Was it voted on then, or just approved by a president?
The census as it is now, could logically be viewed as 'politicized.' The original intent was to actually count the population, for the purpose of assigning representative numbers to each state.
What we have now, on the long form--which we all know haa been eliminated, except ... it obviously hasn't been actually--are questions that are indeed politically motivated ... intended to disclose things that will aid the government in future endeavors to expand programs for certain groups of individuals ... Wiff has some of it figured out: " ... a way to figure out where the leches live so they can pump in more money to buy votes with."
According to Judge Napolitano, although the 'long form' is almost certainly unconstitutional, a citizen can and probably will be fined/imprisoned for not answering the questions. Yes, many of the questions are intrusive into our private lives. That doesn't bother some people?
It does bother me that money is being spent on printing and mailing letters telling us that the census is coming up, notices being printed and put into fortune cookies (good grief!), and census workers being hired/paid to go door-to-door to tell us that the census is coming up.
Sorry, FriendO, one was here just this week--knocking on the door of our house which has the house numbers, the street name almost in our front yard, and three vehicles in plain view: "... census takers don't go door-to-door anymore. They just mail the forms out. ... door-to-door people go out prior to the actual census to verify addresses. ... They only knock on the doors when a building must be verified that is vacant or occupied.". What an extraordinary waste of taxpayers' dollars!
Suggesting the census go back to its original intent is "dumb, stubborn, ignorant?" Perhaps there should be an award for people who willingly accept every single thing our government does or wants to do ... What could we call it? The Head in the Sand Award? Maybe The Blind Trust Award?
So sorry, but my small amount of research so far on ACS has disturbed me ... It's sad to keep discovering reasons not to trust our own American government.
5. How will the 2010 Census differ from previous censuses?
In 2010, every residence will receive a short form of just 10 questions. More detailed socioeconomic information previously collected through the decennial census will be asked annually of a small percentage of the population through the American Community Survey. To learn more about the American Community Survey, visit www.census.gov/acs. (Hmmm: Page moved or no longer available last night)
While all this sounds pretty daunting, there's a simple solution to this particular issue. We all know from Civics 101 that the federal government only has such lawful authority as is specifically granted to it under the Constitution. A quick reference to the 4th, 9th and 10th amendments should be all that's necessary to remind you that your right to privacy is still fully intact and nosy, snooping federal bureaucrats demanding access to the intimate details of your household and life are about as un-American and un-patriotic as it gets.
https://www.checkpointusa.org/Census/Census.htm
How many of our citizens rejoiced at the news of 'no long forms,' not realizing that "The Census Bureau intends the ACS to replace the "long form" questionnaire of the 10-year Census. Information provided is entered into a central data base. This data bank holds extremely sensitive details about countless residents in every area of the United States."
... the specific race of each individual, language spoken, education level, citizenship and ancestry. The physical, emotional and mental state of each resident is also to be supplied, including certain medical conditions.
... requires employment addresses, the time each resident leaves for work, and when he or she arrives home. If the resident doesn't work, the ACS asks if the person could have worked if offered a job, and other related questions. Self-employment, all income sources, and the total income earned over the previous year for each resident is also required.
... how many children each resident has given birth to, if any, or if any residents are currently pregnant. Military service and retirement questions are also covered in the ACS.
... inquiries are dedicated to the residence itself, including when it was built, how much land it occupies, how many rooms it has, number of bathrooms, type of plumbing, and market worth. The ACS also wants to know the cost of monthly utility bills, mortgage or rent, and the dates each resident moved in.
The Census Bureau maintains answers to all ACS questions are held in the strictest confidence ... [however] business owners can use the ACS data base to see whether their services or products would benefit a particular geographic area. For example, Wal-Mart might decide to put an outlet in your neighborhood based on information provided by the ACS data base.
The Census Bureau emphasizes that all questions must be answered. The ACS envelope arrives with a warning that a response is required by law. The form threatens a $100 fine for every question (heard there are 50) that goes unanswered, and a $500 fine for every question answered untruthfully.
... many citizens are unwilling to give away their right to privacy [and] are refusing to return the ACS. This automatically results in an additional ACS form being sent, followed by a series of phone calls. In 21% of the cases, an unannounced, personal visit [or more] from a Census Bureau representative follows
... the Census Bureau has no authority to enforce the laws that require the ACS be answered. The Census Bureau can press formal charges for non-compliance, but this is somewhat impractical given the number of ACS forms that are not returned, or returned incomplete.
***A lawsuit would likely draw media attention and a public outcry that would very probably bring an end to the ACS, or end mandatory compliance. As of early 2007, no legal action has been taken against anyone for refusing to answer the ACS.***
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-acs-american-community-survey.htm
Replies (67)