Speak Out: Police chases...

Replies (38)

• There wouldn't have been a chase if the person had pulled over as per the law. How far do you want to go? I don't think we have enough information to make any judgement.

  All that is of any importance to me is that an Officer was killed in the performance of his duties and that happens too often. It seems some want to put the blame on him instead of the person who killed him.

  -- Posted by Acronym on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 8:46 AM

• Me'Lange: Would you have the same position if you were the one assaulted and stole YOUR car? I would suspect you would want the full force of the law acting on your behalf to bring the criminal to justice. That is how hypocritical liberal democrats are.

  -- Posted by jadip4me on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 9:00 AM

• Sorry to disagree, and perhaps there are other reports that I have not seen, but the report I read

  http://www.kfvs12.com/story/15273313/deadlycrash-under-investigation-in-pemiscot...

  does not state that this was a "high speed chase". Regardless, I am not condoning high speed chases and do think that in nearly every case there is a chance of an unintentional victim. Having said that, I'm not sure what an acceptable alternative would be. Let the vehicle go and hope to catch up to them later -- assuming they do not commit another crime? If the perpetrator will not heed the instruction of pulling over, and we just let her/him go, then aren't we setting a precedence of unintentionally saying "just run and you can get away because we don't want to take the chance of hurting our officers or the public in general". This is all very disconcerting.

  -- Posted by treegal on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 9:22 AM

• treegal, I think there can be a balance that addresses issues of public safety and criminal apprehension; too many seem to take an either or approach.

  -- Posted by Acronym on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 9:50 AM

• Acronym, perhaps you're right. I just can't think of a plausible balanced approach that would fit most if not all scenarios. A balanced approach would be desirable, but I have a hard time wrapping my mind around what that approach would entail. It would seem to me that a less than aggressive police-action/procedure could favor the perpetrator and an aggressive policy could endanger officers and the general public. I guess that's why I'm not in on any of these policy making procedures :-)

  -- Posted by treegal on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 10:17 AM

• When a chase becomes a danger to the officer, the accused or others then it should be stopped. They might loose the person at that time but will still be around to persue them at a different time. Remember the chase that started in chaffee a few years ago and resulted in a few deaths and another serious life altering injury. The cop was after the driver that failed to stop and in return passengers in the car paid the price.

  It is great these officers wanted to get the accused but was his life really worth it over a stolen car? Yes I would want justice if it was me but not if it caused a death.

  -- Posted by semoangel70 on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 10:18 AM

• I see nothing one way or the other concerning policy in this incident. It was individual decisions to block the road when they didn't have time to deploy the spikes.

  -- Posted by Old John on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 10:26 AM

• Old John

  Thats the way I take this situation also.

  I see logical points of both sides of this debate. As the family member of a police officer, I do not want to see any bystander or officer hurt in these chases. I think many officers are trained and may understand when the pursuit is to dangerous to the public and will back off. Many others may not use that same amount of common sense. One thing is for certain, none of these things would happen if not for the criminal.

  If you want to see a police department who may need more tactical drivers training and chase procedure training, research the Farmington Mo PD. These guys crash more police cars than Roscoe P Coltrane. Unfortunetly, they were also involved in a pursuit that killed some innocent bystanders a few years back.

  It may be because I have not personaly witnessed many high speed chases, but I have more of a problem with fire departments driving habits than police.

  -- Posted by Joe Dirte on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 10:53 AM

• -- Posted by treegal on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 10:17 AM

  Pretty much what Semoangels said, but with a few additions such as the severity of the crime and risk to others if the individual(s) get away. An example of this is hot pursuit from a crime scene with armed perpetrators who are a real danger. There was a case recently in which two brothers and a sister were heavily armed and had shot at Officers previously.

  No approach is going to be ideal, but I believe a reasonable balance should be attempted.

  -- Posted by Acronym on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 10:56 AM

• I don't call 60 mphs, which is what was reported, such a high speed chase that should be used as one of your 'proofs.' Some idiots, like this perp, would do stupid things like hitting parked police cars without regard to anyone. I believe the police should be given more credit then arm chair experts.

  -- Posted by LiveAnotherDay on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 12:31 PM

• Simply put, a police chase over a stolen vehicle and even a simple assault charge is NEVER worth putting civilians or leo's in harms way. In this case we have one dead officer and three wrecked vehicles. This sort of thing happens all too often and there needs to be strict regulations for law enforcement concerning high speed chases.

  I agree with Me'lange completely

  -- Posted by GREYWOLF on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 12:46 PM

• Does anyone even know what the "chase policy" is of any of the Law Enforcement Departments involved?

  Policies on pursuit and chain of command that works well in a large department may not work well in a small department. In this area, it is rare to have more than one or two deputies on duty at night and the person directing the pursuit will in all likelihood not be a ranking officers as none will be available.

  In many departments to take the decision out of the Officers on scene will require hiring additional supervisory personnel. This may be the way to go, but funding may very well not allow it. Sadly also, I have seen a lot of stupid people in supervisory positions.

  In order to accurately say a policy needs to be changed and in what way, it would be helpful to know what it is.

  -- Posted by Acronym on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 2:35 PM

• http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/article_77f95076-c818-11e0-9...

  -- Posted by FreedomFadingFast on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 2:44 PM

• Are you really debating that this officer's DEATH is not important enough to support a REVIEW of LEO department apprehension/chase policies?

  -- Posted by Me'Lange on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 3:14 PM

  Once again, you have run right up to the edge and jumped enthusiastically over it.

  -- Posted by Acronym on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 3:38 PM

• If an officer knows a person has a mental illness and that person is inside a house with weapons then all officers involved take every precaution to protect themselves, the perp and any civilians from harm so why would it ever be okay for an officer to get into a chase with someone who is mentally disturbed. If that person wouldn't hesitate to shoot why should they believe they wouldn't hesitate to use a vehichle as a deadly weapon.

  I have a brother who is an officer with South County. He knows everyday he puts on that uniform and gets into his car he is putting his life at risk as all officers do. Having a policy in place to cover these situations not only protects him, the other officers and the city but everyone else as well. How many cities can afford the lawsuits a high speed chase brings about?

  -- Posted by semoangel70 on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 4:59 PM

• Me'Lange,

  Would patrol cars with flashing lights positioned to block the roadway in the DARK be considered premeditated assault?

  -- Posted by Robert* on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 5:27 PM

• If I understand this right, the vehicle was stopped thus the officers didn't deploy the spikes assuming the chase had ended. The reported stolen vehicle then resumed flight giving them no time to reflect on policy. They mistakenly assumed the suspect would stop if boxed in.

  I am sure some rules of engagement policies would be a benefit to all concerned. A no chase policy as in do not chase and try to stop a fleeing vehicle period, I can't agree with.

  -- Posted by Old John on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 6:26 PM

• Make a law that says anyone that runs has their right foot and right hand surgically removed. Give the gangsters something to think about.

  -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 6:29 PM

• So far as policy and how it was handled... this could all be much ado about very little.

  Appears to me the full story is not known or if it is, there must have been more than one incident.

  Too bad it ended up with a law officer being killed, I am sorry for him and his family, and I would want to know more before condemning the police actions.

  -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 6:35 PM

• I agree with Me'Lange on reviewing the chase policy. There is no city that is populous enough in this region to warrant a high speed chase or ANY chase that puts lives in danger, especially when officers can track the individual down at his home or the local bar establishment where he hangs out. In a larger department, such as St. Louis, or one of its suburbs, I would imagine a chase may be a bit more justified, but not being as familiar with those areas, I'll just respond regarding chase policies in rural areas, including all of southeast missouri.

  -- Posted by Beaker on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 7:12 PM

• Guys you cant let them know if they run they will not be followed. What if it was a kidnapping also? If you let them go someone could be lost forever.

  As far as setting a road block it was a good idea. It looks like the smaller departments seriously need some training on setting one up. I'm sure their department lacks the funds to do so.

  -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 8:33 PM

• This is a situation in which whatever action the police took would give someone reason to question their actions. The man had attacked his step-father, set his home on fire, and stolen the vehicle.

  Police' actions are being questioned because of the death and injuries of three people. If they had done nothing, allowed him to go on his way, and he had attacked and injured another person the police would have been questioned for being too lenient. Officers often have a short time to make life and death decisions. They are not perfect. Why are we so quick to condemn their actions?

  -- Posted by Robert* on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 9:16 PM

• I really think this was a lack of training. This guy was a lunatic.

  -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 9:35 PM

• Training is a constant need. Small departments often do not have the funding necessary.

  -- Posted by Robert* on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 9:52 PM

• Just saw the perps Mother on Channel 2 news and she is stating they could not get help for this wayward son of hers, who she then states was hospitalized and given medication for his illness, after which he was released and then refused to take his pills because he determined he did not need them.

  It was their own Cadillac Escalade that was stolen by the son. The Mother and Step Father tipped the police that he might be headed for Hayti, where he had lived at one time. It was reported that he tried to set the father on fire as well as the house.

  -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 9:55 PM

• My mistake,I ;Me'Lange. Looking back at the initial posting I guess it is so. But many of the postings can be interpreted otherwise.

  -- Posted by Robert* on Wed, Aug 17, 2011, at 7:46 AM

• One of the facts of life is that life is complex; it will never be perfect. Our police officers will always be in harm's way dealing with situations over which they have little control and also dealing with disturbed individuals. Training is often reactionary, dealing with new situations.

  -- Posted by Robert* on Wed, Aug 17, 2011, at 8:18 AM

• I find it very difficult to set a policy to follow when the variables are so different in each case. For instance, the officers were in place to set spike strips when they were informed that the suspect had stopped. The officers return to their vehicles only to find out that he had taken off again. These officers put their lives on the line to stop a lunatic who had just attempted to kill someone by lighting them on fire. To me, the officers did their job and should be hailed as heroes, not ridiculed for making a split second decision.

  -- Posted by manning on Wed, Aug 17, 2011, at 8:33 AM

• Agreed, Manning;

  There was no high-speed chase; the officers were attempting to protect their community from an intruder who was known to have committed violent actions and whose behavior was erratic.

  -- Posted by Robert* on Wed, Aug 17, 2011, at 9:27 AM

• The spike strips were invented to reduce the number and duration of high-speed chases, but they do require the officers to get in front of the chase to use them. Also, they are best deployed immediately in front of the vehicle as it approaches, in order to prevent the vehicle from having time to detour around them. This, necessarily, puts the officers unprotected in the vicinity of the vehicle.

  The fact that the officers were using the spike strips indicates that they had no desire to be involved in a high speed pursuit, and sought to disable the vehicle to prevent it.

  While it is desirable not to have such pursuits, it is also desirable to keep dangerous criminals from escaping, and kidnappers from harming or killing those they have kidnapped, so I can see reasons that such pursuits can be warranted. For a simple traffice violation, probably not, but you never know from what a speeding person is running.

  -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Wed, Aug 17, 2011, at 10:05 AM

• Anybody, was there a police chase or not?

  -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Wed, Aug 17, 2011, at 10:05 AM

• Still would like to know if there was a police chase or not.

  -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Aug 19, 2011, at 11:40 AM

• http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/271938/3/Policeman-killed-in-collision-with-OFa...

  "Sheriff Tommy Greenwell tells NewsChannel 5 his officers were preparing to stop a 2002 Cadillac Escalade on southbound Interstate 55 near the Hayti exit around 12:30 a.m. Tuesday when the driver of the stolen SUV exited the highway and headed east on Missouri Route 84 towards Caruthersville.

  "Two Caruthersville Police Officers set up spike strips to halt the incoming suspects vehicle when the suspect collided with the first police car, resulting in minor injuries to Officer Richard Altice.

  "The suspect then tried to continue his flight and broadside the second patrol car; killing 28-year-old Caruthersville Officer Evan Burns, a two year veteran of the department. Investigators say Officer Burns was pronounced dead at the crash scene."

  Sounds like it meets the definition of a 'chase'. The question left unresolved is whether or not it was a 'high-speed' chase.

  -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Fri, Aug 19, 2011, at 11:44 AM

• Wheels, There may have been a following.

  Remember the O J Simpson police chase?

  -- Posted by Old John on Fri, Aug 19, 2011, at 11:44 AM

• Old John,

  I'm surprised the suspect wasn't shot trying to escape.

  -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Aug 19, 2011, at 6:08 PM

• Thanks S.H.

  -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Aug 19, 2011, at 6:09 PM

• First reports said the suspect was stopped and thus the spikes were not deployed. But the suspect took flight again so the officers had only the time to try to block the roadway with their cruisers. Yet to be reported is how the suv hit the first car and then proceeded to hit the second. The damage indicates a high speed impact.

  Makes me think the cars hit were not together but making two seperate road blocks with distance between them allowing the suspect to glance/push off one car and keep speed enough to do fatal damage as he hit the second.

  Sad story all around.

  I still don't think a policy has yet been written to cover this, nor do I think one can be. JMHO

  -- Posted by Old John on Sat, Aug 20, 2011, at 12:20 AM

• Many incidents occur on the spur of the moment; human behavior is difficult (sometimes impossible) to predict. Split second decisions must be made by young officers. We have our leisure to evaluate them and the results of their actions. Those who risk their lives to ensure our safety deserve our gratitude and our backing even when their actions do not have the desired results.

  -- Posted by Robert* on Sat, Aug 20, 2011, at 12:55 PM