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The Irony Of It All
Brad Hollerbach

Is MODOT Yanking Our Cable?

Posted Thursday, February 5, 2009, at 2:24 PM

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  • Good article Brad.

    I know the claim earlier was they couldn't put the cable in the center because of the fiber optic cable installed a few years ago but I was thinking, do like we do at our homes, Call before you dig.

    So then maybe you have it one foot off center. Big deal!

    -- Posted by Ron Cook on Mon, Feb 9, 2009, at 8:41 AM
  • I agree with you. If they are afraid of the posts being undermined, then drive them deeper. They keep avoiding that there is fiber optic cabling in the approximate center of the median and it supposedly carries government information. I believe that this is the real reason as to why the three strand guard cables are so close to the shoulder... even though the posts could have been driven closer to the center of the median, Uncle Sam wouldn't let them.

    Personally, I like the guard cables because it prohibits the Cape PD [highway patrol are the good guys] from making U-turns where they choose. I also find it funny that people don't like them because they could loose control and crash into them quite readily: If you're that afraid, you shouldn't be driving in the first place.

    -- Posted by isobar on Mon, Feb 9, 2009, at 8:45 AM
  • I like the cable guards as well. I feel the stats speak for themselves. The fiber optic trunk lines in the middle of the median have been hypothesized as being the possible reason for the placement, but I found it interesting that MODOT did not give that as an excuse.

    That of course wouldn't have been a valid excuse since the fiber conduit only occupies 6 inches of what I am guessing is at least a 30 foot wide median.

    Thanks for reading.

    -- Posted by Brad_Hollerbach on Mon, Feb 9, 2009, at 9:25 AM
  • I've always considered the phrase "yanking his chain" to mean when someone tries to vex someone else, either good-naturedly or mean-spiritedly. Are you sure about that, Brad? Maybe I'm wrong.

    -- Posted by EJ Rotert on Mon, Feb 9, 2009, at 12:37 PM
  • I really don't have much of an issue with the guard cables. At first I questioned the placement of them, but after researching it, I agree with it. First of all, I believe they extended the shoulder on that side of the interstate as to not get any closer to the driving lane.

    The placement of them in a impermeable surface makes a lot of sense. I work with soil everyday, it's my job. Putting the posts further down will help some, but when there is a heavy rainfall and the ground is already saturated, as it is right now, you're still more prone to failure. With them in the asphalt, you don't have to worry about that. I don't believe there is any issue with water tables, not true water tables. However, there could be perched water tables. This is very likely in a setting that has been exposed to very heavy compaction by all the equipement that was used to build and maintain the interstate. Just as compaction is a problem in a farm field, the problem can exist here.

    As far as why there isn't cables on the northbound lane? Why would you need them? Just because it's not in the middle of the median doesn't mean it's not just as effective. If you have a vehicle cross-over from the northbound lane, it's still going to be stopped from coming into the southbound lane by the cables.

    -- Posted by truetiger98 on Mon, Feb 9, 2009, at 12:37 PM
  • “Vexing” is the more common definition of the phrase. That’s why I said “sometimes.”

    --

    If a north-bound car careens out of control and crosses the median, I have my doubts that having the system right next to the south-bound lane is going to prevent a head-on collision – which is what it is designed to do. I would imagine that as close as the cables are to the south-bound lane that the wreckage would push into traffic causing at least a partial head-on. However, if the cables were locating in the middle of the median, the wreckage would be more self contained with less chance for collateral damage.

    At least that is my theory, and I for one am not going to volunteer to test it.

    Provided that the statistics from the Highway Patrol are accurate, I stand by them as being reflective of the effectiveness of the center-based systems.

    Thanks for reading.

    -- Posted by Brad_Hollerbach on Mon, Feb 9, 2009, at 1:30 PM
  • Me an' Coby also got a hoot out of those pretty mile markin' signs they installed a couple of years ago. Some sign maker made a ton o' money. Keep up the good work "Holler Back". I guess I better get back "behind the gate" afore people realize I was out.

    -- Posted by Hugh M Bean on Mon, Feb 9, 2009, at 1:32 PM
  • Actually, now that I think about it, Brad, the word you're looking for is `propaganda.' You know, Mark Twain said the difference between the correct word and the almost correct word is like the difference between lightning and a lightning bug. I know this to be true, because Peter Kinder told me this one day as a Missourian reporter.

    -- Posted by EJ Rotert on Mon, Feb 9, 2009, at 2:09 PM
  • People can use statistics anyway they want. Most of the time the author chooses to skew the statistics to favor his or her point of view. In this case the author simply does not understand what a center barrier cable is.

    The Highway Patrol does not define a center barrier cable as a cable placed exactly in the middle of two opposing lanes of traffic as Brad suggests. The Highway Patrol does define a center barrier cable as a cable placed between two opposing lanes of traffic, even if the cable is three feet from one lane or side.

    The cable will work in the same manner regardless of placement. The cable is simply a barrier that slows vehicles attempting to cross the median more abruptly than friction.

    -- Posted by Country_Boy on Mon, Feb 9, 2009, at 4:53 PM
  • You’re absolutely right about statistics. There are often two sides to every statistic and writer viewpoint can skew them greatly. But I don’t think that is the case here.

    While the Highway Patrol may define a center barrier cable as being located anywhere in the median, no matter its proximity to one lane or the other, I have been by several of the existing cable locations in the St. Louis metro area and they were all in the approximate middle of those medians. None of them were right next to the interstate as they are down here.

    A colleague of mine just came back from Jeff City who was actually paying attention to the placement of the cable guards and verified that is still the case.

    Thanks for reading.

    -- Posted by Brad_Hollerbach on Mon, Feb 9, 2009, at 5:55 PM
  • Just a couple comments - if you have vehicle problems on the interstate - pull off on the right shoulder - not the left. It's wider and more accommodating for just such an event. You should never pull off on the left shoulder - period - that's just an accident waiting to happen. The left lane is the passing lane and prone to higher speed traffic. Much more dangerous if you're trying to work on your vehicle or have a wrecker hook up to it.

    I initially questioned the placement of the cable near the southbound lane - but the first thought that came to my mind was median maintenance. The cables up north in the median have large rocks back filled around them to keep the posts from washing out (rocks possibly placed there after the fact when they had the flooding issues - but don't know that?). This would cause such a pain for the folks from the highway dept. trying to mow. They can't get close to the rocks & poles with the mowers - they would have to mow on both sides & have mowers that were sized appropriately & we would end up with a bunch of ugly weeds growing around the poles & rocks unless they used some type of chemicals for control (more expense & possibly harmful to the environment).

    As far as placement - it should serve the same purpose whether it's in the middle or close to one edge. I would actually think the poles in the asphalt would be less apt to come loose during a collision than if they were placed in the softer median.

    I'd say the numbers speak for themselves - leave well enough alone. If you've ever driven down the interstate at night & seen headlights crossing the median coming towards you (with no idea where the oncoming car was going to land & your heart racing) - you'll appreciate that cable no matter where it's at.

    -- Posted by ShowMeGuy on Tue, Feb 10, 2009, at 11:55 AM