-- Posted by Skeptic1 on Thu, Oct 21, 2010, at 10:32 PM
Yes that's right, Obama controls the economy therefore it is entirely his fault.
-- Posted by Kurt2020 on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 9:36 AM
How's that budget enduring? Right on track?
-- Posted by Old John on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 11:16 AM
Spaniard,
The budget is submitted by the President. What comes back to him is a series of spending bills to be signed. The President vetoed some before signing the revised versions, after a battle that went beyond the beginning of the fiscal year. At least one was passed over his veto.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 11:21 AM
As you can see, they died. The Congress carried the funding over until 2009 via continuing resolutions, until they could get Mr. Obama to sign their appropriations:
I'm afraid you can't pin the 2009 spending spree on President Bush, though I know you would like to do so.
I've pointed this out to you before.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 11:39 AM
The 2009 budget submitted by President Bush included $3.1 trillion in spending, with anticipated revenues of $2.7 trillion, leaving an anticipated defict of about $400 billion.
That would be less than 1/3 of the actual deficit the Congress ran up in that year.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 12:09 PM
How could anyone look at these numbers and defend them. They could have had a tax holiday for a few months.
I take that back. It wouldn't be fair to the people that don't pay income tax because they would have to give them a check so they didn't feel left out. Oh well.......
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 3:17 PM
Deficit spending is only wrong if done by conservative Republicans. Any liberal Democrat will tell you that.
-- Posted by FreedomFadingFast on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 3:52 PM
My error, by the way, on the 2009 budget. President Bush did not veto the 2009 spending bills, that was 2008. The 2009 bills did not make it to his desk for a veto.
So, let us look at the inconvient facts of this recession:
The economy appeared to be on track, with growing GDP, the Dow Jones Industrials rising towards their all-time high, at the time the Republicans 'handed the keys of Congress' over to the Democrats in January 2009.
The minimum wage was raised in July 2007, July 2008, and July 2009, increasing the cost of minimum wage labour by about 41%, with the first increase preceeding the beginning of the recession by only a few months.
The collapse of the Dow Jones Industrial Average
began on the first week of the first fiscal year under Nancy Pelosi's gavel, three months after the minimum wage was increased.
The budget deficit was declining after FY2004, up until FY2008, Nancy Pelosi's first budget year.
President Obama, not President Bush, signed the spending bill that heralded the 2009 spending spree, and our first $1-trillion-dollar-plus deficit.
_______
Mr. Obama may have 'inherited' a mess, but he inherited it from his own party.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 3:53 PM
Wish you guys would get jobs instead of sitting around collecting my tax dollars all day.
-- Posted by FriendO on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 3:55 PM
Friendo, I wish you had something interesting to post. BTW I retired three years ago and don't take social security. I did recently take a part time job for a little extra income to offset the rising cost of wrongheaded liberal policies.
I doubt if many posting on here are sitting around
collecting your tax money. Yours all went to programs for tattoo removal and turtle tunnels.
-- Posted by Old John on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 4:18 PM
"Friendo, I wish you had something interesting to post."
and I'd like to see something posted that doesn't have to do with Obama or a Democrat.
Life is rough.
-- Posted by FriendO on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 4:26 PM
You just did.
-- Posted by Old John on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 4:31 PM
FriendO wrote:
"and I'd like to see something posted that doesn't have to do with Obama or a Democrat."
We have a thread on a submarine running aground, one on legalizing pot, one on Proposition B...
That's just the ones that are visible on the screen now. I'm shocked that you can't see them.
The is an election season, and this is a political thread. You'll have to look at the other threads to see what you're looking for.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 4:37 PM
I thought the post on cat length was particularly intellectually stimulating.
-- Posted by FriendO on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 4:42 PM
FriendO wrote:
"I thought the post on cat length was particularly intellectually stimulating."
But you didn't post on it. In fact, none of the people who say they want to see non-political threads posted there, so it kind of faded out of sight.
Yet here you are, on a political thread, complaining that all the posts are political.
Methinks you doth protest too much...
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 4:47 PM
FriendO - I am willing to bet I have paid more taxes in the last 15 years than you have in a lifetime.
-- Posted by Skeptic1 on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 4:56 PM
Spaniard,
I have provided factual data that shows that your assertions that President Bush 'signed the budget' are false. I've also shown clearly that there were factors enacted by the Democrat Congress that precipitated the events that followed.
All I get from the other side are vague references to 'eight years of mismanagement' and 'deregulation' (with no specific reference to any particular act of deregulation by the Bush administration).
BTW, what have you to say about the fact that President Bush did not sign the FY2009 spending bills? That kind of puts the onus for that spending squarly in the Democrats hands, including the Democrat president that signed it, doesn't it?
I've also shown that at least four Bush vetoes were overridden by the Democrat Congress. Also shifting blame into their camp.
Let's see some data that backs up the Obama side of the argument, if you would...
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 4:59 PM
Spaniard,
Are you seriously arguing that a 40% increase in the cost of unskilled labour does not have an impact on unemployment? Particularly so given that the bulk of that increase fell at a time of economic decline?
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 5:01 PM
Spaniard. I am glad to see your argument that we are on the right course has evolved into an argument of who's to blame for being on the wrong track.
-- Posted by Old John on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 5:48 PM
I'd like to see something posted that doesn't have to do with Obama or a Democrat.
Life is rough.
-- Posted by FriendO on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 4:26 PM
So are you saying uncle?
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 6:26 PM
I have never witness such mean spirited and hateful comments about a President in my 60+ years of my life. I guess most of you folks agree with Rusty Limbaugh; that you wish that President Obama fails.
Lets call it as it truely is; During the 2008 election, I had several so call Christian come up to me and said... "are you really going to vote for that "*igger"?" My reply was; "No, I'm going to vote for the "white" man in him. The 2008 election year was the most disappointing time I had in these type of American people in my lifetime.
-- Posted by D49F11 on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 6:57 PM
Adidas, I hear you don't work and get government assistance. How can you pay taxes on welfare checks?
-- Posted by FriendO on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 7:02 PM
D49F11,
I take it you were out of the country during the eight years that President Bush was in office, if you've never heard such 'mean spirited and hateful comments' about a President.
I've heard the n-word used with regards to this President a few times, mostly from his 'defenders' who try to make the claim that they heard it 'implied' or 'stated' by one of his opponents. Most of the people I know of that don't like Mr. Obama hold that position because of his policies. By your post, I see that you could only pull yourself to vote for him because he is half white. Isn't that a case of the pot calling the kettle half-black? ;)
The post that started this thread is just a recounting of fiscal data related to the president's policies. Mr. _Regret_ has even been so kind as to provide the sources for those figures. Nothing hateful or racist about that.
Spaniard attempted to put the blame for the spending of FY2009 on President Bush (rather mean-spirited and hateful, if you ask me), but I provided factual data that shows clearly that President Bush did not sign the spending measures that led to the run-away spending of FY2009. If you'll notice, I put the blame on Nancy Pelosi, BTW. I've said numerous times that Mr. Obama is a symptom of what is wrong with our government, not the cause of it.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 7:41 PM
I have never witness such mean spirited and hateful comments about a President in my 60+ years of my life. I guess most of you folks agree with Rusty Limbaugh; that you wish that President Obama fails.
-- Posted by D49F11 on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 6:57 PM
You must have been absent in 2008 when your buddies on here where calling GW every name in the book. Well this is payback and I am eating it up.
Tyrone is what he is and that isn't a leader. You guys wanted to start the race war now you got it.
I tried to tell you guys he was an idiot but do you listen? So how is that Hope and Change going for ya?
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 10:00 PM
The post that started this thread is just a recounting of fiscal data related to the president's policies. Mr. _Regret_ has even been so kind as to provide the sources for those figures. Nothing hateful or racist about that.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 7:41 PM
You lost it in the very first line that started this post--
"...Due To Obama's Binge Spending."
Simply blaming any kind of 10 year projection of government expenditures on one President's "binge spending" is not only overly simplistic, but extremely naive. Budget projections are based on a whole series of assumptions, and I would guess that the OMB has a range of possible outcomes, and very probably, the one quoted is the worst case.
Nothing "hateful" about quoting only a worst case, but there are other solutions that could come about.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Sat, Oct 23, 2010, at 6:00 AM
really? Then post links to it and prove it wrong. You can't because the numbers don't lie.
-- Posted by Skeptic1 on Sun, Oct 24, 2010, at 12:57 PM
We will have a deficit and debt 200 years from now. That is what capitalism is about and free enterprise. We americans demand a higher standard of living than most other countries. Balance budget that is hard to do on the federal level because the States requesting federal funding, the natural disasters, hurricanes, tornados etc etc. So many say cut the deficit reduce the debt down size if we would do all of these the people would go nuts then, because no medicaid, medicare, ebt stamps, aid to the States and local governments, reduction in social security checks again we demand so much it is almost impossible to make a run at balancing the budget and paying off this huge national debt we have which in reality is out of reach. All politicians will tell us all they will do this and that with the debt but at the end of the day all they are doing is telling us what we want to hear and a vote.
-- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Sun, Oct 24, 2010, at 4:36 PM
Swamp,
Are we to believe that you believe in spending what you do not have and that is Ok?
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Oct 24, 2010, at 5:04 PM
Swampeastmissouri, My understanding of deficits comes from looking at them from a smaller more personal perspective.
Let's say I work for someone and operate a stump grinder for $9 per hour. There are plenty of stumps to grind and I am secure in my job, have good benefits and like grinding stumps.
I get to thinking if I had my own stump grinder I could be getting $50 to $200 each for the stumps I grind. So I eat beans and rice for a year or so and go to the bank and borrow $2,000 and with the money I saved, buy a $3,500 stump grinder and grind stumps for neighbors and friends on weekends.
Now that is a deficit I can understand. Eventually with the same tactic I end up with a stump grinding business of my own and hire several people. I pay off the debt or deficit.
On the other hand, if I go out and borrow an amount that would finance enough stump grinders, trucks and who knows what else to make some really big money now and extend the payment term beyond my lifetime and onto my great grandchildren, well that's how I see the federal deficit spending that is going on now.
Targeted deficit spending can build bridges and big stuff that we would never have if we waited to accumulate the tax money to pay for it up front, but a deficit passed down to our grand children without anything to show for it is not in our country's best interest, IMHO.
-- Posted by Old John on Sun, Oct 24, 2010, at 5:27 PM
Do we conclude instead of us grinding down the managable debt, the huge debt grinds us down?
-- Posted by voyager on Sun, Oct 24, 2010, at 6:00 PM
Voyager, Good way of putting it.
With my luck, I'd be grinding the stump that the skunk took a dump on.
-- Posted by Old John on Sun, Oct 24, 2010, at 6:11 PM
Bottom line is you cant borrow your way out of debt.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sun, Oct 24, 2010, at 7:57 PM
Regret,
Had an old guy in the business tell me that when I was just a newbie.
He said, God knows I tried and went broke. At the time he was trying to build himself back up and earn his self respect back.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Oct 24, 2010, at 10:30 PM
Then start grinding, Rick.
-- Posted by voyager on Mon, Oct 25, 2010, at 9:21 PM
Menu
$26.2 Trillion: Projected Federal Debt In 2020 Due To Obama's Binge Spending. (OMB, 7/23/10)
$13.6 Trillion: Current National Debt. (U.S. Treasury Department, Accessed 10/19/10)
$8.5 Trillion: Cumulative Deficits Caused By President Obama's Proposed Budget, FY2011-2020. (OMB, 7/23/10)
$3.9 Trillion: Total Cost Of The Democrats' Tax Hike To Taxpayers. (Joint Committee On Taxation, 8/6/10)
$3.0 Trillion: Amount Added To The National Debt Since Obama Took Office. (U.S. Treasury Department, Accessed 10/19/10)
$2.5 Trillion: True Cost Of ObamaCare Once Fully Implemented. (Sen. Max Baucus, Floor Remarks, 12/2/09)
$1.42 Trillion: Federal Budget Deficit For FY2009 -- Highest In U.S. History. (Congressional Budget Office, 10/7/10)
$1.29 Trillion: Federal Budget Deficit For FY2010 -- Second Highest In U.S. History. (Congressional Budget Office, 10/7/10)
$868.4 Billion: American Debt Held By China. (U.S. Treasury Department, Accessed 10/19/10)
$831 Billion: Net Interest Payment On Our National Debt In 2020 Due To Obama's Budget. (OMB, 7/23/10)
$814 Billion: Price Tag Of Obama's Failed Stimulus. (Bloomberg, 8/20/10)
$575 Billion: Amount Of Medicare Cuts In ObamaCare. (CMS Chief Actuary Richard S. Foster, Memo, 4/22/10)
$569.2 Billion: Amount Of Taxes In ObamaCare. (Letter to Speaker Nancy Pelosi, 3/18/10)
$10 Billion: The Cost Of The Teacher Union Bailout. (The Washington Post, 10/8/10)
$54 Million: Amount Of Stimulus Funds Spent On A Napa Valley Wine Train. (ABC News' "Good Morning America," 2/2/10)
41.8 Million: Number Of Americans Receiving Food Stamps. (Bloomberg, 10/5/10)
40 Million: Number Of Businesses That Will Be Burdened By The Onerous IRS 1099 Requirement. (The Washington Post, 8/29/10)
$18 Million: Cost Of The Stimulus Website Recovery.org. (ABC News' "The Note" Blog, 7/8/09)
14.8 Million: Unemployed Americans. (Bureau of Labor Statistics, 10/8/10)
9.5 Million: Americans Working Part-Time For Economic Reasons. (Bureau of Labor Statistics, 10/8/10)
6.1 Million: Americans Unemployed For Longer Than 27 Weeks. (Bureau of Labor Statistics, 10/8/10)
5.4 Million: Number Of Properties Receiving Foreclosure Filings Since Obama Took Office. (RealtyTrac, Accessed 10/19/10)
3.8 Million: Increase In the Number Of People Who Were In Poverty In 2009 Over 2008. (NPR, 9/16/10)
2.6 Million: Jobs Lost Since Stimulus Was Passed. (Bureau of Labor Statistics, 10/8/10)
2.3 Million: Private Sector Jobs Lost Since Stimulus Was Passed. (Bureau of Labor Statistics, 10/8/10)
1.2 Million: Americans That Have Given Up Looking For Work. (Bureau of Labor Statistics, 10/8/10)
964,900: Number Of Jobs That Could Be Lost Per Year Under Cap And Trade. (Tax Foundation, 3/09)
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